I've been using vista 32 bit for over a year now, on a system I built myself over 4 years ago and even with only 1GB of ram it runs smooth, nice and with no problems of any sort. Have never had a system crash, and never a bsod. Yes, some applications and drivers were not 100% working especially last year, but since SP1, those problems seem to be gone too.
Dont you guys love happy stories?!

Why weren't these resolved in the recent, and much ballyhooed, SP1?

Yeah!

For that matter, why did they wait until SP2 and SP3 for all the patch and functionality changes to XP?

WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING?!?!?!?

/sarcasm

I have a magical bsod free Vista Ultimate machine I guess.
Strangely, my lay person sister and brother in law both use Vista laptops...they load it with their junky spyware add ons, but they haven't had any bsods either.
hmm

I have a "magical bsod free Vista: home machine which came with the OEM of Vista and never, ever a BSOD. I gave my brother my XP machine and the upgrade software to bring it up to Vista Home and he would be described as a bit less than a lay person. No BSOD's for him either when he did the rather painless upgrade to Vista.

Now that's actually surprising to hear.

An upgrade with no BSODs? I've been labeled a Vista fanboy by some of these idiots, but even I have a hard time believing that one...

I guess there's a first time for everything. ;)

I have an upgrade with no BSODs as well.

This is awesome.

The problems listed in this thread are exactly why Linux is just as ready for the desktop as Vista.

Snickered a bit as I read through the comments.

Windows version:

"BSOD 0x2340240230" - Grandma says "whaaa?!"

XP drivers in Vista, no printing - Grandma says "what edit?!"

"" - Grandma says "why my keyboard not working?!"

"scratch pop sound pop scratch" - Grandma says "How-my gonna fix this?" - Tech Support "For this and the above issue please call Microsoft" - Microsoft "Please call tech support"

"corrupt system files" - Tech Support to Grandma - "Maam, you need to reinstall windows from your restore disk and then reload all your applications"

^- Grandma says "reinstall my computer? Whaa? Can you do that for me?" - Tech Support "Sorry maam, just put in the restore CD and boot from it" - Grandma says "Yes, I have boots on."

"Run memtest" - Grandma says "How do I install that application?" - Tech support "I'm sorry maam, that's not covered in your warranty. If you need to run memtest, try searching for it on google" - Grandma says "but computer broken!"

Forum Troll / tech support - "Oh, you have a dell maam? All hope is lost, go buy a new 'better' computer" - Grandma says "Hello bank, I need to file a fraud report, tech support says my computer is no good but dell man in mall says it's awesome"

Tech Support - "Maam, I need you to run msconfig and change some parameters" - Grandma says "What about my perimeter? What's a ms config?"

Tech Support - "Maam, sorry maam I can't help you turn off UAC, it's not a warranty problem. If you need it disabled try google"

Grandma gives up computers, and goes back to needlepoint because NONE of them are really ready for her desktop.

heh

Linux version:

"kernel panic" - Grandma says "whaaa?!"

"NVidia card found, click to enable" - Grandma "click" - computer - (BLACK SCREEN) - Grandma "hmmm"

"" - Grandma says "why my keyboard not working?!"

"scratch pop sound pop scratch" - Grandma says "How-my gonna fix this?" - Tech Support "We don't support your operating system" - Ubuntu "Please post a message about this in the support forum"

"corrupt system files" - Tech Support to Grandma - "Maam, we don't support Linux. You need to reinstall windows from your restore disk and then reload all your applications"

^- Grandma says "reinstall my computer? Whaa? Can you do that for me?" - Tech Support "Sorry maam, just put in the restore CD and boot from it" - Grandma says "Yes, I have boots on."

"Run memtest" - Grandma says "How do I install that application?" - Tech support "I'm sorry maam, that's not covered in your warranty. If you need to run memtest, try searching for it on google" - Grandma says "but computer broken!"

Forum Troll / tech support - "Oh, you have Ubuntu maam? All hope is lost, go buy a new 'better' OS, Windows Vista" - Grandma says "Hello bank, I need to file a fraud report, tech support says my computer is no good but dell man in mall says it's awesome"

Forum User - "Maam, I need you to click system -> administration -> services and change some parameters" - Grandma says "What about my perimeter? What's a system?"

Tech Support - "Maam, sorry maam I can't help you get suspend working, it's not a warranty problem. If you need it enabled try google"

Grandma gives up computers, and goes back to needlepoint because NONE of them are really ready for her desktop.

(It's almost cut and paste for Mac too.)

heh

where's the mac version to make all these mac fanboys mad

Grandma is very ethnic. ;)

Hmm, I was going for sarcastic, not ethnic.

Mac version:

"BOMB" - Grandma says "whaaa?!"

No Mac drivers, no printing? - Grandma says "Back to office depot!"

"" - Grandma says "why my [kernel|appletalk|fax|memory|printing|sleep|firewall|scanner] not working?!"

"click safari window -> quits" "click safari window -> quits" - Grandma says "How-my gonna fix this?" - Tech Support "hi, you said Safari does open? hmm must not have a problem .. click"

"hard drive corrupt" - Tech Support to Grandma - "Maam, you need to reinstall OSX from your restore disk and then reload all your applications"

^- Grandma says "reinstall my computer? Whaa? Can you do that for me?" - Tech Support "Sorry maam, just put in the restore CD and boot from it" - Grandma says "Yes, I have boots on."

"Run memtest" - Grandma says "How do I install that application on my mac?" - Tech support "I'm sorry maam, that's not covered in your warranty. If you need to run memtest, try searching for it on google" - Grandma says "but mac broken!"

Forum Troll / tech support - "Oh, you have a Mac maam? All hope is lost, go buy a new 'better' computer and by better I mean a computer with Windows Vista like a Dell" - Grandma says "Hello bank, I need to file a fraud report, tech support says my computer is no good but man in apple store at mall says it's awesome"

Other Forum Troll / tech support - "Oh, you have a Mac maam? All hope is lost, go download Linux because Vista sucks!" - Grandma says "WTF?"

Tech Support - "Maam, I need you to change some parameters" - Grandma says "What about my perimeter?"

Tech Support - "Maam, sorry maam I can't help you turn off *WHATEVER*, please take your computer to an apple store. Oh no, they really are smart folks. Honest."

Grandma gives up computers, and goes back to needlepoint because NONE of them are really ready for her desktop.

heh

I am confused. I upgraded a P4 3.2Ghz Gateway computer with Vista Home Premium on day one and I haven't had a problem at all. The SP1 install and life is good. I guess I am not doing much with my computer to warrant an issue. I have had a positive experince with Vista, so I am kinda baffled with all the problems.

Regardless of what I do, I cannot get Vista Home Premium to upgrade to Ultimate. I've given up.

And, for the first time in *years* and only while using Vista, I'm again seeing BSODs. I cannot recall ever seeing one with XP. And after those several years of not seeing one, I truly thought they had been banished into history and computer lore. But with Vista, NOT!

The only commendable feature of Vista I've found to date is it's relatively decent voice recognition--but only when also using mouse-grid. After a bit of training, it works far better than I ever expected. I am amazed by how much can be done without once touching the keyboard.

And as an aside which reiterates what others have said here, Vista's "eye candy" appears to have been developed by a first-grader vs. what you now get with Linux. The latter seems to have been developed by someone who actually had a clue about putting some "sizzle" on users' screens. Even more, much of that sizzle has practical uses.

Really, was Vista and Aero the best Microsoft could do? If so, be afraid; be very afraid.

And as an aside which reiterates what others have said here, Vista's "eye candy" appears to have been developed by a first-grader vs. what you now get with Linux. The latter seems to have been developed by someone who actually had a clue about putting some "sizzle" on users' screens. Even more, much of that sizzle has practical uses.

s*** brown "sizzles" for you, does it? Or are you referring to the broken release of KDE 4?

No kidding! I have so many high hopes for the final release of KDE 4, and I like the direction they're heading with it. But, in its current state... ugh.

4.3 should be usable.

I'm not even going to bother with it until then.

I wonder why you're having such a difficult time upgrading from Home Premium to Ultimate? That seems strange to me, as I thought it was just a simple matter of changing the product key. All Vista DVDs contain the same information, but it's the key that determines what you have access to, I believe.

And the lame duck staggers on...

D'oh! I'm still waiting for the USB/Sleep fixes. If my Vista box puts itself to sleep the USB keyboard and mouse don't work when it powers back on, unless I unplug them and put them in a different port.

I've tried _every_ fix out there now. It's simply an OS issue - XP doesn't do it at all, it just works when I put it in Standby.

I have that problem with a Logitech G7 mouse under Vista 64. Never used to happen under 32bit.
Always just assumed it was a logitech driver problem :)

I've never had any problems with USB keyboards/mice not working after Vista 64-bit or 32-bit wakes up from suspend or hibernation. On my computer Vista wakes up just as fast as Mac OS X does too. Vista really hasn't had any more problems at the time of its release than any other desktop OS has had on a major new version.

XP had this issue when it first came out, until the OEM released new drivers. This has happened with SP2 of XP as well.

I am sure someone will correct if I am wrong but just like XP, you can turn off sleep/hibernation so that would not be an issue. Oh and you can turn off screensaver from going on which can be annoying.

Have a nice day:)

As the others pointed out, it is less of an OS issue and more of an issue with your hardware/drivers/configuration. The behavior you describe is not rooted in the OS. I've had a variety of USB keyboards/mice and never had an issue.

Here's a test: Reinstall Vista on a bare drive and don't install anything else or make any configuration changes. When you discover your keyboard/mouse work, start installing and configuring until you determine what causes the issue. Also, if your hardware is not certified for Vista then you may want to consider a trip to Fry's or the geek temple of your choice.

The USB drivers for that specific mainboard, or in combination with other drivers for the system could very well be causing the problem.

That could be very hard to separate from Vista if they are default drivers.

The update to Vista that this article refers to as 'big' fixes only a few minor issues with Vista that only occur in certain situations. I would hardly call it a big fix. The truth is the only thing in Vista that really needs fixing is its public image!

Don't harp on the ones having problems with Vista. It's apparent that vista is less then Microsofts best effort. As far as the compatibility list that no given now that Nvidia is having hardware failures. Even Intel won't upgrade to Vista and that says alot. Vista is getting a big patch on Tuesday to address alot of ussues.

"There's also interesting little problems such as certain builds of NVidia drivers that cause high-definition audio streams to sound like they've been fed through a chipper-shredder"

I get this in Vista all the time, it's one of the main reasons (other than slowness) I can't use it.

I also get it in XP. With a slightly older build I got rid of it, but then it started BSoDing. So I had to use the newer build with the audio quality problems. Augh! Fortunately it only happens rarely now.

From the article: "There's also interesting little problems such as certain builds of NVidia drivers that cause high-definition audio streams to sound like they've been fed through a chipper-shredder".

How is this a Microsoft problem? If the problem only occurs with certain builds of Nvidia drivers then this is clearly a problem with Nvidia.

The drivers tell the OS how to talk to the sound card. If the OS passes bad audio data to the drivers the drivers can't do much about it.

Possibly could happen if the drivers set a flag on the driver interface or call a Windows function or something which triggered a bug in Windows causing data corruption in the audio stream. Or something.

Anyways, as long as you're running Windows, any problems you experience have the potential to be caused by Microsoft, even if it looks like a third-party bug (it is more likely to be a third-party bug maybe though).

FUD

Jeez, if only I could get SP1 to even install! On on my third try now having attempted countless workarounds and still, the dreaded BlueScreenOfDeath!!!!

I'm very happy for people who haven't had to suffer like me and my friends have with Vista (most who've gone back to XP). But claiming that nobody can have this cancer just because you don't is simply called ignorance.

Are you using a Dell. Most people that I have heard complain about Vista, are using Dells.
I also know the google software and Apple software also make a mess of the machine. Slowing it down by at least 10 seconds per googl and apple applications.

Well, this particular machine is put together from high-quality common stock parts by my own hand (of which I've built many). In this case, it's dual-boot XP / Vista with the Vista install being virtually clean. So far, I've found the MS knowledgebase to be (unusually) particularly useless. I've disabled all but essential drivers and removed non-essential peripherals and still 0x000007E bluescreen. Bootlogging shows NOTHING - in fact the file NTBTBOOT.LOG doesn't even appear after the bluescreen. I wish I could say this is the first time I've encountered problems on Vista but it's not. I've personally been asked to remove it from no less than 3 different friends machines because they were sick of it and all its issues. Personally, I like the look and performance characteristics for the most part - however, I can't justify it's production use to anyone because the failure risk factor / price is just too high.

FYI: Machines I've removed it from and installed XP include an Acer and 2 Dells. And it's looking like I may have to start from scratch on this one!

Have you checked the event logs, have you booted with diagnostic mode (msconfig)?
I actually had the opposite. I have had several customer upgrade their 2-3 year old machines without any trouble. Have not had 1 customer want to go back yet, have set up(new computer) or upgraded over 600 machines within the last 6 months.

Must not be that high quality. My parts have been running the same install of Vista x64 since 3/07 without a single bluescreen.

I had a client that f'd a working Vista box. They were going to plug in a wireless optical MS mouse and KB combo, but they accidentally installed the XP drivers for it. (That vista let them do this was quite amazing to me.)

Now, no external keyboard works on the machine, only laptop KB. Logitech keyboards don't even work. I've had a case open with MS for 3 days on this, we've tried system restores, driver rollbacks, uninstalls, reinstalls, drawn out of course that the client needs this machine so I only get an hour or to here and there to work on it.

Quite annoying. Vista just will not let go of this XP driver.

Now that's just showing off.

Check the RAM using MemTest86+ 2.01 (http://www.memtest.org/)

I had random blue screens, MemTest86+ showed defective RAM. I then changed the RAM for higher quality (faster timing) and no more blue screen.

Not to be rude, but there is something with your hardware or configuration that is wonky. Have you verified your hardware is on the Hardware Compatibility List (certified for Vista). I also built (most recently) a high end desktop and have a few machines that range from pitiful to reasonable and found (like many others) that out of the box Vista is rock solid. The problems start with third party drivers and hardware. For example, either one-third or two-thirds of all blue screens in 2007 were caused by nVidia drivers (I forget the numbers... Been up since 3:30am due to a server crash). Vista started locking up for me when I bought a high-end bluetooth keyboard, so back to the store the keyboard went. Not a problem before or since.

When Vista problems follow you around you should take a close look at your installation or configuration (if the parts are different). Claiming Vista is a dud when using a Dell box is like complaining your car has a rough ride when you have four flat tires. :)

You need to wipe the drive prior to doing an install. Vista with SP1 seems to install easier on a clean drive. That's what I had to do on my XPS. It then installed with no problems.

The PC that I made myself works great with Vista. At this point I have no plans of to go back to XP. Vista loads faster and is more secure so I am good to go.

I had an issue getting mine to install too. Turns out I had some corrupted system files. Pop in your Vista disc and do a repair and it will probably get you up and going.

I've found XP SP2 installs horribly onto XP SP0, incredibly lengthening boot times. But when I slipsteamed it onto a CD, that problem went away... and plus, whenever you install a SP or hotfix, Windows has to keep 1) the old files around in case you want to uninstall and 2) an extra copy of the new files in case they become corrupted. With slipstreaming none of that is necessary.

That said, I installed the newest SPs on top of the old ones cause I'm lazy, but next full installs will be slipstreamed.

Also there is the obvious detract of having your registry reset and having to set up your profile settings (importing an old profile directory is easy if you know how Windows works, registry too but I prefer to just clean out all that too otherwise I just bring along a bunch of broken baggage with my settings) so it's the sort of thing you WOULD save for the next full install you do.

In your case it would be a good solution since it's guaranteed to work, since it integrates with a fresh Vista install instead of a user one which apparently has files which cause a BSoD.

Not even with System Restore ?

Try:
http://blog.seattlepi.nw...s/141343.asp?source=rss

Something similar most likly happened in your case.

WTF? You expect a consumer to do this?

That's no different than saying "open terminal and vi menu.lst".

Hmm..

On HP machines, you press f8 on startup, and click fix startup. Very simple

Really?

Tell your grandmother to do it, and don't help or explain how it's done. Do not tell her that startup means restart her computer, or that F8 is a key on the keyboard she needs to press in a specific time window.

Tell her "press F8 on startup and click fix startup" and let her at it.

It'll be real simple since she has no idea that she needs the Vista media in the drive, or that the F8 to go to restore mode is on the screen for less than 5 seconds. She probably isn't even looking at the screen anymore, she rebooted the computer and then went to make a sandwich while it was starting up. She came back and is now pressing F8 at the Windows desktop because it's completely "started up".

So she reboots over and over, not knowing that the boot preferences in the BIOS are set to hard drive first and never sees the F8 screen when she finally does start paying attention. So now, tell her "oh, go into the BIOS and change your boot order" or "Press F12 to change your boot sequence and then F8".

By now there's smoke coming out of both ears and she's shut the damn thing off.

Yeah, it's so easy.

On an Ubuntu machine you press ALT-F2 then type 'gksudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst', make your changes, then save and reboot.

Both are about equally difficult, and IMPOSSIBLE for a common consumer.

Thanks.

Do you have some kind of senior fetish or what is this granny talk all day?

No.

Pushing one or two combinations may be difficult at first but its a lot easier then trying to type out what you need to do + using the key combination. Specifically making sure you don't miss the slash and you are using the correct one and you don't forget the period.

If people who just seen a computer for the first time after getting their tech support job can t/s, grandma can push a key on the keyboard when told to do so.

Does Linux have a number you can call 24/7 that can assist you because grandma sure is hell not going to hunt on a forum.

Now of course if you are not there to dictate or anyone else for that matter then I could agree they are equally as hard.

HAH classic. "Does Linux have a number you can call 24/7 that can assist you because grandma sure is hell not going to hunt on a forum."

She's not going to argue with a support person to get help either. She's gonna go nit.

:-D

...or knit, even. ;)

Oh but they will at first depending on the grandma.

My comment about the 24.7 tech support for Linux was a real question as I don't know if they do or not..

Most Commercial distros come with installation support if you purchase them.

Don't know the hours though...

curses

Ubuntu (Desktop or Server): 9x5 or 24x7 http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid

$250 is a bit much for business hour support (although it's for a year), but Microsoft support isn't free either.

http://support.microsoft...=10295&gprid=436647

Redhat offers it also if you buy RHEL.

Oracle, and SUSE offer 24x7 support also.

$250 is a bit much for business hour support (although it's for a year), but Microsoft support isn't free either.

True, but most computers are bought from OEM's that offer free support. Usually 24/7 (Dell, HP, etc)

Oh! I know *lots* of those.

I can even curse a vending machine in Latin. (The one and *only* thing I remember from Latin Class other than "Semper Ubi Sub Ubi"...which is just poor grammar.)

That's not advanced support though.

At least that's what Dell HP and IBM have told me ;-).

There really aren't any good support options for any OS out there.

a lot of quacking BUT... i've been using vista home premium almost since the day it came out and had essentially NO problems. i think all the complaints come from the 412 people out there who own apple computers.....

Many users installing Vista SP1 find problems with IE7 after the update. I'm told there's a hotfix from Microsoft, but you must call for it (whatever that means). In my case, after installing SP1 via Windows Update, IE7 won't open MSN, many microsoft sites, Yahoo, etc..My solution? I did a system recovery and turned off Windows Update. Great job Vista. And to think my Vista came installed already on a new PC.

Have setup several hundred Vista machines, and have not had this issue yet.

I'm running 3 Vista machines, a desktop I built myself (Athlon 64 X2 5000+), a "refurbished" Acer desktop (Athlon 64 X2 4200+), and an Acer Laptop (Core2Duo). I have installed SP1 without problems and all other updates on all three computers and have had none of the problems listed above. Please note that I am also running 3 GB RAM on each and have turned off UAC on each. I am happy with Vista.

My solution would have been to use Firefox 3. :P

Using IE + no updates is an open door for viruses, spyware, etc. Keep that in mind. Remember that if all else fails you can slipstream SP1 onto a Vista DVD and install a fresh copy of Vista with SP1 already there. Nice and clean and guaranteed to work since it's dealing with a new install when integrating SP1 files onto the DVD.