If I was the EU I would stop p**** footing around. make a deadline, comply or else, and further compliance means further sanctions. keep hitting the criminal until they fall, and yes, ms is a criminal in this instance because the EU made a ruling or law that said ms had to do this that and the other thing. MS didnt so they broke the law. If I was the eu, the fines would start now and if the fines didnt bring compliance I would start issuing arrest warrants MUhahahahahahah

Yes, I am a big fan of Pinky and the Brain and I want to rule the world -- Bill Gatez :)

YAY! Microsoft will get fined money! LOL!

To bad it wont hurt too much. :|

Yeh, it said they can charge up to 5% of the sales from those countries, which amounted to 500million last year!!1!??? That's 10billion in sales...unless I'm misunderstanding what they're saying.

Personnal message to the EU:
"Go to My Control Panel->Add/Remove Programs->Add/Remove Windows Components->WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER

If you don't like then uninstall it!

Err...are you sure? Under Win2k that only removes Windows Media Player 9, or the Media Player Icon(I'm unsure about what it does on XP). Windows Media Player Classic(6.4) is still around though, and installed, and by default grabs all movie files you have codecs for. The only way to remove it is to not install it by altering the Win2k CD Iso.

You could just change the settings to have the extension to be used by another program. Easy to do. For that matter, what about Quicktime, Real, and the countless MP3 players out there that only play 1 audio extension. You cannot even play them without their player. You are not given the choice to use a different program on a camera. You don't see people whinning about that. Then try to play it on your system and you have to download their viewer which is pay only. Isn't this a monopoly? Yes, but rather than b****, I just go through the trouble and convert. Which up until a couple of years ago, you could not do at all.

Besides, they have developed WinXP N for those who do not wish to use Media Player, but now they don't like it. It isn't pretty enough for them. It sounds like a bunch of politicians (who are Linux users)that don't like MS, and they are just trying to get them to release the source code.

Even if they do comply with all the their demands, it sounds like they will still find something to b**** about. IMO . . . the source code is a double edged sword that can have worse consequences. They are selling it, that means it is available. Making it public could cause security issues and attacks from their competitors - I wonder who would do that?(MS Haters) If you want it, buy it! Stop whinning!

Agreed

1 word. LMAO

SHEEEEEESH. EU, stfu. Quit whining. Of course they aren't going to charge less for the WMP-less versions...it's a free download. They never charged for it in the first place. I always thought the EU was a moronic idea...this is proving that the increase of brains does not necessarily = increase in brain-power. People living in the EU, I feel for you... I'm sorry that the EU Comission/regulators are making you look like a bunch of imbeciles.

if you cant make it .. sue it

Holy s*** the EU is stupid. I hope they know that they make the countries they represent look retarded! I say MS pules their product off the shelf and let them all suffer.

1. The EU isn't a country. You might want to look into this before spouting off. They're a lot more progressive than the US too.

2. MS would NEVER pull off the shelves, because the US is already saturated. Microsoft needs other countries to continue their current revenue stream, and that means appeasing governments and trade unions. If they pull off the shelf, they concede to (probably) Linux, and that's a HUGE mistake for them. If Linux leads in marketshare on European desktops, it's only a matter of time before that catches up here.

> Holy s*** the EU is stupid. I hope they know that they make their country look retarded!

The irony in that kills me.

Yeah, progressively declining further into idiocy!

Don't be an idiot, its impossible to just switch to linux like that. If MS pulls their products, EU, will comply to ANYTHING MS does. That is exactly why this process is dragging. Notice, EU hasn't done anything so far.

Actually, they would probably start the process to extradite the board of directors to Europe to face criminal charges. They could also pass emergency legislation making it illegal to sell Windows in the EU, about 10 minutes later Balmer and Gates would be unemployed.

Think about it.

Some could completely switch to linux depending on what they do on their machine, however like in my case as much as i would love to I can't switch totaly to linux because none of my games work with linux and as far as I know there isn't a version for linux. I hate dual booting though so I have one machine with windows and one with linux.In situations like this it's gotta suck to be MS. They're screwed no matter what they do. It's a lose - lose thing for MS. Makes me kinda wish the EU would fine them out of existance. Then maybe more software companies would start making software for linux and mac.

Your kidding,right?

For the life of me, I cannot understand his( sethadam1)logic(or lack of) in this comment.

Not even a thought that would have even entered anyones head.

Well, I don't think they are in cahoots with each other, but I have to laugh at the thought that MS would pull their software and Linux would take over.

It will never happen. Public demand will place so much pressure on the EU that a compromise would be reached within a few hours/if not days. Nothing would happen in the meantime. This is why the EU has not done anything drastic at this point. Public humility. It is all politics.

With all the military and political facilities, near and far, that have this software on their systems and you think they are even going to make a difference. During this process of looking over the proposals by MS, the EU is going to be contacted by some very important people and in the end there will be a statement by the EU that will in some bloated-unrecognizable-political fashion state that MS is taking steps to remedy this situation. In all, there will be some changes, but not what the Open Source Community will want.

Depending what they do on their machines?

Business in this world would be at a stand still. Stock markets would crash, companies, and countries would crumble. Most people don't possess the skill to even move to a Linux system and the support isn't there to do so either. And then keep it up and running. Linux developers would not be able to keep up with any sort of patching for security issues. Virus companies having to change their scope and reprogram. It just isn't going to happen and to even think it will, is a PIPE DREAM.

Besides, similar things have happened and do you remember what the outcome was? Companies claimed bankruptcy only to have the gov't bail them out immediately. Politics are more into this situation than most people think.

It is poor reading material! Move on.

fewt
I hope you are just using sarcasm and I missed it.

If not:
Never will happen!

Though we don't like how they are cooperating, they are cooperating. The EU is asking for steps to be made and they are being made, but don't like it. That is funny!

Ok here's something I don't get. They want WMP removed. Well, when MS removes it then they complain because som eof their media file sdon't work. I'd be willing to say that the files that don't work are wma files. If so what the heck do they expect. Remove the player the codecs go with it. where did these morons graduate from the school of....DUUUH

Do you have ANY evidence to back what you're saying or are you just assuming? Did you even read the article? Other SOFTWARE doesn't work on the reduced media edition of XP.

It is just an guess. Yes I did read the article. I am making this guess simply because the OTHER SOFTWARE you refer to, some, not all, but some use the wma codec. MS being MS it sounds like a brillian stunt that they would try to pull. It seems to be a logical answer since the problem started when they removed WMP, however it is just a guess so you can quit acting like i'm and idiot ok.

I think that the EU is misleading here. What software in deed? MS Movie Maker! Hey, they only wanted the Media Player to be removed, what you are saying is that other software that uses Media Player codecs or extension might not work either? Well, HELLO, then they need to find a program that will play these files themselves if they want the program removed. Media Player was the issue, not the removal of program that use Media Player.

I can go to any store and purchase any computer off the shelve that has WindowsXPSP2 installed and configure it to use whatever program I want to play media files or browse the internet. Hell, I can even use a different Office suite if I want. ONLY those extensions that are copyrighted by MS will be playable on a player deemed by MS.

It is not different than installing downloading a .rar, flash, java, .ra, .rm, .qt, .mov, etc and having to download a different program to play them. If I remove that application, I cannot play them anymore. I could complain, but that is a decision I have to make.

The fact of the matter is that if you leave Media Player on the system, most people will not seek out and get another. They will be content. This is what the issue is. Same with IE. (Yes, I do know what MS has done with browsers to keep out competitors. But the fact still remains that people will not seek out something if they already have a product that can do it. Often times paying for it.)

There is nothing on an install of the OS that requires Media Player other than media files which can be changed. If there is SOFTWARE, then it was loaded by the individual and that is not the fault of MS, but a marketing perk of that company to use Media Player rather than have to download a player. That is smart and good business.

When you install Linux, there is a standard media player installed to play the media files and a browser(Firefox) for the internet. Is this not the same? But because MS does it, it is a manopoly. I see it as a double standard.

MS has done some things in the past that have not been good, and I see that changing as we move towards the next generation of Windows.
Applications that can move across platforms. They are listening.

Wrong, most programs use the Directshow filters. They dont rely on WMP but the directshow filters it installs (aka, codecs). Are most home users smart enough to download a codec if the video/audio file wont open? No, they just say it doesnt work and have the person they got it from change it to work (conversions, another thing that most home users have no idea how to do).

Is the EU that computer illiterate? Removing Media Player does not make it any cheaper! It's not even that important to the OS. Thought they wanted to give the "other guy" a chance?

Now they got people yelling that their audio and video does not work (what do you expect when most "third-party" software uses WMP components anyway?)

Maybe they will try to fine Microsoft next for the lack of sales for an incomplete operating system that no OEM (Dell, Gateway, Alienware, etc.) would ever purchase...who would want to give their customers a computer that cannot play media-files?

Did they even think this media player thing out or was the EU pissing in the wind with their demands? Maybe they should look into getting a consulting group to aid them with such decisions.

Sorry Hydrocon, but your argument doesn't hold water. If it doesn't "cost less" for a copy of Windows with WMP, then how can they charge more for, say Windows XP Pro vs. Home? How can they charge more for SQL Enterprise vs. SQL Standard? The fact is, Microsoft routinely cripples their software and then sells you, at a MARKED premium, the features they intentionally scaled back. Thi is no different.

By their own baseline, XPn should be less expensive.

You are right sethadam1. MS made Windows Advanced Server 2000, cut out some features and called it Windows 2000 Server. Then they cut out some more features and called it Windows 2000 Pro. That's not debated at all although MS definitly has the right to do that. However, WMP is available as a free download from the MS website and runs in both Home and Pro editions. In fact, if the edition "N" actually cost less then WMP would suddenly have a market value. People would say, "I'd rather buy the cheaper version, save 10 bucks and download WMP for free from the internet." This of course would be nice from the consumer end but from a business standpoint doesn't make any sense.

Which is the other retarded thing. It's a piece of FREE BUNDLED SOFTWARE. They aren't charging for it, technically, then they are not obligated to make it cheaper for those that want a WMP-free OS.

Windows WANTS people to use their software and that's why it was bundled with Windows in the first place. I'd say, "They should charge for it." but then nobody would want it at all. I dunno I think the whole thing's kind of retarded... Are they going to sue them for next? Having Outlook included in their Office suite of products?

The EU is going to sue Ford for putting cup holders in their cars probably...

Exactly, they are being completely unreasonable. But nothing will change, MS owns the world anyway.

You don't know the difference do you.

Microsoft should charge alot more for having to go thru s..t to remove it.

Any smart programmer can remove Windows Media Player themself without removing the core(used by other software). Unfortunately for us, Microsoft doesn't seem to have any smart programmers...

You guys are ignorant of the facts. Not your fault. Point is the original product design is a mixture of adv. server and server. They enhanced the HARDWARE SUPPORT (e.g., Adv. Server can take 8GB RAM and Server only 4GB...I am remembering from a test I had to take 3 years ago so I may not have the EXACT right specs here but you see my point) to make advanced server and disabled clustering on the server version. Also made a datacenter edition of win2000 supporting up to 32 cpu's and 64GB RAM (all of that is theoretical, of course).

XP PRO vs. Home? Pro can join a domaina and Home cannot. XP PRO was actually originally two separate products--Whistler and Neptune. Whistler is close to what XP is, while Neptune was supposed to replace Windows Me. Microsoft made a stupid mistake (to me) and joined them, so now home users have to have support for the NTFS, MS was just asking for headaches. Worse, since they needed a diff between Home and pro they had to disable something rather than not support it (forgetting the actuality of it--Windows ME was DESIGNED to be a client product with little or no LOCAL security, as it did not support NTFS, while win2000 had ntfs SUPPORT, and could have file security. Now that XP home has NTFS, MS had to disable an existing feature, the dumbest move I've seen MS ever make. EVEN WINDOWS 95 CAN JOIN A DOMAIN!!! WIN95 HAS FUNCTIONALITY ON A NETWORK XP HOME DOES NOT!!!)

Point is before you say something you don't know about either say "my guess is..." or "it looks/seems like..." or "I don't know, but suspect..." rather than rant about something you do not understand. WMP has come with windows SINCE 1993 WHEN WMP CAME WITH WINDOWS 3.1 Multimedia/Thundermedia Center Edition. Why now EU?

Hopefully the EU reads betanews (lol), and sees the majority opinion about this. Dont get me wrong--now that EU said they'd fine MS if it is not done, they need to keep their word. As far as giving MS some more time...I dunno. I wouldn't put up with it much longer though. If the next deadline comes and goes, EU has to fine them or lose what little credebility they still have...I still think some of those "antitrust remedies" are outlandish, but what's done is done.