Sony won't even meet these new projections and they were talking trash about the 360 rollout.

What goes around comes around.

Boycott Sony! (It had to be said)

Ouch! Indeed, another $94 in lost revenue... I wonder how much under cost the console is now? Not sure it's going to make much difference though - the limited supplies *might* be enough to piss off the Japanese too much. That said, they're VERY image-conscious, and Sony is 'teh cool' in it's homeland.

and Sony is 'teh cool' in it's homeland, and the rest of the world, except the inbred US, who will cling to anything homegrown, regardless of how good or bad it is, this is the only reason XBox has stayed afloat, it's bombed really badly everywhere else, in particular in Europe and Japan.

What I find humorous is the incessant debate over the seemingly neverending speculation regarding the specultaion about the speculation of what will actually be in the unit IF is ever ships!

Who cares.

Why not wait and see what the configuration is once it actually ships!? Then you can whine and complain and beat your chest depending upon each person's emotional state, only this time it will be based upon reality.

So much self-righteous angst and debate between the various game platforms zealots, all over two overpriced platforms.

So how long does it take for them to make a design change and then produce the units and have them ready for retail?

It seems they have either made up their mind to include HDMI in the lower end unit already or won't have ANY of those units available at release anyway.

Doesn't matter much anyway. The vast majority of people won't be able to get their hands on one until mid 2007 probably. And if you pre-ordered - just remember what happened with 360 pre-orders.

Likely 2-4 weeks. Even more likely is that this was a relatively easy change. What I think happened is that they were flip flopping on adding HDMI to the lower end PS3's and none were actually developed. Most steps between making the PS3 lower end and higher end models are the same anyways and only the HD's used and a couple of other parts are different/missing.

What I think was happening was that they made only the higher end PS3's that are selling for $600. Since only 20% of the initial batch of PS3's will be the lower end models, they just make a bunch of higher end models until they finalized plans and likely a few weeks ago sent word to the manufactoring plants on what to make.

The bottom line, is this, the Premium PS3, and the basic PS3 NOW share the same motherboard and lower casing, previously having two seperate SKU's actually costed money in logistics. I would suggest the costs are similar at the end of the day, the basic now has additional components (HDMI chip, port), but the upside, is 1 single motherboard, common case, documentation etc etc etc.

Given Sony's problems with getting production units, they will have more units on the shelves, if they can make more commonality between the models.

and added HDMI 1.3 as well is very nice :)

Woopie Doo.

Chock full of DRM, Spyware, In-Game-Advertising and 100% episodic repeditive franchised FMV with no added Game Play. Blew Ray Blows as does their batteries, and an SPE in Cell. all wrapped up in an unreliable plastic case with 12 months limited warranty for fat dumb a** lower middle class consumers.

No thanks.

So 3 months of warranty is better right ? I heard thats what microsoft is doing in US. In some other countries he can't act like that, because there are some laws protecting consumer (like in Poland where we got more expensive electronics thanks to taxes but we got also two years warranty in consumer law so MS won't have a choice here anyway ]:->).

Go back to your Xbox, nothing for you here.

I don't know why you'd want to buy either of the systems actually, with that in mind. Why would you buy a next-gen player with only a 12-month warranty? Seems crazy! That's a lot of money to use every 12 months. :p

Have you read my post ? Microsoft gives only 3 month warranty in US, i wouldn't buy anything and i mean anything with only 3 months of warranty. Lucky we in poor Poland have consumer law that says 2 years of warranty for everything except food or because damage was done by user, and i think its two years also so Microsoft can only screw people in its own country... Sony also tries to screw people as it gives only 12 month warranty on PS2 in Poland, but consumer law is above their own warranty so they can suck my balls hehe Americans are rich anyway so they can afford to buy new xbox every 3 months and you know its Microsoft quality so it won't break right ? at least in theory ;)

Go back to your PS2, nothing for you here.

Woopie Doo.

Chock full of DRM, Spyware, In-Game-Advertising and 100% episodic repeditive franchised FMV with no added Game Play. Blew Ray Blows as does their batteries, and an SPE in Cell. all wrapped up in an unreliable plastic case with 12 months limited warranty for fat dumb a** lower middle class consumers.

No thanks.

Think what you want, the bottom line is this, if you want PROPER hi-def gaming, 1080p, then you need big amount of storage for all that data. The DVD9 in XBox360 does not cut it, and gues what, the HD-DVD drive is not used for games.

Anyone that thinks because games of today, that fit on 1 DVD, are not really thinking ahead of the amount of storage required for true 1080p gaming (not crappy upscaled low-def content that Microsoft are offering).

You'll also need at least another $2000 (and that's low end) for that HDTV & stereo system or it's a waste of time.

And if you already have it, and simply don't want a XBox360 because of it's HD limitations?

And that's fine for you and the people that do. But the ones that have that setup are the minority. I'm pretty sure that most people who buy either of the 3 sytems don't have a HDTV & decent stereo system. The XBox360's & Wii's HD limitations aren't a problem for the masses. Even most of of the PS3 users probably wont have that setup.

I guess you could you could say that a XBox360 & Wii hooked up to a HDTV and a PS3 hooked up to a TV would have the same HD limitations..

Remember that games are rendered. The textures are fairly small files. You can run today's PC games that come on DVDs in 1080p if you have the right hardware.

Now now now why are you talking about now ? Its no matter what is now, its perspective looking. Look at previous gen consoles, they market life is quite long, now with next gens it'll be even longer for sure (maybe even 8 years, if ps2 have 6 and is still selling). In few years almost everyone interested in console gaming and home theaters will have HDTV with HDMI input and quite possible with 1080 60p resolution. Microsoft made some design mistakes that could backfire, maybe not now, but later on it could be disadvantage.

Yes exactly when you use the same textures over and over. So you say DL DVD is enough for games, maybe even another 7-8 years ? The only way would be to ask developers from some companies like Squaresoft or Polyphony Digital, they could make use for so much space ;)

I think you need a bit more than $2000 for a good 1080P set.

The real question though is how many games will support 1080P? Right now, noone knows. And 360 will support 1080P as well - its up to the developers to make use of that - on both consoles.

Ok, let's talk about tomorrow. Lets say Blu-Ray & HD DVD never catch on...then what?

And if HD DVD does catch on in the future then I'm sure Microsft would then use the add on for games also.

I guess when you (and others) say Microsoft made design mistakes, you mean the lack of HDMI (and to some the lack of "built in" Blu-Ray). If that's the case, then why doesn't anyone mention Nintendo in the same sentence as Microsoft? The Wii isn't Hi Def.

Whilst it's true that Xbox360 will support 1080p (eventually with the forthcoming software update), the point it, the XBox360 does not have the storage space for 1080p content.

a DVD9 is barley enough for low-def content, and the HD-DVD drive will not be used for games in the Xbox360.

For true 1080p gaming, the PS3 with Blu-Ray and HDMI is the only way to go.

Wii has another aproach to market, not exactly like PS3 or Xbox360 as they're more about graphic and sound. Wii is about new idea and only time will tell how will work in long term, at least Sony is scared in Japan, as hype is high for Wii, many many people say they will buy Wii and not PS3 because they don't care about graphic.

Here we talk about consoles that bet they lifes on presentation and online capabilities. Microsoft stated they will not release games on hd-dvd, i can't remember right now where i've read this, but this could be true. They can't release game exclusively on hd-dvd, maybe both on dvd and hd-dvd - never say never.

If i can't understand lack of bigger storage i can't understand lack of digital video output, this is realy short perspective. It was real shock for me that next gen console don't have this, i was asking friend that just bought xbox360: - so you're buying new widescreen monitor with dvi, what digital output x360 have hdmi or dvi ? eee haven't seen any other then this ? how is it, it don't have any of this ?!? omg even cheap old graphic cards have dvi.

It's highly unlikely that the PS3 can even support true 1080p gaming, from a technical point of view. Consider how much graphics power it requires the modern computer to render a 3D game @ 1920x1080. An absolute truckload - and more than the PS3 will have even at launch.

I think true 1080p games are a bit of a pipe dream. Unless of course you lot don't mind playing at 20fps... :P

That's pure speculation - you don't KNOW that either Sony or MS are going to create 1080p games. You're arguing a point with no factual information either way - it's a classic sign of fanboy-ism.

Though reading your other posts, I don't think anyone is questioning your 'interests' on this subject. ;)

Quote:
"a DVD9 is barley enough for low-def content, and the HD-DVD drive will not be used for games in the Xbox360."

You.
Don't.
Know.
That.

Stop guessing. :P

There wont be any "proper" HD gaming with the PS3.
This is mostly marketing crap, in reality true hd is probably not possible and in any case, not worth the trouble.

NEWS FLASH: Most of the data used on multi-disc games like the ones Square Enix are famous for releasing hold mostly CGI pre-rendered movies. As for the speed of the optical discs, from what I recall reading, the DVD drives are usually 2x (or was it 4x) in the PS2 and Xbox.

With the power of both the Xbox360 and especially the PS3, it shouldn't be a problem to include real time cutscenes that look fantastic and save disc space. Will it look as good as the pre-rendered cutscenes. No. But it'll still look better and should rival (or be close enough to not matter) any CGI cutscenes used in the PS2. Look at some of the demos in games such as Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo. They look very very good. Considering that this is how real time stuff is suppose to look on the PS3, real time cutscenes should look fantastic and not have the sometimes jarring graphical differences evidenced in some games when it jumps to gameplay.

Take Oblivion. It is PC game but it is a game with a staggering amount of content. It all fits on one DVD. Why? Because it makes good use of the space and uses in game cutscenes instead of pre-renders.

For streaming data faster, which is one thing Sony has pimped about it's Blu-Ray disc drive, just use 16x or higher DVD drives instead of the 2x or 4x drives and...we see a huge increase in speed. Duh.

Unfortunately Sony fanboys will simply not accept the truth. That Blu-Ray was simply not needed by the PS3 and it was pushed onto consumers by other divisions in the Sony corporation.

If BR is the dominant format, Sony stands to reap a lot of money from licensing fees. Sony could litterally rake in billions over the next 5-10 years off of BR. That's why BR is being foistered on the gamers. Not because it is even remotely necessary, but because of dollars Sony can potentially make in the licensing department.

Licensing and selling proprietary formats has led to beta, atrac, memory stick, umd, and probably others I'm forgetting. In most cases (except for atrac), there was already an exhisting format that was equal or better but Sony wanted to try to get their format up so they could make money selling hardware as well as earn licensing revenue.

By the way, don't take this as me ranting against new formats or even proprietary formats. I just hate it when a company continually tries to lock me into their system when there is an equal or in some cases better rival format that is already in the market. In cases like CF and SD, they are already well established formats and the Memory Stick format was hardly needed. If the new format had a compelling feature to top exhisting ones then I can see supporting it but that hasn't been the case in most of Sony's proprietary crap.

And don't take this as a rant against Blu-Ray, I actually think that in many respects, it is better than HD-DVD. Specifically the standardized use of a protective coating (from TDK) to prevent scratched discs as well as the higher amount of data each disc layer can hold.

*EDIT*
And smart people will realise that 720p is also true HD. There are multiple resolutions in the HD format. 720p is part of it. 1080p is merely a higher resolution in the HD format. Not to mention that HDMI is not needed for 1080p resolutions. A dual link DVI port will handle 1080p resolutions though you'd need seperate audio cable(s). The usage of "true HD" is merely a Sony marchitecture term and holds no water when used to seperate "true" HD and "fake" HD. It either is HD resolution (720p, 1080i, 1080p) or it isn't.

HDMI is the media company's way of controlling how we watch our movies and taking away certain consumer rights we in the USA have.

Mark? You can chime in with your Sony fanboy comments any time.

Look at PC's. The majoraty of PC games are still on CD's; at most 4 CD's (which is still only 2.8gb). I don't think developers will have too much trouble getting there games on 9gb's.

What about the Xbox1 vs. the PS2. Didn't you say that it's not about the graphics, it's about the games?

720p and 1080i is HD.

Thats why i've said big developers should tell their opinions but i doubt they come here ;) I agree right now DL DVD is enough for every game, but we can't predict the future and the need for space.

I'm not too sure if you REALLY understand what you said here.

Hi-def gaming has much more to do with the GPU rather then the storage capacity. 99% of what you see are rendered in real-time. Only cinematics/cut scenes are pre-rendered.

DVD9 is more than adequate for most, if not all games.

Your logic makes no sense. Sony has been the leader in console gaming because for some reason, people are extremely loyal.

I had numerous consoles and had the Playstation and Nintendo 64. Instead of going with PS2, I thought - why don't I see what Microsoft has to offer this time - I can always get a PS2 later. I got the Xbox and haven't ever given it a second thought.

I think you confuse many peoples skeptisism with the PS3 to that of outright dislike for it. PS3 is not out, so who knows how good its going to be. I for one am going to keep an eye on it, but for now, I like Xbox live and am sticking with that unless there is a compelling reason not to.

Have you ever used an xbox or 360? Maybe you should buy one to see what its like? It seems anything that isn't Sony is bad to you and I have yet to figure out why.

Mark just says whatever he needs to at the time to prove his argument. Haven't you figured that out yet? ;)

Personally, I think its always about the game experience and the graphics just add to it.

Right now I see MS with the edge simply due to Live. That was what I loved about Xbox and my main reason for going with 360 - That and I loved playing COD2 on the kiosks.

Why is it not possible? We know it's not possible on XB0x360 (only upscaled 720p), but Sony are saying it's perfectly possible on PS3...

I don't have a XBox360, I am waiting for PS3, why on earth would anyone buy a stop-gap console? The PS2 still has decent games.

I have however seen several XBox360's the guy next door bought one, I was underwhelmed, and he sold it 6 months later, as the games were, in his words "crud". A couple of friends also have them, and when they are no in for repair, they seem OK, but again nothing stunning.

Not really next gen, more Gen 1.5. Seems alot of money to pay for 70% of the real deal..

How do you know that the PS3 isn't just going to "uscale" to 1080p?

A resolution is just a resolution. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to look any better, just not as pixelly.

"Have you ever used an xbox or 360?"
Maybe if it had Sony Xbox painted on it, he might; but otherwise no.

"Not really next gen, more Gen 1.5. Seems alot of money to pay for 70% of the real deal.."

So your willing to pay double the price for 'maybe' 1080p support (if the game supports it)?

I thought your argument for owning a PS2 over an Xbox1 was games... not the graphics. The games on the PS3 and Xbox360 will be almost the same (if you look at PS2 and Xbox1, game designers develope for the PS2 then port it over to the Xbox1... for the most part).

This price cut is in response to Wii, not Microsoft: http://www.tgdaily.com/2..._price_cut_nintendo_wii/

"The fact that even the PS2 outsells the Xbox 360 by a factor of 20:1 raises the question why Sony would be concerned about the PS3's value against the Xbox 360." --Tom's Hardware, Wolfgang Gruener September 22, 2006 15:54

Why can't Betanews put things in context? Did you even know this, Mark Gillespie?

Scott: I am not doing this to cut you or this site, please understand. It just seems that the THG article seems to be more accurate and telling, but heck even THG refers to articles over here from time to time.

That makes sense. The Japanese love Microsoft for their OS (99% usage), but aren't interested in the console. For them it's a culture/fashion thing. XBox isn't cool - Playstation and Nintendo consoles are. Those who have been to Japan will know exactly what I mean - image is everything.

THG should always be taken with a grain of salt, of course. Generally they're full-of-crap when it comes to hardware reviews - and clearly well paid for them. :P

Looks like It's a price cut for the Japanese market only regarding ZDNET.

Sony Sony Sony when do you learn to stay away from trying to be 'exclusive' only. Your still making the same mistakes as right from the beginning with your trinitron tubes, sure it has or had superb quality but pricing was over the top just to keep yourself exclusive. Young people however from this generation have complete different demands and ideas on how and where to identify with. Sony is sliding away from this market, it is old fashioned with to many company oldies of 50+ trying to simulate if they where still 16. It is problem after problem with Sony. Stay away of trying to be the best, stay away from trying to be 16 again or at least get some new fresh and young faces at the board of your company. Reorganize your company spend someless money on your overdone commercials make it simpler and spend that money in your research and price cuts on your tech stuff. It is idiot to see how you price your PS3 just to have a perfect tech machine. Let's see on the coming game shows wouldn;t surprise me to see WII going wow leaving PS3 behind them ;-)

They are cutting prices before it is released? That's original. So what is the point? I guess they want to get something good in the media other then ps3 yields low, initial shipment is a fraction of what was promised initially. Not to mention our batteries are causing laptops to burst into flames.

Now they are going to cause their losses to increase even more. sony has some messed up senior management and really needs to get a grip.

I haven't seen a compelling reason to dump my PS2 yet. Yes, the PS3 has more advanced features, but that doesn't make my PS2 useless. In fact, it's still as entertaining now as the day I bought it. They'd have to drop the price down to $200 before I'll even consider it.

How is this a strike back when it's only in Japan where MS is pretty much non existent anyhow?

Very good question.

*Nods*

Look above, it was in response to Wii. Nintendo is still quite a contender in Japan...

Hmm price cuts on the version that nobody wants(kinda like the 360s core) but no price cut on the one that everyone is going to be going for...Also they didn't say anything about price cuts in the US. It might happen but I wont hold my breath. But I mean how many people are actually going to benefit from this? Because you know everybody is going to be going for the premium version anyway.

"Sony spokeswoman Nanako Kato said there were no plans to lower prices in other markets."

Surely if "but no price cut on the one that everyone is going to be going for", then by definition if everyone is going for it, it's already priced correctly!!!

No.

It just means people such as you are willing to pay any price the manufacturer wants you to.

A correct pricing will give the consumer the most bang for their dollar.

Surely you will pay it, because you were told its a good deal.

This does not in fact make it a good deal.

A good deal would be if this is the greatest console ever, and does everything and more than it has promised.

Once that is confirmed, it will b a good deal, until then, you are merely paying a price that you were influenced to believe is what you should be paying for such a product, when indeed its actual worth to the consumer may be nil. ( as in if it is full of bugs, cant play the best games out, lacks features it has promised, etc )

Just FYI Mark-o polo.

Latz, SB

Well...I said before that if Sony had some sense, they'd lower the price a little so that it lessens the price gap between xbox 360 w/hd-dvd and the ps3 w/ blu-ray. They did it too. I am glad they are realising how important this is for them. I still think it's too little, too late, but this certainly gives them some points...

http://www.engadget.com/...-for-all-2005-xbox-360s/

Go Go early Adopters!

LOL, everyones favorite Microsoft have been charging for repairs to faulty consoles. This is getting better all the time.

How comes nobody mentioned that when their Xbox360s' went wrong or caught fire, they had to pay to have them fixed!!!

My collegue at work, has had 2 XBox 360 repairs, he must be broke by now...

Mark, I'd say you must own SNE stock, but you're too big of a tool. You must just be a fanboy. Sad.

Maybe you didn't know because you had your head in the sand. Maybe every polished turd Sony puts out is the best thing since apple pie to you. In reality, most regulars here try to be above partisanship, fair, neutral, and without too much bias, all while having a bourgeois attitude.

So get a clue. Maybe you like Sony that much, but don't act like it's out of the realm of reality for a company to charge for post-warranty repairs.

Really? I use IE7 RC1 and don't have any problems here...

EDIT: DOH, nevermind. Man, it's this particular board, the whole comments section for this article is all screwed up. Replied to comments regarding IE7 RC1 causing issues (and at work where I am now, I'm using IE6 SP2 and it has this problem!)

I guess it's not just IE7 then. I've been having this problem for a few weeks now, my replies keep ending up in some other random place instead of to the person I was replying to.

"most regulars here try to be above partisanship, fair, neutral, and without too much bias"

LOL, I have never seen a bigger bunch of pro Microsoft, anti Sony zealots anywhere on the web, but then the site is VERY U.S. biased, outside of your country, things are very different, perhaps you should take a look sometime...

If you have paid any attention at all, for the most part, people here used to be all for Sony. Over the last few years, they've been very anti-consumer. Wouldn't you agree to that?

As for the American bias, might I point out that half the world's economy is here? So what? Sony is anti-consumer globally. Calling them (you?) on it isn't American anything - it's being forthcoming.

I have to 100% percent agree...

Mark, almost every post of your's (especially on Sony products) is very largly biased towards Sony. While everyone one is entitled to their opinion, you take your's to the extreme. 9 times out of 10, you pick one very small piece of the entire article and find a way to bash whatever competitor may be involved.

As for Sony, I own a PS2, a PSP, at least 2 DVD players and a couple of TVs from Sony. I have to say that on this particular day, I wouldn't put another dime into Sony products because of their terrible behavior as of late (I won't post links, the stories are pretty damn easy to find).

With that said, with regards to the PS3, they are probably going to lose millions of dollars just simply because of the refusal to go with a cheaper technology, like say, HD-DVD. The fact that these units are going to cost more to produce is a pretty good indication that Sony is not in tip-top shape.

~dnc

I've had my 360 repaired twice within the past year (once for a broken DVD tray that was my son's fault, and once for over-heating problems). My unit is a 2006 unit (purchased in Januaray of 2006) and MSFT has paid for shipping it both ways and has never charged nor even asked me to pay for support.

~dnc

LOL... quit messing with the URL before posting the form back... ;-)

(running)

~dnc

Where are you from Mark?

"every polished turd Sony puts out is the best thing since apple pie to you" XD!

Whilst Sony have have not been that clever, it pales into insiginficance when compared to Microsoft's anti-trust, wich seem to occur on a monthly basis...

"Over Half the world's economy".

Jesus, you guys REALLY do believe what Bubba Gump Bush and the US media tells you...

The reality is, however that the US hold less than a quater of the global economy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_economy

Can I suggest, you don't watch Fox News, and perhaps tune to some International news channels once in a while for the real unbiased story.. You might also find how much of a laughing stock your great president it...

I've heard americans owners of xbox360 are pissed off because waranty is only like 3 months ? Is it true or just BS ? I'll then kick my friend (who told me this) in the nuts ;) but i know he made research before buying x360, so it could be true.

They can't go with HD-DVD, as they invented Bluray with few other companies, so how do you imagine that ? Leaving your invented format and use competition format ? and why you say its cheaper ?
It could be right now but after some time they will be identical, not only that but right now BR have some advantages over HD-DVD like storage space for example (but not only that). I'll repeat myself, i realy don't care about movies on console. Maybe microsoft lacks some bigger perspective, but some savings on digital connection or drive could backfire later, and sony is making smart move here as ps3 life could be even longer then ps2 one.

I realy don't know why but americans sound like cheap bas****s to me, you got nice money for you work and one of cheapest electronic equipment in the world, and you still whine about 600$ as its so much. It'll be a lot more in europe thanks to our taxes :/ My friend bought xbox360 premium for more then 600$. Our average salary is about 300-400$ for a month! Yeah you're realy cheap bas****s if you whine about 600$. How much do you have in your work 10,15,20$ for a hour ? We can't compare with that, and we don't cry just work more to get the same stuff as you.
I want to play good games, bigger storage, digital connections and faster more powerful hardware can mean something in few years, but the only thing that will matter in the end are good games.

Look at PS2 its very old console, but its large library of titles makes up for the hardware and PS2 is still good choice, it was selling better then xbox360 to may as i remember.

Nintendo Classic (8-bit) only had a 90-day limited warrenty in the US as well, this isn't just a Microsoft thing, people!

Ok but this was long time ago and nintendo didn't had any expensive heating hardware or mechanic-optical drive... They started to install fans after problems with ps1.

" realy don't know why but americans sound like cheap bas****s to me, you got nice money for you work and one of cheapest electronic equipment in the world, and you still whine about 600$ as its so much."

This is sadley true of many Americans. Having been to other countries before, even in U.K., Americans are viewed as spoiled brats, and in many ways we are.

Katrina isn't one-tenth the disaster it would have been if it hit in Mexico, people. Cut down Bush all you want, even with his problems even you can admit the response to Katrina was better than what the Mexican government's response would have been (no offense to you guys), just because we have the billions of USD to assist. Why the hell are we so arrogant as to gripe and complain? Sure, Bush bashers needed another skapegoat and another person to blame, and dang I know we could have had a much better response, but who the f*ck do we think we are? Complaining that the government didn't give us the help we needed...? Did you see the amount that they spent on Katrina relief???

Zygi, tell me if I'm wrong. Didn't we Americans sound like a bunch of babies after Katrina?

Listen, I am not undermining the great difficulties that arose from her, nor am I pretending it wasn't a national catastrophe--I've been through Rita too, and many of my friends lost their homes. I know it's hard. But geez--we should be thankful that we have a government with resources enough to help us,not biting the hands that feed us!

Sorry for veering off topic, but your comment spoke volumes to me, Zygi. Please know that there are Americans who are still sane in this country, even though you never hear about us :)

I know not all americans are dumb and arrogant, but when i heard from americans (it was program change wifes or something) that soldiers in Iraq, defend US, then i realy wondering how the hell these people could be so much brainwashed ? From what or who are they defending states and dying in Iraq can you tell me ? From Suddam Husain ? using non existing hidden weapons ? Right now iraq people die everyday, because of faction home war, Suddam wasn't saint but right now it looks like they changed from bad to even worse... It look to me like us soldiers are defending last resources of oil, its not secret Bush got strong support from oil companies... I would make a Bush the same trial like Hussain have, just because he is resposible for so many dead americans and iraq people.

Do you know why there is so many catastrophes right now ? Do you remember that US government haven't signed Kyoto agreement on lowering CO2 extraction to atmosphere ? Now i've heard some states are doing this on their own, because they understand risk of global warming and climathe changes, that are source of all this weather anomalies.

Deleted political statements, not the place, time or way we should be discussing this... needless to say, it is sad that you must resort to political hogwash in a forum that deals with a frikin game system. I apologise to anyone here who read my statements before I retracted them. I do believe what I had said, but again this is not the time or place for that debate.

You can talk about this privately on msn: ksibinski [at] tlen [dot] pl

We may not be half the worlds economy, but we are half the worlds consumers. ( we consume about 50% of the resources consumed by all human populous )

ANd thats what matters to companies, not the Marks, but the consumers.

And wiki is NOT a source that can be relied on.

ANd as for laughing at our president...say that when you tell us which country your from. You never know...you may be the next bunch of idiots we take out :).

Just another FYI Mark-o polo.

It's true. I know someone that had to send his XBox360 back to MS twice.

The first time the optical drive burnt a hole through a collectors edition of a game.

The second time something happened to the GPU, and it would no longer send a signal to any display device.

Unfortunately, his warranty ran out just before the second time it died, so he had to pay lots of $$$.

I recall reading on Bloomberg.com that Sony's own projections for the PS3 being that they will not recover the costs for developing it and subsidizing the costs associated with selling it until 5 years into the PS3's lifespan.

This means that to develope and sell the PS3, Sony's games division may run in the red for the next 4-5 years. I'm sure this also assumes that the PS3 will be the market leader with perhaps PS2 like sales numbers or close to PS2 numbers.

I am not sure how the Sony fanboys will spin that report but it just seems that any news about Sony these days is all negative. Even moves it is doing to try to make themselves look better are backfiring.

you are just jealous. yes, electronics cost less here, yes we get paid more. it doesn't mean however that i'm obligated to waste 2 month salary for a stupid gadget of my "Favorite" manufacturer. I can but i know better that this. it is my right not to buy a product that i believe to expencive for me even though it is even more expensive at some other place. your logic doesn't make sence.

as far as stupid people there is not one country immune from them.

keep wasting your 2 month of salary for stupid gadgets ( + 1/2 monthly salary for a game) but don't blame me for your financial situation - IT is your fault!

Did you ever own an Xbox?

This is my point. You brush of the 360 as if its far inferior, yet you've never tried it. And until we see them (360/PS3) side by side, we won't know if its inferior at all - and even if it is, it will be minimal.

I think many people just expect too much from this next gen - be it 360 or PS3. That is why they are disappointed - not because 360 doesn't have good games. Granted, not all are what they should be, but thats always the case.

Although - I guess you think PS3 will release and ALL games will be the best we've ever seen?

And in regards to 70% of the real deal? I guess that depends on how you define the real deal. I think its 100% of what is needed today and the foreseeable future for great gaming.

I refuse to invest in this platform for several reasons:
1. I do not support Sony period for it's DRM efforts. They must make amends for this. I want a personal apology.
2. The development of this platform is filled with chaos in and of itself. Who is to say post release it won't be reliable or stable? I will buy them and resell them on ebay, that is a fact!

With only the XBox360 HD-DVD bolt on, the only one living under the ICT black cloud, things are looking very gloomy for XBox360 owners who want HiDef...

PS. Sony did specify, it's HDMI 1.3

"Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. has announced that the PlayStation 3 with 20GB hard disk drive will come equipped with HDMI (Ver 1.3/supporting Deep Colour) output as standard with the system."

You keep calling it a bolt-on. It's an option. It isn't required for gaming at all, only the people who want to watch movies will buy it. With the PS3 people have to pay for it whether they want movies or not. Giving consumers a choice is not a bad thing. As for HDMI it's not that big a deal, it has absolutely nothing to do with gaming and no movies require it or are likely to require it for a very long time. I would not call that living under a black cloud since it doesn't affect gaming at all and that is what the majority buy consoles for.

Microsoft has never ruled out HDMI in the future either. I think it's very unlikely that movies will be crippled on the 360 if the ICT tag is turned on. Microsoft will have a solution if that ever happens. I still think it will be many years though, not enough people have HDMI compliant equipment. The studios are smarter than that.

In the case of the PS3, HDMI would have considerably better picture quality on games and movies than crappy analog component video.

why is that, you dont need hd-dvd to have high-deff on the 360, you can also use dvi, witch is the same thing as hdmi but without audio.

then dont use analog commponet, use rgb or dvi

Sure DVI and HDMI are indeed very similar, and backwards compatible, and ICT compatible.

Shame Xbox360 does not do DVI either.

There are no Digital outputs for video on the XBox360

Errm, RGB is analog...

I still find it amusing how many "experts" there are here...

DVI = Digital Video Interface = Xbox 360 does not have this port!

RGB is analog, not digital.

Sorry Banquo but your arguments sound funny, realy screw movies, i also don't care about them for a moment because there're maybe few titles worth watching right now. Lets talk about games, HDMI 1.3 means not only digital connection, deep colors and so on it also means 1920x1080 60fps progressive, ok i agree and have heard many opinions on people that compared hdmi and component output that there is no visible difference in quality, but of course this depends on source and tv.

I'm not sure does component connection able to output something like 1920x1080 60p. Second thing is that xbox360 HD-DVD addon won't be used for games, unlike ps3 where i think sony is pushing BR very hard, i heard even first generation games will be on BR discs. Developers right now don't want to make games on BR because media cost is high and they don't need so much space right now.

Right now not everybody have HDMI in his tv, and not every game needs 25 or 50 gb, but lets look at the future, in few years HDTV with HDMI and 1080p would be nothing special, and games "could" (this don't surely means they will) use need more space, i'm not talking about full 25gb, but lets say 10,12 or 15 gb of space, then BR comes in handy, it also have better transfer, error correction and hard coat (whatever that means ;) ) then DVD.

I'm only saying that sony is looking in the future, and microsoft made some long term mistakes (from my perspective) but only future will tell the truth, who will win xbox360 or ps3, hd-dvd or bluray. From this i've had only tested xbox360, i can say i'm impressed with online capabilities, but game library don't look attractive to me, right now its more or less pc library, right now i'm looking more into future ps3 titles like gran turismo 5 (i'm not saying forza 2 isn't sweet, but logitech g25 wheel wont work with xbox360, and thats because of microsoft and they exclusive for wheels, not only that but you can't play with keyboard and mouse on xbox360 with so many fps, i won't be playing them on pad period).

Lets get facts together - no games on hd-dvd, no hdmi, no playing on keyboard and mouse, no good wheel (and i'm not talking about cheap s***, but logitech g25 baby), too many pc titles i got enough of.

Lets wait and see what will happen, no smart man will buy ps3 on the day it will be released (except to resell ;) ) because of price, lack of titles and possible failure because of sony design flaw (cheap laser units or overheating, we can't ignore this possibility). Smart ones will wait to the moment when price will be lower then this on beginning, there will be some kicking a** titles and possible second revision will be released and at that moment it will be already clear who is the winner.

Why mention this?

The person above never said that RGB is NOT analog...

I wonder how people can debate over a non-issue so often...

Latz, SB

Not up to speed on my technical jargon or keeping up with the latest specs but I believe dual link DVI (not the same as dual DVI) which is a single connector will support any resolution HDMI 1.3 can and with the same amount of color depth. So HDMI is not exactly needed and without the DRM crap. Of course, the big media companies are forcing HDMI on us because they want to control every single facet of our home entertainment.

Honestly, at this rate, I will just read more books which doesn't hold jack for DRM and maybe play MMORPG's which are relatively cheap considering the time you can put into one and a good one should last you a few years. Just move to a new one every few years and done. That along with the numorous free games on the internet with good gameplay means you can just say screw it to all the repetitive sequels and other pieces of turd they repackage as new games.

Yes DVI-D have lower bandwith then HDMI, but hdmi have also to carry audio signal, and from what i've check single link DVI is able to transfer enough data for 1920x1080 60hz so this is exactly 1080 60p:

"Example display modes (single link):
HDTV (1920 × 1080) @ 60 Hz with 5% LCD blanking (131 MHz)
UXGA (1600 × 1200) @ 60 Hz with GTF blanking (161 MHz)
WUXGA (1920 × 1200) @ 60 Hz (154 MHz)
SXGA (1280 × 1024) @ 85 Hz with GTF blanking (159 MHz)"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI

"then dont use analog commponet, use rgb or dvi"

You see it was hidden meaning ;) don't use analog connection use digital rgb or dvi. I was exactly as when he would say don't use analog rgb, use digital hdmi or dvi... Even if he haven't said that it was meaning of his post, and when we are at it, RGB isn't better then Component, its better then composite and s-video. He surely meant D-Sub monitor connection that is used in xbox360, and they could at least use BNC it got better quality over D-Sub.

"1920x1080 60fps"
Actually it's up to the devolper if it's 60fps.

An act of desperation? I don't really see why they did this, since they were already pretty much assured success in Japan. Weren't they already losing a huge amount of money on each console? Now they are going to try and sell them even cheaper.

They are in need of some good PR, this is part of it.

If you want a decent HiDef system, there is no wonly one choice (2 if you count the 2 varieties of PS3).

Analog interconnets are a thing of the past. (cue Xbox fanboy to jump in about the yet-to-be-seen HDMI XBox cable, that only Lik-Sang advertise..)

"An act of desperation?"

An act of competition. Keep in mind that the vast majority of PS3s being manufactured are the more expensive unit.

I do expect this price cut to carry over to the US and Europe at some point.

Disregard, seems to be a bug with this forum and IE7. Replies keep going to the wrong place.

they dont need hdmi, they have dvi or rgb...

RGB is analog, and subject to ICT/HDCP.
DVI is not available on XBox360.

i guess this is great news !!!

.... for people in Japan .....

reading the cnn article i get the impression that this will *not* happen in the US, but things can change.

"The 20 GB model will now sell for about USD$429, instead of the USD$515 originally planned." really should be clarified to "The 20 GB model will now sell IN JAPAN for about USD$429, instead of the USD$515 originally planned."

Wow yes its Japan only, where there will be about 100,000 units shipped at launch... with a total of 500,000 world wide... and of that if you guys recall... estiamtes were at around 2-5% being of the lowend and some sites reported sony saying NO LOW END SHIPMENTS... its a F*CKING marketing ploy people, announce a price cut and hdmi addition and then don't actually ship any of the units... its smple and factual.

On the other hand the 360 is 399.99 with 1 game (GRAW) and i think 5-6 arcade titles that with the premium consoles would normally cost about 600$ and microsoft has it packaged in the EU and US for 399.99 ... so you get a working console with a launch title and a bunch of arcade games for less than a low end ps3.

The issue with people saying 360 games are "meh" is because they havent seen ps3 games... THEY LOOK THE FU*KING SAME... look at resistence. for its 22 gigs of glory its just a standard looking FPS title... but then again its 22 gigs of mostly regional content for the different areas wow... aint that great.

And for those that havent heard, certain ps3 games have been announced that will be over 70$ retail!

Sony is throwing marketing at the 360 trying to combat what it knows is gonna be a crappy christmas, with only 500k units shipping and it being highly priced in comparison to the 2 competitors and a bunch of 720p games that are mostly mediocre titltes themselves there really isnt any defining reason for them to be happy... estimates are they are loosing 400-500$ per console on every sale. thats HUGE for a company with razor thin financials in comparison to microsoft.

All people can say for the ps3 is "but FF and MGS are so awesome looking" ya wonderful, but they arent coming out now and all MGS has to show is CGI non Gameplay footage... and then you have microsoft and epic showcasing gears of war thats actual gameplay footage and quite unique... and it will be on store shelves this christmas when people are out buying presents... hmmm a ps3 with crappy launch titles or a 360 thats readily availalbe with gears of war and a few other games... hmmm let me think... kind of an easy choice

The fact is its a GAMING SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a f*ck about bluray or hddvd... but guess what if i end up wanting bluray down the road i have a cheap upgrade path a 200$ player... seems perfect... get the gaming system for my house for christmas and next year once more HDDVD titles are out i can pickup a 200$ addon player vs a 500$ standalone... sounds good to me... alot better than 450-600$ for a ps3 thats impossible to find without any games or anything.

Well put!