Ok. I have to comps 1 with xp another with vista. I had xp for what? 8 years or something? Well in the XP machines I never had to format it because of a malfunction on it OS. On the other hand in the Vista machine I had hundreds of freezed OS and 1 format due to unrecoverable errors in just 6 months of using it. Am I being unlucky or is it that this product is not safe for use yet? Lately is kinda working ok with the latest updates althought it is a resource hog with no apparent major diferences apart from the problems it gave me.

It is fun to watch Microsoft, Mac and Linux fanboys duke it out...

I use Vista at home and XP at work. Of the two I prefer Vista. At first, until I got Vista working they way I wanted it, instead of the way M$ wanted it, I preferred XP, but now Vista runs far better than XP ever did.

It matters not, Vista is crap. Much the same as that other failure Windows ME.
Seems to be a theme here:
Windows 98 (excellent, stable) went to ME (crap)
Windows XP (excellent, stable) went to Vista (crap.)
Bag the endless, irritating pop-ups and overhead eating Vista and wait until MS comes up with the next great leap.

Tom

Is that the same release model R.E.M. has with their albums?

I cannot imagine a universe where Windows 98 could be considered stable, or excellent.

I've not had a single problem with Vista x64 in 7 months, much less a slew of popups.

People should take this in the same light as Apple's "Mac vs PC" TV ads. They exaggerate stuff to make something look better than it's supposed to be.

But in all fairness, Vista really doesn't suck that much. I still prefer XP because it's faster and less strict on stuff but Vista isn't as bad as some people claim it to be.

"MacDailyNews Take: It's sad, and telling, that Microsoft has stooped to using the least tech knowledgeable people, Windows XP and earlier users, to fool. This is like taking people who've lived all their lives in tar paper shacks to a trailer park filled with double-wides and asking them "Gee, isn't this great?" Without, of course, ever showing them, or even mentioning, the beautiful mansions on the other side of town. Where the Mac users live.

And, by the way, these tech illiterates were shown a "demo" of Vista. Not let loose with the thing, not allowed to touch things on their own or, God forbid, try to install it and use it on their own PC. "Mojave Experiment?" "Rigged Experiment" is more like it.

So, Microsoft is going to try a $500 million ad campaign designed to convince to their long-suffering XP and earlier sufferers who've never used Mac OS X* (or else they'd be totally unimpressed with Vista disguised as "Mojave") that even though 10,000 reviewers ran Windows Vista through extensive reviews and found it generally to be a derivative, bloated, hardware-taxing, incompatible, falsely-advertised, overpriced pile of crap that they were wrong. Everybody was wrong: the majority of corporate IT people who will not upgrade to Windows Vista, the Windows-centric and Windows-dependent reviewers, the Windows "power users," everybody. Because Microsoft thinks they're smarter than you and smarter than everybody. And you and everyone else made exactly the wrong choice by buying those iPods and now those iPhones and for even thinking about - much less actually - dumping Microsoft's magnificent Windows for Macs in droves.

Bottom line: Microsoft is planning on spending $500 million to tell each person on the planet 50 times per week, "You're just an ignorant fool and you're stupid for not liking Windows Vista."

Just try to keep them out of the Apple Stores, Microsoft, or your ruse is doomed.

* Microsoft's Windows Vista rehab site does state that 22% of those duped were "Apple OS" users at one time or another, we assume - which, we guess, means: Apple DOS users back in the 1980s! Nice try, Microsoft, you weasels."

Below is an absolute must read for you Vista fanboys who think Microshaft is on the right track with this rigged "experiment"

http://wilshipley.com/bl...nt-bad-science-bad.html

the only thing that's sad is you

"You're just an ignorant fool and you're stupid for not liking Windows Vista."

Is that any different from you for telling everyone just because you have a computer and Internet connection that...
"You're just an ignorant fool and you're stupid for liking Windows Vista."

these people get brainwashed or something??

Of course they're brainwashed, they're XP and Winblows 2000 users! Why do you think M$ chose this pathetic group of losers.

Ah...one of these days you will learn the joy of reading...

FTA:

"The people we tested were were a collection of Mac, Linux, and Windows users who have not made the switch yet to Windows Vista," BetaNews was told. "We look forward to showing them on July 29

I am not a fan of M$, but with the largest installed userbase, you have to use their stuff. When vista first came out, had so many issues and then SP1. At the end of the day, for the average user XP is more mature, and supported, easier to support. Where Vista does get a thumbs up from me is when you use the 64bit platform. XP 64bit still sucks, has as many issues as Vista 32bit, but because M$ was trying to make Vista backward compatible, the 64bit version is mostly compatible with a lot of stuff that won't run on XP 64bit. It has its place and the 64bit server 2008 also follows suit.

A year and half of no anti-virus programs with Vista and do you know what a professional deep scan found?

46 cookies.

Can't say the same for XP, which allows anything and everything to change key settings and program features with no warning what so ever.

XP simply blows and you all need to wake up.

By the way, my brother in laws tower is sitting in my basement with a lovely Bonjour trojan that hides all the drive icons and changes your settings so you cant even open your display settings or device manager.

Yes, XP is wonderful. Dumb asses.

p.s. I'm no big fan of Microsoft, I just know something is better when you get screwed with trojans and viruses over and over and with Vista, you don't.

And to think, you could have experienced what it was like to have an OS that is not plagued by malware but WITHOUT the bloat and memory hogging LONG before Vista a.k.a. The Mac Rip came along.

Yet you have the nerve to call XP users "Dumb asses" O_o ???

I think you should be kicked in yours while you take a long look in the mirror...

Dumb Ass.

Well, hmmmmmm. I know a person that we will call a friend; yesterday I had him install a virus scanner for the first time on his 1.5 year old install of Vista Home Premium, 34 viruses in the IE cache alone. Yeah Vista is so much better.

Your freind needs to stop opening attachments and visiting porn sites.

The "viruses" were probably cookies anyways.

He also needs to turn on that feature that lets you decide whether to install those trojans or not. I'm sure he or she turned it off as it's such a nag to get warned of impending doom.

Are you some pathetic Mac fanboy? None of the software I use to make a living will work on a Mac, unless Windows is installed.

Microsoft knows that 97% of the general population has an IQ less than 100 and can easily be swayed like the dumb a** sheep they are.

Such a sad pathetic little fanboy.

First he thinks that BluRay is taking the world by storm, as it hopes, by years end, to surge to 3.6% (12% of the 30% who have HD capable sets according to his figures).
Surge indeed!

And now he touts Vista as the greates OS in history by denouncing evey other release MS has created and by denouncing Windows users - all of who before 2007 were using a MS OS that only "dumb@sses" would use!

So not we learn that MS understands the less than 100 IQ audience and marketplace.

Well, that answers a lot of questions.

Not only do we learn from a Windows fanboy that the the vast majority of Windows users are dumb@sses (as Vista's sales figures suck), but that MS cater to the less than 100 IQ.

Its nice to know that MS products are aimed at the less than 100 IQ crowd, of which you obviously belong - even if the high end of that range is simply wishful thinking on your part.

But it also provides quite a bit of insight as to why so many, after being abused by Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, and XP are not looking seriously ar Linux and OSX.

Obviously this is where the group with IQs above 100 are going.

Enjoy your overprices BR movies, fanboy.

Speaking like the true Muppet you are.

Bashing people's posts on BetaNews is hardly a career. You obviously didn't know all operating systems have internet access availability. Go flame on some gay pride site or something and stop bashing good technology. Mac, PCs, what have you, they're all tools of the trade.

Huh, Microsoft deceiving people... never would have guessed. Seems that really is the way to get people to like your products.

Wonder how many people went: "Just like Vista and I hate it", before they where able to find enough people to put that commercial together.

lmao!

Notice how they specifically found people who never used vista before. Because all know, in about 30 seconds people could of figured it out if they had.

Vista is much improved and the first year of release was a nightmare. Even vista 64 bit is ready for prime time, I have been using it for a few months now for everything and I have had no issues. The driver situtation really has improved 100 percent.

Of course my experience is with 4gb of ram. Choke Vista with 1GB and you are going ot be hurting.

My advice, don't upgrade to vista, if you buy oem machines, hp, dell etc get it with the new computer.

Vista gained its reputation from its initial release, its tough to regain that. Just like a crap company with poor customer service, you can improve it, but the damage has already been done. Better come out with Vista 2.0 and call it that code name for real.

>>Windows vista works great and it has a lot a good features.

Pretty GUI effects and better security than XP are two. Name all the other good features then.

Performance information and Tools-->Advanced Tools is worth every single penny of the upgrade.

Too bad the most common issue is driver related.

My biggest gripe with Vista isn't the OS, it is the drivers for the OS. They really suck compared to the maturity of XP drivers. And yeah I've seen a wide range of drivers issues from many manufacturers.

I don't know if Nvidia will ever create a good driver again. Even the latest drivers for XP are crap; so I don't believe that its just Vista. Creative has never done a good job on their drivers.

mjm01010101 said: "Performance information and Tools-->Advanced Tools is worth every single penny of the upgrade."

All those tools are available in freeware and work fine in XP.

So far, I haven't found one single reason, good enough for me to spend $300 on Vista.

XP doesn't have a performance diagnostic or even tell you on the fly what is wrong with performance. I know of no freeware that can reliably analyze performance of a system and tell you exactly the cause of slowdown. Please enlighten, as I do use quite a bit of XP still.

XP's perfmon is crap compared to the revised one in Vista.

The system Health report is incredibly more detailed than any provided by a freeware tool or XP's own tools.

mjm01010101 said: "Please enlighten, as I do use quite a bit of XP still."

I found many right here on Betanews over the year.

But another great place is Sysinternals, which now reside on a technet section of the Microsoft website. All the tools from Mark Russinovich are there. There are so many, you have to go and try them.

And to help even more, buy Mark's book: "Windows internals". It's the best way to understand how to use his tools.

It apply mostly to Windows XP but lots of it still apply to Vista.

I Still remember when XP cames alive that a lot a people says, oh no, stay with win98, its better, XP crashes, XP takes a lot of memory, etc, etc.
Nowadays these people says the same about vista, and That "bad" XP becomes a "good" XP? Weird!
Windows vista works great and it has a lot a good features.

7 years have passed. 7 years mature XP is now. 7 years of hardware advancements. 7 years it's been in the hands of the world. Do you understand now?

So in 7 years Vista will be great and the next OS will be crap?

Since i switched to ubuntu, and Wiindows XP only for my old and great games(NFS IV, NFS V, Flat Out II, Warcraft III, Toca II, Worms world party) i have no problems,hehe.I don't like new games and i'm teacher, i don't need design or video edit programs,hehehe.
I'm not Win hater, but i like very much ubuntu.
I don't need a top end system, i don't want expend a lot of money every year.
I've got more important things to expend my money, and i haven't got a mammy owns to me a new computer :D.
My two PC's(both with P4 3.0MHZ and 2Gb Ram) run fresh and perfect.
If you want visual effects, Linux distro's.

Hopefully, you are not an English teacher, good god man that was a painful read. hehe

:::Checks topic:::

Hm, look at that it doesn't say Ubuntu in it whatsoever but here you are rambling on and on about it...hehe

I love my kitchenaid toaster it butters my bagels better then any other toaster, hehe

Not i'm not English teacher, i'm not english native speaker and i speak english very bad.
i owned a laptop 5 months ago(1500€) with Vista, after two months i downgraded to XP because Vista(even with SP1) was a s***.
I hate Vista, and i work with Vista everyday because in my job there are computers with it.
But don't worry, every new Windows system will have a lot of visual effects for "children" and noobs, sidebars, glass efects and a lot of more stupid staff, but with the worst performance.
But you are lucky, although a Mac or Linux have got more performance, even with wors hardware, the greater part of PC's users will own M$ OS because they only listen to music, chat with friends and play games.

I don't even know where to start...

n00b? really?

Here's a nice tidbit of info for you, running Vista on a apple computer (which is using everyday pc parts but are better quality) actually runs faster then OSX... I know its shocking...

So basically running Vista on a machine designed for it it runs perfectly fine, on hardware not designed, not so much.

Yeah, sounds like you know what you are talking about oh and you use M$ - nice...

Yeah and Linux, OSX has "children" effects as well but don't let that not keep you from making some kind of point about god only knows what...

LOL @ worse hardware Leopard does not play very nice on old hardware but you know keep dreaming

Compiz Fusion also does not play nice on old hardware either but again keep on keeping on...

Alot of PC users also use their pcs for video editing, graphing, and music production too

Vista is an ok OS but I still think that XP was better. I hate Vista because it requires so much hardware and yet the performance is just a step above XP.

I find it surprizing that Linux can beat Vista by miles on the same hardware and even on much worse hardware.I ask myself why would I want Vista and I can't come up with any compelling reasons to get it.

I've got no reasons to get it.

So you comment on you use it all the time at work and used it on a laptop which you spent 2 months with & now you say there's no reason to get it?

Which is it?

You used it and did not like it or you never have used it because it doesn't offer anything FOR YOU?

Well speaking for myself, I love my Vista. Absolutely no issues with my Vista Ultimate. I'd have to guess that the folks who are not enjoying it are folks who are new to the computer world and have no idea how to use an O/S in the first place. All I am hearing are cry babies going off at MS as usual... probably folks who are nubies to computers and have no idea what a mouse is.

Did some of you whinners want some cheese to go with that?

If you are finding the new O/S too much for your 1992 486 SX, perhaps it's time to upgrade to a newer system, perhaps even a Pentium model of some sort... hint - a Dual Core with at least 2 Gigs of Ram. It's so funny to read the whinners cry for computer help in not so many words.

I wish MS would just say, "we've heard your concerns and we're hard at work addressing them in the next OS". Instead we get this circus mirror crap shoved at us.

Now...now...remember where you are!

That would come dangerously close to making sense...

...and we should all realize that that violates the laws of the universe.

Isn't that precisely what they said about Win7 so far?
Additionally they just seem to be as sick and tired of the Vista whining and misinformation as the rest of us.

They are proving a point that Vista is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be and they have stated that Windows 7 will optimize the codebase that was used for Vista and should make for a better experience...

Which I would assume would show up in a second service pack for Vista to make Vista run even smoother.

It runs great on new hardware but old hardware not so much so if you are not planning on buying a newer computer anytime soon, wait for win 7

misinformation?

I wonder if those MS videos are as convincing as the Video Professor testimonials!

I know as I have all of the Video Professor DVDs! And if Vista is half as good as they are, I can buy the Video Professor Vista DVD too!

Its nice to see MS learning from the best!

Do you have the eBay ones? Are you rich yet?

Independently wealthy!
Thanks for asking!

...How else would I have the time to frequent this site like so many other IT industry experts whose expertise is predicated upon their owning a rad gaming rig while living at home with their parents?

;-)

"Independently wealthy!"

Such as your mum raised your pocked money by 5 bucks a month for washing her car?

Only a Euro socialist too ashamed to allow the mention of his genocidal hetitage would interpret the word "independently: to imply dependence on someone else. But old habits die hard for someone who cannot function without the state playing mommy to him.

But at least his analogies are consistent, for you see, to his mind, he is dependent both upon the government and woman who nurtured him as he refers to all as "mum".

After all, what can provide greater independence to a genocidal socialist than to have the state as mommy?

Now, if you can just get a grip on the meaning of the term "independently".

Say "hi" to the Jews, Roma and Arabs as you proudly drive by their pogroms as you celebrate your accomplishments and refuse to acknowledgment the overwhelming successes of the Euro genocides...and be thankful that you have the benefit of the seized Jewish gold to fund your state initiatives.

And just think, maybe you can build a new amusement park in Srebrenitsa. Especially now that you needed worry about houses and civilians getting in the way.

Foxy the Muppet at it again.

To make this clear. Neither me nor anyone else with a life has time to read more than the 1st sentence of your pamphlets. Anything else is lost.

Now about that sentence - If you dumb**** knew about my heritage, had any clue besides knowing how to talk out of your a** and any integrity you would be very very ashamed of these infantile insults. Do you realize that this heritage you ****head insult is shared by Jews, Roma and Arabs? But since you are so proud of your nations achievements? How about booking your next holiday in Vietnam to burn a couple more children or blow up a couple of weddings in Iraq.

The so called "Mojave Experiment" is a good example of social engineering. Although it's interesting for social sciences studies, still it's ridiculous and bearish. I think (M)Someone is very anxious... They believe that there was a bad marketing policy for the product and they try to prove this statement with the "Mojave (we have a big stock of vista to get rid of) experiment". I want to believe that someone told the "subjects-in-the-experiment":

- Heloooooo, the demo wasn't even interactive!!

So what the heck, is there any conspiracy behind the vista failure? Of course not, but we have to be fair. Vista has a unique advantage among all the other operating systems. It truly encourages you to try another OS!

Right on the spot...
Nobody though it? Much discussion without noting something as simple as pfg pointed?

I think a lot of commenters are dissing this they have been around pc's awhile and visit a tech oriented site like Betanews.
What they are forgetting is that most people don't know the difference between IE and Firefox, they use Outlook Express because it came with the PC not because its the best and they use Windows Media Player again because it came with the OS. These same people MS used in the experiment usually have a buttload of icons on the desktop as they have no idea how to use favorites/bookmarks or how to organize their start menu.
So I think its completely plausible to be "fooled" here since many people go by hype and so if they hear Vista is bad, they agree with it, even though they haven't used it.
I use Vista and it works beautifully, though admit Linux works better but its not for the average user yet.

Also someone commented that sheeple buy ipods and I totally agree. Sheeple buy it because everyone else has one, well I don't and I don't miss it. I have far more freedom with my Meizu than the closed off ipod.

But it all boils down to that MS did a poor job marketing Vista and those who didn't care for it did a better job spreading the word.

Point exactly. The average computer end user would not know the difference anyway. I'm 100% sure if they did the EXACT same thing with Windows XP MCE SP3 and had all the 3rd party upgrades installed as I and many others do, they would get the EXACT same reaction. Hell even it they did it with Linux with it configured properly, and had all the software installed for it.

Nice try Microshaft but we all know your OS is a Mac rip and IT'S STILL INCREDIBLY SLOW AND BLOATED! No amount of lame videos will change that REALITY.

Heres all you need to know:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vHK8Irb3P5E

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8

OMG that was so funny. There was only one feature that was even useful in the "Why Leopard is Better Than Vista" and the f**got in the other was retarded, picking out only a few minor crappy features. Like Linux has a Menu bar so it must be stolen from Microsoft. I hate retarded people like you. Yes, I don't care to much for Vista, and I don't feel that it has or will do much for the computing world, but I am not going to make crap up like in those videos, to bash it.

Careful with using the word "f**got". There are several of them here, like PC_Tool, termanlx, cesscam66, fewt and Program86 that will take great offense to that.

Vista may be bad, but the Mac OS is worse.

And those Mac commercials, OMG, they are aimed at imbeciles and the Mac people eat it up like candy. rofl

So, we have resorted to being 7 again, I cannot for the life of me figure out why you troll message boards on a product you have no clue about and blindly worship another that you don't even use.

I guess starting "fights" on message boards is your brand of humor.

You contribute NOTHING to this forum, not a single thing have you ever said is coherent nor does it have any truth, you are a troll plain and simple using pathetic insults as well.

Wow, really? you mean all these men met your mom too?

I guess none of us stuck around long enough to tell you that your mom scaring us gay was actually just a joke. I mean, I shiver and get chills over the very thought of the memory of seeing her naked, but well I guess if you are with that many men..

Sorry, I really honestly thought you knew we weren't serious about that.

Damn, I'll be more careful, didn't realize you were so sensitive.

Ok, fine, it's a rip (whatever you say...). MSFT just took it and made it better.

hehe

yeah dude i met his mom.... GROSS!

but hey if he's calling us all "f**gots" then he must be a f**got =]

Haha, look at the people in those videos. A bunch of old AOL farts that hardly ever use computers.

Where are the vids of the young people that know computers? Oh, they are the ones that hated Vista.

"Where are the vids of the young people that know computers?"

The ones that keep infecting their parents PCs by using Limewire? Those young ones?

Sorry but the expectations for a tech savvy youth have been much overstated. Yes there are more computer geeks amongst those under 30 but its just not up to expectations. Or even the claims of some readers of BetaNews.

Vista a bit of a disapointment. Even to MS from reading between the lines. However it isn't the ME level botch many here claim. Most of that is coming from people that never even used ME. That don't remember the problems with XP. Vista was bound to have more than XP though because of the attempt to end the bad habits of users and programmers that had everyone an administrator.

Tech savvy people are still fairly rare. Some even like Vista. Some still use Windows 2000. Its partly a matter of taste.

LOOOOOOOOOL!!!!! :D That was very funny and pretty much says it all!

Hmm, lets take customers that already don't like our product, lie and deceive them to think that it's a different product and then see if they like it.

At least they come clean at the end.

All this advertising does is admit that Vista has really really bad mindshare, and show that Microsoft isn't against using deception in it's spin. It doesn't really solve anything.

Unfortunately.

FTA

"The people we tested were were a collection of Mac, Linux, and Windows users who have not made the switch yet to Windows Vista," BetaNews was told. "We look forward to showing them on July 29"

It sounds like its people who only heard about Vista, I could be wrong but thats the impression I get, so they aren't deceiving really. As I previously stated I'd call it more of a social experiment to show how someone's comments affect how someone else who has not seen the product before would follow blinding with the small pack of naysayers.

So, it proves that sheeple are sheeple?

;-)

haha

"sheeple" I love the name!

see IPOD to further prove that sheeple are sheeple :D

Not saying its a bad device (I own two but because it syncs up with my car)

If it didn't I wouldn't bother with it.

But mp3 player is synomous with ipod

Microsoft should be careful. These ads could easily work against them if Apple chooses to make a mock ad.

I think that Microsoft would be more wise to plan a refresh of Vista including a UI refresh and a catchy name like 'Vista: Reloaded' and make sure to increase the wow factor while addressing issues, rolling in the security updates, and including more built-in value software -- meaning, something comparable to iLife.

They could even rename Vista as someone else here mentioned. Lord knows that AT&T/Cingular and other companies conduct rebrandings regularly for one reason or other - it gives them an opportunity to drop the baggage that their name may have established and re-enter the marketplace stronger.

For a large company such as Microsoft, I do not understand why such an initiative would be difficult. It's similar to the precident that Apple sets in its release cycles. Apple doesn't rebuild OSX from scratch with each release - and Microsoft doesn't need to either.

It doesn't matter what Microshaft decides to call it, at the end of the day it is still a slow, sluggish, bloated Mac rip. O_o

Why not experience the real thing and get a Mac? Nothing compares with the Mac experience.

http://www.apple.com/edu...profiles/wisconsinvideo/

Mac rip? HA HA if it was a rip then it wouldnt have the "NT" kernel pendejo de mierda

Spend more money to not be able to play my games. Sure! O_o

It is really cool, they have some really neat videos, and I saw a taleban and a rastafarian.
Really cool.

This is not about Vista bashing. I use XP. I would prefer to shift to a new more secure interface with shorter "getting used to" period. Vista takes a couple of more steps or an OK to warning than an XP or Mac. Sometimes, even while typing, an unusual disk dump freezes the computers for a second or two. Everything opens slower on Vista. On network relations, even with SP1, unless you use Windows 2008 Server, copying moving files are slower. We were expecting some compatibility issues, newer hardware requirements. What we were not expecting are slower responses and the most annoying interface even with a new hardware. Intel, as a company is skipping this generation of Windows. I experienced all OS. XP, Vista, Mac, Redhat. I play with VMWare. I personally use XP but if I would change, I would change to a MAC. It is responsive even with that eyecandy interface. Leaner code. Everything is snappy. I do most tasks going through less steps than Vista. Reality check guys. Instead of these experiments, they need leaner code. They should spend their resources on that. Admit it. Vista sucked big time, we made a mistake like ME. Windows 7.0 will be faster and leaner. But no, spends oodles of money on a sinking ship. Tell everybody that Vista's kernel will not change and will be a basis for Windows 7. An that will be on 2009-2010.

LOL!

"This is not about Vista bashing"

Then you proceed to go on and bash it. Awesome

You only get an ok warning when you changing something that could affect the system, basic tasks do not require this. The average user will hardly see it.

I will concede it was slower at first but since sp1 it moves just as fast as XP with copying (including over a network)

You would change to a media access control? as I am sure you aware capitalizing it means a MAC address and not Apple.

"I would prefer to shift to a new more secure interface"

Man, that's what Vista is compared with XP...

Awesome.

"... but if I would change, I would change to a MAC."

Smart man (or woman). Follow your hearts TRUE desire. Don't live in miserable self denial like most here. You can never go wrong with a Mac. ^__^

Stop hating and congratulate this man for being FAR more intelligent than you and wanting a Mac.

You truly are a token M$ fanboy loser.

Hi meet reality, reality meet troll..

Hi internetworld7!

Yeah, you need to learn how to READ as there is nothing even pertaining to a fanboy.

I pulled FACTS, not made up results pulled from thin air and as we have discussed you don't probably use either as no one is that moronic...

The point that the MS bashers are missing (I know I am surprised as you are) Is they are going by on the people who "heard" about Vista but probably never touched it.

In a way you could say MS is conducting their own social experiment to show how word of mouth and inaccuracies can hinder a product.

FTA:

The people we tested were were a collection of Mac, Linux, and Windows users who have not made the switch yet to Windows Vista," BetaNews was told. "We look forward to showing them on July 29

decide for yourself? Yea SUCKER!!! Thanks for your money!!! The decide for yourself mentality is exactly what MS wants. It means you went out and got it and now guess what? you can't return it.

Sorry but they need to do this with some people that actually KNOW more about a computer then how to turn it on and get their email.

Like I said before Vista is Fine for NEW equipment in 64 bit. Otherwise don't bother wasting your time and money trying to get your 2005-2007 32 bit Pent4 or dual Xeon machines running it.

Vista should have been for 64bit only and Bingo all the problems disappear... Why? Cause gee wiz its all new equipment which Vista was specifically DESIGNED to be used on.

As to the other BS that MS tried pulling pre SP1, Well they figured out people do not like processes calling home all the time eating up resources, and they did significant tweaks to the DRM infrastructure, and activation crippling system to prevent the outbreak of problems that happened last year. So while it Still happens, it is not as resource bloating as it was prior.

And the driver issue, well MS just basically figures wait long enough and everything thats not compatible is legacy anyway so why should it matter to them. Force you to go out and get new equipment JUST for Vista. Thats what they want, thats what the industry wants. the only person that does not want that is the consumer. But they do not matter anyway. Oh look here is another pretty picture to distract you.

Oh I also find it interesting they are displaying a PicLens screen for the videos implying THAT is a defualt feature from MICROSOFT. When in reality that patent is CoolIris, and can run on even windows 2000.

I have no clue about this DRM you speak of...

Vista has built in SUPPORT for it, it does not DRM any of the files nor does it prevent you from putting illegal software or music on your pc since day 1 it has functioned this way.

The calling home feature is something the user would agree to the experience program I believe is what its called, you don't have to say yes...

The driver issue is on MS and the manufacturer,by your logi we should complain to Apple why I can't use such and such.

We should also complain to Linux why such and such does not work either.

You complain to the manufacturer of the device its not like they haven't had time.

"Like I said before Vista is Fine for NEW equipment in 64 bit. Otherwise don't bother wasting your time and money trying to get your 2005-2007 32 bit Pent4 or dual Xeon machines running it.

Vista should have been for 64bit only"

Absolutely clueless.

If only more companies could make an OS as good as Vista. Vista gets less blue screens than Leopard does and has better hardware support than any non Microsoft operating system. The trend that Vista started with its hardware requirements is likely going to continue with all new operating systems.

The most hilarious part about the Mojave videos were the people that made the incorrect assumption that Vista crashes more than XP. With Vista blue screens are almost non existent. If a program won't run under Vista then it's the developer's fault, not Microsoft's.

"better hardware support than any non Microsoft operating system"

That was absolutely true until Vista was released. Now, Linux has better hardware support.

Unless you are referring to bleeding edge hardware, then Vista has an edge.

I've seen Vista crash and reboot several times, it's related to drivers so it's not Vista's fault however it did not recover gracefully so your argument that it crashes less is false.

If you can get Vista working with certified drivers, then I'm sure it's rock solid. That however would counter your argument that it has more drivers. :-D

That said, I like Vista.

I haven't had any blue screens with Vista
I own a scanner, ink jet and tablet and they work fine in Vista...bought about 2-3 years prior to vista. My laser printer works fine in Vista too. So does my webcam...and a little photo keychain I bought. Vista seems to work for capable people :D

The extra hardware support in Linux is either for old hardware that hardly anyone uses or for obsolete hardware that wouldn't work in a Vista capable motherboard anyways. Nearly every piece of hardware that has Vista compatible drivers has certified drivers unless the hardware is made by some small no name company. As for buggy hardware drivers, it's almost always possible to recover gracefully using system restore, even if you have to boot off the Vista DVD to do it. With the exception of Mac OS X it's not nearly as easy to go back in time on Linux or other versions of Unix.

Really, because I'm running it just fine on hundreds of "new" devices. This includes a brand new ALive "Vista" board, a Lenovo T61 notebook that came out of the box just a few weeks ago, and many others. I don't have driver issues, and everything is supported out of the box.

I didn't even have to load a driver for my WIFI, Bluetooth, Thumbprint reader, or display. Go figure.

So, A: you are completely misinformed, and B: you are completely misinformed.

Any time the system dumps memory and reboots, that's a non-graceful event. Stating that I should use system restore is as silly as saying I should reinstall my Linux OS to fix a kernel panic.

When drivers cause a crash or non-initiated restart it's a non-graceful event. The OS is irrelevant, and a restore disk recovery is not "graceful" by any stretch of the definition.

"hardware hardly anyone uses" I'd guesstimate at 90% of the market that isn't on Vista.

Edit: I don't have driver issues other than hibernate / suspend but I don't know of any OS that is doing that well other than XP.

:-D

Reinstalling an operating system such as Linux, for example, takes longer than Vista's system restore because most likely after you reinstall the OS you have to reconfigure it as well. Vista's system restore is no different than taking an image of your system in an earlier state and extracting it to a hard disk. This only takes a few minutes at most. This means all of your settings before the buggy driver or software was installed are still intact. This is not true if you reinstall an OS.

If a particular piece of hardware will work with a Vista compatible motherboard then chances are there is at least a 32-bit Vista compatible driver.

All I'm saying is that it's not graceful. :-D

Any manual action to repair a system (of any kind) is a non-graceful event.

I've never had to use system restore, or an image, or re-installation of the OS to fix a Linux system, but that doesn't mean the fixes I have employed have been graceful. Same for Windows, and Mac.

:-D

BWAHAHAH! Those poor poor fools!

Like a SUV test drive!

If you gave people an SUV to drive for 10 min, but they never had to park it or fill the gas tank, people would love the big seats and smooth ride.

These users did not have to do any of the things are broken, so Microsoft Vista looks good. As soon as they own the computer, and have to do odd-ball things like print -- then we will see the rating drop to 4.4 or lower.

Only "Instant Search" helps us work faster, and Google was able to make a good search work on older version of Microsoft Windows for free.

This is and advertisement with an elaborate premise, not anything more.

You are 100% correct.

You're absolutely right. That's the first this I thought when I read about this. Have they used it for a week?

I always refer to the performance of an OS as the OS itself patched or not and the spped it takes to boot, shutdown, hibernate and how it performs file system operations and other general tasks.

If you start with a clean OS and don't have all the bundled OEM crap installed, which lets face it is half of the installed software people get with a new PC nowadays, Windows XP and Vista (32 or 64 bit) run very well with 2GB or ram on your average sub £500 machine.

When it comes to Vista vs. XP it is a much of a muchness in that there will always be changes made and some people will and won't like the change.

I am not for or against Windows being a Mac and PC user and a Vista and XP user (Vista Ent 64 at work) and find that they all have their pros and cons.

Personal preference reigns that is all I'm saying.

The old story about 'how you wouldn't spend $$$ on a new car without giving it a test-drive' is still true when it is applied to computers which is essentially the point the Mojave test proved in that people who have no knowledge of Vista are often those that pass on the 'I don't like it and won't use it' attitude and so better marketting of Vista from Microsoft wouldn't have been a bad thing I grant you but having realised that mistake that is what Microsoft are now tring to do.

This has to be the dumbest advertisement campaign I have ever seen. "Decide for yourself"...hahaha oh! man o'man. They must be pretty desperate to pull an ad site like this. So, basically, forget what IT pros says and try it yourself!! Hahahahaha!!

For one, the people that are testing the "new" OS must not be very smart, as to believe that it is in fact a newer OS. Do I really need to list a second, third, or fourth reason?

so those blind taste tests that food companies also do is dumb? it's more enlightening if anything...grab some brain cells, they're good you know :D

Yeah but blind taste tests requires at least two products ;-)

If people truly do only have a problem with the name, Microsoft should simply rename it. If anyone doesn't think that this idea will work just refer to the worldcom incident and remember that people in general are stupid.

This is exactly what I was expecting.

These users were given no chance to
-install legacy devices
-troubleshoot drivers
-Install all their favorite programs and deal with UAC hell.

From an IT Manager's perspective, I come across home users, and my own experience with Vista encountering the above issues *all the time,* and I come across actual users who 80% tell me they dislike it, and 20% say they have no issues.

Here's an example. Last summer we bought slimline HP nc2400 laptops, pretty much the lightest laptop you could buy from HP at the time. We bought them with Vista 32-bit business on them, and immediately had issues with sleep. Sleep is vital for our laptop fleet. Users are trained to sleep their laptops instead of power off, because the productivity gain was tremendous. What did Vista complain about? Graphics drivers. TPM devices, ethernet drivers. We were running the latest and greatest, and still had issues with crashing laptops. After a month with HP and Microsoft, we rolled back to XP, and we've had none of the same issues, and nobody is clamoring for Vista.

This is but one example. I use Vista day to day, and I see regular anomalies:
Windows explorer is so poorly designed I can't believe it passed the UI gurus at MS. Truly horrid.

-The search interface is terrible. Try searching nonindexed locations regularly on removeable media and you'll see what I mean. If you don't use indexed locations, the search sucks compared to XP.

What rocks about Vista
IE7 is truly a better browser, I still don't use it but from a end-user's security perspective with it's lock down mode it is great. We still install and recommend Firefox.

The troubleshooting tools are just fantastic. They rival XP easily. Sadly, when I do use them, the problems almost always come down to device drivers, telling me this OS is still immature from the perspective of OEM's.

Vista is OK. I give it a B now compared to XP SP3's A (It is mature and works.)

Your first mistake as an IT manager is buying HP products. They suck period! How do I know that? I'm the proud owner of one 3 year old HP notebook running Ubuntu 8.04 server. The freaking thing locks up for no reason even when not in use! If this thing does it to linux what makes you think Vista will run any better?

> one 3 year old HP notebook

A sample size of one does not statistically represent the entire output of a manufacturer.

I've had three HP notebooks, and they have all been fine. My company has dozens of HP notebooks, and we've only seen one or two problematic units.

No. It ends on a matter of preference and pure luck. Every brand has a bad series of products and you don't know until later.I now have three different brands of hard disk in my home computer because of that. :P

In any case I would be glad to hear more elaborated comments like mjm01010101's one.

My experience with Vista is mixed. I have friends that use it but as I like light and speed interfaces I clashed with Vista since the start. The extra seconds I needed to do usual tasks didn't seem to be justified for my usage.

It also didn't help that in the notebook I bought Vista crawled and XP run quite fast. I then tried it at my recently bought home computer and even while it run decently it took more time to do some tasks or even open some applications so I decided to wait until later.

If anybody wants to use Vista go ahead, but don't shove it into the users that don't see any need or advantage in buying it.

Have you tried Debian Etch (stable)? Not exactly bleeding edge software, (about 3-6 months behind current) but the most stable OS I've ever used.

"Last summer we bought slimline HP nc2400 laptops, pretty much the lightest laptop you could buy from HP at the time"

...and did you know that the lighest you go, the less performance you get? In order to keep battery life and temperature under control, manufacturers use smaller/less powerful processors so, you are trading performance for lightness.

Yep, but that has nothing to do at all with reliability of drivers. Oh, I get 9 hours of battery life out of a 4 pound laptop, btw.

We use HP because dell shafted us on support for a Server issue back in 2001. As an IT manager, I don't take kindly to being ignored for critical support manners.

HP Servers are rock frikkin' solid, and I have been reasonably pleased with the hardware on the HP corp desktop/laptop side.

As for ubuntu server, it' a server and doesn't belong on a laptop. Ubuntu and pretty much all linux dists have issues with acpi calls on laptops. I would put ubuntu on hardware known to work well with it (and have)

Months ago my mother-in-law bought a notebook with Vista. After playing with it for a few days trying to setup network, software, etc., I decided my next computer would be a Mac. And that's what I did and I don't regret it. A 10-minute demo of an OS is not a good measure. If I watch I 10-minute demo of Vista, I'll like it. The problem is when you try to use it. It's slow, it's hard to find drivers, network configuration is painful. I bet this wasn't in the demo.

And this is a personal experience for you. I find vista to be very responsive, I have no driver issues (every one of my devices works and works well. The only issue I have is something I blame creative for, not MS) and network connections is easy to find if you type just that into the search box on the start menu. Voila, same ole network config dialogs.

Totally agree ... no problems on any vista machines.

meh, Vista has it's uses. It makes a great HTPC - Vista Media Center being one app that they definitely did right. I wouldn't use Vista for everyday computing - I use Linux for real work, but for gaming, and now HTPCs, Vista is pretty decent (although Vista 64 performs so much better than 32 speed wise, codec support is severely lacking in Vista 64).

I'm guessing if you actually built ur computer for Vista from scratch, it'll probably perform a lot better than if you slapped Vista on a machine that's barely croaking by running XP.

Actually, I think that x64 codecs has by and large cought up to x86. Install the Vista Codecs Package and x64 add-on, and you can play anything. I have Vista Home Premium x64 and am watching xvid, divx, mkv files etc. with Vista Media Center.

I wish it were that easy. I had to get the ffdshow x64 tryouts builds to get them working, and even then I still can't get Yougle working on Vista 64, so no browsing youtube or watching SouthPark episodes through the Media Center.

Well, just the fact that one still needs to install the x86 Vista Codec package and then the x64 package means that the x64 codecs haven't caught upto it :) Otherwise it would just be a matter of installing the x64 codec pack only.

I refused to get a new computer with Vista. A year later I broke down and got a new HP Laptop with Vista Home.

I do not hate it. I run it with Aero on and I play my games, do my stuff.

Is it faster than XP? No. /shrug

XP was no ball of joy for many when it was released if we all look back and remember correctly.

For the average computer user I don't see the big deal in using Vista.

Certain to be in the minority. Oh well.

in other news:

Cigarette makers show video saying smoking one cigarette has no negative health implications

vista still is a bloated piece of crap if you ask me.
(apprently i'm a minority though)
running Vista and XP SP3 on my Core2Duo 2.2, 2GHZ DDR2 was like night and day... also you don't have to confirm every friggin system modification you make.

XP is still king. it's mature and stable enough to be relied on as an everyday production environment and if you're not a complete dumba** you're unlikely to get a virus or anything of the sort. I compulsively run antivirus/rootkit/spyware every other night for the past few years and have NEVER, NOT ONCE, gotten any virus/rootkit and only the basic cookie-based spyware.

Vista is so slow I can't stand it. Most ppl I know run Vista with Windows Classic theme and without all the bells and whistles... so I ask: Whats the difference? I mean in practical terms, apart from UAC...? (which is more of an annoyance than anything)

Download Google/Microsoft Gadgets if you really like the sidebar so much... =P

[/rant]

what about them fools like myself who installs vista and some extra bells & whistles and like it ;)

its all subjective, but I guess if your hardware is not up to it it might get slow.. not sure, got 4Gb before getting vista..

Takes all of a few seconds to disable UAC. You know, just like those obnoxious features of XP or OS X or any flavor of Linux that we all reconfigure upon install.

Did you try running DOS lately? It's fast as hell on those new machines.

Poor argument there. Sure its fast but what do you have for it thats is practical. I mean good luck finding productivity software for DOS. Even back then it was limited. Where as Productivity Software for XP is plentiful. Its the same problem Linux and apple has... Limited software development for their platforms. Stuff people will actually USE!!! Unfortunately Big companies still consider Windows the primary game to create software for. so that's that.
eventually all new software will work on 64bit only. Which was the same issue back when windows 2000 and XP where at heads. Once the software caught up people switched to XP. Even me. But that was Years down the line from the launch of XP. Same will be true for Vista. Sometime in 2010 probably I'll move on to Vista for all my equipment, which will more then likely be upgraded by then across the board.

XP:
Fast
Works with legacy equipment 2000-2008 32bit designed.
and all existing software (especially important to corporate world with payroll and project development)
has established driver library and almost universal connectivity all the way back to windows 2000 and windows 98.
Secure IF you put the proper programs in it.
Secured and stable NT kernel.
Easy to update and write code for because of existing resources.

Vista:
Newest OS designed for 64-bit architecture
New kernel built from the ground up.
Legacy support limited
Software prior to 2007 obsolete and often incompatible. Even MS products like Dynamics and Great Plains. (of course if you purchase a very expensive $10,000+ upgrade it MAY work but more then likely you will have to transcode all data into a new installation instead of a simple upgrade.)
Significant Performance drop when using 32bit platform.
Feature window dressings disappear if its not the latest hardware. (even though Aeroglass was originally developed for XP by 3rd party which means it SHOULD work but does not artificially from MS)
UAC security (optional but on by default)
MS makes bold claims Vista does not need an Antivirus program at all. (WARNING WARNING DANGER DANGER WILL ROBERSON!!!)
A MCE shell that is pretty good but has limitations with HD, that the XP MCE does NOT have. Still its an improvement on the default interface.

Overall I still give on a scale from 1-10
XP MCE SP3 a 7 (unmodified)
XP MCE SP3 an 8 (modified)
And Vista 64bit a 7 (on new equipment only)
and finally Vista 32bit a whopping 4.

So the point is IF you have something now, don't bother, if you are getting NEW Take the opportunity, but be sure to have Downgrade rights JUST IN CASE you get a lemon PC like often happens from vendors like HP/compaq, and Gateway. MS counts an XP downgrade as a Vista installation anyway. Gee even to MS there is no difference in their mind I guess... So what does it matter?

Same goes for OSX...say you bought the Apple computer with OSX and you never used it preferred to Linux instead but wanted Apple hardware ( I dunno why someone would do this but I am sure its happened) it still counts as an OSX sale...

Hell the same thing goes for Firefox, I could download it 10-15 times in one day because I have this funny fetish with reinstalling my OS over and over because I am bored, everyone of those would count too even though only one person is using it on the same pc.

Yeah...DOS rocks (LOL)!

I can't figure out why some guys with dual core rigs say Vista is so slow. I'll admit that with an Athlon Barton core, Vista *was* definitely slow. However, I stepped up to an Opteron 175 dual @ 2.6Ghz, and it is now extremely responsive. Previous WPA was 3.5; the upgrade kicked it up to 5.6, and that's when Vista really came alive. IMHO, you need a WPA in the low fives or better to really wake up Vista. In my application, Vista has it all over XP - in every conceivable way.

"I have this funny fetish with reinstalling my OS over and over because I am bored, everyone of those would count too even though only one person is using it on the same pc..."

OMG...I thought I was the only person who did that. I'm worried it's OCD! I know I've installed 40 Linux OS'es in the last two months..sometimes several in a day. If nothing else, an educational experience.

I just wonder when this subject will reach its nadir. I'm certainly never going to allow myself to be drawn into this morass again. Goodbye and good luck.

Thanks. Take it easy.

"Subjects get a live 10-minute demo"

Sure, when I first saw a demo of Vista, I liked it a lot. That quickly changed when I actually tried to use it.

Anti Vista trolls unite!!!

I like how people try and try to justify their bias and hatred towards Vista with long, drawn out, useless commentary and fancy rhetoric.

I've been using vista and I love it, Theres no pretty explanation anybody can give that will change that. Most people who have Vista will agree.

Vista is another Windows Millenium. Rather than trying to prove themselves right - MS should be surveying the customers to see what they do not like about Vista. They should be honest and state: Ooops - we misread the public, our apologies.
Vista is what you get when you create and test a product in a sterile environment. Combine that with a group that does not deem user input to be valuable, group of yes people and another group of theory driven employees who have not worked in high production focused business models equals an unsuccessful end result.
Vista is a resource hog, it is a Mac wannabe, it is geared to treat the public like idiots and it is over priced.
MS has the mentality of the auto dealership industry "Sell it to them whether they need it or not." We do not need a new Operating System every time MS thinks we should get one.
Why not clean up the Operating Systems so we do not have to deal with bloat, yet maintain legacy attributes for those who have special applications that require legacy Operating systems.
As large as that company is, as many brainiacs as they get from the universities - they should have a better grip on reality.

For those who disagree with the first sentences - read literature based upon continuously successful people. One of the biggest reasons for a company to fail is the lack of ability to correctly understand the audience they are appealing to.
Hello Master of Ignoring the enduser.

"Vista is another Windows Millenium"
No it is not. It has a horrible image problem and gets flack for doing things right. A better comparison is that it is like win 95.

It does use more resources but that does not mean it is a resource hog. A lot of the stuff running is designed to actually optimize your system. It does analytics to improve your experience based on how you use it. Think of it this way, using less resources can mean you are not taking advantage of your pc to do useful stuff. Technically your pc should always be doing something otherwise it's just wasting time. It only would be a problem when it impacts performance when the user is doing something.

A lot of the underlining technology is a step forward but most of the crap people yell about is front end.

The stupidest thing ms did is release 3424323 versions and probably should have lowered the price.

In my experience most user response to vista is more based on the emotional aspect then an analytical one. emotions trump logic.

this guy's blog is a good read here and there. Useful contrasts on this whole topic.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=382

"The stupidest thing ms did is release 3424323 versions and probably should have lowered the price."

the version stuff is just ms standard way of doing it lol ^^ the price could probably have been lower.

Windows XP;
Windows XP 64-bit;
Windows XP Home Edition ;
Windows XP Home Edition N;
Windows XP Media Center Edition;
Windows XP Professional Edition;
Windows XP Professional N;
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition;
Windows XP Service Pack 1; Windows XP Service Pack 2;
Windows XP Starter Edition;
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

Runs great on my system. No plans to ever go back to XP.

The rest of what you said is just crap. Mac wannabe what a joke.

No, XP is basically Home and Professional for most people. You of course need a separate 64-bit compiled version. The others are specialized releases that came about later to accomidate niche hardware configs. Some just with extra bits of software and others stripped down. In reality, not too many choices since your system or purpose will lead your right to the version you to use.

Vista's model however offers too many unnecessary choices. A home and business are all you need (of course 32 and 64-bit). No consumer confusion. Is this what kept Vista from taking off? It didn't help.

The big mistake was is that it doesn't offer businesses a compelling enough reason to justify the time and expense of upgrading software, possibly hardware, and training. To the users, there's nothing Vista can do that XP can't. On the security end it's always preferential to go with the time tested choice that you know.

You think Vista is bloated? Download and install any of the big three Linux DVD distros.
NOW you're talking bloat.

Hilarious post - another Windows Millenium? hardly....hundreds of thousands of users beta tested Vista .. guess they should have had a couple of hundred thousand more.

I have, yet, to see anything Vista offers over XP. Yeah you may say it has a new UI, but its pointless and not worth a dime to me. Why should I upgrade? Okay, I have, I am using Vista 64 Ultimate, I wanted to see if it was worth it, no it wasn't. I just formatted my laptop and put on XP Pro. I can do everything that I want to do on XP faster and cheaper, than with Vista.

No, XP is basically Home and Professional for most people.

..and Vista is basically Basic or Home premium to most people.

Nice argument. Then you bring out this doozy:

A home and business are all you need (of course 32 and 64-bit).

What XP version in your post fits that? Right, none. You forgot the XP Professional version. So I guess it's 3 basic versions for XP and 2 for Vista now..

...and of course that last whopper:

On the security end it's always preferential to go with the time tested choice that you know.

*lmao*

do you write your own material, or are you paying professional comedy writers?

Wrong

Media Center Edition = Vista Home Premium
Xp Home = Vista Basic
Xp Professional = Vista Business

The only one I can't find an equivalent for is Ultimate.

Wow, how pathetic do you have to be to pay people to promo your [almost] 2-year old OS! The damage was done 31 January 2007 when it was released. Business schools are now studying "the vista case" as it's called for its historic failure. Their only hope to save 'Windows' is to kill off legacy support. Until that happens, every computer you put a MS OS on will get slower and slower.

By the way, how's that MS-OOXML doing? Another raving failure. Keep sending cash to Redmond, lambs, and billy gates, et al. will keep spending it on diseased africans. I don't support that crap now, and never will.

Some of us make a ton of money using the platform MSFT is providing. Maybe it's me but I find it fair to pay for the service and convenience and if it helps out to cure 'diseased africans' to replace folks like you it's all the better.

OOXML has what to do with this article zaine? Oh wait, its your typical MS thread response where you bring that up! Good for you. Don't ever change.

"Wow, how pathetic do you have to be to pay people to promo your [almost] 2-year old OS! "

How bad at math do you have to be to turn 1.5 into two?

". Keep sending cash to Redmond, lambs, and billy gates, et al. will keep spending it on diseased africans. I don't support that crap now, and never will. "

What lovely and unselfish person you must be. That horrible Cratchet fellow in your sweatshop must be a horrible drain on you. Its all his fault that he doesn't wear enough clothes when the shop drops below freezing. If only he wasn't better at math than you.

Good lord...

Still trolling OXML are we?

My, you really need to find a new obsession.

wow this so reminds me of why marijuana is illeagle in the USA, its cause of the I SAID IT WAS/IS effect!

People, especially Americans are completely stupid. It's the placebo effect, all you have to do is make them think it's something else, like the study showed.

All MS did was show the ignorance and willingness of people to believe what thier so called expert relatives think of something that got a bad rap from Apple commercials.

Vista is better in every way. It's a fact.

yeah like i said before its all based on emotions rather than rational thinking. sadly no one is really immune.

Buy into stereotypes much? Brits must enjoy cross dressing, and the Germans must all be Nazis, right? Nope. Humans are pretty much the same wherever you go. Your last assertion is valid.

I could not believe what I was reading. My response to this is so negative I have no idea even where to begin!

Imeanitwasasuccessfultactic...andtheresultsspeak
forthemselves...allMicrosoftneedstodonowis
OpenUpWindowsXPSourceCodetotheWorld...watchthe
innovationflourish...peace

Someone seems to be posting in their sleep. Maybe uses Dragon Naturally and fell asleep at the desk.

Im using Vista. It better than XP every way but not on low resource computer. The feature I like the most is UAC. Its smart way to protect your PC from malware. People who say UAS suck (nag) are know how to use PC but not in the right way.

With UAC I don't need run real-time AV so no slow down my PC.

uac works well when the apps you run are desinged (correctly) for vista. These days a lot of the stuff is either written for xp or a sorta vista port. Vista is less tolerant of crap code.

Vista does not suck, its just a superfluous upgrade if you had XP MCE sp3.. Or sp 2 before it. Indeed On New machines I still say go for it. Can't hurt. And if you need a performance boost cause the manufactures sold you a bill of goods with a crapy PC, then there is still XP to handle your needs out there... Otherwise Enjoy Vista...

My reaction to a so called windows 7 presentation that was actually Vista would have been.. and What makes that any different from what I got right now on XP? Oh a little added security module that should have been in the Security patches of the existing OS but wasn't. OK well thats not going to make me fly out to go get Windows 7 either if thats all it is going to be. More window dressing. Pun intended...

Vista was just that Window dressing. Essentially everything in it short of the Kernal upgrade and security module can be done on XP and in some cases even on Windows 2000.

I have shown numerous times the new interface on XP that makes it look like Vista, DX10 on XP (hacked of course), Aeroglass equivalent or better on XP, Sidebar on XP, Search bar (which I hate) IE 7 on XP, Media player 11 on xp (why IDK but you can), and so on and so on. Defender on xp, windows live one care on XP, The new interfaces from Vista on XP via 3rd party add ons, Vista like backgrounds on XP, Vista like Icon packs and upgrades for XP, again 3rd party created.

Add to that the added peripherals that are out there for XP, with better backwards compatibility, and all the business software that works in XP already.

So IMHO and thats all it is Just an opinion. All Vista is, is another 1 box fits all solution provided by Microsoft that kinda leaves out the people unwilling to shell out extra money to make it work more efficiently or too lazy to update their old OS to look better themselves.

Vista 64bit was Ideal, and really should have been the only market for this OS. I can pretty much guarantee Windows 7 will be just that. I think MS learned enough from that particular bloody nose the took for their Uncooperative OEM vendors. They insisted they didn't want stuck with all these 32 bit systems that could not run Vista well, so they got MS to essentially Lie about it and in turn now MS is at fault for their claims.

So No Vista does not suck. its a good OS for the equipment its built for. Go use it if you got it. But short of that, just continue with XP and do the graphical enhancements MS should have provided to you in a update yourself and get your XP MCE looking like a fresh new OS that even the MS reps say Ahh look at that. Hey Thats not Vista!! How did you get it doing that?

OK rant over. But it wasn't really a rant. I like Vista, as long as its on a brand new 64 bit machine power house. Otherwise I stick with XP MCE.

I laugh with every "Vista sucks on my 386sx" post. That's usually followed up with "I am going with OS-X"
Yeah, haven't spent money on hardware since Monica was a virgin and suddenly gonna spring for a Mac.
Just to 'show' Microsoft.

Been running Vista here on two machines since it was available. Had my family who used to call for support install Vista. I've had zero Vista related problems and haven't gotten the weekend "Can you drop by and look at my computer?" calls from the family in a long while either.
Vista runs well, better than XP on my systems. But then, I don't run 1995 hardware.

running on a amd x2 3800 and gf 7800gtx and 2 gigs of ram with no issues. It is showing it's age though. Biggest mistake I did is use nvidias onboard raid controller (which is really not hardware raid). Its performance sux compared to intel's on chip.

I've been using Vista for a year+ now, and few problems I've had (of course I got the UAC turned off) but is like, 32bit of VISTA only supports up to 3GB of RAM, like I mean that's fine on laptops, but who now only puts like 3GB of RAM on their main machines? Also when you're playing legacy games, you have to set the program to "Run as Administrator" and also sometimes set the program to run in "Emulate mode like for XP". Last, still couple of driver problems for really old, or non-supportive devices, so sometimes you have to edit the install.ini to manuall insert VISTA in there to fake the OS to install the thing. But otherwise it's damn fine.

I really don't get why are people complaining much about VISTA. Right now I got VISTA set up as my main gaming machine and my main trading machine, and XP as my server box (of course Apache, no IIs), but yeah. Other than that, there's not much change, and I like esp. how VISTA puts the user folder on root of C default, instead of some deep folder inside Documents and Settings. (Btw, I play online games on all machines, so people who want to complain why don't I have a Linux server box setup, go search around how many new online MMORPGs support linux out of the box). The only reason I haven't upgraded by server box to Vista is trying to reinstall and reconfigure all those server related crap takes way too much time.

So people here saying how good XP is, I agree that XP is a great OS now (now that Microsoft kept making patches for it for like 7 years), but move on, VISTA is DEFINITELY a LOT better than XP gold, and I'd say it's on par with XP SP2 except it requires a tad bit more system resources.

and yeah, UAC sucks. Even if you're trying to test out a VISTA machine, turn it off FIRST, or if you worry about viruses, install a Virus scanner, then turn it off. It's really annoying if you got it turned on on your home machine.

but is like, 32bit of VISTA only supports up to 3GB of RAM, like I mean that's fine on laptops, but who now only puts like 3GB of RAM on their main machines?

Dude?

That's a limitation of 32-bit, not Vista. *NO* 32bit system supports more than that.

and yeah, UAC sucks. Even if you're trying to test out a VISTA machine, turn it off FIRST, or if you worry about viruses, install a Virus scanner, then turn it off. It's really annoying if you got it turned on on your home machine.

...or leave it on and notice that it doesn't pop up more than once a week or so (if that) once you've got your system configured and all your apps installed.

I believe Windows 2000 Professional supported more than 4GB of RAM through PAE so it's not a limitation of all 32-bit operating systems. There's really no reason that Microsoft couldn't have left the same PAE support in Windows XP and 32-bit Vista.

PC_Tool, I left it on for three months when I first installed it, because I wanted to test out what happens.

Things I've learned.
1. Certain online games have "security measures" to prevent you from running cheat programs while running the game. Apparently UAC is very unhappy with that thing, and pops up a notice every like 5 minute telling me, do I really want to run the program.

2. Somehow Windows update clears all the settings that I've set, and I have to click on remember it again.

3. For some of the major programs or anti-virus stuff, updates work fine, but basically most time your program gets a little update, be ready to click on the accept thing again.

4. UAC's interface is annoying. It dims your screen and halts everything and only allows you click on that thing. Yes, it's great security wise, but I have tons of work going on, and basically I have to halt all work to go ahead and figure out what program is wanting me to accept again. (I mean I could just go ahead and click ACCEPT without reading what program is running, but that'd lose the point of UAC

Although I'd say, as for right now,
I'd still prefer XP over VISTA on laptops unless you got one of those 17 inch laptops that you don't planning on carrying around.

PAE is like EMS memory was in the 80s. It's paged in and out of main memory (using some of the main 3GB as a buffer). While it's in some cases better (IE: if you don't have applications that do large memory reads / writes) it's a very inefficient way to manage memory.

If you want to really take advantage of more than 3-4GB of memory you need a 64bit OS, a 64bit host, and 64bit applications.

1. I would say that's not a uac thing but bad game design

NO* 32bit system supports more than that.

Minor correction. 32-bit Server OS's can, but they need more than one processor to do it.

Yeah I don't have auto updates on. I want to review these things. But that Defender bothers me every single time with UAC when it wants to download a virus update annoys me a lot. UAC should be clever enough to LEARN after over a year that I friggin want to update this thing.

yeah, but somehow those well programmed game sucks, and these badly programmed games are fun.

Microsoft, start listening to what people want in an OS and stop the guessing game in your boardroom or bathroom wherever these decisions come from.

Vista sucks. Admit it. Live with it and Move on to fix it.

Do not worry, Apple is not far behind. As far as I'm concerned Mac OS X is equally as slow and bloated with each passing day.

XP was the clear winner. Make MINOR changes to it to bring it up to 2009 and bring it back as a new Lean and Fast OS. The keyword is MINOR change. Not changing the entire toolbar or 50% of the features of a program. We don't want to go back to school to learn how to use a computer.

Oh and by the way just incase you didn't know it, UAC sucks and viruses still get in. So its actually useless. Please no more shameware in your OS. Remember Lean and Fast.

Need any more tips, feel free to email me. I'll give you more free tips.

Another cheap a** who refuses to get with the times and realize Vista is better in ever way.

You sound like a huge loser who doesn't know s*** about Vista because you don't own it. I would neve go back to XP after buying 3 Vista HP's.

It's not for stupid people which is why you struggle. Not all of us have 180 IQ's.

If you think an OS that crashes once in a blue moon and is less susceptible to malware and viruses sucks then maybe you should go back to DOS. The only way that Vista could be improved would be to add a relational file system (like the obscure Pick OS did). Whoever made the decision to cancel this project was a complete idiot.

It normally doesn't cost too much to upgrade the hardware in a computer to make it suitable for Vista. If it does your computer is obsolete and probably should have been replaced a long time ago.

Here's a free tip for you: Why don't you get an eee PC? Sounds like it's all you need and would be happy with.

I have used Vista first hand so I believe my negative impressions of it to be valid ;-)

They had them run Vista on a powerful machine with a good graphics card and 2 gigs of RAM - under those conditions, Vista runs fine (although UAC can be annoying). A fairer test would be to take a bargain $400 Best Buy laptop and show the same machine to users with Vista and with XP. In that comparison, I expect most would pick XP.

Yeah..

The "fair" test is to run it on crap hardware.

*shakes head*

Gotta love the MSFT bashers. You guys couldn't produce more twisted logic if you tried.

Well that's what people buy. Mum and dad shoppers go and buy the $400 Dell/HP/Acer/etc craptop that comes standard with 512MB or maybe 1GB of RAM. It then has Vista Premium installed, with crappy onboard graphics and about enough bloatware to give you 100 processes running after boot.

Maybe that's not Microsoft's fault but in the end people are still buying computers that don't support Vista. 2GB of RAM really should be a minimum for it - OR the option to buy one from a big-name manufacturer without the CRAPWARE and slow AV products.

"2GB of RAM really should be a minimum for it"

2GB of RAM "IS" a minimum, this is common knowledge ... true, I dont expect older folk to know this but really $400 for a laptop running vista? ... call f***ing customer assistant!

"Vista runs fine (although UAC can be annoying)."

If you think you know what you are doing most of the time.. just turn it off. If you don't know how then use google.

No. I tested it with 512MB of RAM one day just to see if it worked. It did.

Might be my Raptor drive, but it was not nearly as slow as I expected it to be. It ran much better with 1GB of RAM, and with 2GB it made a difference once I started gaming of course, but surfing the web and checking email? No problems with just 1GB of RAM.

Running an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ on a Socket 939 platform FYI...

A simple observation of the memory usage is enough to understand what it requires:

On this laptop, without antivirus and not much 3rd party additions going on, after launch it already shows using almost 1GB of RAM. (This implies, obviously, that less than this and the laptop would go crap).
But as important is how much more efficient Vista is with RAM: The available memory is always used for cache, so as much RAM you have, as much it will be used to cache data from disk (this can be seen in the task manager). That's why it is important to have a good amount of RAM with it, since it's going to use it all.

I can see why people say it is bloatware. I've also got a PC where I installed XP SP3 and customized it, and it doesn't even use 300MB of RAM while I'm browsing webpages. (I gave half of my RAM to a friend because I literally wasn't using it).
Vista needs 3 times as much.

Also, i don't see why people complain that much about UAC. I run this laptop with UAC, and with an unprivileged account. That's the way it is supposed to be run. You want to install a program? obviously you have to give the admin password. You want to modify a special folder? (windows, program files, root of C:, another user's folder...), you have to give the password, since you're not supposed to do it.
The only problem, really, is legacy software. I.e software that was designed believing that a windows user equals an admin user. Some newer software i've seen that ask for admin password here and there (for example, an online game, everytime asks for it, so it can install updates). This is not vista's problem. it's a game design problem.

I guess that what UAC may be missing is something like the "set UID root" linux/unix filesystem mode, so that a way to make some applications run as root by default without the need to provide the password for it, and probably, an equivalent of sudo (i.e. give your own password, not that of the admin) as a way to autenticate the action which is going to happen.

Said that, Vista still needs to improve, (windows) explorer crashes randomly when browsing folders (i don't have codecs installed, so it's not that) and my wireless driver sometimes get stuck and i have to disable/enable it again. (guess we could add this to another of the "drivers issues").

the $400 Dell/HP/Acer/etc craptop that comes standard with 512MB or maybe 1GB of RAM. It then has Vista Premium installed,

Absolute BS.

I dare you to find such a product advertised and currently available on any of their websites.

Considering the rest of your post is based on that BS...we'll just leave it.

A quick look on tiger direct shows you would be wrong...

http://www.tigerdirect.c...gory_slc.asp?CatId=2510

Vista basic seems to be a standard 1 gb while premium appears to be 2 gb.

Sheer desperation.

Even their mighty PR machine, once legendary, has slipped if it's resorting to this rubbish.

Sad.

And irrelevant to the fate of the lame-duck OS.

Oh, and Tool, if you're reading this:

Another upgrade back to XP this last weekend, this time a brand new HP desktop.

And the band played on...

I wish this was of concern to me.

Use it because your friends like it.

Gee, if Zima could give away samples and a fair number thought it was "OK", would I drink it?

The line I find VERY interesting is: "We have 89 percent satisfied or very satisfied, and 83 percent of those customers would recommend it to friends, family, et cetera."

So 5% of the folks who they tout as being so happy with it would not recommend it?

Now THAT'S a compelling endorsement! I would have thought that they would have conveniently let that discrepancy lay hidden somewhere.

Heck, Brussel sprouts and beets are "OK", but they would not be my first choice given ANY other option of vegetables!

But really folks, its "OK". ...Not enough to necessarily recommend it to my friends, but...

Now that's a resounding endorsement...

I'm underwhelmed... ;-)

As an ex-vista hater... I have to say that honestly, I wasnt willing to use it after all the negative press and negativity I'd heard about it. Coincidence happened to change that. I attended a developer conference and got a free copy of ultimate. This coincided with me doing a yearly FF&R. For the amusement I went with vista, expecting fully to despise it. That was about 6 months ago and I am still running that vista install and other than some minor issues (lack of gameport support, the bas****s), I love it and am not going back to xp or linux as my primary OS.

I was kind of expecting it to be a bad experience also.. but after using first the 32 bit and after sp1 64-bit version I wouldn't go back to xp.

In the beginning it was a little rough, with bluescreens and things.. probably bad drivers had their share of the blame, but after SP1 and 64-bit it started to get better and now its really good.

sad, very sad

This was part of a new Microsoft marketing drive codenamed "FTP"..which I'm guessing means "Fool The People" (or possibly something less polite). Basically, Microsoft rounds up a bunch of users who are so out of the loop they don't know Vista when they see it, and gives them ten minutes with a demo of Vista - not free reign, mind you, but clearly something controlled and monitored. Its a safe bet that not a single one of these victims had actually used this OS before receiving their ten minutes of MS window dressing. And this is supposed to change the minds of anyone who actually experienced the ultrafail that is Vista? Wow.

I like the way you summed it up, mentioning the concerning points...

Q: Where's the merit of it?
A: Well, it's a good marketing show for the non-techie people.

If I were there I would have demanded a copy to take home and try out to see how it actually worked in the real world.

In other words M$ lied to them..... This is no different than those canned news events put on by the military.

Did they actually get to use "Mojave" over an extended period or were they just shown a video of it?

Maybe they just liked the different look of it?

And if they liked the different look, why isn't that the way Vista looks or acts?

I'm anxiously awaiting these videos and I want to see if they show anything significant other than gui effects... i.e. My perfectly functional Sony S85 camera works on every MS OS in the past 10+ years, but doesn't with Vista, how can Vista help me?

upgrade your camera lol, i mean when was the last time u tried ur camera... vista sp1 works great, i been on vista since rtm... i used to dual boot with xp pro, but since last 9 months i reformated and got rid of xp for good.. no need for it.

Just how did you get this cam 3 years before they started selling it? July 01 it was announced
Someone said that these people probably have not used Vista yet---but that is the point that most people that badmouth Vista have never used it or they would know that it is the best. Almost 1and1/2 years and never a BSOD

It's *no* different than old "replacing the coffee with folgers" bit.

You guys are just whinging on about it because it's actually pretty clever. They don't get the benefit of all the anti-Vista BS.

Maybe they just liked the different look of it?

Yeah....cuz that's a bad thing. ;)

You're blaming Vista because your camera doesn't work with it blame sony for not updating their drivers.

Perhaps Microsoft should delay the next version of windows by a couple years and release it on a couple Blu-Ray disks with with Microsoft patched drivers and software patches so that every device or every program ever released will be compatible./sarcasm

There's a reason why everyone loved XP when it was released, and there is a reason why everyone hates Vista.

"Yeah....cuz that's a bad thing. ;) "

Show Without Blow always is.

"There's a reason why everyone loved XP"

I take it you weren't there. Not everyone loved it. I liked it but many did not. Some still use Widows 2000 they disliked XP so much.

"and there is a reason why everyone hates Vista. "

You and the rest of the trolls do not constitute everyone. Many don't like it. Many do. Even on this thread. Try counting. If you get past one person liking it than its not everyone.

Sure are a lot of people on this thread that are mathematically challenged.

Everyone Loved XP???!?

See kids? This is why you don't do drugs..