There'll definitely be thousands of new jobs when Vista comes out because there'll be so many bugs to fix!!!

Considering the Corporate version of Vista "features" the insane Activation and WGA thing it will cause losses and not revenues to all the Companies/Corporations using it. Managing Vista in complex scenarios will be way harder than today with XP-SP2 and Win2K3-SP1(R2).

hmmm reading all these posts... Microsoft bashing seems to have become fashionable and "cool" these days...

well dont put every one in the same bag, there will always be bashing. i for one like microsoft products, but that dosnt mean i cant be critical of products, views and PR.

I might as well put linux boxes in. If they have to learn soo much new stuff, it might as well work too.

A MICROSOFT SPONSORED STUDY... HAHAH

...come back when you can cite independent study results. You make me laugh MS...

No matter how much I try, I simply cannot get myself to like Vista. I had the RTM installed for a couple weeks, prior to that I had the beta. I love most of Microsoft products, but Vista feels like it was rushed out by a bunch of interns.

It's just too clunky. It feels like there's always something popping up or getting in your face - it's the most vocal OS I've ever used. The new (file) explorer interface is just plain ugly. I like being able to add favorite folders to explorer, but beyond that it's just not easy on the eyes. Internet explorer's UI I do like.

I think I'll stick with XP and OS X on my dual boot iMac for now.

i will personally not be upgrading any of the computers i manage to vista. windows xp+2000 are quite sufficient right now. when purchasing new machines, i will probably get vista. but that's not in the "forecast" right now.
sorry ms, i think you lose.

Any survey can be looked at in whoever's favor they want it to benefit. I bet they won't mention why, it would create jobs. Also I bet they won't mention how many defectors to linux and mac os vista will do as well.

Like it or not, vista is coming soon. Will it be a great os? I am sure it will get the job done. But given the security benefits as well as all the extra add ons that were third part apps in xp, I fail to see how it will create new jobs. If any it will be new jobs for microsoft as well as revenue for microsoft. Oem's and corporations may need more people to upgrade all their ancient computers to support xp, or help roll out all the new pc's with it. As well as for school's.

I mean like it or not we all will be using vista at some point in the next few years. if its at your job, at home or at a friends house, you will use it eventually. With oem's as soon as vista is released on 1/30/07 that will be your only option. Oem's sell millions of computers a year so that is millions of copies of vista a year like it or not, it is called the microsoft windows tax for a reason.

It would be a great thing if somehow microsoft's hold over the i.t. market was broken. Microsoft doesn't deserve their success they don't even know what to do with it. the more money they get, the stronger they get. They lazier they get. The more anti competitive they get. the less competition there is and the cycle continues. Until they single handedly and solely control more then just the os. It has already started.

I wouldn't doubt if there are several magical os's other then linux that would wipe microsoft off the map. But guess what, when you have a lot of money, you can do anything. You can pay to keep something quiet. You can pay people and companies not to use it. The only option against windows is a free os, but where there is free there is little or no money. Programmers go where the money is. That would be windows platform.

Vista will destroy many markets. Backup software, antispyware, firewall, calender, photo software will become a no need. I have no doubt microsoft will give away or sell one care live for next to nothing just to collapse the security vendor companies. yes microsoft created these markets. They should get rid of the security people by making everything inherently more secure. But is that fair? I do find it funny though they sell add's like that for windows. Isn't that like a smoke shop owner also being a doctor who specializes in lung cancer?

I don't hate microsoft, I hate how they operate I hate their morals I hate their business model and I hate their ethics. They are vicious, selfish and are losers when it comes down to it. They have all the talent in the world, the best paid brightest programmers their are. yet their products typically suck and are direct copies of stuff that has been out for years and is successful.

"I don't hate microsoft, I hate how they operate I hate their morals I hate their business model and I hate their ethics."

Morals and ethics eh... those pretentious shmucks don't know the meaning of those two words.

"But guess what, when you have a lot of money, you can do anything. You can pay to keep something quiet. You can pay people and companies not to use it. The only option against windows is a free os, but where there is free there is little or no money. Programmers go where the money is. That would be windows platform."

Difference between you and me: I look at the evidence of what we do know for sure about Microsoft, and you look at what they can do. Sure, Microsoft COULD pay to keep other things quiet, but so far neither you or I have any evidence of that. The whole mentality of "innocent until proven guilty" has left America it seems.

If you modify that headline just a tad, raise the comma up a bit, it gives an entirely different, but equally valid, meaning:

"Study: Vista to Create Jobs' Revenue"

that's funny
:-)

The knee-jerk response to this is obviously that it's either false or negative. However, if it were saying the opposite: will eliminate jobs and reduce spending, the results would be worse for those of us in the IT world. Spending means jobs. Jobs mean income. Income means you can feed your family and buy things and live a (more) comfortable life. I really don't care whether it's Microsoft or Toyota. Spending that creates jobs is good for everyone. Stop complaining and think of a way to get some of that money being spent.

this will explain much.

http://www.theinquirer.n...ault.aspx?article=13350

:-)

Aha! The Inquirer, eh? No wonder...

:D

Seriously though, that must have been tough to find, being that it is a three year-old article. Man, was it ever right or what? I mean, look at how far the IT industry has moved away from Microsoft since 2003:

http://news.netcraft.com..._web_server_survey.html

Yup, people are knocking each other over to run away from Microsoft this year, aren't they? :D

I'll tell you how jobs get created.

More technicians to fix the Vista problems. More people at MS to support and fix bugs, and to carry the money to the bank.

More people to support IT at the corporate level.

HAHAHA!!! I was just going to post a comment like that and you beat me to the punch! Good call, reckless!!

They probably mean $70 billion in profit for the pirates and 100,000 P2P torrent swappers. I can't believe them making even 1 billion.

They say this every year a new Microsoft OS comes out.

What a waste. :)

The only jobs it created were for the idiots that created these "studies".

It amazes me how much time and money are wasted while people make "guesses".

Who gives a flying a** s***?

100,000 jobs created eh, maybe we can ALL work for the Microsoft socialist government someday.
does your software contain MSG?

how are all these jobs GOING to be created by vista?
are they foreseeing future issues already?
once it's created properly, what's left besides a disc printing facility and customer support?

"Each dollar of Vista-related revenue would generate $18 for the IT industry at large."

that can be said about windows xp as well.

"100,000 jobs created eh, maybe we can ALL work for the Microsoft socialist government someday."

Always spouting opinion over and over until the masses accept it. Monopolies, FYI, technically do not exist in socialist countries, since the government owns everything (well maybe you could say the government is a monopoly, but that's about it). Add to this the fact that Microsoft gave more money to charity than any other company has. Beside that--if Bill REALLY wanted more money, why is he planning to give the approximately $25 billion gift from Warren Buffett (http://money.cnn.com/200...rity1.fortune/index.htm) away?

Seriously, all being considered, Bill could be the richest human being ever--but what could he possibly spend it all on, I mean besides EU fines? Socialism (not the "technical" definition, just another way of putting it) is when the government forces the money to 'spread out' amongst everyone, while capitalism is a system where competition is a good thing, and encourages growth.

""Each dollar of Vista-related revenue would generate $18 for the IT industry at large."

that can be said about windows xp as well."

And your point? I mean, since XP sales may be declining and revenue falling due to its age, Vista will allow for more IT jobs out there--mass SDS from network admins installing Vista onto multiple workstations. Heck, I may actually finally get a decent job over this--I'm tired of working at a callcenter unable to frikin move out of my parents house due to the low income it generates...

...Of course, it is more that easy to blame someone else for MY problems (e.g., Bush) but the fact remains that he has absolutely little if anything to do with it, so I can lie to myself as much as I want, but I am after truth, whether or not it is what I want to hear.

I will be first to admit that this country is taking more and more steps towards socialism, but Microsoft has nothing to do with it. I mean, think about it--do you think openoffice.org would exist at all if it was not for Microsoft? How about Firefox? Heck, even Apple's Quicktime wouldn't be what it is today without Microsoft. IPod's are used more on Windows-based PCs than Macintosh computers, so you tell me--is Microsoft socialistic? To the contrary, they are one of the biggest successes in American history as far as I'm concerned--they have done more to better the world than you, me, and both our extended families could do combined, my friend. That isn't because we care less than Bill does, or even unwilling, but only because we lack the massive resources that Microsoft has.

That's way too many letters, but i agree.

Stop complaining and create your might OS to replace Windows. I am sure you can get tons of VCs to fund you if you can show them you can be the next MS.

[bourgeoisdude]: do you think openoffice.org would exist at all if it was not for Microsoft? How about Firefox? Heck, even Apple's Quicktime wouldn't be what it is today without Microsoft. IPod's are used more on Windows-based PCs than Macintosh computers, so you tell me--is Microsoft socialistic?
________________________________________________
First, I want to ask: What are you talking about?, and second, methinks you confuse the credit you're seeking to attribute to Microsoft with normal innovation. I presume you're not old enough to remember, but there was office software before Microsoft came along with Word and Office; there were browsers before IE came around; and media player was a late-comer to the whole show — it wasn't until version 6.4 that it finally even looked like a media player!

If you're upset that people around the world want to build their own software in their spare time amidst groups in various Open Source projects free from corporate and proprietary restraints, and you call that socialism, then perhaps you need to revisit your books. No one is taking a dime from Microsoft's pocket; we're just not letting Bill and Steve-O pick our pockets anymore.

And that upsets you?

"well maybe you could say the government is a monopoly"

you could also say the monopoly is a government.
simple answer to why they're illegal.

"I mean, since XP sales may be declining and revenue falling due to its age, Vista will allow for more IT jobs out there"

gotta keep those wheels spinning eh?

"I may actually finally get a decent job over this"

just what we need, more useless IT workers.
if you can't progress doing what you do, it's time to change what you're doing.

OMG, how incredibly misuided you have become:

1. Microsoft does not tax anyone;
2. They do not have any laws in any countries that I am aware of that states Thou shalt not purchase software except from Microsoft;
3. Office products were out before Microsoft, and yet consumers chose Microsoft because they had the better product. So I'm confused now--are you agreeing with me or disagreeing, because you say one thing and then you argue another...

"If you're upset that people around the world want to build their own software in their spare time amidst groups in various Open Source projects free from corporate and proprietary restraints, and you call that socialism, then perhaps you need to revisit your books. No one is taking a dime from Microsoft's pocket; we're just not letting Bill and Steve-O pick our pockets anymore."

Wow. Okay, I did not say open-source was socialistic, you will not distort my words as saying that. Go work for CNN where you can make a living by deceiving people and making anti-American comments--you'd make a perfect reporter there. Come on! Do you think openoffice.org would have half the features it does without Microsoft? Hello! They BRAG on the fact that they have almost every Microsoft Office feature on their version for free, so the question is, why? Do they desire to emulate and make a project after an illegal socialistic monopoly?

No, zridling, unlike popular theory, SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES COPY MICROSOFT, not the other way around. Sure there are plenty of examples where Microsoft purchased/emulated others, but for every example you give, I can give you at least two examples where other companies copy Microsoft. Heck, Corel, openoffice.org, the countless WMP/IE "clones" out there--just to name a few. Heck, even Microsoft's main competition would be nowhere without creating interoperability with Microsoft's software!

So--select the few things you can disagree with that are based on point of view, and argue those. I do admit you are good at the song-and-dance.

The difference between you and me is that I look for the good in people, whilest you seek out to discover the flaws. Problem is, you attempt to discover the speck in your brother's eye while there's a plank in your own.

""well maybe you could say the government is a monopoly"

you could also say the monopoly is a government. simple answer to why they're illegal."

So governments are illegal now? How anti-American of you.

I hope you are indeed not a U.S. citizen, as it would be more unfathomable to curse your country more than you praise it. If you are, do the world a favor and move--you aren't worthy to breathe from the same oxygen that I do.

"just what we need, more useless IT workers."

No, I plan to be different. I know more than most of those IT workers because I have wanted to be one all my life, while thay do it because they want money. There's a big difference.

Even if you disagree, better to make money being a 'useless IT worker' than wasting your life by pointing out other people's problems for free.

"if you can't progress doing what you do, it's time to change what you're doing."

If so then Microsoft would have quit years ago, right?

*sigh* I tire of arguing with you...no, not because I'm wrong on this issue, but because of your swift criticism of others while the thought of criticising yourself and changing your way of thinking would be harder than it would be for me to convince a brick to change its way of thinking.

bravo

why would we want another MS?

"select the few things you can disagree with that are based on point of view"

isn't that what forums are about?
heck, it's what the whole country runs on.
get some sense.

"So governments are illegal now?"

where? within the US?
i think it's illegal to start your own government, yes?
isn't that what starts revolutions?

"I tire of arguing with you..."

really...i thought this was a place to get our point of view across on the subjects at hand?
i'm sorry you see the need to call it an argument.
i'm glad to hear you won't be critisizing my posts anymore. maybe you could just read them instead, you seem confused on a number of things.
:-p

I still don't understand a single word you're saying.
— #1 - Microsoft taxing?
— #2 - huh? (something called 'choice,' maybe?)
— #3 - Microsoft undeniably has a great office suite!

But relative to OpenOffice, it's no longer worth the money, i.e., thanks to XML, it's been commoditized. Office 2007 guarantees that fact. You may not like that fact, but it's still a fact nonetheless. Save this quote and by January 2009, watch the market of OpenOffice be 35% or more of Microsoft Office around the world. Just like we saw with Firefox vis-a-vis IE, MS Office's base will slowly erode over the next decade. It won't happen overnight, but it's been happening for five years.

— CNN - well, at least you got that conservative wingnut channel pegged, thank you.

But please, spare us the violins of how Microsoft invented anything, much less the feature set of the modern word processor. I'm not joking, if you do not know, or are unwilling to learn, computing history, then please stop embarrassing yourself. Because those of us who do, are laughing at you every time you post. I say that out of love, not hate, brother.
________________________________________________
As for copying Microsoft, tell us why Microsoft ditched its binary file format in favor of an XML format, which OpenOffice already had since early 2005? Who's copying whom? And why would Microsoft do that? OpenDocument Format is ISO certified as an official, international standard for creating office documents. Why is Microsoft trying to copy OpenDocument in that same process? Don't they have all the market share they could ever want? Ask yourself why they would want or need their file formats to become ISO certified? If you're the king of the hill, and the de facto standard around the globe, why would you care to copy what OpenOffice is doing?
________________________________________________
It's a natural thing for products in the same market to be familiar. Check out any type of vehicle — they're all pretty similar. How "different" do you want someone else's spreadsheet to be? And at what point does it cease to be a spreadsheet once it's unfamiliar? Did Excel "copy" VisiCalc? How about Lotus 1-2-3? (Of course they did!) Does that make Microsoft a fraud? No, but you're right, they did build a better spreadsheet. Hey, but on the same hand you don't see LazyBoy running around screaming that everyone copied the idea of a chair from them. I did note that you stayed away from giving Microsoft any credit for software innovation. Thank you.

As for Microsoft I won't even mention DRM, IRM, TCPA, TCO, or even what Microsoft is best known for: the blue screen of death. Oh wait, I just did.

Finally, just for the sake of honesty, I love the Microsoft software I use (and have used), which includes OneNote, Expression Web, IE7, Word (at work), Excel (at work), and my keyboard and mouse hardware. So you could call me a fanboy, but at least I'm willing to say where Microsoft goes wrong, and when they tell me that Vista is going to create 100,000 new jobs, they're just lying. You're the only one who refuses to see the lie, it seems.

I find it better not to argue with Idiots ... They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

" think it's illegal to start your own government, yes?"

Whatever, "man". I'm with Galway on this one--go ahead and get in your last word, since I will not reply here.

"— #1 - Microsoft taxing?"

I put that in response to this statement you made earlier:

"No one is taking a dime from Microsoft's pocket; we're just not letting Bill and Steve-O pick our pockets anymore."

"— #2 - huh? (something called 'choice,' maybe?)"

Same as #1.

"— #3 - Microsoft undeniably has a great office suite!"

"But relative to OpenOffice, it's no longer worth the money, i.e., thanks to XML, it's been commoditized. Office 2007 guarantees that fact. You may not like that fact, but it's still a fact nonetheless. Save this quote and by January 2009, watch the market of OpenOffice be 35% or more of Microsoft Office around the world. Just like we saw with Firefox vis-a-vis IE, MS Office's base will slowly erode over the next decade. It won't happen overnight, but it's been happening for five years."

Fine--if Microsoft loses there, I'm fine with that. I'm not saying Microsoft is perfect, I was mostly upset over the fact that you believe Microsoft is picking our pockets. I see you did not mean they were literally stealing your money without your permission, but that was the impression I had. For clarity--you don't think Microsoft is actually stealing your money, do you? Over-priced products, perhaps--I think that is a huge problem. I paid for Office 97 Professional product, but since then the "professional" office products became overly priced, and for that reason the only version of MS Access I have is 97.

I can tell now (assuming you did not intend to say Microsoft stole your money without your consent) that you are not the 'fanboy' I thought you were. I apologise for that. I do tire of folks who accuse Microsoft of stealing from their pockets when all they have to do is use linux/apple/etc--buying Microsoft products is indeed a choice, and therefore one does not have to 'have their pockets picked' by microsoft. Perhaps now you can at least sort of understand why I became upset at your comments before?

Again, if I misinterpreted your comments, I apologise.

There is no way to create competition if Microsoft doesn't get split up. The situation is way worse than that of the Telcos back in the '70s which Reagan had the courage to split the monopoly up in order to create a free market.

"Create" 100,000 jobs? Where, in tech support, or answering the phones when WGA locks your system down? Maybe those 100,000 jobs will be created in Open Source by Google and "200,000 IT companies" writing Linux and OpenOffice code!

Nah'gana'hapn.

Maybe you could switch to the MS callcenter and get paid more 'dude?

I'd do it for €18/call (not those worthless USDollars)!

I could--but then I'd have to actually relocate, which is difficult to do when I can't even afford rent :)

Wow, the hard-sell is getting a bit obnoxious here, so much so that it is starting to sound a little desperate. Vista will sell on it's merits and those are debatable.

I think this a load of crap. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for my company to upgrade our XP Pro machines to Vista. None. I would like to see how this study was conducted and where the numbers came from.

i agree... vista probably wont be much more secure with in a few months of its relese...

and why they heck would most companys upgrade basicly for just eye candy

For the same reason why people upgraded from 2k to XP. Honestly speaking, they are two very similar system. I think 2k has better security too.

Yeah, but XP plays a lot nicer with Windows 2003 servers though.

Should have stopped reading @ "A Microsoft-sponsored study.."

Noticed it's through IDC. Add it up and it equals a huge stinking pile of BS.

I'm surprised they didn't work in a quote from the BSA for the triple-threat.

Have fun guys!

nice,
i agree, anything to make investors believe in them.

how is MS making $70 billion in revenue going to help me?
it's not like their latest os was very revolutionary. honestly, for $70 billion, i expect a mind blowing experience. (like intel's conroe)
they will no doubt make billions, but it will be the marketing itself that does it, not the product.

It will help you (maybe) if you own MS stock!

--->how is MS making $70 billion in revenue going to help me?

so i could profit off of MS's dirty business practices?
i don't think so.
thx anyway.

Ever been to the doctor? Ever been given money/help from Red Cross? Ever been a victim of an act of God and taken disaster relief? Ever had a flu shot? Look around at just a few of the things Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gives to:

http://www.gatesfoundati...nts/Announce-061201.htm

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Search/default.htm

http://www.gatesfoundati...nts/Announce-060914.htm

Do they give money to institutions that misuse the resources? I'm sure they have. Do they give money to global causes, such as foreign aid, tsunami relief, etc.? Yes, and in some cases they give more than the US government does towards disaster relief.

EDIT: Sorry dhjdhj, meant to reply to "The Man".

you're telling me you need a company to extort money from you to give it to charity.

maybe we'd all have more money for charity if we didn't give so much to bill.

wait a minute...Bill?...is that you?...trying to take credit for our money?
then again, wasn't the foundation his wife's idea?

(i am VERY happy for the gates foundations donations :-)

The man, I'm with you 100%. WHEN YOU HAVE *TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS*. Giving to charity is AUTOMATICALLY EXCLUDED as a means of "showing your goodness to humanity". So Bill was worth 90+ billion at some point and he let go of 40 billion to charity... Umm, that leaves him with 50 billion. Anyone find something wrong with that picture?

You prove the goodness of your heart when you give money that you DONT have. Not money that you can't even get rid of if you tried. I respect a guy who gave a poor child the last 10$ he had for the week 1000 times more then any f*cking bill or melinda.

If he gave away all of his money, how could he afford the BS fines that Korea and EU keep imposing?

Seriously, he gives less percentage than people can give. I agree there. However, they are probably one of the best charity organisations in the world IMO, not because of the amount, but because of the wise spending. Rather than just throwing wads of money to strangers, they actually distribute the money to those who put it to good use, and if any of their recipients start screwing around with it, they can stop giving to them. It certainly works better than the government could, right?

Seriously, you are complaining that Bill has so much money to give away? If I thought as you guys did, how would I measure success?

Let me ask this in another manner--if I made 20 billion dollars, would I be evil? Is it the money that you despise, regardless of how he obtained it? Or is it the fact that you dislike Microsoft personally?

1. Like Microsoft or hate them all you want, I cannot and will not ever change your views there. I only request that you look at this from the other point of view--what if Microsoft is rich because it actually sold innovative products?

2. Isn't giving what you don't have is stealing? If you don't have it, who did? Yeah, let's see what happens when I give YOUR money away...according to you, that would make it "out of the goodness of my heart"?

3. At least Microsoft has made the money that they give away.

Edited--no business of mine, professional or not, to make accusations without proof here. I apologise if you saw what was written originally here.