I don't steal Microsoft products because I don't use them. But there's something here that might be getting lost in the shuffle.

If you buy a toaster and it doesn't work, you take it back and either get one that works or get your money back.

And software? You HOPE they fix it eventually, because once you spend that money, it's long gone. It's time to apply the same consumer standards to software that we apply to everything else.

Someone has to break the Wintel cycle of Intel building a faster CPU and M$ finding a way to chew up all of that processor.

Yeah, Linux IS different. Yeah, you don't have the choices in Linux that you have in Windows. And yeah, you never crash in Linux. And it runs on old machines just fine.

So, what are you willing to compromise on? That's what it comes down to. M$ is never going to be finished "fixing" its product, nor will Linux. But you don't have to pay for Linux's mistakes like Windows 98 original and then Windows ME. Did M$ Do The Right Thing and offer a discount?

For those of you who say your programs don't run in Linux, ever heard of Crossover Office? For $30, it runs Office, Photoshop, Dreamweaver and in fact I'm writing this in Internet Explorer in Linux.

oskarku

Boy you have alot to learn!

Having worked in Network Security for years, I have found many users feel little of "no sense of guilt" by using bogus or illegal software, often at the expense of their employer ( who is ultimately responsible). I think the only sure way to control software is through strcit security configuartion management and a signed acknowledgement (by the user) that if you use it for other that what it was purchased, that the violator is subject to a clearly stated fine and subject to serious disipline. While many companies use this policy, they do not get the personalized signature that makes it impossible to wiggle out of the guidelines by claiming ignorance or stupidity.

yes i agree ,but also should it not also be the responsibility of the software maker to charge a more realistic price

Well from my understanding of (SPA) Software Publishers Association, much of the high costs of software is directly tied from the people that steal it

and vice versa

yes especially when you buy soft ware and it messes your computer up or worst still destroys your hard drive so should we not be claiming against these company's

You are correct! Many of the purchasers of software fail to notice the often subtle impact of little or no technical support. Many large companies offer software at cheap (or expensive) prices and fail to mention their part of assuring that it gets installed correctly. Most reputable companies offer 90-day coverage. However, I have recently seen a trend to have no coverage and manufacturers have insulated themselves from contact for suport. Bottom line is supports is a large part of any product!

Not only is the price of windows high, but its license is very restrictive, upgrades aren't cheap either. i picture something more like $30 to upgrade. or how about $50 upgrade with the ability to sell used, out-dated version to someone that would still find it usefull.

Support those that are working toward an opensource windows alternative.Make Microsoft work to be the top operating system. They shouldn't make Windows a required piece of software. Make it an option among peers.

That's a really good point. I'm all for competition. It's about time Microsoft was pushed a little farther.

every time m brings out a an o s its for of crap ,you need up dates after updates to get it to work properly

Get a clue of what your talking about before posting a comment that you know nothing about.

The easy way to stop operating system piracy is to include the price of an OS in the motherboard price and marry it to a specific bios. The key would be a removable key for the issue of upgrading the hardware, sort of like the old Autocad(R) keys. The issue is not with the end user but with the system builders who do not aquire products thru legitamate channels. Also, a teired program for home user, bussiness user, educational user and Goverment user as for the level of software they get. If you need Office for home use you must be doing office work at home, let the company pay for it, or bring home your laptop, otherwise Works will do just fine.

What is missing to reduce the price is not less piracy but more competition. M$ has shut down or asorbed most attempts at alternative OS/Office suites. Money spent by Lindows defending itself rather investing in the R&D left the company with limited device support is a key example. Also, uncontrolable overseas piracy does not help much.

Xandros is an great replacement for windows, Lindows for lower end/older hardware. Fight back by learning the alternatives rather than bashing one companies attempt to protect it's assettes. Would you like a note in your paycheck saying "Your earnings have been reduced 20% due to uncontrolable consumer theft"?

Actions by learning alternative software resulting in reduced sales and demand will always bring the cost down.

One question, When does the Copyright on "Windows" expire? It surely cannot be a trademark infringement because Home Depot and Lowes are not beeing sued. :-)

I am a beta tester for v6 of "Microsoft" update aka:Windows Update, and the pirates are sure in for a surprise.

"The easy way to stop operating system piracy is to include the price of an OS in the motherboard price and marry it to a specific bios."

and then who gets the revenue from the "included price" this scenario assumes that there is one os manufacturer.

no, this is not the solution.

Plus, those "keys" would still be easy to get around.

You mean the old "dongles"? Never worked, nor will they work. Those will encourage piracy rather than stop it. Imagine how many calls MS would get with people claiming they lost the 'key' as you call it. Good for you and me because we are responsible and would actually care to keep the key in a safe place, but there are many people who think the world was made to serve them and will expect Microsoft to give them a key every time they lose it.

"M$ has shut down or asorbed most attempts at alternative OS/Office suites."

Really? Last I checked WordPerfect OfficeSuite has 11% market share, considerably more than 5 or 6 years ago. The problem is that it seems Corel for many people is a poor alternative, but it is also the only real competition. Yeah, there's openoffice.org and stuff like that, but unlike many at betanews, some people can't stand open source (including myself). I would imagine this opened a can of worms, perhaps another relevant article I might argue about open source vs. non-open source but not today...

Sounds good in theory. I'm not sure how it would actually be applied though. That could get sticky. Although, look at the solution we have now... It's pretty difficult all the way around.

WP has been the first choice of the "Legal" world. This could be the 11% marketshare. Most of the legal forms were in WP format until recent years, and conversion was not 100%. There are alternitives out there but 2 things stop them from growing, 1)Change from what you know, 2)limited comercialisims funding and 3) what schools are teaching. So what, I know I can't count :-).

try serife page plus 10 its better

Everyone wins when software pirates are stopped.

Everyone wins?

I am no pirate and i agree that it is immoral and illegal however do you think software would cost any less from microsoft if no-one pirated it? I'm just asking because while you didn't explicitly state it i am assuming you are thinking it.

In 2 more years linux should definately be ready for the desktop i can't wait to see how that will affect software prices then.

...obviously. When revenues go up, everyone benefits. If not the consumers directly (i.e. a price drop due to the company's better cost-to-income ratio), the advantages are still eventually felt by everyone. Higher revenues are better for the economy. Even if there is no price-drop, more money enables software companies to make better software faster. Thus, we have progress.

...need I explain more?

Given that Microsoft listed over 8 Billion in Net Income if they really wanted to improve their software they certainly have the income to do it. 5-10 million spent appropriately would probably go a long way to improving the quality of their products but wouldn't really do much of a dent in the cost of running the company. Given that they haven't fixed some of those issues after so many years has to make you think that Microsoft has become content to rest on their laurels since they have such a dominant market share in many of their products.

I'm not even going to comment on that. It's pointless to debate where money goes or how well it is spent within Microsoft. No one really knows what they're talking about when it comes to that. It's always just a bunch of little kids complaining about their favorite thing to whine about.

I too, am a Linux user. I am giving a computer to a a guy at work... I told him his only expense would be Windows. He asked "doesn't it have windows on it already?" So I then have to introduce Linux to him and explain what it is. To my surprise, he says "so technically I don't even have to have Windows, right?"
Just thought I'd share the story
:-)

I'm not whining or saying I know how they spend their money. My observation is merely is that your assertion that reducing piracy is clear win-win isn't accurate. Given the large profits the company has it would seem unlikely that there is going to be any substantial change in investment in products. If they wanted to invest in their products they could do that right now and still be one of the most profitable companies on Wall Street.

Your point on higher revenues being good for the economy is pretty silly. The reality is that the money that people choose not to use to buy Microsoft software doesn't disappear. It still exists and will still be spent. If anything the current problems with MS software shrink the economy because of all the resources that are wasted on trying to deal with the problems. Spending time reinstalling your windows install because of some stupid drive by download trashed your machine that could have been prevented by better software doesn't increase the size of the economy. All of the time you spend dealing with scum is time people could have spent doing something productive.

Linux won't be ready for the desktop even 5 years from now.

for the things i need to do, i need microsoft. Otherwise, i would switch to linux in a heartbeat.
It has become a necessary evil. I wonder if Microsoft will ever take the only really effective means against piracy... low prices! Doubt it in this day and age of the almighty dollar and lawsuits. I find it sad that these days, companies think that their rescources are better spent on lawyers then on lowering their prices.

Ah to be able to dream... That would be nice to believe things such as that.

Your killing me with your stupidity.

An evil where would you be without it? Give me a break.

Why not? It has been ready for the millions of desktops it runs on today for years.

Maybe you meant to say that it will be ready for your desktop in 5 years?

Contrary to popular belief Microsoft doesn't put food on everyone's table. Technology is not just Microsoft, they are just a small piece of the bigger picture. They are still the minority in server and internet space, and losing marketshare daily to Mac and Linux. Products in Microsoft's portfolio is a necessary evil for some, especially when that's all they have needed to know.

where i would be without it? probably fixing hardware instead of spyware infections. thats right and i have clients that run windows and unix systems side by side and when the unix ones need fixing, its 99% of the time a hardware issue.
Microsoft its 99% software issues. And 50 percent of that is adware and the like. So no i wont give you a break sorry.

How does Microsoft develop faster when they have more money. This only means that the rich get richer and the poor get sued for using a pirated copy of Windows XP. Because I can't afford to buy every little piece of software that is "required" to play a movie or a game.

Actualy when you think about it by stopping the piracy the people that dont want to pay for thier OS and have to find an alternative such as linux.

If enough people do that microsoft would loose market share and lower prices to try to regain the power they loose it's win win for the windows users lower prices and for the linux people more linux users means more interest by the software developers to make software and drivers linux compatable.

Yeah, Keep Dreaming.

Look at the amounf of Applications and Games that only run on Win32. Linux needs a *lot* more support to be the #1 Operating System.

I thing that if software cost less from Microsoft and other vendors, piracy would stop, or at least significantly decline. For movies and CDs, lower prices is a foolproof strategy against piracy.

I don't recall saying it was number one. I said it was number one for millions. You didn't dispute that.

I don't recall a tool that I needed which wasn't available. Shoot, I even wasted an hour playing Jedi Knight II last night, did I have to reboot for it? No.

What cracks me up more than anything is microsft files laws suits against everyone and all these priates right! then praises the laws and the law makers, but when microsoft is being sued for anti-trust or theft etc . . . They bash the courts. microsoft is just a company and like the people. They both just are trying to find easy money and they blame the system for there problems. lol! j/k but seriously if they are going to praise the courts in the good times then they need to accept the courts decision in the bad when they loose. YOU CAN'T WIN ALL THE TIME!!!!.

...please. You're going to dispute basic economics? When a service is rendered AND PAID FOR it always boosts the economy - ALWAYS. I never said there would be a substantial difference, but there has to be at least some benefit. I still believe it's a win-win for everyone. Are you honestly going to say that stopping software pirates is going to hurt anyone (other than the pirates themselves)?

umm... you don't have to pay for anything after you have LEGALLY bought a copy of Windows. Any media applications, drivers, utilities, codecs, whatever, are all completely free. In other words *scratches head*, what are you talking about?

If you don't have the money to pay for Windows (which is only $99 for an OEM copy of WinXP Pro - pretty cheap for an entire OS), then don't pay for it. Use Linux, FreeBSD, or one of the million other free OSes out there. It's actually legal to use them for free.

so.... more money = bad?

In that case, let me help you. Give me all your money. I want to save you from its evil. I'll take the horrible burden of more money upon myself because I'm just nice like that.

They were found guilty of software piracy last year themselves.

Though competition is necessary in keeping prices competitive and also low, do you believe that only one competitor to Microsoft(small as it will be) will make any difference in what the final price will be? Due to the amount of technical knowledge that is required for the Linux setup, most people would flock to Microsoft for the ease in setting up. Though at times there will be a glitch here and there, Microsoft still will beat out its' competitors. Who are the people that have the Linux systems? Some Businesses and Techies. If anyone else, it is because of a Tech that has turned them on to it.
I am not a Linux user, but would like to look into it from a personal interest use, but I hear it can be a bear to setup/configure.

I can understand how many hours the developers take to create windows. Even if it is a buggy copy as it usually is. But for the amount of software they produce, if they decrease the copy of their operating systems, software piracy would decrease alot. I am not a software pirate but I get impression this impression from people.

"Why spend 400 dollars on windows when i can get it free. If it were cheaper id buy it". I don't know how many times i hear this saying in run of a week. Its time for microsoft to readjust their pricing. For the quantity they put out theres no doubt they are making money. Decrease the prices a bit more and more sales will increase. Microsoft is already a billion dollar Corporation. Why not give the consumer a break?

Thanks.
Morpheus

its better than ms

so why dose bill gates need 20 billion

try free ware

you get it for 48$ if you know ware to look its o e m legal

think of it this way if it dose not work then ask for your money back they would soon fix things and drop the price

then lets all get together and start our laws suits about bad product softwareselling they would soon back down

The problem with windows is yes its open to vulnerabilities the thing is though if the roles were reversed and mac os or linux or whatever os you want to say is supreme if it was the majority it would have the same problems simply b/c if someone wants to be malicious they want to attack the most people and there is always a way to get in nothing is 100% simply b/c we are human and NO ONE is perfect. Yes microsoft uses active x what if active x never existed? Someone would find another way...Everything is constantly updated and fixed, patched, or scrapped. It can be software or hardware everything has problems Nothing is fullproof. Another thing about spyware...Get educated before you go d/l everything to your pc..spyware can be eliminated if people were more educated on what they should and should not d/l read before something tells you its free... the only spyware I ever had on my pc was me putting it there b/c I wanted to test the various spyware programs to see which one could really fix the problems and which just patched it. (Microsoft anti spyware is quite good actually formerly Giant)

You really believe that junk huh?

MacOS has been around as long as Windows, and Linux nearly as long. Do you really believe that in the time that these operating systems have been actively developed and over 4 billion people have been on earth that none of thse people dislike either plaform enough to target them?

Interesting. completely untrue, but interesting.

People have tried, and they have failed miserably to propegate viruses on every platform out there, except Windows. Now that Microsoft has actually put some effort into security, you don't see many blasters, nimdas, and slammers out there, do you?

Marketshare had nothing to do with it! Apache and Linux own the internet, even if you don't believe it, where are the worms and viruses? It was all about BAD CODE. Now that even Microsoft realizes that bad code is unacceptable you find viruses few and far between.

Millions would is pushing it, downloaded maybe and how many deleted because it's crap!

Do you have proof that Millions is pushing it, or did you pull that out of your rear? lol

http://counter.li.org/estimates.php
http://www.google.com/pr...st/zeitgeist-jun04.html

Where's your proof that there aren't millions?