Maybe now micro$oft will move its behind...
but I doubt it

I was kind of expecting Firefox to take a slice of the browser cake upon the release of version 1.0. Microsoft has done little to improve upon Internet Explorer's performance. Sure, when they see leaks, they patch it up with duct tape, but they haven't gone on the roof and put better shingles on it or painted the house in years. They need to stop making excuses and start making a browser that Windows users want.

"Firefox Takes IE Browser Share"

Why would this come as a suprise to anyone? While there is no clear alternative to IE, the fact remains that all alternatives to IE are better written and have more feature than IE. Firefox, Netscape, Opera etc, are _all_ preferable to use for one reason or another (mainly security). Even browser shells like Avant, Crazy Browser, Maxthon etc are preferable to IE because they have more options and are generally faster. IE has not evolved and it only has the market share it has _because_ it comes with Windows. Wake up folks!!

"While there is no clear alternative to IE, the fact remains that all alternatives to IE are better written and have more feature than IE"

Uh, and how exactly do you quantify this? Just because it's not Microsoft, it must be better written? The problems with IE are typically not because it is poorly written, but for a couple other reasons. One, ~90% of the world uses IE and thus the vulnerabilities are exposed more quickly and get more attention. Secondly, typical users don't know how to use their security settings.

IE is a great browser and I'm sure after 10 years of development it is more thorough than anything else out there. I use Firefox because of the extensions available and it renders pretty well.

"IE is a great browser and I'm sure after 10 years of development it is more thorough than anything else out there."

That's what one *might* think; unfortunately, it's just not true.

Yes, it has been "in development" for over ten years, but they have done next to nothing (except security updates--and the popup blocker) for at least the last three, arguably longer.

Mozilla has been in development for "only" about six years, which is comparable to the "real" time spent on IE. (Not that time is proportional to quality; that's not always the case, either.) The simple fact is that they have better support for Web standards and have more features that people--at least if they would know they are available and how useful they can be--want.

Additionally, it's safer--and I don't buy into the "well, it wouldn't if it had a bigger marketshare" alibi. The Apache Web server is more popular that MS IIS, but look at which has more security problems (and who made it--sense any connection yet?). Also it's not just hackers who search for them for "fun"; people like Secunia are doing it, and they sure don't skip over Firefox. I believe Firefox is better designed to *prevent* these problems from happening, but even if some are discovered (like with the 0.9 series), they are very quick to fix them, and automatic updates can even patch it automatically, much like Windows' similar feature (and Mozilla won't wait until the first Tuesday or whatever Microsoft's schedule entails).

So, just because it's been around longer doesn't mean it's better--especially if it's mostly stagnated for the least several years.

I quantify this with the reasons I've given above. But let me say it again - IE has not evolved. There have been no major developments in IE since 1999. There are many other browsers that are more secure &/or offer more features. IE has been tinkered with (popup blocker) but has not been developed.

i've read some interesting comments from various MS reps & independant, unbiased persons that play devil's advocate to IE, and they have some valid points. i'll try to summarize them here:

one of the biggest overlooked reasons that IE may seem underdeveloped, or lacking in innovation at times, is the dependance upon IE by so many other apps. many popular & widely used MS & 3rd party/custom built software, (as well as the vast majority of website design in general, for that matter), use IE &/or it's standards. this generates a resposibility & need for MS to remain consistant with IE, as it sets and maintains a standard not only for web browsing, but for a multitude of other apps that use IE, and web developers that still accept it as the looking glass thru which their sites will be seen by the vast majority of their patrons. MS doesn't have the luxury of completely redesigning IE without betraying the community of users & developers that have built their products around IE.

in conclusion: firefox is free, neat, & young enough to have avoided the scrutiny that has earned IE it's enemies, in the form of exploit hunters & critics. use it if you prefer, (i use a little of both). but given time, like any other popular platform, (provided it endures mind you), people will see that the illusion of security in this and many other cases is merely a matter of having not been a hot target... yet. and as for tabs and other neat features in IE (without Maxthon or similar) just be patient. MS, for better or worse, has to drag 90% of the rest of the world along with it, if it's to remain compatible and faithful to those that have made it successful. mozilla simply doesn't have that burden.

"one of the biggest overlooked reasons that IE may seem underdeveloped, or lacking in innovation at times, is the dependance upon IE by so many other apps."

I understand your point, but unfortunately that's not strictly true. If Microgarden http://www.microgarden.com/webtools/index.htm can develop some sort of attempt at tabs for IE without interfering with the functionality of either Windows or other software, then I'm damn sure that Microsoft can do it - and probably better. It's just pure laziness that's all.

"many popular & widely used MS & 3rd party/custom built software, (as well as the vast majority of website design in general, for that matter), use IE &/or it's standards."

That's what the W3C (http://www.w3.org/) is for - and MS don't even follow them.

Firefox is good, but I like Opera better. I like Opera because of all of the features that you want are on it. You do not have to add each feature that you want like you do on Firefox. I wish Opera would get more recognition.

Maxthon is my favorite!

While i do welcome the "succes" Firefox had untill now i keep returning to Opera at the end. Firefox just has way to many "strange" behaviours that need to be fixed.

Competition in the browser market is welcome, and only a real competitor (not just a 10% slice) in the market will nudge Microsoft into action. While the world waits for Longhorn's IE in 2006, others keep on innovating. My favorite browser is still the IE-based NetCaptor.

I wish Opera took over more market share :(. Maybe they should make the damn program free already. In my opinion, light-years ahead of Firefox.

agreed.. ive been using opera for years.. i have nothing against firefox but i find opera to be a better choice for me.

Opera is way ahead of any of the browsers, the previews show constant upgrading and amazing new additions that no other browser has, i wish it would do more to grabe a share, only prob is its not free :(
I've tried Firefox and it just doesn't compare with functions to Opera, even with the plugins, opera has most of those features anyway.

Nothing against Opera, but I prefer almost anything to it. It's quick, and it renders things well, but it's cluttered - the kitchen sink and all the cupboards left open, and a counter full of dirty dishes.

I have yet to find anything it can do that Firefox can't, but with a cleaner interface. If Opera seriously wants marketshare, they need to really focus on cleaning up the interface and simplifying the options - frankly, Opera is a huge mess, only slightly less unsightly than Maxthon.

I have both Opera and Firefox installed, and use both for browsing (although I use Opera more for emailing)
But I must say, that I prefer Firefox over Opera, because of it's sleekness, if I don't want a feature, I don't install the extension. :)

Opera is far from easy to use (and is quite daunting for first-time users and switchers from IE)

But i just adore the M2 mail program, because of the way it handles email as a databaseprogram would do. :)

I'm glad Firefox has pounded the market with greatness.....

And with custom build releases by developers such as MOOX, the browsers speed, stability and security is too overwhelming to not use daily.

... then IE did not beat Netscape with monopolistic tactics.

Keep it up FF! :P

IE keep it's monopoly up?? Yeah, about that: Can Mozilla Firefox developers support millions of users at the moment?

Ehhh, can Microsoft? When was the last update which was not a security fix?

Umm...August 12th to be exact...

The best thing that could possibly happen is for FireFox, Opera and Netscape (the new one in development) each take 10 to 15 percent of the market share. Then Microsoft will stop making us use such a crappy browser that IE has become. Competition is the best thing possible for all of us. I wish Apple would port the Mac OS to x86 systems. Windows would become a better platform too. Linux is still to hard for the average user, so don't give me hardtime about excluding it.

C'mon people. Microsoft makes Windows. If you really want to boycott IE, quit buying Windows, quit buying Office, and quit buying Microsoft altogether. Now, if you want a "better" browser, download mozilla, opera, netscape, or whatever the heck you want--you DO have a choice. Granted, you can never completely remove IE from someone's computer, but hey, even firefox leaves some empty registry keys behind when you remove it, as does about 98% of all other programs. IE comes with windows, as does Windows media player, calculater, solitare, and minesweeper. Are we going to sue microsoft for "preventing" people from using their 3rd party SuperCalculater? After all, Microsoft is cramming their calculater down our throats, that's so unfair!

"After all, Microsoft is cramming their calculater down our throats, that's so unfair!"

I don't think that it's unfair. After all, it is their program, and they can put as many programs of theirs as they want on there (provided it doesn't interfere with other activity [ie hog resources]). I would do the same thing if I had released something like that. Some users like using the default calculator, because it's simple and effective.

that wasn't a security fix though... SP2 was a collection of security fixes and popup blocking which only half works, which I'd honestly classify as a security fix.

Casual web browsing (not to porn sites or warez sites) with IE for an hour will add spyware to your system every time (maybe 50ish pieces per hour) - multiply that by 10 if you do either the warez or porn sites.

Do the same with Firefox, and the total is none.

Everone in my office if forbidden to even launch IE for any reason (we have Windows Update locked out andyways) - one quick ad-aware scan after a short jaunt around the internet convinces even the most devout why exactly it's not welcome.

I was being sarcastic...

You mean I don't HAVE to use the Windows Calculator. Man I wish somebody told me about that years ago. :) J/K
This is one of the first threads that one can honestly say everybody has good points. I use IE, Opera and FF and I find for best performance IE is all over Opera and FF. For security and Pop ups Opera and FF are about equal and for Spy Ware FF has performed flawlessly. I gave up on Netscape when AOL bought them and made their first release, 7 I think it was, that crashed hundreds of thousands of AOL users machines. AOL must see things in a completly different manner then most people that can actually think on their own.
It's going to be interesting to see how this all pans out. Knowing MS, they will let FF get a little more market share then try and buy either the company or the product and squelch it.
Barring any of the bells and whistles, tabs and the such, FF is a good choice as long as we have to worry about spyware. But there are still some plugins that can't be found or just don't work so the next release of FF might just push them to the fame and glory they deserve.
I give this browser an 8 out of 10 and a big pat on the back to the developers. Keep up the good work guys/gals, you are heading in the right direction that is for sure.

Actually Microsoft just updated calculator:

Microsoft Calculator Plus (Free download)
http://www.microsoft.com...c091&displaylang=en

It sounds like you have a buch a muppets for It admins, and these IE browsers are set wide open.

For me, I can browse with IE all the time, and never get spyware on my system, oh, and the popup block in SP2 does work (as well as Firefox and Google blockers), you have to turn the heat on it though, as it's set to stop only scripted popups by default, and not clicked popups. (you can set it to block all in the prefs).