Perhaps Mastertech would care to explain why he lies about what myself & others have said? For example;

"...Good stuff - give it a read." - Asa
Actual comment - "Robert Accettura has a nice response to the poorly constructed & mostly worthless article Firefox Myths. Good stuff - give it a read".

"...all web sites are IE compliant, use a browser with IE engine & tabs, & a fully patched system = 100% security." - FreewheelinFrank (MrFlibble)
Actual comment - "This includes 1 of Mastertech's typical phrases designed to suggest he is not the author ('Makes interesting reading') but then goes on to use the first person. Strange- that would be the first time for Mastertech. The notions are his: all web sites are IE compliant, use a browser with IE engine & tabs, & a fully patched system = 100% security."

"I'm not a big fan of evangelism or hyperbole, so when a page called "Firefox Myths" entered my radar recently, I was very interested." - Tre
Actual comment - "I’m not a big fan of evangelism or hyperbole, so when a page called “Firefox Myths” entered my radar recently, I was very interested. Then sadly disappointed. Rather than a balanced analysis of some of the folklore surrounding Firefox, it is merely a stream of weak arguments against imaginary “myths” supported by misquoting or deliberate misreading of sources. I’m not even going to reference the page".

Fully sourced - http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic44405.html

Wow it didn't take you long to spam this in desperation.

What spam would that be? Your deceptions are well documented & authenticated. Perhaps if you weren't so morally bankrupt you wouldn't be being exposed for what you are wherever you promote yourself.

very very few websites are not rendered properly.

like live.com

and yahoo mail beta.

not a big deal looking at the size of web, and big corporation are behind these and both of them are in BETA so im sure they will get it to work properly after the beta phase ends (of live.com and yahoo mail beta not opera)

Opera is the best.

FF is good too, i advice that to noobs, they find it lot easier and that is why google is supporting it coz it is simple.

i have been using ver9 as my default browser from its first build as far as i can remember in all the builds i have tried i only remember one recent instance when it got unstable , but i dont know if it was opera or something else, dont remember it crashing in past.

for beta it is toooooooooo stable,

Opera is defitiely nice and my main browser. Firefox, being a frankenstein product, is prone to bugs and other issues. Firefox totally beats IE, but having a congruent product that's produced in unison under one roof is really nice and solid. And they make it free! Thank you opera for a nice product. Now if only the monkeys who write crappy non-standards websites would get THEIR acts together.

I am really impressed with this Beta. I think opera team has done a great job keeping it up, and adding new fuctionalities to an already very impressive browser with version 9. Keep it up Opera team!!!!

First was Netscape in old times, then IE, Maxthon, Firefox, Opera 8 and now Opera 9 weeklies. I think i'll stay with Opera, yes it don't have extensions like FF, they're powerful and customizable but sometimes problematic when they don't work in new version, and then i'm left without that added functionality. In Opera i'm at least sure new version will have builtin functions working (most of the time ;) ). Whats worst FF at this stage even bare without any extensions, starts longer then Opera with all functions, now it's getting worse if you add Opera functions to FF via extensions, its getting too slow for me... Thats why i changed to Opera, and with O9 its getting even better. It got mail, maybe not as good as Thunderbird but still its good for checkin mail and leaving messages on server for TB ;) Yes Opera 9 borrowed some things from FF, but then FF borrowed even more things from Opera 8 ;)))) Realy i don't care they can borrow whatever they want, i just want fast, small and secure browser, i think i'm gettin it in Opera PERIOD

OPERA RAWKS!!!

Opera is the best
i bought it in ver. 6
firefox just copy some of the best ideas of opera .....

Nothing wrong with taking already proven ideas and enhancing them. Paradoxically it keeps things fresh!

It's only wrong if the company is calls Microsoft. ;)

This latest Opera is very impressive compared to past builds.
I tried Firefox and it was slow on my computer but Opera is quicker so it is my new browser.

true ff is as slow as english granny drinking tea ;)

Been using Firefox since before V1, and whilst it's OK, it takes loads of extensions and tweaking to get it how I like it. Performance is nothing to shout home about.

I just tried the Opera 9 beta, and all I can say, is WOW, this is blisteringly fast, it uses very little memory, and has 95% of the functionality I needed as extensions build right in.

Not looking back, Opera really is the way to go. I just tried their Opera Mini on my mobile, and that's awesome also..

Man does this render pages fast compared to Firefox.

I've tried to speed up FF but can't get it to go anywhere near as quick. Well impressed.

Boys, we don't need to argue which browser is worse. You can use any of them for free. In fact, I use both of them. The bad boys are in the other side.
I appreciate the install and go and lightweight from opera and the many extensions and fast page render for FF .
And both browsers have their weaknesses too, but with all the bugs/lack of features from Opera or FF they are still MUCH better than the crappy IE.

BTW:

http://www.slyerfox.com/

This was written by a child.

It's pathetic.

There isn't a single FACT there, just a bunch of whining.

so do YOU have some FACTS to enlighten us ?

your whining is pathetic too.

Mastertech's little sister, welcome. There is no whining, I stated a fact.

The one or two facts that you actually may find there are worthless.

Who really gives a flying fsck who had tabs first?

No one does.

Go home.

we are fighting over browsers.

LOL, DigitalSin is brainwashed :D

"Firefox is anti-big-corporate-entity\rebel-hacker culture"

Haha... right! Firefox is in fact IN THE POCKETS OF MAJOR CORPORATIONS LIKE IBM ;)

In fact, Mozilla IS a corporation!

Hmmm....this is true (not the brainwashed part ;)

But I think I was eluding to the culture which the browser appeals to and the following itself, not the culture of the owning entity.

I like both Firefox and Opera. I like Firefox's customizing ability and Opera's All-In-One (like Mozilla, but better) approach and size.
Security, they are pretty close according to Secunia:

Firefox:
Currently, 3 out of 29 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

Opera:
Currently, 0 out of 13 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

I/E is a gamble:
Currently, 19 out of 99 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

Opera 9 seems to be slightly quicker compared to Firefox (empty cache), cookie handling (block all but designated sites) is a little more difficult at first try (figured it out) than Firefox but site configuration is more detailed with Opera. Some sites still have problem with the Opera user agent like Ebay, very minor though. All in all Opera is evolutionizing into a better and better browser..If it becomes more popular it will increase Secunia security databases workload on flaws as it should. Opera however has maintained a flawless patch record which is a definite +++ for it's followers and a +++ for it's engineers. Considering the email and browser is close to 1/3 the size of Firefox/Thunderbird and decent functionality, you have to give the boys and girls at Opera a hearty "Nice Job!!"

The advisory count is incredibly misleading. Advisories do not equal vulnerabilities. This recent Firefox Advisory includes 24 vulnerabilities:

http://secunia.com/advisories/19631

Firefox actually has 5 unpatched out of 97 vulnerabilities. You can see how much more severe the vulnerability situation is with Firefox then the advisory count implies.

Thanks for the info. Firefox and Opera are alot safer than Internet Explorer, more than I thought.

5 out of 97 is only in v1.5.0.2.

v1.5.0.1 had 29 unpatched out of 97 vulnerabilities.

And I got them from counting the actual vulnerabilities in each browser.

Opera has 0 unpatched out of 16 vulnerabilities.

I have allways used Firefox, since i prefer tabbed browsing and at the time IE didnt have it. But I have noticed that its quite big in its current version. Takes longer to load up than IE and uses allot of resources compaired to IE.

Opera 9 by contast is everything i changed to firefox for and so i tried it for my own curiosity. I like it, its tabbed or windowed, it has allot more features, its faster, its lean and aparrently more secure and does the job excellent.

Its so good, i might take FF off soon.

highly recommended.

Did you bother to say that it LOAD faster, but pages render slower and that is has crap for ad blocking, as well as no extensions? I just tried the latest release and all of these are still true for ever person I have asked and tried, well over 100 people. Even this page on BN still doesn't render correctly. Opera still has far to go to just get close to the low side of FF. I have major problems with FF, but it still blow this crap out of the water with every site I have tried and BN being of of them.

Oh dear. gawd21 the Firefox fanboy is at it again.

Opera doesn't have extensions? Maybe not, but it's damn close:

http://virtuelvis.com/ar...-and-firefox-extensions
http://virtuelvis.com/ar...d-firefox-extensions-ii

Anyway, it has all the cool stuff built in, and is still faster, safer and generally just better than the bloated pig Firefox :)

Yeah, 8 megs is just so bloated.

Opera actually has faster startup, faster rendering, faster javascript...

I does NOT render pages faster. Every person that isn't a fanboy that I have asked, have all said the same thing. It loads to ram faster, but it gives you blank grey page until the whole page is downloaded then it will render it. How is that faster?

No Opera DOES render faster and here is the proof:

http://www.howtocreate.c...wserSpeed.html#winspeed

It is more like the Firefox Fanboys cannot accept reality. If soooo many people claim otherwise then it should be very easy to document and prove. The fact is not ONE person has been able to disprove those tests with accurate tests of their own. The fact of the matter is when those tests are run they get the same results.

People incorrectly use extensions such as Fasterfox and Adblock and claim it is faster. If you add a precacher like Fasterfox and enable Adblocking the results would be the same on other browsers.

Just because you post a link form a fanb**** such as yourself, with graphic that makes the site scream that it was half assed, and you want me to believe what you say when I know first hand better. How is loading a blank grey page until the whole page, pictures and all have been downloaded, faster at rendering? It's not!

compaired to opera which is 4.5mb with more features and is more secure is almost half the size. I dont want to give u the soapbox techno breakdown, but you cant fail to realise that its half the size with more functionality.

im a convert, FF is uninstalled and i can NOTICE a difference.

Seems your having problems accepting fact. The site posted is not a Opera fanboy site, there is no browser or OS bias, just benchmarks.

If that site showed FireFix as being he fastest, fanboys like yourself would be posting it,.

These tests are done on grossly outdated hardware

"800 MHz Intel Pentium 3, 256 MB RAM."

Opera 9 may be faster at rendering pages, but with modern hardware it's not really relevant.

As noted, Opera 9 still doesn't render many pages properly (including Betanews as someone else mentioned) so it's useless.

I'm sure a lot of people like it, and hey that's cool. The issue here is that we have a new resident troll that's selling it like it's crack yet calling everyone else a fanboy LOL.

(BTW, the PDA version of Opera *SUCKS* IE was better unfortunately (boy is pocket IE slow though). Then again, the Firefox port to Pocket PC was even worse.)

Well seeing how I have, yet to say that Firefox or IE are better, I would not call myself a fanboy of Firefox. How many times have I said that another browser was better? Not Once have I have just pointed out that you and other fanboys are making up lies and acting like the Yugo and old crank style cars are faster than the newer cars, because you have to crank it and it make sure it is running before you get in it (downloading the whole page before it will start rendering it, Opera)and the new cars where all you do is turn the key and it ready to go (almost all other browsers).

Calling 8MB bloated with a million times the quality is just retarded. Yes, Opera maybe a little over half the size, but it is also less than half the quality. Version 9 and it still can't render as many pages as most of the other browsers and the Wand still doesn't work right. Now if you have 9 freaking versions and it still doesn't work right, it NEVER will. Thanks and have a good day.

I have heard opera doesnt render all pages, and while this maybe true, i have yet to find them, this site also renders fine.

If we are looking on a ethical view, i still prefer opera. Microsoft want to dominate everything, and if that means bending the rules of html to suite its browser then thats onother story, but when people write for it so that browsers that stick to the rules have problems then that is another. In the end its the users choice, and my main concern is security and the ability to goto where i like without exploites writen for unpatched browsers. Firefox is a good alternative for IE, but opera is also a good alternative.

I don't use IE, because it's so outdated that it isn't worth using. It was out dated when XP came out. There has not been a major change to IE in going on 8 years now. A few security patches and a face lift. IE 7 is just out dated junk they are taking from other browsers (and it's still in beta and you have to pay for any good extensions for IE) so I won't use that. You are one of the few that see BN correctly on Opera, but I think it maybe that you don't know what it's suppose to look like. However, if they took Firefox and the few Linux browsers that I use from time to time, I would use Opera before going back to IE. IE would be close to last on my list.

Ah.

So rendering speed is not important as long as you throw enough hardware at it?

That said: Opera renders Betanews perfectly. I'm not a fanboy, I just decided to actually *try* it instead of copying someone else's claim.

IVE BEEN CONVINCED OP3R4 IS DAH R0X0RS.

Edit:
Well, I'm bored now, adios fud-packeros (Yes, this means you Master fud packer err "tech").

heh

Best browser ever!
But the best, is that is getting ever better!

They have a newer version out today with more bug fixes.
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/
"The weekly build today should contain the best of both: The stability enhancements from the last build, but without the regressions since the beta. Oh, and mouse gestures don't crash in Widgets anymore..."

Great! Downloaded!

Extensions Rule!!!! So, Firefox rules also!!!! Everyone hates the big guy. People were all on the bandwagon for Firefox for a long time, now they have grown bored with it, and have jumped on Opera. Opera is owned by a large company, which has the funding to dump millions to programmers to work with Opera. Firefox is mostly open source, and did not have the funding, until recently, to work with Firefox. So I would expect Opera to be better, but to me it is still not, due to the confusing way of configuring it to your liking.

Uh.

Opera is actually a small company. My guess is that Mozilla actually has more cash than Opera since it is in the pockets of big corporations.

Opera is a small and independent company, unlike Mozilla.

Yes, Opera is a lot better.

I just don't see how anyone can complain much about Opera. It truly is one of, if not the, best browser out there.

I'm still using 'fox, but only because there are still quite a few websites out there that just don't fully support Opera. I hope that changes soon. Not that firefox is at all a bad browser, I mainly just love the speed of Opera. The Opera dev team is pretty stand-up to boot.

I see you noticed how hard it is for people to be objective. ;)

I try everything here and there. Currently, I use FF with only a handful of extensions.
Opera is OK, but nothing to rave about. It refuses to display pages here and there. You can blame the website designer, OR, you could make a browser that doesn't break trying to stick to strict rules.
Kinda, sorta like traffic in India or Saigon. If you absolutely followed the lines in the road, you'd be dead quick.

Checking the stats on my websites, I notice Opera doesn't even rank a 1 percentile. Now, either that means nobody is using Opera to view my sites, or the browser's User-agent is set to something else... perhaps IE ?

Now, if they could just combine all the good elements of all the browsers into one working browser, I'd be a fanboi of that, but until then, NOTHING has shown itself to be the perfect browser.

As for you who keep crying about FireFox's extensions and their vulnerabilities, I just have to disagree. In fact, it is because of the extensions that make FF more secure than IE or its clones. (Adblock and NoScript, for example)

Rather seems funny to me that some people MUST show allegiance to a bunch of code.... OMG... (insert favorite program here) ROXXORS, and everyone else just SUXXORS !!

It's not the code people have allegiances to, it's the culture. Firefox is anti-big-corporate-entity\rebel-hacker culture and we know IE culture is the opposite. Opera I think is kind of the neglected red headed stepchild of the browser cultures. Bad code, bugs, vulernabilities, etc all play a role as ammunition for each culture to use to justify their standing.

"...neglected red headed stepchild"
now that's funny, I don't care who you are ;)

hm.. musing.. That is a very valid point.

It isn't code, its culture. nice.

Firefox isn't just a different culture it is a Religion:

http://poptech.blogspot....refox-new-religion.html

Sounds like Opera is the religion, you are the only one here selling it like it's crack.

No Opera is a web browser. I am simply debunking misinformation about them, use whatever browser you want:

http://mywebpages.comcas...D/FreewareBrowsers.html

The problem here is that there WAS NO MISINFORMATION until you showed up and started posting it.

I know what your title is.

Ghetto browser dealer

You have some seriously twisted logic.

Spamming your blog again, Mastertech?

Yes, again we agree on something, No the world still haven't ended. It's not 2011, yet.

LOL

At least Mastertech provided me with a bit of amusement being such a persistant troll.

heh

Lying again Frank? It is not my Blog.

If the fact that you link to the Poptech blog/forum at the top of the OptimizeXP/Firefox myths site, post there as Andrew, identify yourself as Andrew at the bottom of the OptimizeXP/Firefox site, and say exactly the same things on both sites isn't enough to convince anybody that your are either a)schizophrenic or b)lying, here is the proof:

1) You have posted a reference to Firefox Myths on the Poptech forum, where one of the forum members identified you as the author:

http://standards.spiralmindsinc.com/misc/Priceless/

2) You refered to the OptimizeXP site as 'my' guide on the forum:

http://72.14.203.104/sea...uk&ct=clnk&cd=1

3) You used the name GeneralAres for an image folder on the Poptech blog site. This is the other name you use for posting pages from OptimizeXP/Poptech on forums like TomsHardware, PCMech and AnandTech, and is also an email address you use when posting as Mastertech.

http://images.google.co....F-8&sa=N&tab=wi

After all of these facts were poited out to you, you tried to cover up the truth by deleting pages or renaming folders, but unfortunately Google retains a record of your guilt.

Give it up Mastertech. Wouldn't it just be easier to admit what you have said?

Funny thing is, he used to be an anti-Opera troll:

http://my.opera.com/comm...show=0&perscreen=50

Ouch!!!

That is to funny. I just read it and it just can't be the same person. LMAO.

Man you are desperate. I must be the only one in the world named Andrew! Talk about proof!

Man you are so desperate it is not even funny. Reporting a bug in Opera from 3 years ago and defending Windows from fanboy accusations has nothing to do with being anti-opera or a troll. But if a Firefox fanboy said it we know it must be true! Please.

Good grief! Do you folks throw enough sand at each other? Each have there own preference. We can stop by trashing everything you don't like and accept that your opinion is NOT FACT and is just that, you’re OPINION. For each study you can use to say your opinion is fact, someone else can come up with another study to show there's fact. So agree to disagree and stop acting like 2 year olds in the sand box!!!!!!

I am not speaking about opinions but facts that are irrefutable.

http://www.FirefoxMyths.com

Opinions are if you like how the Opera skin looks compared to Firfox. What I am dealing with are cold hard facts.

Opera is faster, more secure and more Compliant (Acid2) than Firefox. Those are undeniable, irrefutable facts.

Yeah, the guy says he's not associated with Comcast, but his site is hosted by them and if you look at his email: OptimizeXP@comcast.net

If he's not associated with Comcast, he's certainly biaised. Of course Firefox have weaknesses. You try writing a completly flaswless software. Perfection doesn't exist. And about the 'Firefox is the fastest, lighest...' : IT'S A PUNCH LINE. Mozilla wants you to use their browser, and they are going to promote it. That's how it works, everyone does that.

Wow...

Anyone who uses Comcast for internet access gets free webspace and an @comcast.net email address.

Were you actually unaware of this?

Apparently, he is one of those *AOL* types, that they don't get such french benefits.

Get a grip. This is BETA news, we haven't formed a proper tolerance yet, so we are TESTING the waters, don't you know...

It is a punch line my ass. It is deliberately misleading and proven to be a lie. I've never seen more people being misled with false information to use a piece of software before and then the same people when proven wrong continue to blindly support it.

http://www.google.com/se...&btnG=Google+Search

How long have you worked for them?

Hmm

"More illegal activity from Andrew K.

Andrew K., the author of the Firefox Myths article, has deliberately misquoted me on that page. He cut pieces of things I said and glued them together with no indication that such modifications were made. His page claims that I said the following:"

http://nanobox.chipx86.c...ivity-from-andrew-k.php

Worked for who? I don't work for anyone. I see you found another fanboy link of lies. Good work. Now trying arguing a single fact.

Lies?

HAHAHAHA

The only liar here is you bubba.

Lets repeat this some more, magically it might become true. Unfortunately this is not fantasy land.

Damn it man, isn't it past your bedtime yet?

You are getting boring.

same.

WOW, SUCH A COOL COMMENT!

"same."

BOI I NEVER WOOD-UH COME UP WIT DAT!?!

I already refuted your so-called "irrefutable facts". Your page says that Secunia lists an extremely critical vulnerability for Firefox on Windows. That is a lie. Secunia lists an extremely critical vulnerability for *nix (which, by the way, was fixed the very day after it was discovered), but not a single one for Windows. I've told you this about a dozen times in public channels and you ignore me every time. You know you're lying and misleading and you simply don't care.

You embody every aspect you claim to hate about fanboys. Everyone around you knows this. You lose every argument you engage in. You resort to outright lies, misquotes, fallacious logic and rhetoric to pretend that people around you aren't making points.

And the funny thing is that over time, you've added things to your Firefox Myths pages that make readers immediately question your credibility. You go on and on about how biased I am and how much I've been manipulating my tables, even though my changelogs are publicly available and anyone can test the data and see that it's correct. You go on and on about how the reader should just ignore any argument pointing out errors on your page and that you've only been banned from websites because the admins couldn't handle the so-called truth. You've done a very good job at totally smashing any form of credibility you've ever had.

But man, are you persistant. I've honestly never seen such a rabid fanboy as you. I don't know why you are so intent on trying to make Firefox fail, but those intentions are very clear to anyone with half a clue (and unfortunately for you, most people in most places you go do seem to have a clue). Firefox users, IE users, and Opera users alike have called you out on your B.S. and your deception, but you just go on spamming more sites on your mindless crusade.

Firefox is a very good browser. Opera is a very good browser. Safari and Konqueror seem a bit unbalanced in the areas of standards they support, but they're getting to be pretty good. Relative to the competition right now, Internet Explorer is pretty awful simply because there was no significant development work done for so long, but I believe it may become a decent browser again a few versions down the road if Microsoft commits enough resources to the project. You basically claim that I'm a mindless Firefox fanboy. You're entitled to your opinions, but please stop lying about me and things that I've done or said. Unlike you, I don't repeatedly threaten people with lawsuits, but what you've written about me is called libel and it is illegal.

Opera LOADS FASTER IN THE RAM, but is much much muuuuuuuch slower on rendering pages! Ever page I have seen, is much slower, and I have the new version that came out TODAY! Mark that as a fact that I can prove!

And you voted for Bush, why?

And by the way, what do you call this sentence: "Internet Explorer has very good support (81-86%) for the most important web standard, HTML 4.01." That sounds like two opinions to me: that Internet Explorer has very good support for it and that it is the most important web standard. I don't know how you do in school, but I don't consider a B grade "very good", especially when *everyone else* has a higher grade. And then the statement that HTML is the most important web standard is very questionable. Yes, it provides the foundation for the others, but most of the real web development work is in CSS and DOM, not HTML itself. HTML is easy and simple. CSS is the area with all of the bang-your-head-on-the-desk bugs that consume most of our time. Therefore, from a productivity point of view, CSS is the most important web standard for browsers to catch up on, and even Microsoft acknowledges this.

As for Acid2, that test was designed specifically to illustrate at least one bug in every major browser. Opera development specifically focused on that one test for a while until it passed it in development builds a while back, and now Firefox passes it in the reflow branch which will be incorporated in Firefox 3, the next version of Firefox with layout engine improvements. As far as currently released final versions of the browsers, Firefox generally seems to be more standards compliant in areas other than print CSS and some picky details in some HTML attribute handling that seem to be almost ready for a fix targetting Firefox 3.

My tables, a source that you yourself used on your article, show Firefox to be generally more standards compliant than Opera in most major areas (and equal or within less than 1% in the others). You say your sources are undeniable and irrefutable, so why do two of your sources appear to contradict each other? It's interesting to note that even sites like Secunia make changes and corrections over time, so obviously their information isn't undeniable and irrefutable. You've even been forced to make significant corrections to your page over time because you've been found to be flat-out lying or mispresenting your information (like you're currently doing with the Secunia data), so clearly your article is not undeniable and irrefutable. All you're doing is spewing out more myths and fanboyism and passing off everyone who disagrees with you -- even Internet Explorer developers -- as Firefox fanboys. When will you grow up?

More nonsense. You have no facts. Please provide documented reproduceable proof of this and stop wasting everyone's time with what you want to be true.

Ah the #1 Fanboy arrives.

So now according to YOU a "B" grade is not very good? That is laughable. Without HTML the world wide web would not exist. That is reality and you have already conceeded it is the foundation for the other standards making it the most important. The rest is YOUR opinion and irrelevant.

Anyone can see for themselves about Acid2. Stop making excuses, Firefox v1.x does not and v2.x will not pass the Acid2 test and claiming some hacked dev build as proof Firefox 3.0 "may" pass it is seriously pathetic. Funny how much standard support is pandered by Firefox Fanboys as being important until it is proven another browser (Opera) bests it.

None of the sources contradict each other. The one source is used to show that Firefox does not fully support standards, which is does. The other shows that Firefox does not fully support standards considered most important for the future of the world wide web.

Nothing has been misrepresented about the secunia data. It is completely accurate and anyone can count the vulnerabilities themselves. I understand that exposing the facts about Firefox's security is not something you want to be made public as you have shown by recently removing the vulnerability count on your myths page to cover up the facts because it showed how bad Firefox is doing with the vulnerability count.

I have and always will make corrections on the page to be more clear, get over it.

You haven't refute anything. You merely spam excessively long replies and think by using excessive wording you can refute something. You claiming something is refuted does not make it so.

I find it shows your true colors in how desperate you have been to cover up the extremely critical vulnerability in Firefox merely because it only affects Linux. I don't cover up Firefox's insecurity situation like you do.

I haven't lost a single argument. Here you go making declarations again. What kind of statement is this "Everyone Around Me"? You mean everyone around YOU. Your few Fanboys in no way associate anyone around me. I have never lied about anything but again you make these declarations. The fact is you don't make points you make excuses. You know the facts and make pages of excuses to cover them up all because you hate Microsoft and IE. That is YOUR problem.

Everything on the Firefox Myths page is properly sourced. My credibility is only questioned because I have to defend myself from the lies you fanboys spread about me.

As for you, you have proven how biased you are by deceptively redirectly visitors only from my page to specially created warning pages, not only did I catch you, you asked me to link directly again promising you would never do it again. Please, like I could ever trust someone who does something deceptive like that again. Now there it is impossible for that to happen again and people can see the facts unaltered themselves.

The reader should always ignore arguments like yours filled with rhetoric and excuses but no facts. I've only ever been banned by a very few Fanboy admins who know they cannot win the argument and thus want to silence it. Again you making declarative statements about me does not "smash" my credibility.

My intentions are to stop the spread of misinformation which is incredibly rampant with Firefox. If Firefox is so great then it should have no problem suceeding with the truth being told. The fact is Firefox is nothing more then a basic browser with an extension system that is overly hyped with misinformation and propaganda by rabid fanboys such as yourself.

The only person posting libel is you and your fanboy posse.

Ok here is your proof. Open Opera and Firefox or IE and see which page show first, I am not talking about the blank grey page that is there every time with Opera but Text and pictures. Opera waits until the WHOLE site is downloaded before it will render the page, that is not faster! Opera on version 9 still can't render BN correctly.

I would love to see what would happen if you two propellor heads met for real! lol You'd either rip each other apart, or you'd be really polite. Keep up the good fight!

Excuse please I've been drinking again... Molson.

"By Mastertech

posted Apr 21, 2006 - 7:27 PM

Worked for who? I don't work for anyone. I see you found another fanboy link of lies. Good work. Now trying arguing a single fact."

That is the problem, he doesn't work and has no idea of what work is, so he thinks just because it loads that it must work.

So you're saying that Secunia lists an extremely critical vulnerability for Firefox on Windows? Link me to it. I guarantee you it doesn't exist.

And of course standards support is one of the top priorities. Which is why I'm glad Opera 9 will finally fix some of the really annoying bugs that don't exist in Firefox 1.5. Compare this system I'm developing in Firefox 1.5 and Opera 8.5: http://nanobox.chipx86.com/desktop/ (note: this system is likely to change over time). Firefox 1.5 handles it fine, but Opera 8.5 chokes on it. You need Opera 9 to view it correctly. Firefox got to supporting these features first. I could easily call my system a test suite like Acid2 and say that Firefox is better than Opera because Opera doesn't support the standards I most want to use. But a simple test suite like that and Acid2 is a terrible indicator for the relative levels of standards support, as anyone with an ounce of logic (as in, not you) can understand. A better comparison is if you compare the support of *all* standards, say in a standards support comparison table like, oh I dunno, the one you linked to for your "Firefox isn't fully standards compliant" section, which puts Firefox 1.5 ahead of or virtually equal to Opera 9 in every general category. So this is clear and factual counter evidence against the claims you make on your page, but you still act like your claims are irrefutable.

Everyone with half a clue and a minute to fact check your page knows that you're spouting nonsense, but the sad thing is that some people who don't know better actually buy into your rubbish. I follow you around because I don't like people like you who spread myths and fanboyism. Remember, I have my own Firefox Myths article which has gained a lot of acceptance and I haven't heard a complaint yet. On the other hand, most people recognize the bias in your article. The poll you set up on Ars Technica showed that over 75% of the people thought your page was biased. Your technique is to say that other people are doing the things you're actually doing and you act like everyone who disagrees with you, including your own sources and the Internet Explorer developers themselves, is just a Firefox fanboy. Well heck, I didn't realize that over 75% of the population use Firefox, let alone are Firefox fanboys.

I will repeat: Your opinion is irrelevant. You say a B is good, I say a B is bad. Each claim is our own opinion, but stop acting like your opinion is fact.

I will repeat: You misquote me twice and misquote several other people to make it sound like they said the opposite of what they did. You lied about actions I have done on my website and what I have said. Several people have publicly complained about you lying about things they have said on your page.

I will repeat: Secunia does not list an extremely critical vulnerability that affected Firefox on Windows. It doesn't exist. Not there. None. You're making it up. The only extremely critical vulnerability Secunia lists for Firefox never affected Firefox on Windows, which your article says is the only thing you're talking about. I quote from the Secunia vulnerability report: "This vulnerability can only be exploited on Unix / Linux based environments."

You call everything I say "laughable". Well everyone around you sure is laughing, but it's not at me. Tell me, what public discussion forums *haven't* you left with everyone's boot in your rear?

Aha! So you admit that your page lies. You just said that the extremely critical vulnerability only applies to Unix/Linux based environments, yet your page clearly says "All Myths relate to running the default install of Firefox in Windows with no extensions." You said before that you aren't going to add anything to your page that doesn't concern Windows because you're only dealing with Windows on your page, yet you just added something that has nothing to do with Windows just because you can use it to make Firefox look bad.

And you think I'm desperate for pointing out your flaws everywhere? Why have you spammed your site hundreds of times on dozens and dozens of websites? Why did you spam the Firefox Myths page on digg 24 times, *not* counting comments, the vast majority of which were copied/pasted templates?

On StumbleUpon, your Firefox Myths page has 10 negative comments out of 13 total. The Firefox Myths page I wrote has 6 positive comments out of 6 total. On the Ars Technica poll you posted, 75 people out of 96 total voted that your page is biased. The popular opinion about your page is clear, and it's not just Firefox fanboys, as you can see by how people have responded to my version, which points out several of the same things.

Now stop lying about things I have done. I never redirected anyone away from the page you linked to. Meanwhile, you lied more than once about what my page even said. And we caught you lying about your identity and relation to the article. Here's a good quote from one of the threads where you spammed Firefox Myths, and someone asked if you were the author of Firefox Myths and the Popular Technology weblog: "No, My name is Vincent AKA Mastertech. Maybe the sites are by the same author neither is my site or one site copied another?" When I e-mailed Robert Accettura saying that I believed some of the different commenters on his weblog who supported the Firefox Myths page were actually the same person and I provided him with your known IP address, Robert responded, "Yup, that's him. I matched the both, as well as 2 others." You've also posed as someone named GeneralAres, FFeLEET, Realist, and others, all claiming not to be the author of the page, but all discovered to have the same IP address -- the same one you use. You say that I'm being deceptive? Wow.

No you keep saying this in hopes the extremely critical vulnerability will disappear from the page. The extremely critical vulnerability exists no matter how bad you want to cover it up. I find even funnier that it exists only on Linux, the OS you support.

What is said about Acid2 is very clear on the page:

"The Acid 2 Browser Test is a test page, written to help browser vendors ensure proper support for web standards in their products. Although the Acid2 Browser Test does not test every web standard, it tests the features considered most important for the future of the web. This test clearly shows Firefox does not fully support the most important web standards."

Firefox doesn't fully support standards and it doesn't fully support the standards considered most important for the future of the web (Acid2). Making excuses does not change these facts.

Thus you are countering imaginary information that does not exist on the Firefox Myths page.

Why not get it right only 1 of the sources authors disagrees with me and no IE developers have ever made any disagreements about the page known. You disagree with me because your mad your data is used to show Firefox doesn't fully support standards except I don't include the pages of excuses you need to try and cover it up.

Tell everyone in school how irrelevant their B grades are.

You have admitted to your actions of redirecting visitors from my page to a specially created warning page. You even begged me to link back to the source directly, well that is not going to happen.

The page doesn't lie about anything. I am not going to hide security issues simply because they may only affect Linux. Posting an extremely critical vulnerability in Firefox on Linux is information any Windows user would want to know. They should know that Firefox is even more insecure on Linux. You on the other hand are desperately looking for anything and in the process have done nothing but promote the fact that Firefox is even less secure on Linux. Too funny.

I love you declarations with no evidence, "flaws everywhere". That must work on the naive people you deal with and don't have to provide proof. The site hasn't been spammed anywhere, and it was posted to Digg anytime a new version of the guide came out which was not 24 times, many other people also posted the guide. Notice my account and history are completely erased to cover up the truth so the fanboys can use digg for more propaganda.

A handful of fanboys does not account for the hundreds of millions of Internet users.

Oh you were caught red handed redirecting people and I put a stop to that real quick. Your desperation about who I am is getting really pathetic and bordering on delusional.

I have been using Opera for several years and even paid for the licensed version. I have been testing their weekly builds and finally, the beta is here. Great browser!! Fast, stable, secure, small download and very east to customize. SPREAD THE WORD!!

*I have been using Opera for several years and even paid for the licensed version*

So, YOU are the one .. ah.

Opera's the best browser eva

I have been using opera for quite some time and happy with it. The latest version 9 is ok for a moment and out of the blues my XP pro pc memory starts to shot to 100% after i use its widgets.Any idea why this happen? I have downgraded my opera to version 8.5 now.

cannot explain it in words, but that imo it is the BEST one out there

...

No question about it: Opera is best.

...

The Computer Rodent

...

LOL! No question??? You must be forgetting where you are.

You people who find the need to bash other browsers, what are you, 12?

"They paypal you, or are you on the payroll?"
Don't be an idiot all of your life.

Opera is the fastest browser with a lot of functionality built-in. The themes are more numerous and much better than Firefox.

BTW, I use FireFOX.

Waah Waah mommy mommy FEWT the bad bad man said something I don't like again! WAAAAAAAAH

Go away.

It's Firefox. Fot FireFox, not FireFOX. mmmmKay?

Other than that nitpick, themes are *highly* subjective. Don't be an idiot all your life, eh?

Built-in funcionality is exactly why I *don't* like Opera. :)

I guess he WILL be an idiot all his life.

Awww did I hurt the poor little guys feelings?

AWWWWWWWW

Opera LOADS FASTER IN THE RAM, but is much much muuuuuuuch slower on rendering pages! Ever page I have seen, is much slower, and I have the new version that came out TODAY! Mark that as a fact that I can prove!

Posted reply to wrong name.

How nice to clone (or try to) one's name.

Get the facts about Opera and Firefox here:

http://mywebpages.comcas...D/FreewareBrowsers.html
http://www.FirefoxMyths.com

The only negative about Opera which is also a Firefox problem is the page compatibility issues. But there is no comparison, Opera is Faster, More Secure (0 unpatched vulnerabilities) and more compliant (ACID2).

They paypal you, or are you on the payroll?

Opera sucks, it's always sucked and probably WILL always suck.

The POS software doesn't even follow the Windows (or any other OSs) theme, it has it's own design end to end.

Sorry, that went out in the 90s.

Sure it had tabs early, but they were MDI which were useless. Now it's copied Firefox's implementation of tabs, woohoo Opera is such an original piece of code.

Even elinks displays pages better than Opera, so give it a rest already.

The sad thing here is that IE even offers a better user experience (oh look, a real windows themed scrollbar) aside from the exploits and spyware auto-installation obviously.

Nice argument there "opera sucks", I think we will get back to facts.

As for you getting auto-installing spyware in IE? What did you never install any security updates to IE or never uninstall MSJVM? Please don't spread misinformation.

MDI (Multiple document interface) always better than tab (TDI). And Opera 9 still use MDI. Access, Excel, photoshop... are MDI all. MDI much more powerful than tab.

------------------------------
quote from wikipedia
Compared to MDI
[edit]

Advantage

For people used to SDI, MDI can be confusing as windows can be hidden behind other windows. Some MDI applications lack a taskbar or menu to allow quick access to all windows, so in some cases a window can only be found by closing all others. TDI windows ("tabs") are always maximized, and all TDI applications have a taskbar or menu to allow direct access to any tab. It is nearly impossible for windows to get "lost" inside TDI.
[edit]

Disadvantage

TDI windows must always be maximized inside their parent window, and as a result two tabs cannot be visible at the same time. This makes comparing of documents or easy copy-and-pasting between two documents more difficult. Full MDI interfaces allow for tiling or cascading of child windows, and do not suffer from these limitations.

One example of an application that allows either TDI or MDI browsing is the Opera web browser. Using TDI by default, this application also supports full MDI and can also run as an SDI application.
------------------------------------

There is no misinformation there "mastertech" there is almost always a window where IE can be attacked if you were half a master tech you'd know that.

"and as a result two tabs cannot be visible at the same time."

Bleh, that SUCKS.

;-)

Opera not only had tabbed browsing before Firefox it had many great tabbed features WITHOUT wasting time installing extra extensions.

Then please prove it. Please provide a URL that auto-installs malware on IE. Otherwise you only have rhetoric.

http://www.sophos.com/pr.../2005/12/msexploit.html

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=801

Now go away.

They had tabs first?

Where's YOUR proof?

Wait you don't even know this either?

http://nontroppo.org/wiki/OperaInnovations

No I want a link that actually auto installs malware in IE so I can test it. I have yet to have one provided.

And I will never go away. That is a promise.

Why would I care to know this?

It's just useless information.

Then google it.

I'm not going to point you at a link where you can test it, A it's illegal and B only a fool would do that.

You seem to miss alot of information.

Like I said you have no proof.

No, not really.

Maybe concerning irrelevant technology like Opera.

LOL

Liar

The Firefox Myths site has been proven to be a farce. Here is just one of many examples:
http://www.techspot.com/.../firefox-myths-debunked/
http://www.techspot.com/...x-myths-debunked-part-2/

Why don't you ask Sophos or Websense nicely and they might tell you one of the 200+ websites they found?

(See links above.)

"And I will never go away."

Not even if we ask nicely?

Bare faced and brazen!

More blah-blah from the FUDMaster!

Uh-oh....looks like ya been busted!

Nope, too late. Your credibility is gone. Now go hide in shame. Better yet, go live with rijp.

Sorry I don't take in borders.. My warden won't allow it, damnit.

Yeah, this too is misinformation... there is *NO* way a program can just interact (patched IE) with the browser, and just *INSTALL* malware without *SOME* interaction. Now you sound like a user..

"I didn't do anything it just suddenly appeared, I don't know how it got there, I swear"

"Well what website did you go to?"

"www.blahblah.com"

"Really let me take a look. Ah, this the site?"

"Yes, that's it"

"Ok, now what? did you click on this page button right here?"

"... er, yes I did.. I guess.."

"Well -thap , slap, thunk- dumb ass, you *DID* click on something to install malware didn't you?"

"Oh, I guess I didn't realize, sorry"

- Yes, I too need proof, I don't want a google seearch for some BS link that is *SUPPOSED* to install malware, I want (like the man said) a REAL LIVE link you send me, and PROVE it does it.

Did you actually have it happen to you? Did you actually SEE it? Because of all my years in computers, I have NEVER seen a program just magically appear without you doing *SOMETHING* first.

I agree, you have *NO* proof.

(The above edited for suitibility, sensibility, content, and intelligence.)

...as you can see....nothing survived.

*grin*

Actually nothing did in FACT survive, as evidenced by its appearance (or lack thereof). The useful content did not survive, but its making a comeback!

There's lots of proof out there, it's not my fault it's not legal to show it to you.

If you want to see it, go look for it.

Put him in a straitjacket and toss him in the corner. Then you get double rations of food and Haldol.

Not even remotely.

Neither of those links dispute anything. Here are the facts:

Firefox Myths Facts

Criticisms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...isms_of_Mozilla_Firefox
http://internetweek.cmp.com/174907404
http://www.slyerfox.com/
http://www.ireallydontca...ex.php?page=fun/firefox
http://www.stopfirefox.com/
http://poptech.blogspot....re-secure-and-more.html
http://poptech.blogspot....refox-new-religion.html
http://4sysops.com/archi...-in-a-corporate-network/
http://www.udolpho.com/w...evelopers-point-of-view
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=192

Market Share Myths:

http://www.spreadfirefox.com/node/21923
http://poptech.blogspot....-update-conspiracy.html
http://www.informationwe...tml?articleID=177105800
http://www.personaltechpipeline.com/news/175804009
http://marketshare.hitsl...com/report.aspx?qprid=3

Performance Myths:

http://www.howtocreate.c...wserSpeed.html#winspeed

Security Myths:

http://secunia.com/product/4227/ (Firefox)
http://www.mozilla.org/p...rabilities.html#Firefox
http://www.cve.mitre.org...key.cgi?keyword=firefox
http://www.infoworld.com...HNfirefoxmatures_1.html
http://secunia.com/advisories/16128/ (Extensions)
http://secunia.com/product/4932/ (Opera)
http://blogs.msdn.com/dm.../2005/03/22/400689.aspx
http://www.eweek.com/art...2/0,1759,1785769,00.asp
http://www.securitypipeline.com/60401708
http://www.vitalsecurity...spyware-infects-ie.html
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=103
http://www.onlamp.com/pu...urity_myths.html?page=1
http://www.developer.com...icle.php/10923_626641_1

Feature Myths:

https://bugzilla.mozilla...200&changedsince=30
http://weblogs.mozillazi...en/archives/009749.html
http://nontroppo.org/wiki/OperaInnovations
http://www.popuptest.com/
http://blogs.msdn.com/rs.../2005/12/14/503778.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/...rowsing#Tabbed_browsing
http://www.webdevout.net...ser_support_summary.php
http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/
http://www.computergripes.com/firefox.html
http://www.computergripes.com/firefoxsites.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4115806.stm
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie.../2005/02/10/370721.aspx

Dude, your trolls are all over the internet.

This is more than just a sickness, you HAVE to be paid to post this crap.

http://www.google.com/se...&btnG=Google+Search

WOW, how much do they pay you?

What's your official title?

Jr Shill?

Oh, look at this one Mr K

"More illegal activity from Andrew K.

Andrew K., the author of the Firefox Myths article, has deliberately misquoted me on that page. He cut pieces of things I said and glued them together with no indication that such modifications were made. His page claims that I said the following:"

http://nanobox.chipx86.c...ivity-from-andrew-k.php

Oh this is interesting, your irrelevant statements are supposed to prove my credibility? Wrong try again.

It is one thing prefering another browser it is entirely another calling Opera irrelevant technology. Especially when it is faster, more secure and more compliant (ACID2) than Firefox.

Keep spewing rhetoric I am still waiting for reproduceable proof. I mean you think you could come up with 1 link, pathetic.

It matters to whom? The 1 person that uses it?

OOOOOOH ACID2, HOT DAMN!

Well, then Opera must be something.

Seems like it's about the only stat it has, no wonder no one uses it.

http://www.google.com/se...&btnG=Google+Search

rijp stop, don't confuse them. Let them go on believing ActiveX caused their infection *automatically* and it had nothing to do with trying to "hit the monkey". Let them go on thinking Windows XP just crashes at will and locks up and it has nothing to with their overclocked system, defective hardware or virus infection.

We will be waiting for many years for a link. Not ONE single person has EVER given me a link to autoinstalling spyware yet it is out their EVERYWHERE according to the fanboys.

There is Sooooo much proof yet you cannot provide ONE single link? Why is that? Oh right it is not "legal" please. I have looked around and have never found one.

Please provide proof.

My information is all over the Internet. Your declarations of something do not make them fact. How come you stopped arguing facts and moved onto this BS? Out of ammunition?

You have no credibility, anywhere on the internet.

Sucks to be you.

Didn't you just post that fanboy link of lies above? Interesting once I destroyed all your arguments with facts you moved onto this in desperation.

That is an interesting claim. It should read:

"Firefox Fanboys cannot stand facts and logic thus they must make unfounded accusations as a last resort."

Yeah I have no credibility because Firefox Fanboys say so. Good one.

1 person? You mean 394,000 on this site alone?

http://fileforum.betanew...for_Windows/945720329/1

Keep up the misinformation.

There's nothing to argue, you go from website to website spreading your lies and FUD.

They couldn't sell it, hell they can't even give it away (sure millions of people downloaded it, but the stats haven't changed).

Get over it.

Out of facts now, you are getting desperate.

OoOh I feel so h4X0red!

LOL

What facts? Your facts aren't facts.

Fact Opera is better at ACID2, OMFG everyone HELLO EVERYONE! ACID2 is the r0X0rs, go buy Opera, it's 31337!

No, those are download stats not usage stats.

More desperate lies.

I haven't spread a single lie or FUD. Please provide evidence of your claims. Your tactics are getting old. You have no proof, no facts, no evidence of anything.

And it is faster and clearly more secure.

Your tactics are pathetic.

OH RIGHT IT HAS 3 FEATURES!

SOLD!!

Sort of destroys your lie about only one person using it. Funny I bet you use Firefox yet are posting here in an Opera thread where you claim only 1 person uses it. So what are you really afraid of?

Not a desperate as your ..

N/M, you aren't even worth the humor.

DAMN I FIGURED IT OUT! You and your hand had a fight again, didn't they.

So sorry.

Yep, and you call yourself "Mastertech" too.

Master of what, oh right trolling.

Yes information and facts are real pathetic.

There are no facts, only twisted half truths force fed to readers like it was crack.

No, it only says that more than one person downloaded it.

You are twisting the truth yet again fud packer.

Prove one thing, I dare you. One thing.

It has many features:

http://mywebpages.comcas...D/FreewareBrowsers.html
http://www.opera.com/features/

Those 3 are the best reasons why it is better than Firefox.

Ok. (Andrew K. AKA Mastertech)

"Andrew K., the author of the Firefox Myths article, has deliberately misquoted me on that page."

http://nanobox.chipx86.c...ivity-from-andrew-k.php

WTF, it's not a drug quit selling it like people are gonna get hooked.

Yes over 394,000 downloaded here alone. Which by simple logic means more then one person would be using it.

Please continue to dodge providing proof.

Prove it.

(heh commercial)

You are desperate if that is all you got.

I never said it was a drug, it is a browser.

There are over 10-15 million users of Opera:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39204643,00.htm

That's the claim, not the proof.

http://www.thecounter.co.../2006/April/browser.php

There more "other" browsers than opera users chump.

I'm not gonna prove that you and your hand had a fight.

Sorry, I know how crushed you must be.

Prove it's not true then.

How could I possibly disprove what the Fanboys say about me? We all know what they say is Gospel. I mean look at all the facts they brought to the table here.

AAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Your link just proved over 800000 people use Opera.

Go and ask Sophos for a link, or are they lying when they said they found sites using the exploit to install malware? Who am I going to believe, a major security company or Mastertech? Let me think about that for a while ..... Hmm, I think I'll trust Sophos.

So Sophos and Websense were lying when they said they found those sites using the IE exploit to install malware? Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously?

Spend $9.20 a year and get a domain name. You get them cheaper if you buy more.

Well here is some; The BS you have spammed all over BN on this topic alone!

What a sad little person. I feel for you. Do we need to start a charity to support your family after you get sued for the lies you have told?

Dude, stop! you have not, yet posted a single fact, but want to call everyone else a liar and demand facts to prove you are wrong. You are the one that is spreading s*** about another company with 0 facts, you are the one that needs to back it up, no one else.

Opera is ****ing slower to render than anything I have ever seen (loads to RAM faster, but that is IT!). The crap you can make with the tutorial for VB 2005 Express is better than Opera from the start and it's IE based.

Dude, Opera is less than 2%, get off the freaking crack!

So MS spend 100's of man hours creating and testing pacthes for something that isn't there? Grow up Michael Moore (or however that retard spells his lying a** name).

Again, MS just loves waisting money. On fake sites that aren't there. They like to make people think they are secure so they make up lies about vulnerabilities and then spend millions on a patch and testing it.

Good job removing it, not worth it.

Get the truth about Mastertech here:

http://nanobox.chipx86.com/FirefoxFables/

Learn the truth about Mastertech's hypocrisy over Opera here:

"I love things that work and IE works. Everytime I have to switch to IE to see or use a page properly is a waste of my time. I have to do it EVERY day. How can I possibly recommend this to anyone? When they could simply use IE or preferably Avant Browser and never have to switch to anything? The argument isn't their. I don't sacrifice for things that don't work. My time is my time. Why "put up" with something when you don't have to? For an idealistic dream? Get back to me when Firefox or Opera renders all of the Web correctly. Neither is ready for prime time as far as I'm concerned."

http://s4.invisionfree.c...?showtopic=544&st=0

So what, still *1* percent and *STILL* less used than an "unknown" browser.

My link only proved that you are wrong yet again.

Go ahead and twist it Mr. ghetto operack dealer.

Nope, but I had nothing better to do for a few hours last night heh.

It was kind of nice having nothing to do, that NEVER happens anymore heh.

More libel and lies about me from the fanboy posse.

Since I don't tell lies, there would be no need for a charity.

Then provide a URL, it should be simple.

Yes please trust these links that no one can provide.

You just typed another lie with that post.

If the fact that you link to the Poptech blog/forum at the top of the OptimizeXP/Firefox myths site, post there as Andrew, identify yourself as Andrew at the bottom of the OptimizeXP/Firefox site, and say exactly the same things on both sites isn't enough to convince anybody that your are either a)schizophrenic or b)lying, here is the proof:

1) You have posted a reference to Firefox Myths on the Poptech forum, where one of the forum members identified you as the author:

http://standards.spiralmindsinc.com/misc/Priceless/

2) You refered to the OptimizeXP site as 'my' guide on the forum:

http://72.14.203.104/sea...uk&ct=clnk&cd=1

3) You used the name GeneralAres for an image folder on the Poptech blog site. This is the other name you use for posting pages from OptimizeXP/Poptech on forums like TomsHardware, PCMech and AnandTech, and is also an email address you use when posting as Mastertech.

http://images.google.co....F-8&sa=N&tab=wi

After all of these facts were poited out to you, you tried to cover up the truth by deleting pages or renaming folders, but unfortunately Google retains a record of your guilt.

Give it up Mastertech. Wouldn't it just be easier to admit what you have said?

I really didn't think you would be foolish enough to repeat your 'IE with SP2 = infalible security' credo after the recent CreateTextRange episode, like a soggy King Canute after the tide has gone back out telling us that we haven't just witnessed him up to his neck in the water.

Carry on in your quest for the Holy URL, Mastertech, you really are the laughing stock of the internet!

You really are an f-ing idiot, no one in their right mind is going to send you a link that will cause damage to your computer.

It's instant jail time, and you know it. This is how you justify your lies as facts because it's illegal to refute them.

busted, cuffed, and made into the cellblock b1tch.

You are desperate.

Still no URL? Why am I not surprised.

although probably "the fastest browser on earth" indeed, it has some quirks with some flash content (or shockwave, i really can't tell the difference) from some pages, but trust me its a one in a million and maybe im the only idiot who came across that.

hell, who cares! this is by far the best browser on its whole.- firefox is for grandmas; if you need a more seriously designed browser, get Opera. And remember its in BETA phase yet.

No mean to offense, i just really feel this is the truth to it.

- Plus, try the acid2 test with IE, Firefox and Opera and SEE IT FOR YOURSELF.
http://webstandards.org/action/acid2/

- - - - -
Who agrees?

Opera 9 beta is faster but it cant upload big files.
I'm waitinf for offical version 9.

Opera is freeware. Do you like it? Use it, you don't? no problem, keep using FF or worse, IE: Buuh, I'm worried about writing the name... Could I get infected? After installing the patch number 971 for version 6.0sp1 IE continue being the most insecure piece of software I saw, amazing!!

You're beating a dead horse, man.

What *EXACTLY* is wrong with IE? And being a MS product doesn't count.

I like IE. I use it. I think Opera is a POS. I think FF crashes too much, and I have tried EVERY, and yes, EVERY browser..

Netscape works well for me. IE is great, because MOST websites (intranet and many commercial) are optimized for IE.. So don't give me this c*** and bull story about IE.

You just said.. if you don't like it don't use, but don't complain about it..

I have been using Computers for oh, 25 years now, I can safely say I have *NEVER* *EVER* gotten a single virus, EVER. SPYWARE? NOPE. I use IE about .. 95% of the time.

So stick that in your browser favorite.

Have you tried, perhaps...

...OffbyOne?

Doh!

OK, Every browser but 1..

Would that qualify as beastiality or just necrophilia?

elinks?

How about Arachne?

beastiphilia

"I have been using Computers for oh, 25 years now"

Wooooooooo. Hold on. You are like 17. Shut the phuq up you lying biotch!

Opera 9.x is so fast that I finally uninstalled Firefox for good. And guess what, no more security hassles between Firefox itself and its flaky extensions!

Name one vulnerability that you were hit by as a result of an extension. I dont mean an extension you had that had a vulnerability, but one that AFFECTED you by causing you lost time or lost data. As I said below, extension security vulnerabilities have been blown out of proportion by fanatics of opera and IE.

:) good move! the best you could do for yourself.

Here is a very serious Extension Vulnerability:

http://secunia.com/advisories/16128/

And here is how malware can be installed on Firefox:

http://www.vitalsecurity...spyware-infects-ie.html

Again, were you hit by it? I can go to a website and point out an open security hole, but if you arent affected by it, then why whine about it?

You mean like the people whine about getting malware in IE because they never applied a security update or never uninstalled MSJVM but blame IE and ActiveX? Or the ones who click yes to install some infected application from a website?

The point is people really don't know why they get infected and consistently blame the wrong thing. The majority of infections by far are from people manually installing things.

Both of those links point out two things.

1. Extensions can be very unsafe
2. Malware can install through Firefox

That is important information people need to understand.

I don't think anyone was hit by it. It was detected and fixed long before there was mass knowledge about it. And it's also as far as I know the only extension that ever posed a security threat.

I'm sure Opera has plenty of vulnerabilities, people just won't be looking for them until it has enough market share that it's worth their time to hack it.

It's the vulnerabilities that you don't know about that are the ones you have to worry about the most.

Funny. If you're going to argue facts, at least get them right.

1.) Old version. Fixed ages ago. Still, it was a flaw in an extension, not Firefox. Yay! More FUD. Thanks.

2.) The problem lies with Java, you moron, not Firefox. From the Linked Article:

" Upon visiting the target website, nothing happens. Nothing that is, unless you have Sun Java Runtime Environment installed on the host machine."

So are you just utterly failing to understand the articles in question, or are you simply twisting them to further your own fanboyism?

No, it's just that I want software that's coded well, not sloppily. I want THEM to test it before they offer it to their minions. I want THEIR computers to get infected before they infect MINE.

If that's asking too much of the Mozilla Corporation, then count me out. It's as simple as that.

Idiot. Read once in a while, it's a big help to the rest of us not to have to read these lame-ass knee-jerk responses.

Can't tell which item you are referring to, but if it's 1.) It's not mozilla's job to test 3rd party code against their browser. If you download an extension, you take that responsibility upon yourself. If it's 2....again, It's a Sun issue that affecta *ANY* browser. The dumba** above simply saw the word "firefox" in the article, and, like you, knee-jerked his way to morons-ville.

Here again is a misnomer, it has the POTENTIAL to be exposed, but even though FF has problems in my case, I can say it has never been exposed, on my machine...

So you can get AIDS from a hooker. How many hookers do you come in conact with? Maybe if you have AIDS, maybe that's your damn problem.

Quit hanging out in scum bars. Browsers are the same way, you stay on the clean areas, I fail to see why you people expose yourself to problem areas, when you *KNOW* they exist.

I could use this same argument for IE...

*1.) It's not Microsoft's job to test 3rd party code against their browser. If you download an extension, you take that responsibility upon yourself. If it's 2....again, It's a Sun issue that affects *ANY* browser. The dumba** above simply saw the word "Microsoft" in the article, and, like you, knee-jerked his way to idiots-ville.*

- modified for content -

P.S. PC_Tool, please sign here, for permission to re-edit/use your content :)

____________________________________________

lmao..

Ah...but Firefox isn't built into the core of the OS, now is it? *grin*

Sorry, man...couldn't resist.

Well...that and no-one apprently readds the links they post.

That last one referrs to a Sun Java vulnerability that affects the OS and is only remotely browser realted due to the fact that it uses the sun-java browser plugin.

Talk about a stretch.

OK, so is that a pro or con?

Some would argue that it has an inside track, and therefore was blamed (unsuccessfully) on Netscape's poor performance in Win 95.

Others would say, it gives unfair advantage, even though it crashes and it doesn't work as well (or doesn't suck as much) than other Microsoft products.

So if it is part of the OS, the OS would then succumb to the same level of vulnerabilities, and by that very argument, since the Win XP OS does NOT have the same exposure as the browser, the "core" of the OS then is also not at risk.

So therefore, IE is a separate browser, because if it were a breech in the matter anti-matter, then Geordi will have to run a level 3 diagnostic on said Warp Core, and we wouldn't have an eminent breech. Therefore, the Calgons wouldn't be better than Ivory, and we all know Submarines don't have screen doors, and that's why fire engines email are read.

You see? Its all Al Gore's Fault! Just call him and tell him to reboot the stupid internet.

You still here???

Delusion - A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.

They have drugs for it. Seek professional help.

Wait you don't know anyone with Java installed on their browser? *gasp* Java is as common as having flash installed.

That definition describes you exactly. Now please read the links and facts I have posted AGAIN.

You call them facts, but they prove nothing.

You also claimed that Firefox was full of holes, nothing but twisted lies.

"so is that a pro or con?"

It's both actually.

I simply link to facts:

Firefox Has over 96 security vulnerabilities:
http://secunia.com/product/4227

Firefox has many bugs:
https://bugzilla.mozilla...200&changedsince=30

YOU have no idea what a fact is, do you? Here I will help you.

http://www.tfd.com/fact

Go ahead, offer him a free hit.

You know you want to.

You enjoy packing FUD, don't you.

I've been downloading the regular weekly builds and each one has improved on the next. I especially like the simple way to block unwanted content like ads. BTW the default is for Opera to identify itself as Opera 9.0, but the user can still change it to identify itself as IE or Mozilla if a stupid site is visited that demands those browsers.

Hey, why isn't there a torrent extension for Firefox? (Extension devs take note.)

Might not be for all people (some might prefer to use a separate one) but it could also be nice if you like all your eggs in one basket.

I thought the beloved FireFix had extensions for everything...

Actually, it already exist... they are extensions for everything (and not all are listed on Mozilla Addons)
https://addons.mozilla.o...torrent&app=firefox

Those ONLY search the torrent sites, you need a external Bittorrent client.

Opera does both, searches and downloads.

Agreed. I wish Firefox had this functionality as well. It is surprising that not one of the billions (yes, I'm exaggerating) of extensions provides this function.

Oh really?
http://moztorrent.mozdev.org/
There you go, torrent client extention.

See above.

Erm, it's a dead project, that has not had any postings since the middle of last year, and has never released any files.

Do you actually check this stuff before you post? You should, it make you look like a newbie...

See Above...

Bit Torrent Extension....

http://www.Allpeers.com

Er... Not done yet?

Why are we using bit torrent? What is wrong with news groups?

Separate the downloads from the browser, and let the browser view HTML/Text. That's my reasoning for using a download manager, and why I don't like to integrate extensions that control downloaded content...

*It is surprising that not one of the billions..*

- start's to type something -

*...(yes, I'm exaggerating)*

- damn he caught it! -

hahahaha...

recursive logic. I hate people when they are just redudant, superflous, repeatedly repeat repeated repeats just to be over repetitive, and they keep going around and around in a circle, and we never seem to get anywhere, and it seems like its just starting over again, because I hate people when they just repeat themselves, which is really redundant, and its really repetitive, over and over, and they seem to just ramble, and nothing ever really gets said..

You know what I am saying?

3 things I can't stand

- duplication,
- reduplication
- repetition
- reiteration

"it make you look like a newbie..."

And ESL students everywhere understand this perfectly...

...and the dutch.

dingdingding!

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!

The benefits of using a download manager go *far* beyond speedier downloads.

OMG, but I think in political terms, this is what we call a detente! We actually agree!

What about those damned dirty apes!

Ohno! Not the apes again!!!

Wow another link to something you cannot download.

umm thats because if u read up its in beta testing, btw so is opera before ya start saying, its in opera now. :P

When you download binaries from newsgroups, you download from one specific server.

When you use BitTorrent, you spread the network load overal *more* servers (or clients to be more specific). This saves bandwidth per server.

Opera started a major overhaul for cookie-handling, but they didn't finish it in time for this beta. If they ever get the new cookie-handling working correct, it will be good, until then its a show-stopper for the beta program.

Will Opera 9.0 identify itself as Opera from the get-go, or will it still be identified as MSIE after setup?

Opera will ID as opera by default in opera 9.

Opera is realling rocking, but there are still some glitches with certain websites like yahoo mail beta, windows live mail, live.com and many more. although this may be because of badly developed websites, it interferes with the surfing experience.

the built in downloader is also great but it lacks features like segmented downloading and mms support.

Could Nathan Mook *please* stop with the extremely vague and annoying claim that "intellectual property holders see BitTorrent as a boon to piracy"?

Continuing to make that claim only makes BitTorrent look more shady. Something entirely unnecessary, as even Nathan himself claims in the exact same paragraph.

Disney says the technology should be embraced and the MPAA thinks it's a great technology (and they have been in talks with Bram Cohen). CNN/Fortune wrote about this exact issue last October: http://money.cnn.com/200...9/technology/bittorrent/

So please? Stop with spreading the FUD?

Ummm... he's telling it like it is.

You even said so yourself.

He didn't say BitTorrent is a boon to piracy. He just said intellectual property holders see it as that. Are you going to disagree with that statement? Didn't think so.

It's not FUD. It's the truth.

Fortunately, with this integration into Opera, I believe the protocol will start to improve it's rep. I love it and use it for many legit downloads. I hope that this can be a turning point for BitTorrent.

It could easily go the other way though... By making it poart of the browser instead of an optional add-on, they may be seen as throwing their lot in with "the pirates". They could actually lose support because of it.

Time will tell. Frankly, even though I despise the browser, I hope they make it. They can only improve, right?

*poart* ?

OK, that's enough coffee for you.

As for improving, umm.. the same could be said about many products, did the Pinto ever improve?

Hey, don't 'dis my ride, holmes.

OK, bro.

WOW, Dead Milkmen *AND* a PINTO?

heh

Opera is definitely NOT the fastest browser on Earth, and they should get more skins, the regular one stinks.

"NOT the fastest"
Why not prove it
and if it not the fastest (modern) browser, then which one is the fastest.

Erm yes, Opera is the fastest, certainly on Windows, and usually on Mac and *nix. It's fastest to start, renders fastest (by a long margin), lowest memory footprint, and javascript handling is the fastest of all the modern browsers..

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

This is the most reliable benchmark, but there are many others that tell the same story. I have seen benchmarks that also show Opera to be substantially faster, than Firefix, even with the FasterFix mod.

Because they can't prove it. Firefox Fanboys wouldn't know facts is they came out of the encyclopedia Britanicca.

agreed

fanboys are getting so boring and dumb that i don't even want to provide them links.

Didn't someone post the link to the firefox myths, and didn't the article prove that Opera was IN FACT *THE* fastest broser? I think so.

Someone is having a little bit of trouble reading the posts.

Wow, I can't believe what I am reading..

Where were you people like 4 months ago, when I need some support when I said FireFox was a junkie Beta wannabe?

Still drinking bubbas.

Then don't...and that will save us from reading your whiny posts!

Lynx is faster.

Sorry chump

Lynx is NOT a Graphical browser. So no one cares. Disable all images in your browser and WOW pages render faster, no kidding!

Can you use it to browse the web?

Then STFU, it's faster.

More evidence that you are full of sh*t.

Any one with an ounce of common sense can see how desperate your comments are getting.

Oh right, I post an absolute and I'm desperate.

Go sell your operack elsewhere.

The 1 user of Opera here doesn't care.

No one wants to buy your operack, maybe the next street err forum over you can get one hooked.

Yeah! Opera 9 rocks, especially bitTorrent support.

ok f!refox users, its time to ditch that bloated browser and go for something less memory hungry and fast 'net browsing... great work opera and well done for keeping it free!!

No thanks, I like extensions. You go right ahead though. ;)

Who needs extensions, with their vunrabilities, Opera does pretty much all that the extensions do anyway.

Plus, have you seen how many unpatched vunrabilities Firefix has lately??? (Opera has none...)

Firefox will have a major security glitch sometime in the future that will result in mass infections. Maybe not today--but soon.

I still have to personally stick with IE. It CAN be secured, it works with all the websites, and it uses fewer extentions which allows me to very closely keep it in check. Opera is buggy on certain pages, FF is just--annoying, don't know why. I personally just can't seem to get the hang of its interface. Just me probably.

From the reviews and such, I bet Opera is more secure than FF. Still can't use it since alot of web pages I've used don't work with it.

And have you seen how many of those affect real world users? Or how many of these extensions have had vulnerabilities? Dont get me wrong, opera is my default browser and i love it, but if it had extensions or even 3rd party support it would be SO MUCH better! Extension security vulnerabilities have been blown way out of proportion by the opera fanatics. I have only seen ONE security vuln resulting from an extension, and that was the greasemonkey vuln.

Also, As you said, it does PRETTY MUCH all that extensions do, there are still a lot of things that extensions can add that opera DOESNT do, such as saving of field text for autocomplete, proper form filling/password management, in line find, to name a few

i agree with you 100%.
i feel sorry for those who still use ff and claim it to be better.

well words cannot explain how wonderful this really browser is.

And i don't feel so strongly about many things.

Nice job Opera desktop team !

You obviously havn't used opera, as you would realise that inline find is there (press .)

Password management is there, it's called the wand, and stores all form data.

As it happens, most of Firefoxs features were originally developed by Opera, and stolen by Mozilla: tabs, popup blocking, sessions saving.

most of Firefoxs features were originally developed by Opera, and stolen by Mozilla

Yeah. I saw that. They snuck in one night, grabbed all the features they could get their hands on, and ran when the alarm sounded. Man... it's a good thing they got away alright. Otherwise, FF would be useless.

*phew*

That's my biggest complaint with Opera right now. I don't use it because it breaks so many pages. Yet, everyone hails it as the most standards-compliant browser available.

That may be, but a "standards-compliant" browser is useless to me when apparently 50% of web pages I visit ...aren't.

you got it man!

SHHHHHHH!!

Not only that, but all those other applications that "stole" these same features. It seems that many of the opera fanatics are quick to whine about how every other browser "stole" their features and use that as justification as to why opera has as little market share as it does. I use opera as my default browser, it is the best IN MY OPINION, but I dont try and sugar coat anything. Yes, maybe opera did develop a feature first, but its not about who did it first, its about who did it best or who made it the easiest to use.

Careful, you'll bring down the ire of the fanboys...

its called evolution, all browsers take on ideas from everywhere, the same as anything else in life, they just adapt, in this case it is a product adapting to the needs of the consumer, opera included, i use firefox, because it does what i want, btw where did opera steal widgets from??? hmmm i wonder....could it be the mac os

opera:config *cough*

Dont go pointing fingers at others for "stealing" features when your beloved product is guilty of it too. I love opera, but I dont live in a make-believe world and attempt to justify opera's low success rate by insulting other browsers and whining about them using a feature that opera might have come up with first.

Imagine that...somebody "stealing" in the tech biz. Shocking!!!

sorry metshring i was trying to make a point to mark to say that everyone "steals" features off other products, opera is as guilty of it as any other product is.

Yeah, a big 3.

This is verion 9 and the wand still doesn't work, Ummmmmm hello?

Run! I think I saw Thor's hammer with Opera's logo on it.

I realize that, I wasnt actually directing that at you. please accept my apologies

Well as we all know no browser is bulletproof, however opera has the lowest share of any browser out there. it is the clunkiest thing I've seen since Netscape 7. They even offered their browser for free and it can't get any traction or more supporters. I mean I downloaded it and tried it out when it became free, it sucks. Slow, I don't think any pages I visited supports it and there is a fraction of support for it vs ff or ie. I love ff, the extensions are great, the functionality of it is superb and it's being updated all the time. Not to mention it's cross platform so when I go to Linux I can use all the same extensions and have my profile identical as on Windows.

Nothing to complain about with FF I love it and I hope it continues to innovate. That at least let's ms know they are not truly the greatest software developers or "innovative as they claim.

Sounds pretty cool. I'm going to have to try it out.

Don't be so narrow minded... I use both browsers (and some others as well). Firefox is best for my general browsing habbits, which require a good deal of security, high compatibility and medium speed as well as a high level of customization. And when it comes to compatibility and customization Firefox beats Opera hands down. Opera on the other hand is great for when I require speed or an unusual level of security... not because I'm sure that Opera has less bugs than Firefox, but because I'm sure there are even less hackers targeting Opera due to it relatively small marketshare.

Anyway, as long as people stop usop using InternetExplorer (which really IS a pain to write HTML for) I'm happy.

BTW, here's the stuff that I'm missing in Opera and that keeps me from using it as my main browser:
DOM Inspector
FlashGot
TabPreview
GoogleToolbar
AdBlock Plus
RefControl
WebDeveloper
Greasemonkey (no, the integrated Opera stuff is no alternative)
Showcase

you lost all credability, when you claimed FireFox was more customisable than Opera... It opera, you can customise EVERYTHING, if it's not in the GUI, you can modify it using the INI files. For example, visit here:

http://nontroppo.org/wiki/CustomButtons

You can drag buttons from the site to virtually anywhere in the browser. You can customise menus, including right click menus, and pretty much everything. You can also save setups, and download other peoples setups.

Tab previews are in 9, as is Google toolbar search (has been for years), as is a better version of adblock plus (right click on a ad infested page, click Block Content, and select the ads to block). You can edit ad blocker prefs on a site by site basis, and apply wildcards.

I think WebDeveloper is also, if it's what I think it is ( View, Style, Author Mode).

You should really take a good look around 9, i'm sure 90% of what you claim is missing, is actually there...

then again perhaps the need to define one 's own choice by the (perceived) flaws in another's is simply a sign of insecurity. consumer choice is a wonderful thing non?

LOL.

Since when is trying something new being "narrow minded"?

Get off your pedestal, you trolling fanboy.

that is one of the most stupid posts ive seen, what else is more important than speed and security? YOU have chosen Opera yourself for those. And i guess the latest version you may have tried could have been Opera 3, because Opera 9 is way more compatible than ever before and as mark gillespie says, your list "of missing features" is clearly obsolete.

Open your eyes and mind once again, and go check Opera 9 buddy.

Consumer choice is a good thing, misinformation is not. Opera is very customizeable. Saying Opera is not customizeable is like saying extensions do not exist for Firefox.

Hey, watch your tone, boys.

Anyway, could we try this again one by one, because if the functionality is there I'm actually eager to learn about it.

1. What's more important than speed and security:
User interface, compatibility and tools for example.

2. Trying being "Narrow minded"
I was refering to the overall tone in general, not that post in particular.

3. Firfox' way is already pretty difficult for the majority of users, but how many poeple spend time reading through ini documentation? I don't. I know it's there and I had a look at it briefly when I tried to install the (old) adblocker (which I couldn't get to work).

4.Custombuttons... do you mean the Bookmarks toolbar? Anyway, moving UI elements in general is identical in FF and Opera.

5.WebDeveloper lets you disable styles one by one, manage images and the like... most importantly (for devs) it lets you disable stylesheets based on location.

6. I'm talking about the google toolbar, not a google search box: spellchecker, GoogleSuggest in the toolbar and so on.

7. I'm not saying Opera is not cutomizable, but the way how it is done seems to be very uncomfortable to me and also most extension developers...

8. Tab preview: Where? I can't find it?

9. Block content seems to do exactly what it says: block ALL content... at least no page I tried it on remained usable in this state... adblock is a filter system where you define rules like "URL contains /ads/" that prevent content from appearing.

"8. Tab preview: Where? I can't find it?"

Move your mouse over the top of a non selected tab and wait a second.

Ah thank you... I've got my Firefox tabpreview set to delay=0 so I always sort of hover over the tabbar :) ... Any way I can set the delay in Opera to 0 too (and maybe also keep it from displaying the url and make the actual preview larger)?

about:config

I think he means in Opera, not Firefox.

Can you be more specific as to why you are looking for FlashGot in Opera? In case you are looking for a way to automatically transfer downloads to a download manager installed on your pc, then that functionality is already in built in Opera.

Indeed I do... anyway, I can't even find it mentioned in opera:config...

??

opera:config
about:config

work in Opera....

Dude....

about:config exists in opera *only* as a redirect to opera:config. If you're going to post config tutorials, please try and be specific, eh?

Boys?

Are you dutch by chance?

nope....they're apes.

Come ON!!!! Speed is not everything! If all I wanted was speed I would use IE.

Mark, You are the worst fanbiotch I have ever seen on BN you claim MACs are great, but can't back say why they are better, and you act like Opera is so good, yet it does nothing. It can't even render BN right and I have the latest beta.

After moving recently from Maxthon to Firefox I've tried Opera and am very impressed by it, Enough to decide to keep it on my system; my girlfriend uses it exclusively on her PC and I'll be downloading the beta as soon as I get home from work tonight (I've been using the previews for weeks now).

Fanboy extremism for one browser or another just isn't rational in an age of such powerful computers: no one browser is better in ALL areas, each has good and bad points. So why not make use of all of them, for the bits they do best? In my view Firefox has some great extensions, Opera is generally faster & leaner (IE really is a last resort nowadays). It's not as if we're being forced to adopt one and only one...!

So lighten up, guys, and quit b****in' at each other! :)

Please tell me where I say MAC's are great (I assume you mean Mac's, rather than MAC's, which is something different entirely).

Personally, I think Mac's have no place in current buisness or home. They are a very niche product, that runs very niche software apps.

Sounds like your having trouble spotting "fanbios", I suggest taking a look in the mirror for starters.

Cool, i'm not very good at being a "fanbiotch". Sounds like your very good at being one.

Please come back, when you have a basic understanding of the English language..

9. If you want to block a specific item on the page, press s*** while clicking on it (or else it will block ALL pictures located in the same place on the server). You can also edit the blocked addresses afterwards (Tools->Advanced) and put in wildcards. E.g http://ads/*

i only ever use slimbrowser firefox and opera IE drags and is to unsafe to use its pritty lame considering there the most powerfull company in the world but then again IE just messes up all the time and well really just shouldent be in XP Pro at all i recon u should have the choice to choose what 1 u wanna use not the 1 they want u to use

wtf,WTF.

what were you thinking ?

Yes it its, opera is a more responsive browser.