This is surely recognition that being homosexual is not natural! It is about time that the rest of the world recognised that fact too. These people need therapy not work place support!

I don't think that this is a case of Microsoft bowing to pressure from the Christian Right. Rather, the turned on gay rights because they came to the realization that in order to be consistent with their corporate philosophy, they needed monopolize the position of screwing their customers and employees in the ass.

Good for Microsoft. Neutral is the stance that all companies should take. Let the social issues be tossed around in the public arena, whatever form that might take. Businesses should just abide by laws instead of trying to create or influence them - especially on an issue like this.

Perfectly said. Every word of it.

Microsoft should have never been involved in the first place , Businesses should stick to just that!

Agreed!!!

There should be no room for discrimination in the work place or and place inside the United States for that matter. But who really cares all our rights went down the drain when the stupid sheep voted for Bush in the first place.

When did sex become something acceptable to talk about in the workplace? Isn't that covered as harassment? If I am not allowed to go in and talk about sleeping with women, gay individuals shouldn't be gong in and talking about thier conquests either. Hence sexual orientation should be a non-issue, and the workplace / corporate america should not get involved.

Look at you go. Now look who's discriminating. "I'm open minded, as long as you think like me...". Leave the sheep alone sheep hater.

You're right. It SHOULD be a non-issue, but it isn't.

true...

It isn't just a simple matter of discussing your sexual orientation in the work place... it's about having equally of rights for same sex couples, such as having shared medical benefits for your spouse etc... Don't think so shallow.

Businesses should concentrate on their core product instead of wasting time engaging in political causes that only divide their customers. I don't know what is it with Gay groups wanting to push their agenda at all costs - it is starting to alienate most people.

Yeah, I can't believe we already caved to those Civil Rights leaders pushing their "agenda" on us in the 60s. Equality? Not in the land of the free!

/sarcasm

Yes, not being a second class citizen and having the same rights as everyone is is a bit too much to ask for. Darn them for asking. Note the sarcasm.

Microsoft, as a company, is entitled to its own opinion on any issue that arises. So they changed their mind? Big deal. Get over it. They have more pressing matters to deal with, especially with all the fire they come under with lawsuits and the like. Why should a software company be interested in anything but making software? And why should anyone care about their opinion on the matter if they don't?

Personally, I'm a Christian and I don't agree with pastor Hutcherson's threats against the company. "I told them I was going to give them something to be afraid of Christians about" and Microsoft subsequently "backed off." To me, that's not very Christian-like to threaten someone because they don't agree with you. We Christians don't have to agree and don't have to like it, but we certainly shouldn't make threats.

To Gay People: Shutup and back off MSFT.
To Hutcherson and his church: Don't make threats, its not Christian-like and isn't your place.

I (an agnostic), agree with the Christian. I can't believe that a "Christian" leader such as Ken Hutcherson (whoever the hell he is), is even willing to put such a statement out there! Since when is threatening someone a Christian value? This is disgraceful to all of humanity! Nobody should be afraid of Christians, they are supposed to be peaceful, "god-fearing" people! Not corporation threatening sociopaths!

I agree - with all of it.

So when did the "Application for Employment" form start including sexual preference? *shrug* I dont see how this should even be an issue when hiring someone. You as an employre hire people based on their qualifications. You have a list of things you need someone to do, if they can do it then they are considered for employment. If they have the most experience in doing those things over the other applicants, if they are willing to work for the pay offered, and if they arent an admitted felon, then they have a job.

On the "non-chrisitan" part of this post... Christianity has a history of doping unchristian things to get their way... the catacombs under vatican city are testament enough to that. Filled with christians who wishjed to read the bible against the mother church's wishes so the church had them killed.
Christians are by far, unchristian in morals even today. all sects of the christian cult believe it's either their way or straight to hell for you. Their guide - the "son of god" taught love, forgiveness and charity. yet modern christians teach of a god of wrath and jealousy and anger. You either do as he says or you burn in hell.

most other religions teach tolorance and love of others. not the christians.

The early church did do some horrible things to those who were not Christians, they forgot that Christ's whole life was love and his message was one of grace. It's also important for us all to remember never to judge a religion or a belief system by it's abuse.

Hello all,

I myself am a Christian who beleives in Christ and it never stops to amaze me how some christians believe that only they are correct and everyone else is going to hell. That is not what Christ taught nor is it how he acted! I studied theology in edu and have a doctorate degree in Theology and I have never knew Christ to use evil force to get his own will with people. He used grace and love and he had a passion for all His people, not a mere few. I have no idea who this person is that threatens Microsoft, but that does not demonstrate Christian value at all and in fact, to me, is more like Satanic value, either my way or the highway. Well Christ did not do that and neither should any Christian! So whoever this person is that threatens Microsoft he is on the wrong road and acts more like a Christian extremist than a true Christian.

Now as to this "Gay issue". I had always thought that a person was hired for their wisdom and knowlege and not their sexual orientation. I think the pre-requisite for a job is knowledge, not who you sleep with. So as a corporation, Microsoft should not be taking issue with this at all as they have better things to do with thier time. I also feel, that if the "Gay" people (who God loves also) did not make their lifestyle such a issue perhaps it would not be. I bleive in equal rights for everyone, no matter your politics and I do not think anyone should be judged for those politics when it come to employment, insurance and other needs of life. Sexual harassment in the work area is a bad thing and should not be happening at all, no matter if your gay or not!

Things like this kind of make me sick for some will go to such extremes to make such a big issue over something that should not be a issue at all. Just my opinions of course...

Agree with you there, as a christian too have similar views

quite frankly the gay community simply wants the same rights as everyone else...power of atty or insurance ect

This may open a can of worms, but I do not want all Christians represented in the way they are being represented here. While it is wrong to be gay (no that is not bashing, that's the truth), there is no reason to bash people over the head with it or discriminate. As to it being wrong, at the least you can say that it would fit the definition of adultery in the Bible (for most states anyway), as you are not married to them...other than that I agree with most of the Christians here though.

"...some christians believe that only they are correct..."

Disregarding the part of your statement after that, technically TRUE Christians should believe that they are only correct. Last I read there was a verse that mentioned Jesus as being THE way, THE truth, and THE life, not one of the ways, one of many truths, etc. I guess it depends on your definition of Christian though.

deleted, off topic. If you read it that is what I believe, but it's off topic...

are you so dumb? they cant get married because douchebags like you are keeping them from it, or else they would. also i think everyone should follow a dont ask dont tell policy becasue nobody wants to know anyone elses orientation so dont show up to work flaming and with a lisp and likewise dont show up talking about the hotest women in the world or anything like that.

Actually I never said I was against that idea...I am but I never mentioned that I was. I am not the "douchebag" who wrote the law though. I'm just a lowly PC phone support technician barely making enough money to get buy, giving my opinion. You, on the other hand, assume I am stupid for having different views from you. That's your opinion. Whatever.

DakotaSunRunner-

I think you've had too much sun. You wrote "I myself am a Christian who beleives in Christ and it never stops to amaze me how some christians believe that only they are correct and everyone else is going to hell. That is not what Christ taught."

You are 100% wrong. Christ said there is only one way to avoid Hell and that is through him.

Christ taught about being open-minded, merciful, welcoming, etc... but the he also states very clearly that certain acts are sins and the wages of these sins is damnation. Jesus makes it very easy to avoid hell, all you need to do is ask for forgiveness.

I think many people who claim to be Christian are not. The term Christian means to be "Christ-like", but it implies much more such as eternal life in Heaven. Many people who claim to be Christians, but who are not, are in for a very big surprise one day.

lol ... First, I thought we lived in a free society, but that is a whole other discussion. Who cares if this Minister wants to tell his congragation that they need to boycott Microsoft. How far does he really think that will go. Linux! Apple/Mac! His congregation isn't using Microsoft in their homes, or for that matter in their church. How many businesses does his worshippers work at that have the software and they will need to work on it. What, they won't be able to go to work, because MS is there. They will claim that working on computers is against their religion. (Hardy Har Har)(Your Fired!)
What on earth would MS be scared of? The Minister didn't think things through. He is a real idiot to even fathom this thought that he can influence the whole world to stop using MS products. I am not saying that gay is right or wrong, that is for you to decide. I will keep my opinion to myself, but this is truly an idol threat.
MS should have laughed in this guys face and did what it wanted to do.

good. i agree.

I don't understand why there is a backlash. Gay rights has nothing to do with software. MS shouldn't even care about the bill. Why should the company waste time on a bill that doesn't affect them?

Microsoft has 50,000 employees and is one of the largest corporations in the world. Microsoft has a dedicated lobbying force, and influences a great deal of legislation you see passed or rejected. Bill Gates eats lunch with Tom Delay. Microsoft is not just a software company.

When you have that much power, obviously you're going to see a backlash when people don't agree with your actions. The key here is that Microsoft supported the legislation for 2 years, and only backed away at the last minute. That's why people are upset, because it looks like Microsoft gave in to the Christian right and went against its principles.

It wouldn't be a big deal except they retracted their previous support. If they had never supported it in the first place, this would be a nonissue.

Amen! I agree with that..

Yeah, that's their downfall, if they would have simply said from day 1, they don't have an opinion, they wouldn't be in this predicament.. but they still have a right to change their mind.. maybe they don't necessarily disagree with the issue, but they are disagreeing with how its being implemented. One a law goes into effect, it seldom, if ever, has the same look as it was introduced, so maybe that's what prompted MS to change their mind.

I thought politicians in the US were supposed to use their position to express the wishes of their voters. Not those corporations who are able to pay the biggest back-handers.

Or am I just being naive ?

;-)

As was discussed ad nauseum on /., the bill text includes nefarious provisions that MS didn't want to include, that would be detrimental to gays in the long term. MS is one of the premier supporters of gay-rights, year after year. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

LOL. A fellow Seinfeld fan.

Why is it right for gays to pressure Microsoft but wrong for a minister to pressure Microsoft?

Why should Microsoft support either one side or the other?

They have only gotten involved because they are rich and influential and can be blackmailed by boycott threats. Bill Gates made a mistake to take either side in the first place.

He's not putting any money on defeating this gay initiative, he's just decided not to get involved at all, which is what he should have done in the first place. Let the two sides fight it out with their own money and votes.

Bill says one thing but does another

So do women, but we love them anyway!

Doesn't matter what the issue is, it still doesn't give any minister the right to threaten. I applaud Hutcherson for standing up for his beliefs, but giving such threats? It's a disgrace to the church if you ask me. He could have expressed his opinions in a much subtle way

Menting I agree christians should act not threaten. I would agree with the minister if he just did somthing about it but threatening isn't the right thing to do.

Hey if the church turns a blind eye to their officers diddling little kids, do you think they are going to worry about some political pressure?

Personaly i think its time we got back to the way it was in the days of the crusades . How bout it. Lets strap on some armor, sharpen up ole reliable and take it out side. Nothing like a few feet of steel up the wazoo to get a point (pardon the pun ;-) across.

I think you're confusing the Church with "child molesters" who use the Church for their own ends.

It undoubtedly goes deeper than that. Ovesimplifying the issues doesn't make them go away.

With a vast international nature of the child molestation problem in the church, and knowledge of and cover up by the church that argument doesn't wash.

Until they were called on it, the actions of the church were blatantly on the side of the child molesters, for decades. They might as well have openly condoned it.

I suppose you hate the Pope as well.

I do not believe that this church was a Catholic church, was it?

i do

i know it will come to that

It's just another dumb bill that's asking to be abused, smart move.

Just a dumb bill that is asking to be abused? What is dumb about outlawing discrimination? What 'abuse' would be coming from that?

Maybe in your little white bread picket fence covered world, everything is hunky dory, but, surprisingly, there are other things in the world than white bread and picket fences and people who like to discriminate against anything and anyone who doesn't fit into their narrow view of the world.

I wish I could get their attention with such a simple threat!

I doubt very much that MS is even a tad bit worried about some Minister. This is MS for Christ sake (no pun intended)

They should not have taken a stance in the first place. As a corporation they should just sit in neutral mode when stuff like this comes up and follow the laws when a decision is made.

This is not about being gay, or a companies backing that or not:

it's about EQUAL RIGHTS

it's about everyones RIGHTS to be an INDIVIDUAL

it's about VIOLATION OF SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

AND, it's about a HERITIC CULT DEMANDING everyone be like THEM

AND, it's about CHANGING THE BIBLE, for the convienience of a heritic cults benefits !!!

The Bible says: "Thou shalt not sleep with a woman as thou do a man."

The HERITIC CULT changed their version so it says: "Thou shalt not sleep with a man as thou do with a woman."

Doesn't the Bible warn that anyone who changes one jot, one tittle shall be DAMNED TO HELL ??

This is about buckling under TO THE DEVIL !!!

Think about THAT....

Gnasty

I also beleive that everyone should have equal rights and should not be discriminated against due to thier beliefs.

As a individual, everyone has a right to be a individual to think for themselves, that is a God given right. Even if a person is wrong God gives you a right to be wrong, and he also gives you a right to be forgiven for that wrong.

Violation of church and state? There is no such thing and those who beleive there is are allowing a court system (And ACLU) in the USA to perpetrate this belief upon the people of the USA, which is totally wrong as the Constitution does not contain anything to allow for seperation of church and state. It does say however, that a state may not take your rights away from you as far as your faith goes, but does not seperate the state or government from God. However, the courts and ACLU have demanded that there be a seperation of church and state and have stated it for so long now that most beleive it to be true, even though it is not.

Changed the Bible to satisfy the Heretic Cults. Which cults and how did they change the Bible? If anyone cares to study the Lexicons, Sinaiticus, Vaticanus and Alexandretta scrolls along with the dead sea scrolls they could possible learn allot. The syntax and dialectics of yesteryear and how people understood things long ago, could possibly be different than today. No one can change the Bible, it is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, however, some have changed the wording, which is easy enough to get through if you have understanding. No one may add or take away from the Bible, for it puts them in jeopardy if they do according to the last chapter in Revelation.

I understnad your words of who should sleep with who however, this is basically syntax here and means much the same. No man should sleep with another man as he would a woman, nor should any woman sleep with a woman and she would a man. This is against nature and God's Law. However, to keep in mind, if you do make these mistakes, God still loves you and you can be forgiven for this trespass. We must be very careful not to set in judgement of anyone in this issues, we have no right to judge as we ourselves are not perfect. Only God can set in perfect Judgement. However, we may discern the differences between good and evil.

I see no reason for you to use capital letters here, no one has to shout at another or do that to be seen. God spoke with gentle words and rarely raised His voice. Too many Christian today beleive that if they scream at you they can get your attention. Funny thing, Christ did not do that (but only on very rare occassions) so I wonder why many Christians feel they have too?

Remember, God is love and His love is eternal, so it is wrong for any Christian to demonstrate otherwise!

Just my opinions of course.....

I agree %100.

and why should microsoft care about equal rights? its not their problem

You know, I keep hearing about this "separation of church and state". I'm challening just one person out there to quote me the exact place in our constitution that states this.

Last time I read it, there is NOTHING in there that says this, but yet it keeps turning up like a bad penny.

Bleh... who cares about marriage and christians. The real issue here is the out-of-control costs of health care. Who cares if its your spouse or your partner--what they really want is benefits for that person (at least thats what they want from the employer). Fix health insurance and make it affordable enough that employers don't feel like they have to cut corners wherever they can with it.