RSSReport: No Unified Next-Gen DVD
By Ed Oswald | Published August 23, 2005, 12:02 PM
A Japanese daily reported Tuesday that any hope of a unified format for next generation DVDs is all but gone as the two sides have broken off talks. According to the Yomiuri newspaper, neither side was willing to yield and time ran out to strike a deal.
"Late August is the practical time limit (to finalize a deal)," Yoshihide Fujii, Toshiba's corporate senior vice president, told the paper. Toshiba needed to start developing the software for its HD-DVD players at that time.
Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo have all thrown their weight behind HD-DVD, while Sony, Matsushita (Panasonic), and Apple have pledged to support the Blu-ray format.
Recently, Blu-ray has seen much of the momentum, with Lions Gate Entertainment and Universal Music Group announcing their support for the format last week. These deals have helped to keep Blu-ray in the public eye, which could lead to increased sales based on name recognition when Blu-ray players finally hit the market next year.
HD-DVD, on the other hand, has been pretty much silent despite expectations the format will reach store shelves in time for the holidays.
Both sides agree that a unified format is best for the industry and would lead to faster adoption by consumers. However, at least for the time being, the promise of a unified format is all but dead. According to sources close to the negotiations, progress stalled after the initial attempts to agree on a deal faltered in May.
Toshiba president Tadashi Okamura said in May that he realizes that a format war is not what the industry wants. "We may actually have a situation where merchandise from both sides is put on store shelves. But the market would not allow that situation to last very long," he said.
Nonetheless, it now appears that a format war is what consumers will get with time running out to finalize hardware and begin manufacturing high-definition DVDs.
Hey, has anyone forgot that the same comparison was made with DVD +R and -R? In the end they just co-existed with both being available and playable together.
It's very possible the same thing happens here. It won't happen at first, but later as costs to manufacturer BluRay and HD-DVD players get cheaper, they could add both lasers (actually that may be three since I'm betting there's a red laser for DVD compatibility).
Its great to see how the VHS/BETA debate is always brought up, but the DVD +- R is never.
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|What a idiot saying 15 Gig not enough for computer users, for a few computer junks of course not enough as they sit there waiting 3 hours or so to get a DVD burned now tell me (including me)... There is no normal consumer who wants to burn 15 Gig or more... With what for what? So now and then a Backup?
HD-DVD will win simply becuase it is cheaper to produce and the consumer will adopt cheaper products much faster, same story in the past with VHS/BETAMAX I used them all but the Betamax was just to far over the top and in that time Sony was exclusive for the richer ones. Sony never learns (and by the way not exclusive at all anymore they better look at B&O)
Personally I like the BR format better it is just because I'm a computer junk like some others out here and seeing the advantage of the BR also in the mobile phone market. Commercial wise it will loose from the cheaper standard I'm absolutely sure. Let them use the BR in the pro sector like TV Production companies, storage companies etc.
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|I don't think HD-DVD has much of a chance at all. The Blu-Ray camp seem to be holding most of the cards. The format is technically better, they have more big name hardware manufacturers onboard, and also have more big-name media companies on-board. They also have the PS3 "Ace Card".
The only downside, is the re-tooling costs of production plants, but that aside, everything is going Blu-Ray..
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|You could also argue, that HD-DVD owes more similarities to BetaMax this time around. The shorter record time of Betamax was a killer for Betamax, and translates to the smaller capacity of HD-DVD (compared to Blu-Ray).
The lack of media companies on-board for Betamax, translates to the lack of holywood support for HD-DVD.
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|"What a idiot saying 15 Gig not enough for computer users"
I seem to remember someone saying that "640K ought to be enough for anybody." and "No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer."
Anyone know who that was? Bill Gates.
Don't make the same mistake. We will need it, even if the reason isn't clear now.
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|No normal consumer who wants to burn 15 Gigs?? Have you been smoking crack? I consider myself, my family and my friends "normal consumers" and we would all like to burn 200 Gigs or more per disc as soon as possible. Mark my words, HD-DVD will never EVER win this war. Consumers are much smarter than they were 20 years ago and they will adopt the superior format. Even if that format costs slightly more.
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|Am I going to have to buy 2 dvd players for my entertainment center? And for my PC?
On a different note, lets talk TV DVD Sets.
Right now, I've encountered a variety of sets.
Alias - 22 45 Minute Episodes on 6 DVDs
Battlestar Galactica - 14 45 Minute Episodes on 4 DVDs
Farscape - 24 45 Minute Episodes on 11 DVDs
If 1 season of a show will be able to theoretically fit on 1-2 Blu-Ray or HD DVDs...
Will a season of a show still cost 40-90 dollars? Star Trek Series are classic for costing 90-100 US per season, and are roughly 8 DVDs long.
Will people be psychologically able to pay that amount for 1 or 2 DVDs? I know it's kind of off topic but this has been on my mind ever since I knew next gen DVDs were coming and heard the specs.
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|Are you going to require a urine sample to validate the encryption on these disks before playing a movie?
Will Linux need a Blu-Ray Jon and a HD-DVD Jon?
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|HD has a big advantage with lower costs.
HD-DVD double layer is going to be 30 gig, 15 gig is for single layer, probably what we'd get for burners.
Blu-ray is 50 gigs at launch for dual layer but maybe 100 gig in the future.
I don't see why anyone would think 30 gig is too small. The important factor so far is that most studios are behind Blu-ray which is sad considering that Sony always tries to force their proprietary crap on everyone.
And about the players it won't matter since they'll probably go with dual red and blue lasers to play old dvds.
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|The one that will be cheaper will win, well thats what i think. If they can produce HD-DVD on the same production lines as DVD's, i assume that will have some affect to the price tag.
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|With 27 gigs and 54 gig dual layer the only thing that can sink bluray is the price.
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|Correction
Only Sony is unwilling to yield.
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|They have the better format so why should they. Tosihba's 15 gig single layer is just not enough of a jump for computer users.
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|Why is that?
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|Remember: this is the first major change in video storage tech in the past 7 to 8 years. The next format needs to be good enough to last a while.
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|Its kind of sad to see that negotiations have been put off, but just like the vcr one will prevail and be on top while the other will sink and eventually be unused. As of now however both sides got support from major companies and so far it looks as if its a tie. WE'll just have to wait and see i guess.
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|Maybe two formats can co-exist anyhow. I mean look at game consoles, there is not one standard there either and to be able to play all the games you have to buy three "players" (PS2/Xbox/GC). Maybe some movie "titles" will launch for all formats, just like with games?
I prefer Blu-ray myself but when The Lord of the Rings comes for HD-DVD there is no way I won´t buy that too.
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|I'm betting on Blu ray. Not in dollars though, of course. I'll wait this one out as long as it takes. I like capacity and I like it even at a price premium.
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|Agreed.
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|What if we had several formats of hard drives? That would just be stupid, as this is. Why can't they just do the right thing and merge. I won't buy two different players if that is what it comes to. I will stick with Toshiba, who has always been on top.
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|It'll level out in the end, HD-DVD is cheaper to produce so probably will be cheaper for consumers as well and looking at history Toshiba will win again.
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|SATA, SCSI, SCSITA, EIDE, IDE, AT, External USB, External Firefire, Flash. I've probably left off a lot of the high end stuff.
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|That isn't the same thing. Not even close.
You would have been closer in stating FAT, FAT32, NTFS, and so on.
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|Personally I hope HD-DVD does win, it's backwards compatible, meaning you can buy HD-DVDs now and play them in a standard DVD player, and then some point in the future, buy a HD-DVD player and not have to buy your collection over again.
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|@gsbrock
As HD-DVD use the same blue laser as Blue-ray they are NOT compatible with the current red laser DVD players.
You will have to buy new players in order to play any of the future formats.
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|It isn't? They are all interfaces and few are pin or speed compatible. What you listed at file systems and all are machine readable across many Operating systems and many are writeable (FAT32.)
Please elaborate your analogy next time.
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|You might be right I was thinking a little to obtuse.
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|It reminds me of beta -vs- vhs.
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|I'm not gonna argue except to say--research that a little more. HD-DVD PLAYERS will be able to play dvd's. (XBOX 360?)
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|I wasn't old enough to be conscious of that battle (I'm still in college), but I'm sure you're right. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
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|I really never did understand why beta lost, other than the crappy manufacturing.
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|I just hope a super player comes along that can play both.
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|I hope that it's a Toshiba. LOL
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|It had nothing to do with crappy manufacturing, Beta was a very good product. The two problems going against were that Beta originally had a much shorter recording time than VHS even though the picture quality was superior, and second was that the movie industry supported VHS and people could rent movies on that format. The porn industry was huge with VHS too.
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|Well, thank you for the insight. I remembered seeing a lot of broken beta players so that is why I assumed (keyword) it was the manufacturing.
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|There may have been some bad models of players out there, overall though Beta was a very good format.
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|gsBrook, please explain how a disc encoded with blue laser wavelength can be read by todays DVD's players with red lasers?
You information is incorrect, you CANNOT read HD-DVD disks on todays DVD players, it's simply not possible. It DOES however work the other way round. Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will both be able to play DVD's CD's (and the recordible counterparts).
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|Errm, he was stating that DVD players will play HD-DVD but not Blu-Ray. Which is rubbish.
Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will however play DVD/CD (not having this would doom any format instantly).
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