Until Linux comes with FULL DVD-ROM support, it will never become popular. Ran Ubuntu, and it couldn't even play DVD movies at all. Come with some DVD decoder. IT IS OPEN SOURCE. It should act like it.

lmao...

Dude...

Install a non-slipstreamed XP. Retail, even. Guess what? No DVD playback.

*shakes head*

Do they even bother to think before posting nowadays?

I have 4 computers here at home... does this mean I have to buy 4 copies of Vista for each computer?

No, just 1 copy of Vista for each computer (Total of 4), just like you would have for XP or Windows 95.

4 copies of Vista for each computer?

I don't even think MS is insane enough to make you buy 16 copies for 4 systems. :)

Just one for each computer...the way it's always been for most commercial products.

Ya'll think MS is alone in this licensing thing... which is strange, considering most commercial products out there carry similar restrictions. Sure, there are exceptions, but the exceptions go both ways.

Artios requires a dongle or parallel key, for instance. Sure, you think that's fine, it's a niche product, not everyone needs it, and those who do, know about it and pay for it. Why is an OS any different?

Because you *want* it to be?

The simple fact is that MS can choose to license their products in any way shape or form they want to. Just as you are free to not agree to those terms and do without.

...or damn near any other commercial software available today.

Doing OEM license's installs. What does this mean for me on my personal PC that i use to fix all/my clients? No prob,right?
Is a bad night,perhaps i should not have brought this up...
Roger

Vista, whats that? I switched to Apple and now I don't have anything to complain about anymore. Those of you who like to USE your computers either switch to Ubuntu or OSX. Those of you who like to fix things and complain a lot then stick with Microsoft.

Either way, it seems like you're still pretty good at complaining...

If you jumped to Apple then you just jumped from one big daddy to another. You're so at their whim it's scary. The funny thing is they've got all the fanboys like you believing otherwise.

As if Apple or Linux don't have problems. I use Xp at home and OSX at work. I have had more hang ups and freezes with OSX. Linux would be a great alternative if it were more user friendly.

Or those of who actually like to run applications stick with microsoft. A mac is a paerweight in my opinion. It cant run a single application that I use for my businesss.

So you don't use Photoshop? Or Microsoft Office? Or Corel Draw? Or Adobe Illustrator? Or any of the Macromedia products?

OS X is a lot more powerful and robust than some people give it credit for.

jimzim2714,
Stop wasting our time. If you have moved to Apple, or don't intend to use Vista, then don't comment on the story. We are not interested in your feeble recommendations, or finger pointing!!

As for the story... Good news if I interprete it correctly, as I would (will?) be one of a few % that will want to move the OS to possibly a number of hardware changes/upgrades. Certainly more than the original move once only EULA.
If MS hadn't clarified/updated the EULA for Vista, it would have been a major stop point from me possibly upgrading to Vista.

Agreed! Actually Apple/Mac users should be completely BANNED from using BetaNews. I've never met a Mac/Apple PC user who wasn't a little strange or weird... even freaky.

It does appear to be good news though... but I wonder how well the Mandatory Activation will work. I upgrade modify my hardware often, M/B CPU Video Card etc etc... according to MS, "Activation associates the use of the software with a specific device" does this mean that re-activation has to be done? First time activation is done automatically via Internet connection but I'm sure after a hardware change or Re-install after a hardware change automatic Activation will fail.. as the hardware/key combination are different... resulting in MS thinking your OS is a copy or license breach.... does this end-up with having to call MS for manual activation and problem resolution??? If so its Corporate Edition or Hack/Workaround for me. Hope MS can get it right or they their anti-piracy campaign will result in exactly the opposite effect.

You couldn't keep your Windows computer in working condition?

Microsoft is evil - we all know it.

But because of their monopolistic bundling crap, we are stuck with 'em. So it's good to be able to actually USE what you end up paying for and move it from machine to machine as you get rid of the old and get into the new.

Shut up.

Errr- yeah - that goes over well.

The point is - Microsoft is in a position to FORCE things on folks. And they abuse that like crazy, hence the lawsuits, the rulings against them, etc.

They became rich in part because of their monopolistic behavior. How can anyone deny that?

"They became rich in part because of their monopolistic behavior. How can anyone deny that?"

That's what I'm saying but people deny it everyday.

wow....who knew someone could make an argument with two syllables.

Because denying something is so much easier than fixing it...
Cynical, moi?

Why is it that as soon as a some one starts making money people start calling words to them. I am no Microsoft fan, but I would not call them evil. I use both XP and Ubuntu but Ubuntu hell till date I have not been able to make a DVD+R work under Ubuntu, but same comp as soon as I install XP, runs smooth with DVD+R.

By the way i don't think people are stuck with Microsoft because of bundling crap but because things work with Microsoft OS and not with other OS.

By the way Microsoft people are here for business and not charity . I am damn sure, if any one of us are going for business we would also try to do what gets the most out of what we invest :)

Till there is some other OS which is as smooth as Wndows today, where I don'T have to get into code/compiling for anything to work ... I dont think we have a choice right ?

Coming back to topic moving the OS from machine to machine as you move I guess is a must. Vista would never sell even to computer manufacturers leave alone normal customers so I guess that had to come :)

Very well said and I agree with you completely. Any OS that works properly is a good OS whether Microsoft or not. Most who complain about software here have not a clue in how to make good software or a operating system as it is no easy task.

If anyone here can do better than Microsoft and create a software without mistakes, please do speak up as I am sure Microsoft would like to hear from you.

It is very easy to complain, but if your going to do so, back it up with facts and start walking your talk!

It is too late for some of us - the trust has been broken. Now that I know Microsoft's true feelings and intentions I, for one, have become an advocate for linux to an extraordinary degree. The EULA fiasco was really a betrayal and it doesn't matter if they took it back. What contempt they display to their honest customers! They reserve whatever rights they want with each new patch or "service pack" - I feel that the current EULA is just a temporary marketing tool so as not to deep-six the launch of VISTA.

I have purchased legit copies of every single MS operating system and upgrade from DOS 3.x on. I purchased perhaps 11 copies of WindowsXP for various of my personal machines, not to mention the many client systems that I have installed XP on. I was one of those geeks that for years successfully advised people to give up Netware and VMS for NT-based technologies.

However, I will not be purchasing a copy of VISTA. XP is the end of the line. Also, I am agressively advising my customers to change to linux distros wherever possible. Further, I am advising my customers on upgrade paths to linux which DO NOT include SUSE. With this current "cooperation" with Novell's brand SUSE I see the beginnings of MS's attempt to find a way to neuter linux once and for all - like the Netscape, Lotus 123 or Wordperfect rapes only with a bit more hypocrisy.

Except for my web servers and intel-based Macs, all x86 machines within my control or influence are now running the Debian linux distro Ubuntu and aren't missing a beat. I am getting much higher perceived performance almost everywhere actually. I will be changing my web servers over to Debian very soon. The only personal MS system I have up and running is an X-Box 360 but I am going to be seriously looking at the PS3.

Microsoft - you really got my attention this time! Thanks for showing your true colors.

Hard to believe it took this long for ANYONE to realize that Microsoft has "broken trust"

They've been doing this crap since the days of DOS 5 and later, it seems. Perhaps even earlier.

Microsoft is now and has always been a scumbag company who cares much more about domination and profit than their customers.

Get a life! You Microsoft conspiracy theorist are nuts! Microsoft made a business decision based on public comment just like any other business would do. Microsoft is no different than any other big software company in doing this. You like Linux, great so do I. Ubuntu is great too. I use it as well as SimplyMepis, but you don't have to bash Microsoft just to make yourself feel better about switching to an inferior (for the average user) operating system. If you are going to bash Microsoft, bash all the others as well. Talking about Hypocrisy!

What a rock! What company hasn't "broken trust" at one time or another? Do you write your own material or just spew out what some other hack is saying? Since they are such a scumbag company, I trust that you are not the ultimate hypocrit and have moved to a different operating system like maybe the new linux distribution "SimplyMoronic 1.0".

Ask the former employees of Lotus Development Corporation about "nutty" conspiracy theories (or IBM in the days of OS/2) when it comes to Microsoft.

Remember the LIMS memory management standard (Lotus-Microsoft-Intel)? Microsoft started out the relationship with LDC just like they are doing with Novell.

Guess you are too young to remember such stuff...

I remember those. You act like LIMS was the thing that brought down Lotus. That's nuts. It was several reasons, one of which was an inability to compete effectively which is the same reason Apple lost so much share from their heyday. As for OS/2, when it's broken why stick with it. You don't think IBM would have done the same thing if the roles would have been reversed? Your fooling yourself.

By the way, in your first post you say "the trust is broken", why wasn't it broken along time ago with Lotus and IBM. Be consistent. You tagged along with Microsoft because it suited you. Now, you want to go the Linux way, Great. Don't condemn Microsoft for doing the same thing you are doing. They dumped Lotus and IBM just like you are dumping them. There's no high road, but there is a lot of hypocrisy.

Very interesting to see you continally use the word "nuts" whenever criticism of MS is on tap. That is one of Steve B's favorite terms. Hmmm....

Yeah, placing more and more restrictions on the legit users while pirates continue to do as they please is what the public wants. Ok, if you say so.

It's there software! Don't you get the EULA? They can do what they want. You didn't buy the software when you purchased it, as paradoxical as that sounds. You only purchased a license to use the software. If you don't like it, stop whining and use something else. There are alternatives. Don't use that tired legit/pirate angle. You're just spouting off the same old hack arguments to bash Microsoft. There are always going to be pirates and Microsoft is trying to do something about it that's why there are restrictions.

If the shoe fits wear it.

"stop whining and use something else"
Too late, I'm already using something else. Microsoft is rather irrelevant to my computing needs these days. I still have to put up with their garbage though because everyone I know thinks they just have to have Microsoft.

As far as Microsoft's anti piracy efforts...They might as well be using a missile to swat a fly.

SO it's not Microsoft's garbage, it's everyone you knows garbage. Must be a smelly place.

You're right... Microsoft's stuff does give off a pungent tyrannical oder.

It's no use arguing with some types. They tell you they don't use so and so and bash it, but don't realize their action betrays their nature.

For example, I don't use another competing OS, but I don't ever care to bash it...why? Because most of us who are like that believe in the product. So we walk true and proud :)

We don't need to sink to their level, but it does sometimes help. Given the cirucumstance and to help them out, I'll provide a direction to the meaning of monopoly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

I am far from blind and will point out there are many who wish to think MS is a monopoly, but in this modern age, it no longer means what it should mean. MS competes with many competitors, which should shatter the notion of a monopoly. But those who will hate the succesful will find fault in it's dominance.

So let them "say" they use other products...meanwhile those other free products are not being widely accepted OVER Windows for reasons each individual has.

Vista and MS will ride above the wave of petty heel nippers, amused as we will be at their juvenile antics. Meanwhile MS will ironically support it's so called competition, as it has done often, many times before.

There are just hateful souls in the world, they just pick targets to vent at. Let's just amuse them.

In this free society of oddly misinterpetted monopolies, I will have XP on my modest Pentium 4, Media Center on my sexy ASUS laptop, and Vista on my home built power machine. And I might try out the many competing products...or just stay with the bizarro monopoly :)

Have fun champ.

Well good for you then. I am glad you have quit your immoral relationship with Microsoft and have moved on to greater loves. I am happy for you and wish you a happy computing life. May you never have any compatibility problems or operating system strife.

Have you ever wondered what the chances of them are having just, you know, ****ed up?

They damn well better let me move my OS to another computer.
Thats all we hear now, is restrictions restrictions restrictions with Microsoft. Nothing to help the end user, but everything to contol their PC monopoly.

Vista will basically keep the same licensing model as XP now. Only difference you can only use Vista Ultimate with Virtual Machines. Fine with me.

I'm glad it keeps the same basic licensing thing for Retail. I just hope they do it for OEM.

I remember way back in the Borland days. They basically said "Hey, this is like a book. Only one person can read it at a time and it can only exist in one place at a time."

I liked that. Simple, easy to understand.

Odd. I was under the impression that one could use Vista Business in a virtual machine.

I guess right now I'm kind of wondering what the OEM version will be like in terms of restrictions?

Those same Enthusiasts buy Voodoo or Alienware and will swap out parts all the time, so I hope the OEM version gets the same flexibility.

These terms might have worked in USA - not in Europe where these kind of terms were not accepted in courts. So, small wonder MS makes this move.

XP and all other MS system are already condemned to death (http://www.microsoft.com.../lifecycle/default.mspx).
Maybe they are putting all the eggs in the same basket.

It'll just get extended and extended like Win2000 did.

This is absolutely fantastic!

I'm still probably not going to get Vista until I'm forced to (when the stop all XP support and updates) but still, this is a very good reaction to the concerns of the community, no?

"I'm still probably not going to get Vista until I'm forced to (when the stop all XP support and updates)"

Ah Hah, from the looks windows 9x, they will stop support about 2 years before even the next version is released.

I'm with you though. I won't upgrade until i feel i have to. What makes me feel i have to? Well, I don't want to provide that info for MS to use against me (to make me update).

if we all refuse to buy games that require DX10
then DX10 will die!
I will never use Vista and DX10 will not be that great.... MS can not corner the gaming market with DX10! what is so good about DX10? nothing!

I think you'll find DX10 won't die since it allows even better access to the GPU for general programming not just games.

I personally would love greatly sped up video encoding software through use of the GPU.

hey guys. just to let you know, I used vista RC2 for a couple of weeks, and went back to XP. XP runs faster, has more options, etc. and in the end, i like to view my programs for the way they were meant to be seen, in classic view.. and vista is really all about aero. unless you cant keep your xp system secure with patches and a good anti-virus program, vista is worthless. vista cant even play the latest new game NFS Carbon. vista makes your HDD run a lot and it doesnt tell you what its doing (even with indexing off and windows defender off)..

and like i said most importantly XP still reacts faster over all than vista which vista has a sluggish feel when going around in program groups. and my rig scored a 4.8 which i think 5.0 is the fastest for vista.

A8N-SLI premium
AMD 3800+ x2
2GB DDR corsair
raid sata rapture hdd's
2 xfx 7800 gt sli-enabled

so the sluggish vista isnt because my system is slow..

anyways, if vista bothers you because of its licensing policy the maybe you need to relax because I do not think vista is worth this kind of stress.

the only real problem is with the games in the future using DX10. in the end, it might be a year from now, i will be forced to use vista just to play the games. now how fair is that m$?

XP is the os that can last a lifetime if they didnt make the DX10 proprietary. its really sad.

i think my score was 5.3

Vista is made for next gen, as all operating systems and computers evolve to just use more...the faster your pc, the smoother it goes.

I have a home built:
E6600 Conroe
2gb ram
300gb sata 3 hd
512mb ati x1800xtx

Runs flawless for me, as will it run all the more sweeter on newer next gen...quad cores.

That's funny because I'm running a slower system than you and my Vista runs fine. Im on a MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum, 2gb Corsair Ram, ATI x1600 and a couple 500gb Satas (non raid) and my system is just a quick as with XP, and I've loaded up Vista with a much Vista-y stuff out there. And this is with theme-support enabled, and you're running classic? It's VERY possible that you're missing a driver or something....I don't know what else to tell you.

hey nice rig. I need to ask though, don't you notice the slowness when browsing program groups? Go to start, all programs and go around getting into all the group items. I had to wait at average 3 seconds and sometimes 6 seconds to get into a program group like nero or ms office.. while XP is instant..

yes I was using aero though, that was my interest in vista was aero. i can admit that some applications loaded faster in vista because of its prefetching ability. it kind of impressed me that even after buring a DVD there was no delay in loading up IE.

I do a lot of downloading on usenet and in XP the way the memory is managed, after I download 2 gigs of stuff then 2 gig's of memory is sometimes purged depending on clients, especially torrent clients like azureus. right now im dling movies on newsbin and i went to load IE and had to wait 3 seconds. but in vista always prefetching i only wait 1 second or less it seems.

just the annoying part is the program groups i access them all the time and waiting 5 seconds at times for the mouse to highlight it blue and then click to open is really annoying..

the main thing that made me go back to xp was the fact Need For Speed Carbon will not run on vista, unbelievable.. shame on EA, but I choose to play a good game than keep using vista

with your rig you must play games too, have you tried NFS Carbon? I can only play on high details because on max details I get like 10 fps and that sucks. anyways you wont beable to play it on vista, but they have a demo you can DL if you want to try it

Hopefully but doubtfully they will make Vista so if you buy a prebuilt system you can trancfer Vista if you decide to upgrade it.

With XP isn't it you can change everything but the motherboard or CPU without having to buy the retail version.

Microsoft still doubles their money (# of licenses), but at least I can plan to build a new computer sooner than I expected. Tired of being yanked around though — this whole BS scene never had to happen; Linux calls....

Bugmenot: I think Exxon or one of those Oil companies are most profitable in history, even more than Microsoft and there is hardly any piracy mostly highway robery :)

How can gas cost $3.50 one month and $2.00 right before the election. Fishy.. but I digress.

you seen it here folks. b****ing does pay off.

one thing to note, you still can't dual boot the 32 and 64 bit on the same box from what I see. that may annoy some people, especially since it be cool to test out the 64 bit one while going full steam with the 32 bit.

*applause*

Now I don't have to hate Microsoft anymore.

*waits for MS haters to flame*

Aww, c'mon. There's so many more good reasons to hate them. ;)

Yeap. Like hating them for running the most profitable company in the history of mankind.

I'm not going to flame you but Microsoft can burn in hades for all I care. I'm tired of being yanked around by a bunch of morons that have their heads so far up their collective posteriors that they can't see the light of day.

Wow, like bats to a light they come. lol. *Looks around for fox...*

Anyway, I'm still a little iffy about this drm (the whole video/audio protection) stuff coming in Vista, alas, I'll be buying it anyway since I can't stand running anything older than the newest thing out, when it comes to Windows anyway. So farI really like it, and I'm just hoping it runs as well as it runs right now...lol. You know how things have a way of slapping you in the face with the final version (sometimes).

I'm sorry for this in advance, but isn't that Apple that you're talking about?

Damn, you're easy!

In my case it isn't. I've never owned anything from Apple.

No that would be (the) Google wouldn't it?

I have already found something else to do with the money I had set aside for Vista when news of not being able to move it to a new computer more than once broke so Microsoft already lost me as a upgrade customer for both Vista and Office.

I'll just wait till I buy a new computer in two or three years.

For a month or so, I thought they'd lost their minds.

Same here. I'm glad they changed their collective mind.

yeah same here, i was angry about that. With this change everything should be at least ok for everybody.

"collective mind"

Just trying to draw a Borg reference, eh? ;o)

Sadly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

Ya know...

The Borg.

"Grab yer torch and pitchforks!"

Oh, wait...that's Ogre....

Huh...

well its a start.
Well i agree with ms in that people want more features they will need to get a higher version of windows, why should people who pay for the business edition get no advantage over home users.

No advantage?

Hmmm...

Home Premium cannot connect to an AD domain server.

They're not in the same ballpark. Why would the business edition need MCE capabilities? Why would Home Edition need to connect to an AD server?

Sure, there may be exceptions, and for those few exceptions....there's Vista Ultimate.

as a small business admin, I find that Remote Desktop Connection is a necessity over having Media Center (no real use for Media Center at work)

"Why would the business edition need MCE capabilities?"

Not everyone spends every waking moment at work actually working. As long as the computer you're using has a sound card and a CD-ROM drive you can use Media Center as a stress reliever to listen to music so you will be much more productive when you get back to working.

*laughs*

Right.

Of course, in the real world, it will annoy co-workers and bring productivity to a screeching halt... Sorry, when you're at work, you're there to work, not to watch movies and listen to Franz Ferdinand.

RDP is the shizz, man. Any idea if they've opened that up at all? Do we still need a server OS to support 2 or more concurrent RDP connections?

RDP is the shizz, man.

Heck yeah.

My guess would be you still need server for concurrent RDP connections. Don't know for sure though...

Yeay, bloggers and scrutinizers. Reall incredible how Microsoft still views everyone as stupid.

Now only the family license is left:
Should allow to install the same license on up to three systems per household.

To get the License you should be required to proof you are married and have kids.

Wow.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost retailers to verify that info?

Nevah.

Gonna.

Happen.

Sorry, man. The bubble had to be burst.

Don't be a tool.. he was being sarcastic

Thanks for defending me, but i was was serious. d'oh

Better if the activations just had to come from the same IP address. No doubt even that would present some difficulties, but some kind of family license is the only way I would buy Vista. I have way too many computers to put out cash on Vista for all of them.

lmao...

Genius.

Good

See PC_Tool finally MS wised up. Now it makes sense again to buy a retail.

Depends on your situation.

"PC and hardware enthusiasts" should be using the Action Pack anyway. No sense in paying close to $400 for a retail license of Ultimate when you can pay $400 for *several* retail licenses of Ultimate...and just about every other product MS sells.

I guess a sliver of sanity is better than nothing.

Well... It's a start.