What's really going to "cool" is the sound of the wind blowing through all the security holes in the thing while everybody upgrades their computers to a quad-core cpu with 2 gigs of memory to hold this morbidly obese OS!

Dropping $400.00 on Windows Vista is cool and "Makes the PC actually fun again" for me!!

Ha! Ha!

Oh yea, I almost forgot about product activation and validation by constantly phoning home to Microsoft, that’s cool and makes the PC fun too.

"If you want to ride the wave we're creating with Windows Vista, the best way is to have your application ready by the time we ship!," he added. "And that is very soon."

Unfortunately, if Service Pack 2 is any indication, none of the software vendors will give a rat's a** about Vista compatability until after it is RTM. What's worse, think of all the 'legacy' applications made by companies who are long gone--how can a defunct company patch their applications? I'm afraid that for a few thousand people that DEPEND on these legacy applications every day, they'll stick with Windows XP out of necessity.

What can Microsoft do differently? Well--I have no frikin idea. If the new OS were built more like Windows XP, it may be more compatible--but then again, it'd not be a big enough change for anyone to upgrade to. Microsoft has to balance new features and legacy application support...let's hope they found the right balance this time around.

people, you all now that the most important things in any OS are cool buttons! so stop making it sound like you care about functionality!

Yes, come on Windows developers. Start making cool apps. We are sick of the boring old apps that you make right now that help us get our work done.

I want gradients and widgets and glassy buttons and translucent fades! Yesterday!

Microsoft: Vista Apps Must be 'Cool'

But useful and stable can wait!

Daddy's cool, Daddys cool...

Ducka, ducka... ducka, ducka...

It will be the second coming of MS Bob

"Microsoft's Windows chief Jim Allchin called on developers to start building "cool" applications for Windows Vista".

"The first step, says Allchin, is to make sure an application is compatible with Windows Vista."

"If you want to ride the wave we're creating with Windows Vista, the best way is to have your application ready by the time we ship!," he added. "And that is very soon."

Thank you Forrest Gump!

And all of this wisdom from the head of MSWindows development...Someone open a window and clear the smell out of the room...

"And if they are cool enough we will bundle our version into the next release and put you out of business."

says Allchin under his breath.

Are they going to bring out a larger number of themes with vista? cause blue, silver, and olive are boring.

With all due respect... so you think the color schemes are the extent of the problem here!?

cool like that other OS that MS strives so hard to be like?

"It's not enough for things to just work anymore" as if

hehe:P
Nag nag nag...
I look forward to the day (And believe me it WILL come) when you all get together again in forum'ous harmony nagging all over again over the OS Post-Vista.
Sure i agree on some points in this discussion, but hell. What's the use? I mean Vista beeing a commercial product made to make money, and what sells? Cool stuff sells! Cool stuff is for the majority! Face it or shove it..

As microsoft clearly states:
"It's either our way or the... Hell! it's gonna be our way!"

So drop the nagging and switch over to Linux or the other beloved "Cool" MacOSX and leave the fluffy to the "cool" people.

are you Billy Gates?

"It's not enough for things to just work anymore, and Microsoft is endeavoring to meet these new expectations with Vista. A revamped user interface and underlying infrastructure means a completely new class of visually-striking applications can be built, Allchin says."

That's great for the consumer market, but how about "just making things work," in the business world?

Less show and more go will win in the Business world. People aren’t there to get the new Fluffy OS experience, they're there to do a job on pre-existing applications.

I think if the Applications can be updated to Vista spec quicker, the administrators of the world will be quicker to adopt Vista. I know at this point our organization is not even considering the switch until the first service pack is out.

Good grief my company (and I work for a major insurance company) still use NT with SP5.

How do you guys get MSFT support? NT4 went unsupported by MSFT at least a year ago! LOL

~dnc

Well come on dudes, eye-candy is an important aspect in selling any kind of product. It's not about what's under the hood that matters, but...the Presentation! Seriously though, I've installed Vista RC1 on my system and unfortunately it's not detecting my sound card (M-Audio Audiophile 2496) and the manufacturer has no intention of releasing drivers for it until final release :-( But, unlike a certain number of people here, I will not place a judgement on a product that is not completed.

You are all saying that this is not any big deal. "No new Changes” You would all be complaining if there where lots of changes.

For example, Imagine if MS said, "Ok, folks, you will need to by this new OS and it is not backward compatible. This is truly what MS needs to do. They need to start from the ground up and write a new OS. This however, is too risky for them. They have way to much invested to do this.

Way back in the day when MS came out with windows 3.1(not sure right version number but this is about the time) they also came out with NT. NT was very powerful and had lots of New stuff and was Security conscious. No one wanted to but NT because it would not run on their machines. “Bill”, said to himself not a problem, keep developing NT and let’s slowly raise the bar on our windows line. This is what he did and when we got to Windows XP the two products where merged into one. This whole thing has caused the problem that MS has. Not cutting the cord. Apple has never been afraid to cut the cord.

I could go on an on about how each of them has been smart and how each has been stupid. Your complaining really does not do much good. You as a normal person are not going to do much good, unless you decide to write your own code and make it easy for developers to write programs for this OS and then almost give it away.

lol they should have a HAL 9000 sidebar that says " I'm sorry but I cannot allow you to pirate that Dave"

why use it???
Count me out ... I will not be using Vista....

Yes you will...unless you switch to a Mac or Linux. Maybe not right at release and maybe not even for a year or so but eventually you will just like people did with XP (myself included)

yeah you will.... i probably won't buy it for a long long time but if i get used to rc1 which i'm currently running every now and then i just might consider making the switch eventually...

i'll let other people try it for a while though cause it took a while to customize and tweak my xp setup to be exactly the way i want it and why change something that works so well for me...

"Apple has pioneered making the desktop PC actually fun again with Mac OS X."

What??? According to who?

"What??? According to who?"

Just about everyone who uses it.

"ride the wave"

He really means, get sucked into the pit of the abyss by the riptide :)

"Ride the walrus." - Futurama reference (had to do it ;-)

When XP was released I used to use 98 and I thought when I installed XP that it really was a step up from 98 - and it was. My brother used 2000 and couldn't see any reason to install XP because it basically looked the same except with the Fisher Price idiot buttons which he didn't like (and neither did I actually). He eventually installed XP (and I do mean eventually) due to the only reason being that new apps he wanted to install either didn't work with 2000 fully or basically new apps weren't being written with 2000 in mind but only for XP. When he installed XP he thought it was a right pain in the arse disabling the cutesy dog search and the Fisher Price look and I thought it was a right pain too. But eventually (rather quickly actually) he grew to like XP. He now uses the latest super duper Mac with a great big widescreen monitor and I must admit it does look very cool. I've never been able to get used to a Mac and I'll probably never change to one. So given that I'll stick with th PC, I have to ask myself - stick with XP or install Vista? And I have to say I'm less than impressed with Vista. I've got a pretty damn good spec PC at the mo but installing Vista will slow it down because it's just not at the very high spec Vista will require. I have not seen one good reason why I as a user should upgrade to Vista when XP (even though it's 5yrs old) suits my needs more than fine. It's like the old upgrade to HD DVD/Blu-Ray arguement - why? Give me a bloody good reason because saying it's new, high tech & cool just ain't enough. I need a reason and I've not yet read one and for that reason alone - I'm out.

I don't use a computer because the programs are pretty or cool, I use it to get work done. I'm really sick of all this eye candy BS over functionality.

Stupid Microsoft... I'm getting a MacBook Pro! I advise you to make the switch too...

"People will just love these applications - from new DX10 games to cool Sidebar gadgets to new rich visual enterprise applications. Some of these apps are mind-bogglingly cool"

WTF is this? I Need useful Vista, not any cool sidebar gadgets!

same here... i disabled the stupid sidebar in rc1 and won't be using it anytime soon...

the clock is right there in the systemtray.... i like samurize for system info, i like feedreader for rss... i just plain won't be using it.

i agree if all you do is work and thats all you want your pc for then install linux. nuff said! with openoffice and koffice etc you can work with most documents, there's gaim, firefox/thunderbird, ftp clients, music players, all you need to work.

Just wanted to second your opinion about Samurize. It is highly configurable, and just plain cool.

http://www.samurize.com

Here in the UK a copy of any reasonably non-crippled version of Vista is soon set to meet the average cost of a new PC. I agree with other comments that the coolest thing MS could do is stop gouging us (particularly us UK folk who pay dollars>pounds direct numerical equivalent or more).

PS Using graphics hardware to speed up the interface (f*** the swish effects, which I also turn off in Mac OSX at work)is a practical consideration that should have debuted with XP at the latest, not be considered a luxurious add-on for high-end versions of Vista.

Are you kidding me? Microsoft Vista is doom from the beginning to the end. I can't believe people will actually go out and buy this piece of CRAP. I have been testing Vista for the last 4 months, All I have to say there are going to be a lot of people diappointed when they buy or install Vista on the computer and/or laptop.

If you have more than 20 processes running in the background than your computer is running only at 40% of its speed.

The computer system used to test Microsoft Vista is a Intel Pentium D 2.8 GHZ, 1.5 GIG RAM, 160 GIG 7200 SATA HD, NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT

Here are the top 5 reasons to avoid Microsoft Vista:

1) First of all, one good rule of thumb to always remember when upgrading your operating system: "IF IT WORKS... DON'T FIX IT..." It costs Microsoft only peenies to produce one copy of Windows XP and Windows Vista, they sale these operating systems at a $100.00 and more.

Talkabout price gouging... Microsoft needs to fined substantially...

2) Second of all, Vista has a fancier interface which no computer guru cares about. This includes over 90% of Windows Users.

3) Third of all, Vista has a corrupted TCP/IP configuartion which will drop a high speed internet connection. I've been using a 6MB download. Windows XP Pro runs at top speed.

4) Fourth of all, the security features in Vista are useless. All a computer user has to do is download ZoneAlarm Free from http://www.zonelabs.com. This firewall will protect your computer from incoming and outgoing internet traffic.

5) Finally, Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 and 7 are the number one rerason why people receive spyware on the computer. To reduce spyware just download Mozilla Firefox 1.5.0.6 from http://www.mozilla.org/ IT'S FREE..

One Final Thought... It You Want To Avoid Spyware On Your Computer...

Always Remmeber: "IF YOU DON'T WANT TROUBLE... THAN DON'T GO LOOKING FOR IT..."

Ok that's annoying, why would you copy and paste a post you wrote awhile ago. Try putting something new, sure its the same info but make it fresh. Even that is weird, granted I love the anti microsoft comments. Keep em coming.

"It costs Microsoft only peenies to produce one copy of Windows XP and Windows Vista, they sale these operating systems at a $100.00 and more."

Yeah, because they kind of have to pay the people who worked on it.

" It costs Microsoft only peenies to produce one copy of Windows XP and Windows Vista, they sale these operating systems at a $100.00 and more."

Are you still spouting that nonsense? You don't think it cost them anything to hire all the people who spent years working on it, or the advertising and other costs? They aren't just selling you the plastic disc you fool, they are selling the content. I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of your post because it's all just as retarded.

He's more than just a troll, he's a lazy troll. ;-)

What you meant was it cost millions to produced the first one, and it cost only pennies to create the next one.

Payroll. Legal fees. Marketing. Legal fees. Utilities. Facility mortgages and rent payments. Capital and infrastructure costs. Legal fees. More than pennies dude. Way more than pennies.

However, I have also been testing Vista since "alpha" builds, right up 5600/RC1. I can only say what *I* feel about it: it's a disappointment. I really expected more.

*yawn*
Come back when you have something new and viable to say.

Uh, no... It costs more than pennies... this is not an assembly line just pumping out automotive parts. Sure, the physical media might cost pennies on the dollar to produce, but including all the costs above, plus all the costs for the assembly lines themselves to operate. Let's not forget all the support people to be there to manage the millions of calls and emails that will come in. Plus, the on-site support people to deal with the corporations that contract MSFT consulting services to deploy it to their enterprise.

It ends up being very expensive per copy for any company to mass produce software now-a-days, not just pennies on the dollar.

How about a "Cool" price for Vista instead of sticking it to us like they always do.

Cool apps? Are they serious? Why isnt Microsoft cranking those out? Sure, you can argue Vista is a "cool" app, but it's really not that revolutionary. Even MS has said many times that it's more "evolutionary", so we're basically getting stuck with the option of upgrading hardware and software all over again to leverage these "cool" new features. I'll wait until SP1 ships.

No, Jim, Vista doesn't need "cool" apps. It needs practically-conceived and well-executed applications that easily and quickly accomplish a task. After you've built that, then you can add the necessary eye candy.

For a company trying to imitate Apple, Microsoft apparently lacks the first clue as to why the iPod and OS X are succeeding.

Yeah, they need to learn about good marketing techniques.

That comes after having something worth marketing. Apple has both something worth marketing and knowledge of how to market it. Microsoft has neither.

puh-lease...

Consumers aren't getting anything all that new..

All the technologies have been around and in use for years

The GUI may be slightly different but not much

The technology powering Vista isnt all that new either..

every time ms releases a "new" os this big huge bandwagon of people hop on saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. it's all new, more powerful, leaner and meaner...

MS, i task you with a REAL job.. build a whole new OS.. from the ground up, using none of the currently existing technology, making the os in form and function, totally different. Make it more powerful indeed at least... so that I can run the OS faster and using less powerful equipment to accomplish the same task as is currently needed.... remove the bloat, make it smaller, leaner, and more stable...

THEN I will be inpressed..

and before you flakes tell me to go out and try doing it myself... get real.. if I had gates' money and all the resources at MS's disposal, I would in a heartbeat.

Amen brother.......

All the technologies have been around and in use for years
The same could be said for most OSes.

The GUI may be slightly different but not much
Other than the fact that it will take advantage of your video hardware instead of taking up CPU cycles, yeah it is only slightly different. Because how it looks is where differences count, right?

every time ms releases a "new" os this big huge bandwagon of people hop on saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. it's all new, more powerful, leaner and meaner...
Really? They are? Where?

MS, i task you with a REAL job.. build a whole new OS.. from the ground up, using none of the currently existing technology, making the os in form and function, totally different. Make it more powerful indeed at least... so that I can run the OS faster and using less powerful equipment to accomplish the same task as is currently needed.... remove the bloat, make it smaller, leaner, and more stable...
Ask that of any other industry and no one could possibly take you serious. Imagine asking Ford to design a new car...without using any of the existing technology, such as: wheels, alloys, airbags, gears, carburators, etc...

Everyone reuses things...because it is inefficient to reinvent the wheel.

and before you flakes tell me to go out and try doing it myself... get real.. if I had gates' money and all the resources at MS's disposal, I would in a heartbeat.
You mean you would hire people to try doing it. And can you guarantee the people you hire would do any better?

I'm looking forward to Vista, however, I really don't like that the 3.0 framework is coming out. Come on, the 2.0 framework was released last November and it's already obsolete? Geez... I'm one of the only developers at my current job that is using the 2.0 framework (I wonder if they're going to let me jump to 3.0 - I mean I do have an MSDN account ;-)

"Have you seen their embarassingly patronizing "I'm a mac, I'm a PC" ads?"

Wow, you consider those patronizing?

Must've responded to the wrong comment eh?

Well it is very possible that corporations and average consumers as well as power users are all dying for a change. They want to see something different in front of them. After staring at the same os for just about 6 years now who can blame them. however will vista sell 200 million copies in 2 years? microsoft wishes, however they would sell millions of copies of xp even if they didn't release vista. It's all about new computers, from oem's. Every single one of their computers, typicaly anyway have windows xp. So if dell sells millions of computers along with hp, toshiba, gateway and lenovo. Then well, you now know where the revenue is coming from. It's not the average joe upgrading or buying another copy of xp, unless of course they upgraded and have a oem copy of xp which is one shot one kill.

200 million copies, at lets say 200 dollars a piece, 40 billion dollars? That sounds about right for microsoft's revenue that 20 billion a year. Microsoft makes what, almost 40 billion in revenue? It will be interesting to see what their first quarter looks like after vista is released. It will go up im sure, who knows how much though.

Along with vista and office it should be a good 2007 and 2008 year for microsoft. After that I have no doubt they will start to fade. One can hope right?

omg.. it is almost like MS is rather nervous.. begging for support.

Apple: release OSX for the generic X86 platform and sell it for 50 bucks less than Vista.

That aught to set a WAVE... not Vista.

keep dreaming buddy

Bill Gates actually owns Apple, so Steve Jobs won't be allowed to unlock Mac OS X and sell it to everyone.

he owns stock.. not enough to make APPLE his.

And not enough stock to have total say so like that.

cat /dev/wallet > endlessmoneypit

"Analysts are predicting that the new operating system will be installed by 200 million people within the first 24 months, the quickest adoption of any Microsoft OS. "Millions of people will be looking for applications," Allchin noted."

Kind of dubious. What analysts? Why not mention one or some by name. For all we know they may be analysts hired by Microsoft. I think this is a highly suspect number.

Internal Microsoft Analysts, that's who.

heh

Michael Sievert, Windows Product Management and Marketing made this statement. He also said that Windows 95 shipped on 67 million new PCs during its first 24 months. 200 million seems quite low to me. Just something for you to pick at for MS?

Windows 95 brought dramatic performance and stability (at the time, of course) to end-users. Vista's claim isn't proven, nor is it seen as a nessesary investment by most analysts I've read about.

This isn't 1995. You can have more users today with less interested as a percentage. 200 million is a pin prick

There is a big difference between an OS being shipped on new computers and saying an OS "will be installed by 200 million people." I don't doubt that millions of new computers will ship with Vista - most new computer buyers will have no choice.

His statement implies that this number of people will be upgrading to Vista or building systems with Vista. It's an exaggeration with carefully chosen words to suit his purpose: get more applications developed for Vista to entice more people to use (buy) it.

There's no crime against marketing blather - it's more American than apple pie. It's just interesting and misleading that this claim is from a Microsoft analyst and not a supposedly objective one. And that the source is not mentioned in this article.

What is your source for claiming it is exaggerated?

The only thing we can do is wait.

It is not a factual number. It's a prediction. It's his opinion. I just think his projection is purposefully high because he has a personal stake in Vista's success.

Microsoft is an easy target. They can't help it. But I don't think for a minute that Apple wouldn't be held in the same regard if they were the monopoly and Microsoft was the underdog. Have you seen their embarassingly patronizing "I'm a mac, I'm a PC" ads?

I wonder if its gonna as unstable an in compatable
with apps and hardware

He must have included people installing vista which they have downloaded :)

i like it!

Funny though, how OSX is in steady decline according to recent studies...

"If you want to ride the wave..."

SIGH.

I'm looking forward to Vista, however, I really don't like that the 3.0 framework is coming out. Come on, the 2.0 framework was released last November and it's already obsolete? Geez... I'm one of the only developers at my current job that is using the 2.0 framework (I wonder if they're going to let me jump to 3.0 - I mean I do have an MSDN account ;-)

You do understand that .NET Framework 3.0 as just added the WinFX into the .NET Framework 2.0 right?

There have been NO changes to the .NET Framework 2.0 itself, except it now includes WinFX. They decided two "frameworks" were going to confuse people.

For somebody who claims to be in the field of programming, I am shocked you don't know this, oh right my guess your not really that high up on the food chain.

Any real developer would know this, and you clearly didn't since you think its an "update' and something is "obsolete".

.NET Framework has been out longer then November in forms of pre-releases, which have to count, because alot of software was designed during that time.

Go read about what the .NET Framework 3.0 includes, then come back and we can have an inteligent conversation.