Why do I feel raped when we talk about HD-DVD? Is it because I bought one and feel duped? The good thing is that I only paid $98.00 for it. There is no way I would pay $400.00 and $30.00 for a movie, that would be insane. I can buy regular DVDs for $5.00 every Sunday at best buy. I prefer HD over Blu Ray, and I have both (BR for $100.00 with new TV) so I know what I am talking about, I am not ignorant to how they both work. I have both HD and BR and the only movies I own on either one are the 5 free ones that came with them. I still will not pay more than $15.00 for one. There are over 400 HD-DVD movies out there and they are coming down to my price range. I will build up my collection at bargain prices. I just read that some of the movie studios (Warner Bros.) will continue to make HD-DVD movies as long as people are buying them. As of right now there are well over 1 million HD-DVD players sold in the US alone, that is a lot of money to not to go after, especially when the profit margin from HD-DVD is far greater than that on BLu-Ray. I also believe LG is continuing to sell and make HD-DVD/BR players. I hope so. I do not have much hope. At least I know I am not alone, from all that I read on the Internet, there are a lot of other just like me who feel cheated.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm very happy with my dvd's that I play with my upconverting player.

Call me when you hit $99.

They need to lower down the price.

or ask the China manfaturer to make mass player.

Less than one year, they can produce a $ 99 player if Sony give the permission.

otherwise we will need 3-5 years maybe

I fall on the floor laughing.....
what a joke!
I will buy one in 5 years for $89......
then they will have some movies for rent!

And in the meantime, my local Best Buy still has the same amount of shelf space reserved for HD DVD discs as they do for Blu-ray releases... and HD DVD players are still selling out, with Blu-ray standalone players on the shelves by the dozen. Also, they've placed a stack of PS3 consoles in the home audio / video section with the DVD players. That system has a severe identity crisis. Very fitting, actually. With the current lackluster selection of games, that's a trojan horse where they forgot to include the horse.

How pathetic you Toshiba employees, resellers and fanatics are, really. Get a clue, it's over. HD-DVD is going to disappear and no one will remember about it, the general public won't even know it ever existed and everyone is going to buy Blu-Ray hardware and discs which are getting cheaper month after month.
Also, the PS3 now begins outselling both the Wii and XBox360,so...

So by your logic, the general public completely forgot about Betamax ever existing, right?

That is what happened. In fact the general public was unaware that Betamax got used by tv networks, for example. The general public knew VHS only.

I'll agree with you...to a point.

Yes, the average consumer was unaware of Beta being used in the TV industry; however, the format wasn't forgotten. It, along with other proprietary Sony formats, were a big reason that people were hesitant to adopt blu in the first place.

It's called credibility, and it's something that Sony based (and backed) formats are sorely lacking in.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that there's no mention of how much local storage the BDP-S350 will have?

I was under the impression that 1gb of local storage, AS WELL AS an ethernet port were required for profile 2.0 players.

Aww, c'mon... everyone knows that firmware updates fix everything, including magically adding additional hardware. At least that's what the Blu Bloods have wanted us to believe on numerous occasions. :)

Well, they'll certainly looking good... on the shelves.

What, you mean no competition from HD-DVD hasn't brought Blu-ray prices down? You don't say, I'm so very very shocked. [extreme dripping sarcasm]

"The S350 will ship with Blu-ray Profile 1.1, also known as BonusView, but will include an Ethernet port so it can be upgraded to Profile 2.0 -- or BD-Live -- when the new firmware is ready."

That certainly doesn't sound like a certainty that it will be able to be ugpraded, only that it's possible.

Considering that the earliest, most expensive players are becoming obsolete and unable to play *some* content, I have my doubts about trusting anyone in the group.

Not everyone can get broadband access so discs will play a part but I really don't want to be parting $400 for something that might not play tomorrow's content. I might as well buy an HD DVD player at a discount now. It's just as safe a bet as current Blu-Ray models.

Discs will play a part ? What are you talking about? Everything that is on the disc which doesn't require remote authentication and updates will play with no issues. The main movie will always play and that's what matters to 98.5% of customers anyway.

Funniest comment of the year so far:

"These new 250 to 500 GB optical disc technologies are in development now and are at most a year away from shipping, if that. Oh, and they will be going for essentially the same price as what Blu-ray players are at."

LOL....

PS. Anyone got a problem seem to mess up replies on this board? Replies seem to get posted as new comments.

But it's still a Sony. I hate Sony. I'll wait for HD downloads to improve.

Wow thats nice set of features, too bad for most people they mean absolutely d***.

There is no way the "average joe" is going to buy a PLAYER at $400 and buy movies for $30 a piece. Somebody is smoking crack...

It's Sony, what did you expect? They still think they're in the same league as companies such as Apple, who can charge enormous premiums because of their brand name. Sadly, Sony is mistaken. Their name isn't worth the cheap Chinese manufactured plastic it's printed on anymore.

Oh? I thought Sony is the Japanese word for Apple?

As the article says - still not consumer-friendly prices. Until the media is comparable to DVD pricing, and the players drop below $100 bucks, I doubt they're going appear in any but the most die-hard-Sony-fan homes. Even then, a PS3 for the kids first is more likely. :p

I'm looking forward to a cheap Blu-Ray writer for the PC though. Looks like it'll be 2012 before they (and the media) become reasonably priced, however. :p

Long before that happens, the follow-up disc technology to Blu-ray (read "replacement") will already be long since out on the market and will have rendered Blu-ray essentially obsolete.

These new 250 to 500 GB optical disc technologies are in development now and are at most a year away from shipping, if that. Oh, and they will be going for essentially the same price as what Blu-ray players are at.

Lots of articles out on the web on these new ultraviolet laser, multi-layer drives and discs now if you search around a little.

Holographic discs won't be released to the market as replacement for Blu-Ray discs until 2011-2012 at the earliest.
The UHDV 32MegaPixels standard which is designed to replace the old HDTV 2MegaPixels one is planned for a 2012-2014 release. The H.265 codec needed to reduce to an half the bitrate compared to H.264 for massive UHDV content should get finalized by 2012 and it's still in its early stages.

Expect Sony to push the 4-layer 100GB Blu-Ray disc version instead, which should be fully compatible with current hardware thru firmware updates.

"Expect Sony to push the 4-layer 100GB Blu-Ray disc version instead, which should be fully compatible with current hardware thru firmware updates."

Right...sort of like the firmware updates that will make current players compatible with BD-Live...

oh wait firmware updates won't help current players...oh well...

The majority of people buying Blu-Ray discs simply bought a PS3 which can be upgraded to profile 2.0 and probably even beyond that in the future. Only a few early adopters will have to buy a new player if they absolutely want updated online content.
It's still a matter of a few thousand people worldwide that absolutely want interactive/online updated content. The majority of people simply doesn't care about any additional feature. Even less than 2% of customers actually watch special features, making of and such on DVD discs already, so go figure...

The source of your statistics is of great interest to me.

Who would have thought that this would be coming from the same company that produced the BetaMax format way longer than they should have.

I guess we can all rely on Sony now to fulfill and set the price for all our HD needs!

It's a sad moment in time when gamers have decided the format to move forward with...

Studios decided, not gamers.

"Now that there is only one format, let the gouging begin. Competition is good for consumers."

LOL, another person that fails to understand basic concepts...

How can this be gouging, whern they are more fully featured, and CHEAPER than it's predecessor??

The Sony S300 is only $379 at the moment, so the price will be higher than previous models.

"LOL, another person that fails to understand basic concepts..."

This coming from someone who fails to properly reply to a comment. Ironic...

LOL, some people have problems getting to grips with basic concepts..

"Sony's new Blu-ray players feature-packed, but still high priced"

It's only high priced, when you compare it to the insanely price dumped HD DVD players from Toshiba. These players to anyone with any ounce of common sense, are actually very nicely priced for Sony kit.

Not really. If the standalone Blu-ray player is $400 and the 40-GB PS3 is $400. What is the consumer most likely to buy if they want Blu-ray?

Sony knows this, and it wants to push potential Blu-ray customers to the PS3. Then it can sell them controllers, games, downloads, and more. Sony is smart -- evil, but smart.

$400 also isn't nicely priced when compared to DVD players, which is what consumers will be doing.

So the world doesn't need comparison??

Don't know about you, but a HD DVD player that you bought in early 2006 does exactly the same thing, at the same price, as a Blue-ray player that you buy in mid-2008 + you have to wait months before having profile 2.0

"Sony is smart -- evil, but smart."

Well, well, well. The truth comes out doesn't it Nate? Very telling.

Everyone here accusing you of hating Sony and of your articles being heavily influenced by your hatred of Sony ARE true. I am shocked... oh wait, no I'm not.

I'LL admit I hate $ony.

Calling a smart business move evil doesn't mean I hate Sony... that's absurd. Apple's lockdown of the digital music industry is also evil in the same sense -- a smart business move that's not necessarily in the best interest of consumers. But I own both Sony and Apple products.

I even still have MiniDiscs lying around here somewhere.

Keep trying though :)

Second that.

Ahhh the age old cop out of a play of words.

So below us people have said straight out, they hate sony. i ask you, Nate, do you hate sony?

If he owns Sony products, I would say he doesn't hate them.

Well, I own two Sony 27" Trinitrons, two PlayStations, a PlayStation 2, and VHS player... for the most part, all relatively good products.

However, I do indeed hate them as a corporate entity for far too many reasons to list.

I cannot say that I will never own another Sony product or one based on Sony-developed technology, as I will most likely make the move to Blu-ray sometime this next holiday season when prices on really good full-featured players are more reasonable.

What a nonsense and you contradict yourself. The PS3 right now it's so cheap and the best Blu-Ray player around, there is no reason for not buying it if you want to enjoy high bitrate encoded HDTV movies.

There was no contradiction whatsoever. The fact that I own and actually enjoy some Sony products has no relevance on the fact that I have a severe dislike for Sony as a corporation.

You consistently speak of this potential for higher bitrate encodes of Blu-ray titles, yet there is no evidence of them actually producing titles that have higher encodes or offer differences in quality over any HD DVD release. As has been repeatedly stated, the space on almost every Blu-ray release is tragically wasted and underutilized.

I personally have high hopes for future releases encoded with bitrates that realize the full potential of the format. You may feel that it is already being done, but the fact that almost all titles utilize 16-bit 48 kHz 5.1 audio (uncompressed or not) which you seem to consider is "high-definition" is quite frankly laughable, and I feel sorry for you.

As it stands right now, PCM on the vast majority of Blu-ray releases are uncompressed offerings of the same mediocre multi-channel audio we've had on DVD for over a decade. When we start seeing releases in 24-bit 96 kHz (you know... true high-definition, which Blu-ray media should have plenty of space for), then I'll dig up some interest in your misguided opinions.

That was a very solid response.

Now that there is only one format, let the gouging begin. Competition is good for consumers.

I wont support a Sony monopoly of HD movies on optical disc. Sorry, it's Netflix rentals only for me. My way, Sony gets shafted out of a movie sale every time I rent one. If it's a Sony or Warner release and I really like the movie, I'll rent it again on standard DVD and copy it, and put the .iso on the torrents just for spite.

Ditto, I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and I still watch Lord of the Rings on regular DVD and it still looks awesome. I will never even pay $19.00 for a BLu-Ray DVD. I will also rent regular dvd instead of buying. Those who think Sony won the war are the real fools. They bought the war with a lot of money. Who do you think has to pay for that? Thats right "YOU DO!"

Not really, Sony still gets the money when you rent on Blu-Ray. A Rental license is $1000's for a movie and a percentage of the sale goes to Sony. Do you think that renting would be allowed if it lowered the income of a business? Businesses only allow things to happen that benifit them. Nothing is offered to the consumer that doesnt in some way benifit the company more then the consumer in the long run.

Excellent post. Very well said. Good observations here...and accurate too.

$1000 for a movie license? I guess they don't want people to rent. I can see a lawsuit from BB and Netflix soon.

It is such a drag to listen to all these BR fans, when in reality, they are duped by big corporations who continue to take us over the coals and as consumers we continue to take it up the butt. JUST SAY NO! Watch how fast they drop prices. Look at the PS3, it was an anchor on Sony until they dropped to $400.00. Imagine how those first PS3 buyers feel now.

BLU-RAY or HD-DVD, the next media gen is a war in the clouds and will be ignored for any other than geeks for maybe 1 more year or so until prices are an "attraction factor" too. But that, coming from Sony, is something that will need time.

Regular people have enough with their DVDs already, "why more" they ask? They don't bite the "evolution" bait if they already have enough. It's all of those people you have to convince, not our niche of nerds.

Wow, and to think that consumers were the ones that picked the higher costing format to win. Its obviusly what everyone wanted! Sony, please release a $700 unit, we love higher prices!

When I see cars lined up at gas stations that are charging double what the station across the street is, that is when I'll believe consumers were the ones who picked Blu-Ray.

If consumers did not pick Blu-Ray, why did Blu-Ray outsell HD-DVD every day since it came out?

Need it explained *again*?? (not really surprised)

Because they had a PS3 and it was convenient.

It had *nothing* to do with which format was better or more consumer friendly.

Agreed. Consumers didn't pick Blu-ray nor was Blu-ray chosen by the movie studios with the consumer in mind.

And yet again the BRD fanboys are here running off at the mouth. I'd like to know how much Sony is giving you all for commission! Oh, that's right, nothing--nada--zilch! [ sarcasm] Well if I was getting that much I'd wave the Blu-ray flag and get in arguments on a daily basis over the issue too![ /sarcasm]

Yet another excellent post. I couldn't agree more. Very well stated. I agree 100%.

You know, I have a really hard time swallowing the stats and reports that everyone quotes saying that Blu-ray had outsold HD DVD by such a wide margin.

I worked at a Best Buy for six months and I never ONCE saw a single day, week or month that ANY manufacturer's Blu-ray player ever outsold Toshiba's DVD players. It just didn't happen - NOT ONCE!

I don't know where those stats came from but I just find it highly curious that over the course of six months working at one of the largest big-box electronics retailers in the world, all I ever saw was evidence to the exact contrary of these reports, articles and statistics.

Real consumers bought a HD DVD standalone player or HD DVD 360 drive because they wanted the superior format. (by superior, I mean features and everything packed in.)

Blue-ray disks sold better because there was a trojan called PS3. By default, a lot of people who bought a PS3 for gaming purposes might get a copy of blueray movie instead of the DVD version, thus adding to the total. Since October, Blueray has been EXTREMELY aggressive with their 2 for 1 and 20$ promotion, which tipped the scale of next-gen movie sales toward blue-ray. As gamers who own a PS3, it's very tempting to Buy One Get One deals.

That's because it probably never happened. Well except for that week that BLU outsold RED by 93%.

I think everyone always reference the disc sales. 10.5 million PS3's, and people are bound to buy Bluray movies for it. Once PS3 hit the shelves, HDDVD never really had a chance.

Funny, but if you never read an article and just watched the actual players that went out the door at the store I worked in, you would think that HD DVD won the war and Blu-ray lost.

If you just went by what you saw go out the door at the store I worked at, you would be shocked to be told that HD DVD was the format that actually lost the "format war".

It makes me wonder how may other stores that would be true at as well?

I understand you have personally observed it at your store... But that doesn't really say much.

The 2-1, 3-1 Blu sales over Red have been very well documented and reported by third party companys.

Oh, I fully realize that my own personal observation in one store, in one city, is entirely statisticly insignificant. That goes without saying.

I just find it personally very curious and also quite interesting, especailly when you factor in that the sales reps that worked in my store were entirely agnostic when it came to the "format war". They didn't push any customers one way or another when it came to High Def DVD player purchases. They let customers draw their own conclusions and make their own choices.

I don't think I understand where you are going with this then??? If you realize its statistically insignificant, that what are you trying to say?

Apparently, consumers (other than you) chose convenience over cost.

Just because they chose for criteria other than your own, that does not mean that the relatively few early adopters made no choice.

Your arrogance would be astounding if it weren't so obvious that you're just bitter from the sting.

By the way, I don't own a BDP of any type. Just pointing out the flaws in your argument.

If Sony doesn't do it, the competition will drop prices, so Blu-ray players almost certainly will fall into the $200 range either by this holiday season or shortly thereafter. I'm old enough to remember when the Sony Walkman (think iPod that plays tapes) was $500 and now they are about $20 and come with FM/AM radio and are smaller. All you have to do is look at the first-gen iPods and see how much more drive space you now have for a lot less money, and Apple hardly has what can be called direct competition. Sony has and will have a lot more competition with Blu-ray and it'll be in the sweet spot of $200 by this time next year. Movies will also fall in line at about $19, for all but the latest releases, now that the format wars are over and market forces can begin in earnest.

Ummm....yeah. Does the term "a day late and a dollar short" come to mind for anyone here?

Funny. Blu-ray wins the "format war" and then, weeks later, announces players, that STILL won't ship for several more months, that are the equivilent of what the loser of the format war has had shipping for over a year now.

You all realize Sony owns at most 30% of blu ray as an intellectual property, right? Sony is just the most outspoken supporter, but they aren't the only ones that make players. With that said, it'll be competition amongst play manufacturers that will drive prices down.

Sony owns the majority of critical patents. Just as the one holding the most stock in a public company has the controlling interest, so does Sony in Blu-Ray.

In that case Panasonic must control Blu-ray, since they hold more patents and get more in licensing fees than Sony.

The patents they hold are mostly ancillary and not critical to the format.

Did you miss that part?

It's all a game.
They will strategically drop the price of these players in time for the holiday season to generate sales volume.
It's the continuous sale of the discs (or games in the case of PS3) that generates the valuable source of profit.

Well considering the $500 player won't come out till the fall right before the holiday season...it's hard to imagine them dropping the price a few months later.

Although, it's not impossible...apple dropped their iphone price by $200 2 months into the products life.

I am not sure how far Blu-Ray will go. I have one and the only reason I have one is that my new TV came with one for $100.00. So far, I am not that impressed, I also own HD-DVD player ($98.00) and am saddened by the news that they will no longer be supported. I am not a big Toshiba or Sony fan, but a big fan of new technology. Both players have slow load times, Blu-Ray takes twice as long. I also noticed that Blu-Ray disk scratch so much easier than those on HD-DVD and regular DVD's do. I love the picture quality on both players, but would not buy either one for more than $200.00. I still do not think that the upgrade from DVD from HD DVD is as great as it was from VCR to DVD. I also will not buy a HD or BLU-Ray disk for $$$$ range that they sell for in stores. I will only rent online, and it usually takes 3 to 4 times longer to get the movies, I end up getting regular DVDs if I want to see a movie bad enough. I would still rather buy 3 or 4 DVDs for the price of one HD or BLu-Ray movie. I do not think Sony will ever get back what they had to pay off for winning the HD war, and in the end digital downloads will most likely be the big winner. Enjoy it while it last, and I hope the consumer will force them to drive the prices down. WE HAVE THE POWER! DO NOT BUY UNTIL THE PRICE IS RIGHT.

Well Sony won
So now we paid the price for that

I am a PS3 owner and I am blown away by the picture quality of both the games and the few BR Movies I have bought, but the high cost of a simple player will drive it to die.

People's pockets are tight right now especially because of the cost of Oil. Everything is up in price and it all gets passed down to the consumer. Some people can't afford Milk right now and People are not going to pay $400 - $700 for a DVD Player that is just going to give them a few more pixels.

For the people who have $$$ they will not B*tch, but most of us are not in that class.

I could see if the players hovered in the $200 - $300 range overerall, but if you are going to spend $400, you might as well get a PS3 which will give you the BR Playback, be a game console, and Internet port and and overall media center.

Players going for $400, so you are telling me that your cost to make the player is in the $200 - $250 range??? I can understand the cost with the PS3 only from the point is does have a Processor in it which is the main cost of the item.

Granted, BR won the HD Format battle, but with Bandwidth going up @ a cheap rate (FIOS and Cable) VOD and HDVOD (Video on Demand and HD Video on Demand) will kill off the overall need to buy any DVD, Standard or HD.

Blu-Ray (Sony) will always be high priced. It goes without saying.

Once I see Profile 2.0 as an actual reality then I'll consider buying something like this but with Sony's track record I wouldn't trust them with a single penny.

I think I'll stick with Profile 0.0 and save a whole lot of money. I'm sorry but Blu-Ray is a yawnfest to me when with that same ethernet port I can download an HD movie at a much less total cost.

Whatever the features they pack into them NOBODY (i mean, yeah a few peoples might) will buy them at those prices.