- Rijp! I can use Active-X (Brrrr!) with any embedded IE engine, or with an one click the IE or IE shell.
- I CAN'T INSTALL new toolbars: I CAN MAKE new toolbars more flexible way.

I don't understand this hating of Opera from FF and IE fans, if Opera is so neglectable! :o

It's a content dispenser. Why shouldn't it be free?

I will download Opera when they roll out with support for add-ins or extensions. Right now, Firefox is the way to go for me because it does exactly what I want it to and it's easily customized.

Are the FF folks mad that soon more people will choose Opera? Opera is free AND secure, so it's 2-for-2 and the latter throwing down some serious smack fu on FF.

No actully! I think everyone needs the software they choose and are comfortable with it. A long time ago when I was living in the dark world with IE. then came FF! It took along time to get used to it but it is worth it.

I think Opera is an ideal choice for the less adaptive and IE for the people who suck on eggs.

P.S: Why should we be mad?

Oh yeah! Opera is a little to heavy for those with small hardrives.

P.S:Switch to NTFS fast!

I have fully encompassed the use of Opera instead of IE and Mozilla-ware. It's a high performing, standards-based browser with plenty of neat, practical features. Nothing against Firefox. Opera seems lighter-weight/quicker. I look forward to seeing more innovations from the Opera team.

I don't care what browser ppl use as long as they dont use IE. :P

Firefox suits MY needs. But to each their own.

I think this is one of the most ignorant statements to date. What diff does it make what browsers people use, if it doesn't affect you? You have a personal vendetta against Microsoft or something?

Don't be jealous of a company because you don't understand how to use the products. People can use whatever they like. I have a problem with people complaining that Mozilla, Firefox, and other 3rd party applications are perfect and never have problems, which is complete Bulls***! That's when I have to set people straight.

I happen to like IE, and if you don't, we aren't holding a gun to your head to use it. But don't impose your will on others simply because you don't like MS. This is a FREE country.

"Don't be jealous of a company because you don't understand how to use the products."

I didn't see him implying any sort of jealousy.

"I have a problem with people complaining that Mozilla, Firefox, and other 3rd party applications are perfect and never have problems, which is complete Bulls***!"

That's funny, who said they were perfect, I want to read those comments!

"But don't impose your will on others simply because you don't like MS."

Where did he say he didn't like Microsoft? What do they have to do with anything here?

"Where did he say he didn't like Microsoft? What do they have to do with anything here?"

I believe the original poster mentioned "IE."

*doublechecks*

Yup.

He implied he didn't like IE, he said nothing of Microsoft.

Last I checked you could not like a focus without hating Ford.

;-)

Yes, but I was referring to this part "What do they have to do with anything here?"

Far as I know, Microsoft had at least a little to do with IE.

I was just joking anyway =p

"I think this is one of the most ignorant statements to date."

Funny, I thought that about your entire post.

Maybe he just happens to know that IE has single handedly stagnated web-development. By not supporting new technologies and standards, web sites remain limited to the same abilities they had 1999. Pitiful png support, insane rendering bugs, and weak css support often require web devs to use less-than-optimal markup or outright hacks and scripting to do things that modern browsers can do simply by supporting CSS properly. Go to http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ for a script designed to bring IE up to date, a project started when MS didn't care to keep up or innovate.

As long as more people use non-Microsoft browsers, the market-share king is forced to update its browser to keep up.

Web developers can't afford to go with a "this site requires {insert standards-compliant browser here}" tag on their website, but they'd sure like to.

:-P

IE breaks on a lot of pages (my gmail for example)
Firefox breaks on a lot of pages (and, my gmail for example)
Opera breaks on a lot of pages (and again, my gmail for example)

I use opera primarily because of its familarity to me, IE for pages breaks down on opera or sites only rendable in IE. I still use firefox 1.0 once in a while. Tried it out with great enthuesthm (download it probably 10 times) in the beginning but quickly cooled down, and got colder as the new upgrades pops up like crazy. Nothing against firefox, it is just not for my taste.

I have a gmail account and have not seen any problems with gmail and IE? What problems are you having??? I find that FF and Opera has alot more problems with webpages not displaying correctly

I have Maxthon browser and IE. I have Gmail. I don't have a problem with "break". Maybe you are running some pop-up blockers or add-ons that are "breaking" Gmail.

Gmail works fine with IE and Firefox for that matter..

I never liked Opera and being free won't change it. I always had problems while programming standard pages for multiple browsers and seeing them not working properly with Opera because of some lack or problem in its HTML/JavaScript engine. Granted that was with 7.x series and never checked back with 8.x (why should I?).

Anyway I hate the interface and I'm now quite accustomed to my personal Firefox configuration that each day sees an improvement to give me a better browsing experience. Each day I'm amazed even more. Truth to be said I hated Firefox more than a year ago but they improved a lot and it has major community support.

And, mmmm... still closed source. :/
Of coure I'm an Open Source advocate. :P

But in the end is the user who has to chose the one he likes more, and download numbers are always crap for every program out there. They are never a definitive indication of success.

In my sites I see FF growing in usage as well as Opera (at a slower pace but maybe now that will change), only IE is going down and that's what all of us should be glad about.

Funny what you say. I was told some years ago, when Opera started to turn up in the software world, that it was my utmost duty to test my HTML code with OPERA, because if it ran on OPERA it would run with every other browser as well. So, nowadays OPERA is the braking wheel of HTML developpers? Funny - but you never stop to learn . . .

yea downlods surge but i bet there were alot more uninstalls afterwards :)

"yea downlods surge but i bet there were alot more uninstalls afterwards :)"

More uninstalls than downloads?

Only a Firefox fanboy could have "flawless" logic like that :-D

Where's your proof?

What makes him a "Firefox fanboy"?

Put up or shut up.

wooa, uptight Opra Fanboy? it was a joke try to relax a little

That's not what he said. He said there would be more uninstalls. Meaning that AFTER you download, people would then uninstall the product after seeing how bad it is. He didn't imply there would be more uninstalls than downloads.

You should quit reading comic books, and understand simple english, cabana boy.

lol umm.... groanz was right. try reading it again maybe?

"but i bet there were alot more uninstalls afterwards"

The only noun mentioned before that was "downloads." English is our friend.

I wonder Merlin (aka Opera 9.0) which technical previews will be released this year. More about it here: http://weblog.timaltman.com/node/794

I use Opera and I am happy with it.

PS OT, Europeans can try freeware Opera Mini for cell phones (every cell phone with Java). It works with flying colours. I have tested it for some days and I am amazed.

Opera is cool

And.... have skins!!!, like windowblinds

and... remenber the webpages if the SO crash.

Cool? I don't think so. You can't use ActiveX. you can't install toolbars, some websites with Macromedia don't show the flash images, some animated gif images don't display, java is quirky.. how cool can it be?

Evidently you only use it browse porno pics.. so maybe you have not found another use for a browser, hmmmm?

Opera is the best full-featured browser for older or less powerful computers. I'm using Opera on a Pentium 233Mhz 32RAM and it works great. Firefox uses tons of ram. IE doesn't have enough built-in features.

There's a new kid in town (sort of).
His name is Opera.

OK, "Pentium 233Mhz 32RAM" says it all for you, pal.

I bet you still have VHS tapes too huh?

This is my backup laptop, jerky.

opera is great.. just needs easier native adblocking...

Downloaded it, tried it a few times, it now sits with MyIE, and IE in a 'Web' folder of shortcuts on my taskbar.
I even forgot I had it until I read this article. ;)

It's clunky to me. I use FF for about 99% of my surfing. Some sites actually require IE or a clone, so that's when I pull out MyIE2. Maxthon has never worked for me for some reason. It won't even open its own forum pages, but I can get there with FF. go figure.

Use what you're comfortable using. Jeez, that's why we have choices and variations. It slays me that people get all 'uppity' about how their browser is 'best'.

There IS no best browser. plain and simple.
There is no PERFECT browser anyway.

A Perfect browser is relative. For me, Opera is perfect, as I'm looking for a web suite that runs on my soviet era laptop (five years old). Firefox takes too much mem, and Maxthon, well, I use it for Writely, but not much else.

Opera rocks. Some of it's features are not that instantly apparent, in particular, the mail client, with the database views. But once you use them, you wonder how you ever managed without. Using Firefox, IE, OE or Thunderbird is no longer sufficient...

Sleek, fast, solid, proven, and doesn't break with every update like Firefox. What's not to love?

I've used firefox for years, well before 1.0 I can only recall it breaking once, and that was on .9 something.

No support on any sites and NO extensions! There are two very large reasons not to love the crappy software.

Ditto.

I'd hardly call Opera crappy software. I'd call IE crappy software. I don't like the lack of extensions though, and I even further dislike the uncustomizable interface I experienced in 8.0.2.

Firefox for me!

"No support on any sites"

You mean like Slashdot, which Firefox can't even render correctly?

"NO extensions!"

Extensions? Opera has most features built in, and most Firefox extensions are about duplicating Opera functionality.

Anyway, there are ways to extend and enhance Opera, so you are lying.

"There are two very large reasons not to love the crappy software."

Crappy software which is smaller and faster than Firefox, yet more functional?

Ah.

Where's the proof?

Firefox renders slashdot just fine with Firefox on both Windows and Linux across 6 of my computers.

Where's your proof that Firefox is "duplicating" Opera functionallity?

What interface is used to extend Opera?

Put up or shut up.

IMO, neither IE, Firefox, or Opera are "crappy" pieces of software. They're all pretty advanced and have few problems when you consider how complex they are.

I certainly couldn't write anything better lol.

I downloaded it. But I was not looking for a safer browser. I just wanted to see what they offer. Opera is much better then FF. But I will still use IE for now

When OPERA 8 came out, OPERA's CEO, Jon von Tetzchner declared to swim to the US if the first million downloads would be trespassed in the first 48 hours - starting from Norway, stopping over in Iceland, for a warm up at his mother's home.

What does he promise now?
Some little walk to the moon?!

Please, let me know!

Well I think that 1 million downloads are probably downloaded by the opera users who has paid for all the previous versions of opera,and they probably downloaded it as an update version, so i think that's not a surprise that it hited the 1 million downloads mark in 48 hours!

That is true, and Opera sets itself to be identified as IE by default. But still. I think it's awesome that it is getting so much attention.

No matter who wins the browser wars, more competition means the users win no matter what.

Well i think Opera identifies itself as Opera since the version 8 came out?! I'm not sure... but sure more competition means users will be able to choose from various browsers that fit their own favour!

and every developer loses.

In Opera 8.1 preview2 (just a limited beta) the default was Opera, but in all _final_ versions up to 8.5, it identifies as IE.

Only in the short run. In the long run, it is eventually good for the developers too.

"Well I think that 1 million downloads are probably downloaded by the opera users who has paid for all the previous versions of opera,and they probably downloaded it as an update version, so i think that's not a surprise that it hited the 1 million downloads mark in 48 hours!"

Yeah, the way all Firefox downloads are upgrades.

Of course.

Hey I tried it, but I don't like it. For a start I couldn't organize any favorites, it had a google search bar, and was unintuitive. Please don't tell me I don't know how to use it. I know you can customize. I think it needs more tweaking and I don't have the time to mess with it. I'll stick with IE for all it's faults, which aren't many as far as I can see.

good good good... I prefere not to use IE, and if software developers start seeing a jump in other browsers - hopefully they will not only require IE, but maybe an alternative will be there too. Yeah probably not, but it would be nice.

not going to happen until it reaches a formidable user base percent (5-10%) ... which will never happen as long as opera continues to break pages that display fine in ie and firefox.

"which will never happen as long as opera continues to break pages that display fine in ie and firefox."

Funny, that. Firefox breaks on a lot more pages than Opera.

What pages?

Put up or shut up.

Sample of one: I downloaded the day of "freeness," installed, used for about 3 minutes, then closed it and it sits unused. WHen firefox no longer sits my needs and whims, I'll give it another shot... until then: no chance.

Hopefully this event will spell the end of the Fire Flopping whiny babies. Opera is a superior product, has been for a long time...and believe me, it is being used exclusively by multitudes of people. It is the legitimate alternative to IE.

I usually don't respond to trolls, but this is ridiculous. Let me finish this sentance for you.
"Opera is a superior product, has been for a long time..."

...for anyone who wants to be told how a browser should act and what it should do.

Personally, I like extensions, I like being able to take a basic browser and add ONLY the features I want.

Yeah, Opera is a good IE replacement. Just like sheep tend to like being herded.

I've got nothing against Opera, it's fast, it's small, and it's got nifty features. I just want additional features that Opera is not willing or cannot give me.

I *do* have something against people who label all users of a particular product as "whiny" just because we don't use yours.

Takes all kinds, my friend. To each his own.

remember Phoenix..."trolls" is a gay word....try and stay in your closet with your paper dolls and Norman Bates mother.

"remember Phoenix..."trolls" is a gay word....try and stay in your closet with your paper dolls and Norman Bates mother."

WTF are you a little child? A homophobe?

sounds like you and Phoenix are "partners" lolol

Yes Folks!!! We have Firefox in one corner, and Opera in the other corner. And, IE what's IE? That was a browser that died out long ago. Good Riddance to IE long live the superior browsers instead of the trash that Microsoft puts out.

Umm... last I checked, IE was far from gone. Opera and Firefox may be better, but that doesn't mean more people are using them unfortunately.

Good news ! Soon the world will be free of IE :).

Yep, especially since this news is conclusive evidence that users that download opera are actually switching. YEAY! GO OPERA! ANOTHER GREAT STATISTIC WITH WELL BACKED EVIDENCE!

END sarcasm

It is indeed a very wonderful thing, however the only proof shown here is that people are interested in other browsers, not that they are switching.

I do hope though that we see the statistic showing people sticking with Opera over the next few months.

Oh I SEE /fwack

What evidence? What was it 10-20 million downloads for XP sp2. Does that mean 10-20 million switched back from FF or some other browser to IE. NO

Download your product does not mean I switched to it. Don't mislead

"In fact, Opera has said the majority of downloaders were IE users looking for a safer alternative browser."

Umm... you could say that. But that's purely speculative. Where's the data they're basing the claim off of?

I would agree with this statement more:

"In fact, Opera has said the majority of downloaders were IE users."

...which of course they were. I would bet that the majority of downloaders for almost ANY program are IE users since IE has such a massive market-share/user-base. The statement really says nothing...

**EDIT**
Clarification: What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure we already knew IE users were the primary downloader of Opera. It's just kinda funny that Opera added the "looking for a safer alternative browser" clause at the end.

Well put! Couldnt have said it better myself

D'oh.

yeah, I gotta start reading beyond the first sentance.

I think the point he is making is that just because someone DOWNLOADED A BROWSER doesnt mean that they are now USING THAT BROWSER EXCLUSIVELY. Download stats dont necessarily equate to USAGE stats

Their claim simply means that it is not just FF users looking at "the other" alternative browser, but that the new users/downloaders are mainly IE converts/users. So, yes, it is a valid claim. Don't jump to conclusions too soon. I agree that the reason for looking at opera could be purely speculative, but I am sure Opera has done a fair amount of market research on the subject.

If you don't like it, you should have avoided using it in your post.

"I guarantee the majority of downloaders for ANY program are IE users since IE has such a massive market-share/user-base."

->"I would guess that the majority of downloaders for any program are IE users since IE has such a massive market-share/user-base, but there are plenty of exceptions where they aren't."

Fair enough.

But I dunno... That's a pretty sure thing when IE has 80% of the market. The only exceptions I can think of are specialized plugins etc. such as Firefox extensions.

I can think of a few programs being downloaded that aren't being gotten with IE.

Quite a few.

I think the SBC Yahoo browser, the new version, is pretty good. granted it is a shell of IE, but it's pretty slick. Opera and FF just have too many gadgets for me to bother with. And the stuff on Netscape 8- it took me an hour just to customize the toolbars. ack.

Read my Edit on the comment. I guess I wasn't very clear with my original post.

It's the reason they mentioned for the statistic that I was making my point about.

anything associated with Yahoo or AOL should be banned from the net.

yeah, been a long day.

my bad.

Yeah, although there are exceptions for a program here and there, you're right that on the whole most downloads are made by IE users. What I'd love to see though is statistics on how many downloads per user per browser though - That'd be hard to find out without spyware. :P

On a per site basis it's different though. Several sites(can't remember which offhand) report close to 80% of their users using non-IE browsers. Nomatter what downloads are offered on those sites, it'll likely be from a majority of Firefox users(or Safari if they're mac sites, but I don't really count them since IE is on a different platform).

Hmmm... That is interesting. I hadn't heard that about 80% non IE users on some sites.

I guess I'm just too used to everyone complaining about IE's monopoly.

Yeah, it's cool - there's a couple where Firefox users just seem to congregate. Maybe someone else saw the article on it a while ago, and has links?

That actually makes me think about something - it's quite common for people to rip IE out of windows using nLite. I wonder how many people looking at gutting their MS software use IE? I'd probably guess nLite gets something like 60% IE users, 40% other, simply based on the type of program it is, but it would be cool if they added a counter to store the stats so we could find out.

Edit: Oh, and naturally, many sites get almost 100% IE users. Everyone has heard of that...I think it was mentioned in an article about MSDN or MSN or something not rendering right in Firefox, and they were saying there wasn't much point of fixing it because of the tiny percentage of FF viewers those sites get.

MSDN recently updated to support Firefox based on demand. ;-)

Er... Does not compute. SBC Yahoo's browser is a bloated mess of buttons and toolbars.

And you think Opera and FF have TOO MANY "GADGETS"?

LOL.