I've got the next slogan for Microsoft's new add campaign. "Microsoft, One major fu@& up after another." Or how about "Microsotf, Your EX software company because we like to PEE on you."

I just do not install WGA on any of my pirate XP machines...

Yeah, that would be all but one PC in the house.

I haven't ran into anything I needed to have it installed for yet.

I purchased my legal copy of XP from NewEgg. I legally installed it on _one_ computer and successfully activated it. Later I installed a second hard drive. Now whenever I try to validate XP to download updates Microsoft says my copy is counterfeit. On principle, I refuse to jump through hoops just to prove to MS that I already paid them money. Stop punishing your paying customers Microsoft!

Hmmm...

Software stops working properly, and instead of looking to the company that made it to support it, you just sit back and take it?

Nice.

Gotta get more people like you as customers. When my software stops working properly, they all call me b****ing about it. I wish they were all like you.

*laughs*

Ya know...suckers.

Nice

this is with sp 3 right?

LOL!

Read this yesterday from another source and the first thing that came to mind was:

"Cheap".

Next...

I would love to know what their prediction is for false positives - 1%? This is just a test to see how well they can execute and then turn it up a little more.

http://afewtips.com

Just another entry into the long list of why I don't like Microsoft's corporate policies. :(

Is it because you pirate, or because you feel pity for those poor pirates?

personally, i am neither pirate nor sympathizer, but i don't like having my legit PAID version of my operating system flagged as counterfeit.

*laughs*

Then own a legit copy and unless you're one of the rare unlucky ones, you'll never have to worry about it.

and unless you're one of the rare unlucky ones

That might be the issue. There is a long record of false positives with WGA. I can care less as I have both OEM and VLK legit products at home and work that have no such issues but I understand and SAW that the process is not fail proof.

In any case, as someone said, pirates will never be overcome with these tactics as they hack WGA in a couple of days. The issue is then more relevant for false positives.

There is a long record of false positives with WGA.

No. There is a long record of people whining and b****ing about the *possibility* of it happening. The failures are rare.

I understand and SAW that the process is not fail proof.

One != many. *No* software is failproof.

In any case, as someone said, pirates will never be overcome with these tactics as they hack WGA in a couple of days

It's not targeted at them....obviously.

You want to know something amusing? I dislike WGA. Can't stand it. I want it dead, like the folks in my backyard. I just don't try to come up with lame justifications for my dislike of it.

who needs to download that? just block the backdoor of Microsoft called Automatic Updates.
for installing the crappy internet explorer when we have beautiful firefox? for installing the useless windows media player when we have media player classic and winamp?

the first thing i do when installing windows is close the backdoor.

...and you install other updates manually, correct?

You're not stupid enough to run it without ever updating the OS, are you?

there are a lot of other programs out there that do a better job.

There are other tools to get the updates you want for your XP.

Well aware of that, which was kind of my point. Hopefully he's using those and not going without the updates.

(by his post below, I think he's getting them)

I don't get it....

Anyone using a non legit version of XP will just avoid installing the WGA program anyway...
Its not built into the OS, its an update obtained from MS.

I think the term 'counterfeit' is funny in regard to copies of Windows. I think that ReactOS or any platform running Wine deserve that term much more (and proudly!)

Well I better put on a background. My background is already black. What it should do is put up an ad for windows and some anti-piracy propaganda.

Whatever, I'm moving to Slackware soon anyway

Would it not be easier for MS to just lower the price of their software so that more people can afford genuine copies? All these nagging stuff simple makes for less usable software. Cost of software now exceeds the cost of the software. For the average user, it now makes a lot of sense to switch over to Linux. Linux is still not too user-friendly yet but the average user who just needs office productivity software, internet access and emailb would hardly suffer any disadvantage.

What I think is funny is that I have licensed copies of Windows XP Professional and Vista Home Premium and am using a 'counterfeit' copy as I used an auto installer that was streamlined to begin with. I happily run patches and cracks to get around everything as my licenses are for OEM copies of software =)

This isn't to stop the people who are whining about the price. WGA/OGA/etc all exist mainly to stop "casual piracy", not entitled children.

i agree with you .. But If MS did lower the price people would not become pirates.

I myself like to buld computers for myself as a hobby
I find it hard to pay for 6 operating systems (xp Professional @ $140.00 a pop. Just to stay legal
http://www.newegg.com/St...;name=Operating-Systems

I've seen people try to pirate free software. Lowering the price probably won't have much effect.

Same argument I have about greedy music companies and overpriced CDs.

I agree with you.

Same here, bought OEM XP Pro & later had to upgrade due to hardware failure. According to MS I need to shell out another $150 or so.

Glad I bought retail Vista Ultimate cause I may have a similar problem now & it's not as easy to get around activation for Vista.

I'm not advocating out & out piracy,and I realize businesses need to make money to stay afloat, but the average person barely makes enough to buy the software once, let alone multiple times for the same pc due to unforseen/necessary hardware changes. And as for 2-3 minutes on the phone...it took me a LOT longer than that to reactivate on the original hardware after a format, after a few times of that & I say my time is valuable too...crack & be done with that insanity. Again, this is software I paid my hard earned money for.

See my argument above about how lowering the price of something probably won't help reduce piracy if people are willing to try to pirate free software.

But If MS did lower the price people would not become pirates.

Unproven and contradicted by facts. We can now buy songs instead of CDs for less than $1. Piracy continues to increase.

People pirate $3.99 "Deskscapes", FFS.

$140 of a $600+ computer...doesn't quite sound as bad. If you've got the money to float the parts for 6 PCs, you can buy the OSes. You just don't want to.

of course i dont want to because it cost to much ....

IF I MAY RESTATE But If MS did lower the price LESS people would become pirates.

LESS people would become pirates.

May I ask what you are basing that on?

There is no evidence of this. In fact, there is plenty to the contrary. Digital Music is cheap. Dirt cheap...and Music piracy is obviously *not* going down.

It used to cost $19 to get your favorite song. Now it costs less than $1.

Same here, bought OEM XP Pro & later had to upgrade due to hardware failure. According to MS I need to shell out another $150 or so.

Wow!

You're anecdotal evidence clearly contradicts mine! Why, I've had to call them *twice* when reinstalling Windows XP, once because the mainboard fried (warranty replacement) and once because ... well, it just didn't pass.

Both OEM, both times, they reactivated it, both calls took less than 2 minutes.

Perhaps "later" was 3 years? 6? Hardware failure due to age probably is considered as you trying to rip *them* off.

PC i dont want to argue :) I just think Microsoft should not charge as much as they do thats all... and it would be in the right step to help curb casual piracey.....

i dont want to argue

Bah! Lies, I tell you!

and it would be in the right step to help curb casual piracey

I honestly disagree. IMO, casual piracy comes from lack of knowledge and someone on the "in" who offers it to them. (An example would be a college kid who is tired of dealing with the XP slowdown on his parents computer at home and installs his copy of Vista on it in an effort to get rid of it, or the opposite...parents get a PC with Vista and the kid installs XP because he can't get used to the new interface)

They aren't concerned about cost, it's just "easy". MSFT themselves never defined it as a malicious form of piracy, they look at it as though the user didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

"Bah! Lies, I tell you!"

LOL ........

btw.. I was talking to the I.T. guys at a company next door to mine and i discoverd that with my obsesion with computers I know almost as much as they do !!

So i am now curently taking a I.T. class at me local college

Excellent idea. You are at least guaranteed something above minimum wage at that point. ;)

That's actually damn near how I got into it. Didn't actually get any formal schooling in IT until I found myself taking on the role of IT for one of the companies I worked for ... and not being paid appropriately for it.

Took a few certs on their dime and climbed the ladder until I decided to take the consulting route. Haven't looked back since.

You might just want to skip the whole ladder climbing bit, though. Consulting and contracting are where it's at.

yep.... thanks for the good info...

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Microsoft is not really going after those who knowingly download illegal copies of Windows, those pirated copies are already hacked to deal with WGA etc, but I'm sure they do catch a few.
They are going after those who sell/install pirated copies on computers they sell claiming it's all legal.

Microsoft must at this point have a few names of people who do such illegal activities and what I'm really curious about is are they actively pursuing such individuals, if not they should.

Yes. Our MS rep came around one day and told us they had fined one of our competitors in the area $70,000AUD for selling counterfeit copies of Windows and Office products.

It was good to hear too, because we struggle to compete against those doing the wrong thing. :p

http://technet.microsoft...s/library/bb457054.aspx

"One form of piracy, estimated to be as high as 50%, is known as casual copying. Casual copying is the sharing and installation of software on multiple PCs in violation of the software's end user license agreement (EULA). Microsoft has developed product activation as one solution to reduce this form of piracy."

... Why Blacken??
I set all my backgrounds to black in the first place. Now this is going to make me looks like all my desktop is like pirated or something.

If you have a legit copy no big deal.

Have a nice day:)

Perhaps this will assist you in choosing a more relaxing desktop color that will be more restful to your eyes and beneficial to your long term health?

Our company's default wallpaper is pure black.
lol.

So, you're all pirates. :P

Personally, my windows is geniune. No problems here, but still, can someone please explain to me why the hell would i even want to download this? I mean it's like, driving home from work every day and stopping in the the local precinct and saying, hey guys id like to volunteer for a breathalyzer. I just don't get the "advantage" here i guess.

The only benefit is some applications require WGA in order to be downloaded and installed. IE 7 had this requirement when it was released... after a year or so WGA was no longer required and it became an optional available installation in the auto updates.

riight, so Microsoft thinks they can black out a picture of my girlfriends smiling face because I wouldn't pay $200, I THINK NOT!

*installs ubuntu and walks off into the sunset*

Put a picture frame of her next to your desktop - that way you'll definately one-up Microsoft!

Bug them. They need to get a legal copy of Windows. Hate MS or not, it's theft, period, and no amount of rationalization makes it acceptable.

When I can install and activate using my bought and paid for OEM serial (as in the price of the PC would have been $200 less without windoze), I'll agree with you. Until then... asking me to buy again what I've already paid for simply because I updated components of the PC is bloody ridiculous - no matter how they do it.

Hm. I've used the same OEM copy of XP on three different pcs and swapped out the hardware more times then I can count.

1. Its only on one pc at a time
2. It takes all of 2-5 mins to activate it
3. A company is protecting its product OMG!! those bas****s!

XP didn't have the same rigid requirements that Office or Vista so no big deal.

Have a nice day:)

shame shame. did you not read your licensing agreement? Your one copy of windows XP isnt licensed to YOU, it's licenced to the first pc you install it on...

Actually it's copyright infringement. Theft would stealing a legitimate copy of Windows from the store and installing that. In which case you wouldn't get any errors or problems with WGA. :p

So no, you're are 100% wrong. :p

That's my one argument about the whole thing, although I'm not exactly up and arms about it... more amused than anything.

You know... Microsoft should allow users under this scenario to download the 'counterfeit' wallpaper so that they they can get the same features as everyone else =)

In fact, the EULA says nothing about the copy of windows being licensed to the first pc you install it on. It does, however, go onto say that you're limited to 7 points of hardware upgrade at any one activation. Motherboards are 4 points, CPU, graphic cards and network cards are 3, everything else is 1 point. Peripherals are 0 points.

So you could swap out the motherboard and CPU and windows would not need to be reactivated but the hardware hash on the authentication servers would be updated. Then you can go and replace the network card, graphics card etc.

Failing that, you can call the customer activation line and the rep will reset it for you. The only question they'll ask is if you're installing it on multiple computers.

This is the same for OEM and retail license from Microsoft. OEM copies of windows may have additional restrictions but they're not created by Microsoft but rather then company/person you installs the OEM copy of Windows on your machine.

Call 'em.

If you're installing that version of windows on only one system, you should be fine.

OEM does not transfer to a new machine however, and if you paid for it expecting that, tough s***. That's just not what the discounted OEM version is for.

Maybe that way people will learn they have to pay for other people work !. and if you don't like it, install Linux or get a Mac.

So, they want their loyal fan base to go for Linux? if the majority of computers in the world use Windows is because of pirated software, because someone else have pre-installed it when they buy the computer.

Windows is the most used operating system in the world, that's why software companies prefer to make their products mainly compatible to Windows. now, how many copies of Windows have been sold? compare the numbers.

if they are forcing us to go Linux, fine, it's free, open source, makes the most out of your hardware, no virus attacks, and no nagging.

it's a good thing that they are trying to take their products out of the hands of the majorities, forcing them to search for alternatives. like when they decided to take every skin that looks like vista out of the web. that gives the other styles a chance to shine.

go ahead Microsoft, continue with that road, you are soon gonna be forgotten. thank you for committing suicide. :)

So, if you made a product and there was a fee for it and everyone just stole it you would be perfectly ok with this?

They are committing suicide for punishing people that aren't paying for it?

Do you read what you type before you post?

I think the point is, the people who are going to pirate windows will do so anyway and won't bat an eye at modifying the code. So things like WGA get a workaround built and causes no problems to people who pirate windows. However, for the most part, people who buy legit versions of windows are having to put up with more and more annoyances. For example, you want to go download windows media player 11 or internet explore 7, you have to first jump through hoops to get the activex wga plugin to work, and you can only do it using IE, then when you try to intall you have to have your machine checked to make sure you've activated Windows.
There are endless problems with WGA and legit people having problems, it even blocked access to 1000s of machines when the authentication servers went off line last year. Pirate users were laughing so hard, they did not have any problems.

because of pirates the windows operating system became the most used operating system in the world.
that spreading attracts software companies because they want to reach the largest audience possible. if all the computers that have windows installed would have it legit, the rest of the computers made would have another operating system, something different than windows. and the computers that have pirate windows overpass the computers that have legit windows. so, if those computers that have pirate windows would have something different, software companies would made their products for that something else, trying to reach the largest audience possible.
free is publicity. look at what is happening with the RIAA. they decided to fight pirates and where are they now? the majority of their followers were pirates. they cut the cord and now they are drowning.
what creates a pirate? why don't everybody just buy it? because the majority can not afford it. its way too expensive and you got to have something making your hardware work.

because of pirates the windows operating system became the most used operating system in the world.

As far as the operating system goes, *that* was due to licensing agreements.

The argument of Piracy as advertisement is BS.

look at what is happening with the RIAA. they decided to fight pirates and where are they now? the majority of their followers were pirates.

*laughs*

Yeah....right. The majority of consumers are pirates? What are you smoking?

what creates a pirate? why don't everybody just buy it? because the majority can not afford it

If that were the case, they'd lower prices. The *majority* pays for it. The Entitled Twats pirate it.

Wow, that was just utterly painful to read.

Anyways, so someone can put together a pc for $500 but can't pay for the OS to run on it?

That's some great logic there, really.

Everyone uses the same excuse for music "Wahhh $10 is too much for a CD I can't afford it but I am entitled to it because I want it"

Give me a break...

I'd find it interesting if Psystar wins its case against OSX if Apple will still keep protection off of it once its able to run on any PC...

I cannot think of another company that treats its customers like probable criminals as Microsoft does.

so your saying people who install windows illegally are not criminals? i am willling to bet your using a ripped version of windows on your PC so enjoy those blackouts LOL

if you got a legal copy of windows installed on your system you have nothing to worry about. the cases of legal not passing WGA tests is slim to none

See the oval thing down to the lower right of this message? It's called a reply button ;)

See the oval thing down to the lower right of this message?

Eh?

I see a rectangle... but it says reply....

Help!

It's a matter of perspective...

Anyway, I was expecting a more passionate contribution to this thread from you based on the subject :-(

"I cannot think of another company that treats its customers like probable criminals as Microsoft does."

What about the RIAA and MPAA, to name a couple of companies.

Oh..I don't know but the name APPlE comes to mind

Have a nice day:)

But the RIAA and MPAA do not have products.

What browser are you using?! =)

Gotta let the idiots play for a bit. Keeps us all entertained.

FF3.

Of course they do.

Just not physical ones.

If you're going to argue semantics, at least try to get them right...

Tell you what, how about we all stop buying windows? Last I checked, it is crap anyway.

To each his own. I have used Apple, windows XP, and now vista and I like Windows. Others like Apple and others like other OSs. No big deal.

Have a nice day:)

I cannot think of another company that treats its customers like probable criminals as Microsoft does.

It's bad enough that they use this WGA crap in the first place, but since it frequently throws up false positives (negatives?) it's a disgrace.

Ultimately the price of the software is cheaper
for legitimate buyers in a fair market place if pirating is discouraged.

Beats Apple who force customers to be criminals - I don't know anyone who didn't jail-break their iPhone - or sue them when publicizing disagreeable comments.

Most professional software is using draconian hardware locks that spend an significant amount of processing time just making sure they are genuine but if you don't like it why not simply use Linux?

but since it frequently throws up false positives (negatives?)

Frequently?

Proof?

Heeeeeeaaaal no. Trolls don't *need* proof.

*laughing*

it's a disgrace.

In reference to your post, right?

What planet have you been living on? Even Microsoft has admitted to this problem.

Its happened a few times...granted it sucks but it only takes 2-3 mins to resolve it.

Don't buy the software cheaper BS. Microsoft is taking the piss with windows licensing. $200 for a copy of vista THAT YOU CAN ONLY USE ON ONE PARTITION ON ONE COMPUTER is total BS. My copy of Leopard only cost me $100 and as far as I'm aware can be installed on as many macs as I own (though there is probably something in there that says that you can't go crazy and buy one copy of leopard for 10,000 systems or something like that). Its just greed plain and simple. I can see $200 for office, but windows should be no more than $70 a computer.

There is nothing that stops you but Apple would like you to purchase a license for each computer or you can get the family pack which allows up to 5 for $199

Apple makes its money from hardware hence the lower price of the software.

Microsoft is mainly a software company, so they need to make their money back somehow.

Vista can be bought for $100 provided you do not require support from MS ever.

Especially since their plants are in china and all their hardware is cheaper. But if it is really important to you then, heck, use apple.

Have a nice day:)

Your logic is flaw. You don't account the cost of hardware. The mac cost few hundred or over a thousand more. Factor the cost, Windows is much cheaper than a your OSX or whatever you want to call it.

As long as MS answers the phone. One day they hung up on my every time I called - not sure if the automated service was down or what.

Very irritating. Couldn't get through to them at all. Even tried regular MS support numbers - but they just transferred me to the Activation Centre of FAIL.

I had vista invalidate my copy of vista once, and it took less than 5 mins for me to correct it, and they were very helpful on the issue. I was actually quite surprised how smooth it went. Pain in the a** to have to call them when I reinstall now, but with how infrequent that is, im game.

Earth, dimwit.

My laughter was not in response to it happening, but due to his description of it happening "frequently". He got that from people like *you*, not MSFT.

You really were having trouble reading yesterday, weren't you?

I would have recorded that (between fits of laughter).

Hopefully it wasn't a production machine?

Ah, Microsoft. I like it how they think it's fine to screw with your computer if they suspect you're doing something wrong. Because WGA has never been wrong..

change never to rarely and you'd be dead on. For those rares, a simple 5 minute call to the installation support lines will have you back up and running in no time.

BTW: those lines are all served out of the US, for those calling form the US, so no Indian callcenters.

This is not true. I've been questioned by Microsoft on numerous occasions for legit OEM installs of Vista 32 before SP1.

All were from India. All accused me of pirating.

That's fine if you don't have any self-respect to speak of. Having to constantly call up India and beg to continue using something that you already paid good money for.....

You wouldn't like it if every time you changed the tire, or even put new air in them, that you had to call up the manufacturer to send you a new set of keys to start your car?

I've had my Windows deactivate many times and I didn't even change the specified hardware. One time all I did was update the video driver for my ATI card directly from its manufacturer. Sapphire.

Let me guess. You were using a Dell. Michael Dell had a hard-on for India even trying to get them to open a factory to build processors.

Dell makes decent computers but every aspect of their customer service makes the Geek Squad look like geniuses. HP is no different.

Have a nice day :)

Having to constantly call up India and beg to continue using something that you already paid good money for.

Having trouble reading today?

You wouldn't like it if every time you changed the tire, or even put new air in them, that you had to call up the manufacturer to send you a new set of keys to start your car?

Absurdist examples to prove how much you *don't* get it? Why thank you!

I've had my Windows deactivate many times and I didn't even change the specified hardware

Bull. Plain and simple. A single video driver change will *never* set off WGA.

I had Vista deactivate on me about 2 weeks ago for no apparent reason, I hit activate & it did so with no problems( unlike OEM XP Pro on original hardware). So I wouldn't be so fast to call BS on that.

Vista hasn't really been very troublesome actually, but that was quite unexpected.

OK..

A logic lesson here:

Did you change a video driver? No?

Do how does your experience with Vista contradict that, such that I would be inclined to no longer think the above comment was anything but BS?

I've made a lot of changes on my old Dell XPS including: power supply, sound card, and very soon a new video card. I've never experienced any problem with validation. What's are people b****ing about?

They're making s*** up, of course.

What better way to make a point than to claim it happened to *you*. They don't need figures, or stats, and they need provide no proof.

Anecdotal evidence is the go-to of any self-depreciating troll.

Sounds like a feature to me.

And whoever came up with the brilliant(sic) idea of covering the desktop with icons rather than having easily organized autoexpanding menus readily available - and no, not buried in the start menu! - such that open windows cover whatever it is that you are trying to find, was an idiot. But that gives you an idea as to where OS design has brought us!

I think that that was Xerox........ [smiles]

I agree with the littering of the desktop with icons but most programs give you an option to not install it to the desktop.

With Vista there is no burying in the start menu... type in the first 3 letters of what you are looking for an its there instantly.

XP actually comes with few icons. Vista has even less, expanding menus, and a search bar via one click to find anything because thats what the paying customers want.

If you have an issue with icons on your desktop you should send feedback to the vendor of that application.

Nope.

I am talking about applications, not simply the use of a GUI!

Cool. I like black backgrounds. Shame all my XP came pre-installed.

I actually think it's a good idea. Not sure how good it will do, but I know if the chick on my desktop disappeared every 30 min I would be a little annoyed. But I am sure you can just download a desktop wallpaper and have it set to change it to the same picture every 1 minute with no transition frames. So the longest you will see the black background would be a minute or so.

I never actually see my desktop at all when I use my computer, so it is irrelevant. It's called USING the computer. Essentially my desktop wallpaper is Firefox.

So this "annoyance" is 100% irrelevant to me. This is the best they can do?

Have fun with that!

HAHAHAHA

Quick solution: Check your receipts - you'll probably find you never bought Windows. Then, go buy Windows.

No problem--use "genuine" Windows and it's fine.

Just another potential flamebait article. Nothing to see here.

Well, what about those of us who 'upgraded' from a legit XP Home (preinstalled) to XP Pro just for IIS? I'd love to pay MS $50 or so to make my Pro legit and stop having WindowsUpdate hassles.

Unfortunately, MS won't give me a way. I can attempt to claim it as a hacked preinstalled copy and probably get a 'free' upgrade, but I'd have to report a legit retailer as bad (unfair to them). Or, I can completely reformat my drive and install a legit XP Pro (assuming you could buy it) or Vista. Sadly, who the hell wants to reformat a 5 year old machine (reformatted 1-2 times 3 years ago when Pro was put on) when the drive space is almost full and a new one is planned for 'sometime soon'?

Sadly, I'm stalling on buying Vista because of compatibility with VPN software for work, etc. I'd rather pay $50 or so and make the nag screens go away...but good luck figuring out how to make a Pro 'hacked' go legit officially through MS. Make it easy for me Microsoft to give you money!

Your 1st mistake was just buying an upgrade instead of a full fresh copy. Upgrades on OSs tend to suck.

Have a nice day :)

Windows. I've used legal copies. I've used pirated copies. The pirated copies are usually superior to the legal copies, due to tweaking. Oh yea, I can tweak them myself - but it takes time. It's SO MUCH easier to run an unattended script that makes the computer work the way YOU want it to.

My question would be - why on earth would anyone PAY for an inferior OS, when he can steal a superior OS?

To be fair - I have switched to Debian/Linux/open source. I just don't do windows anymore.

It's so - inferior!

Troll, you say? Go look in the mirror to see a troll. Had Bill Gates actually invented computers, or even invented an operating system, he might deserve some of the fortunes bestowed upon him by the ignorant masses.

Instead, Bill Gates stole at least half of everything he "owns", and now he goes after other thieves. LMAO