Guess I won't upgrade to Vista -- will stay w/ XP Pro. I have several computers -- and if one dies (as they have in the past) I won't buy another copy of the OS in order to bring it (or my back-up) back to life.

Wow $400.00 for software you can't even install on a new computer, what will Microsoft do for its customers next?
I guess I'm suppose to buy a new copy of every game and other program I own to.

I understand not being able to transfer a OEM version, but by doing this with the retail version Microsoft has made me cancel plans to buy Vista when it comes out and just wait till i get a new computer in a few years. Was going to buy the Vista Ultimate Edition and MS Office package Amazon was offering but won't get ether one now.

Its times like these that makes me glad I didn't install the beta of Vista either.

Friggin MS... Well, thanks at least for making up my mind. A pirated version or nothing. The headaches of using a pirated version don't seem any bigger than using a legit one now.

I mean, where do they get off? I feel guilty if using shady software for the most part, but this would make me feel great. The effort to break their protection schemes are gonna be HUGE.

If this is true, then it is indeed a big mistake and will give me pause on buying Vista when it is released. First of all, how is 'new machine' defined? I don't buy dells or gateways, I build my own systems; I'm now worried that I'll slap in a few new components, or maybe switch my board and cpu at some point and render Vista....what? Unusable? Locked?
If they're going to do this then I recommend they make it WAY cheaper for 1, or subscription based like an antivirus/firewall. I don't know what path they could possibly take, but I will not be buying an OS that will not work on a machine after I change hardware or that I can't put on a new machine that *I* own. For that I rather buy an Intelmac and struggle with obscure software on OSX.

I'd rather get a cracked version of OS X to install on the computer that I invested a lot of money into already.

i smell class action.

This is just going to make me pirate the os cuz there is no way in hell im buying another copy the next time i change the mobo.

can anyone verify that they actually mean that you wont be allowed to use it or that it will force you to call them and have the activation revalidated. There's a big difference there.

This is nothing more than greed on the part of MS. It is enough of a hassle everytime you change something in your computer and need to call India for permission to activate. Now they want you to go out and buy another license. If that is NOT greed, then please explain to me further.....

If you have internet connection, activation is as easy as clicking a button.

I doubt many of us would feel the impact of the newly imposed limitation on Vista. But yeah, it is lame, nevertheless.

It's not always easy and two things will make it more difficult: more limitations and extremely bad tech support.

I almost fell out of my chair...
I was laughing so hard………
Who needs Vista?
I would not use it if they gave it away for free!
I will stay with my retail XP thank you…
Someone needs to tell me why I need Vista!
I played with Vista RC2 and it is a bad joke!

RC2 is a big blunder indeed. They admitted that RC2's got issues. Was taken offline few days ago.

I will need Vista for DirectX 10 games.
I will need Vista for much better security.
I will need Vista for the tons of other little enhancements. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/...Vista#Core_technologies

You know, DirectX 10 is the stinkbait they're holding out for gamers. Watch out for that hook. I'd rather have a stable system and forgo just a little eye-candy.

This is NOT the solution to piracy, and may even be a deal-breaker for me. There are other, better solutions. What happens when I decide to upgrade my computer? Am I expected to shell out another $400 if I spend $200-$400 to upgrade my system?
If they go this route I may just stick with XP, wait until I need new hardware then switch to a Mac.

About piracy. This decision will actually ENCOURAGE piracy. Frustrated consumers might decide to crack a version of Vista rather than purchasing the product like they would have.

No, it may not affect sales in the short term but it's a powerful incentive to finally blow of Microsoft forever.

This is just WRONG!!

*If Microsoft got its act together they could modify Vista to use CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check's) like they use for e-mail. The computer could scan the hard drive for deviations down to a single bit change. This eliminates piracy, viruses and provide the ability to rebuild the entire operating system from just a few lines of code.
Novel ideas like this are what Microsoft should be striving for.

As lame as this move is by Microsoft, I have a feeling that no matter what people say, they are going to cave and probably not do a darn thing to combat this.

It's the nature of people. They whine and complain, but when it comes to actually getting off their tails and taking a stand, few actually follow through.

Linux has been the toast of the town before, yet the number of people actually moving to it is minor. Why? "It's too inconvenient to change". Sure. Why be bothered to invest a little time and energy to teach Microsoft a lesson? It's just too much of a hassle, they will say.

I sure would like to see Steve Jobs free up OS X so it can be installed on ANY standard PC hardware. I think that may be one of the few chances anyone has of actually sending a message that Microsoft may listen to.

My personal opinion for the Operating System should be that as long as I remove it from one machine, I'm free to move it to whichever machine I choose to. After all, I did pay for the thing, and it should be my right to have that ONE SINGLE COPY installed wherever I need it to be installed. A single user license should not be allowed to be installed on more than one machine at a time. I totally agree. But to tell me I can't move it to another machine? That's just flat out silly.

This is great - I can just see someone re-installing on the same machine and needing to buy a new copy of Vista. Brilliant!

Think it won't happen? I've activated XP Home 4 times on the same machine in one day due to installing new drivers (no, not changing hardware) and having problems with various software programs. I highly doubt my clients would stand for paying for an extra couple of copies of Vista because re-installation was necessary.

Got lawsuit?

I believe you got it wrong.

Reinstalling on same hardware is allowed. The restriction applies to reinstalling on NEW machine (eg. when you change to a new PC).

Templar you dont understand. He is saying his XP install believed he had enough new hardware to warrant an activation. If this were a VISTA installastion, according to the new EULA, He would have been only able to reactivate 1 of 4 times he reactivated.

Reinstalling on the 'same hardware' has many shades of grey. We have no idea how many pieces of hardware it takes to have Vista 'think' that it's on a new machine. For instance, I own XP Pro (legally), and I had to change the board and cpu of my machine and afterwards XP had to be activated again. That was as easy as a phonecall. But if MS doesn't allow this for Vista, then we don't know what will happen in this same case. I've also known situations where mucked up installations could easily cause multiple phonecalls to MS for activation.

Therein lies the problem.

Exactly. THAT's the problem, plus the fact that if you have to get support, you are in deep stuff. Microsoft's tech support has gone way down just like the rest of the industry. Vista is going to be a lot more fun to watch from the valley below.

I love computers and build a brand new computer every year. The fact the os has to be an added cost for each and every time says I need to just buy oem I guess. The only benefit to buying retail boxed was for that ability to transfer. Retail software with xp provides their phone support and the ability to transfer to a new computer with a phone call. Now there is no reason.

The idea of activation was leading up to this we all had to realize that. Microsoft is a greedy hungry beast. They want money and are becoming more and more unethical about getting it. What is the reason for this other then to screw us, the consumer who legitimately paid for a license. Simple, they want you to pay for a new license each and every time you upgrade your computer enough that it could be considered a new one.

Ok imagine this, you went out and bought yourself that new video card, but then your power supply friend your motherboard. While you were at it you bought a new hard drive. Already your talking lets say 400 dollars for basic medicore computer components. You get them all installed and power on your system. You pop in the vista disc all excited. Install completes, you try to activate. Nope won't take it. You call microsoft, and some lady in an indian accent answers, sorry sir you already activated this copy of windows and it can't be transferred, would you like to buy a new key for 200 dollars?

What a slap in the face.

So this is a perfect opportunity for people to search out alternatives. The big selling point will be no activation. As well as it doesn't cost hundreds of dollars, with more if you upgrade your computer.

So while microsoft is using piracy as an excuse to do this, they are also creating new reason for people to pirate. Who wants to buy a new copy of vista each time they upgrade their computer, I mean one freebee?

There will be corporate versions of vista out there that doesn't require activation. So I have no doubt there will be some version of vista that is piratable.

The only benefit to buying retail boxed was for that ability to transfer. Retail software with xp provides their phone support and the ability to transfer to a new computer with a phone call. Now there is no reason.

Exactly. I agree 100%. This is ludicrous.

There will be corporate versions of vista out there that doesn't require activation. So I have no doubt there will be some version of vista that is piratable.

Built in WGA will kill that. Vista will be incredibly hard to pirate and will be pretty useless when it is pirated (No updates). Best to stick with XP.

Idiotic.

Give it about a week with the phone people being swamped by people upgrading hardware or switching stuff around between towers (something I do frequently) and they will see that their license is a miserable failure.

I do like the USB stick idea mentioned below, and it has to be doable, USB drives are dirt cheap now, and they'd only need an extremely small capacity to do that, and every PC that can run Vista has a USB drive..

Keep in mind the usb stick dongle like an encryption key would suck. What do you do if it goes out on you like usb drives do all the time? Imagine having a very expensive money making machine with all your business critical data on it. Now imagine it being acessable only through a microsoft dongle key. Now imagine that key going out, and is inoperative. You just lost access to your computer and no doubt your drive would be encrypted. So, your screwed, start from scratch unless of course you have a mirrored drive that copies everything to a non microsoft encrypted hard drive.

So yeah not a good idea. Microsoft makes billions of dollars a year and they spend it to make it difficult for piracy so they can attempt to make more. it's like they are milking the cow and now giving it steroids. The problem is the steroids are bad and will start making the customers sick. So they will start leaving. Good job.

They can alter the licience as much as they want, enforcing it is another matter. I upgrade my PC all the time, and cant see this really going ahead without a massive backlash. MS will backdown, they will have to LOL

so...
what are the benefits of downgrading to Vista?

so you have to buy newer hardware with more expensive components, and well, in this case, with another Vista pre-installed, I guess.

Or you can buy that new hardware and enjoy the tremendous speed of XP!

How should i spell LAME!!!!1111ONEONEONE

If i buy their OS i expect i'll be able to install it as often as want to, even if that's every day.

It's Microsoft's way of forcing people to buy software. Every time you want to upgrade hardware you will have to buy a new license. Most of us have no real need to upgrade beyond XP. For years they have been dropping support to previous editions to garner sales of the "new" OS. They have made up my mind. I'll stick to XP as long as it meets my needs and then I'll switch to something else. Can anyone say GREEDY?

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Windows Vista sucks more than XP HAHAHA

Could the admin please delete the above post by GCoder?

It spoils the page layout.

Ya know...I was really looking forward to Vista. I even built a new dual core computer. Alas this is the proverbial straw. Since I put this money into this new system I don't believe I'll be getting a Mac for some time now so it looks like Linux for me.

I agree, this is a kind of last straw. I may not switch to Linux but I will definitely not upgrade any time soon now. I can't wait to see how this all falls out. Something has to give. This is draconian.

XP works for me. I can't see any need for a new OS in the next six to twelve months, possibly longer.

Now that's just dumb.

I've known about this for weeks, maybe even months :p...as I'm sure some others. It's just the closer and closer we get to store shelves the more anxious I am over this fact.

Man I hope they change it somehow...either by what I suggested way down there or like what iceykoyla said.

Funny thing is, this simple little change just lost them an enormous amount of users/supporters.

I can't defend them anymore. This is too just about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. If you buy the Full Retail version, you should be able to install it on any number of computers (as long as it's only installed on one at a time). That was the main benefit of the Full Retail version.

...now it's just a more expensive OEM version.

Stupid.

I'll keep my action-pack, but I'll not be recommending Vista to anyone any longer.

You bring an interesting point to mind. Does Microsoft have any idea how many people look to pc enthusiasts, gamers, admins, and IT workers for advice on things like upgrading an OS. I'm sure you can influence the buying choices of friends and acquaintances, as can many readers here. I have several friends who won't even look at a new OS unless I recommend it (and install it) and I can't tell any of them that they should buy Vista. Do they really think a slick ad campaign is going to overcome word-of-mouth.

Just like everything else people are stealing, give it a reasonable price and more people will buy it instead of steal it. I don't plan on moving to vista, when it comes time for me to upgrade os'es I'm switching to linux.

I'm sure you will. And when you come back to Windows because you A. cant figure it out, B. Cant get the software or games you use to work with linux and C. find yourself patching it daily with 40+ updates per day, I will be the one here saying "I told you so"

Microsoft Guys are some crazy...I think I'll switch to a Mac

I already did - you won't go back....it's great!

I have both and I use the Mac more and more all the time. Heck, I'm thinkin' a nice quad G5 with Mac OSX and XP for gaming might be nice.

So if I change out my video card and format my machine, Vista won't work? Microsoft needs to explain this further or if anyone has a link to a more in depth article, please post.

What's next? Windows Vista Dongle?

I'm just waiting for the day man.

I'm guessing this means I can't install both 32-bit and 64-bit version on the same computer on different partitions? Or can I? Maybe they should give out USB keys with a chip that unlocks the OS or something. It could be built into laptops and desktops from computer builders so that they can't transfer to another computer. They can tie the key to the product ID. That way it can't be used on more than 1 computer at any time. If they want they can buy additional USB keys.

Don't give them any more ideas. Now imagine if the chip fails or goes out. yeah that would be the ultimate anti pirate method but talk about pain in the ass.

I almost feel sorry for you guys that try to stay legit.

Limit it to 25. That is when piracy is addressed. A limit of one targets a consumer.

I agree. Although, I wouldn't say 25. I'd put it more at 5. How many users are going to have more than 5 computers within the OS's lifetime that don't already come with the OS pre-installed? Extremely few I would imagine. I could be wrong, though. It wouldn't be the first time.

Sure - 5, 8, 12, 4, whatever. The point is that a normal consumer will own multiple machines with one OS. I know I've owned 3 boxes with the same XP. That's not a bad thing. XP has been my OS of choice while manufacturing has gotten a lot better.

I think hardware manufacturers REALLY need to see this as a potential problem, and a reason why consumers might not buy their hardware. It would deter me.

If they believe this is going to reduce piracy, they are sadly mistaken.

Pretty stupid on Microsofts part. As it was, Vista was a bit of a hard sell for an upgrade. XP just works for the majority of users out there, and many of Vista's changes are under the hood. The people that would be most inclined to upgrade (the enthusiasts) are getting screwed by this new policy.

And it's ironic if this is put in there to STOP piracy, as additionaly limits are only going to encourage it. The MPAA is even starting to see that.

Myself, I won't buy any license that restricts me from moving my license along with my computer upgrades. When my computer gets its own job and pays for its own license, then it can own my license. Till then, I won't be buying a new one every motherboard upgrade. I'll just stick with XP till it dies and/or move to Linux.

Their mistake is failing to consider that the licensing for the pirated versions are much more relaxed. You can install them as many times and on as many machines as you want. So they are just hurting the honest consumers here, and probably driving even more of them to run pirated copies.

Yeah pirated copies completely strip the need for licensing. Hell, they take off the need to enter a key.

here you go. i own a XP licence but i still prefer to install twicked pirated versions on my machine just for not entering any numbers. pisses the hell out of me. i'm sure it is still not perfectly legal from MS stand point, but in my opinion i'm good - i OWN a licence...

I got mine from my school with no activation. Unfortunately, Microsoft ended that program.

I had a feeling sense they started this with windows XP they be doing somthing like this someday. makes me wonder i wonder how strict the hardware changes are with Vista now?

My question is, "what is a new computer"? If i replace the motherboard? If i replace the hard disk vista is on? What is it.

I would have like to have a completely different License then what MS offers. I want a personal License that allows me to run Vista on what ever system i like. The limitation of such a license would be that my windows vista can only run on one system at a time never on two.

Probably the same changes that cause you to re-activate Windows XP today. I changed a sound card once and it caused me to re-activate.

Thats crazy. I do things like that every second day.

Once I put in a new video card, and a new harddrive, and it asked me to re-activate.

If I format my hard drive and reinstall Windows XP Professional SP 2 on the exact same hardware it gives me a message stating I have to contact Microsoft by phone to reactivate Windows every single time. Since I am constantly testing different Linux distributions and different Unix versions I reinstall Windows XP quite frequently on my computer.

Obvious I know, but why not use one of those internal removable drive carriers?

Unplug XP, plug in a blank drive to test Linux.

"it has been questioned by some of the company's biggest supporters."

yup...being one of them this is something on my mind all the time. The scary thing is if you install on a "default" set up, and start testing your system for overclocking...you can alter it enough that windows thinks it's on another computer.

They need to rework this somehow, not sure how. Maybe just go ahead and provide us with NAND drives with the OS embedded. At $400 with an OS on a 16BG NAND drive, I'd buy without blinking. Of course, then, I'd hope to be able to move my drive around when I need to upgrade.

Very touchy this thing.