The future is not with media based players it will be with streamed content and HD downloadable movies/content using DVR, VOD with hard drive based storage. Media based players will always have a following and a strong user base. As for the two formats of HD based media players personally I prefer HD DVD...because of Sony's DRM strategies, they make awesome products but there use of DRM at will with no regards to the user of the products is not good, just look at there history, not specifically talking about BD products but across the board with DVDs/Music CDs and the use of rootkits without user knowledge.

the future may be in hard drive based storage, with streaming and on-demand but answer me a few questions and then ill buy into your idea....

do any cable/satellite companies currently offer 1080p broadcasts??

Do any cable/satellite companies currently offer and broadcasts using either 5.1 PCM audio, or 5.1 channel audio using any of the newer high definition compression codecs??

On your current internet connection, how long would it take you to download a 25+GB file??

How many of said 25+GB files would you currently be able to store on any hard drive based storage you might currently own??

How do you plan on transporting said Hard Drive based storage if you were to say, want to watch a movie that you had already purchased at your friend's house???

The average consumer isnt going to be anywhere near as picky as a tech head with stats

that is true, but even still...HD files are not small...even compressed they are going to be multiple GB's...you let me know how fast the average person will be able to download those files, and how many of them they can store, and how they will transport these files...

not to mention that cable/satellite companies just don't currently have the bandwidth...

on-demand/digital distribution is coming, but not on a large scale for years...

I believe he, like most everyone else, has said that it is the way of the future, not the present. :)

It's a very long shot. Alot of grounds to cover. Plus, alot of consumers would like to collect and have the special fetures like behind the scenes, commentaries, etc. ISP providers has to catch up with speed, etc. and price will also be a factor on that. Next thing you know, you are paying premium service just to download hours long of HD movies when you can just pick one up and you can watch it anytime, anywhere. When that year comes, we'll see. But by then, probably the next revolution of hidef media is on a very higher level.

I happen to agree. I'm one of those who tends to enjoy collecting physical media, whether it be for movies, music, or games.

There's just something about digital downloads that seems somewhat... I don't know, less prestigious. "Hey, come on over and see my movie collection", and instead of thumbing through a few bookshelves of a couple hundred DVD cases, they're scrolling through a list on the screen. Nah... I'll keep my discs, thank you. :)

Another 82% this week goes to BLU.

Toshiba, Universal, Paramount... just stop already.

http://www.engadgethd.co...for-week-ending-january/

uh oh! HD-DVD picked up a percentage point this week! thats the death knell for blu ray! Hollywood's insider information was right....Warner will surely be going HD-DVD exclusive at CES now!....

hmm....

lol

Even with the players on clearance sale HDDVD cannot gain any ground.

But at least there is that big Warner CES announcement that should be coming any day now.

Love it....

We have seen what Sony has done for the consumer, all kinds of damage to our computers with their attempts at copy protection. Don't let them do it to for our future rights, which they no concern for.

So here's another story in this format war that was first presented wrong. I'm losing my trust of the media more and more everyday.

Interesting
http://www.spymac.com/details/?2336507

No need for that crap here.

Great. Now look what all you noobs have done. HD DVD is struggling and it looks like we will be forced to use SONY's proprietary format of Blu-s***. Might as well hand all of you money to Sony now because if the market has learned anything about Sony's proprietary formats, they are backwards, clumsy and expensive. Just look at MiniDisks or ProDuo memory. What a joke.

Is it just me or Benjamin Linus and Metfanant are the same person? They always spew the same bulls*** Sony propaganda in every thread. It's either the same guy, or it's two guys who get together and massage each other's prostate while discussing how Sony is the greatest company in the world.

Blu-Ray may be winning, but here are some facts you should be aware of:

- The only thing BD has going for it is more space (50GB on DL vs. 30 GB on DL HD-DVD)
- Blu-Ray players cost 3-4x more than HD-DVD players (the cheapest player actually being a game console at $399)
- Blu-Ray discs cost up to 4x more to manufacture (BD discs have the data layer closer to the disc surface, which makes them more vulnerable to damage and a special hard coating must be used. This hard coating is patented and a royalty must be paid for every disc that uses it.)
- Blu-Ray is STILL an incomplete spec at this very moment (no profile 2.0 players on the market)
- If and when profile 2.0 players hit the market, they will bring features that were present on HD-DVD from day one!
- Blu-Ray has an extra layer of DRM bulls***
- Blu-Ray is region protected
- Sony, manufacturer of exploding batteries and DRM rootkits are the main Blu-Ray patent holders and will be reaping billions of dollars in royalties if Blu-Ray wins this war

Sony is trying to buy a format war victory by paying studios hundreds of millions of dollars to go BD exclusive. Don't let the studios decide what we (the consumers) want. Decide with your wallet.

Are you kidding me? They have always been the same person, along with DaveBG, Steve Austin and a slough of others.

This is common knowledge here. He / "they" never deny it, he just igonores it all together hoping I will go away and stop pointing him out as a complete loser with multiple usernames.

Blu-ray discs are no longer 4x the price to manufacture. Do you REALLY think Warner would have jumped had this still been the case.

Like Hollywoods ridiculous claims that the PS3 is still losing money, it's based on VERY old data.

http://www.engadget.com/...division-turns-a-profit/

There are Profile 2.0 players on the market. Panasonic have one, along with LG.

Profile 2.0 is vastly superior to anything that HD DVD can offer. Even Profile 1.1 PIP is better than HD DVD's PIP. The Blu-ray version can do 1080p for both streams, HD DVD only does the PIP stream in SD.

only SOME Blu-ray discs are region protected, it's upto the studios to decide, the way it should be.

Actually Panasonic hold the most patents on Blu-ray technology.

Lastly, HD DVD players are only so cheap, because Toshiba are forced to sell them at a massive loss, due to dire sales..

"Blu-ray discs are no longer 4x the price to manufacture. Do you REALLY think Warner would have jumped had this still been the case."

Absolutly. They dont just think short term after all. Same result if it was 10x the price. Take a hit now, profit later

I miss ol' Mark Gillespie and Ray Dorset... wacky fun.

Not to mention Sony eats the costs in order to make sweet love to the supporting studios. Then when the time is right drop the free stuff. Kind of typical for $ony.

I've asked Hollywood to show me proof that I have EVER posted under a different name on this site MANY times, but he can't...its funny...

- Size is a big plus! it allows for higher bitrates for encoding both video AND audio...
- There are 8 BD players on Amazon.com right now that are cheaper than the PS3...and don't make me look anywhere else for more...
-the discs don't cost anywhere near as much to manufacture as they used to, i doubt its much more than 2x the cost now...
-you are correct about the spec being not finished, but regardless older players will still play the movies...
-HD-DVD did a GREAT job of looking forward with their specs, i have not argument there...but 2.0 will be released this year, and the PS3 will get its update
-HD-DVD has as much DRM as blu-ray...and if you're not doing anything illegal than DRM shouldn't bother you...
-60% of BD films are NOT region protected...region coding is in the HD-DVD specs as well, it has been a choice of the studios (what few there are) to not region code)
-the rootkit fiasco has nothing to do with BD so its a moot point, and yes, sony made exploding batteries on purpose, so they could lose money...brilliant!...

Paramount was paid by Toshiba...i don't see you complaining about that...oh i forgot...its only a problem because you backed the wrong horse

post proof that i have EVER, even once posted using a different name on this board...you can't and you know it...

Hollywood has lost his mind...he still thinks Warner will be going HD-DVD exclusive at CES....oh wait...

"Even Profile 1.1 PIP is better than HD DVD's PIP. The Blu-ray version can do 1080p for both streams, HD DVD only does the PIP stream in SD."

Why in earth would you need an stream rendered in 1080p in a frame less than half the size of the screen? And do you think somehow it gets to the television at that resolution?

Errm, because Blu-ray PIP allows you to switch the main and the PIP around...

Another feature I believe only available on Blu..

"- Size is a big plus! it allows for higher bitrates for encoding both video AND audio..."

BD only needs more space because they use an inferior (MPG4) codec that's over a decade old and needs massive amounts of space. Other than that, both formats can use VC-1 compression for video, which is EXACTLY the same, thus your argument makes no sense. Same goes for audio. Sony will have you believe that uncompressed audio is somehow necessary and better, when everyone knows this to be false. Besides, most BD moves are on a single layer 25GB disc right now. Yes, there are some movies with pointless extras like uncompressed audio, just to waste tons of space and pretend the extra space is justified.

"- There are 8 BD players on Amazon.com right now that are cheaper than the PS3"

Fire sale. Nobody wants those crappy un-upgradable profile 1.0/1.1 players when 2.0 is around the corner. I have a feeling they will be sold for next to nothing soon, when consumers figure out what Sony/BD are pulling. Show me a profile 2.0 player that's under $400. You can't.

"-the discs don't cost anywhere near as much to manufacture as they used to, i doubt its much more than 2x the cost now..."

You don't know that. You're just guessing. It's a known fact that BD discs are much harder to manufacture, with a higher failure rate. They're also more fragile due to the data layer being closer to the surface. That's why they have to use a special hard coating, which costs extra, as I have previously pointed out.

"-HD-DVD did a GREAT job of looking forward with their specs, i have not argument there...but 2.0 will be released this year, and the PS3 will get its update"

The same features, two years later, for three times the price. If that's not consumer friendly, I don't know what is!

"-HD-DVD has as much DRM as blu-ray...and if you're not doing anything illegal than DRM shouldn't bother you..."

Wrong. HD-DVD doesn't have the BD+ DRM bulls*** found in BD. To say that DRM shouldn't bother you if you're not doing anything illegal is very very naive. If DRM is such a good thing, why are all the online music services moving toward a DRM free business model? People don't want their content controlled and limited by the RIAA/MPAA and told what they can and cannot do with something they paid money for. If I want to make a backup of a movie I bought, I should be able to. I'm not saying I'm going to, but being allowed to do so falls under "fair use".

"Paramount was paid by Toshiba...i don't see you complaining about that...oh i forgot...its only a problem because you backed the wrong horse"

Nice try, but I didn't back any horse. There was no need for me to complain about Toshiba supposedly paying Paramount. You hardcore Sony zealots did a fine job of that. You idiots were harping on about it until we were bleeding from the ears. I could ask you the same thing. Why were you guys so vocal about Toshiba doing this, but when Sony does it, it's ok?

---QUOTE---
*BD only needs more space because they use an inferior (MPG4) codec that's over a decade old and needs massive amounts of space. Other than that, both formats can use VC-1 compression for video, which is EXACTLY the same, thus your argument makes no sense. Same goes for audio.*
---QUOTE---
The BD-ROM specification mandates certain codec compatibilities for both hardware decoders (players) and the movie-software (content). For video, all players are required to support MPEG-2, H.264/AVC, and SMPTE VC-1. MPEG-2 is the codec used on regular DVDs, which allows backwards compatibility. H.264/AVC was developed by MPEG and VCEG as a modern successor of MPEG-2. VC-1 is another MPEG-4 derivative codec mostly developed by Microsoft. BD-ROM titles with video must store video using one of the three mandatory codecs. Multiple codecs on a single title are allowed.

For audio, BD-ROM players are required to support Dolby Digital AC-3, DTS, and linear PCM. Players may optionally support Dolby Digital Plus, and lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. BD-ROM titles must use one of the mandatory schemes for the primary soundtrack. A secondary audiotrack, if present, may use any of the mandatory or optional codecs.

© Wikipedia

I'm pretty sure that Metfanant is a different person than Steve/Ben/Joey/Dave/Mark.

I may not agree with Met too ofter, but he does bring more to the debate than the clones.

I'd say that the easiest way to tell them apart is this: Steve/Ben/Joey/etc. tend to make the exact same spelling and grammar mistakes (the word 'quarter' is one of the more telling ones); plus they ALL get the name of Uncharted wrong.

I'm curious where you found the information that says blu can swap between the 2 picture windows.

Wow...I almost forgot about Ray. We should ask Joey how he's doing...

http://forums.highdefdig.../showthread.php?t=39975

Does it hurt that they lied to you about HD DVD being superior?

"Do you REALLY think Warner would have jumped had this still been the case."

Warner took the biggest pile of cash on the table ($500 million) and accepted that HDMs might not go too far for a while & that they might get acceptable sales with the PS3 crowd in the meantime.

Considering that I hadn't heard about that ability, thanks for the link.

For the record, the statement is that HD DVD was complete when it released.

Does it hurt to have your head wedged that far up the BDA's ass?

I could use it. PIP on my "TV" is over 32" diagonal.

Forum posts aren't credible.

Youtube videos can be edited to show anything that you want, also not credible.

We'll need a trusted news source.

Thanks.

Bravo! Well said. Don't forget as well though that the Blu-ray camp had the option of telling the early adopters that their players wouldn't be software upgradable to the later BD profiles simply by putting a sicker on the side of the box...and they chose not to do it...out of sheer greed.

I think there is a question of corporate ethics here...or lack there of to be more accurate. That is something that matters in the minds of consumers and rightfully so I think.

To me, and to millions of others, that is simply unconsionable. How can you continue to do busines with a group of companies that does that to its customers...of their own free will none the less!

Kashin: Wow! Bravo! I have to say, I am very impressed with your above post. Well spoken, well thought out, well presented. My hat is off to you.

Your post reminds me of why I became a Libertarian. Freedom, individual rights and self-determination must remain paramount principals in a free society, at all times, and above all else. If they don't, you have no busness calling yourself a free society at all. Without those principals being not just talked about, but really acted on at all levels of a society, you are free in name only.

No, that doesn't hurt. But what does hurt is when a consortium of multi-million dollar companies brings a product to market that is unfinished and non-upgradeable, and makes no effort what so ever to inform the public of this until well beyond a YEAR after they have taken in millions of dollars of hard earned money from unsuspecting consumers. That hurts. It hurts a lot.

LOL, true... but you're a mutant. Not everyone measures their displays in acres. :)

Hmm... you mean to say that you haven't done this yourself?

:-D

Even if it were 10x, only ones whos gonna care about this would be the people who buy them. They just add in the price of manufacturing for the consumers to pay up. I mean, why not? Its not like they can pick alternative format like HD-DVD ...

Yeah, but that doesn't change your resolution.

You go tell 'em Met.

"Toshiba plays tricks to fool the stupid"
"well let me add a quote Benjamin..
"Sony plays tricks to shaft the consumer big time"

more niche market news :)

wow..lol..31000 signatures out of the 6 million+ owners of high def players. That's a whopping .5%. Not to mention that most of those 31000 signatures are probably duplicated by idiots who won't just accept the fact they lost and move on.

or idiots :P that posted rips on the actual petition.

Who would want to buy anything that Sony has its hands in. Earlier this week they got rid of their higher end PS3's that do backwards compatibility. Now you can only buy 40 and 20gb PS3's and there is no backwards compatibility with PS2 games. "we have a ps3 that is backwards compatible and we'll let people buy it, but then we're going to yank it off the shelfs". They're doing the same with blu-ray "we're going to make a player and get a bunch of early users to buy it then make a new version of it that isn't backwards compatible with the old format". Very smart Sony. If Sony actually ends up winning this I won't buy a player until I know for sure my player isn't going to become a paperweight sometime in the near future. I feel sorry for the early people who bought early players...suckers.

I saw somewhere that the dropping the 80 gig was so they could introduce one with either a 120 or 160 gig drive. If only MS would do something like that.

blah blah blah..."I have no idea what I'm talking about but I sure do hate Sony" blah blah blah....

the 80GB has not been discontinued yet and it will be replaced....

early adopters know what they are getting into....guess you cant afford to be one, thats ok...

and the REAL beauty behind the PS3 is that even if you buy a 20GB....its so simple to upgrade your HDD to any size you want and keep your warranty....unlike MS that makes you buy their HDD for a bloated price....but Sony is so anti-consumer...

"but Sony is so anti-consumer..."

You said a mouthful. Everybody hates Sony, get used to it.

"early adopters know what they are getting into..."

Do you work for Sony? Only a TRUE Sony fan or employee would spout such garbage. There are 1st generation DVD players that fully support current movie releases. HD-DVD gave those "early adopters" the full deal, whereas Sony/BD *SCREWED* them big time. Trying to imply that early adopters should expect to get screwed is just ridiculous. Pretending that THREE different "profiles" are good for the consumers is just plain stupid. Everyone who isn't retarded will see right through that. No wonder everybody hates Sony. They screw their own fans every chance they get.

Save your energy kashin, this moron only does this to get a rise out of people, he gets off on it like some perverted sexual internet thing. I heard he cries while jerking off.

They love the customers so much they spied on them with root kits and endangered their lives with exploding batteries.

no i have no affiliation with Sony, but i knew what i was getting into when i made the jump into the HD Media game...you have to be an informed customer and know the risks...i went with BD but was prepared for HD-DVD to win and have to buy their product....i can't get mad at Samsung for releasing 1080p TV's that my Samsung can't handle...of ATI for making Video cards that can do more than my current card...its just something that happens...technology man...technology...nobody is getting SCREWED....HD-DVD had a more consumer friendly plan, but regardless its just the way the tech industry works...if you want to be at the cutting edge, you have got to pay for it...

So you think the every day consumer that doesn't read betanews or Cnet, or watch G4 TV is going to know when he/she buys a series 1 Blu-ray that when the series 2 come out their going to have to buy a new one? You really think the sales people at Best Buy is going to tell them this? The average person is just going to see Blu-ray and HD-DVD, then their going to check to see which one plays the movies they want to see and they're going to buy the one that suits them best. They may ask their friends, who bought one, they may ask sales people which is better and of course they're going to say Blu-ray because it costs more. So don't tell me that people who buy things are well informed because their not.

People ask me what they should buy, Blu-ray or HD-DVD and you know what I say? I tell them to wait, wait to make 100% sure that Blu-ray won, and then even if Blu-ray won to wait until you know that you can get a model that is going to work. They make faster graphics cards because computers are getting faster and games are getting better graphics. When the 8 track came out people knew that when the next standard of tape player came out they'd have to buy a new one. When laser disk came out people knew that the next step would be DVD's, but most people that buy an Blu-ray think they're going to have this for years to come and they won't have to buy a new one until something that uses a different technology all together comes out. They don't know that in a few months that when the series 2 comes out that they're going to have to throw their series one in the garbage and spend another $300-400 on a new unit and then when series 3 comes out their going to have to do the same.

The average persons way of being informed is asking their friends or going up to a sales person and asking a question and they usually don't know the right questions to ask. Its usually "what is better".

Oh and I'd rather spend my good money on a bigger TV and computer monitor, a faster computer, an Xbox 360 and/or a WII than spend my hard earned money on something I know will be a door stop in a few months.

OMG You Sony ****wits!! This was our chance to get a totally region free option (AT LAST) for the consumer. This would have been one step in the right direction for us "little people" but not forgetting the "which is better" hardware, this is a 3 giant steps back for us and still you can't see this!!

Sorry, HD DVD has region protection, it's in the spec, but currently not enforced. You would have to be an retard to think that would have stayed off, had HD DVD won.

Infact, the truth is, many studios have stayed Blu-ray, BECAUSE of the region coding it gives them.

So you can thank HD DVD's enforced lack of region coding, as the reason studios dumped it.

I prefer the Blu-ray method, where region coding is optional for the studios, about 60% of Blu-ray releases are regionfree, and this will in all likelihood remain to be the case, as studios that previously found it optional, will continue to do so.

Why do you think BluRay is going to win? It's all about control. Studios won't choose a technology that consumers want because it would move the control to consumers.

That's bad for business, you know consumers having rights and all.

Yep, because the industry believes that consumers don't have rights.

Thanks Sony.

Agreed. This is sad news. This is a big mistake and it is yet another step in the WRONG direction.

Big corporate control wins...consumer choice loses.

Sony thinks they and the studios can dictate which format wins, how we can use those discs, etc. They think they can pay off studios with hundreds of millions of dollars and limit our choices, but you just wait. I have a feeling consumers will have the last word with their wallets.

prices are lower on HD-DVD because they are dumping stock!...it has nothing to do with BD costing more....hell I never paid more than $15 for a movie on blu-ray....don't go by the prices in stores....online is where its at...sells blu ray or HD-DVD for "full price" online...

briguy...31,000 signatures! woohoo...Warner Brothers is laughing at you....

Hellcat...you have no clue...you will NOT have to buy a new player to watch the 2.0 discs....you will not be able to use the 2.0 features, but you will still be able to watch the movie...sorry....and what are you talking ab out with the PS3?...the PS3 is a VERY capable BD player...it outputs 1080p video, and up to 7.1 channels of uncompressed HD audio....compare that to the bottom tier "cheap" HD-DVD players that will only output 1080i...talk about crap, they can't even fully support the format they play! One thing you did get right is that studios are jumping ship because they don't want to be stuck with HD-DVD when it hits rock bottom...sales have been overwhelmingly in favor of blu ray and the studios have made their choices...if Warner recieved a buy out than so be it...Paramount received a buy out from Toshiba...unfortunately Paramount got the shaft because now they are stuck with the loser...

SGD, the PS3 can absolutely play burned BD's....it has been added since launch...

lvthunder your logic is flawed...if you just look at total number of titles available than yes, its damn close, but you have to take into account that Warner has JUST gone Blu exclusive, and will stop producing new HD-DVD movies this spring...Warner has BY FAR the largest catalog of titles, and does BY FAR the most business in the industry...its not even close....BD holds 83% of the market share when you break it down by studio....HD-DVD will just not be able to survive depending soley on Universal or Paramount....Warner did not stab HD-DVD in the back anymore than Paramount stabbed blu ray in the back....both were format neutral until Toshiba paid off Paramount to go HD exclusive...Warner became the only neutral studio....then Warner went exclusive...some say the BDA paid them to go exclusive...if thats the case than HD-DVD got what it deserved, they opened that can of worms and the BDA apparently has deeper pockets....thats not stabbing in the back, thats smart business people...

SGD I have NEVER purchased a used BD...all of my films have been brand new...im just not stupid enough to give best buy $34 for a movie...

Just because low end HD-DVD players max out at 1080i resolution doesn't mean they don't fully support the HD-DVD format. The picture quality all depends on your HDTV's video processor with the low end HD-DVD players. Who would want to spend $500 or more on a Toshiba HD-XA2 player when their HDTV already has a Silicon Optix Realta or Reon video processor? Also, HD-DVD movies only use the new high resolution Dolby audio formats (Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD). Blu-Ray movies on the other hand primarily use DTS-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio. The problem is there are no Blu-Ray players that can internally decode these formats so in many cases people end up only getting marginally better sound that regular DVD's since they only hear the core 1.5mbps DTS soundtrack (compared to the half bitrate 768k DTS audio on regular DVD's). To make matters worse, many Blu-Ray discs only have a regular Dolby Digital soundtrack. Talk about a mess with Blu-Ray. There is no point in buying a Blu-Ray player if you're only getting half the HD experience (HD video and standard definition sound).

Clearly HD-DVD is the superior format for movies.

thats not true at all....1st there are players that decode DTS-HD MA....2nd...many BD's come with 5.1 channel PCM audio, which is just totally uncompressed raw audio files, no decoding necessary...3rd...even if the BD player can not decode the file, if it can send the file bitstream, then chances are, if you are worried about DTS:HD audio then you have a receiver that can decode said format...

and about the video quality....i dont care what type of video processor is in your TV if the player only outputs 1080i you are not fully utilizing the format...your argument there is just stupid...

http://www.highdefdigest...VD_Audio_Explained/1064

"At the time of this writing, no HD DVD players will decode either a DTS-HD High Resolution or a DTS-HD Master Audio audio track. The players are limited to extracting the DTS cores, or (on selected player models) may be able to transmit the codec bitstream to a receiver using HDMI 1.3. Support for these DTS formats will hopefully expand with future player models or firmware updates to existing models."

read the whole article....audio codec support is really a wash....the advantage BD has IMO is the storage size, which allows for the uncompressed PCM option (all Sony and Disney releases use this)...

I don't shop at BB either but I never see new releases for 15 any place on the web. I expect nothing other than lies from you anyway so I don't expect any proof to that claim.

just look at Amazon...bunch of titles for less than $15....lots under $20....you just have to look around and not impulse buy....

"hell I never paid more than $15 for a movie on blu-ray....don't go by the prices in stores....online is where its at...sells blu ray or HD-DVD for "full price" online..."

Make the most of that while it lasts ;)

Agreed once the end comes for HD the prices of blo ray will go back up. How much did those UMD's cost? I can see it happen all over again. No thanks Sony.

On an HDTV with a good video processor, 1080i video will be completely indistinguishable from 1080p video.

HD-DVD players don't need to fully support the DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master audio formats. Every single HD-DVD movie disc ever released uses Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus. The two DTS-HD audio formats are non existent on HD-DVD movies. As for Blu-Ray, regular DTS audio sounds significantly worse than Dolby Digital Plus does. The lack of support for internal decoding of DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio on Blu-Ray player is a very big problem since most studios are releasing Blu-Ray movies that only have a soundtrack that uses one of the DTS-HD audio formats. Most people's home theater receivers are only HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2 compliant meaning no support for either DTS-HD format and no point in owning a Blu-Ray player.

Well said, Met. Well said.

Agree. You need to have your HDTV to support 1080p AND your hidef player to produce 1080p. Without the other, it will not produce 1080p. You have to have both to support 1080p.

No you don't. 1080p resolution simply means the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player is deinterlacing the video internally. 1080i resolution means the HDTV is deinterlacing the video. If you pass 1080p video to your HDTV then assuming the HDTV has a native resolution of 1920x1080 the HDTV will not do any video processing at all. The HDTV will simply display the already processed video on the screen.

That is quite simply untrue. This only reinforces the fact that consumers need to be better informed on a massive scale if the self-proclaimed "experts" do not know what they're talking about.

"i dont care what type of video processor is in your TV if the player only outputs 1080i you are not fully utilizing the format"

Would you care to explain why you believe that to be true?

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever in resolution between 1080i and 1080p, and there is no decrease in quality. As long as it is de-interlaced properly, it is full HD, and you are missing nothing.

1080p naturally has advantages over its interlaced counterpart, most notably its smoother handling of scenes with fast moving objects (less combing effects, which is why various HD sports channels only broadcast in 720p). Certain video processors handle that shortcoming better than others. However, the fact remains that the visual quality between the two is identical.

The only difference between 1080p30 and 1080i60 is the way that it's processed.

Yes you do. How can an HDTV that can only output 1080i to produce progressive 1080 resolution picture? If your HDTV does not support progressive output, it will just interlace it. The other way is if your HDTV can output up to 1080p, it is backward comaptible with 1080i or lower and if your HD player can only output 1080i like the Toshiba A2, the video output to your HDTV that can support up to 1080p will ONLY produce 1080i. You need to have both hardware to support progressive scanning in order to fully take advantage of full 1080p. Otherwise, you will get the lesser resolution.

No, you quite simply do not, and I would love to see a link that proves what you are claiming.

Naturally, a HDTV that is only capable of 1080i output will display 1080i, whether the source was 1080p or not. Thankfully, the only HDTV's this applies to are CRT-based models. However, all digital displays such as LCD, plasma, and DLP can only output progressive material. If they are fed an interlaced source, it is de-interlaced before it reaches the screen.

Also, you incorrectly mention that 1080i is the "lesser resolution" when compared to 1080p. That are exactly the same 1920x1080 resolution. Again, it's not a difference in resolution between the two, it's the way they are processed.

I don't get these companies! I see absolutley no reason why Blu-Ray is better than HD DVD. HD DVD has a far superior IME (PiP with the in-movie menu).

BTW, this petition has over 31,000 signatures to let the companies know the consumer has not "clearly" chosen Blu-Ray. Keep it going guys!

http://www.petitiononlin...perl/signed.cgi?SAVEHDD

Why Profile 2.0, even Profile 1.1 is better than HD DVD specs..

1) HD DVD has a paultry, far less than adequate 128mb cache for downloads.
2) HD DVD has low bitrate max
3) HD DVD has low capacity
4) HD DVD has few lossless audio titles
5) HD DVD has only one title with more than 5.1 lossless channels
6) Web-enabled is mostly limited to downloading SD trailers
7) PIP is limited to a secondary SD video stream.
8) Most HD DVD players only show crippled, downsampled 1080i video instead of the 1080p/24 image actually encoded on the disc.

That's a very bad arguement to say something thats much newer is better than its direct competitor that was finalised long ago.

What if hd-dvd did the same and started introducing new features that would be incompatible with older models? That would sure be one hell of a luxary to keep updating the format just so they can fight with each other. Sony had no problem with screwing over a few people here and there, thank god the other side didnt..

serious consumer backlash

Sonic ?? Who the they ?

They probebly dropped it due to the extra features to code for.

Sonic is the software used by the studios to create menus and encode the movies.

Sonic dropping HD DVD support leaves very little on the market as far as alternatives. I seem to recall one other product by Mainconcept, that's it.

"Sonic is the software used by the studios to create menus and encode the movies"

Just to clarify

Sonic is the software small studios use to author because of its cheap license price and the fact the real software costs a fortune.
Cinemacraft is where the real deal happens

The benefits of BD over HD. When BD upgrades to version 2.0 you'll have to buy a new player which makes more money for companies for BD. When you buy a PS3 you get a BD so you can watch lower quality hidef movies (than if you bought a stand alone player) on your big screen TV. The studios have to pay extra to author a BD movie because of the copy protection so it makes more money for Sony. It costs more to make a BD player so Sony can charge more than HD-DVD. Those are the benefits of HD. As you notice those benefits aren't beneficial to the people buying a BD player, but it does benefit the companies who make the players.

The sad thing about it is it really doesn't benefit the movie studios. Their just moving because they're scared that if HD-DVD looses the war they're stuck. It Benefits Sonic because they make the software that assists authoring and they probably made a deal to make money for each disk sold. In the end the customer gets the short end of the stick.

Will someone please explain to me again what the benefits of BD over HD is doing for the BIG COMPANIES. i've lost track from all the back-and-forth mud slinging. I know why I WOULD back one over the other due to features and stuff...but how do the movie studios, and media companies benefit from either format?

Fast cars .. Holidays anywhere, bug buckets of cash, killer exploding batteries strategically placed, sony love ?

Take your pick

they benefit because of higher sales, plain and simple....

Blu-ray has a higher install base. The big player there is the PS3...its got a built in BD player...

Blu ray has always had more exclusive studios....and now has nearly ALL studios exclusive...it also has a higher storage capacity (don't even start with the triple layer HD-DVD vapor-ware)

Blu ray has always had more exclusive studios....and now has nearly ALL studios exclusive...it also has a higher storage capacity (don't even start with the triple layer HD-DVD vapor-ware)

That's BS and you know it. I do believe that Universal and Paramount are still studios that aren't Blu-Ray exclusive are they not. In fact if you look at the number of movies each format has access to they are about the same. Yes Paramount and Universal have a lot more movies then the other studios. So you can say Blu-Ray has 80% of the studios, but only 50% of the movies.

I used to support each format about equally until Warner stabbed HDDVD in the back. Those are people I wouldn't want to do business with. Now I hope HDDVD can pull off a victory here. I was just at Fry's yesterday looking at the HDDVD's and the Blu-Rays. The average price for a Blu-Ray was $30, but HDDVD was $20. So not only are the players higher, but now the discs are too.

So let em get this right, the PS3 is what 90something percent of the bluray player market but can't read a burned blu ray disk. What the hell is the point to make something that for the most part all the players can not play it. Now that makes sense. The net result is no loss for either side.

well my PS3 plays BD-R and BD-RE just fine, as the PS3 specs say it does.

Once again, you are full of s***..

http://www.scei.co.jp/co...te/release/070223e.html

BD-Video BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE*
*BD-RE version 1.0 is not supported

does this mean we can play burnt games??

Last I heard the PS3 would not play them if that is not true then I stand corrected. At least if I am wrong I won't go run in the closet and cry like you. So to respond the same way as you eat shi$.

From what I've seen in various forums (Roxio's primarily) there are 2 ways to author a bd-r (bdmv, and bdav).

There were reports that BDMV on bd-r was disabled on a lot of players, due to it's use of certain menus (it seems that with the inclusion of these menues the players couldn't tell the difference between legitimate material and pirated). Most of these reports are about a year or so old, and newer one's claim that, with the latest firmware updates, this functionality has been added back in.

What do you think? Jesus some people...

Why would you even want to since the price of that blank media is so expensive?

when I have to watch lots of saved movies,
I don't want to switch to a new DVD every like 2 episodes you know.
if you record at Full-HD quality, the size gets pretty big.

I got a friend who would LOVE to know how he can make his ps3 play blu-ray movie backups.
He says its not possible. Please explain :)

Now come on Mark, you should know better than to promote piracy.

Wait, since when has HDDVD writers been readily available to consumers? I might have considered HDDVD if writers were available, but without being able to write disks, why bother buying a reader and putting myself at the mercy of having to rely on other people to create the media for me?

Sonic's DVD authoring apps are crap so I can't see that their Blu-Ray apps would be any better!

I agree, but Toshiba likes them enough to include them on their Satellite laptops. I'm still waiting for news from an objective source that points to HD-DVD being anything other than dead by year's end.

HD MKV ALL THE WAY!!

I don't give a flying **** about Blu-ray and HD-DVD. I STILL use 4.5gb DVD discs and will shortly be upgrading to 9gb discs. There is no frigging way on earth I will be upgrading to either Blu-ray or HD-DVD and I will certainly not be shelling out for the equipment. What a joke that you think I would just spend money after money after money. It took me long enough to swap to DVDs - that's it for now I'm afraid.

You realise all Blu-ray and HD DVD players will still play those DVD's just fine, and make a fine job of improving their quality with upscaling...

I have replaced very few of my DVD's todate (about 5 in total, of my favs), all other purchases are either DVD, if I think it won't be out on Blu for years, or Blu whenever possible, as the couple of ££ difference is worth it.

It sure will my fella, sony love you to bits and are curretly offering the most expensive players for your pleasure. They all are, unfortunatly, rushed a little, and we skipped on a few features. But you can allways buy another when we finnaly catch up. It will be worth it in the end after you help us kill HD-DVD off. Then we will have a dominant format exclusivly and then reward you with premium prices. You can be assured by our impecable reputation and success in history can be trusted with this choice.

Pull the other one ... its got exploding batteries.

is that another nail in the coffin?

spin away HD-DVD fanboys...spin away...

At this point who really cares! I have both formats and am on the verge of going back to SD DVD just because I am tired of all the crap and mud slinging by everyone. I don't trust $ony is an other major reason. When I look at SD DVD next to HD I find that the difference really is not that big to justify the huge cost difference in media. I can get a new release on SD for $14 or a month or so later for about $10 or I can pay $25 for the same on blu or HD. Then after waiting a couple of months guess what still $25, no thanks. I will buy used only at this point and that is getting to be reaching. I find myself in agreement with Hollywood that there is just not enough of a difference at this point but by all means keep up the fight troll boy.

Yep it's another nail.

However, wait for the HD DVD Spun NPD data that forgets 9million PS3's and shows a small increase in HD DVD standalone sales, since the fire sale started...

Who uses sonic! lol haven't heard of that program for years :-)

Definitely....

i have never paid more than $15 for a release on Blu-ray and have about 30 titles....

the only things i have paid more than $15 for are the two Sopranos boxed sets, and Planet Earth....and even those, i never paid more than $15 per disc included in the set...

are you serious? you obviously dont do much dvd authoring
look up Sonic Scenarist

I use different tools if I want to author. Sonic is crap has been when i used it back in the windows ME days. There is a reason why Big Box brands use it as preinstalled. Because it's garbage.

So the attach rate of those 9 million would be ... hmmm ... hardly seams a point to mentioning it really, does it?

You could say things would be really bad if it wasnt romping home with such a user base.

I see you worship blu ray like a religion and don't even support it by buying only used. Priceless.

LMAO @ windows ME

A couple PS3 users have 1 bluray movie. WOOT! WOOT!

What tools do you use?

By no means am I going to disagree that Sonic dropping HD DVD support is a good thing. Each time a company drops support, it hurts the format overall.

But how in the hell are you calling the NPD data "HD DVD spun"? Is it because your beloved VIDEO GAME system isn't counted? I'm sure that if there is a reliable way to indicate the number of PS3's that were only used primarily as br players, they would include this in their counts. Until that time though, they (acting as an impartial observer of industry sales and trends) can only include data from dedicated devices.

Since you wanted to chime in on the NPD's data for week 3 though, here you go:
http://www.dvdtown.com/n...re-after-huge-drop/5172

Aside from a misleading title, the data seems to indicate that the sales of each format has gone back to normal...66% blu vs. 34% HD DVD. Again, you can't really extrapolate numbers based on one week (nor can anyone safely call this a comeback on HD DVD's part); but these figures (within a few percentage points) have been the trend for awhile now...with that one notable exception.

Thanks for nailing the problem on the head.

Toshiba play tricks to fool the stupid.

They INCLUDE PS3 when it comes to attach rates, but then EXCLUDE PS3 when it comes to players sold.

They want it both ways, and fool people into thinking their numbers show positive results. However the reality is, HD DVD is sinking faster than the Titanic.

jugganutz,

you really have no idea of what your talking about. why dont you continue to author your stuff on DVDit or some other thing. Sonic is the professional standard you dope!

"Sonic is the professional standard you dope!"

It has NOT been the professional standard for a very long time.

so what is the professional tools that you would recommend?

How can I possibly recommend professional tools? I read forums, i write posts and I work a office job and teach Japanese to make a living.

I'm quite happy to use a sony product at home, Vegas movie studio.
Cinemacraft license their technology for hi-end authoring. It is them who are the standard for professionals and have been for around 5 years now. Sonic have been holding on with a few small studios still supporting them but overall they are more for the enthusiast these days.