It would be great IF the end-result of this would be 2 systems capable of playing games in both media: PS3 and 360. This would really give game developers an option of what system they want to develop their games for. It's really good for consumers because they'll have to decide which system to buy instead of buying both.

By the way, where is dips*** and his two dozen usernames? Did he finally **** off or get banned?

yea its been some time. I think he is trolling still just keeping it on the down low until the dust settles.

Funny how yet again this has turned into a pissing match of 360 versus PS3 or the other way around. It is after all a game system not the end of the world. Really it really is not that important. Relax, watch a movie or play a game and enjoy life a little.

Well said. Everyons seems to defend thier purchase like they are not sure it was the right thing to do. Then tries to convince everyone to do the same so they dont feel so alone.

Kind of like religion.

Everything you own will be obsolete in a few years and there will be something new to replace it with. XBOX 720 / PS4 / Wii 2 etc..

I agree. Some people are just rabid about a format or a system and for the life of me makes no sense. Is life that bad that the only thing that is left to hold onto is a the above. All the systems that are out are good and have a following why can't people just except that? Seems people are no longer happy unless they can attack someone or stand on some stupid soap box about something that in the end is meaningless.

I like the PS3, it's just not as good as the 360 in many ways. The funny part is the people who only own one console always have to chime in about the other.

Losers.

SGD and Hollywood, well said. I have always found it funny how people get on their bandwagon about their respective console religion. like the post I started yesterday, people just assumed that i was pro 360 and anti ps3. for the record, I'm pro consumer, whatever is best for the consumer. BOTH consoles have strengths and weakness. People, just chose which console has more of what you want and go that way. easy. me, I have both so I get the best of both worlds.
now lets all hold hands and look forward to great games, and now we have one optical format, some great movies too.

Personally I don't think it's about a bandwagon.
Blu-ray incorporates an intent we all ought to be very critical & sceptical of.

High definition is the coming thing, no matter what.

Sadly the Blu-ray a$$holes want to spend zillions (which means of our money, ultimately, if we buy into it) on a closed & fenced off supposedly 'anti-piracy' future which will make life a complete pain & exclude anyone not willing to go along with their greedy little schemes.

IMO that sort of stupidity is well worth opposing every time.

Once more of the nuttier Blu-ray proposals become known (look forward to paying for your future profile updates......profile 2.0 is merely the last 'free' update) I think people are going to realise that the worst option won here (selected by the industry, of course, not the consumer - and don't try to give me that PS3 BS about this either, the a/v market chose nothing).

The only good thing here is that Blu-ray probably lost too, they just haven't realised it yet.

In their greed I reckon they have set up a nice little niche to gouge at will but the consumer is most likely to stick resolutely to upscaling SD DVD (maybe that Super Upconversion stuff will catch on; it at least is 100% compatible with existing SD DVD collections).

Oh my, the 360/HD-DVD was all yippity-yappity when they thought they were 'winning' the war. Get over your allegiance to Microsoft, or Sony, or whoever... and realize these companies don't give a hoot about silly kids arguing about "my Chev 5.0 is faster than your Ford 5.0". If you want to see the 360 go the way of the HD-DVD, then keep yelling for them to leave it 'as-is', and watch the next generation of games and content float right on by.

It's a freaking disc format guys - not a religion. If it is indeed 'too slow', well then, make it faster. Is there some inherent flaw in the 5 inch BD disc that doesn't allow it to be spun as fast as the identical 5 inch CD or DVD or HD-DVD? Jeepers...

You wont find me yelling leave it as-is. I'm all for them doing whatever it takes to bring the best gaming experience. Regardless of who does it that is what it is all about.(For me anyway) I will be the first to tell you if the PS3 had the 360s controller and Xbox Live my 360 would be long gone by now.

It's what you're used too... my old brain is programmed for the PS2/3 controller. The asymmetric XBOX controller is too complicated for me. ;)

Now that I have MediaLink for my Mac, my PS3 finally is the media platform it was meant to be. Live is definitely far ahead of the PS3 offerings, but then again, free is a hard price to argue over...

I had a PS2 long before I had an Xbox...I just flat out don't like the controller.

Isuspect the talk went something like this.....

BDA/Sony - Please please please please please please put Blu-ray into your next XBox and make an add-on for the current one, you know we're desperate to break out of the PS3 game console niche and will take any means possible to widen our market/appeal.

Microsoft - F*ck off!

Zothious You are a complete jack ass!

The PS3 can do 1080P with out issues!

Grow the hell up.

I have never had any 1080p isuues with my 360 or PS3 just for the record. My HD-A2 seems to lose it's HDMI handshake after a few hours of sitting idle though.

gate1975mlm thankyou very much for the personal attack once again proving how immature the sony fanboys are. now before you go flaming me again, read what i said, i never said the ps3 cant do 1080p, if you actualy read what i said, the game developers are releasing alot of the high profile games as 720p only for the PS3.
now before you go making more silly comments, educate yourself about what you want to say such as READING a persons post.

Its really funny how many of you really just don't know what your talking about. Xbox Fanyboys and all those Ps Sony fanboys who are so outspoken beating their chests about how wonderful their new bloated PS3's are. Oh and if they actualy checked the wonderful 1080p content of the PS3 they would find they only run at 720p where the 360 equil is actaly at 1080p. here is a lesson for all of you, Microsoft have no interest in HDDVD or BulRay, the only reason microsoft got behind HDDVD was for their own ends...to draw out the Hi Def war as long as possible. Microsoft has had more then enough money to end the war at any time. Why didnt they...maybe thats the question you should be asking yourselves. A Bluray add on by microsoft makes sence, they need to support the only hidef optical format out there, which is now bluray, only makes sence...and for all of you read the article...they wont put a bluray in for games as it is too slow for load times. And having games on bluray would not improve a game, it would just add more cinematics and reduce the gameplay.
ok you can start to flame me now if you like, just to prove how little you do know.

Blu-Ray too slow load for games ? What are you talking about? The PS3 limited to 720p ? Are you kidding or what ? More space for games would add cinematics and reduce gameplay? Really, you don't know what you are talking about. High-resolution textures for 720p and 1080p games require a lot of space on disc, better the graphic quality overall and higher the space requirements will be.
You are the one here that doesn't know and should check into things before claiming this or that.
DRM locked downloads won't replace physical formats for a long time, if ever. Bandwidth at home won't be enough until 2015-2018 at least and by 2012-2014 the UHDV 32MegaPixel standard should start replacing HDTV with H.265 codec and 500GB an 1000GB holographic discs. So.. what are you talking about?

"Takahashi reports that he raised an important technological point, however, and raised it directly to Glasgow: Xbox 360 games require a fast launch time for discs which Blu-ray may not be able to provide."
That would mean "too slow".
As for digital downloads, too far off, 2015+, id like you to walk into Steve Job's office and tell him that, as well as the entire movie industry...im sure that the people at netflix would appreciate that too. Face it people Bluray is the last of the optical format for main stream consumers.
Reason, its not about the technology, or about how much a disk can hold, its about the distribution, its about control. People, and im talking mum and dad consumer here, not the fanboys, dont care about hidef, teenagers dont care about quailty, if they did iTunes wouldnt be the nunber two retailer of music in the US. What people want is ease of use, they want to be able to sit back in their lounge chairs with a remote and rent a movie. Microsoft, Apple, NetFlix just to name three know and understand this.
hidef gaming, now i never said that the PS3 is limited to 720p, read my post...i said that the games that the studio houses are putting out are limiting them, dont belive me, check your sony ps3 games documentation, its right there if you care to read it, Devil May Cry 4: PS3 720p, 360 1080p, Assassins Creed the same, COD 4 the same etc... not many support 1080p for the ps3 at the current time. Now i will admit this might not be true in all markets...but it is true in atleast the 2 that i care about.
all the technology in the world is great for the fanboy, but for mum and dad consumer who dont have a hdtv, hidef is meaning less, only less then 5% of the US population have hidef, in australia its less then 1%, to these people spending $3000+ on a tv and another $400+ on a player is not in the relm of possibility.
what can they afford, a little box like the appletv? sure why not, they like apple itunes, xbox 360? if marketed correctly sure why not, we get games too, a pc? hey they already have that. People stop being fanboys and look at the world for what it really is and what people actualy want...

Do you work for Microsoft, I wonder..? Really, what are you talking about? Have you ever played any game on a PS3 ? And that's too slow for you? Don't be silly! It's not any quicker on the XBox360. Telling that the PS3 is slow at loading games off of Blu-Ray it's a silly statement. Blu-Ray transfer rates are much higher than DVD discs and that on the PS3 it's not just a basic 1x drive...
Whatever Gates and Jobs might think along with some movie producers simply doesn't matter. People will keep wanting to touch what they paid for, they won't allow some rich people with no clue of capitalism and basic respect for customers to rip them off thru downloaded DRM crippled content that's a pain to transfer between devices and can't be played anywhere. That's the main reason why holographic discs is going to be the next optical medium after Blu-Ray, and in fact Sony has already spent a lot of money of the technology and it's working to deliver it in the next few years, probably when the PS4 will be released around the 2011-2012 timeframe.
Then all your nonsense regarding no one knows about HDTV and such, what a pretty silly statement. Go back by 8-10 years and no one knew about xDSL either, so what? Look at now and you see that things have changed a lot worldwide. And LCD and Plasma tv sets are selling like hot cakes, everyone is buying them and expect many more to be sold along with millions of PS3 and cheap BD players. Also expect a big push of BD writers and recordable media at lower prices by this summer.

"s, too far off, 2015+, id like you to walk into Steve Job's office and tell him that, as well as the entire movie industry...im sure that the people at netflix would appreciate that too. Face it people Bluray is the last of the optical format for main stream consumers."

Have you been on xblive? you notice those movies that you can watch online in HD?
Those aren't part of your xbox you know? You actually stream / download the movie. 2015 sounds like something a Sony fanboi / propaganda guru would say to the papers.

Umm no thery are not the POS3 has considerable longer load times for example look at Lost planet. Even with downloads to HDD the load times are LONGER than the xbox 360.

If you need the weblink i am sure i can provide for you.

'"ears, probably when the PS4 will be released around the 2011-2012 timeframe"

Umm no Sony expect shte POS3 to last 10 years.
By then maybe they will take bandaid their wounds and discontinue their crappy consoles.

They are slower.

FYI the space isn't enough for bloray check out what the creator of Metal Gear is saying about the upcoming game and how he couldn't fit it all on one disk... can you say all cinematics?

Actually, the load times are dependent on the game and the developers...not the console.

Case in point: The Orange Box has a markedly longer load time on PS3 than the 360; however, Devil May Cry 4 (after a +5 min. HDD install) has shorter load times than its 360 counterpart.

The only fault you can lay on the PS3, in this regard, is that it's more difficult to develop for. As devs are getting more comfortable with the platform, issues like this will fade.

The hard drive install sure helps the PS3 version of Devil May Cry.

True on the development
Yes but the range of development is large as there are larger load times like i said with Lost Planet.
Just wait until the load times are questioned about Metal Gear

Sorry Zo I'm afraid I can't back you up on this one. Actually the case often seems to be that most games on both systems use 720p textures and upscale them to 1080p.(I think anyway) My only current complaints with the PS3 really are the controller and the poor online integration. Other than that it is a pretty rock solid machine so far. The only reason I like the 360 better is it has more games I like, Xbox Live is just done right plain and simple, and the controller is the best FPS controller ever built IMO hands down.

Does anyone has any news in the states about
BD-R LTH or BD+DVD?
BD+DVDs are three layer discs that's DVDx2+BDx1
which can be read using the current DVD players, except it also holds an extra BD layer for extra stuff.

"Does anyone has any news in the states about
BD-R LTH or BD+DVD?"

- Yes, the BDA have developed Blu-ray versions of the combo & Twin disc that we saw the HD DVD side show.

Shame for them that life is not that simple and what comes around goes around.

Sadly for the BDA the DVD Forum is unlikely in the extreme to let them touch DVD after the way they have treated the DVD Forum in all of this.

Rather ironically (given all the DRM/'security' intent behind Blu-ray) the BDA can't commercially release anything to do with DVD due to the rights and intellectual property arrangements the DVD Forum holds on DVD.

This is one of the really big trump cards the DVD Forum holds and I suspect it'll be a cold day in hell before the DVD Forum let the BDA anywhere near their DVD rights.

This is a prime reason why Blu-ray will never escape the niche.
A switch to Blu-ray requires new media which leaves people behind in a way that an HD DVD future with combos discs & Twin discs never would.

Some people should have been more careful about what they wished for.
Both of the competing high def formats lost this format war, it's just that one of them has yet to realise it.

Your right it is hard to convince people who just recently changed their VHS libraries to DVDs to move onto Bloray. Some Sony Fanbois believe the breakfast talk that the next gen of media is Holgraphic but its not there are already disks in the works 500g + and they will be the next generation.

Note that the 360 is on the Verge of "Worst Gaming Console" due to its failure rate (16%).

http://us.i1.yimg.com/vi...ring-of-failure/1192354

Thiis precisely why I waited until Dec 2006 to buy one, then I got the Elite at Halo launch. Not one problem on either console.

The first gen 360 consoles are horrible, the failure rate is insane on those things.

Luckily for Sony, the PS3 is holding up nicely in the failure department. The sam can't be said for the PS2 though.

They are worse than MS with failures.

I don't own a 360 and I won't until two things happen.

1. Decide to put a (@ One time a HD-DVD) BR Drive IN (Not on the side) of the 360.
2. Get the failure rate down to 3% - 5%.

16% is just waaaaaaaaaaay to high for ANY product!

I have never had an issue with my PS2 which I still have and bought back in 1999. My PS3 is well ventilated. For those who own a PS3, I did a heat sensor test, it run cooler on it's side then standing up.

The only PS2 console I heard with issues was the Slim which seems to have backward compatibility issues too. They used a different chip which ran cooler, hence the ability to make the slim.

Only console I ever killed was my PS (Original Playstation) but that was used @ my Shore house and we use to play Drunk on it and use it for EVERYTHING, so it took some abuse.

Wow, now that is amazing that you got your ps2 in 1999, when it wasn't even out until 2000...

It is very well documented that playstation 1 & 2 had some significant problems, even the slim-lines continued to have problems, don't know about the new version if they wiped those away or not.

Disk Read Errors were a huge problem on the ps2 and the slim-line had this issue of overheating after an hour or so.

Its well documented, all you have to do is type in disk read errors in google and bam playstation 2.

Yah, I remember when I use to play PS2 at my friend's house, always have to deal with the disc read errors.

1999 / 2000 so I was one year off. Main thing is I still own / use my original PS2.

Disc read error has happen on ALLLLLLLLLL systems. Console, PC, DVD Home players. Itc called cleaning the Lens!!!

All of you stick your PC's / Consoles in some area then just let them sit. Once a year, I take mine apart and clean off the Laser Lens which if you allow the dist over the years to build up will cause "Disc Read Errors".

Seriously, take one of your consoles apart. Open up your PC, tell me how much dust you find it it.

With the Fans in these system which they need for cooling, they are pulling in cool air, but they also pull in all that dust.

Read my above statement.

I don't own a 360 and I won't until two things happen.

1. Decide to put a (@ One time a HD-DVD) BR Drive IN (Not on the side) of the 360.

Really? It's never gonna happen...but you're not looking for a game console to play games. You are in a very small minority of those who want a media center more than a game console.

If you don't like the games that the 360 has just say that and leave it alone. Otherwise, it's quite a silly argument.

its a defective laser, there was a class action lawsuit, try again...

I am looking for CONVERGENCE!

I have enough things taking up space that could have been built into something else. For instance, my VOIP Linksys adapter... The Plug that powers it is larger the the box that hooks to the phone. They could have made it one box, bUt NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I have a Wireless Router, a Cable Modem and a VOIP Adapter. Three Devices, three Plus, why can't it be in one? It's not like it's Pretty or something I am going to show off to my friends.

A 360 with a HD (@ One Time) or a BR drive is it @ the core is still a high end game console, it just happens to be able to read a broader array of Media and it allows game makers to produce more content for the games.

I am trying to HELP you all if you have not read into that yet.

You know when CDROM drives were first introduced for the PC's / MAC most said they were to expensive and there was no need for them, where are we at now?

Chances are I am older then most of you and I remember the BETAMAX conflict. If you do your Homework, BETA tapes were a better media the VHS, but Sony said "We will not allow any adult based movies / material to be produced on our media". Then the adult industry wen to VHS, they did not care, that is why it failed.

Bottom line, if you allow a media to be put into homes weather it be HD or BR, whichever one gets the freedom to produce for it's customer, it will be a win-win for all. In this case, if BR is allowed to be on the XBOX and PS3 (Which is is standard) it makes for a better and more compatible future for all gamers and movie buffs because it creates a Media Standard which is what happened to VHS and it succeeded tremendously for all.

I know there was in certain Model of the PS2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/...ation_2#Disc_read_error) but for the most part it was DIRT. All Sony did was clean your PS2. They did not replace the laser. I have, but have you actually worked in a Service Depot?

Seriously OPEN YOUR OLDER CONSOLE!!! OPEN YOUR PC! DUST / DIRT!

You will find cleaning that out will make it run better and cooler.

None of you take the time to clean / blow them out. Every PC I fix for someone, first thing I ask them is "Have you ever opened it up and cleaned it". Most of them give me the "Open???"

Al electronics are static Magnets, static attracts dirt / dust which causes Mis-reads, Overheats and such.

Goood stick with your POS3 and POS2
One more copy of Gears Of War 2 for someone else purchasing a 360 console during Christmas.

And 16% of those will fail!

http://us.i1.yimg.com/vi...ring-of-failure/1192354

Can't play a Console game on a Console that won't work!

Meanwhile my POS's will still be running!

Again, wrong do a search have them post their serials if you don't believe it there was quite a few revisions with that problems, when calibrating the laser fixes it, thats not dirt...

I seem to recall saying that this would happen, and the blubloods claiming that it never would.

"New data shows that the price of Blu-ray players has been in an upward trend since HD DVD's demise."

"On January 1st 2008 (Before Warner chose Blu-ray) the average price of a Panasonice DMP-BD30K player was $401. On March 2nd it was up at $495. "

http://www.dvdtown.com/n...-blu-ray-prices-up/5310

Yep, the death of HD-DVD sure was good for consumers.

If you understand supply and demand you might realize that supply has stayed the same and demand has increase many times over since HD-DVD went dead.

@Fewt - If supply stays same and demand increases what happens to price? Solve for x:

Yeah, I'm sure Sony and friends would never gouge consumers now that they have no competition. I'm sure it's just "supply and demand"...wink wink.

Sony is going to cut PS3 price down to $299 during 2008. So.. ?

Demand hasn't increased, it's still < 2% of the market.

Even if it had increased a little but (which it hasn't) then it still wouldn't justify a near 30% markup.

The demand for HD-DVD has increased though, since it's all now on clearance.

Thanks.

I'm assuming you got this information directly from your magic 8 ball?

WOW, my magic 8 ball always says try again :(

I think its broken

I don't really care for HD-DVD or Blue-ray, don't have any..

But think this way if Xbox 360 would already be bring HD-DVD incorporated by default and you paid more 100$ for it, now people would be screaming HELL What will i do with the HD-DVD reader now??

So now people if really want blue-ray reader just buy one :)

I don't really care for HD-DVD or Blue-ray, don't have any..

But think this way if Xbox 360 would already be bring HD-DVD incorporated by default and you paid more 100$ for it, now people would be screaming HELL What will i do with the HD-DVD reader now??

So now people if really want blue-ray reader just buy one :)

Further proof that Sony did the right thing with the PS3, and waited until the hardware was READY and RELIABLE...

Ready, hardly, can you say profiles.

Oh yeah let me add to that, the yellow ring of death that is being reported online about the PS3. So much for reliable.

Yellow Ring of Death?? Dude SGD, there is no widespread problem as you would like others believe. Stop making up things!

Last time you brought this up you asked me to Google it, then I did and posted my findings but you didn't comment... Let's try again.

Lets see what happens.

Googled "PS3 yellow ring of death" = no results.

ok without the " ".
PS3 yellow ring of death = 28,500 results. I scroll down... A few about some PS3's with problems (which turning it off and on fixes), half are about ps3 and yellow dog linux, a the rest are stories about 360's red RING OF DEATH and a PS3 mention.

Let's try something else...
Googled "yellow ring of death" = 147 results. HOLY CRAP!!! 147 results out of 10.5 million sold. Thats .0014%. AND, again, reading some of these reports indicate that it was just the machine that froze and turning on and off fixed it. NOT 1 story about a PS3 having to be send back to SONY 3x's due to Yellow Ring of Death.

And Lastly...
Googled "Red Ring of Death" = 989,000.

If the machine is freezing, whether turning it on and off fixes it indicates a defect, maybe now its not an issue, but how long until it does fail?

Stop being a farking fanboy and realize that as long as hardware is made by humans there will be problems.

roflmao...

Ready...

That's too funny, man. You should be a comedian.

Like we didn't know this was coming. DVD-9 just isnt enought room for newer games and HD-DVD is dead.

Let's see, we can use an existing optical format that can hold up to 200GB theoretically, or create a brand new proprietary format just for our games. My money is on the 360 getting a BD add-on.

I thought is would never happen but obviously it will now. Get over it HD-DVD fan boys, I have. Bring on the BD games I say. Of course if they had any brains, it would play games and movies and save people from having to buy a set top BD player.

Microsoft and Toshiba should have spent a lot more money on advertising and tours if they wanted HD-DVD to win. Why wouldn't Microsoft do whatever they needed to do to win, like pay Warner off?

Dumb asses. Now we are stuck with one format they will price fix for years to get thier lost billions back.

"Why wouldn't Microsoft do whatever they needed to do to win, like pay Warner off?"

That's something I've been wondering myself...

They didn't need HD-DVD to win like Sony needed Blu-Ray to win. That'd be my guess.

They supported HD-DVD, invested in it, but ultimately, they didn't have all of their eggs in the hd-dvd basket.

Anyone here realize that MS does not care what Hardware is in the 360. In fact they would not mind if someone else built the 360. All MS wants and will ever be is a Software company. In this case the software is the GAMES!

For all, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, there is really no $$$ (Or I should say Profit) in the Consoles themselves. It is all in the Software (Games) and Accessories!

If MS was smart, they would put the Drive in the 360 and not on the side of it. An External Drive is simply going to make the 360 More expensive unit to buy. MS was not taking advantage on a HD Drive for game which would have been good (30GB Discs!). Just imaging what games like Gears of War and Halo would have been like given a 50GB Disc to put them on. MS never planned to use the HD Drive as a game benefit, they just saw it as an accessory to sell and because it was the opposite of Sony, that is the simple reason they went with it.

And for those Sony / PS3 haters, 360 has a much larger library of games, but until you have seen the PS3 play on an HDTV, you are really missing out.

Don't knock it until you try it and that goes for a BLU-RAY in the 360 too!

"If MS was smart, they would put the Drive in the 360 and not on the side of it. An External Drive is simply going to make the 360 More expensive unit to buy."

You don't know what you are talking about. I think MS make a great move by making it as an add on. It lower their expenses and the customer's. It also increase their profit margin. As far as blu ray goes, it's only for movie for now. DVD9 is sufficient for 99.99% of the games out there.

If there is no better format come out, the next version of the xbox may include one. However, if the cable and telecomm open up the broadband, the next version of the xbox might not even has optical drive at all. They can just equip a 1TB hdd or 2x500gb in the Xbox and gigabit ethernet card, and have the games stream over xbox live. HDD is getting cheaper by day, you can get a 1tb external for about 200 or less. In two years, it probably cost 100.

"I think MS make a great move by making it as an add on."

- How did it lower the expense, the HDDVD ad-on started it's life @ $200.

"As far as blu ray goes, it's only for movie for now."

- I own a PS3 and it seems that all my games are on BLU-RAY. Chances are the games do not take up the entire Disc, but lets take for example the New Metal Gear Solid that is coming soon. Developers had to cut content out because even @ 50GB, the game was larger (http://kotaku.com/362807...oesnt-have-enough-space)

At least with Sony, they choose to move forward bu putting their HD Drive in the Unit. It was a gamble especially if Blu-ray did not win the HD War.

MS Choose to make their HD Drive external, so when you put that with the Cost of the 360, lets see that makes (Prices @ their Peak not on Discontinued products. Also this makes it the same as the PS3 in abilities out of the box):

- XBOX 360: $349 (PS3 is $399)
- HD-DVD Add On: $179 (Sony has built in Next Gen Drive)
- Wireless Adapter: $99 (PS3 has it built in)
- 20GB Drive: $99 ($399 PS3 comes with a 40GB)

So right now to get the 360 out of the box to heave a similar hardware you would need to spend: $726. Now you are saying "The HD-DVD Drive is only $50 now". Ok, then the price is now $597, but what are you going to use the HD-DVD for??? Fine, it makes a decent Up convert DVD Player that generally take a literal minute to boot the movie!

Bottom line, for $399 you get a next gen console that has all you need. Firmware upgrade will add more.

The only advantage of the 360 right now are is XBOX Live and the game library. The PS3 does have some catching up to do there, but HD-DVD folding it in will impact what happens to the 360. Game developers WANTED to make HD-DVD games and MS did not.

My train of thought is:

"It's better to have it then need it then need it and not have it"

PS. The PS3 does have backward compatibility, unlike the usual Microsoft way of things to stop support after 3 years. Regardless of the PS3, they still sell and support the PS2. Game developers still sell and support games (XBOX is no longer made nor are the games supported). This also proves that MS is not in it for the hardware, it's just in it for the Software.

Really game developers wanted to make hd-dvd games? where? The Hd_dvd was always intended as an add on not everyone owns one and MS would have to develop for two different configurations.

Love your game machine all you want, but its going to take time before the ps3 power is really going to be used.

As it stands a year later the xbox360 is still selling and the games still look better especially when compared to their multi-platform counterparts.

I'll eventually pick up a xbox360 but I have a ps2, so for the time being ps3 makes sense.

In order to get to the price point of the 40 gb they had to cut out a bunch. The main selling point with the ps3 was it would be able to play playstation 1 & 2 games and upconvert them to make them look better.

As it stands you cannot buy a backwards compatible ps3 unless you go through ebay or an individual seller. Best buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Target etcetc do not carry it in their stores or have them online.

Hey retardo, $349 xbox 360 comes with a 20 gig hard drive.

Hey Retardo, all the PS3 come with an Hard Drive, they are not an "Option"

Fine: $99 you don't have top spend, you ca put that toward another XBOX 360 accessory that the PS3 has built in.

Realize, I am not putting down the 360, I think it's great, but it makes sense to put the BLU-RAY drive in the the 360.

My PS3 is backward Compatible, I have the 80GB version I got it @ Best Buy in November 2007. I still have an play my PS2 and have a handful of PS1 games and they all play fine in the PS3.

The 360 has less backward compatibility with XBOX games then the PS3 does with PS2 or PS1 games. Ultimately it made sense for me to have a PS3, I have an HDTV and I can take full advantage of it's capabilities.

"I own a PS3"

I can tell. I can tell that, that's all you own too."

- HD-DVD Add On: $179 (Sony has built in Next Gen Drive)"

Who cares? HD-DVD is dead anyway. You can download HD movies on Xbox Live without buying either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive anyway.

"- Wireless Adapter: $99 (PS3 has it built in)"
Who cares? Wireless isn't needed and eithernet is faster anyway.

"- 20GB Drive: $99 ($399 PS3 comes with a 40GB)"
Who cares? Like already mentioned, it's aleady included in the $349.99 one anyway.

So that just leaves the better online and more games for the 'cheaper' Xbox 360, which I'd rather have over a Wifi and and HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive anyday. I just defunked your whole comment.

"The PS3 does have backward compatibility"

Nope, not the $399 one. Who cares anyway I bought a 360 for 360 games, I bought a PS2 for PS2 games and I bought an Xbox for Xbox games. No need for backwards compatible.

Uhhh, the 360 does 1080p too with HDMI. You probably don't even have an 1080p HDTV. Remember that Panasonic tv you took a picture of with your Sony Cybershot? Sorry that tv only does 720p, Dave.

Understandable but the xbox360 never claimed it would be fully backward compatible either.

I think maybe MS next console maybe it will have a blu-ray drive but to develop a new console with blu-ray this early? Not a good idea UNLESS it is an add on, its reasonable, and the games show there is a benefit for it.

"I can tell. I can tell that, that's all you own too."

- No Jacka$$ its not all I own. I have 4 Consoles.

"Who cares? HD-DVD is dead anyway. You can download HD movies on Xbox Live without buying either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive anyway."

- If you took the 10 seconds to read my post, you would have seen that I posted that HDDVD was dead and could only really be a benefit to upscale your movies. Plus, I would rather HAVE the BLU-RAY or HDDVD Drive in my Console then spend $$$ on adding it.

"Who cares? Wireless isn't needed and eithernet is faster anyway."

- Wireless is convenient for those that the Router is 100ft away. Lets see, run a 100+ feet of cable, or turn the wireless on, I think the decision is simple!

"Who cares? Like already mentioned, it's already included in the $349.99 one anyway."

- Sony did not make the Hard Drive and "Option" on their low end PS3. The low end 360, it is an OPTION, hence $99!

I bought the PS3 to play PS3 games, but I also bought it to be my BLU-RAY player and a Media Center. The market anymore is to have these consoles as a Media / All in one Center.

And MY PS3 (the $499 - 80GB version) is Backward compatible. If you read the spec sheet of the $399 PS3, they do not "Guarantee" it will play your older games, it can, but there is no guarantee. It was only in October of 2007 that Sony more or less removed most / all backward compatibility from the 40GB (http://gizmodo.com/gadge...ets-the-boot-307595.php) 40 GB produced prior will have Backwards compatibility to a degree.

By your way of thinking, when a new console comes out, you just throw the old one and it's games in the closet. Sorry, I spend good money on my stuff and I like to see them last. I feel sorry for those with the Original XBOX because there is no support or games made for it anymore. It's nothing more then a Doorstop. Yes, Sony just recently stopped support and games for the PS1 (Original Playstation). The PS2 still continues to be sold and het games and support for it. The PS2 overall is the best selling console in HISTORY and even though someone like you would throw it to the side there are still a ton of people that buy / use it for everyday gaming and DVD Playback.

Downloadable content is great, but sometime people want the physical item in their hands. I love Technology and all the it has done, but there are a lot of aspects that are still in the works.

You seem to think I hate the 360 and I am a Sony Fan boy. Not at all. I just see more sense for the consumer to make a BLU-RAY drive a part of the 360 rather then an add-on. Even if HD-DVD Lived, it would have made better sense to put in in the unit rather then a side-car.

Overall, you have "defunked" nothing.

I have 1080p!

LOVE IT!

I feel sorry for those with the Original XBOX owners because there is no support or games made for it anymore. It's nothing more then a Doorstop. Yes, Sony just recently stopped support and games for the PS1 (Original Playstation). The PS2 still continues to be sold and get games and support for it. The PS2 overall is the best selling console in HISTORY and even though someone would throw it to the side there are still a ton of people that buy / use it for everyday gaming and DVD Playback.

My point is, just because Sony released the PS3, they never stopped developing for the PS2 which means Millions of people were not simply left hanging.

MS does it with their Software and with their consoles, as soon as they can get the new one out, they stop supporting the old one.

To me, these console should give a 5 - 7 year life in our homes. I say that time frame because every 5 - 7 years the next great something in tech seems to hit. The PS2 is now almost 10 years old. Sony's original plan was for 5 years so it far exceeded their estimate. I see the 360, PS3 and Wii having a healthy run, but I am willing to bet that out of all of them, MS will leave their community hanging again when they want to put out the new XBOX and cut current 360 owners off at the knees.

Microsoft gave up on the Xbox though, because nvidia wouldn't make the gpu anymore for it, so really they had no choice...

As stated above MS had NO choice, Nvidia stopped developing the GPU, kind of hard to make a console without it, hence the limited compatibility.

There is always someone that will produce for you as long as you are willing to pay, there will be someone to produce.

I don't think NVIDIA gave up, I think MS gave up on NVIDIA.

No, its well documented that Nvidia gave up, and it doesn't work that way, you cannot decide to just give someone else the product to develop.

Its Nvidia's card not MS they cannot just go oh well we will give your design to someone else. There's contracts, patents, finding someone to develop.

Funny, you claim you are not a fanboy yet keep bringing up something that truly was beyond MS control.

You wernt talking about the arcade 360.

Looks like you realized it to.

Heck yah.
So do I!

In fact they would not mind if someone else built the 360. All MS wants and will ever be is a Software company. In this case the software is the GAMES!

The fact they even entered the console market in the first place when such beasts already existed kind of disproves your assertion here. If all they wanted to do was make games, they would have simply made games for the PS, eh?

Sorry, was that too logical?

"- No Jacka$$ its not all I own. I have 4 Consoles."

Where's your Xbox/Xbox 360?

"you would have seen that I posted that HDDVD was dead and could only really be a benefit to upscale your movies."

If you had a 360 you would know the 360 already does that without the HD-DVD drive.

"- Wireless is convenient for those that the Router is 100ft away. Lets see, run a 100+ feet of cable, or turn the wireless on, I think the decision is simple!"

Well, yeah... but it's still not required. I can get a 100ft eithernet cable for about $10. Though I already put eithernet plugs in the wall of my house, so for me Wifi isn't required.

"- Sony did not make the Hard Drive and "Option" on their low end PS3. The low end 360, it is an OPTION, hence $99!"

So what? People that get the Arcade edition might not want the $99 HDD. That's the nice thing about choice. $279 is still $120+ cheaper than the PS3, which is good if your only planning on using as a game machine.

I don't care about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I bought my 360 for games; I don't care about buying movies. I'd rather save the money for games instead (which the 360 has more of). I use my HTPC for my media center (which is better than both the 360 and PS3); which is compatible with Blu-Ray if I ever do decide to use it.

"By your way of thinking, when a new console comes out, you just throw the old one and it's games in the closet."

Uhmmm, you mean your TV only has one connection for your PS3? What cheapass TV did you get? My reciever can connect everything too. I have my PSone, N64, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, PSP, PS3, Gamecube, Wii and HTPC all connected to my HDTV and still have room for more.

"Even if HD-DVD Lived, it would have made better sense to put in in the unit rather then a side-car."

Well except for peope like me that don't care about movies and would rather pay less for a 'gaming' machine. There's better things that can do either one better, like my HTPC.

Oh, BTW; you PS3 fanboy. Or should I say Blu-blood soldier.

"but its going to take time before the ps3 power is really going to be used."

Agreed, although the graphics has most likely already been maxed out shortly after launch. What else can we expect them to accomplish using a GPU that is a 2 generation old series 7 GeForce? :)

No because they would have had to pay Sony a Licensing Fee.

Branding your own console / product enable you to call the shots and make the $$$.

For the PS3 for instance, you have to buy the SDK from Sony for 10K. That is 10k that Sony made even if you don't make a game. Then the minute to do make it and market it, you still have to pay Sony since you want to put the PS3 Label on it.

MS was smart for making and getting into the Console market, I just don't like that they basically left all the original XBOX owners out there to dry when the 360 came out. It is typical MS that when they make the new product, to kill off all support for the old.

Still an "Option" which should not be.

How would you like to be that kid @ home that goes to play a game to find out "Hard Drive Required, please go spend $100 more!"

Meanwhile the PS3 at $50 less then what you would spend on that XBOX and HD combo comes with everything needed and the HD is 20GB more.

Fine, NVIDIA gave up. There are not other GPU makers out there?

MS could not approach ATI?

PS2's chip maker has not given up (Yet).

It is typical MS that when they make the new product, to kill off all support for the old.

I'd say that's pretty typical for *any* company.

If the warranties are up, why should they?

Yeah, they would not make the GPU anymore because the volumes were so small; no one was buying the first XBox as it was a total failure.

You do realize ati and nvidia use different chipsets right?

Who said anything about warranty?

If that is your Logic, PS2's that were up like mine which was bought in 2000 were up long ago, but I can still get support / buy game for it.

My car is 14 years old, the warranty was up in 1999 if I remember right, yet I can still get parts and service on it from the Manufacturer.

Your logic says Sony and other companies should just give up once a new product comes out. In this case the PS2 should just die since the PS3 is out. Yet I still see new games and such coming out for the PS2.

I am looking for CONVERGENCE!

I have enough things taking up space that could have been built into something else. For instance, my VOIP Linksys adapter... The Plug that powers it is larger the the box that hooks to the phone. They could have made it one box, bUt NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I have a Wireless Router, a Cable Modem and a VOIP Adapter. Three Devices, three Plus, why can't it be in one? It's not like it's Pretty or something I am going to show off to my friends.

A 360 with a HD (@ One Time) or a BR drive is it @ the core is still a high end game console, it just happens to be able to read a broader array of Media and it allows game makers to produce more content for the games. You buy that $60 game and it last 8 Hours. Chances are you had fun, but the fact that it was so short upsets you. Imagine if that game could have been 20 Hours of play and the only thing holding it back prior was the fact that developers ran out of Disc Space.

I am trying to HELP you all if you have not read into that yet.

Not buying a Hard Drive is nice, but since most games REQUIRE it anymore (http://www.pcworld.com/a...69-c,games/article.html) how would you like to be that kid that can't play the game he wants because Mom and Dad did not buy the 360 with a Hard Drive?

You know when CDROM drives were first introduced for the PC's / MAC most said they were to expensive and there was no need for them, where are we at now?

Chances are I am older then most of you and I remember the BETAMAX conflict. If you do your Homework, BETA tapes were a better media the VHS, but Sony said "We will not allow any adult based movies / material to be produced on our media". Then the adult industry wen to VHS, they did not care, that is why it failed.

Bottom line, if you allow a media to be put into homes weather it be HD or BR, whichever one gets the freedom to produce for it's customer, it will be a win-win for all. BETAMAX cut themselves off by not allowing the Adult Industry to use their Media. Back then, there was no Internet and like today, PORN is still the #1 Media purchased overall. In this case, if BR is allowed to be on the XBOX and PS3 (Which is is standard) it makes for a better and more compatible future for all gamers and movie buffs because it creates a Media Standard which is what happened to VHS and it succeeded tremendously for all.

Don't get me wrong, unless you have an HDTV then you really can't take advantage of the 360 or PS3 how they were meant to be.

I don't hate the 360 (Except for it's 16% Failure rate) It is not about Movies, it's about making a Standard.

PS. How did you come to:

"Uhmmm, you mean your TV only has one connection for your PS3? What cheapass TV did you get? My reciever can connect everything too. I have my PSone, N64, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, PSP, PS3, Gamecube, Wii and HTPC all connected to my HDTV and still have room for more."

By me saying:

"By your way of thinking, when a new console comes out, you just throw the old one and it's games in the closet."

That really makes no sense!

Yup!

If that is your Logic, PS2's that were up like mine which was bought in 2000 were up long ago, but I can still get support / buy game for it.

Games are made by Developers, not the console manufacturer. Try to stay on topic, eh? Any lack of new titles for the XBOX is a developer decision, not MSFT's.

My car is 14 years old, the warranty was up in 1999 if I remember right, yet I can still get parts and service on it from the Manufacturer.

Again, this is unrelated. Will Sony take back an original PS2? How about a PS1? If they *will* fix it, would it be cheaper to buy a PS3?

Your arguments are meaningless. Games != manufacturer support, nor is auto-support even *close* to being a related industry.

My logic is fine, you're absurd stretching to find ways around it laughable.

- Wireless is convenient for those that the Router is 100ft away. Lets see, run a 100+ feet of cable, or turn the wireless on, I think the decision is simple!

Your wireless works from 100 feet away? What brand do you use? Or maybe it's just all the interference from refineries in this area that makes that dam* near impossible...

Even if the only game that ever sold on the Xbox was Halo 2 then it wouldn't have been a complete failure.

Xbox was hardley a failure...

Do I really have to explain it to you?

Let me make it simple for you.

Here's what you said:
"By your way of thinking, when a new console comes out, you just throw the old one and it's games in the closet."

No, that's not my way of thinking because I have all my systems connected to my HDTV, not in my closet. And most TV's allow you to connect more than one thing to it.

Understand now?

Get an HTPC then.

Then you also realize the two are not compatible with one another either...

Ballmer is an idiot now all those fanboi's on the Sony side are second guessing buying that crappy console (POS3) and are thinking "hey if they offer the external drive why did i pay for substandard games instead of waiting for this? and have Gears of War glory instead of buggy games?"

"$400 bloray players until 2009" ARE YOU SERIOUS!!

For those new to the closing of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray format war, allow me to save you time and summarize comments:

BOOOOOOHHOOOHOHoHoHo! WAAAAaaaaAAAAH! WAAAAH! WAAA! WAAA! WAAA! BoOoOoOoOoOOOOOO! WAaAH! WAaaAAH WAAH WAAH WAAH! WAaAaAaAaaAaaAaaAAaaaAAA! WAaAaAaaaaH aaaaaAAAH hooohooohoOOOO!
*5 second breath*
BoOoOoOoOoOH-WHAaAaAAAAAAAAAAAaaaAaAAaAaAaaaAH! WAH!
WaH! Waaaaah! aaaAaAaAaAaah!*while screaming and kicking*

That about wraps it up. Good day and please, those posting, get it all out of your system. Don't waste your lives byaaatching over a dead topic.

Does anyone want a Blu-Ray addon for the XBox 360? It sounds like a kludge to me.

If I was Bill Gates, and I had any self respect at all, I would tell Sony to go straight to hell and put my support beind the next optical disc format that is right around the corner, at 250 to 500GB, which will absolutely blow Blu-ray right out of the water.

If Bill Gates had any integrity, that is what he would do. Money talks though, so we won't see this happen...but it sure would be good to see if it did.

Bill Gates hasn't had much to do with the running of the company for years. The reins are with that shyster accountant Ballmer.

And it shows.

If you was Bill Gates we wouldn't talk about him.

uh, 25GB and 50GB Blu-ray discs are more common, but 100GB is out there if you need, and TDK has developed a 200GB Blu-ray disc.
so if you're saying only 250GB, that's not much difference compared to a Blu-ray.

In addition, BD-R LTH should be a LOT more cheaper. Closer to the DVD prices we have now.

Holographic discs with hundreds of layers capable of storing 500GB and 1000GB won't get mass marketed until 2012-2014 when the UHDV 32MegaPixel standard will start replacing HDTV and the H.265 codec will have been finalized as well.

Let me try your time machine.

lol ^^^

You would think after reading a site like betanews for so long he would figure out that technology is not anywhere near that predictable. I am not even going to attempt to say what is going to happen that far in the future. There is some pretty amazing stuff being developed out there.

BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

while toshiba and microsoft"move on" I'm stuck with a $175.00 hd dvd drive thats 2 month old and now pretty much useless. Thank you very much.

It still plays hd-dvd (which will have very cheap movies) and regular dvds, so just because the format war is over doesn't mean the player stops working.

Why?

Did it suddenly stop playing existing HD DVD discs?

Did it stop upconverting SD-DVD?

No?

Then you're full of s***, my friend.

I cannot believe that people could be so STUPID as to get wrapped up in ANOTHER proprietary Sony "psuedo-standard", especially one bereft of backward compatibility and typically priced Sony-style.

Santayana applies:

Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Beta
Minidisc
ATRAC
SACD

Doesn't anybody freakin' learn?

And no, Microsoft won't ever waste their time on a Sony format. Insiders will already be aware that the company has absolutely no love for Sony, beginning with the memory stick debacle years ago where Sony changed the design of their product well after submitting specs to MS for inclusion in their OS of the day and when confroented with that essentially stiffed MS with "well, I guess you have a problem then, don't you". With MS attempting to gain ground in Sony markets (consoles and entertainment) with all the tenaciousness of a pitbull in heat, the chances of any accord there are slim and forget it and Slim has already left town.

As he indeed should.

When Sony tried to defeat HD DVD with their expensive, copy protection plagued Blu-Ray, I laughed and said "How stupid does Sony think we are?". Well, Sony was right, we are stupid.

Roj,
Priceless, and so eloquently put. The only way MSFT will use a Sony proprietary system, is if they re-engineer it and call it their own as they are wont to do.
"with all the tenaciousness of a pitbull in heat".
Quite brilliant.

Roj, Blu-ray is no more proprietary than HD DVD was, in fact reasonable minds would consider it less proprietary because it had support of the vast majority of the industry. DVD and HD DVD were standardized in the DVD Forum. Blu-ray was standardized in the Blu-ray Disc Association. Both are non-profit industry associations seeking to develop and promote a specification for the benefit of their members. Both are open to anyone who chooses to join (and antes up the similar membership fees).

Nothing proprietary about Blu-ray whatsoever.

Even though this is yesterdays news I like the fact that Betanews has a much more comprehensive report than most other blogs.

I will make it plain and simple there is no way, that Microsoft will make blue ray equipped Xbox 360's. Maybe in the next version of the Xbox, for now though it will just be a optional accessory.

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