Dave,

I have come to the conclusion that you know absolutely nothing about the technical aspects of BD or HD-DVD. I beleive my mission here is done.

I have repeatedly called you out as a liar who is simply a brainwashed Sony cheerleader who doesnt even own one piece of high end gear. By this time, everyone here has figured out that you are completely full of crap and just make it up as you go along.

From this point on, I will never, ever respond to one of your posts again, for any reason. You could conjecture that my mother is a Lebonese prostitute and I wouldn't respond.

We all know you post your nonsense here just to get a response out of people like Carlox, who havent been here long enough to know you are the definition of a living abortion.

You arent worth one second of my time ever again. I hope everyone here does the same thing and simply ignores you (and all of your multiple screen names pretending to be different people) from this point on.

Any guesses as to how long it will take to crack it or hack it?

Anyone heard of the Sony players getting hot or catching on fire?

Not ever going to matter to me, or anyone that matters. HD anything is going to be dead in 10 years time just like betas were. Not one person I know is willing o get charged more for blueray over DVD. its not worth it. Even on the big screen HDtvs. DVD is more then enough except for the truly anal retentive people that just get off on wasting money. Hell truth be told My HDtv 1080p looks simply awful on the majority of television stations in comparison to my older big-screen tv from over 2 decades ago. And if I watch one of the 20 or so HDtv channels on my old screen its looks just as good IMHO. I mean common its television, not holograph realism. So who cares? Be rid of those formats once and for all and just produce quality DVDs and be done with it.

There is no way that your new 1080p tv looks worse in HD than your old tv plain and simple. You will be buying a new disk format if Hollywood makes you. How will they make you, simple stop making DVD's. They can and will do this at some point. They will force a change in hopes that you buy you fav movies in HD just like people did from tape to DVD. 10 more years is long time to think that DVD will still be around. At some point Hollywood will force a change to a different media even if it isn't HD or blu.

Hey ingram,

HD will be your only choice in 10 years. All standard NTSC terrestrial broadcasts are gone as of Feb 19th 2009. You do know the US govenrment is auctioning off the bandwidth used for current broadcast to the highest bidder, don't you?

You are absolutely right about one thing. Unless you are putting a 720p, 1080i, or 1080p signal into your 1080p set, it's going to look like crap.

If your 1080p set is showing a crappy picture on HD programming, then you need to crack whoever hooked your gear up across the face, because they are retarded.

Something is wrong with your setup and it needs to be fixed.

Ah yea I know the HD conspiracy crap in 2009. and when it happens I end all tv subscriptions and get 100% of content from the internet illegally as all users should in protest of this monumentally bad decision to screw the public over into buying overly expensive equipment. I just hope these voters remeber this when it come time to vote the little s***s out of office for pulling that garbage. and as to what I was saying the 1080p tv quality is what it is but common its TV so what does it matter. same with DVDs when they stop making them well thats the end I stop buying ANYTHING. I went through the Beta revolution, the CEDs, the Laser disc revolution, the VHS was strong all through that untill the DVDs. then and only then did I move from VHS with assurance that DVD was here to stay. and it is. Blue ray sales will not be anywhere comparable to DVD sales for decades to come. The only way it could happen is if the industry is stupid enough to end the last profit making market they have DVDs. and if they are that stupid, which I think we all know they are. well they deserve all the losses they will incure for the decades to come.

It makes me sick at the public creaming their pants over HD anything when its a huge waste of money trying to fix something that is not broke to be gin with. There is NOTHING wrong with DVD quality. and NO reason, ZERO, to be forced to change an entire collection of dvds, in the thousands now into Blueray HDs just because the technology wants to be bumped for the anal retentives that get off on wasting money.

HD is no better then anything else in my opinion, its just another way for the industry to make you pay more for something that everyone would normally say why should we? and add on top new restrictions that they can pull at any time for any reason. Like I said HD is not worth giving up what is not broken. and the fact that the average joe will now have to go out and spend thousands just to watch TV in the near future is in my opinion discrimination on the largest scale ever conceived.

If this does not wake the public up finally to what atrocities the "INDUSTRY" gets away with on a regular basis, nothing will. And we 100% deserve to have nothing to watch and be charged 8 times what things cost now for the privilege to be so un-entertained.

What I said was not that my 1080p tv was looking like crap, I was saying that my old non HD tv looks just as good as my 1080p which is absolutely fine. if anything I was pissed that My uncle wasted 10k on the HD tv at all. cause it is 100% unneeded, and unwanted. And that there is No reason ANYONE should be forced to waste that kind of money on new HD stuff because its not that much better in the end anyway. Even with the best of everything and all HD content. its not worth the expense. and when you consider the hundreds of thousands of consumers with Regular DVDs that will soon learn that those DVDs are essentially garbage when played on a HDtv set in any form. well THAT is the really sad thing... You HDtv adopters are a minority forcing your product on a majority that does not want it nor can we afford it. yet you still force it down our throats and up our arses, till the only option left is yours. Thats not a free market thats a fascist market. and sooner or later it will turn around and bit you all in the arse for your ignorance and elitist attitudes.

Its bad enough to have two formats competing for your High Def dollars now lets through a third party into the mix. Don't know much about it but thought I would share it.

http://www.variety.com/a...ategoryId=2525&cs=1

Yah I saw that a few days ago. It is not looking good for that format atm. They have no studio or retail support to speak of!

Bit like HD-DVD....

LOL.. are so funny...

Universal, Paramount and Warner Brothers are so tiny, its like they have no support at all! LOL...

And yes.. I'm being sarcastic..

More spew from the local idiot.

Hmm, two of those three also release Blu-Ray.

bd vs hddvd, locked in a battle where there can be no winner. who will win??!!!

There already is a winner. Consumers.

Without this competition, do you really think 1 year after release, we'd see player prices drop so low?

If you own both players or a combo unit, the war means nothing, and you win either way because even if one format goes away, your discs will still and always work. If you own niether, but claim to be a "supporter" of BD or HD-DVD, than you are simply the loser.

Can anyone guess who I am talking about?

If you own both players and simply dedided one was better based on objective observaions, than you are truly a fan of movies and really don't care who wins.

For Dave and others that will always bring up the fact that the 360 can not do 1080p via HDMI unless you have the elite read this and cry.

http://www.dvdtown.com/n...n-regular-xbox-360/4555

What it does not tell you (which other links to this product do), is that what it is actually doing, is converting the already dodgy analog 1080P VGA signal, to a 1080P digital signal using a A-D chip, and squirting out via DVI.

I wait with baited breath, the picture quality reviews from this cable, as conversion processes are never good for picture quality.

The sampled analog signal, aside from the potential picture quality issues, has issues with the DVI, which of course, will not have HDCP, so any movies played back ont he HD DVD drive, will not work with ICT, if this ever happens.

Still nice aftermarket bodge to get cheapo 360's to have a pretend HDMI port. I support it gives them bragging rights. "me too"..

Anyone notice, that everyone was shouting how HDMI was rubbish, when 360 could not do it, now there is a bodge cable for std 360 and the Elite has HDMI 1.2, suddenly HDMI is the best thing since sliced bread...

I don't recall saying anything to even remotely indicate that HDMI is the next best thing. Actually I don't like the entire concept at all since it has all the copy protection crap attached to it.

I like the way again find a need to blast the 360. As much as you will never admit it even if you do not like the competition, competition is good. If it weren't for the 360 your worshipped PS3 would be $1000 or more instead of $600.

I frankly could care less since I bought a stand alone HD player and love it.

Dave,

I love how you turn 62% into 90%, you are such a deluded fu@k, no one in this forum takes a thing you say seriously.

You still cant give an intelligent answer as to why BD sales or so sh!tty compared to the amount of players out there compared to HD-DVD.

Okay, I've been lurking for quite a while and the fanboys on this site are really starting to irk me. I haven't decided which side is the better yet, but all these lies that keep being thrown around are really pitiful. Yes, in the beginning, Blu-Ray was using mostly mpeg2 compression schemes because the encoding houses hadn't licensed the codecs yet, but now the same exact transfer is being released on both HD-DVD and on Blu-Ray. HD-DVD has a slight advantage in the audio department because the studios are releasing DTS Master Audio only on the HD-DVD discs. But that disparity will even out soon.

As for the Sony haters out there that keep screaming that BetaMax was a failure, it was only a failure in the home department. BetaMax is still being used by production houses and broadcasters to this day. They realized the quality in it. The average home user didn't care about quality back then, it was all about money. And while money isn't totally out of the picture these days, more people are starting to understand that cheaper isn't necessarily better.

So please quit spewing all these inaccuracies. You aren't benefitting your cause when people find out you really don't know what you are talking about.

Sounds like you have made up your mind to me. Funny how a new title like Dream Girls is in Mpeg2 on Blu-ray yet VC-1 on HD DVD. Same studio different format. How about the fact that the PS3 does not even support DTS master is that going to be added via an other firmware update?

If cheaper is not as important why is Walmart making money faster then they conquer new countries? Cheap is very much alive and well in the world today.

nope, my mind isn't totally made up, but they used a higher bit rate on that mpeg 2 and didn't have to use as much compression, and most sites have rated the video on the blu ray as better than the HD DVD. While PS3 can play Blu Ray it is still a gaming console, just like the XBOX which doesn't even have an HDMI output to send the advanced audio codecs to a receiver. And most of the people don't even have a receiver to decode it so it has to be done internally on the player. By the time I buy a receiver that will do HDMI 1.3 and decode all the codecs, then I will figure out which player I want to go with.

You see, I don't own either yet, but I have done my research, especially since it's part of my job. And if you read my post correctly, I never said that money was irrelavent. My post actually says: "And while money isn't totally out of the picture these days, more people are starting to understand that cheaper isn't necessarily better". Never said that cheap people weren't still looking for handouts and freebies.

So keep spewing at me.

"and most sites have rated the video on the blu ray as better than the HD DVD."

Link?

It wasn't spewing but if you want to think that go ahead.

There are a couple of nice Onkyo devices that support HDMI 1.3 but better yet Denon is a couple of weeks away from the release of their own devices. My understanding is the Denon solution will be priced a little lower than the Onkyo. My rep wouldn't or couldn't give me much details about the Denon so I'll wait and see before I buy one.

Very much ageeed with the freebies and handouts.

I don't keep links to this whole dispute loading my bookmarks down, but I did find that DVD talk rated them equal in the video department. This was in reference to the Dreamgirls disc only. The only reason why we have the newer codecs is to save room. Given the same bitrates, yes they look better than mpeg2, but that doesn't mean that mpeg2 isn't a good standard at a high enough bit rate. it still all boils down to how much information you are removing from the primary recording. Regardless of the compression codec.

And I've also noticed that there are quite a few people who believe that Sony controls all aspects of Blu Ray. While they are the main manufacturer at the moment, the Blu Ray is a Consortium and Sony does not control it. As opposed to the HD-DVD which is only controlled by Toshiba.

I've also noticed around the net that there have been more player issues and disc issues with HD DVD. Don't ask me for links because I go to so many sites and read and digest.

So yes, right now, I would say given all of the information and disregarding the fan boys, that I'm leaning a bit towards the Blu Ray side, but my mind isn't made up yet.

The DVD Forum largely controls HD-DVD. The format is not just controlled by Toshiba. As for Blu-Ray, its MPEG 2 video is far worse than the VC-1 encoding used on HD-DVD. Also, Blu-Ray primarily uses old fashion Dolby Digital AC-3 audio while HD-DVD uses vastly superior Dolby Digital Plus and in some cases Dolby TrueHD lossless compression.

So far, the companies involved in creating HD-DVD hardware and software are the only ones that realize that sound quality is of equal importance to video quality. The idiots involved in creating Blu-Ray hardware haven't figured this out yet for the most part.

Okay, raise your hand if you have a computer monitor (since this is mainly a BD-ROM article) that has either an HDMI input or DVI with HDCP?

What you don't? And there are countless monitors out there that doesn't? Looks like a lot of consumers are in for a big disappointment.

:raises hand:

/Hdmi works great for syncing my laptop to my hdtv and looks great too :)

/not that it matters though for blu-ray as since the whole rootkit issue I tend to avoid anything Sony related.

I have one: the Gateway 24-inch LCD monitor, model# FPD2485W

All these elaborate copy protections do is screw the consumers/end-users. Any and all copy protections are going to be compromised, that is a fact of life. Media needs only one simple copy protection scheme to keep the law-abiding citizens from copying. Fighting a war against people who love cracking media is a losing battle, both for the movie studios and the community.

Ok, I realize HD-DVD and Blu-Ray fans are going to have plenty of disagreements, but can we at least get beyond one having better PQ or AQ than the other?

Yes, some titles may look better than others on each format, but its not the format that decides that, its the quality of the transfer.s

EVERY title that's on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray look better on the HD-DVD. Period.

It's not the transfer. It's the compression method.

You're absolutely wrong. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray share the same compression methods: MPEG2, h.264 and VC1. A move compressed with h.264 should look the same on both formats.

LOL! You can believe that all you want. Let's see how funny it is when HD-DUD is dead in a year.

Why ? Only if they don't use the bigger size that BluRay discs offer. A movie in MPEG-4 AVC H.264 1080p on a 50GB DualLayer BD disc surely has an higher average bitrate than on a HD-DVD disc. 20GB more space to use, a way higher bitrate.

More space to add in more copy protection!

Funny how some new titles are still transferred in the Mpeg2 format on blu-ray. Very few are done this way on HD-Dvd so the quality will be much better on HD. SOny has all this space to use yet they use old crap compression how is the superior? Granted more titles are starting so show up on better compressions schemes but that many.

A year? Have you even noticed the pace of HD is going? It will be years before anyone can say one way or the other.

Brainwashed...

HD DVD and Blu-Ray use the eaxct same decompression methods...

There is nothing actually wrong with MPEG2, given high enough bitrate, is can actually look superior to H264 and VC1. The problem is you need alot of space for high bitrate MPEG2.

Fortunatly, Blu-Ray has enough disc space.

That is not true. Several cross platform titles use MP2 on blo-ray yet VC-1 on HD.

Then why is it that so many original Blu-ray titles DID in fact look worse than HD-DVD?

Either way, arguing over PQ or AQ is just stupid. They are both going to have great quality.

You want to argue over studio, hardware support or other features, then there's actually something to discuss. Anything else is just useless.

I prefer HD-DVD, so I'm not saying this as a blu-ray fanboy.

But you are very wrong. Initially, Blu-ray titles didn't look as good. Many Blu-ray titles are now using VC1 and look just as good.

Most other quality differences are typically in the transfer.

He probably should have said supported - Both formats support the same methods.

So in the end, they can both have nearly identical quality.. enough so that its hardly worth arguing over.

Simple, because they were MPEG2 on 25GB single layer.

MPEG2 is not a bad codec visually (it can be very good), but it's compression is nowehere near as good as VC1 or H264/AVC, and is therefore reliant upon lots of disc space to get equal or better than AVC results.

Because Blu-Ray was starting out, 50GB Blu-Ray was thin on the ground, and MPEG2 authoring software was the norm, which resulted in poor looking transfers (not really poor, not not as good as they could have been).

These days authoring software can do MPEG2/AVC/VC1, and 50GB discs are now more plentiful, then simply judging something as being bad, purely based on it being MPEG2 may be premature.

IF these releases are MPEG2 and on 25GB discs, then yes I would avoid them, otherwise, MPEG2 is still a fine codec, that required minimal resources to decode.

5...4...3...2...1...0:
BD+ have been cracked by a 15 years old boy.

No protection will ever survive. http://www.doom9.org/

Hollywood__, you are a filthy sucker. That`s for sure now!
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
http://www.dvdempire.com...Features/hidef_wars.asp

Ah so Blo-Ray has all these players and yet they can't even sell 2x what HD-DVD is selling. They are barely selling 50% more than HD-DVD. Thank you for helping prove my point Dave. Then whenever HD-DVD has a price drop even more people will buy their set-tops(you know the ones that actually buy movies for them), and then it is bye bye Blo-Ray.

What are you talking about? Blu-ray is outselling HD-DUD 9:1 in movies and 5:1 in players...
On top of that Blu-ray has much, much larger support while HD-DUD have ... well Universal...

Support is big, but there's also a downside to it.

With all of the studios supporting Blu-ray, how much do you think each individual studio is making? (NOTE: Everything being made right now on HD-DVD OR Blu-ray is pretty insignificant anyway)

It seems to me that Universal is quite smart. They are likley making as much as many of the Blu-ray studios, since they have a lot less support on the HD-DVD side and HD-DVD's are still selling well.

Seems Paramount and WB are very smart too supporting both and taking in money on both sides.

"Blo-ray is outselling HD-DVD 9:1 in movies and 5:1 in players..."

Thats funny Dave considering I got my numbers for one of the links you posted. Shows that Blo-Ray only outsold HD-DVD by 17.2% this week and 24.92% for the year. In "players" HD-DVD is outselling Blo-Ray about 4:1. As the numbers show those few PS3 buyers aren't buying very many movies.

Here is someone who is completely detached from reality.

Lol...You get used to it after dealing with all these Sony fanboys. They are never in touch with reality.

You just realized that?

Once again, sh!thead posts a link that clearly shows BD leading 2 to 1 over HD-DVD movie sales but he says 9 to 1 in his post.

You're losing it man.

Go to school and you may learn to count to 10 idiot.

More than 70% choose BD, that about 90% actually which is 9:1.

http://hddvdsucks.com/

Yeah, sure... "little kids cracking crypto systems" .. please ! And maybe designing modchips as well, uh ?
Do you really believe these false marketing myths ?
The "magical pop-up" of cracks and hacks is drive by the industry itself.. there are the same professional programmers and coders that designed the products in the first place behind all of this, unless you would believe in fairy tales...

"More than 70% choose BD, that about 90% actually which is 9:1."
Dave we all speak English in this forum. You should try it some time.

http://hddvdsucks.com/
Oh look and he used a link that is completely unbiased....Oh wait.

You must have got your math degree in fantasy land since the numbers do not back your fabricated statement.

I dont and i will never speak english :)

Who cares about bias? You are dumb sony hater afterall.

Here is another site for you:
http://www.blurayfreak.com/

Only you Dave would have links to all these fanboy sites. I get my info from real sites, instead of some fanboys fantasy website.

"You are dumb sony hater afterall."
Obviously I am smarter than you. But I am a Sony hater you got me there. I don't appreciate their overpriced garbage bundled with rootkits and BS copy protection software.

Nice that you can post sites that aren't biased like you. SOny gives everyone reasons to hate them batteries that explode, rootkits, and many other failed formats. Maybe one day you will open your eyes and understand that Sony can and will screw you again if given the chance.

nigga wtf?
http://hddvdsucks.com/?
http://www.blurayfreak.com/?

nigga wtf is wrong with your mind son?? sh!t if i had you right here i would just beat the crap out of you mofo cuz you dont even post reliable sh!t

I install and maintain the machines which make Blue-Ray as well as HD-DVD disc's. Sometimes quality out-weighs cost. It will cost more money to manufature Blue-Ray disc's than HD-DVD disc's. Everyone that has been able to judge the quality of each, as well as me, agree Blue-Ray DVD disc's have better quality of picture. As for the copy protection I say, u better be a smart mofo.

Really? This sounds like someone I know. Do you have a BD and an HD-DVD player in your house where you can A/B the pictures on the same monitor?

If you didnt throw that silly little sentence ("Everyone that has been able to judge the quality of each, as well as me, agree Blue-Ray DVD disc's have better quality of picture") in there, people might actually believe you Dave.

I think you are running out of new names to come up with. Please point us to other posts you have made prior to today, secbrb.

I thought so.

"As for the copy protection I say, u better be a smart mofo."

This statement has no historical basis. Every major copy protection to date has been cracked with very little effort by the community. When it's cracked, it's trivial to pass that knowledge on to other people.

Remove DRM and the format war is won.
Simple as that.

Soo.. Everybody will need to buy a new Blu-ray player now?

Yes, both people who bought one already.

Just like all the Sony DVD players that were left in the dust with the new copy protection scheme for DVD. Nothing like giving it to the people that buy your stuff. Sony does not care about the consumer only their bottom line so the assult against the consumer will remain common practice. Thank you Sony.

This is exactly why they haven't, and you don't want Sony to win a format war.

Oh, I see, BD+ essentially replicates the '80s copy protection mechanism of each title having it's own special OS that loads when you boot the disk. They evidently believe (falsely) that the DMCA will protect them from an arms race similar to the one that ensued back in the 80's (when the media format in question was the 5.25" floppy). The only difference will be they can wield the DMCA to more easily sue the pants off of anyone they catch breaking the BD+ protections, but I suspect history will still repeat itself.

Add to this the fact that HD DVD *requires* publishers to support Managed Copy, but for Blu-ray it is optional. If you feel you must buy into one of these two formats now, it looks like HD DVD is the more consumer friendly of the two.

Me, I'm in no hurry, as I'm still waiting for the right HD display to come along before I start the *major* upgrade cycle for my home theater that HD DVD or Blu-ray would require.

Oh gee, another copy protection thats going to fix everything.

I think the next natural step in anti-piracy measures is to incorporate media players with high explosive charges. People will think twice before inserting "bad media" into their players, or any media for that matter.

What would really be hilarious to see is the format protection to hit the market, and malfunction on a massive scale and disable hundreds of thousands of BD players by accident. Then there will be such a huge outcry that the resultant class-action lawsuits will foster new laws that prevent DRM from doing such a thing ever again, if not banning it altogether.

Whoa... as if Blu-Ray wasn't unpopular enough already.
But hey - just go ahead and do yourself in, all the better for it!
This BD+ crap will only make more and more people still switch to HD-Dvd, and it will be hacked in no time as well.

Just wondering how many people actually know what HD is or what these Blue rays and HD DVDs are. Not many and even less care one way or the other, let alone start wondering what kind of protections the disc has or doesnt.

I truly believe that both formats will be around for a long time.

The average person at this time could care less about HD or Blu-ray.

Hmmm...disliking Blu-Ray more the more I read about it.

Geez Sony, it's for playing !@#$ing movies, numbskulls, it's not like you lack the resources to crackdown on the theives--hell, you spent billions on that da**ed PS3 game system, why not spend some money catching those that steal rather than punish everybody with all this garbage?

Sure, proactive measures are good, but not when the measures affect those that obey the copywright laws as well as those who break them...I mean, how many problems will the Blu-Ray players have that *aren't* related to the 34% copy protection, 66% movie?

Danggit, now I know why Blu-Ray discs have to hold so much frikin data...

Sony: "All your home entertainment base are belong to us."

Now you see why many of us (perhaps the smarter ones ;) support HD-DVD.

Blu-ray is really only beneficial to the studios - there is nothing on it that will benefit consumers.

I second that! This BD+ crap is typical Sony BS. Rootkit anyone?

you understand its the consumer that purchases the product, you buy what they sell. if blu-ray benefits studios, studios will use blu-ray to distribute their content. sure they lose HD-DVD 'supporters' such as yourself but they don't care. almost every argument i've seen on here in support of hd-dvd had nothing to do with less copy protection it had everything to do with pricing as the 'average' consumer will purchase based on price, well if all the studios eventually support blu-ray the 'average' consumer wont have a choice and the sheep will still buy what they are offered.
if studios don't support a format, the format dies, sony has learned from what happened with beta max.

sony has learned from what happened with beta max.

Yeah right. If you look at this Blu-Ray crap, you can clearly see that it's still the same low-quality garbage as Betamax. Sony never learned a damn thing, which is why their formats after Betamax (MiniDisc, Umd) failed just as badly, and they're still doing crap like putting rootkits on CDs. Now they're trying "Rootkit 2.0" with this BD+ crap. BluRay will fail just as badly as Betamax. People will rather stick with Dvd or take HD-Dvd.
Giving people no choice would be the dumbest they can do, as you would see a great increase of people rather d/ling movies via P2P than wasting money on BluRay crap. The industry would thus just shoot into their own foot with that.

"you buy what they sell."

See you have this all backwards. They sell what you buy. It doesn't work the other way around. Sony a lot of times seems to go by this philosophy though.

"well if all the studios eventually support blu-ray the 'average' consumer wont have a choice and the sheep will still buy what they are offered."

When the Blo-Ray movies stop selling and the HD-DVD movies start selling they WILL switch over. Copy protection doesn't do them any good if they don't sell any.

"sony has learned from what happened with beta max."

They did? Looks like the same situation all over to me.

His was about money?
I think not.

almost every argument i've seen on here in support of hd-dvd had nothing to do with less copy protection it had everything to do with pricing

you have to read all of it before you jump on it to be an anti hd-dvd comment

They learned from Betamax I don't think so. Didn't SOny also make UMD and a failed hd sound on disk there are others. They have learned nothing. They will continue to force this on people until we finally accept it.

So the truth is finally revealed.

It's not about HD-DVD being better quality (despite no evidence to prove this, and common sense dictating that Blu-Ray has th spec to provide better quality).

It's actually about DRM and people hating Sony.

Whats next Sony locking the disk to a player? Oh yeah they have that patent. We'll see a load of mad fanboys when the crap movies and games out and they can't unload then since they are locked to their hardware. We'll see if you are still in bed with Sony when they whak you in the head with this protection. No more trades, renting, and borrowing. Sony admits to the technology and what better way to implement it than blo-ray.

That is exactly why I avoid any format created by Sony. The only thing keeping them from unleashing this crap right now is HD-DVD.

When are these morons going to learn that the whole concept of DRM is broken?

These sorts of technology just create more problems for consumers than for hackers. I could see a big problem for those buying disks and discovering that they don't work, especially those who may have bought them second hand. And what about library copies?

Exactly, and as for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray they are both dead ends anyway. Movies are going to be streamed directly into homes on demand in the future, through satellite, broadband cable or some other service. "Buying" movies on a plastic disc is a soon to be outdated concept. Might as well be fighting over 8-tracks vs Quadraphonic tape cartridges.

God I hope that the answer is not streaming. I hope the public stands tall against this. If you do not buy they will not procede.

I don't think we will be seeing a "full" move to online movies. The reason being is there are still a lot of people out there that still can't get anything but satellite for broadband. Satellite internet can not support a bunch of movie downloads. The market for "movies on a plastic disc" will very likely decrease, but it wont cease to exist.

To be fair it wouldn't have to be streaming in the internet sense. More like a system where you could basically order any movie you want to watch and you could see it right away. Sort of like pay per view except you'd be able to choose any movie or show you want and see it right away.

I'm just seriously wondering why is both Hitachi and Sony trying to push HD-DVD and BDs... Most Japanese houses got 100Mbps connections now, with 200Mbps coming soon, what are the need for those discs ??

As long as the website is domestic, you'd get a 1Gb file at around 2-3 MB(byte)/sec...

And what do you do on the road? What about when you want to take a movie to a friends or to a vacation home?

Physical media is going to be with us for a long time. And regardless of what speed people have going to their houses, there are bandwidth limits else where. Do you really think every home has a dedicated 100Mbps connection? Its shared and its much more likely they'll hit a bottleneck at the remote end.

Most houses my ***. Even if Japanese did, which they dont, have all 100Mbps connections the rest of the world dont. Rest of the world is either on dial-up or DSL.

Yeah umm, they already have this and it's been around a while. It's called VOD (Video-on-Demand) and a lot of cable companies offer it.

I download around 2-3megabyte/sec at my home,
and on the move, I use my cellphone as internet so it's much slower (1.5mbps) so I get around 150KB/sec in the cities, and 40-50KB/sec in the rural areas.

Yes it's shared, but you can get a non-shared one for a little extra, and even shared ones, since there's so many old people, it doesn't slow it down by a lot.

This is true but my cable company does not offer any movies in HD on demand.

So 3 months time, all Blu-Ray studios have movies in protected format, and poor old Universal have all their movies on Bittorrent.

IF (big if), BD+ is secure for the next 6 months or so, then this will make things very uncomfortable for HD DVD and it's supporter.

Not that it really matters, as there are now 5x more Blu-Ray players out there than HD DVD.

BD+ will be cracked in no time, just like every other form of DRM that has been attempted. If you believe otherwise you're deluded. Then again I've got to remember that you're one of the biggest fanboy tools on the internet and most everything you say is a load of bs anyway. If it were the other format that was getting the extra DRM you would be slandering them and saying that adding more restrictions would be the death of them.

By the way, nobody gives a **** what format you or anyone else likes. The constant rah rah Sony rah rah Univeral cheerleading is pathetic, do you realize what douchebags you fanboys sound like? Is your life so empty and meaningless that you have to take sides in a video format war, as if "your" format winning means that "you" have won something?

"BD+ will be cracked in no time, just like every other form of DRM that has been attempted. If you believe otherwise you're deluded."

Yep. Give them about a week and it will be cracked. Hell sometime it doesn't even take that long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy

Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors that differ from their point of view. Fanboys are also typically aggressive and hateful towards the opposing brand or competition of their obsession regardless of its merits or achievements.

You are complete fool if you think that any protection that they make will not be cracked.. But then again we all know you are a fool.

so fuking true dude!

There is one problem in your little theory here Dave. If they release this copy protection, consumers WILL start moving to HD-DVD. This is the reason why nobody likes Sony formats and all of them have failed. Blo-Ray is likely to follow the same old beaten path as the rest of their formats. Also as stated below, if you think that they can't crack this then you must be on crack! Like I have said before. If man made it, man can take it apart.

Hey Dave,

First of all you are wrong, there are about 23 times as many BD players (including PS3) as there are HD-DVD (including all stand alone and 360 add-ons).

But you still can't give an intelligent answer as to why movie sales are only 2 to 1 over HD-DVD. Even if they were 5 to 1 it would still be considered a failure.

Why is that Dave?

You always dodge any direct questions regarding your beloved Sony products (that you don't own) because you don't have an answer.

The attach rate of BD movies to players and the PS3 is pathetic compared to HD-DVD.

And I'm still waiting for Cars on BD, which will be my first actual disc purchase, because I don't include Ricky Bobby as part of my movie collection as it was free and I'm very tired of watching it.

By all accounts, Cars should be the best looking HD movie available on any format. What happened to Cars on BD Dave? Pushed back again, and again, and again. You of all people should be able to answer this question. Where is the only movie I wanted a BD player for? And perhaps the Pirates collection if and when it ever comes out as a set.

By the way, you are the exact definition in that post below. You do realize that don't you?

Where's all those guys who supposedly aren't you defending themselves? Steve? Benjamin? Batman?

(line deleted)

Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors that differ from their point of view. Fanboys are also typically aggressive and hateful towards the opposing brand or competition of their obsession regardless of its merits or achievements. A lot of fanboys don't even own the equipment they are cheerleading e.g. "Dave" over at the blu-ray.com forum and "DaveBG/GB" and many aliases he uses at BetaNews.com to appear as several people, all with the same opinion.

And lastly, the boys over at Doom9 will crack any BD or HD-DVD protection a week after it's introduced.

Ooh! I like that definition!! A LOT! and all this time I thought it was some dude going by that name lol, but I didn't know it was actually a term lmao...

"You should kill yourself."

Remove that line and you won't sound like a whiny 13-year-old.

See Also:

Apple
Linux

I concur.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but aren't all these movies still being released on DVD? Seems to me they'll ALL be on bittorrent anyway. And what's the quality on bittorrent? Will it look good blown up on my 92" screen?

Fact is, those that are going to steal will find a way. Those that are honest will buy it.

And technically speaking, there are 5x more Blu-Ray players, but the reality is that 1 for 1, the HD-DVD owners are buying more titles. Last I checked, HD-DVD has a much higher attach rate. But feel free to keep including every single PS3 in the numbers, it just makes that attach rate look worse and worse every time one gets sold.

Well said Alex.

Where do you get 23x?

Divide 3.5 million by 150,000.

Why would consumers switch to HD-DVD because of a n additional Blu-Ray-copy protection? Consumers who buy legit discs aren't going to notice anything different. The discs still work. The only people who will notice are pirates.

Copy protection is never going to bother the pirates. The pirates will have it cracked in a week.

The reason being because if the player they bought does not support the new tech, why would they go and pay more money again for something that may or may not work because of another update to it.

5.5 million now...

http://www.telegraph.co....luray124.xml&page=1

"it contains a Blu-ray DVD player, and so far 5.5m models have been sold worldwide."

Still I'm sure some idiots will try and discredit the Telegraph as a trustworhy news source...

ROFL!!!! Considering the pathetic sales the PS3 has been having there is no way in hell they have sold anywhere near 5.5 million. Keep living in your little fantasy land Dave.

Even if that were the case you have to admit that the attach rate for blu-ray movie sales are terrible when compared to HD.

I am sure you wont.

Of course the attach rate will be lower, many of these PS3's will rarely (if ever) see a Blu-Ray movie.

However, the sheer numbers, you cannot discount that even if 20% of them are used as players (which is a very conservative estimate), tben HD DVD is in trouble...

Not my data, The Telegraph..

Who would you trust, a load of Xbox trailer trash that frequent here, or a premier UK newspaper?

Lol. Dave there is no way you can spin this one to a positive. If you can't see that those numbers are off then you are more blinded by your fanboy love for Sony than I thought. I don't care who wrote it, those numbers do are not possible with the way the PS3 sales are going and you and I both know it.

You have no idea what PS3 sales are like on a global scale, you rely on actual figures from North America (NPD), and global estimated data from fanboy sites...

yup, be the fickle consumer, that's what i say. These companies should be begging for our money, not us for their products. Only be loyal to a brand till the next brand comes out with something better.

also add : riddled with confirmation bias.

"Not my data, The Telegraph"

"Premier UK newspaper"

- LMAO.

Jeez you can tell you're not from the UK alright.

Like 'The Telegraph' got it's "data" from anyone but the Sony people they quote.....

....or has much credibility anyways
(it's, like several others we have, something of a standing joke for bias here in the UK).

Try finding stuff out & thinking for yourself once in a while before relying on idiotic & highly dubious claims and then making your own based on that type of laughable nonsense.

You're projecting again Dave.

The only one I ever see here relying on "fanboy sites (and being dumb enough to regularly use them for links) is you.

You abviously missed all those Blu-ray movies out on bittorrent right now Dave.

You're also missing the fact that people like to copy their (currently very expensive) high def movie discs 'just in case'.

What we don't like are the constant updates, compatability problems and all the rest of the cr@p that goes with complex and unnecessary - and in the end so utterly pointless - wildly expensive layers of so-called 'security.

We like to be able to use the property we buy as we like and do not want to be stuck with having to pay for new 'keys' regularly
(oh yes they love to keep this one quiet -

"BD-MV playback at HD quality has very strict copy protection integrated and managed by the Advanced
Access Content System License Administrator (AACS LA), and software manufacturers are required to
include the AACS key management in the play back software.
These AACS play back keys are only valid for a predefined and limited period of time. Customers
generally have to buy new AACS keys every 15 months.

With the Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB the customer can playback BD movies produced until April 2009.

To play back movies produced after April 2009, the customer has to purchase a renewal of the key."

link to pdf press release from plextor: http://www.plextor.be/pr...sheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf

HD DVD at least mandates a system of 'managed copy', BD just leaves it optional - and as we can see with this BD+ sh*te we're extremely unlikely to get even that.

Good to see you being brave enough to come out & reveal your true colours as a corporate supporting grovelling bi*ch & sticking up for those anti-consumer fu*kers and their 'brave new world' plans.

......or did you just not know about having to pay (rent?) for what you thought was supposed to be 'own property' to work properly over time?

(maybe now you'll run away again and make some dumb remark - totally contradicting your own jibe at Universal lacking this so-called 'protection' - about how it doesn't matter & will be cracked anyways?)

I get most of my numbers from this website right here. But I guess you think Betanews is a fanboy site too! Dave you are the one that uses nothing but fanboy sites, and the links you post prove it.

And if you were REALLY in the UK, you would know that The Telegraph is a reputable source...

If I has read it in the Mirror, Sun or Sunday Sport :-), then I wouldn't have believed it...

I know sometimes it's hard to digest news that you don't like, but that's the way it goes.

"However, the sheer numbers, you cannot discount that even if 20% of them are used as players (which is a very conservative estimate), tben HD DVD is in trouble..."

That is where you're wrong Dave. There is still a VERY large number of people out there that don't even have an HDTV set yet. Then all of the people that have an HDTV is not buying Blo-Ray obviously or the numbers would be better. "20% of them are used as players (which is a very conservative estimate)" The sales prove that 20% is an overstatement. That is far from a "conservative estimate."

ROFL ofcourse the UK thinks it's a reputable source! It lies to them to make them feel better! You are seriously delusional if you think there are 5.5m PS3s out there. Wake up Dave. Lets come back to reality.

Dave I live in the UK & you don't.

Don't try & tell me who are 'respectable' newspapers.

You're only trying to say this about 'The Telegraph' cos it suits your agenda right now.

Never mind that there are also other papers just like it's still a 100% absolute fact that 'The Telegraph' is a long-standing joke here for bias and heavily slanted 'news' coverage.

I can assume you havn't walked into a Best Buy in the last 12 months. Try buying a TV that's NOT HD.

There are some real idiots here.

You lie.. And you have no idea where I live. You are very wrong, I am UK based.

DRM is never, ever, ever going to stop people from copying movies. Ever. All that it does is annoy legitimate customers and cause problems for them, as well as being a huge waste of time and money for the companies.

Exactly. DRM does nothing but harm the people that don't pirate the films.

You are so correct sir!

It's an interesting development, and certainly a key point for consumers and movie studios alike to both be happy with.

The current AACS scheme is great for movie studios but crap for consumers once their player gets revoked. This goes *some* way to sorting that out.

It's still a s*** situation, but it's better than it was.