It's a shame that HDDVD is losing to Bluray purely through marketing and the fact it comes with a games console. I bought HDDVD because I believe it was a more complete format (with internet, PIP etc. from the get go) where as Bluray is constantly updating firmware to include these features, in which case some older Bluray players can't even update to.

If Bluray wins, I'll pick up the clearance HDDVDs to make the player worthwhile and then sit on the fence because digital downloads might win out over Bluray.

"More Complete"..

1) HD DVD has a paultry, far less than adequate 128mb cache for downloads.
2) HD DVD has low bitrate max
3) HD DVD has low capacity
4) HD DVD has few lossless audio titles
5) HD DVD has only one title with more than 5.1 lossless channels
6) Web-enabled is mostly limited to downloading SD trailers
7) PIP is limited to a secondary SD video stream.
8) Most HD DVD players only show crippled, downsampled 1080i video instead of the 1080p/24 image actually encoded on the disc.

1- HD DVD has the ability to connect to the web today. This ability is another case of 'soon, only not yet' for blu-ray stand-alones.
2- Even with the lower bitrate, HD DVD has put out a comparable picture to anything offered on Blu-ray.
3- HD DVD has a lowER capacity than a blu-ray disc. Remarkably enough, the format has made better usage of this 'limitation' than br has, offering the movie and extras on one disc. Blu-ray has, in some cases, opted to put the extras on a second disc, so that they can continue to offer an uncompressed audio track.
4- Once again, you mistake uncompressed with a lossless audio codec.
5-*sigh
6- Web-enabled has offered much more than just SD trailers. Shrek 3 offered downloadable trivia tracks. Harry Potter OotP offered ringtones, and the ability to watch the film remotely (not the best implementation, but it's there...). 300 allowed a user to piece together their favorite clips, and upload them online, for other users to view...
7- PIP, a feature that has existed on HD DVD's since day one (as has the secondary decoders). BR's version (until profile 1.1) was to include a second encode of the movie, with the PIP feature hard encoded onto the film. Great justification for the extra space...why use the space to add extra/exclusive content, when you can hog it up with a second copy of the same film?
8- Unless you're sitting within 4-5 feet of the screen, you cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. For the average consumer, the advantage of 1080p exists only on paper...

I note with interest, you avoid to mention the 1080p PIP capabilities on Blu-ray, with switchable PIP/Main Feature.

I don't see HD DVD being able to do this, as the PIP is limited to SD.

Now that HD DVD hardware sales have recovered from the shock of the post-dated pledge by Warner I'd bet the house that we won't be seeing another little unusual leak of this nature.

It's just the usual Blu-ray BS.

21k (like that's a high number anyways) pi$$ed off profile 1.0 owners coming up!

Sales havn't recovered, they have gone from bad to worse. This week will be the 3rd week in a row that HD DVD player and media sales have plummeted since all those studios dumped HD DVD.

Even the industry is calling for Toshiba/Paramount/Universal to give it up.

http://www.dvdfile.com/i...p;task=view&id=6496

http://www.dvdreview.com/coffee/pages/524.html

Hell, even retailers are dumping you, first Target, now Woolworths.

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=32482

And Circuit City..

http://www.1080living.co...file=article&sid=17

I give BestBuy a few more weeks personally...

I just came from my local Best Buy. The HD DVD and Blu-ray sections are of absolute equal size.

As long as Warner are still releasing titles until after May, and as long as Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks titles exist exclusively on HD DVD, they will remain. Even if those very same studios decide to support Blu-ray instead, HD DVD discs will still occupy shelf space to maximize their profits during the transition... after all, it is all about money.

Your "few more weeks" remark is about as reliable as that Circuit City article. For such a reliable source, they cannot seem to figure out how to even spell 'HD DVD' or 'Blu-ray', and I lost track of the grammatical and spelling errors. You probably wrote it...

I just came from my Local Best Buy, and it's now 90% Blu, with end displays all Blu, no HD DVD players, and 10% media.

Not looking good at all for HD DVD.

Would that be the Best Buy in Allentown? Or is it in England? I can never quite keep up with where you are again...

Only in your head, am I different people...

PS, I don't believe there are BestBuy stores in England..

Contrast Ratio:
This is just one point, but the Contrast Ratio (why blacks look grey) is very important to picture quality.

When OLED HDTV's are released this issue will be completely solved. It's quite incredible how much a difference it makes. There's still a good reason to hold off for a couple years to invest in High-Def. Regular CRT's ("tube" TV's) do not have the Contrast Ratio issue. In fact, I'd rather watch broadcast quality Standard Def on a 27" CRT.

I'm sure a lot of people know what I'm talking about. Personally, I think HD-DVD did more things right than BluRay (Internet access, better quality videos at the start).

I almost bought a PS3 but I'm holding out for another year. It's nice to see the 40GB PS3's power requirements dropped to about 120Watts but I'd prefer a 25W standalone. Personally, I'd like to get a BluRay player with FULL features including playback from a hard drive (possibly USB). I may even wait for a PS4.

I think High-Def discs will get at least three really good years before small, camera-card like technology prevails (in conjunction with download).

"In fact, I'd rather watch broadcast quality Standard Def on a 27" CRT."

Me too.

Two weeks in a row now! Almost a 5-1 lead in the US now.

Pre warner it was 2-1 all year. Now the 2 weeks after warner 5-1. That's big. Warner is not even exclusive yet.

http://www.engadgethd.co...for-week-ending-january/

I think you are seeing the 'drop-off' rates for movie purchases because of people heading back to the store, seeing the HD/BD movie for $30-$40 and the DVD for $15-$25 and making the obvious choice most consumers make - they buy the cheap one.

Don't tell the sony trolls here that they will get mad.

Anyone want to be how long Nate Mook and Ken Graffeo last in their current jobs?

With biased reporting, and unsound buisness decisons, not very long I think...

Many sites are linking to this story, and commenting how desperate Nate Mook is, in his biased reporting, it's hillarious...

http://www.highdefdigest...ekly_Hardware_Lead/1403

Once again, your skills with reading comprehension are astounding. The article that you link to not only links to this one, but it paints the same picture. The only thing lacking (in the linked article), are the direct quotes.

If you're referring to the forums, you do realize that for all intents and purposes, they function the same as this one(meaning nothing more than a discussion)...right? I didn't bother going thru every comment, but on the first page, there was only 1 comment to the effect that BN was pro-hd dvd...with the rest being about the article itself.

Seriously, it seems that the only way that you'll ever be happy with BN, is if it turns into the same ego-stroking, bung sniffing propaganda and pap that one finds on Bluray.com.

Considering Nate is the site owner, I suspect he won't be going far.

Thanks for the lies, and "fear" though.

Oh, what's this?

http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php

Right, it states that you can't trust the numbers as a trend.

Keep on with the lies and "fear" though, eventually someone might believe you.

All of this is much ado about nothing.

This is akin to listening to the DVD-A folks debate the SACD folks.

What you never here is the sales figures for standard DVDs versus HD(both formats!)

And there the silence is deafening.

Very much akin, actually...

First we had a format that was clearly superior to the previous, well-suited to replace it... then Sony stepped in and said that they had one of their own, as usual.

Sony's BS in this regard is getting extremely tiring, and they are usually the ones responsible for these ridiculous format wars in the first place.

There were already 4 or 5 different types of flash memory cards on the market... no, Sony needs a proprietary one of their own.

Never mind the fact that anyone could convert movies to a format the PSP could read... no, you need UMD (and I have no idea what was so universal about it in the first place if only the PSP could read them).

Mini-disc was a neat concept, but an atrocity from an audio quality standpoint. As well, I can't think of a single manufacturer of Mini-disc players aside from Sony.

There were already plenty of models of Palm devices on the market, but Sony had to have one of their own, choosing to release the Clie and bas****ize the PalmOS in the process.

Etc, etc...

It surprises me to no end that the PS2 and PS3 actually have USB ports.

"then Sony stepped in and said that they had one of their own, as usual."

Errm, you mean Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Philips, JVC, Sanyo, Dennon, Samsung (and so on...)

As for the other crap, you seem to have a very short memory, how old are you? SonyMS was created, because all the other formats sucked badly at the time, with regards to write speeds (the MS was 6x faster than the fastest competitor flash memory device).

As for Minidisc, Sharp made loads of them...

PSP needing UMD, not mine, I can encode movies and stick them on MS..

Clie was a rebadged Palm, nothing more than that. Rebadging happens everywhere, but it's only a problem to you, when Sony does it...

PS2 did not have any USB ports.

"PSP needing UMD, not mine, I can encode movies and stick them on MS.."

Actually that's a good point Steve.

Regardless of whether using the UMD, or a MS, it's still a Sony proprietary format though.

And yes, the PS2 did have USB ports. It's how the SOCOM headset connected to the unit.

There are a lot of things about the PS3 that surprise me. Could it be Sony is learning from their mistakes.... Probably not. But they should get credited for them.

The USB ports being one of them.
No regional coding for games.
Swappable HDD. You don't have to buy Sony's drives.
Bluetooth for keyboards and headsets.
Being able to run Linux on it.
Being Divx certified.

This is a case where I agree with you.

The USB ports, while not new, are welcome...as is the keyboard and mouse functionality that is built in (even without a Linux install).

Region coding...again, a plus. I just wish that the PS store was world-wide, not regional.

HDD...good move.

Bluetooth for the headset = good move. I would have preferred a standard IR remote though (personal thing).

I don't use Linux too much, but the ability to run it is welcome.

I prefer the PS3's implementation of Divx over the 360. I still prefer XBMC over all of the console media centers, but Sony definitely did a decent job here.

I agree with that completely... although I must admit I was completely unaware of the lack of region coding for the games. Nice move.

"Errm, you mean Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Philips, JVC, Sanyo, Dennon, Samsung (and so on...)"

No, I meant Sony (and Philips), as I was referring to SACD.

"As for Minidisc, Sharp made loads of them..."

I stand corrected. Thank you.

"PSP needing UMD, not mine, I can encode movies and stick them on MS."

I did happen to mention that, before the comment I made about Sony feeling compelled to release movies on a "universal" format that only the PSP could read... when it wasn't necessary.

"Clie was a rebadged Palm, nothing more than that."

It was actually quite more than that. I suppose it also had a "rebadged" OS, memory card slot, and desktop connectivity suite as well? If by "rebadged" you mean "completely redesigned", then yes... I agree.

And yes, the PS2 has USB ports... always did. It's how I load custom .ELF files when using Swap Magic.

Yep...calling a UMD 'universal' is almost as funny as when the BDA referred to profile 1.1 as 'final'.

Wow another article to support the BLO Ray Supporters. LOOK OUR FORMAT IS GAINING GROUND.. We are fire selling those soon to be obsolete profiles for free.. Yay!!! were getting close to the objective of that 1 win for SONY. ALL proclaimed BY SONY and their fantrolls. Pat yourselves on the back your format still BLOWS!

I cared before, I wanted the better format to win. NOW like the rest of the world we couldn't give two sh**s about SONY and BLO Ray. The studios will remain to be divided and you fantrolls can pray every night that a change will occur and somehow your format will become victorious. Sorry Hollywood is right "They are still below half of one percent, even with HD-DVD added in. Most people just don't care. Standard DVD (especially upscaled to 720p / 1080i)looks so much better than standard 480i broadcast, whereas HD movies look slightly better than standard DVD to most people.

You need a good TV to notice a huge difference and Americans like to buy cheap crappy plasmas and LCDs."

Your going to loose when people move to on demand and your looking in the (formally known as laser disk shops) now BLo Ray shops for your movies. On top of that thanks Sony all those people who bought those 1.0 players are going to be unhappy next year and most likely choose not to purchase another Sony product.

"On top of that thanks Sony all those people who bought those 1.0 players are going to be unhappy next year and most likely choose not to purchase another Sony product."

Let's hope so. If getting screwed by their exploding batteries and DRM infested CDs wasn't enough to deter you from ever buying another Sony product, hopefully getting screwed a third time is the charm!

http://maddox.xmission.com/

Go down to the 6th or 7th article, or simply search for "Sony" after the page loads. ;)

Thats one way to get rid of the profile challanged blu ray players, give them away.

Hahahaha, exactly what I was thinking.

NATE,
You said you waited this long so that you can "...get the full facts before jumping to conclusions :)". Is that true or were you just waiting to spin...

Or maybe you didn't wait long enough.

"NPD's numbers DO NOT include online sales from the likes of Amazon, where Toshiba's HD-A3 HD DVD player is the number one seller in the DVD player category and number 14 in all of electronics. By contrast, standalone Blu-ray players do not make the electronics list."

I think you are wrong. I think Amazon IS counted in the sales. I believe it's just WalMart that does not. I'm just repeating what I've read. Maybe you should look into it deeper.

from what i've seen that is true for the media but not the hardware sales

" Is that true or were you just waiting to spin..."
Care to explain? That holds absolutely NO weight whatsoever because you stopped short with your explanation...

"I think you are wrong. I think Amazon IS counted in the sales. I believe "

I think I think I believe? I think you should remove this post and try again. I believe others would agree.
Your worst attempt at discrediting BN to date

I bet sony leaked this report. So how much of every Blue Ray player goes to sony? Sony will make Billions if not more after HD-DVD is dead.

Fox received a reported $120 million payout from Sony to stay Blu-ray—Warner then switched and received between $400 and $500 million for its defection.

am i the only one that just wants a format to win for data purposes? i like backing up to optical media and dual layer dvds are not cutting it.

I dont care who wins, i just want cheap media and burners.

>>
I dont care who wins, i just want cheap media and burners.

kudos for that.

kudos!
Blu-ray burners still close to $500 (with HD DVD ROM built in - not that its needed) and media at $9 for single layer 25GB... still not cheap... but getting there!

[Edit] Also if you only care about data purposes you'd obviously want the format with the most capacity to win... so you should care wins... and its heading in a favorable direction for you.

Hmmm... I want the format with the cheapest cost win. It's like DVD5 vs DVD9. Cost of DVD5, cost around 25 or less, free after rebates some time. DVD9, at last $1, and they don't work with all burners and reader. And when do we need to use a DVD9? Never, except burning a 360 game.

How does something that is free count as sales?

No opinion. Not even interested.

I'm so apathetic about this whole HD cr@p that I wish I hadn't replied.

Any excuse.. I can't believe there are still people kidding themselves that HD DVD stands any chance whatsoever.

93% of hardwaere sales. It's over, that is the sign of HD DVD owners jumping ship and buying Blu replacements..

I cant beleive anyone spends as much time worrying about this as your sorry ass.

I went to Best Buy today, the BD and HD-DVD sections used to be equal size, since the Warner deal, it's a 5 to 3 sections difference in favor of Blu Ray.

Benjaimin / Dave, you are still a pathetic fanboy.

I've stopped buying HD movies all together and only rent from Netflix. I am convinced HD-DVD is headed for disaster and BD will never own more than 5% of the total movie market.

They are still below half of one percent, even with HD-DVD added in. Most people just don't care. Standard DVD (especially upscaled to 720p / 1080i)looks so much better than standard 480i broadcast, whereas HD movies look slightly better than standard DVD to most people.

You need a good TV to notice a huge difference and Americans like to buy cheap crappy plasmas and LCDs.

Are you aware that Cars on standard DVD has sold more copies than every BD and HD-DVD bought and given away with players to date?

You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt that you did not read the article... or if you did, you were completely unable to comprehend it.

Boy, You really are just a troll.

If they can get BluRay closer to the sub $150 mark I'll consider putting it next to my HD-DVD player.

@ yountmj - I think he's unable to comprehend even basic concepts.

Wow. You not only didn't read the article you apparently didn't even read the title. lmao

I'm fairly convinced that I am going to wait until this next holiday season to purchase a Blu-ray player. Hopefully by then, there will be a bevy of decent BD-Live players to choose from at a fair price. Until then, I'm sure I'll enjoy upconverting new and existing DVDs.

The only people that still think HDDVD still has a chance are these puppets around us.

Nate and Ed have their heads spun so bad they can't tell reality from wishful thinking. They need to look around at other websites to see what other sites are reporting and how other people are commenting.

I know you tend to have a great deal of fun with this, or perhaps you just like to see how far you can get away with attacking their integrity, character, or professionalism... but do you think you can get off their a** for a change?

I thought this article was well written, and included much more information than most other sites are reporting. Others are quite content to report the tremendous "sales" spike, yet fall short of explaining just why it spiked. This article did just that.

After a quick search around, I've noticed other sites are simply referencing the Digital Bits' take on the matter, crediting the sudden s*** almost exclusively to Warner's decision to back Blu-ray.

You tell me what's responsible reporting.

Of course, half of writing history is hiding the truth...

*EDIT* By the way, I never want it to seem like I'm picking on you most of the time. I guess I just like arguing with you. *shrug* :)

Bennie/Joey/Dave/Steve & whatever other aliterations you use.
One question my friend, "how much are you being paid for each post you make here?".
And, attendant to that (I kknow this will be 2 questions), do you get a bonus for every flame you make that is retandant or perhaps that should be redundant?
Surely by now you must realise you have the capacity of a "Minidisk".
I'll be most interested to see your next set of snaps, hopefully they will be sharper than your oneshot (we have a saying here you my friend "have the staying power of a sparrow").
Perhaps, buddy when you cringe in shame, hiding away in your cupboard, counting your shekels and enjoying the perceived glory you don't make too much of a mess!
Can't resist one final observation, a Sony Rootkit is a good thing! Come to OZ 'n we'll show you a rootkit! Fool!!!

Damn it yountmj!
Why you always picking on me!!! It is fun posting here. I know there are only like 5 of us pro Blu-Ray people in a sea of about 100 of you. And according to most of you, there is only me as dave, ben, joey, smurfette, etc...

Responsible reporting?
Saying that there was "some" drop off in hddvd sales is not "...getting the full facts". Some makes it seem like what, 5% 10%? How about stating the reported 88% drop off being reported everywhere else. It's one thing reporting on why a big 93% share may not be as good as it seems, but then there is no mention of HDDVD player sales that go from a reported 14,558, to a little over 7,000??? That's a huge drop! But I guess thats not part of the"...full facts."

Getting off their @ss for a change...
I think it's a little of both. It is great fun and I do think I get away with a lot. But I may be close to getting off their @ss. I've gotten a comment deleted now from BN twice that wasn't vulgar or offensive. I told myself a long time ago that if I get banned or once I start getting comments deleted, I would stop. But damn it you guys are too much fun!

You really don't accept any news that looks bad for Blu Ray it obviously states why there were a 93% because of the free players bundle because there no source to validate your statements so get over yourself.

of course there will be a drop of sales after following the holiday season that business. And the reason A3 doing so good on amazon is the price really this article must upset Blu Ray fanboys who was so excited to say we got 93% of hardware sales and HD DVD is dead but when this news come out oh oh they just trying to keep HD DVD alive oh oh it dont account for all the HD DVD players returns get over it they was caught case closed

I think you are the smartest one on here because I like both for the video and audio quality but i also have a 5 disc dvd changer that can upconvert to 1080i but really dont use it now i got a hd dvd add on for the 360 i won at hollywood video at a game crazy tournament for madden. I beat this 12 year old in the finals to get the grad prize of a hd dvd add on and 300 i was totally impress. But honestly i prefer hd dvd because they have better movie selection until wb went blu ray exclusive and they planning on releasing my 2 favorite hd dvd releases on blu ray. but they having issues with 1.1 to duplicate what it did on the hd dvd for batman begins and matrix trilogy.

In all fairness, Ben/Steve tipped his hat at being the same person a few months back. After a few posts as B.L. (coupled with the usual responses to his comments), he chimed in (as Steve Austin, mind you) yelling 'that's not what I said'. Needless to say, we pounced on this like jackals (I'm sure that yountmj remembers this).

"Baker wouldn't get specific -- since NPD normally never even comments on weekly sales data -- but said there was some drop in HD DVD player sales."

That comment says it all. The person interviewed wouldn't give specifics. With the nature of the article, I'd have to say that quoting numbers that the NPD won't specifically stand behind (their words, not mine), would be speculation.

"It's one thing reporting on why a big 93% share may not be as good as it seems..."

That was precisely what I was having a problem with... or rather, what I thought everyone else pro-Blu-ray was having a problem with (negative spin on good Blu-ray news). I agree that the boost is truly worth mentioning, and I congratulate them for it. What I thought was a tad irresponsible from a professional journalistic standpoint where other pro-Blu-ray sites were concerned (especially Bill Hunt's) was attributing the cause of that spike to something that it was most likely not, and not attributing it to what it most likely was. This is where I believe Nate was probably digging a little deeper regarding his facts, but only he knows for sure.

Warner's move to back Blu-ray quite logically may have had a part in it, and I am certainly in no position to suggest or prove otherwise. I simply thought the "sales" numbers spoke for themselves. Three Blu-ray manufacturers sharing an almost equal third of the pie each when they were the only three who were offering free players with HDTV purchases... that's a logical explanation, not negative spin, and certainly took nothing away from the fact that there was still a 93% HD market share in favor of Blu-ray. Quite sincerely, congrats!

Of course, the free player offers and Warner's move combined... that equals 'ouch' for HD DVD indeed, I cannot deny that. They're really starting to play hardball, it seems... I guess it just took them a while to really get focused. I still do not believe it's over, not for quite a while... but it's 'overer' than it was. :)

I'd hate to see you get banned... but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. For the record, I (to the best of my knowledge) never placed you in the same category as Steve-jamin Deac-aid BG, nor considered you the same person. Hollywood__, as much as I love the dude, tends to take that a little overboard at times.

Yep, I remember that well. I still have it bookmarked. Good times, indeed. :)

Could you post the link to that? I can't seem to find it myself.

if npd doesn't count online retailers is there anyway to find out how many players amazon has been selling?

The Blu-Ray group is playing a really smart strategic game with these free deals.

I think even without them though Blu still widens the leads. There have been various reports that the HDDVD sales had a dropoff of about 80% (Before the sales). Don't quote me on any numbers.

If BLU keeps this smart play up, this war would be overer faster than than we think.

[NOTE: For the people that will ignore everything but the use of the made up word "overer" It was intentional.]

I was wondering what was taking NATE so long to report the 93%. When everyone else reported it 2 days ago... He waited until he spin it negative.

Relax kids I am joking!..... Kinda of.

We were awaiting details of the numbers from NPD. Unlike most, we like to get the full facts before jumping to conclusions :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/...ed_lies,_and_statistics

And I for one appreciate that.

Sure you were.

Sure you were.

I know you're joking... sorta.

There's really nothing to spin negatively about this. Free players equals sharp increase in "sales", no differently than the BOGO offers boosted disc "sales" time and time again. "Blu-ray players did well, and this is why" is what I got from the article.

I do not believe "free" should be counted as a sale, but oh well...

Yes, Blu-ray stand-alone players did well, perhpas better in one week than they've done since release combined (just guessing here... no hard facts to back that up). However, how well would they have "sold" had they not been free? Samsung's non-existent sales that week should give a clue, as well as the sales of every Blu-ray stand-alone up to now before the give-away. It only reinforces the fact that price (or lack of) is a major determining factor when deciding between two or more competing products.

I applaud them for it, actually. The relatively high prices of Blu-ray stand-alone players compared to HD DVD players have been a major bane to their widespread adoption. You simply cannot beat "free"... it's just too bad that consumers have to purchase 1-2 grand worth of HDTV to take advantage of it.

At least Toshiba charged something for their players, yet the Blu-ray camp couldn't wait to shout "fire sale" and "desperation" every chance they got. I agree this was a very smart move by certain Blu-ray manufacturers, just as it was a smart move by Toshiba when they lowered prices... I just dislike hypocrisy. :)

You defy belief. You really do

they trying to give away all the 1.0 players they can because they know no one will buy them when so many people are being informed of the differences of 2.0 over 1.0 so they dont want them to collect dust on store shelves let them collect dust at people homes

gentalmen start your flames.

exactly what i was think i'm sure our favorite fanboys will be here shortly bashing nate for being biased when all he was doing was reporting the truth about that report unlike some other sites.

i remain opinionless.

I like the war of BD and HD DVD. See I can get 10 free BDs and one BD player with the purchase of a HDTV and 7 free HD DVDs with the purchase of a $125 HD DVD player. 2 months later, I might get 50 free BDs with a purchase of $100 BD player and 60 free HD DVDs with a purchase of $60 DVD palyer. Just don't end the war too soon. We consumers win. Please, please don't end the war too soon.

Amen! LOL