RSSParamount Switch to HD DVD Evens the Stakes
By Scott M. Fulton, III and Ed Oswald | Published August 20, 2007, 2:32 PM
Owners of Blu-ray Disc players anxious for the upcoming release of Shrek the Third were shocked to learn this morning it was not going to happen - at least, not for the brand they'd chosen. The Viacom division, which now includes the DreamWorks Animation label, said it has chosen to resume supporting the HD DVD format exclusively, effectively reversing its decision of October 2005 to release in both formats.
The move appears sudden, as only ten days ago video press sources were given notice by Viacom that Shrek the Third and many other titles were being released for both formats on November 13. Now, Viacom plans to formally commence its exclusive HD DVD support with the release of the Will Farrell comedy Blades of Glory on August 28, with Shrek and Transformers to follow thereafter. Those three titles combined garnered $1.5 billion in US box office sales.
In a statement early this afternoon, Viacom stated its studios' mutual decision "resulted from an extensive evaluation of current market offerings, which confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology and lower manufacturing costs."
Executives there may also have been swayed by recent announcements made by Chinese manufacturers to produce even lower-price players, with an apparent edge given to HD DVD; as well as Wal-Mart’s decision to exclusively carry low-end HD DVD players in the near future.
When Paramount made that 2005 decision to support both formats, it quoted Home Entertainment division president Thomas Lesinski as saying the company's reasons were twofold: First, it looked forward to Blu-ray leading Sony's PlayStation 3 into the home in a big way. Second, it re-evaluated the cost of making Blu-ray Discs versus HD DVDs, and decided the difference was not all that great.
But this morning, the landscape looks very different. PS3 wasn't mentioned, but the cost factor was. Perhaps even more importantly, it was the studio production heads -- not the home entertainment division heads -- leading the charge this time.
Paramount Chairman and CEO Brad Grey took the banner. "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater," Grey stated, "and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount." Grey's comments were coupled with a strange remark from DreamWorks head Jeffrey Katzenberg that somehow HD DVD was better suited to families.
Lesinski has been known to be personally impressed with HD DVD, especially the 45 GB double-bonded disc project which was launched in 2005 - another multi-ply project in high-def which has yet to bear fruit. But historically, he's been an advocate for a cautious approach, telling reporters that his company's tack is to let the market decide which format should eventually rule the high-definition home. Either the company has made that decision, or Lesinski's been overruled.
In either event, the news was taken hard by Blu-ray aficionados. On the unofficial Blu-ray.com blog, there was a rumor that Viacom had received a $150 million payout from the HD DVD Promotions Group. That rumor was apparently launched by LA Weekly blogger Nikki Finke, who first repeated whispers of Viacom's pending move on Sunday.
Just last month, Blu-ray.com reported that Paramount would release Blades of Glory with a PCM 5.1 lossless soundtrack for Blu-ray only, with a lossy soundtrack on HD DVD, with other similar releases to follow. According to that story, its sources cited HD DVD's space constraints as a key reason.
A fresh check of High-Def Digest, which was apparently updated this afternoon, shows the "lesser" audio format for Blades' forthcoming HD DVD release to be Dolby TrueHD 5.1, which is not exactly all that shabby.
Viacom's move leaves Warner Bros. as the single major studio to straddle the fence by supporting both formats, as Universal hangs on tight to HD DVD while the various Sony studios, Disney, and 20th Century-Fox maintain their allegiance to Blu-ray. As a senior member of the AV Science Forum commented today, "What worries me most is what [Warner Bros.] does next. If they go HD-DVD exclusive which I think they will, everything will be back to square one."
Huge shock? Paramount was an exclusive HD-DVD supporter back in 2005 (actually the first to announce titles, well, ain't we happy we didn't have to see an HD-DVD with Spongebob...)and made it crystal clear from the beginning that their support for Blu-Ray was based on gigantic sales forecasts for the PS3 - which didn't happen (blame it on Nintendo's Wii, the price tag and the lackluster supply of games).
A PS3 owner having 2 Blu-Ray titles doesn't create longevity in sales. The classic home theatre aficionado is favoring HD-DVD players over Blu-ray players (PS3 company excluded), he is the one creating longevity in sales figures.
Certainly, the poor PS3 sales figures are not a secret to Warner Home Video. If they think along the lines of Paramount, they'll be next (returning to their original format of choice).
My two cents: Their releases of Matrix and other goodies on HD-DVD will not see a Blu-Ray release any time soon...
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When the press release was issued stating that Paramount would be supporting HD DVD exclusively, it was a huge shock to the Blu-ray community. What would drive a movie studio to abandon the more widely adopted high definition format, abandoning potentially millions of Blu-ray consumers, for an inferior, under-supported format? As we found out, it was a red suitcase filled with $150M and the promise to extend this needless format war for another 18 months.
Paramount hasn't been a huge player in the high definition war thus far; they've only managed to produce 33 titles for Blu-ray. In sharp contrast, Fox/MGM has so far released 38 titles (over the course of six months) and has another 29 planned for the remainder of the year. Additionally, Paramount has been the slowest to adopt the latest technology, just recently adding AVC support (with ‘Flags of Our Fathers') and almost supporting lossless audio (a PCM track was planned for ‘Blades of Glory'). Their releases are solid, but not even close to the presentations delivered by diehard Blu-ray supporters Disney and Sony.
So why did the HD DVD Promo Group pay $150M for exclusive support if that support would be weak? Very simply, they were in deep trouble heading into the forth quarter of the year. Universal, previously the only exclusive HD DVD studio, had seriously bombed in the theater during the summer months, meaning they had few if any blockbuster release for the holiday season on home video. HD DVD needed a reason to exist, and an ultra special edition of ‘Evan Almighty' just wasn't going to cut it.
Essentially, they spent $150M for the exclusive rights to ‘Transformers' and ‘Shrek the Third'; and of course, potentially, any other Paramount/Dreamworks blockbusters released in the next year. What remains to be seen is if these high profile releases can do what other exclusive high profile releases have failed to achieve: sell HD DVD players.
What the HD DVD Promo Group really bought was one year of life-support for the ailing format. An end to this war was penciled in for early next year, but with this recent shift in support, there is little hope for that now. The shift adds more confusion to an already confusing format war, and consumers will simply stay away until the dust settles; and who can blame them? If a studio can be so easily bought, why shouldn't they hold out until the HD DVD Promo Group is ready to buy their support as well?
The obvious first reaction is what you have been witnessing on this website and others: panic. It is easy to let a big press release make you doubt why you chose Blu-ray in the first place, but Paramount's support wasn't the only reason. I can't lie, the news does sting as I have enjoyed many Paramount releases, but I won't let it sway my stance. Stay “Tru Blu” and keep supporting Blu-ray. Resist supporting an inferior technology for one or two movies, and enjoy the countless classics currently on and coming soon to Blu-ray. The best Hollywood studios, most respected producers and directors, and even Paramount's own engineering staff prefer Blu-ray over HD DVD. They all have voices, and not even $150B would be enough to silence them all.
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It doesnt matter.. once 1 major movie house jumps ship.... that format is over. Blu-ray may become the sharper image of formats, but the mass populous will probably have all HD-DVD in the years to come.
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Erm, the mass populous have Blu-Ray today.
5 Million Blu-Ray players sold.
200,000 HD DVD players sold.
Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD 2:1 on media sales.
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I don't think a rather embarrassing 2:1 ratio is something that I would brag about, considering the much higher number of BD players out in the wild.
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Cheaper players, better films and more HD screens will boom or doom the format. The grass looks greener on the HD-DVD camp, and the Blu-Ray camp and fans are rightly worried, history might repeat itself. Never mind, Sony will learn and eventually the law of averages say they have to get it right sometime. Its not all bad though, they could always licence and make HD-DVD players and actually make money on a player.
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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Let me see like Hollywood would say 5 million blo-ray units and 200,000 HD and blo-ray is only outselling by 2:1. To me that is a serious concern if I was a studio. The blo-ray owners look to be so supportive of the format. Cheaper players for the HD side will add owners and the 2:1 will vanish.
Again 2:1 with that many more units is pathetic and not worth bragging about. In fact I would be very concerned.
Some how you keep avoiding this rather important aspect of the format war.
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Agreed.
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LMAO.
You're genuinely upset about this aren't you?
I'd love you to prove that $150 million BS rumour all you Blu-ray shills are trying to claim you 'know' about
(all cos 'biased Bill Hunt said so?!
Yeah like he'd know......such a well informed 'insider' he turned out to be, eh?
Whining like a spoilt brat after the event - knowing nothing of it before - cos it pi*sed on his chips and little BD fanboy campaign).
Then you might like to put up some numbers (you know profits, cashflow etc) that show how $150 million would be such a massive deal to a massive company like Viacom/Paramount.
But nevermind, at least with your absurd ravings you don't have to actually stop and consider anything Paramount actually said, eh?
I mean, they did only produce both formats for a year and fully evaluate both, after-all.
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"Erm, the mass populous have Blu-Ray today."
- That's it, right there.
The flaw in the Blu-ray strategy.
PS3 is not "mass populous".
It's a mere minority of the game console market.
A game console market that is tiny compared to the home a/v market's DVD player numbers.
The truth is there isn't another 3.7 (or 4 or 6) million PS3s being sold anytime soon.
That's done with.
It's HD DVD that can look forward to selling multi-millions of their inexpensive HD DVD players, not expensive Blu-ray......and Paramount/Viacom know this, hence the move.
Warner next, count on it.
"5 Million Blu-Ray players sold."
- Inflate the number all you like it merely proves how pathetic the game console platform is at selling movies.
"200,000 HD DVD players sold."
- It's 400,000.......but if you want to say your 5 million can only outsell 200,000 by 2:1 then feel free.
It's just hilarious how you don't get what a laughable situation you are describing yourself.
"Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD 2:1 on media sales."
- Well there's a straight out lie (again).
Blu-ray has sold 2.2M compared to 1.5M of HD DVD sales. no matter how you cut it that isn't even 2:1......
......with (according to you) 25 times the number of players.
LMAO.
.....and you think that's 'good'?!
You really can't see why Viacom/Paramount jumped?
You just don't get it do you Steve?
It's merely a matter of time.
HD DVD will hit the mainstream mass-market first and sell in the millions (far more millions that PS3.....the Toshiba laptop/notepad numbers alone guarantee this will happen).
That's when HD DVDs far superior attachment rates will pay off.
It's just a matter of a little time.
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You must be blind,you want proof?But money talks: Paramount and DreamWorks Animation together will receive about $150 million in financial incentives for their commitment to HD DVD, according to two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified.
"The incentives will come in a combination of cash and promotional guarantees. Toshiba, for instance, will use the release of “Shrek the Third” as part of an HD DVD marketing campaign."
http://www.nytimes.com/2...-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8554
NYT Confirms $150M HD DVD Exclusivity Deal
BTW HDDVD IS ON LIFE SUPPORT,BLURAY IS CRUSHING HDDVD
The hddvd installed base is pathetic and miserable,NOBODY is buying hddvd,just check the NIELSEN NUMBERS to see how HDDVD is sloooooowly dying;BYE BYE HDDVD
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No clearly you'r blind.
There is no proof of the bribe claim.
You're now choosing to catagorise promotion as bribery (like Sony/Blu-ray don't do such a thing).
It's ridiculous.
This isn't about someone choosing to go format neutral, this the first time someone has actually dumped one of the competing formats.
Blu-ray got dumped.
Some "crushing".
LMAO.
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So if it's bribery when Microsoft pays a company to adopt it's technology, what is it called when Sony does it?
And yes, you are genuinely upset about all this, which is freakin hilarious. You have no life other than the "freinds" you think you have over at blu-ray.com.
You are the typical cult member who has been brainwashed. People as yourself need to feel like you're part of a "group" to feel important. But in the end, you know that you are still an unhappy, angry person with no creative ability or ambition to aspire to be something better, let alone the best at anything.
You drank the Kool-Aid a long time ago, poor unhappy bas****.
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Yes Steve, and that's an attach rate of 13.5 to 1 in HD-DVD's favor. But you already knew that because I can add and divide and pointed it out.
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Hollywood would say that.
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To all you PS3/bluray co#k suckers.
HA!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. MICHAEL BAY BACKTRACKS and becomes HD-DVD CONVERT!!!
Heres the new post he made on the same website were he said No blu-ray no Transformers2.
"Last night at dinner I was having dinner with three Blu-ray owners. They were pissed about no Transformers Blu-ray, and I drank the Kool-Aid hook, line and sinker. So at 1:30 in the morning I posted -- nothing good ever comes out of early AM posts, mind you -- I over reacted. I heard where Paramount is coming from and the future of HD and players that will be close to the $200 mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard.
As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard firsthand people upset about a corporate decision.
So today I saw 300 on HD, it rocks!
So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!"
heres the link ... http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/
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http://store.aetv.com/ht...t/index.jhtml?id=101540
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Dave is see you are Ray Dorset today, no one is fooled moron.
It was Steve yesterday and MinuteMaid the day before. I almost forgot about metfatant or whatever the f**k that is.
You are showing you're true loser colors lately.
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I love it. All of the Dave clones over at blu-ray.com are saying we don't need Paramount, but in the same breath saying f**k you because they are mad that a studio realized BD is not doing so good.
The BD clan is upset because Paramount realized only one out of every two BD player owners has bought only one movie or .55 per player.
They also know each HD-DVD owner has bought 7,5 per player. If they get more HD-DVD players bought, a lot more movies will be sold per player.
They are also mad because they cant afford a combo player, in which case, it doesnt matter who does what or if this silly war goes on forever.
They chose one format and now have to cheerlead, it's sad.
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This is very interesting, because up until this point I haven't seen a single movie on blu-ray that is a must have. Will be interesting when Transformers comes out EXCLUSIVELY on HD_DVD, boy I'm glad I chose the most logical and practical side.
About the only thing that can safe blu-ray at this point in my opinion is the Star Wars series being an exclusive for it.
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Blade Runner Final Cut... That's Warner, right... Warner goes HD-DVD...
Guess which format is gonna make big bucks at X-Max :)
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Blade Runner Final Cut is Blu-Ray, it's also got uncompressed audio.
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Laserdiscs had uncompressed audio too.
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Wow, that was good for a giggle. Bravo. :)
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Viacom have really gone an done it now. Not only have they angered consumers waiting on the fence for an early end to the HD war, they have also angered whole movie industry.
Even Spielberg and Michael Bay are enraged by Vaicoms money grabbing dumb move!
I wouldn't be suprised if this single dumb decision to take Microsoft's money will end up being the end of Viacom.
The only people happy about this, is 200,000 HD DVD owners, everyone else sees this as a REALLY dumb move.
I don't see this as changing the outcome of the HD format war, merely extending it, bad news for everyone, including Paramount/Vaicom, who will now simply get left behind on HD, supporting the lame and dying HD DVD format.
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you got to the biggest retard ever.
you think Micheal Bay outrage will bring the end to Viacom.
i understand being upset but thats taking it a little to far.
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Lol you keep telling yourself that Ray. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Although you will probably not get much sleep whenever $ony goes under from all of their losses as of late. You might want to start looking for another job.
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Your lack of insight and a clue amazes me. The people you mention do not own the movies the studio does. They can do what they want with their property. If said director is offered money to do a movie he isn't going to say I can't do that because you don't support Steve and Ray's format. Get over yourself.
Kids love Shrek so tons more players will be selling to get the Shrek series and other great movies.
You are just upset that support is slipping away for blo-ray.
Everyone else! I would say that the majority at this point could careless about this. When was the last time that you compared the HD format war sales compared to DVD? Yes the majority could careless.
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Normally this is true, however Speilberg retails the distribution rights to his movies, hence why they are excluded from this deal.
Speilberg wants them on Blu-Ray.
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Spielberg may want them on Blu-ray, but he is not exclusive to Blu-ray. If they're released on Blu-ray they will be released on HD DVD as well, with the sole exception of Close Encounters.
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SH*IT
here comes the tsunami...
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The folks at Blu-Ray.com sure are a bunch of idiots if they think HD-DVD has insufficient space for lossless audio. I suppose the Blu-Ray.com folks also think that the best audio that all HD-DVD players support is CD quality 5.1 channel audio too. Morons.
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Are you saying 21GB more than DVD, is enough for HD picture, multi-channel uncompressed audio?
Sorry, you're plain wrong.
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Perhaps you'd like to explain how come the majority of Blu-ray movies are on 25gb single layer BD discs then Steve?
Goodbye Steve.
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Yes, because the codecs used by both HD formats are much more efficient on the video side, than DVD's mpeg2.
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Dolby TrueHD audio is identical to Blu-Ray's PCM audio when it is decompressed. I guess the Blu-Ray.com folks really are morons.
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He said "lossless", not "uncompressed"... big difference, but no difference in audio quality if it's lossless.
Read...
And 21GB more than DVD is apparently enough for the aging MPEG-2 compression that Blu-ray insists on clinging to, which necessitates the use of the higher storage capacity. Why wouldn't it be enough for more efficient and identical VC-1?
Sorry, but you're plain wrong, and the movies available should prove it to those who do not chose to ignore it.
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Breaking News.
Looks like the deal may not go ahead, Paramount and Microsoft are being investigated by FTC for anti-competitive behaviour, regarding the $150 million payoff for backing HD DVD.
http://www.forbes.com/ma...x_jl_0802markets31.html
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Man, talk about desperation... link doesn't even go anywhere... what other rabbits you got there Steve?
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They get more desperate every day don't they. Now they have stooped to linking to links that don't exist.
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The difference today is we have HD-DVD/BD combo players. There was no VHS / Beta player.
Combo is the way to go. No worries. Or buy both players, which in hindsight was pretty dumb on my part.
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There's always a chance that you'll have to keep buying combo players if part of your collection ends up being on the wrong format. Which kind of sucks unless the price is the same (or there are no single format players). Think DVD recordable drives these days. They all come with the ability to do every DVD recordable format. That's the optimistic side.
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This fight really needs to stop. This reminds me of the old fight between Betamax and VHS.
Both have there pluses and minuses they should combind the 2 and come out with one great platform. hahahahahah :|
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Technology + no fight = no profit.
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The Porn industry is going pure HD-DVD.. You know what that means? END GAME for Blu-Ray LOL
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Actually, you couldn't be any more wrong. Blu-Ray is leading the adult HD war..
http://www.cdfreaks.com/...lu-ray-Disc-format.html
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6142519.html
http://www.tvpredictions.com/hirsch111006.htm
http://www.computerworld...amp;intsrc=news_ts_head
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Let's fastforward to 2007. CDfreaks article was about digital playground, in 2006. In 2007, a digital playground producer said they'd go for HD-DVD for future releases.
http://arstechnica.com/n...post/20070112-8602.html
And in fact, the third article you link to even states "HD-DVD has already won over the U.S. adult film industry thanks to its lower costs and ease of use."
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The only US porno studio making BD porn is Vivid......and they are only doing it as a tester to see how it works out.
The rest all went HD DVD exclusive a while back.
Stop lying Steve.
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Talk about scripted responses... twice in one thread?
Actually, you couldn't be more desperate. Blu-ray is not leading the adult "war", and that is a rather well-known fact.
...and I would've thought that you of all people would know the correct spelling of "Blu-ray".
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I am no fanboy of either format. I want to buy one, but I havent made the move yet.
It seems at this point with this story that Blu-Ray is going to become another Betamax.
A Company like Paramount that makes a ton of movies, already tooled up for Blu-ray made a serious switch. No company would just retool and switch if they didnt do some serious investigating.
HD-DVD just got someone to turn to their side.. Guess what guys... Its only going to continue.. . Movie companies are very jittery people. Once one jumps ship more will follow.
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Ladylust,
If you are smart, get a combo player and don't worry. That's my next purchase just so I can clean up my equipment rack.
Iv'e bought it all, PS3. 360 add-on, XA1, XA2, and the A2. I'd trade it all for a nice combo player. Unfortunately I'll have to buy one.
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Yea sure.. combo player.. I want to spend $1000.00 on something i can buy for $50.00 in 3 years. I made a mistake buying my first standard DVD player for $600.00 when it first came out. When a combo player comes out thats $299.00 Id consider it.
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True.
I also paid $750 for my first DVD player, it was a Toshiba SD-3006, I still have it. It wont play DVD-R's though.
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desperate move by deperate Toshiba and its HD-DVD camp....being outsold 2-1 in the US media wise and as far as i know its worse everywhere else...Blu-Ray is getting the extended LotR movies while HDDVD only gets theatrical releases....and you KNOW George Lucas will only settle for the highest quality audio when he decides to release Star Wars on a HD format so he will choose Blu-Ray....this deal also does not cover anything DIRECTED by Spielberg....Blu-Ray still has Spider Man 3 and Pirates 3 coming out....and while they were so so movies they are big money franchises....even Universal themselves described HD-DVD as "fragile"....again....desperate move by a failing format...buying studios....shame...it doesn't hurt Blu-Ray owners...it hurts consumers in general for toshiba to keep this nearly dead horse alive....
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"desperate move by deperate Toshiba and its HD-DVD camp"
- You Blu-ray fans are hilarious.
This has been a genuinely amusing bit of reaction to the news.
More. More!
It seems that the fact that the market is tiny and desperately immature just doesn't permeate the minds of the Blu-ray fanclub.
The numbers right now (either way) are far too tiny to be making such statements.
Blu-ray got the strategy completely wrong.
They fixated on HD DVD as the competition when in fact it's regular DVD.
Now Blu-ray is stuck with a situation where Blu-ray = PS3 - as in 'expensive PS3'.
They aren't selling another 3.7 million of them any time soon.
Meanwhile HD DVD drops in price and sales continue to rise.
Most importantly HD DVD players shift movies unlike the PS3s out there.
That's why Paramount (having run with both formats for a year now) are saying that current 60:35 (or 60:40 depending on who you read) 'performance' is irrelevant and actually not a good thing for the Blu-ray side to try crowing about.
Given the number of players they're supposed to have the Blu-ray sales numbers are actually pretty pathetic.
No wonder paramount went back to being HD DVD exclusive......the question now is how long until Warner Bros join them?
HD DVD now provides the greatest amount of available content, the greatest amount of exclusive content and a range of players at various price-points.
HD DVD is going to win the a/v market.
PS3 will have Blu-ray just as PSP has UMD.
Big deal.
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Did you see Pirates 3, i stinks. Check the reviews it stinks.
Won't it be funny when the only exclusive studio for the blo-ray is $ony. Most of their movies s*ck anyway so who cares.
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I liked Pirates 3 and I'll buy the trilogy when it comes out, even if it's BD.
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Looks like the Sony fanboys are kicking into damage control mode. Nice load of FUD. I will just kick back and relax while not just Blo-Ray goes under, but the whole $ony company. Considering their TV sales are dropping like a rock, the losses on the POS3 are well over $2 billion, they keep on having to recall more batteries on top of an already massive amount, they already had the UMD format fail, and now Blo-Ray is going under. It is not a bright future for $ony.
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"and you KNOW George Lucas will only settle for the highest quality audio when he decides to release Star Wars on a HD format"
Well, I would certainly hope that someone with George Lucas' resources would have enough common sense to do a little research on just how many Blu-ray players that are going to be used to view his movies are actually PS3's... my guess is a vast majority, since they outnumber dedicated BD players by a large margin.
But wait, here it comes. Sadly, the PS3 will not output Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA bitstreams un-decoded to an HDMI 1.3 receiver... nor will it handle DTS-HD MA at all. It will decode Dolby TrueHD internally and output it as LPCM via HDMI though (big whoop).
That's the problem with having all these optional codecs on the Blu-ray side. The mistakes keep piling up... the PS3 isn't quite the end-all be-all BD player they hoped everyone would believe.
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I liked 1 and 2 but not 3 at all. Now the Spiderman 3 set looks very good. It was sad to see the Die HArd set going blu only too.
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Wow, like who cares? I have yet to see a movie worth the plastic it is recorded on.
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What about Yentl?
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I wonder how long it'll be until Warner Bros follow them (frankly I'm surprised they didn;t jump first).
So much for all those comments about Blu-ray attachment rates not being important.
Paramount had a good year producing and evaluating both formats and decided to go back to being HD DVD exclusive.
That says a lot.
Dumb comments about bribes and all are just that, pretty dumb (like the Blu-ray side never resorted to paying for 'support' either, huh?).
Interesting as this leaves HD DVD with the greater amount of available content right now, the greater amount of exclusive content right now and the greatest potential content (including exclusive content).
So, HD DVD for the best capacity (51gb), HD DVD for the greatest amount of content, HD DVD for the greatest amount of exclusive content and HD DVD for the best image and sound.
.....and HD DVD for the best a/v model range.
Blu-ray has only itself to blame, they got 2 things very wrong
(1) the relied almost entirely on a kids game console - cos right now Blu-ray = PS3 and
(2) the pi*sed off the early adopting consumer with their BD+ cr@p.
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Hey Steve,
I've asked you three times to point out how my attach rate numbers were "flawed, very flawed" but you havent shown me why the easy to figure out 13.5 to 1 attach rate over BD is wrong.
Please elaborate before posting more imaginary broken links.
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I'm not sure what "flawed numbers" you are referring to with Steve, but I don't think attach rate plays as big of a role as you think it does.
Normally, yes I would agree that "13.5 to 1" (using your numbers) is a BIG deal. But in this case you can't because the primary use of the #1 BRD player is not a stand-alone player. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to calculate the attach rate of people who bought the system as an inexpensive stand-alone blu-ray player, or ONLY for gaming. For this same reason, you also can't gloat over the advantage of sales of “stand-alone players”.
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Attach rates are everything, according to the numbers, each BD/PS3 owner has bought .55 movies.
Sony was banking on the PS3 to win this format war. If every PS3 owner bought one lousy movie, they would be winning 7 to 1 in movie sales.
We all know that HD-DVD owners have about 7.5 movies average in thier collections based on the number of players and movies sold.
I'm sure the dedicated BD player owners are driving the sales but there is no way to figure out who is buying movies.
The PS3 has failed as a gaming system and as a BD player. The losses per console are staggering and they just lowered the price by $100 which you can add-on to the loss per console nightmare.
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"people who bought the system as an inexpensive stand-alone blu-ray player, or ONLY for gaming"
Either way you look at it, it seems that those who purchased a PS3 for either role have gotten the shaft due to a rather low quantity of both.
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Attach rates by themselves are meaningless.
HD DVD could have an attach rate of 100, but if they have old sold 20 players, then it's meaningless.
The situation, is that Blu-Ray has sold more players, and more movies, but because the PS3 is also a game system, the attach rate is naturally lower than a dedicate player.
The attach rate BS, is spread my HD DVD camp, with no other positive stats to shout about. A bit like the hardware sales (where they excluded 5 million PS3's to make their 200,000 players look impressive).
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Attach rate is meaningless I see. I wonder if that is why so many exclusives to the PS3 are no longer exclusives. The atach rate of the PS3 is horrible when compared to the other formats.
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"Attach rates by themselves are meaningless."
- Go tell it to Paramount.
"The attach rate BS, is spread my HD DVD camp, with no other positive stats to shout about. A bit like the hardware sales (where they excluded 5 million PS3's to make their 200,000 players look impressive)."
- Actually everyone can see that when you're trying to make a big deal out of 'leading your competing format by only 65:35 (or 60:40 depending on source) when you're supposed to have close on 4 million players old (or is it 6 million 'shipped'? LMAO) to the other sides 400,000 is actually not very impressive at all.
The PS3 isn't a stand-alone player but so what?
The fact still stands that even if you do count it as a player and lump in all the XBox 360 HD DVD add-ons it's still almost 4 million verses under 400,000 and the bigger side can't better 60:35/60:40.
It's just a matter of time now as HD DVD player numbers start to rise.
.....and they aren't going to be selling another 3.7 millon PS3s anytime soon.
Blu-ray just lost.
Welcome to your dying PS3 proprietary format.
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" I wonder if that is why so many exclusives to the PS3 are no longer exclusives."
- If you were prepared to buy from abroad and capitalise on HD DVD being region free everytime that was already the case before this move by Paramount.
Now HD DVD gains further and has the greatest amount of available content, the greatest amount of exclusive content and the support of the biggest studios (2 of the biggest exclusively).
I wonder what all those who claimed content is everything in this have to say now, huh? :D
"The atach rate of the PS3 is horrible when compared to the other formats."
- This is very true......and everyone can see it.
It's only a matter of time now until the low cost HD DVD players arrive to take the a/v market.
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yeah but the attach rate was 3 to 1 before the HD-DVD price drop. It may be 1-1 by the end of the year. I am sure the $200 HD-DVD player for walmart has alot to do with it as well.
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The first HD format to get Howard the Duck is the winner.
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Dude, Howard the Duck. I'm actually laughing out loud. That movie was frickin awesome. How can you beat a movie with a 3ft duck from outer space walking around picking up chicks. Especially since the principal from Ferris Beuller is also in the flick. I haven't seen that in years...I don't think BlockBuster will have it on the shelf though.
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Breaking news..
FTC to investivate Microsoft/Paramount HD DVD Deal.
http://www.forbes.com/ho...ation_0820sentinel.html
Looks like Microsoft may have made a dodgy move here.
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Hey Steve,
Your link doesnt work, but i managed to find this on Forbes.com
http://www.forbes.com/fe...07/08/20/ap4037628.html
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FUD!!!!!! ahaha
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SH*IT
here comes the tsunami!
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Looks like HD DVD couldn't win the war on technical merit, so have opted to try and buy the war.
$150Million backhander to Paramount won't change that fact HD DVD is dying. Even Universal admit HD DVD is fragile.
http://www.hollywoodinhi.../blog_detail.php?id=107
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Lol...Yes because I am sure the studios supporting Blo-Ray did it out of the goodness of their hearts, and not because they paid them. Wake up Steve! There is more money in supporting both formats. You don't get exclusives without paying up!!!
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Yes, isnt it great when you have the most powerful comany in the world backing your format?
You can buy off movie companies just like Sony did.
Admit it, BD is doomed.
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Unlike Sony who have to own their own movie studios to get support for their format.
I also LOVE how you link to a Blu-Ray biased BLOG to back up your "facts". lmao
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If they have to bribe their way to stay alive, that can't be healthy for the format...
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You keep ignoring people when they point out to you that all companies do this, especially Sony. You think they didn't "bribe" Blockbuster and Target? Ha!
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You're right. Sony must be hurting pretty bad right now from all the bribes they have been handing out for a while now. If you think they are not bribing their exclusive studios you need to get a reality check.
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I also love how he seems to forget that the only "technical merits" Blu-ray has over HD DVD is media capacity, which hasn't been shown to be even remotely necessary. All other "technical merits" are either a draw, or lean in HD DVD's favor.
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I saw that some of the stuff that Java is going to do is count the amount of monsters on a screen to unlock stuff. Yes a great use of space. Who really cares about crap like that give me a good movie.
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Your right Sony never does this.
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Dont forget Latz!, he get his info from "around teh internets" as one of his links was quoted saying.
I'd listen to the guy who wrote that article, he obviously went to high school for seven years, he's no dummy.
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I find it terribly difficult to believe that a large movie studio needs a small sum of cash to make them move HDDVD only... comon.
Your concerned about 'bribes'?? God where have you been the past so many years in the age of business!
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Better Off Dead... that brings back memories of my teenage years. Thanks bud. :)
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Actually, I must correct myself... I guess it is necessary for MPEG-2 and uncompressed PCM. My bad.
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Shut up, everyone knows the most accurate source of news is biased blogs!! Hahahahaha. Steve Austin and the other Sony zealots just can't handle the truth, so they're going keep trying to deflect their anger to Microsoft. Sony failed again? No way! Let's go hate on Microsoft. Booo!!
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Shut up! When Sony does it, it's a "contribution" or "incentive", not a bribe. It's only a bribe when others do it. Sony can do no wrong, haven't you learned that yet?
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...but I thought Sony went on record saying they do not pay to get exclusives?! hahahaha
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OMG! Sony said so! Well then it MUST be true!!! lol After all they never lie!!! /sarcasm
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I forgot. :D
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Hey BetaNews moderators, if you really want to see someone go nuts, delete all of Steve Austin's posts.
Glad to see you guys are paying attention. BTW, what do I have to to become a moderator here?
Hey Steve / Dave,
I just read one of your posts over at the "official" BD forum where you nearly wet your pants when some diluted BD fanboy made up a story about a guy who was "wandering" around Nintendo's facility and stumbled upon a room full of engineers huddled around a Wii that was playing a BD movie.
That's right, a BD enabled Wii. HD-DVD is doomed. Wait a minute, the Wii only outputs 480i.
The fact that you actually believed this nonsense shows your inability to function in the same plane of reality as the rest of us.
It wasnt until someone pointed out that the Wii only does 480i that you posted a new comment saying that Nintendo will probably release a second generation Wii with HD and BD support.
Should I collect all of your nonsense and post it here for people to crack up at?
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Actually the Wii does do 480p. I have one with component. Not that it makes a difference though.
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Not me, I'm perfect in every way.
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For the people that were saying Transformers will not be HD DVD Exclusive, you're wrong:
http://www.viacom.com/NE...wsText.aspx?RID=1042073
I just noticed that a lot of posts seem to have disappeared; what's going on?
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Go into site preferences (link at top of page, right side) and set it to view negatively scored comments.
The mods have had a heyday in this thread.
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This is even better. Fox just announced 29 new titles for Blu_Ray, what a coincidence.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=413#comments
Check out the BD shills sucking each other off. Most of those movies are old, but they need some moral support over there.
They sound like little girls.
Broke bas****s, all of them. All with PS3's as thier "high end" movie player.
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About the only good movies that I noticed on that list (on the merits of HD-worthy) were the ones that were "also announced". Digitally remastered != HD. Those are some pretty old movies... but yeah, whatever makes them happy.
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Not looking good for $ony right now. Lets see where do I start. Over $2 billion in losses on the POS3, TV sales dropping like a rock, massive battery recalls, and now it is looking Blue for Blu-Ray. This company is not going to go on long like this.
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I was about to throw in the towel and get a PS3 since Blu-Ray appeared to have pretty much won. But now I think I'll hold off. My HD-DVD player may have a future after all.
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To win this battle it will take one industries decision that will make the final difference:
PORN!
Weather the Adult Industry decides on HD or BR DVD, that will be your winner.
Sony was quoted saying they would never allow their BR Media / process to be used for the Adult Industry, but as recent as 2 weeks ago, they seems to have a change of heart.
Back in the early 80's Sony said the same thing to them, but it was in reference to BETAMAX, so PORN choose VHS and look how that went.
Trust me, when "Debbie Does Dallas 35" hits in some form on HD, THAT WILL BE YOUR WINNER!
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Not sure if you are being serious, but you do know that porn is irrelevant. It was important back then because (a) those were the first devices ever to allow consumers to view recorded content and (b) there was no internet with access to practically unlimited amounts for free. Besides that, the adult industry supports both formats. It doesn't matter.
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That's a pretty popular (if mistaken myth):
Another amusing (and false) theory is that Sony refused to allow pornographic material on their system. A quick perusal of the Betamax library reveals that adult entertainment was readily available. For example, Playboy Industries released their videos in a dual format, both Betamax and VHS, for most of the 1970s and 80s (and can be confirmed with a quick search through Ebay's adult section, or other used video markets). Second, the adult industry is too small to have any lasting impact on standards selection. According to Forbes.com, adult video income is approximately $1 billion. "The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion). When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry — while a subject of fascination — is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax)
I'm am thinking though that Sony is about to screw this one up too and lose the format war to HD DVD.
If there are more studios putting their movies out in HD DVD format, why buy a blu-ray device for the four or five movies you want to watch? Especially if you can end up getting an HD DVD player for less?
Man - those PS3s are going to join the Betamax players. :( - of course I guess all game machines eventually end up in the bone yard - Atari anyone?
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You do realize that your 14 Billion estimate was in a report from Forbes that was based on 2001 estimates (http://arstechnica.com/n...post/20070112-8602.html).
For an industry that gets no TV / Big Screen time, and all the movies go straight to DVD for mat more or less, that is 14 Billion (2001) that I will take any day.
The Adult Indistry is "Embracing HD-DVD" right now for two reasons:
1. Sony is Blocing them from using BR-DVD Production facilities.
2. There is a higher cost to produce BR-DVD's.
(Same article as above: http://arstechnica.com/n...post/20070112-8602.html)
Playboys is a respected Periodical (Monthly Magazine) then your standard issue of "Juggs". Playboy is not looked at as "PORN" like most of what you see on the Web. Now, you may be laughing, but seriously.
All the major studios have made their choices and there is still no winner. When Porn makes their choice, then the tables will be decided.
PS. You do realize how much 14 Billion is right (That is profit, after they pay the bills!)
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I am willing to put $$$ on it!
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Actually, you couldn't be any more wrong. Blu-Ray is leading the adult HD war..
http://www.cdfreaks.com/...lu-ray-Disc-format.html
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6142519.html
http://www.tvpredictions.com/hirsch111006.htm
http://www.computerworld...amp;intsrc=news_ts_head
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This pretty much says it all today:
http://img517.imageshack...mg517/5162/bdhuhiv1.png
And just to add insult to injury:
http://img409.imageshack...09/1838/image038bf9.jpg
Steve's system collects dust.
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It is likely in the closet now lol! Now that it is not good for movies or games lmao!!!
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Garage sale.
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Imagine how much I laughed.
Nor only does HD DVD have the largest available movie content and the largest exclusive content but now it has the best films too.
(and bear in mind Fox are effectively a BD supporter in name only, there's been precious little from them for an age now)
That's what you get when you place all your eggs in a stupid kiddies game console.
The PS3 has failed BD and failed it badly.
This is only the start.
Funny as f*ck.
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Agreed! I'll go on to say that I think MinuteMaid was right about one thing... perhaps Sony will release a cheaper "basic" version of the PS3 in time for the holiday season... one without a Blu-ray drive.
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Don't worry guys, this won't make any difference!!! Sony are a company made of Teflon. They're always good, they never use nasty business tactics or anything. All hail Sony!
Okay, now I'm done amusing myself.
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This won't even the stakes, this will just means that Paramount gets left behind in teh HD war, that will still inevitably carry with Blu-Ray dominance.
They will milk the $150 million backhander, and then resume releasing Blu-Ray movies, once the mony runs out.
It's easy to see Microsoft are behind this, the ,masters of bandhander bribes.
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...said Steve Austin as he cried on his keyboard. Taste those sour grapes.
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BWAAAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve has arrived with his fear, uncertainty, and doubt about BD.
BTW, please explain how my math was flawed so we can all see how smart you are.
You all know I'm going to milk this new development from now until the rapture.
Sorry BD shill, you lose. HD-DVD with it's 13.5 to 1 attach rate wins.
More news will come at CEDIA regarding HD-DVD BTW.
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FUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUDFUD
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I guess he wont be watching Transformers or Shrek 3 on BD. Oh, and a lot of other titles.
LMAO!
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You sound of desperation Steve.
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ROFL!!! Look Steve trying to make himself feel better.
This is quite a big movie for a so called "dead format."
"Executives there may also have been swayed by recent announcements made by Chinese manufacturers to produce even lower-price players, with an apparent edge given to HD DVD; as well as Wal-Mart’s decision to exclusively carry low-end HD DVD players in the near future."
Hey Steve didn't you just say a little while back that this would never happen. Mighty red faced right now aren't we. Also this will likely be the final stake in Blo-Ray. You can try to convince yourself otherwise, but if you look at the sales of Vizio TVs that Wal-Mart is now stocking you should get a nice smack of reality.
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Transformers was directed by spielberg, I believe. This deal does not affect his movies.
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No spielberg are excluded from this.. Read the press release.
This is a short term setback for Blu-Ray. Paramount will change their mind again, when Blu-Ray is 4:1
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Yeah, because so far your predictions have all panned out so well. You go on telling yourself that though, it's just a short term setback, it's just a short term setback...
By the way, Transformers was not directed by Spielberg, he was the producer. Transformers will be an HD DVD exclusive.
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It's so obvious you and your little cronies over at the BD forum don't have combo players or players for both formats.
You are all pissed becuse your investment in HD movie technology was premature and poor. Meanwhile, I can buy any movie on either format and don't have to worry about exclusives.
You poor pathetic turds. Your buddies are going nuts crying on each others shoulders over there.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=412
I've never seen such anger, they are organizing Blu_Ray buy days and are posting links to Paramount investor relations email so they can complain.
What a bunch of tossers.
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You go Latz!
Steve, here are your instructions:
Open mouth, insert foot. You human colostomy bag.
LMAO!!!!!!!
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I'm hurt Steve. I didn't get a response to my post. Oh wait, no I'm not! I'm just rubbing it in. =p
Hate to break it to you, but with this news and Wal-Mart putting cheap HD-DVD players in the stores, soon Blo-Ray will soon be a thing of the past.
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Michael Bay. Spielberg was an exec. producer.
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This just made my day.
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let me start out by saying I own both ps3 for blu ray and 2 xbox 360 with hd dvd add on for hd. I much prefer hd dvd. I am so glad to hear that paramount and dreamworks are going exclusive especially after disney has stated they are going only blu ray. Blu ray is a nice format, but so was beta max. Sony either needs to concede defeat and help make hd dvd better or make blu ray priced where the everyday consumer can afford it. Until they get under the $300 mark there is no hope for them.
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I got to agree with GAZZIE4. Blu-ray though I don't think is ready to announce defeat. Just as the HD-DVD camp wasn't ready after various announcements against them.
Also, at this point I don't think the cost of players will permit such a price drop, but something has to be done by the BRD camp to counter this news. Maybe a price drop for the movies themselves (but again cost issues)?
It is a very interesting move after a week of 2:1 reports in favor of Blu-Ray movie sales, and spikes in sales of their #1 player.
I don't know... I am pretty nervous about it. This just got REALY interesting though.
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The whole uncompressed audio stuff always makes me laugh. While Blu-ray is technically a very good format (making 50GB discs reliable was quite an accomplishment), filling up the excess space with PCM audio to fool the consumer is a complete joke and a big scam.
Dolby TrueHD is the high-definition standard and I'd bet there are only a few people in the world that can tell the difference between it and uncompressed audio on any home theater setup. But because HD DVD can't or won't do it, it's being used as a marketing ploy.
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You are wrong, you can hear the difference. A good system will make the difference very evident.
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I accidentally said lossless when I meant uncompressed.
Dolby TrueHD is lossless, it's just compressed. There is no audio quality lost in the compression, according to Dolby. And they should know.
http://www.dolby.com/con.../technology/trueHD.html
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I may have misunderstood your comment of there being no difference in standard DTS to DTS HD also. There is a difference to the ears.
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FUD FUD FUD
hehe
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Check this out:
The comments at the "official" BD forum are hilarious. You can actually pinpoint the moment when thier hearts get ripped out.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=412
I hate to sound mean but these BD zealots get exactly what they deserve with thier one sided brainwashed way of thinking.
This was my personal favorite "DO NOT WORRY PEOPLE, THIS IS JUST A TEMPORAY DEAL, BECAUSE OF DISNEY'S STATEMENT LAST WEEK.
THIS JUST SHOWES YOU HOW MUCH TROUBLE HD DVD IS IN. THE MADE A "AGREMENT" WITH PARAMOUNT THAT WILL ONLY SCREW THEM $$$ IN THE END... "
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Dude...
That is some *seriously* funny sh1t there.
I really couldn't care less what format wins as I don't plan on entering the market until this is well done and over with, but seeing this unfold on that forum is amusing as hell.
A lot of folks, on both sides, need serious psychological counseling.
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I'm here for one reason and one reason only. To cause trouble.
Glad I could entertain. You should keep going back, the comments are piling up.
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I'm sure they are. One or two pages is funny. The rest is just plain sad.
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same here i really don't want to spend that much cash just to end up with a paper weight in a year. don't feel sorry anyone who bought a ps3 since they obviously got more money than brains anyhow
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I don't know if I would call it sad or funny. You would think someone killed their favorite cat and how ever will they go on. I think the dual disks is what intrigued them, yes if you buy a hd disk maybe you only want the one side and feel you shouldn't have to pay the extra bucks to get the dual disk. They are looking at the average consumer who is thinking of the next format but doesn't want to completely commit yet. With the dual disks you can play them at home and then take them to any friends house or in the car or on a portable dvd player while your on the bus. I personally think the dual format is going to help hd-dvd greatly because its a win win situation.
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hehe gotta admit thats amusing.
You can hear the 'waaa waaa' all the way over here.
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I think you just made Steve cry.
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I didn't think it would be that good, but I fell out of my chair laughing.
"Boycott Paramount!"
"wow, thats some extreme sh!t ..."
"Did someone just hack the Blu-ray.com website? I don't think this is true at all. WTF is going on here?" [He had a Blu-Ray avatar]
"ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? This f**king blows!"
I love it.
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The sooner this ends, and a clear winner emerges, the better off we'll all be. While I was pulling for HD-DVD, I've thought Blu-Ray had the edge lately. Until today.
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Yea, I'm sure having Blades of Glory in lossless audio is going to make a HUGE difference in how cool that movie is...
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Was that sarcasm?
That's in the other room. :p
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Is this mean that Blockbuster will soon drop Blu-Ray and switch to HD?
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They won't go exclusive but they pretty much have to go neutral now, they'd be idiots if they didn't. Actually, doesn't Viacom own Blockbuster? I think they are affiliated some way if I remember correctly. My prediction is to expect an announcement very soon.
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Up until 2004. Viacom split Blockbuster off because of how much money it was loosing.
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Yeah interesting, imagen blockbuster without Shrek 3 and Transformers....
Guess they still have standard DVD :)
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I checked my calendar to make sure it wasnt April 1st.
If you think our resident cheerleader is bummed, you should head over the AVS forums where all hell is breaking loose. I have to say this put a smile on my face.
I guess I'll be giving away my PS3 sooner than I thought. When Disney goes nuetral, it's officially over.
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Hangon ... let me read that again ....
HAHAHAHAHA ... Yup, still Funny !!
Burn Sony Burn ... No battery joke intended.
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Burn Sony Burn ... No battery joke intended.
that was funny
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Lol intended or not it still turned into one lmao!!!
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Why don't you be an HD fan instead if a format fanboy.
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I got to say that this news hurts. This is a BIG BIG blow to Blu-Ray! This is not just Paramount either; it's Viacom! As in MTV VH1 bla bla bla… This will keep Universal from going neutral for a while longer.
I'm sure the 150 million payout played a big role... but just as big has to be fact that HD DVD prices continue to get lower and lower.
I am not a very happy Blu-Ray supporter today.
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Does this mean I can get Beavis and Butthead in HD ? Uhhhh huhuhuh that would rule....
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I wish they would just release Daria, in ANY format. I'd settle for VHS or RCA's CED at this point.
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It's not over till the fat lady sings (but I wish she would soon, or just die :-). I'm not a fan of either format (still sitting on the fence). All this is going to do is extend the pain and suffering of the comsumer. The Paramount deal is just for 18months I understood, so they have a get out clause. Will be interesting to see how the Blu-Ray camp respond!!! Maybe we'll see cheaper BD players and discs coming out too (this would be the logical direction), which could force an early price war. Both camps have invested a lot of money in this and neither will give up without a fight, even if it means throwing more money at this. It's funny reading all these posts or should I say cat fight. Keep it up, it's entertaining. I must admit I'd buy a PS3 before a Xbox for games so maybe a couple of movies over Xmas for this too. Must admit I'm not thinking of buying Transformers or Shrek 3.
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Just gone onto Amazon.co.uk and Blades of Glory is available on Blu-Ray (Pre-Order). On Amazon.com you can sign-up to be notified when it becomes available. So time to pre-order and request availabilty :-).
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