This reminds me of what a some journalists were saying in the late 90's, hardware becomes obsolete, we are seeing this now with cheap computers and OS will become a chaep convenience (Unix, Linux, etc.). Of course, MS is fighting for its cash cow and will slowly have to give away Windows since not a lot of people buy OEMs versions of it. You can only hold a monopoly for so long.

One good thing about a tightening market is that it pushes complacent companies to finally think outside the box and innovate a bit.

Pay as you go is interesting but hasn't proven the El Dorado it promised. Phone users have to use phone and the bells and whistles are compelling enough to pay a ot. TV pay as you go never really took off, too expensive and little to offer. It looks like computers for this market segment at least will be in the middle.

And you need two sorts of people, optimists and pssimists so that the third type can make up their minds. Cheer up, you can't tell people what to think. You are only what one person thinks. :)

It's so frustrating that people tend to see the dark side of everything but NEVER the light side.
There are people out there who have nasty, nasty credit, for whatever the reason. See those people with Tracfones? or Pay-As-You-Go cell phones? Maybe not even nasty credit, but no credit? Or just don't want to use credit. In this instance, countries that don't move on the same credit wavelength as the U.S (and thus, no credit really). They're not telling those of us who have $20,000 credit line cards to jump on this plan, because ofcourse - it's not for us. It's for people who don't know when they're getting some money. And I don't think it's a half bad idea.
Ofcourse so many are thinking, yeah I'll get it and just circumvent the system - well yeah, you do that, and spoil it for those who need it.
Now I'm not saying it's an Angelic, innocent deal - because by doing this, MS is ensuring a foothold in markets that wouldn't even be existing in the first place.
But all in all, I don't think it's something to curse at MS about.

*It's so frustrating that people tend to see the dark side of everything but NEVER the light side. *

Are we talking about the force, or computers?

*There are people out there who have nasty, nasty credit, for whatever the reason. See those people with Tracfones? or Pay-As-You-Go cell phones? Maybe not even nasty credit, but no credit? Or just don't want to use credit. In this instance, countries that don't move on the same credit wavelength as the U.S (and thus, no credit really). They're not telling those of us who have $20,000 credit line cards to jump on this plan, because ofcourse - it's not for us. It's for people who don't know when they're getting some money. And I don't think it's a half bad idea. *

Yes, and this system is for those people, very good point.

*Ofcourse so many are thinking, yeah I'll get it and just circumvent the system - well yeah, you do that, and spoil it for those who need it.*

Another thing people don't do, is think. MS has been testing this in Brazil for over a year, and before that I am sure they thought this whole thing through. Its not a simply as replacing the OS, which would circumvent the system. Let's not forget, that some of these people WANT to rebuild a good history with a company, and they wouldn't want to mess things up, so they most likely won't try to circumvent the system, because they are given a chance where no one else would give them a chance, I don't think they would look a gift horse in the mouth.

Also, MS put there name on this, but its NOT their idea, they have the big name, and ultimately the OS is theirs, but some finance company pitched it to MS, and MS is making it possible. And many companies collaborated on the planning and installation, so those other companies should be given credit as well.

Operating System is an essential service just like Electricity, Cable, Water, Transport etc. You need to pay for it - let it be payasuGo or onetime purchase. The OS Pricing should not be a purchase decision for the Computer Owners just as they won't do with Electicity requirements for it. If one requires an O/S service as free as common Air(not taxed yet)-opt for Linux Distributions.
The release concept of the O/S is better replaced with just security and feature updates done incrementally as we are not forseeing any major change in frameworks or architectures as with 98 vs. XP.

Cable TV is an essential service?

Ok... So lets say I get a pay as you go computer and put linux on it.. Can I then just use it since I'm only paying to use the Microsoft operating system? They make it sound like you can just pay for cards and use it whenever you feel like it... "The buyer signs a 24-month contract with the network operator for broadband Internet services. The payments for internet services reimburse the network operator for the balance of the PC cost." and also... "An individual makes an initial down payment of 20% of the total purchase price." I actually recall this happening back in the year 2000.... Places like Staples getting everyone to sign up for 3 years of MSN and giving a $300 credit towards a computer purchase... Sounds fishy to me.. Signing up for premium internet service will end up costing more in the long run... Especially since you are locked into the rate for 3 years... oh well...

You are completely missing the entire point here. The computer is made available to people to use, because credit prevented them from buying a computer. All you see is a computer, and since its pay as you go, you perceive it as "free" game on anything you want. Most people that enter this plan are limited income, low income, and they are NOT technically saavy. So they neither care, or would they know how to install Linux.

MS is giving them the ability to get their credit back in shape, because you can use them as a reference.

The staples reference, isn't even in the same ballpark as this, you paid for MSN up front, for 3 years. These are LOW income people with NO credit, so stuff like that isn't feasible.

And yes, since they are a higher risk, the computer would cost more than a computer if you had good credit or the cash to buy one outright. This is appealing to low income, poor credit households. Most of them are third world countries..

But its better than NOT getting anything, where plans like this don't exist. Before this pay as you go came along, a new computer was not even an OPTION.

That is what "trusted computing" is all about. When you are wringing money out of poor people they become untrustworthy. So Microsoft is developing software and hardware that they can trust.

I doubt you will be able to access boot sectors or partition tables on these machines. If you change the HDD or use a live CD it will not boot. I would expect cases welded shut or at least tamper resistant faseners.

By the way you can get a hex driver with all the tamper resistant heads at Sears. It's really handy if you can't resist tinkering with things when the Man doesn't want you to.

Hey Microsoft can you see my middle finger facing towards you... its for the stinking activation and pay-as-you go...
One word... Stickit!

Microsoft aren't your parents, you can't expect them to buy you a computer too.

Wow, that was very mature. And you evidently didn't read the article. It doesn't say its for EVERY computer, its only for certain people.

Do you have a oomputer? Obviously you must, because you are able to post.. So don't worry about it.

Wow, you know i was poor for a while. At the time, i did a little thing called "save" a little here and there, then eventually PRESTO i bought a computer.

Imagine that??? SHOCKING!!!

Oh BTW, i'm getting a patent on "saving" so i will sue anyone in the future who tries it.

So you never bought anything on credit? Well, you would be in the minority if you did, the majority of people are in debt on the average of 20,000 dollars.

MANY people by things on time, and if they need a computer, what is the big deal? Does this affect you? NO. So don't worry about it. Obviously you pay cash for stuff, well aren't you so fiscal conscious.

"So you never bought anything on credit?"
nope

"well aren't you so fiscal conscious"
yep

Well then this doesn't apply to you does it? So maybe you can read the article for what it is, and realize this doesn't apply to you.

You're Welcome Microsoft!

Pay as you go? Thats NOT new... When it comes to Micro-slop software and the like, we ALL pay for it as we go!

Was that supposed to be funny?

Don't quit your day job.

it was a little funny

Please stop picking people up on lame jokes, you make PLENTY of them and usually everyone lets you get away with it.

was that supposed to be funny? You need to work on your posting too. At least I post something, and not make stupid replies to people, just to look like some super hero.

No rijp... you just rip on people and post paragraphs of "research" that most of us skip over. You're a habitual over-poster with too many opinions. Your opition isnt required on every posts here! Certainly if you can post the crap YOU do then I can lighten the mood with a joke. Nuff Said!

Now smile and be happy. (It was probably the micro-slop comment that set him off stock holders can be so moody lol).

Great. So don't read them. Or post more, who cares.

Habitual. Interesting, I think you are jealous you have ZIP to say. I don't see anyone else complaining.

I don't own stock, dweeb. But thanks for the financial advice, what are you some amateur consultant?

This looks a lot like the PeoplePC scam.

Free computer, we lock you in for 2 years of overpriced internet access, thus making a huge net margin on the total package.

It did get a lot of folks PCs who'd've™ never had one, but they ended up getting sued in the end.

(Did ya catch the double-abbreviation there? Gonna make that my 'Thang'™)

've's euphimisms by PC_Tool.

Copyright and Trademark are protected by the EPA, FTC, run dmc, HOV, monkey see, from sea to shining sea, wii wii, oui oui, and the LMNOP.

Any re-write, comments, or use of the said euphimisms without the expressed written or verbal consent of PC_Tool or his direct employs, is strictly prohibited by law. Applies where allowed, supplies are limited, not available in all areas, may require additional resources, only in participating Beta New forums, and only when including the official PC_Tool signature. Any other provisions not withstanding, all previous forms of agreement, are prohibited by law, except where they are non-invalidated.

PC_Tool is a self-registered trade mark. Not to be used with any other coupons or offers.

've's: some assembly required.

Copyright and Trademark are protected by the EPA, FTC, run dmc, HOV, monkey see, from sea to shining sea, wii wii, oui oui, and the LMNOP.

You forgot TCP and IP.

Oh darnit.. those would have been good...

You didn't comment on the run dmc.. your homies go yo' six!

You didn't comment on the run dmc

I try to avoid doing such things.

get ubuntu its freeeeee, and they ship Cd's free of cost.
Pre paid is a nice idea, but what is this device going to cost.In third world countries its a big deal to buy a pc. What they need is super cheap computing device, once people buy the hardware they simply don't like to spend money on software.
Piracy is a big deal in such countries, people will simply buy the full featured pirated version free of cost.

But my advice is that we all should move over to good distros like ubuntu, before M$ starts charging on the basis of time.

*But my advice is that we all should move over to good distros like ubuntu, before M$ starts charging on the basis of time.*

Where did you read in this article, that MS would charge ALL computers on the basis of time?

Your comprehension skills need some work.

Lets see...I can call up Microsoft and get a crippled MSN terminal for around $30/month, or I can pay Dell or Gateway the same and get a full-blown PC that does anything I tell it to. You do the math.

you are missing the point. Dell or Gateway doesn't take BAD CREDIT or pre-paid cards.

*YOU* may be able to call up gateway and dell and get what you want, but people with low income, bad credit, or can't quality for a dell or gateway credit, CAN'T call them, that's why THEY need this alternative.

I'm surprised Dell doesn't take people with bad credit considering they charge 25-30 percent interest regardless of your credit score.

Ah, really.. well that's very interesting.. I think the Klingon high council must have been doing some real good pipe smoking that day, because that is not even TRUE!

That is a complete falsehood. First of all DELL doesn't extend credit, the Bank of America does, for DELL. Secondly, maybe people you know got charged 25-30% because their credit score sucks. Third, even 25-30% is extremely high and even bad credit cards don't charge interest rates THAT high, so try to come up with better fiction than that, and quit watching star trek episodes, because your grip on reality is slipping.

Two years ago the bank Dell was using did charge 25-30 percent interest even to people with a credit score above 750. Maybe things have changed for the better since then.

For those of you that don't know how to read or do research on your own, here is some info:

*Hardware
• Computer Use Metering. System components within the hardware allow for tracking computer use time, based on minutes of use or a specific end-date, as defined in the provisioning data that is independent of the operating system.

• Metering Policy Enforcement. When all of the available computer time has been used, access to the PC is limited until more time is added. Metering policy is also enforced when there are signs that the system has been tampered with.

• Anti-tampering Measures: These include hardware security technologies that make it inconvenient or costly for an individual to tamper with the components that meter computer usage. These features reduce the risk to those financing the payments over time for the PC.

Software

• Interfaces to the Provisioning Server System. New interfaces have been created to connect the operating system to the Microsoft FlexGo provisioning server system in a secured manner.

• Local Provisioning System. An operating system component, called the Local Provisioning System, has been added to enable metered use of the computer and to provide mechanisms to apply metering rules.

• User Interface and Notifications. Updates were made to the user interface to help users with the new tasks related to pay-as-you-go and subscription usage. These updates include an activation and "add time" wizard, notifications to keep track of the remaining time, and a "limited access mode" that allows users to add time even if they have used all of their available PC usage time.*

Very interesting. Thanks for doing the research, rijp. I wonder how long it will take crackers, et al, to do mods and "break" the system. Not because they *have to* (i.e. for financial reasons), but because of the challenge involved. With a Tracphone, I'm assuming that it hasn't been done, or at least is extremely rare, because of the size of the componentry, and because they're not PC-technology based. But a PC platform and MS Operating System will probably be too much of a temptation for a lot of techie folks...

I think this is a horrible idea. Like nobody will just reload the entire OS and get past it.

It would be one thing to offer a free PC but just half price? The person would be better off just getting a used PC from a friend or from ebay or something.

Dumb.

It's not dumb. What if people WANT to buy a new PC? How exactly would they finance it? Are you going to loan them the money?

I didn't think so. They can now buy one if they want one.. but since they don't have the credit to buy one, and you won't loan them the money, this is the next best thing.

What's wrong with it?

And you must be stupid if think they NEVER thought people would reload the OS if that's all it took to circumvent the process. Maybe some people would, and that's why things like this COST more, because people are ALWAY's trying to rip off the system, thanks to THOSE people, insurance is high, credit card rates are high, hotel rooms are high.. Yeah, thanks!

LOL......

*pointing finger at you*

"look at him, he's got his panties in a bunch."

Yep, you're right, I'm stupid. I like it when people start name calling because that's the best they can think of. :)

I would have loaned them the money, but since you just yelled at me, then forget it. :)

Yelled at you? What are we in time out? you said it was stupid, I said it wasn't stupid. How do you call that name calling?

Are you paranoid? you weren't going to loan him the money in the FIRST place!

LOL.

I love getting you fired up. :D

You're so easy...

Fired up? haha.. that's what you think! You aren't enough substance enough for me, to get fired up. Immediately following an article, I don't even pay attention to what I write, and I leave it on the page, it doesn't go with me.

So if you think you are getting me worked up, lathered up, fired up, or any other up, you are SADLY mistaken, sorry to spoil your fun.

I reply, not only to you, but to OTHERS on this post, so its still a valid point.

Word. :)

LOL...

:)

Dude, you are not an idiot. I value your comments, so take that. I know you are busting my balls..

You only like him because he thinks Google™ is the Devil. :P

Of course! That's my obviated google-ized partner!

*An example of how pay-as-you-go computing works:

1. An individual purchases a PC by making an initial payment equivalent to one-third of the total cost. A third party financial institution pays the retailer the remaining cost of the PC on the buyer's behalf.

2. The buyer agrees to purchase 800 hours of time on their PC at a low hourly rate - they can add time as frequently or as infrequently as they choose and take as long as they need to purchase the hours. The cost of the 800 hours covers the re-payment to the financial institution (including interest).

3. Hours of PC usage can be conveniently purchased over time through a variety of distribution channels, including convenience stores (scratch cards), ATMs, Point of Sale networks and the internet.

4. Once 800 hours of usage time is purchased, no additional payments are required to use the PC.*

*Why so many people are buying pay-as-you-go PCs:
• They are already familiar and comfortable with the pay-as-you-go payment model - 29% of people in emerging markets already use prepaid mobile phones.
• They can get a full-featured, mainstream PC with genuine Microsoft software at an affordable entry price - without having to compromise on quality for their families.
• They can pay for the PC as they use it - an approach they consider to be both fair and flexible

*An example of how subscription computing works:
Microsoft's subscription computing program helps more people around the world gain access to a complete personal computing solution. As with pay-as-you-go computing, it lowers the entry costs involved in buying a PC and adds a convenient fixed-payment plan. Here's one example:

• An individual makes an initial down payment of 20% of the total purchase price.

• The buyer signs a 24-month contract with the network operator for broadband Internet services. The payments for internet services reimburse the network operator for the balance of the PC cost.
• At the completion of the contract, the subscriber owns the PC and can elect to continue their broadband service from the network operator.
• Typical monthly cost for a PC is affordable for most middle-income families*

I guess this will work like the pay-as-you go mobile phone/gas/electricity where no up-front payments are replaced with higher regular charges.

Everytime this means the poorest will be ripped off! Microsoft the loan shark (Microshark?)

Dude, why does MS always rip people off? What the hell is your problem? Pre-paid phone, buy here / pay here, rent-to-own, they *ALL* use the same strategy, don't start this MS is taking advantage of the poor people crap, if they didn't *OFFER* this to credit challenged and poor people, they wouldn't EVEN HAVE a computer.

They are high risk, and once you BUY the computer, there is not guarantee they will keep PAYING to KEEP the computer.

Secure credit cards charge a high finance rate, giving people a chance to re-establish credit, but they have to SHOW where they keep up with payments. The finance company takes ALL the risk, by giving people some credit, so in that case, they should be allowed to make some of their money back. Its NOT like these people won't know the finance charge UP FRONT, so how exactly are they being ripped off? If they offer them something at a lower interest rate, then raise it unexpectedly, THAT would be a rip off. Otherwise, people in this situation know they have little choice, and WHY they are being charged a higher finance rate.

MS isn't loansharking, they are trying to extend a computer to people who can't afford one, or have the credit to buy one. That's ALL. Everytime MS wants to do something, its greed, everytime someone else wants to do something, its just a newcomer to the free enterprise market. Those other utilities and companies, ALL charge a high (30%) interest rate, its the same thing here.

MS may be BACKING this idea, but some Finance company is PAYING for it, NOT MS, so quit bashing them for something they are only putting their name on.

Interesting, how about when they wipe out the operating system, and reinstall a free O/S i.e. Linux? Does that mean you got a PC for free ?

Heh...

I hope they're smarter than that...

I think you pay for most of the hardware. The pre-paid cards are used more to pay for the software. They wouldn't just hand you the hardware for free and hope that you buy some pre-paid time at some point.

Why would it be any different? Its just how you finance a computer. Otherwise its YOUR computer.

They can do whatever they want to the computer, its a rent to own strategy.

Cell phone carriers already hand people hardware which is substantially subsidized, in exchange for 1-2 year service agreements, or otherwise being locked into the carrier's prepaid service.

Even $400 phones would actually cost $700 if not subsidized by the carrier. That's why all GSM and CDMA phones purchased from a carrier, including non-prepaid models, are "locked" to the carrier with an MSL code (Manufacturer Subsidy Lock) and why you see "unlocking" products and services being sold on the black market.

Have you never heard the razors vs. razor blades concept? It's incredibly common for companies to hand over hardware which they "could" lose money on, but the odds are that anyone who receives one of these computers will want to use it enough, over time, to make it worthwhile.

If you would simply read the information readily available at the links in this article, you would see that FlexGo is essentially financing the cost of BOTH the hardware and software, and the hardware has special measures built in to enforce this arrangement, including anti-tampering measures.

Stop being so quick to characterize this is a "Micro$uck" expensive software issue; it's simply ADDITIONAL CHOICE being offered to consumers. It doesn't reduce any choices that consumers have today, and it doesn't take advantage of people any more or less than existing prepaid communications services or rent-to-own appliance/furniture sales.

While I suppose I can't blame 'em for trying....

Is it just me, or does this sound incredibly, unbelievably, and patently absurd to anyone else?

Well...I've always thought pay as you go cellular was overpriced but it continues to thrive. I'd like to learn more about the said successful year long trial in Brazil.

No, I think this is a good idea to generate more revenue as long as the price point is right. Besides generating revenue, the people who cannot afford to buy or use a computer will now be able to assuming that the subscription is low enough that they can pay it. We're just biased and see this as being absurd due to the fact that we can buy a computer and do not have a time limit to use it. Just my 2 cents.

I don't believe it's just you. I guess other companies are supporting this program though so I sometimes wonder about Microsoft.

I'm kind of skeptical about this program, really.

you missed a line..

*The driving idea behind the program is to offer full-featured PCs in regions where lack of credit, low income and high costs restrict individuals from purchasing a computer. Consumers will essentially pay for the PC as they use it by purchasing computer time on prepaid cards.*

That what this is aimed at, why leave those people out, just because they don't have the money or the credit to buy a full featured computer? This is their chance.. Its like like pre-paid phones and rent-to-own for furniture.. no big deal.

Never said I saw anything wrong with it.

Just thought it odd. Of course, I should also state I think the whole pre-paid phone-card scam is absurd as well.

But alas, it seems the vast majority of the world is not in agreement.

Stupid vast majority.

D'oh!

(Besides, what do you know. You didn't even know what Yggdrasil was. Sheesh...)

If it has to do with Linux, Unix, AS/400, MAC OSX, or any open source stuff, no. I basically could care less about anything that ISN'T Microsoft, I ignore it or abhore it, either way you want to look at it.

So no, what 'sil program that is, I am not interested.. If its Windows, or hardware technology, I maintain a high level of knowlegde and content, even PDA and games.

My brain is only so big (probably puny if Fewt has anything to say about it) but it suits me, I just don't want to fill it with inconsequential stuff.

Lemme see if I got this right.

To paraphrase:

...Linux, Unix, AS/400, MAC OSX, or any open source stuff...is...inconsequential stuff.

That about sum it up in your world?

*grin*

I should'a been a journalist.

hmm..let me review..

-whisper, reads, muses...-

Ya! I think you got it!

Those products, are a SMALL fraction of the world.

"probably puny if Fewt has anything to say about it"

Damn it man, I'm not that mean.

Wait, yeah I am, well but not today.

heh

It's just not right for you. I think it will be the turning point in PC ownership, where the remaining 20% (or whatever) in the US who don't have a computer with Internet access at home perhaps finally will. I will also be another step forward toward PC/Internet ubiquity in developing countries.