LMAO

Profile 1.1 complaint after an update maybe sometime perhaps next year.

Oh dear Samsung, why did you ever get mixed up with those idiots, hmmmmm?

Best to back out completely and just go HD DVD exclusive.

Practically no one is producing HD-DVD hardware other than Toshiba. Which group is dumb then ? The one backed by Microsoft which wants to use HD-DVD to force its own standards on users,developers and manufacturers for then asking insane fees when it's in a monopoly situation in a new market.. or the one that has developed a real open standard that leaves competing manufacturers really free...?

"or the one that has developed a real open standard that leaves competing manufacturers really free"

Sorry, but... huh???

Blu-Ray uses VC1 too. Along with MPEG2 which was made by Sony.

MPEG-2 was made by Sony ? Since when ? What are you talking about ? Are you kidding ?
MPEG are international standards which are not developed nor proposed by a single manufacturer, it takes year for the standard specifications to be set thru calls for proposals to the standards made by many manufacturers and developers.
VC-1 is just an hacked MPEG-4 ASP that Microsoft internally developed as WMV9 thru the years, then they wanted to make it an international standard and so they had to make the specifications public and thru some modifications they claimed to have reached the level of MPEG-4 AVC H.264, but that's far from true, unless you believe the Microsoft marketing hype machine instead of judging with your own eyes.

Some of the developers of the MPEG-2 standard include:

---->
http://www.mpegla.com/m2/

INTRODUCTION

MPEG LA's MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License provides fair, reasonable, nondiscriminatory access to essential MPEG-2 Video and Systems patents owned by many patent holders as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses.

The License includes essential patents owned by Alcatel Lucent, British Telecommunications plc, Canon, Inc., CIF Licensing, LLC, Columbia University, France Télécom (CNET)**, Fujitsu, General Instrument Corp.*, GE Technology Development, Inc., Hitachi, Ltd., KDDI Corporation (KDDI), LG Electronics Inc., Matsus***a, Mitsubishi, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT), Philips, Robert Bosch GmbH, Samsung, Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd., Scientific-Atlanta, Sharp, Sony, Thomson Licensing, Toshiba, and Victor Company of Japan, Limited (JVC). MPEG LA's goal is to provide worldwide access to as much MPEG-2 essential intellectual property as possible; new Licensors and essential patents may be added at no additional royalty during the current term.

Wide acceptance of the MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License is responsible for the worldwide utility of MPEG-2 technology. The Program's Licensees make most MPEG-2 set-top box, professional (e.g., encoders, file servers and multiplexers) consumer electronics (including DVD player and television receiver/decoder), personal computer and packaged medium products in the current world market.

"Practically no one is producing HD-DVD hardware other than Toshiba."

- Wrong.

There is a now growing list of hardware manufacturers either currently in production or on the verge of production.

This includes - as well as Toshiba - RCA, Onkyo, Venturer, Integra & Alpine as well as the coming Kenwood, Meridian, Denon, Shinco's.

Then there are the other Chinese CH-DVD manufacturers that will be making inexpensive HD DVD players for our markets because CH-DVD is identical except for a logo on the case and a firmware.

....and not forgetting the PC support, HP, Acer, Intel & Asus.

"Which group is dumb then?"

- The one with the viral marketing/fanclub that is woefully ignorant of the subject yet who continue to spout their BS for the more informed to laugh at?

"The one backed by Microsoft which wants to use HD-DVD to force its own standards on users,developers and manufacturers for then asking insane fees when it's in a monopoly situation in a new market."

- You really don't have a clue do you?

First of all HD DVD and Blu-ray mandate the same 3 codecs, so the choices there are identical to studios.

Secondly it is clear that VC-1 is the most modern & efficient with even Sony making use of it on one Blu-ray movie.

(Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall, 50gb VC-1 disc)

Thirdly with Sony as a major patent holder in MPEG2 it is quite clear that Blu-ray only has the capacity & raw bit-rate transfer speed it does to facilitate the use of MPEG2 (as has been admitted to me by a Sony employee).

.....oh and you're also quite wrong about Microsoft holding the majority of VC-1 patents, some report they have been "mugged" over the matter -

http://www.theregister.c...oft_vc-1_codec_analysis/

"or the one that has developed a real open standard that leaves competing manufacturers really free...?"

- Truly you are as ignorant of the reality as you are funny with your self-invented delusions & frankly idiotic little tales.

I have a Sanyo DRW500 DVD recorder/TVtuner. I payed $70 for the thing and I'm not even sure if it wouldn't burst into flame if I put a Blue Ray DVD in it. The point is that I'll be damned before I spend a fortune on a high end DVD player/recorder before they end that stupid format war. How much are you people willing to bet that as soon as the format is finalized they will come up with using flash sticks, player/recoder making the CD or DVD obsolete? And in about at the most 5 years from now. Must be what the 2012 fuss is all about. :P Think as to how many porn movies you could put in your pockets! A lot more than DVDs, unless you have huge pockets. :P

Mmmhmm, same here. I don't even have an HD TV, so I needn't even waste my money on any of it.

Put disc in, press play, turn up volume... Doesn't seem that either of these formats have any problem with how 99% of the world watches movies. You are trying to imagine un-solutions to problems that don't even exist yet...

So very true. The complete lack of Profile 1.1 compliant BD players to bring enhanced features that barely resemble what HDi has allowed consumers to enjoy since day one is a rather non-issue, as none of the current or announced Blu-ray titles have those features anyway.

Good call. :)

hmm.. maybe none of the current titles have those features simply because the players don't support it.

The simple FACT so many want to over look is that regardless of how many people will buy titles for the extras, many will still check them out. Some of them are quite cool.

For early adopters and those like you that don't care, it won't matter. But for the average consumer who buys the player being unaware of 1.1 or 2.0 profiles, it will be a problem. They'll get a disc, try the extras and it won't work. They'll then want to know why.

yountmj: No, you missed the point. It's non-issue because no one cares about interactivity or https downloadable/unlockable DRM features at all.
98% of people cares about the main movie and its quality at video and audio levels, which simply means that Blu-Ray has a leading advantage unless the producing studio cripples the release because it just have more available space for higher bitrates. Among these less than 10% watches making of and specials on discs anyway, since the DVDs went mass market.

I didn't miss the point. It was intended to be a humorous sarcastic response, hence the "Good call. :)" closer at the bottom of my post. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

To suggest that no one cares, or that only 98% of people cares (which one is it?) is very speculative. How that percentage was determined is of great curiosity to me.

No one may seem to care to you, but I believe otherwise. It really does not matter, because as of right now (and no guarantees for the foreseeable future), Blu-ray consumers do not have the option of additional interactive content... not even on the PS3, which many speculate and assume has all the requirements for even Profile 2.0 compliance. However, if that were indeed true, logic dictates that we surely would have seen a firmware update to add those features long before the 31 Oct 2007 deadline.

As for the available space, a 50 GB BD-ROM should have more than sufficient space for the main feature at its highest supported bitrate with uncompressed PCM (as wasteful and unnecessary as it is), extras, and interactive content. If not, then it's time to look to better alternatives for audio/video compression and get rid of this silly notion that uncompressed is the only solution for high quality audio... or simply release extras on another disc.

As it stands right now, the "best" use of the additional space has been including a complete second version of the film with a so-called PiP embedded. When (or if) Picture-in-Picture is implemented properly with Profile 1.1, that space is reclaimed to be used more efficiently.

Why do you need 50gbs then?

It's pretty simple, what's you question then ?
Thanks to 50GB you can get higher bitrates for both audio and video streams which means a quite higher quality.

Higher bit rates who really cares this has been proven to be not as important as you make it out to be. You base this crap on bigger is better like a kid would say when in reality it is a lie.

"Thanks to 50GB you can get higher bitrates for both audio and video streams which means a quite higher quality."

- ....and this is happening where then, huh?
(besides in your own head & dreams)

Blu-ray uses a BD25 disc rather than BD50 54% of the time and 40% of the time they haven't bothered with lossless audio either.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

I've yet to see anyone go over 18 - 20mbps with VC-1 (and often it is way below that).

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Another player that will ship after the deadline that is NOT 1.1 compliant.

What a POS.

All HD-DVD's are backwards compatible and will play TL discs without a firmware update.

When's that 1.1 spec supposed to ship?

SONY = September, October, Next Year

or

Soon, Only Not Yet.

Technically it said it will be once a firmware update is applied. So I wouldn't say it's 'NOT' compliant. This is Samsung, not Sony.

I suppose the major problem with this flawed strategy (as the story goes with so many of their other tactics) is that the release of the player is a clever way to get the player out in time for the holidays. There is no guarantee that the firmware update to provide Profile 1.1 compliance will be available when they say it will be.

I'm not simply referring to Samsung or Sony, but any and all members of the BDA. They follow the same gameplan... or at least they should. This could have easily been Pioneer, Panasonic, Denon, etc.

The point is, 31 October 2007 was the cutoff date for all Blu-ray players that did not meet Profile 1.1 compliance. The possibility of adding those features to this particular player or any other player is somewhat irrelevant. Not compliant is not compliant, no matter how anyone tries to justify it. Upon release from 1 November 2007 and up, all new Blu-ray players should be compliant... no exceptions. What happens when January comes and goes? February, March... and no firmware update? Don't say it couldn't happen... historically all members of the BDA, especially Sony, have shown they are quite adept at delaying promised features. This is simply opening the door to allow other Blu-ray manufacturers to follow suit, exploit a loophole, and release substandard players that do not meet the guidelines that have been put in place by their own circle of partners.

This format has seen one setback after another, and the vast majority of consumers need to be informed. Consumers have been lied to and promised features and abilities that still have no guaranteed date of appearance. Though HD DVD has not been without its minor issues in the past, it is a very reliable, mature, and finalized format that has been ready for the mainstream since initial release.

I really am not getting all of these compliant issues. Why in the world would someone do such a thing? I have mostly all Sony products in my home theaters in my living room and bedroom so I do really like Sony but IMO only a fool would spend the kind of money that people are spending on this kind of stuff without having any clue as to which format will win, if either. Nothing like spending thousands of dollars on something that might fall right on it's face only to be replaced with a whole new format or technology before either really gets off the ground. But then again I'm a 34 year old guy that works for a living and has a family so I spend my time investing into my family's future so playing video games is not on the top of my priorities either.

Sony's 1.1 spec will add .... get this .... interctive CD_ROM features to thier players.

Yaaaayyyy!!!!

2.0 spec will ad HDi like features. But, no players without an ethernet can even use the 2.0 features. They do not require players to have ethernet until god knows when.

You know, those features that the very first HD-DVD player shipped with and is completely future proof.

Sorry Dave, BD sucks.

I used to buy Sony products until they started pulling all thier propriatary crap. Starting with the memory stick. We have enough flash type drives. Anywho, My old stereo and TV where Sony, then I realized that I could get electronics just as good elsewhere without the markup for the Sony name.

FYI, I am also a 34 year, scratch that, 35 year old family guy that likes to save money but still get the same quality.

"I used to buy Sony products until they started pulling all thier propriatary crap."

LOL. I don't suppose you are typing this on a M$ OS are you?

I don't suppose you are either?

I bet Mom and Dad wouldn't let you install Linux on the family computer...

Try using an S, you seem to be confused and keep pressing 4. Christ.

As for me, I started hating Sony once my original Playstation went to s***. I traded my SNES for that thing, only to have it die. I'm still ****ing pissed about it.

What makes that so funny? You do realize for the typical consumer, there are two choices for OS.

Mac
Windows

And out of those 2, only one is mainstream in business. That's hardly proprietary.. its more the standard.

LOL. I don't suppose you are typing this on a Mac O$ are you?

If ever there was a company to associate with overpriced products, it certainly would be Apple.

The thing is, both formats can flourish as soon as overall costs come down. Which ever one looses will find a new home.

DAT for instance never really took of as a Home Audio Media, but it made a new home in PC backup. One of these will do the same. I know, DAT is even itself outdated, but it's not the point.

Technology will advance the USE of a DVD, weather it's the standard DVD Disc, BLU-Ray or HD-DVD even more then what it is now. In 5 more years they will be debating a new DVD format.

As soon as MS can put a HD-DVD as the main XBOX360 drive, then it deserves my attention.

As soon as BLU-RAY or HD-DVD Recorders become available and affordable, then it will deserve my attention.

So basically, when PORN decides what format they will use and I know Sony already said they will now allow it on BLU-RAY, then we will have a winner. How quickly Sony changes their mind, they have already thrown that thought out the window in Japan and rumor has it that the USA loves it's porn!

The whole porn thing is silly, it's not going to decide anything. This is 2007, not 1977.

In 1981 when Porn wanted a Home for Home Video, they wanted BETAMAX due to the Video Quality and length of time on the tape (3 Hours in HQ Format), Sony stood in the way and blocked that from happening, so they chose a little format called VHS. Maybe you heard if it.

It again happened in 1994 / 1995. Some little format called DVD.

True Facts!

Trust me, if the Adult Industry chooses a High Def Format, it will make an impact.

I don't think so. All the porn a man could ever need is on the internet...best thing is it is all ***free***.

Trust me, the Adult industry is a non-factor this time around. You brought up the 1994/1995 DVD thing but, you have to remember, while 1994/1995 wasn't that long ago, it was before use of the internet was mainstream, and was before adult films were downloadable online.

I think which ever format does win, porn films will still be found online and on standard def DVD's.

- Porn doesn't matter. 99% of people nowadays download porn on the 'net, either legally by buying or illegally by P2P. We are not in the VHS era anymore now...
- Blu-Ray burners have been available since the beginning and can be purchased for $400-600. Media prices keep falling and 25GB discs cost in the $6.99-$12 range.

I love how they skirt the issue of being "compliant" after Oct 31.

Release a console that has the capability, but doesn't... yet. Yeah, that makes sense.

If it can't handle Profile 1.1 software, it isn't compliant.

i found the perfect bloray mascot
http://icanhascheezburge...press.com/2007/06/3.jpg

I found the perfect HD DVD one..

http://badgerblogger.com/img/USSDoyle.jpg

I found another one for blo-ray

http://badgerblogger.com/img/USSDoyle.jpg

No, no... the photo you linked to implied Blu-ray is sinking. It already sank, they just refuse to admit it yet.

This one is more appropriate, I think:

http://www.webtek.no/titanic/Images/titanic6.jpg

Are you some kind of retard? It's the same linked image.

I suppose that's how you managed to move up to the next grade in school, by copying...

LOL, ok, I'll use this one instead

lol the ship sadly doesnt look anything like that now :(

He ment to use this one http://tinyurl.com/3c5w2j

haha it even looks BLUE

okay by me i'm buying hd-dvd for xmas anyhow. not that i support hd-dvd either i just don't want to buy anything dave supports

LOL
Oh, I bet that hurt him!

Lots of speculation in this "news" item..

BetaRumours..

Care to elaborate on that, Dave? This article not pro-Sony enough for ya?

OMG a troll! Run!

Well how many "might not" and "could be" can you spot in the article.

Answer: Far too many to call it news.

You've seriously got to be joking.

The way Sony and the BDA have handled the Blu-ray format has been a joke since its inception... endless false promises and delay after delay. The format itself is speculation.

The format should be called "Blu-rumor".

The way I see it, BetaNews is the perfect site to post news items about Blu-ray.

The format itself is in an endless cycle of 'beta' with no signs of going 'gold'.

Oh I take it you don’t read articles very often? You seem to have absolutely no idea.

Given your posts over the past few articles, I am astonished you can even read.

Hey Dave, When exactly is that 1.1 update coming for the PS3?

Please give us a date.

BetaRumours, eh?

So that's why you post so many unsubstantiated claims and baseless 'facts' here?

It all makes so much sense now.

Run for your life, he has a bazooka!

seems to me hollywood made a pretty valid point earlier, how exactly is bd going to offer hdi like features if none of the current stand alone players have web connectivity?

Sorry? I did not reply to Holly