A company releasing a product is nearly always good for the consumer or end-user. It promotes a free exchange of ideas and more knowledge for everyone who's interested. Whether the product makes sense financially is something the consumer and market will decide over time.

I haven't seen one comment on this board that justifies being AGAINST the release of the product. If it doesn't sell, is too slow, or it doesn't work, or is too buggy, or whatever--It still won't detract from the PS2 as the game machine that it is and that millions of people have purchased. But if it DOES sell, IS fast enough, does WORK, or whatever--then WOW!...maybe the consumer will get cool new ideas and products!

PS2 vs. Xbox is a seperate debate entirely. And which is the 'best' product is ENDLESSLY debatable--Does best mean most common and has the most support? That it has the fewest problems? Does best mean it makes the most money? Or that it costs the least? Does best mean the product survives in the market the longest compared to similar products? For example: Which do you think is 'BEST': VHS or Betamax? NT or OS/2? Windows or Mac? Ford or Honda?

Perhaps some enterprising soul will create a PVR/DVR built ontop of a PS2+Linux? Make it compatible with ReplayTV 4000s and their networking? I can see all kinds of possibilities. Don't tell people it can't be done...if you have a negative attitude, just keep you mouth shut. What will you lose? Remember, the world is flat--you can't sail around it--you'll fall off; Man can't fly--physics are against it; Man will never make it to the moon; UNTIL SOMEBODY DID IT!

ok for most of those comments i just read where people said that linux sux... well you can just bite me.. your just saying that because you dont really know it's true power.. this would be something nice.. i was able to get linux to work on my dreamcast (it was a bit slow but cool) i was the only kid on the block running his website off a dreamcast..) but it has many good points for this you can watch all your DiVX/SMR movies on it.. you can possibly plug your ps2 into a monitor for a better refresh rate. i just hope that they make it accessable to add extra ram and a bigger hard drive.. i for one am planning on purchasing this wonderful piece of equitment,, sony is doing a good thing because a lot of people out there cant really afford a computer.. (think about it they are actually pretty expensive..) so in return people bought ps/2's so the $300 on that has pretty much been spent.. so all they will have to pay is $200 now for a computer.. chances are that they will boot it up and wonder what the hell is this because linux scares most people... but after time when more and more people become familier with it you never know we could have a M$ less world in the future even though i doubt it...

sorry for the other post (if it posted, i am on a very slow computer) anyways my point...

$200 for the PS2 and then $200 for the Kit plus lets say about $50 for extra just to be on teh safe side. You could buy a P3 900Mhz PC with a 17" monitor, and lots of other nice things for that price and run linux on it, not only faster but probably alot more stable. When will Sony stoping kidding themselves the PS2 is a GAMES CONSOLE not a poor mans PC! They want the PS2 to be a home entertainment system, games console, and pc all in one. They tried doing this with that White (or black) PlayStation YEARS ago but it wasnt that good, it was too slow to do anything decent. I bet Sony wil release this and when it fails they will stop support for it and any further development and sony will never talk about it again! i cant see ANY use for a home user to be honest. Yes you could runa server on it but i doubt it would be any good if you were PLAYING in the game at the same time also, the console just wouldnt handle it. at the end of the day though what i say wont make any difference to the rest of you i am just voicing my opinion. i think sony are just getting a little worried about the Xbox and are trying to bring PS2 into the lime light again with a kind of "re-release" i bet the price drops within the next 2-3 months and loads of things owners have been waiting for come out just to make them think twice about selling it and buying an Xbox! I am kind of disappointed with my PS2 the graphics arnt that good and the sound quality is very poor sounds like a 128kbps mp3 most of the time and i am using it via scart on a dolby digital 5.1 surround system! i am looking forward to my Xbox though! i think vshop are getting alittle pissed of with me going in there all the time and playing on it for an hour or so :P

"I hate linux it sucks so much. There's almost nothing you can do on the OS without having to recompile your kernel and update X at least once. Oh its on a PlayStation, is it? That is so cool I wanna buy it .. I'll buy two just to be safe!!!!"

I don't see any goods of this kit for users or developers on ps2.

What and for whom this kit for??

Hopefully this settles the pricing... :)

Wednesday January 30, 6:39 pm Eastern Time
CORRECTED - CORRECTED-Sony to sell Linux kits for PlayStation 2
In Jan 30 TOKYO story headlined ``Sony to sell Linux kits for PlayStation 2'', please read in fifth paragraph...The kits will cost 25,000 yen ($188.3) in Japan, $199 in the United States...instead of...$299 in the United States... (correcting price in the U.S.)

For the folks, WebTV on steroids heh
For the developers, no royalties to sony to develop on PS2
For me, VCD, and Divx with TV out heh
For you, who knows, the sky's the limit with this device. :-)

SNES/Genesis/GBA/CPS2/Neogeo emulation, HTTP server, possible Half-Life/Unreal/etc server, mp3 player, divx player, etc, etc.

Maybe a Half Life server for 5 people, but it couldn't handle anymore than that

How do you know it would be limited to 5 people, I'd like to see the research you conducted in order to come to that conclusion.

Possibly, but the point is still valid.

do you know what it takes to make a good lag free server? If you even considered running PS2 as a server for a game you obviously don't...what's it have, like 8MB of RAM? I don't know exaclty how much, but I know it's a small amount, and not nearly enough to be any kind of game server. Processing power too...built from ground up to be optimized for games...that's always been the argument of PS2 supporters as to why it's better then the XBOX...but now that there's a linux kit available for it suddenly the PS2 processor can handle being a game server....for a large amount of people. Yea right ;) I could do the research and give you hard numbers of why it won't work, but why bother when it's so obvious? ;)

-Niro

Take it easy.
You might burst a vessel.

Uhh, lemme tell you bud, it doesn't take 8MB of ram to pass data, unless you are forking a new process for each socket. If you are doing that, yes you will run out of ram, otherwise if you code your app properly you will not. I have BBS code here I wrote a few months back that supports over 100 users in 2.5MB of ram, don't tell me it can't be done.

I want hard numbers, not bulls*** you pulled out of your ass.

LOL...ok chill boy, I apologize for trying to prove a point ;)

BBS doesn't exactly require high speed servers with alot of RAM...I thought we were talking about something like half life or quake, were there's actual graphics and lots of data to keep up with, not a bunch of ANSI characters floating on the screen.

You send graphics to a quake server? How dumb is that? It's all TEXT DATA putting people on a BBS is no different than manipulating and passing game data between sockets. 100 active BBS sockets probably passes more traffic than a 60 node quake server (I'm giving you the fact that quake passes a LOT of TEXT). My comparison is correct, game servers pass TEXT. BBS's pass TEXT.

Here is a good reference. The MESSAGE (read TEXT) window size is 20Kb(as in bit)ps this is less than that of a 28.8Kbps modem. A BBS transfers a little over half that, My TW server averages 1.0-1.5Kbps per user.

http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~bfilstru/quakefinal.pdf

A 486 can route traffic at ethernet speed. the average cablemodem uplink is 384Kbps. This leads me to believe that a total of 24 connections can be passing data flooding the full 20Kbps without bottlenecking the modem. If the "Emotion Engine" CPU is capable of the raw processing power it shows in it's games, surely it can manipulate game stats, and pass traffic between sockets for 24 connected users without bogging down. I manage to do it for 60-70 Tradewars players on a P233. I should also mention that Tradewars is totaly contained within the P233, there is no client interface to take any load off of the server service.

My take until someone proves otherwise is that a PS2 would support 24 users flawlessly provided that the O/S overhead is kept to a minimum, but that's one of the areas where Linux works best.

So in that case WebTV, VCD's and DIVX will all need a monitor to play on - and most people wont put up with having a monitor and TV in their living rooms - as the artical says "...and a computer monitor adaptor. The kit will only work when connected to a monitor - not a television". Shame really becuase otherwise it would possibley have been adopted by loads more people unless they revoke the monitor only and let TV Out also be added to the kit.

Yes however, after researching it for 5 whole seconds, I found that the monitor is only needed for the installation. I'm *SURE* that will be worked around in no time. ;-)

Oh man tradewars...brings back memories, I used to love tradewars in the bbs days...oh well. Anyway...I guess we'll see when it's finally released exactly what it's capable of doing.

It's adapted to the "internet days" http://www.eisonline.com

Oh wow I didn't know about that...I'm gonna go look into it. You know of any other bbs game that's adopted? ;) I can't remember the name of this one....it was l ike a role playing wanna be type game...damn wish I could remember the name. ;/

Ah nevermind...I just found it, legend of the red dragon was the game ;)

Ahhh LORD, another game I am proud to be an owner of. (I should get back into it I think.)

It's a little on the expensive side if you ask me.. At any rate, it's good to see that smart consumers can make a difference. (Yes, I signed the petition.)

Actually, the price listed is incorrect as it was stated in the news release...

Sony Computer Entertainment America announces Linux for PlayStation 2
Leader in computer entertainment responds to consumer demand by supporting popular open-source Linux operating system

LINUXWORLD CONFERENCE & EXPO, NEW YORK, Jan. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. announced today that it is set to release "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Release 1.0, targeted toward the Linux development community in North America. Designed as a hobbyist development environment, users can not only run the wide variety of computer applications written for the Linux operating system, but also create original programs and applications designed to run on "Linux (for PlayStation 2)." The company expects the kit to sell for about $199 USD when it is made available in May 2002 exclusively through its website (http://www.us.playstation.com).

As announced at the LinuxWorld Conference & Expo 2002, the leading event focused exclusively on Linux and open source solutions, "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" will for the first time allow developers in North America complete access to the PlayStation 2 runtime environment and system manuals.

The "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Release 1.0 kit includes:

Internal hard disk drive for PlayStation 2 (HDD) with 40 GB capacity

Network Adaptor (Ethernet) (for PlayStation 2) with 100 Base T Ethernet interface

Linux Kernel version 2.2.1 (with USB device support)

"Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Version 1.0 software distribution on two DVDs

gcc 2.95.2 and glibc 2.2.2 with VU assemblers

XFree86 3.3.6 with PlayStation 2 GS support

Computer monitor adaptor (for PlayStation 2) (with audio connectors)

USB Keyboard and mouse (for PlayStation 2)

In addition to the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" kit, users must have a standard North American PlayStation 2 (SCPH 30001, SCPH 30001R, SCPH 35001GT), a Memory Card (8M) (for PlayStation 2), and a VESA monitor. The graphics output requires a high-resolution computer display, with standard output set as XGA (1024 x 768 resolution); home televisions cannot be used as monitors. Computer displays supporting "sync on green" are mandatory.

Linux use is growing at unprecedented levels and according to IDC, a leading market research firm, the Linux operating system marketshare is expected to reach 38 percent worldwide by 2004. In response to many requests from the Japanese Linux society to enjoy Linux programming on PlayStation 2, Linux Beta Version Kit was made available to approximately 7,900 enthusiasts in Japan in July 2001. Since then, overwhelming numbers of requests have continued on Linux community websites all over the world, with approximately 9,500 people joining the movement.

Also, according to questionnaires conducted by Sony Computer Entertainment America and Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, more than 28,000 people have expressed interest in the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" development kit to date. This led the company to release a new version as Release 1.0 to support users of the worldwide Linux community. The company responded to feedback received from the Beta test program in Japan and modifications were incorporated for "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Release 1.0.

Customer support and other community-based features will be handled through the North American PlayStation 2 Linux website, http://www.playstation2-linux.com. More details regarding the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" release, FAQs and related news will be disseminated through this website, as it becomes available.

Ahh, that's much better. :-)

The news release got it wrong as far as I know. Sony specifically told Reuters it was $299 for the US. Unless Reuters screwed up.

IGN, GameSpot, as well as other sites are also reporting on the $199 price.

Snipped from IGN PS2, a posting last night, which was before BetaNews posted.

Sony Confirms US Linux Kit Release

Look inside for the release date, contents, and price of Sony's PS2 hobbyist development kit.

January 29, 2002

In a press release issued today, Sony Computer Entertainment America reconfirmed the release of the PlayStation 2 Linux kit (or "Linux (for PlayStation 2" Release 1.0 in official parlance) in the United States. The American version of the PS2 Linux kit, a hobbyist development system based on the popular open-source operating system, will be released exclusively through the PlayStation.com website in May. It will be priced at approximately $199.

Maybe I am not seeing the bigger picture. But why would people want to turn their playstations into a linux box..why not just buy a pc to do it?
If you put the cost of the playstation 2, the kit and a monitor together, it would be cheaper to buy a higher spec pc. Or have I missed the plot completely?

I'm not entirely sure of the whole plot myself, but here are the rumors I'm hearing.

A. Sony wants PS2 to become a PC platform all it's own.
B. Developers want to leverage Linux to develop games and browser type apps for common PS2 users.

Take these with a grain of salt as they are just rumors I've heard. :-)

Maybe they want it to be the Linux equivalent of the eMachine?
Maybe Linux is taking the "Linux Everywhere" idea, hehe...
(on a side note- what do most posters think of turning their high-dollar game console into a type of limited PC?)

James Wheat
http://belprecomputerwizard.com

It's a way of getting the soon-to-be-required ethernet card and hard drive into your PS/2 for a bit heftier price than you'd really want to pay without the novelty of being able to run SETI@Home on your PS/2 when you're at work.

It's a pity about the monitor requirement and the old versions of the kernel and XFree, but it should still be fun.

The monitor is only required to do the install. I'm sure once it's been out for a week someone will bundle "preinstalled" kits.

I would say that it's as unlimited as a PC. I think there's great possibility in it.

Ah, if that's true, then I'm happier.
I'd rather have a text console anyways... and at last they'll have ported nethack to a console machine!

Depends how easy it is to get additional hardware working with it.

Not being able to read audio cds/cdrs etc etc in the internal cd drive is kinda a pain to start with.

I guess its real use depends how much you want to spend on additional external (usb) hardware and how much of that hardware you can get to work.

Seems like it will be very limited compared to PCs though to me. Sounds like a nice toy to play around with but not a lot else.

Because the Linux lovers all have warped minds. Somehow they got it in their head that Linux is a gaming platform.

I never have liked Sony products anyways, they usually break faster than anything else I own, and are always propietary.

Yeah, I can only hope that the monitor requirement can be turned off after install, as the whole point of having the thing is to connect it to the TV (who runs their PS2 on a monitor anyway). Imagine playing DivX, MP3, etc on it and use the SPDIF optical out for audio too. Now someone just needs to make sure that the USB keyboard and mouse are RF wireless and Sony just might have something very cool here!

As for the software versions being old, well, that's all beside the point as developer folks will have upgrades that you could download directly to the hard drive via a broad band connection and upgrade the machine indefinitely.

Please, quit stirring up trouble.

My understanding of PS2 is that it has USB ports. Linux supports USB very well. :-)

the room mate owns all sony products. they seem fairly durable, although the trinitrons are heavy enough to give you a hernia. i cant see why you'd want to pay that much for a kit to turn your ps2 into a linux box. seems a bit pricey and i want it on the tv or i dont want it at all. i already have a pc with a monitor.

still. you'll be turning your neato snazzy looking ps2 into a frankenstiens monster, and it wont come close to any modern PCs in terms of performance. text consols on a ps2? foulness! all i want from my ps2 is fancy games, great graphics, and a broadband connection to play users online. anything more, especially when it requires hardware, is just not worth my interest. it's to bad sega stopped making consols because they really had some kick a** stuff with the dreamcast.

Agreed, I don't plan to waste money on PS2 either, but I can still see uses for it. ;-) The most useful to me would be divx decoding, but I'm not paying $500 for a divx decoder.

yes i know it has usb ports and yes i know linux claims (havent experienced it myself so i'll reserve judgment there) to support usb well. my point was that u will still need to buy the additional hardware (cd drive that can read normal disks definitely to start with) to make it anywhere near as functional as an off the shelf pc is.

besides, its still not going to really be a mainstream thing. so even if u get all your hardware + software working that you want i doubt it will be very optimised for divx etc play back on the PS2 hardware.

For someone who makes as much noise as you do in regards to propietary software, you sure don't seem to have a problem with proprietary hardware! Sony is a king in that department! Don't get me wrong, Sony do make a lot of great things, but there is usually something much better out there without having to pay extra for the Sony brand.

Did I say that I liked proprietary hardware? You are also talking out your ass, don't ASSUME I like or dislike anything. Half of the reason I DO NOT OWN a PS2 has everything to do with their proprietary business practices.

Who knows. :-)

They're making great progress with a Dreamcast divx player, so a ps2 version isn't that ridiculous.
The coders simply need time to learn the machine.

With Linux you can play DIVX v4 and Mpeg v1 or VCD and Mp3s

And the reason they don't just buy a pc is......
For the price of a PS2, kit and a good monitor you could buy a Linux box.