pffft
if it takes me 12 hours to write a small batch of scripts that gets me a new computer, that seems like a good deal to me.

Anything that ends the dominance of the crap called internet explorer from the scum of the earth-microsoft is welcome. defecate in bill gates mouth

Mmm... peanuts...

they make millions you get offered peanuts

Top prize is an Alienware Aurora?

I wouldn't lift even my pinky to code for such a paltry reward.

Programmers: Wake the hell up! You're worth more than baseball caps and logo t-s***s!

Someone develops an extension that adds two menu items that allow a page to be display in IE instead of FF... and that deserves more than an iPod, book, or computer?

Sounds like someone is overpaid... must be a consultant.

This is a list of offered prizes. Do you even bother to read the articles or just make off the cuff inane comments?

From the site:

Mozilla Corporation, with the support of Alienware and O'Reilly & Associates, has a great set of prizes in store for the contest winners. Alienware will provide Grand Prize category winners with a custom designed Alienware Aurora® 7500 Firefox Edition PC -- blazing fast gear that will make you the envy of all other Mozilla developers. Best in Class winners will receive Apple iPod® Nanos, and, thanks to our good friends at O'Reilly Media, US$250 gift certicates for books at O'Reilly.com. We're also throwing in a Firefox 1.5 Prize Pack for both sets of winners that includes a Firefox T-s***, cap and laptop bag."

Ah, poor baby's upset because I didn't mention the O'Reilly books and Nano?

no I'm upset at little men who have nothing salient to contribute and take cheap shots simply to be trolls. Did I mention I also dont think much of people who us the names of famous people as user names because they arent creative enough to come up with their own?

What an awe-inspired stroke of genius for a con job.

"Pity me, pity me, help me please! I didn't think the design through and besides I'm too damned lazy to do the job I should do so I'm going to impose on your charity to do it for me."

FF is VERY bare-bones out of the box compared to other browsers. If the dev team had taken the time to think the thing through properly and waited to implement a more robust feature set instead of rushing it out the door and trying to grandstand with all the flash and dash, they wouldn't need to do this now.

Extensibility is nice but using stock FF is like buying a car without tires - as an example the tab functions are an embarassment when compared to Maxthon and Opera.

Then you have the whole hunt-and-peck syndrome to pick plugins, make sure they're compatible with other plugins, keep them up to date with each release, the non-centralized quirky configuration interfaces oeach plugin has, etc.

Now of course the l33t faithful will flame and squeal and whine and wave the open source banner but the simple fact remains that FF is a half-baked product and now Mozilla needs to prop it up. It's much easier to get users up and running with a mature browser having a rich feature set and that spells Maxthon or Opera - or almost any other browser. the two examples I gave are just as free, less quirky, use less memory and are faster to boot. That's why I recommend those browsers and not FF - they're just better built overall. The ZillaLand crew botched Netscape, bothed Mozilla and are well down the road to botching FireFox.

Some people never learn - three strikes yer out.

Frankly, that's not a very "grown up" way to look at it. Some people only WANT a barebones browser. That is what Firefox was FOR. Extensions are for those that don't like Vanilla.

And Frankly, Maxthon is crap. I'm not going to diss Opera, tho. Now that it's free, I have not a thing against it.

I can only agree with you on the tab functionality of Firefox. It is a joke compared to maxthon and Opera. Otherwise, I like Firefox a great deal.

Maxthon vs. Firefox w/o extensions = Maxthon wins big time.

The best barebone browser is tied between IE and FF.

...because....

Firefox without extensions is just as useless as Internet Explorer.

Of course, this is just an opinion, but personally, I like the idea of Firefox being "bare bones," out of the box. It's the matter of choice. I don't have to look at a lot of features that I neither want nor need. I'm able to pick and choose the features which enhance my personal use of the browser. In other words, I have the choice of customizing Firefox to my own liking, rather than having some software company decide what I need or don't need. Again, that's just an opinion, I know, but possibly one shared by a lot of other Firefox users, as well.

Great point. Why tack on a bunch of features and bloat the browser when you can just offer them as optional extensions? Seems to make a lot more sense to me.

Agree totally!

Maxthon & Opera come with useful features and yet they are not bloatware. They consume less RAM than FF does. They are also more stable than FF.

Having said that, the plug-ins concept of FF is cool. Just that I think FF needs to be offered with plug-ins packs or something. Of course the challenge for FF is how to keep RAM utilization low even with plug-ins thrown in.

I have never used Maxthon so I won't comment on that, but come on. Opera has nothing! It won't even load 80% of the pages, no user support and it's ugly as hell after an ice storm. Yeah, it is .0000000005 seconds faster, but it doesn't load anything and pages look like crap. FF out of the box as it was called, if not perfect either, but it will load more and you can customize it, it has user support, and the best of all I can add new features to it in seconds.

I agree totally with your logic. The sole reaosn I dont use opera is because the dev's have to decide what functionality is good enough or worthy of being in their browser. The wand is FAR from being what I consider good enough and its form fill functionality is lack luster (being that you have to use the notes feature to even get something resembling a form fill). The opera devs really need to impliment (if even in a whitelist that they approve) an extension system that we can use.

FF was not rushed out the door it is the result of over 5 years of developement (I started using when it was called Firebird), it was designed to be small fast and light out of the box. The extensions feature was implemented so the USERS could modify it to suit their needs. I guess that is too much trouble for a computer whizz like you, so you use browsers that have features you might not want or would never use after saying "gee whizz that was neat....what do I do with it?". Maxthon is a shell over IE not a stand alone browser (you dont believe me, try using it without IE installed)and Opera doesnt render properly on a huge number of web sites so using those as comparisons is a fool's exercise. The only thing half baked around here are your opinions.

I know it cooked for over five years. This is in effect that team's THIRD try (Netscape, Mozilla, FireFox) and they still haven't learned as evidenced by this plea for help.

And if they were so hyped on what USERS wanted, they would have INCLUDED a lot more FEATURES and USABILITY touches right out of the box instead of RUSHING it out the door to make a splash.

Extensions are good - no denying that. However relying on them to fill a half-finished feature set is stupidity - as we now can see.

As to whether Maxthon is a shell or not, who cares? It does what FF *can't* and guess what? It *doesn't* have devs bleating for help to complete features because it already has them. The same is true of Opera. Also, if Gecko was such an awesome rendering engine superior to everything else, why is it 1) noticeably slower than IE and Opera rendering many sites 2) more chunky in RAM usage and 3) still prone to memory leaks after so many years of careful developement and bug sanitization? A little difficult to rationalize and build excuses for, yes? I mean, it has seen life in how many browsers now?

Finally, and again regarding the much vaunted rendering, I guess that's why FF needs the "display with IE" kludge, eh? But wait, that goes back to poor design - for some reason (*cough*anti-MS religion*cough*), the devs didn't see fit to build in an efficient so-called "quirks mode" to support the majority of sites built with IE in mind. I'm not an academic or purist with my head in the sky making lofty pronouncements on "standards" and strict adherence thereof. I'm a practical soul and want websites to display the way they were intended to. I guess that's why I recommend *other more capable browsers* to users to that end.

I don't do opinions - only facts. The most overwhelming fact is that the l33t crew who dev'd FF 1) didn't think things through vis a vis design so they're now caught short, 2) didn't do enough usability studies or testing as shown by the rather half-assed approach to plugin features configuration (hint: having each plugin roll it's own configuration style is NOT the way to go) and 3) tried to grandstand (the silly full page ad comes to mind) before the browser was ready for prime time.

But that's what you get when enlightened amateurs run a major software project instead of seasoned devs who will *managing it* before they start spinning code. That's the case with far too many open source projects so I'm not really surprised. As an aside, I'm sure that someone will pipe up and showcase OpenOffice and Linux but they're off-base. OO was a commercial project before it went open source (and still is - Sun manages it behind the scenes and contributes considerable money and programming expertise). Linux benefits from a lot of help from IBM which in no small part brought SDLC discipline to the project (it had to - the mess that existed previously was neither extensible nor sustainable for corporate use on their servers so they had to do *something*).

It would appear that the ZiillaLand crew need the leavening effect of REAL devs and management to stop the floundering around. In any event, there are far more mature alternatives to use and of course the 900 pound gorilla (IE7) marches inexorably towards release so no loss...

You live in a very confused LITTLE world if you think Opera has anything on FF other than a .5 second load time, which is due to the fact that is CAN'T load most web sites correctly. Opera can't even load Betanews correctly.

For such a long rant, you don't make very many points, and the points you make are not based in fact as you'd like to claim.

First of all, Opera is the worst page rendering engine I've ever puked on. The browser includes a lot of functionality that would be GREAT-- if the damn pages rendered right.

Maxthon is purely a shell for IE. Therefore, it is essentially an add-on extension to IE... I have yet to see how Maxthon offers much functionality that Firefox doesn't. It happens to be something I've never found a need for, because I find the functionality of IE to be sufficient save for the lack of tabbed browsing, which, ironically is something I despised until recently with the release of the 1.5 editions. But then again, I actually dig around in the Options/Preferences dialogs of ALL OF MY APPLICATIONS and play with things and tweak them to my desires rather than whine about how it doesn't do what I want.

Firefox, generally speaking, does not, in fact, *need* a "View in IE" option. I run it perfectly fine without it with the sole exception of Outlook Web Access for my Exchange Server, since I prefer the "Premium" interface (very Outlook 2003-like). In fact, I only have come across an issue recently with the microsoft.com/exchange/ web site that links don't want to function in FF that has caused me to add a second site to my "Load in IE" list. I don't know if it's a Microsoft.com issue or a FF1.5Beta issue, but since other Microsft pages work fine, it's a minor inconvenience at best. I do continue to use IE for Windows Updates as well, however, that hardly counts since the Critical Updates can just use Automatic Updates and forego the entire need to visit the site.

As far as Extension Options go, I think it's great that each extension has options you can set. That's extremely flexible, useful functionality that recognizes that people are different and like different things.

From now on, before you go writing big, long rants about things, it would benefit you to THINK and RESEARCH before you write. It would also help you to make your point if you stop acting like a hypocritical, elitest know-it-all snob in pretty much all of your posts.

I agree on the point about RAM consumption. Firefox is pretty heavy, and there are definitely some leaks floating around depending on usage habits. On the other hand, waiting 1-2 seconds for a new session to load after closing down a bloated session isn't that much of an inconvenience, so I see no reason to leave it running when not in use.

I don't like the stability comment about Firefox, though... I have been using it since the 1.0 release a year ago, and have yet to encounter an issue with it that wasn't caused by my own doing or a bad extension.

I also love the idea of extensions. However, this whole "versioning" of extensions is a bit absurd (to me). I get the whole concept of why it's needed to prevent people from using bad extensions in newer Firefox versions, but it just seems like there could be a better way.

Latest opera beta has Netscape plugin API implemented, so expect Opera plugins appearing soon.

Perhaps this is why Firefox have done this...

lol where do you get your stats from? 80%? .0000000005 faster? And no user support?

lol rightio then

So you are telling me that users can make extensions/plugins for it? And it's more like less than 75%. I was just being kind.

Did I say anything about extensions/plugins? Please don't put words in my mouth.

Where is the source for this "75% of sites not working" with Opera?

Don't just make up stuff to sound like you know something.

Hmmm, seeing how it can't even load this page correctly you should really just shut up. You are the one that acted like I was so wrong in saying that it isn't user supported, so it sounds like that means people can make plugins and extensions for it. You sir are a fool. I get that % for when I tested it and from everyone else I have talked to, most have said much, much less than even 75%. Even a few of your cohorts that love Opera will tell you that is doesn't load much of crap. It doesn't support anything, other than a few crappy "features" that aren't worth a dime in hell. Come now Mr. Zealot go back under your rock.

lol you sound like a 13 year old. You talk like one anyway. I use Maxthon personally, then Opera as a back up.

It has loaded every site I've been to correctly. Haven't had a problem with it. You're the only one who seems to be the problem.

LMAO You are blind as well as dumb. This whole site is full of people who have problems with Opera. You are part of the retards that stick up for trash. It's not my fault that you can't read and you stick up for trash. As for the way I type, I do that so people like you can read it.

EDIT: Are you and roj the same person? You both make the same stupid comments and you both are full of crap.

lol well enough said. Your post said enough about you. No use me posting back and answering all that crap :)

Good move from Mozilla, because without extensions, Firefox is not that better than IE anyway.

Mozilla Foundation should have considered taking the developments of some key extensions such as AdBlock or NoScript so that these extensions will be updated the moment a new version of Firefox arrives. The thing I hate the most is being put under mercy of the whims of extensions developers who can sometimes take their own damn sweet time to update their extensions.

Except IE doesn't have tabbed browsing, advanced privacy controls, better security, and a bunch of other features that have made Firefox so popular in the first place.

Tabbed browsing? Have it in IE7.

Advanced Privacy control? Also has it.

Better security? That was arbitrary. IE7 has been in beta for quite some time now, and suprisingly, no security issues after all. IE6 has less issues in the past year than Firefox.

Bunch of other features? What features that Firefox default install have that Internet Explorer doesn't have?

It's Open Source and runs on different platforms.

Open Source is not an advantage for non-programmers like PHB etc.

IE also runs (or used to) on different platforms like Apple and DEC.

"Hi, my name is Joe, and I'm just you're average user."

"Hi Joe!"

"I barely know how to turn my computer on and click on the icon that says "Internet" from my start button, let alone how write a web page.... How then, does Open Source mean JACK DIDDLY SQUAT TO ME?!?!"

Is Open Source anything like an open book test? *sarcasm*

Hmm, strange... the only extension I use with Firefox is "IE View" for those very few pages that just don't render well in Firefox... that's more for a convenience factor so I don't have to copy/paste the url's or renavigate.

I *could* use AdBlock, but I find it easier to just right click on the obtrusive ads and choose "Block images from ...." Since I have the popup blocker enabled, I usually leave the shock/flash ones in tact so that I can play the game ones to kill a few minutes of time as well as support the site I am visiting.

I'm an avid Microsoft support, but I generally find Firefox to be much more productive -- even out of the box -- than IE6 on XP/2003. I will wait for IE7 to be final before making a decision to revert back to IE or not.

MS stopped development for IE on the Mac in early 2003. IE 5 for the Mac has to be the worst browser ever on the platform.

"...and further solidify its role as the de facto alternative to Internet Explorer."

A status it will keep, IMHO, until opera or some other browser begins supporting 3rd party extensions as openly as Firefox does.

Well, at least with regards to my desktop.

Opera doesn't need extensions. it's FAR more feature complete and mature right out of the box, something FF will never achieve if it holds true to Zillaland dogma and practices.

LMAO LMMFAO

I've been a visitor to BetaNews for 5 years now. I read newsgroups, web sites, textbooks, and sit in college classes every day. I hear a LOT of really, really stupid comments, and as such one would think I'd be used to it and just smile and laugh.

I don't... I'm always amazed by the amount of absolute garbage that certain people have an abundant capacity to spew from their mouths.

Hundreds of new extensions is not what this browser needs. It needs less than 50, but it needs them regression tested, stable, and useful.

ANyone who's upgraded to RC1 knows, 90+% of extensions and themes are currently incompatible. Developers need a more stable environment to develop and users shouldn't need to know anything about compatibility for every browser upgrade.

Otherwise I love Firefox. I think it's months away from getting ready though. Most user's I've installed on have never even clicked on the upgrade arrow and are still using the original themes and extensions and versions of Firefox I installed for them 9 months ago!

Incompatible, or just not working due to the versioning in the rdf file?

Open the XPI file with winRAR, edit the rdf file so the max version is 1.7 or so, put it back in, and install.

Worked for all but one of my extensions.

That said, it would be nice if they let you try it out before telling you it won't work, because, at least in my case, it's a good bet they'll work just fine.

Now, I did have to DL a new Greasemonkey. And some of the GM scripts ain't working, but it's got more to do with the beta of GM I am using than FF, I am sure.

"Open the XPI file with winRAR, edit the rdf file so the max version is 1.7 or so, put it back in, and install.

Worked for all but one of my extensions."

OK come on. an RC is release candidate. it's supposed to be a next to final release, fully featured, and only small bugs need to be squashed. These users I talk about won't even know wtf winrar is, and they won't know what to do when they see extensions being disabled on first startup. I understand the expert user (me and you,) through the newb (most of my staff,) and I know what happens when people get scared, they run away from it.

BTW, I love FF 1.5 in general. I'm looking forward to SVG support. the end user won't be as forgiving.

I have 25 extensions and they are all compatible. Firefox complains that they aren't, but then I reply back that they are after making a change in install.rdf. Haven't had any problems at all with compatibility yet, and I've been with 1.5 since Beta 1.

Guess that is the luck of the draw. I had only 5 installed and 3 were incompatible and didn't work.

How many home users are going to want to modify an install.rdf file? Also, why should I have to run an extension just to force other extensions to be compatible? Why not just finalize an API so that developers can develop towards that and get everything to work without regard to version?

I have to ask, what 25 extensions do you have? I guess I am not a power browser, but I cannot think of 25 extensions to IE that I would need. Maybe I don't know I would want them until I had them.

The response below is correct though, that most users would not know to change an install.rdf file or be brave enough to do so. Kudos to you for getting them all working though!

I have 11 and I didn't have to tweak anything. If you want a list here they are: Adblock, Flashblock, Tab X, Forecastfox, downloadTHEMall, Download Manager Tweak, DictionarySearch, Copy Plain Text, Gmail Delete Button, Translate, and Ebay Negs. I had 12, BitOZilla, but it needed an update and they haven't made one yet.

You do, I hope, realize that if you just leave them disabled for a day, then most likely they'll have an update out the day after right?

Incidentally, I run Firefox "out of the box" and the only extension I use is IE View for the 2 web sites I visit that just don't work in Firefox.

Wow, guess you guys forgot it's beta software?

Home users do not generally install beta software. If you vist this web site and use any programs then your not the normal home user.

The "Home users" are still using FF 1.07 and eariler with no problems with exenstions, etc.

The point is the api is finilized for 1.0. Just not 1.5. Why should they when its still in beta?

So how many exenstions dont work with 1.0x ? None? Um...

So the point is wait for 1.5 to go final then update exenstions or just live with it. Its beta software. And its free and the developers dont owe you a damn thing. Be glad they do it for free in the first place. You ungrateful little kids...

Well besides..... Get a live... Go outside and have fun for a change....I'm going to a football game ATM, yeahing I'm playing, not watching...like normal human beings...not crazy little idiots who bitc* and moan about every litle thing...