Why make it open source? Besides it's theirs and they made it, if they don't want you to see it then that is the end of the fight unless you know a thing or two about reverse-engineering.

I like the comment above about Linux driven pencils, what's scary is it sounds like something they might try. Or maybe that new electric razor, always wanted to run a mail server out of my bathroom chrager.

The majority of you are clueless into what this guy is 'REALLY' getting at, which is sad. I for one am all for the project. What you're all experiencing right now are 'threatless' bioses which are for more the less, direct control of the hardware in your system. What to enable, what to disable, how much and how fast.
Now, lets imagine another type of Bios. One that controls 'security', one that controls 'rights', one that is able to monitor licenses of all of your software (music, movies, programs, etc). You all know this can very easily be done. We all know that there are hardware antivirus and firewall solutions and that licensing solutions are not far off.
Anyone getting the drift?
The real threat behind a closed bios is that the user is not in full control of their own equipment. The day a bios is released that reads your licenses and is able to prevent your video card from showing one of your movies or prevents a sound card from playing your song, or prevents an application from running at the core level, is the day you same ones calling this guys ideas 'stupid' and 'dumb' will be crying like babies while the rest of us able to download and update our 'OpenBios' are able to watch and listen and run what we want to on our PCs.

yes , yes ,yes. big brother is more then watching. your movies wont play it phones home, etc. right and when these open bios are hand wacked to death, i hope there real pro programmers are in the tech support of each motherboard there is to help out when the open bios system goes into effect as there will be so many different off shoots of a given bios, only a pro can then get the open bios uploaded so it can be uncoded to allow it to be repaired to a workable bios again. face it, a novice with just a bare operating system such as windows can foul it up to the point tech support at times just directs the user to ineffect reinstall and start over.

Sadly I think some of you are missing the point. With the good side is also the bad. Once it becomes public knowledge how the BIOS is updated then you invite in the hackers. I know I know, you're saying the good will most likely out weigh the bad but lets be realistic, you know the world we live in.

So, you think you should remain at the mercy of AMI and the like?
Have you seen anything about the 'secure computing initative"?
The BIOS will be an integral part of owning the software and documents on your system.

Don't have a license for that music? Is simply isn't going to play. The hardware itself will not allow it. No more recording a CD as you play it to get aruond DRM for example.

Didn't pay the monthly fee for Office 2008? Guess whose docs no longer open.

Want to say this file can only be opened in your corporate HQ? No problem.

You might want to read up on what he is talking about before you decide you have the answers...
Not hard to see that soon your programs and your data will be locked to one specific machine and there will be nothing you can do about it.

Without an open source BIOS, it will be impossible to defeat DRM at the machine level.

Microsoft NGSCB Business Unit General Manager John Manferdelli provided a first look at the new technology, which employs a new security computing chip, along with design changes to a computer's central processing unit (CPU), chipsets, and input and output devices, such as keyboards and the computers screen. With NGSCB, applications will run in a protected memory space that is highly resistant to software tampering and interference.

OR

"Palladium" is a new hardware and software architecture. This architecture will include a new security computing chip and design changes to a computer’s central processing unit (CPU), chipsets, and peripheral devices, such as keyboards and printers. It also will enable applications and components of these applications to run in a protected memory space that is highly resistant to tampering and interference.

The PC-specific secret coding within "Palladium" that makes stolen files useless on other machines is physically and cryptographically locked within the hardware of the machine. This means software attacks can’t expose these secrets. Even if a sophisticated hardware attack were to get at them, these core system secrets would only be applicable to the data within a single computer and could not be used to develop hacks on other computers.

Oooh the doom and gloom. This will be the end of computing, dear Lord save us.

Come on man, don't buy into that crap. As it is, the PC industry sucks big time: viruses, malware, adware, spyware, piracy, multiplayer cheating, cracks, hacks... NGSCB (aka Palladium) promises to take care of the said problems.

And hey, if works even half as well as it's advertised, then I'm all for it.

I hate it when the system does a double post...

There's a reason BIOSes are released by the manufacturer and THAT IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE DESIGNED THE MOTHERBOARD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Is this guy stupid? Richard Stallman obviously knows diddly squat about hardware.

And what is the rant about it being OS limited? Err...HOW? So if you run Linux etc you may have to use one of the many free OSS utils (usually included in any distro) to create a bootable DOS floppy from which you can install the BIOS.

A far better thing would be to have manufacturers do like ABIT has and have an option on bootup to run a flash program which allows you to load the .bin file from a floppy.

Looking at the comments about OpenBIOS and LinuxBIOS it seems to be yet another "Must use Linux at all costs" even though its pointless. Next they'll be coming out with Linux driven pencils....

computershack said:
"Is this guy stupid?"

No, he's not stupid. He's a very smart man that with a cult-like following (Slashdot et al), and happens to have extreme beliefs, both political and technical.

That said, his followers will lead you to believe there is a fine line between geniuses and madmen. I happen to believe Richard Stallman is the latter.

Do you realize this could cause some serious problems? If you mess up your bios, you can't fix it unless you replace the bios ROM chip. If there could be a method to flash the bios that is independant of the BIOS functionality, however, then by all means...but then bios viruses will come around, and in the bios you CAN change settings that can cause physical damage to the computer--but in that case the good seems to outweigh the bad.

I have a crappy Asrock m266a motherboard, that has the orignal bois 1.3 in it the latest is 1.9 but I cant flash the dam thing because I dont't have a floppy drive installed. So I created a bootable cd/dvd to get the dam thing in dos to try to flash off the cd/dvd and even my hardrive. and it still dosn't flash. I do belive that in the asrflash.exe tells the rom to only flash off a floppy drive nothing else? so open source would allow me to tell the asrflash.exe to flash off another drive?

Dumbest Idea ever. Plus it all seems like a big AMD endorsement ad.

What's the point of releasing the source code of the BIOS ? What is he a dumba** ? He can dump it and decompile it if he wants.

It's just as dumb of and idea as yours is "Plus it all seems like a big AMD endorsement ad."

I think the point is either make BIOS upgradable to all (not just limiting to your installed OS). Stallman has an Open Source solution as he is founder of free software, so I can see why he would slant this way.

The other solution - keep it close source, but release an update to every platform. As much as I like Open Source, I'd prefere a BIOS independant of your installed OS. When Linux takes over and you or I still choose to use Windows, we wouldn't want to be left in the dark by BIOS updates being released to only Linux.

Maybe an update that will be able to burn to a bootable CD. It will load it's own OS and update the BIOS, making which OS you have installed irrelevant.

Source is not half of how people find flaws in programs, it is how they fix them. Being open source will not make it more vulnerable. Both closed and open source apps have security issues, a fix in the programming (open or closed) fixes the issue - that is why, often it is hard to counteract a fix and continue the security threat.

programming is done by humans, and you are only human if you make mistakes.

The BIOS upgrade IS AVAILABLE TO ALL.

What a dork!

Whine whine whine... Give me a break. I tell ya...these free software people are just going too far. Next thing they will want cars to be free because hey....everyone needs transportation.

If you don't like the closed BIOS....don't buy a computer idiot.

Deal with it.

ya, and next thing you know, when cost of gas goes up again, they will wine about those prices too. If you dont like the price of gas, dont buy a car.

And if you don't like the way the world works, kill yourself.

The reason Intel doesn't open up their BIOS code is so no one can bypass the code in the motherboards that says you cannot overclock Intel chips to get more preformance out of it. This way you HAVE to buy a new chip to get more speed. Also for all anyone knows the Processor Serial Number feature still exists. It existed before the Pentium III but they just didn't tell you about it.

My point is maybe he's a crackpot but the line between genius and insanity is razor thin. Without people like him trying to change things for the better we're just goign to get shafted by the corporations.

Not a good idea "Scary Guy" to tell people to "kill yourself" even in a joking manner.

Please...

You're right and I'm sorry, but I was trying to prove a point. Which basically is that if you don't like the way something works, you shouldn't just give in and accept it. Either loby for them to change it or change it yourself if it is at all possible.

Yeah I work tech support and yes I know all of the headaches that go along with users who can't figure out how to use their computers. If they messed with their BIOS and turn their computer into trash there are ways (unless the hardware is damaged) of recovering it. One thing I do like about Intel is that they have a rescue disk option that you can download and pop in. Reflashes the BIOS and fixes everything.

Let me just say this though. If I wanted a computer which I had no control over how it worked and it just did what it was supposed to I'd get a Mac. I use PC's because you have more control over how they operate.

The -average- computer users know ~just~ enought to get by, maybe an OPEN BIOS would be a good idea for a POWERUSER or the like... but I deal with people who BARELY know how to turn ON a computer during the course of a day.. and you want to OPEN UP the BIOS code to these people?!? these people are dangerous enough JUST by running windows... don't let them try to re-write their bios, screw it up, and end up with a $800++ paperweight, and then start calling anyone that will listen, and CRY about it... and blame it on anyone but themselves... Open BIOS ~still~ sound like a GOOD idea?

good start adm._kirk. let's face it. what's BAD about a closed bios? first , when an upgrade is needed, you download it FREE and use the software provided FREE by the vender and install it. also, the bios is designed for a given motherboard not every motherboard made, so there are differences in bios of the same brand. as pointed out the avg person wouldn't have the faintest idea what to do with the open code it they looked at it. this clown sounds like another microsoft hater. wither or not one likes gates and microsoft, one must admit because of pressures to make computers more user friendly, a lot of advances because of ms has made it a lot easier.

Open Source means the source is available, not that you have to compile it or change the programming to get it to work. You have an option of downloading/viewing the source. Think of it as an addition to the update you download, just a little info file.

Like I've said, It's not open source that's needed, it's a way to apply the update without depending on your installed OS, like Linux. Just make a boot disk option that will do the install, that's all that's needed.

A BIOS update is a chuffing binary file for Petes sake. And unless you have a very indepth knowledge about how that particular motherboard was designed then tampering with it is stupid.

Still, if enough FOSS muppets tinker with their BIOSes then maybe the end result will mean having to read less of this stupidity.

Who is he to say what is ethical and unethical?

If software is not open source then it is evil. Heh. Stallman needs a reality check.

Think about it -- here the world is suffering from wars, crimes, people are dying of cancer, AIDS is destroying millions in Africa, China is suppressing political opponents and free speech, the list goes on...yet Stallman rears his ugly head and tells us what? Not to use software that doesn't bear his license of choice; to do so would be 'unethical'. Hot damn, folks, this man is truely rooted in reality.

See http://www.softpanorama....mages/saintignucius.jpg for a portrait of this great genius of our time.

JudahGabriel: You state "Think about it -- here the world is suffering from wars, crimes, people are dying of cancer, AIDS is destroying millions in Africa, China is suppressing political opponents and free speech, the list goes on...yet Stallman rears his ugly head and tells us what?..." Lets see, all this crap is happening, and what are people like polititians doing? They are trying to put into place stupid laws to screw us over? What exactly are you doing? You, amongst others that have posted, are blowing smoke out because you do not understand Open Source. You probably don't know much about ethics either.

I'm not talking about politicians, or you, or me, I'm talking about this man that keeps whining about how software that doesn't use his license is somehow unethical. That is something none of us have done.

Aside from "what have you done?" are you even arguing anything? Open source? Richard Stallman is not the open source movement, in fact, he is a hinderance to OSS by promoting an almost religious fanatacism about ... get this, a software license. Yes A LICENCE. Hello? Step back and look what he's saying. It's a software license. Yes, he's b****ing about a software license. Hahah. God must've looked down and said, "I'm gonna make a nutjob to spread confusion and anger for software developers", and there was Richard.

On a rainy day, I'd ignore any old fool that has such extreme, fanatical views. Heck I equate him with a cult leader, with slashbots as his followers. However, there's just one problem: He's also condemning anyone who doesn't use his license by saying such software as 'unethical'. Unethical? Bwahahahahaha, excuse me for a second, I just laughed so hard there I almost drained my sinuses. If there is anyone on God's green earth even remotely buying this 'non-GPL'd software is evil' idea, I've got a bridge to sell you...

as much as it is a good idea to quote him "Stallman berated vendors for keeping the commands necessary to update BIOS a secret". Id rather not have those open too much, all we need now is more ppl writing virues to corrupt the bios

There are manufacturers like MSI that let you update mainboard BIOS for free via the web. Other companies can do the same with various hardware. I would want my company's hardware to be at it's best. And there is some software available that lets you re-write parts of BIOS too. I just wouldn't want a lot of infested BIOS software floating around. I thinks a SDK for BIOS developers would be a very good thing. Then freeware writers could develop and release upgrades too. Intel does need to be taken down a notch for manipulating the market and trying to stiffle any competition just like Microsoft. I personally hope they get caught like MS did. A couple hundred million dollar fine would certainly help level the playing field.

your right the reason we dont tell you people things like this is you will either screw it up and/or create more problems. and why would major labels waste their time to go to open source just because some crackhead wants them too?