Yea, big deal. They are'nt stupid...(Bill Gates and friends), All the smut users will find other chat clients, or more like use their other ones more. Any Chronic Pedo sure as heck is'nt just using MSN Chat. MS has deep pockets, they are probably trying to limit their liability and make another bundle of dough off yet another MS user base. Maybe Bill needs a olympic sized pool complete with diving platforms under his house! That would cost a few bux.

Right on! Microsoft just LOVES to disguise their business efforts in a shroud of righteousness but it is merely a ruse to hide their canniving, money-hungry ways. The issue of Internet weirdos is something of international scope and HUGE proportions that even the Goliath of a company, Microsoft, cannot handle single-handedly.

Honestly, the smart folks use the lesser-known chat services to get their dirty work done, whether it is pirating, pedo fun, or whatever tickles the proverbial pickle. This is nothing new: the Internet, like the real world, has it's ugly underbelly and you just can't flip some switches and think it'll all disappear. Chat programs are easy to write and folks can easily distribute free chat software and bring in all sorts of strange visitors. If safety and moderation of chat is a concern, then have moderated chats and VERY specific TOS agreements; otherwise, it's a free-for-all out there.

Good job showing us your greed again, Microsoft.. You just lost a bunch of users! Not that I'm a pedo or anything... Just don't like all this pretentious BS that M$ pulls! =oP

MSN chat sucks, has always sucked and always will suck. I am glad they will be charging for it now so that the people who are not stupid enough to actually pay for this crap will switch over to yahoo.

Im Returning to Talkcity For chat... Had some Great times in there... It has grown quite a bit since it reopened and offers alot also... Getting more options daily...

TalkCity, eh? Hmmmm... Sounds worth looking into. I pretty much use my "Yogizilla" namesake everywhere - especially when at play - so you should look me up sometime... I may sign up this week. I've tried other services but it's usually more of the same thing over and over again. So much for innovation... Thanks for the info, bub. 8)

I agree that the loss of privacy for chat users will be hard for some to handle. It will be hard for me to handle. But I don't do anything illegal in chat rooms (just a little off-color), so I don't suppose it will be a big deal if some MSN staff member knows I pick up guys online...

LOLz.. Nothing wrong with picking up people online. I think the main issue is circumventing MALICIOUS activity. The key thing is for them to develop mechanisms to deter and perhaps even completely block people from getting into areas that they are not supposed to be in; then again, everyone loves the forbidden doughnut! =oP~~

Privacy, as we know it, is really going to heck. I'm pretty sure a chat service will soon appear that will have servers geared towards specific audiences, be moderated accordingly, and not rape our rights as human beings that require freedom, privacy, and the ability to enjoy ourselves as we deem fit in an alternative world such as cyberspace.. I am quite open-minded and I feel that people should do as they feel so long as they are not breaking any set rules or inconveniencing anyone else (i.e. spamming chat rooms, setting up annoying bots, etc.)... A clear and concise TOS can cover this end, me thinks; that coupled with responsive admins and channel ops. 8)

Hey Maggie, how are YOU doing? ::wink-wink:: Hehehe.. Sorry.. I couldn't resist! Anywho, as I said before, there are many chat alternatives out there. It's not particularly difficult to find my chat info, at least.. I welcome all to stalk me! =oP

I would not be surprissed if in some countries they could become liable to a certain extent for activities within their chat rooms

they are entitled to. Surely it's not surprise to some of you folks that MS is a business, and businesses provide goods and services to people while also making a profit. Do you folks really believe other people are going to spend their money just to give you free stuff for the rest of your lives? It's called a "rude awakening" if that's what you believe.

If you don't like paying for it, don't use it. It's that simple.

Money speaks louder than whining any day.

VES

about time

for sure protect children, but thats not the reason for the closure of the chat rooms, they simply want to make money out of it, just like thier msn mobile service, they are simply not telling the full truth of why they are closing the chat services

martyn

You apparently didn't read comments by MS's spokespeople. This was one of the reasons they cited - to make the service [more] profitable.

It's one thing for Microsoft to turn a free service into a paid one, but to pretend it's being done primarily for the purpose of security is dishonest. This is nothing more than just another money grab to catch stupid people.

Although Microsoft is going to get majorly flamed for this move, I think it's good. If parents want to ensure their kids are chatting in a wholesome environment, they can set them on Microsofts chat network. Microsoft also has a reputation that they want to keep as clean as possible, and this will help them there. There are plenty of other options if you want an open chat environment (I personally think microsoft's sucks anyways), such as IRC, Yahoo, or AIM.

In my opinion Microsoft chat is a family oriented chat area. I quit going to general chat rooms a long time ago because of the hacking and the ugly. I have my own chat room that is for my family and no one even notices it is there except those who belong. I would hate to lose that because of the general chat rooms but if that happens, so be it. You think Microsoft sucks???? Tell me, when something goes wrong with your computer who takes care of it? Nothing is perfect but give it a break. Microsoft comes under the gun too often. When we get viruses directed at the microsoft programs and hackers don't even care they are hitting everyone who has microsoft, you have to take a look at who is bashing the company that has changed the world.

Is it really better with the butterfly??? I think Microsoft is raping it's customers

"I think Microsoft is raping it's customers"

Typical Microsoft-hater !

First altruistic thing Microsoft has done in a
long time (maybe the first altruistic thing Microsoft
has ~ever~ done), and this guy says: "I think Microsoft
is raping it's customers".

Sheesh !

The DataRat

I agree Time to cut off the perverts!

"I agree Time to cut off the perverts!"

Quite so !

At last someone with some sense.

Sadly, one of the best ways to circumvent the scum
is to charge for the service.

El Raton de los Datos

To think that Microsoft is actually doing it primarily for security reasons is silly when, really, there are other ways to accomplish that means. Who's to say that the offenders do not have cash to subscribe to such services? These are the same guys that are probably subscribed to several adult sites and frequently visit the "wholesome" shops of that nature.

The Internet is a melting pot of culture and varying schools of thought and, as so, Internet Chat is the culmination of such rich and diverse backgrounds; to think that charging for a service will make things more secure, in an of itself, is ridiculous. If I charge a thug an expensive fee to enter my night club, does that make him any less likely to shoot up people in the place? No... Checking him for weapons, however, may be the better route; that way, you don't have to keep an eye on suspicious people and infringe upon their privacy. ;o)

Honestly, tons of people hook up online; I've done it many times and have had many meaningful relationships and flings in that manner... I just know that there are right ways to go about things and wrong ways to go about things; in the end, I don't try to offend anyone.. Education is the key, not slapping people on the hands and hoping they won't rebel. ::rolling of the eyes::

This isn't the beginning of what Microsoft has taken away and it's nowhere near the end. They began beta testing MSN Communities mid 1999 I believe it was and they started taking things away in MSN Communities around November 2001 and they have continued to take the free things away and charge for them. People who know and have dealt with MSN Communities, which is now called MSN Groups, are sitting back watching and waiting to see what free service is taken away next. The smart ones leave MSN Groups and go the the real world of the www. In 2001 Microsoft took away the 30mb passports to anyone who's passport was not above the 3mb which is now the limit. They also enforced the page size of a custom page, which the limit on a page quite often is very limiting considering the lengthy urls you need to add graphics to your MSN custom page. They fouled an upgrade and created a complete disaster for managers of groups. They did not even give proper support in correcting the errors they created with such a disasterous upgrade. Instead users of the system had to try and figure out how to fix each disaster that Microsoft created. Participate.com who manage MSN Groups dropped out of the management of the support site they were supposed to run to help the MSN Users in 2001. Recently they took away the free calendars that never worked properly in the first place and are charging for their usage. The fact that they are doing this with chat, doesn't surprise me in the least little bit. Slowly but surely MSN Groups is going to become a subscription service. What people have put years of work into will have to make a choice, move out to the real www and create real sites without the limits MSN is giving with their mickey mouse custom pages, or pay for a service that does not function properly in the first place. It's quite obvious that Microsoft does not care about MSN Groups when they allow abuse, stalking, harassment to run rampant within the Groups.

"Recently they took away the free calendars
that never worked properly in the first place
and are charging for their usage"

Then it shouldn't bother you that they took them
away, right ?

The DataRat

ok i am not in the chatrooms alot i just go there just too waste time here is what is getting me they say they are doing this because of the children ok fine thats good bur what will paying fo it cause. i will tell you it will just stir up abunch of poooh the only real reason they are doing it is because they are not bringing in a profit from it! why cant they just use the credit card just too verify the age huh exactly heck you can do that to get porn so you should be able too do it with chat dont you think ??????????????????????????? i will tell you this i certainly wont pay !!! so msn is going too loose money huh

Nice spelling and punctuation...I wonder if you actually get any responses in chat rooms with that type of language...

MSN chatrooms are the worst, most boring, featureless chatrooms on the web. Charging for them just gives people a better excuse to use yahoo. MSN chat is moderated so if you say vagina too many times you get kicked off. Who the hell wants to chat in a Billified Nazi community when you have many other free...truely free alternatives. Hacking and security issues will rmain forever and as for the sick child molesters of this planet, unfortunately nothing will stop them aside from execution. But anyhow MSN chat sucks, has always sucked and will continue to do so. If your just into text theres always irc and if your into voice and video just get yahoo...its packed with people and features, yahoos software may suck a** but its only a damn chat client its not like its that important, just deal with it, use java or get yahelite. Its still better than MSN junk or waste of time AOL, excite etc.

Well that's amazing that MSN has come full circle. I remember back when all the msn chat communities where all on Microsoft’s servers. I'm sure many others remember that was one of the best things msn had going for itself when the first launched their site. I am also sure people will remember how msn abandoned the chat communities several years later. Microsoft explained that the chat communities where to big a drain on the infrastructure and believe it or not they had issues keeping hackers out and other security concerns. Funny isn't it...... I was a beta tester for Metro (ie MSN) ..... they had a good thing, but I don't buy the white knight role.

duno much bout the technical stuff, but why would msn want to chage ppl to chat, instead of just getting rid of the porn bots and script kiddies ?? does that mean it's beyond msn's capabilites ??

oh yes, the old "you've had it, are accustomed to it now we're going to make you pay for what you've had for free" routine.

I was part of a chat community (a host even) that attempted to do the same thing a little over 2 years ago. Some may remember it, TalkCity. Well, there was major chaos over having to pay to chat. That in turn lead to even more disruption in the rooms. Eventually, (within months) the entire community folded and TalkCity ceased to exist. Period!

It's been tried with other communities and failed miserably. MSN is making a huge mistake with their attempt to stifle trouble by making people pay for the right to free speech :(

Hmm Going back to the days where you had to use microsoft chat 1.0 or mIRC scripts and were on irc servers...they decided that the chat "wars" were too much..they couldn't handle this, and were affraid of being sued because someones computer was destroyed on their servers. So what do they do? they up and take their chats to web based beta chats...which didnt fly to well with all of their users. All the chats on the irc servers remained opend ran by US the users I myself Ran and owned 3 of them with other long time members and everything was fine until msn did away with the servers completely. They said moving would cut down on, hacks, spammers, ect... well anyone with half a brain knows back then as they do now that was the dumbest thing they did haha! and surely didnt help matters at all. Its so funny to go into one of their rooms and noone in there knows what chat1.0 is Nor do they know what irc is either. They made the mistake of allowing the bots and scripts avaliable to their servers again. Now we have to pay the price. This will always be a problem they cant control it, they couldnt then and cant now..But back then you didnt have all the porn spam like they have now, pretty funny if you ask me, cuz they screwed up and just now realizing it what 3-4 years later?..Well...In my eyes it will tank and crash...It has for talkcity, Mplayer, and other places that have tried this, why pay when you an use messengers for free, or yahoo , paltalk , firetalk, icq
ect....Msn doesnt even have voice options like other places do haha! One thing that does disturb me though is...If they decide to take away our chat rooms in the Groups section that will be devistating to alot of people, Including all of my members We are a Military support site for wives, family members Husbands and friends who truely do need this type of support...Msn is seeing nothing but dollar signs and nothing else. It's truely sad...Paying for free speech?
I don't think so!

MSN Chats did try to do something about the Porn Bots and also the Script Kiddies but alot of people bashed those who volunteered to help in them areas (Hosts, CB's and more) everyone whines about how unfair it is to endure them nusances well now you will pay to deal with them because them porn bots will be smart and figure out how to get thru and so will them script kiddies. and where will the Hosts and them people be because of all this out living a life finally because they are going to Pay to host.... Signed A MSN Host/CB/and more Swifty

What do you expect? If MSN is having that kinda problems on it's free service , it's no surprize that it's gonna drop it. They can't really enforce TOS/EUA issues on a free service and it isn't worth the effort for no return. So stop moaning about something you leeched off of and find something else.

An online community is about the people, not the company offering the service.

An online community is not just about the people. It is "offered" to the people by the Host. If I were "rich" and offered a free service, I'd be darn mad if they treated it the way all these online services are treated. I've been on Prodigy Classic where it all began. I've been on Aol chat where it got worse. There is a lack of respect for something that others offer when it comes into your own home. Wouldn't it be nice if no one had to go through "viruses", "spam", "popups", and all the trash that others throw on my internet that comes into my home? I'm not sure I like the idea of paying for a service and I'm not even sure I would, I don't know what the solution to the corruption on the internet is. Unfortunately, anyone who has money can buy a computer and pay to get on the internet. The internet is a place where people from all over the world come, and they bring good and bad with them. Because there aren't many restrictions here, they are "free" to violate the rights of others, attempt to pervert our children and cause terror in the hearts of naive people. But it has been a game that has been going on since the beginning of chat rooms and it isn't going to stop. The minute Microsoft or any big company says "ok, we want to control this", they are accused of all sorts of things, none of them good. There are no solutions. There are only those who put things out there and their decisions and our ability to live with it.

well .. I dunno. I pay for my Internet service and I get what I pay for . A nice overweight pipe ( 2.5 mbps/640 kbps ) to the Internet. I do not pay for my chats. If my chats go down due to the actions of some sick puppies I'll blame the sick puppies , not the chat hosts. Just because the host in question is Microsoft dosen't change that.

"making people pay for the right to free speech"

Right to free speech ?

You have a "right" to chat on Microsoft's networks ?

People and their inflated view of their "rights" !

The DataRat

"why would msn want to chage ppl to chat, instead of
just getting rid of the porn bots and script kiddies ??
does that mean it's beyond msn's capabilites ??"

No. More likely it means it's beyond Microsoft's intent
for a FREE chat network.

This will seem a strange and alien concept to you, but
there are limits as to what you can expect to get for
free.

The DataRat

The chat servers belong to MSN and they can do with them what they want. If they feel charging is the way to go, that's up to them. Are they kicking themselves in the butt, certainly. So, instead of closing down their chat rooms, they charge for them. When they don't at least break even, it's an excuse to shut them down permenantly. It's the way most free internet services go.

There's always someone out there to screw things up for the rest of us.

Microsoft is actually making a profit? I understand that there are enough hackers out there that if they didn't already have the backing they would go belly up with the burned copies of microsoft software. Everyone whines because they have to "activate" their windows xp and those who have illegal copies whine because they can't do updates. Microsoft can't win. I don't know why they bother. They should be like all the computer companies.. put the products out and then deny liability. Let the consumer beware. I remember when they were condemned for having the internet explorer as part of windows because other browser companies wanted to charge. Free software????!!!! heaven forbid.

That's a very cynical way to look at things, Lwr... But i suppose you are correct; at least on most of what you have said here. I really must say that I dislike the "It's my party and I can do whatever I feel like!" mentality. I mean, if you put out something as public domain and then decide to suddenly yank it, it's no better than taking candy away from a baby.. It's just MEAN!

Personally, I feel MSN chat sucks to begin with so no skin off my bones; PLENTY of chat services out there including iSketch, TalkCity, ZING, Eyeball, ICU II, and so forth. If Microsoft wants to become more profitable, I think their first step has to be ensuring their customers that their rights and ideals won't be compromised. Things like this make people feel like signing up for any Microsoft service is like signing their souls to the devil.

I run my own businesses and I personally feel that providing free services not only establishes a great relationship with your customers but it helps you attract new customers. Taking your free offerings seriously creates a level of integrity that is almost impossible to have tainted because customers see that you care about their needs, not just money. Sure, business is about making money but what is a business without customers? Crap on your customers and they'll be uphauled and walk away; and that's exactly what M$ does day in and day out.

Basically, Microsoft's only claim to fame is that they entered a market when it was in it's infancy, stole some great ideas, and have used cut-throat/strong-arm tactics to maintain a pervasive and almost invincible place in the industry. They're a bottomless pit of money, no matter HOW many people they let go (that's probably more efforts to become profitable - I know cause I have friends that worked for Microsoft and I've had sufficient dealings with the company to know NOT to model my business after them). What does this mean? They can lose tons of money but, in the long-run, they're making a profit and they're FAR from operating in the red. They're just greedy for more money and when I say "they", I mean the suits, the guys that enslave all the lackies to do their bidding. I'd really hate to be middle management at Microsoft; I'd come into work with a helmet on. =oX

Okie... Now I'M being a bit cynical.. BWAHAHA! DIE MICROSOFT!! J/K! =oP