Let's see how this works out.

Imagine the howls of disappointment and heartbreak of the Sony/Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub when they find out that their beloved has f*cked them, again.

What are the Sony/Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub going to say when they find out their PS3s (along with the rest of the 'profile 1.0' Blu-ray players - ie everything sold to date and sold for several more months) may not work with 'profile 1.1' or 'profile 2.0' discs.

http://www.listenup.com/...tner_...adge.aug.07.php

Lets see how it turns out, when these 51GB HD DVD discs are only playable in the very latest HD DVD players...

A few upset punters I think.

You poor little shills.

Seemed like your propaganda machine locked up for bit there.

Let me guess... it runs on BD-J?

"Lets see how it turns out, when these 51GB HD DVD discs are only playable in the very latest HD DVD players..."

- LMAO.

Is that it?

Is that the best you shills can come up with, weak guessing games even you must know are lame in the extreme?

"A few upset punters I think."

- ......and if not what then shill? Hmmmmm?

If any format has a huge question-mark hanging over it right now I'd say it's Blu-ray.

Go see what Denon have said.
Denon say, on the record, that the Blu-ray 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' discs and players might not work with 'profile 1.0' discs and players and that they are still working (hard) on this issue to try to resolve it.

Then (if you've the guts) come back with your weak whining little questions about whether the 3rd layer might or might not be readable on the very 1st HD DVD players.

Try getting a sense of proportion for once, idiot.

My father in law complains because he has a DVD player that simply doesn't play the latest DVD's. His own DVD library: works fine. But the newset netflix and local rentals just won't work. Fun stuff.

Maybe Sony are still trying to figure out the best way to implement their latest rootkit.

The bad news just keeps on coming for Blu-ray.

From those well know Microsoft shills & HD DVD fanboys Denon comes this news.....

Denon says the 'profile 1.1' discs might not work on existing 'profile 1.0' Blu-ray players.

(is that the real reason for the continual delays with it?)

JT: The profile itself is the next step in the Blu-ray evolution. HD DVD is what I call a "baked format", meaning it's basically done. There are some copy protection things, but that's later, and they’re not going to affect performance and playback of material. For Blu-ray, on the other hand, Profile 1.1 is just the next step — there's actually a Version 2 some time next year. That's going to deal with players and the software, so it's two-sided. But back to Profile 1.1. It mandates that players must have secondary audio and video processing for picture-in-picture capabilities, be able to support external storage of some type — or internal storage, it's really an option, I believe — for downloaded Web material. Current Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players do not have to have any “connect” port. Those that do, it's really for firmware update, but that’s the only thing it's really good for. Where HD DVD, has HDI, it's an interactive version. And even that port is required to go to a movie’s web site or a dedicated space to download extra material. When our player comes out, the first thing people will notice on the front panel is that is has an SD card slot. We give you an SD card, and obviously, you can buy others. You would take that to your computer, go to the movie website on the card and download this material, toss it into the player, and then be able to access that simultaneously with the movie playback.

Q: Will that load the information to the disc's menu system?

JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you to make it a truly interactive experience.
After that, it's standard Blu-ray.
But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.

Q: Really?

JT: It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs.
The BD portion [of the DVD-3800BDCI] is going to be the newest and latest and greatest available, but the biggest concern for us was not to forget about SD, standard definition. So in reality, for a lot of your readers and your customers and a lot of the people out there that check the site, this is like a DVD-3930CI with Blu-ray added. [But without DVD-Audio or SACD – Ed.]

http://www.listenup.com/...tner_...adge.aug.07.php

- Denon are not releasing their 'profile 1.1 player until later next year.

But to hear direct from them that they are still working hard to ensure 'profile 1.1' discs work with 'profile 1.0' players at this stage must be deeply worrying for anyone who has bought into Blu-ray so far.

Not that the resident Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub would ever admit to it.......afterall what do people like Denon know about it anyways?

LMAO

Blu-ray.....effectively dead within 12mths?

HD DVD is baked (done) so blo-ray must be cooked as in its over, but sony never screws it's customers. This is not good for the early adoptors. Lets add more units to Sony's count since they have to replace their working machine. Ususally Sony products have to break for them to need to be replaced. Great move there Sony a new way to inflate numbers.

Maybe Denon were paid by Microsoft to infiltrate Blu-ray & post this kind of stuff against them?

LMAO.

I find it very erie that so many of the normal shills have for the most part been silent. Maybe they went back to bluray where they are safe from opposing views.

Anyone being compensated for speaking out against Blu-ray is just being greedy. I do it for free all the time. I consider it my good deed for the day. :)

Hey Dave,

I noticed the girls over at blu-ray.com are getting all excited over ........... Hairspray .......... WTF?

Check this comment out by one of the Blu-Ray Stepford wives:

WHOA!!!!!!!!! THIS IS AWESOME NEWS!!! 1.1 READY TO ROLL!!! I personally dont care for PIP, but I want those HDDVD fan boyz to stop ripping on the PIP-lessness of BLURAY, now we get BD-JAVA interactive menues, games, and PIP around the corner, this truly is another step towards our sure victory....

and.....

Please, we MUST purchase this! New Line Cinema has Lord of the Rings in their pocket!

and....

Yes!!!! I hope Profile 1.1 is going to be available for download via the PS3 sooner rather than later!!! I will be purchasing this title to sway New Line towards the Blu.

You people need do discover lap dances and naked women. OMG....

I LOL'ED

I average age there must something like 12.

"this truly is another step towards our sure victory...."

Haha... lawl. :)

To loosely quote Sun Tzu, I believe he stated that some of the greatest victories were achieved without fighting a single battle, and that making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated. HD DVD seems to be following that principle nicely.

He also stated that strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. That crown goes to Blu-ray.

They're getting all hot and salty about Profile 1.1 ('ready to roll', yeah right)... and it begs the question: Why???

It's not like any of those immature 12 year old dolts are going to be able to afford a Denon when (if) it's available sometime next spring. They'll ask mommy and daddy, and their response will be "But we already bought you a PS3... I thought you said that's all you would ever need".

LOL

"I LOL'ED"

- Yeah, of course.

Seriously.

How could anyone (sane) not?

"I will be purchasing this title to sway New Line towards the Blu."

- Awwwwww, those poor little Blu-ray fanboys, wasted their money cos New Line have finally confimed they are going to be neutral to begin with.

More HD DVD content and nothing Blu-ray has that HD DVD does not.

......and the day-dreaming that 'profile 1.1' will just be a firmware update on the PS3 shows just how detached from reality those fools are.

Read the Denon interview.

Denon are (right now, still) working ("very hard") to even get 'profile 1.0' discs and players working with 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' discs and players!

The format with the huge questions hanging over it is Blu-ray not HD DVD.

My question is where are thee disc samples they passed out to spectators? Must be enough in the wild for testing to be done
Or were they passing out blanks? :(

Looks like Sony may have supported the wrong technology again, just like the BetaMax!

Unfortunately it was superior to VHS, but if the public wants junk let them have it.
In this case I have no idea which format is better, because I simply don't care at this point.

This just in:

TRANSFORMERS COMING TO BLU-RAY ........ in 18 months.

...but by that time the studio won't have a reason to release it.

"This just in:

TRANSFORMERS COMING TO BLU-RAY ........ in 18 months."

- ......according to the desperate lying Sony/PS3/Blu-ray propagandists.

Prove it.

It was sarcasm, no one will give a crap about that movie in 18 months.

Sorry Hollywood.....the things is it's too close to how the real Blu-ray shills squalk for it to be clear!

Hollywood forgives, Hollywood is too lazy to hold a grudge.

The BD shills used disc storage space as the clincher from day one, now that HD-DVD has surpassed 50GB and no current Blu-Ray player can even read a dual, triple, or qual layer BD disc is hilarious.

The HD-DVD group had strict standards and backward compatibility in mind for any new spec that may come along, all players will be able to read triple layered discs, including the XA1 first gen.

BD was rushed out unfinished and it looks like the final spec will arrive sometime in early 08 if they can get it to work. In the mean time HD-DVD keeps chugging along with it's working extra features. I posted a compilation of clips from the movie 300 called "dismemberment" for people to view with HDi. Basically it's every clip where a limb or a head comes off. Anyone with thier ethernet hooked up can download it to thier player and check it out.

HD-DVD rocks for extra content whereas you can see a spinning key for 15 minutes with Blu-Ray's POTC 2 if you want to play Liars Dice.

Almost none of the extra fetures on Blu-Ray actually work well and the lag time is excruciating. The HDi features on HD-DVD are instant.

Like I said, BD is unfinished and studios are getting pissed.

50+ GB HD-DVD + Chinese capitalism = So Long BD.

Pretty cool. You can put eight documentary films on a 51GB Disc and pass it out to people.

I suggest including this film on GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230

Word on the streets:

Gen1 HD DVD players incompaible
Gen2 HD DVD players incompatible
Gen3 HD DVD player compatible with future firmware update.

"Word on the streets"? Who gave you this information...some homeless guy on the corner by your house?

Word on the streets, is you need to use your own name and stop behaving like a child.

You apparently cannot read as NO ONE knows for sure if it will work on the gen 1 or 2 players. It is currently undergoing testing.

Oh and word on the street is Sony is giving up and abandoning the video business in favor of selling shiny mp3 players, this was verified from the word on the streets. It was obtained by someone named "Rob", he was eating the garbage out of my trashcan but he said it was true.

Damnit, you beat me to it, that's what I get for not refreshing, stupid call volume :(

This gets even more pathetic, you can see the frustration and dissapiontment Dave is having with Blu-Ray and it's non working discs and bonus features.

Blu-Ray is having huge problems accross the board and all you can do is spread what you want everyone to believe about HD-DVD. At least I have shown everyone here that you and the lot of BD fanatics are immature retarded lemmings.

Are you still recruiting blu-ray.com forum members to register here and spread the Blu-Ray BS?

I dont know what to say anymore but we all know you are all the same guy posting under a dozen usernames (including mine).

Word on the streets:

- PS3 complete failure
- Blu-Ray dying a slow death
- Blu-Ray/Sony fanboys are crying

Nice.

Amen

"Word on the streets:

Gen1 HD DVD players incompaible
Gen2 HD DVD players incompatible
Gen3 HD DVD player compatible with future firmware update."

- No.

The real word on the streets is that the Sony/PS3/Blu-ray shills have become hysterically funny as they try to lie and spin anything positive out of this for their beloved CE corporation, game console & high def format.

"Who gave you this information"

- It was Dave, under another log-in name, at Blu-ray.com.

Those voices in his head are really cool, he gets coloured lights, music and everything!

Tenoq: Yeah, sure, in your Microsoft love dreams maybe... And as per your statements then HD-DVD what is it, a tragic failure ?

ok...no sider here :)
but from the little I know...that's not a good thing if you go with HDdvd right? BD has this capacity and is meant with it from the get go, meaning the BD drives could read all the discs...but now the HD drives really have a 1st gen, 2nd gen..etc concept. Not really good if they are still trying to fight a format war IMO.
But I don't really know...enlighten me if you can ;). Yes I know both sides had issues with those discs with "extra" interactivity, but that's besides the point. These things shouldn't have any of that junk in the first place.

The whole argument is stupid. BD fanboys say the storage capacity is key, yet the format has only produced a handful of discs that even require that capacity. Now, assuming HD DVD has reached the 51GB capacity, that argument becomes a moot point, although the backwards compatibility for current players to read these discs is certainly an issue.

The counter to that? It's your own fault for buying a format and first gen player. Like you did not see that coming from a mile away.

The final point is that the competition between the two is a GOOD thing people, because as one price falls the other will fall. I always jump on these articles because you can count on a bunch of childish remarks from both sides about superiority of either format.

Let's get down to brass tax people. We are talking about HD movies and TV shows. Really? You want to trade personal insults and get fired up over an entertainment format? This is completely irrelevant to the real problems in this world. Let's tackle our nations education with the same voracity and money we dump into this silly crap. Let's discuss our failing health care system with the same vigor and inginuity to come up with a solution.

It's been six years since 9/11, let's not forget about the real sh!t going down in the world.

On a lighter note, please continue the fighting. I think its funny and it usually provides a good laugh during the day.

Aaron,

As long as I am working at home, I will always be here to entertain.

p.s. Dave sucks a bag of sh!t.

You should participate more. The more the merrier. :)

" BD has this capacity and is meant with it from the get go, meaning the BD drives could read all the discs...but now the HD drives really have a 1st gen, 2nd gen..etc concept"

- The very first HD DVD drive was triple layer compatible (NEC developed the HR1100A drive & Toshiba developed the 45gb TL disc).

Toshiba then spent the next 2yrs developing that 45gb TL disc into the present 51gb TL disc.

Whilst doing that they designed & manufactured those gen1, 2 & 3 players.

DVD Forum approval requires a substantial degree of backwards compatibility.
.....and they just got that.

We are also being treated to very heavy hints that movies are to be announced on the 51gb TL disc and there will be a major public announcement (from Toshiba) about all of this in the coming 30days.

If movies are announced that is going to be accompanied by news of compatibility, how could it not be?

(......and it's worth noting that the DVD Forum are under no obligation to publish or publicise anything, which is how come only their minutes confirming this have been made public, as normal).

So, if you believe the Blu-ray shills, fine.
If you think it's at all credible then go ahead & believe that Toshiba had a triple layer drive right from the very beginning of HD DVD and that they have developed the triple layer discs right from the start but somehow dropped the idea for gen 2 & (maybe) 3drives.

You can believe that if you like but that doesn't seem in the slightest bit credible.

.....and speaking of compatibility HD DVD is not and will never be in the situation Blu-ray are in.
'Profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' are supposedly the final spec and require hardware as well as updated software.
All the present 'profile 1.0' players (ie everything on the market right now) cannot (due to lacking the hardware) be updated and so have built-in obsolescence.
They will not (ever) be able to play the supposedly advanced features Blu-ray offers.

.....which makes the current rush to bring 'profile 1.0' Blu-ray players to market (before the mandatory date for 'profile 1.1' compliance - which was recently s***ed, again, to Nov 2007) particularly dishonest and deceitful IMO.

"This news has been trickling down while yesterday the Los Angeles Times and Newsday reported......"

- Biased 'Shill' Bill Hunt at work again.

The guy pretends to be a consumer advocate but is so obviously now exposed as having turned 'Digital Bits' into just another Blu-ray PR outlet.
Sad really.

"The way I see it is its a new format"

- It's not a new format.

Toshiba developed the 45gb TL disc right from the beginning and NEC produced the 1st HD DVD drives with triple layering part of the gen 1 HD DVD spec.

TL has been a part of HD DVD since the very first discs and drives were revealed.

"why would you buy until you knew the player you were buying would play it"

- They have had TL discs and drives since day 1......are you really suggesting & expecting that they just dropped that in between then and now?
The 51gb TL disc was revealed in jan 2007 - a mere 2 or 3 mths after the gen 2 players were announced.
Do you honestly think Toshiba worked on the refinement of the TL design but just dropped it from the players (even tho they were developing the 51gb TL discs)?

That doesn't sound credible to me at all.

We've been told to wait 30days.

There are movies coming on the 51gb disc very soon (which implies full backwards compatibility) and undoubtedly they will say what the whole situation is in a concrete black and white on the record press statement.

No-one has to wait very long.

Do you honestly think Toshiba worked on the refinement of the TL design but just dropped it from the players (even tho they were developing the 51gb TL discs)?

Not a shill, not a troll, but...

Is it not possible that the original spec is even slightly different from the existing one?

It would be in toshibas best interest to make those work on existing players as doing so will further push them ahead. I would think if they approved it they looked at this beforehand but we won't know for 30 days

"Is it not possible that the original spec is even slightly different from the existing one?"

- Of course, until we hear the definitive statement in 30days or so, it's possible......but is it very likely?

I think not.

I might be persuadable that the very first drive might have problems with the 3rd layer of the 51gb disc but given the timing of the first public news of the 51gb disc (jan 2007) and the release of the gen 2 players (Oct 2006) i would be astounded if gen 2 & 3 had any problems with them at all.

We'll all know soon enough.

.....and of course if the relative handful of gen 1 players do have some issues with layer 3 then I don't imagine it's too difficult to package the disc contents in such a way as to side-step this.

I do find it hilarious tho how when I have previous mentioned this (that layers 1 & 2 might be read ok & 3 left for the less essential elements & extras) the Blu-ray fanclub (I do not include yourself in this btw PC_Tool) dismissed that idea as another 'it, like the whole 51gb TL disc, is just vaporware & it'll never happen'.

30 days to find out either way isn't too long to wait (and if they are announcing movies - as is being heavily rumoured - we'll know all about compatibility for certain).

It would be in toshibas best interest to make those work on existing players as doing so will further push them ahead.

A more obvious statement there never was... :p

Thanks!

I think not.

I'm sure the Sony fanclub is under that impression. :p

(Couldn't resist)

"Thanks!"

- Not at all, I've no problem with people discussing this like adults, I just can't abide the shill-pack lying and twisting everything they can.

I have no problem admitting that when I give an opinion that that is what I'm doing.

For those interested there's a nice little piece (take it or leave it, believe it or not) from avs from 'an insider' about how come 51gb triple layer is actually easier to acomplish than 45gb TL.

"looks like the 1st gen Toshiba's have the capability to optically read the tl discs and for some PERL data reading reason, TL 51 may actually be easier for players to read because of optical distortion and interference reasons.
The issue kinda is getting clear data from the laser bouncing off the third layer and for some reason the pitch and data density on 17GB layers produces less interference, or is easier to correct for , than the 15GB discs.
That's a little different than what I heard before , and a bit counterintuitive, that a TL 45 was a detuned TL51.
but physics and optics can be that way at times."

and for those interested in where the appalling replication numbers are coming from here's another (properly named & credited....unlike almost every other 'Blu-ray insider' piece I ever saw) piece from avs.

"Dave Vaughn
AVS Special Member
I’ve received a lot of flack the past few days from people wanting me to reveal my sources in regard to the yield rates on both BD50’s and BD25’s. I will NOT list the company in order to protect the employee.

Here is where it all started. In doing HD DVD and BD reviews, talking to encoders helps A LOT in understanding how the process works. I have two such people that I have spoken to who have provided me with technical advice for quite some time. They are:

Independent DVD/HD DVD/BD Encoder who does work for both BD and HD DVD studios
Independent DVD/BD Encoder who does work for two BD studios
Also, a third source in this is a Studio Employee

The studio employee tipped me off that yields weren’t up to what was being published so I asked the encoders if they had heard the same and they concurred. Both stated that when they were doing encodes on BD disc (single layer), they had to try and keep the total file system to under 23 GB because when they went over that data amount, yields dropped precipitously.
So essentially a 25 GB disc was really only a 22-23 GB disc for it to be manufactured with any efficiency.

As for BD50 yields, the same applies with them as well when it comes to the data on the disc.
They try and keep the data 10-15% below the max space (42-45 GB) for the same reasons, but the overall yields on the BD50’s weren’t that good, but they couldn’t supply actual numbers to me.
So as with BD25’s, the actual space on BD50’s is in the neighborhood of 42-45GB, which is still a ton of data, but also isn’t 50GB either.

In discussions with one of these encoders, they stated that Sony was originally doing all of the manufacturing of the BD discs for them because their normal supplier couldn’t get yields above 10% on BD50’s since installing their lines.

So, with this information, I started to ask some more questions such as who is doing your manufacturing for you, do you know anyone I can talk to etc. Well, it turns out that one of the people was able to get me in contact with someone at a replication facility, so here is my next contact:

Employee at Independent replication facility

What he told me is that his company couldn’t do the BD50’s above a 10% yield so all of their work was sent out to a third party company (independent as well) who could do the work. He let me know who this company was and it turned out that I was able to get a contact there. Which leads to my next contact:

Another Employee at separate Independent replication facility

This person goes on to tell me much of the same things that I have been hearing from those above, that yields are very low when a lot of data is on the disc (both BD25’s and BD50’s), but the average yields on BD25’s are in the 60-70% range, and at 50% for BD50’s.
He then told me that Sony had helped them in their processing and that their yields were consistent with what Sony was getting in their facilities.
He also stated that he knows that other facilities are having some serious issues because they receive BD images from other fabricators all the time to do their manufacturing of these discs for them.

Some new news to report on this though is that I was contacted last night by someone that just happens to work at the same facility as my last source above and that the BD25 numbers that were given to me were a bit low, and that 80% was more in line to what they are seeing today, but the BD50 number was accurate.
He also confirmed that my information was correct when the disc is close to capacity that the yields drop fast because of the way the clear coat reacts around the edges of the discs.

Examining all of this in hindsight, I guess the only thing I would change would be stating the numbers given to me about Sony’s plants, since it came from only one person (second hand at that).
But in light of what was sent to me last night, I think it is fair to say that if Sony states that are getting in the neighborhood of 85% yields, then I can take them at their word on that, at least on BD25’s.
But based upon what my sources are telling me, they aren’t 25 GB discs, they are more along the lines of 23GB discs.

Hopefully this placates any doubters out there as to the legitimacy of my sources.
__________________
David Vaughn
DVD Editor
Home Theater Spot
Contributing Writer
Ultimate AV[/quote]
http://www.avsforum.com/...28428&postcount=737

"I'm sure the Sony fanclub is under that impression. :p

(Couldn't resist)"

- Don't be so sure, you could be as blunt as the Pentagon & those guys would be looking for any point other than the obvious.

Yeah, I read that one too. Good stuff... very enlightening.

This format war is a farce.

Neither side have finalised what the **** they are doing and are producing players and disks that aren't compatible with each other.

Why in the hell do they think people will buy their products at the moment?

Actually according to the original spec from toshiba this should play in the gen 1 players. They dont know yet as testing is still underway.

Ah, this will work unlike the mess that is blu-ray.

"Neither side have finalised what the **** they are doing and are producing players and disks that aren't compatible with each other."

- Really?

The 'a plague on both your houses' approach is slightly more subtle I guess.......but what exactly is it that HD DVD has produced that is not compatible with the entire range?

It's undeniable that 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' Blu-ray players will all have significant and permanent incompatibility issues with the existing 'profile 1.0' Blu-ray players, that's a very fair and accurate comment, but tell me, exactly what has HD DVD got on their side that is incompatible with anything?

Cos right now anyone claiming incompatibility is plain wrong and/or guessing.

30 days were we asked to wait, and in 30 days we'll all see just how much (or how little) compatibility the 51gb TL disc has with the entire HD DVD range.

Kewl ... Cant wait to hear the response to this one. Support should be good if the format has been approved, with manufactures ensuring support from new. With the uptake of HD players being so low, this could be the incentive to buy now. With good marketing to highlight the new capacity, along with the best prices and expanding film support I can see this being another nail in the coffin for Blu-ray.

I personally am an HD-DVD fan but, who paid you to write that comment? How could a new format that is unconformed to work on current players, low uptake of players and good marketing make this a good time to buy? Please explain your spin. The way I see it is its a new format, why would you buy until you knew the player you were buying would play it and, why would you buy anything at all until the movie industry kids stop fighting over which directions its actually going go?

Its like saying, here comes the new model, the old model wont support what the new model will. Hurry, buy the old model before they are sold out and the new one is released at lower prices.

The old players will play the new disks.

actually that is not what has been said. there is absolutely no guarantee it will work is what has been said.

They don't know for sure if the new spec will work on the old model.

"How could a new format that is unconformed to work on current players, low uptake of players and good marketing make this a good time to buy?"

Until now, I have decided to hold off buying a HD player, I would now be interested in buying a drive certified to play to this standard. Rocket science .... I think not.

"The way I see it is its a new format,..."

Its not a new format, its the same standard with the additional 3 layer 51Gig spec added on.

"why would you buy until you knew the player you were buying would play it ..."

I would research my purchase.

"why would you buy anything at all until the movie industry kids stop fighting over which directions its actually going go?"

If you have a HD TV, and you want to watch HD titles and stop buying DVD's because you know soon you will want to replace them then its better to bite the bullet and buy the one you think is going to win now. I personally think HD-DVD is going to win, which is good because I would NEVER buy anything Sony.

"actually that is not what has been said."

- Well it depends on who you listen to.

Amirm (an excellent source for HD DVD info) is saying almost nothing - which is exactly what he does if (1) he isn't connected to the particular HD DVD development in question and therefore does not know or - remember he works for Microsoft not Toshiba - (2) he is keeping quiet cos that is the general instruction for all concerned.

Frankly I suspect the latter given the heavy hinting that we have to wait only 30 days until the public announcement & the strong rumours this is to be accompanied with news of movie releases on the 51gb TL disc.

"there is absolutely no guarantee it will work is what has been said."

- Hmmmmm, well I'd have said it's more like 'we have to await the full results of the testing being made public' if you really want to be accurate.
There is a subtle difference.

I think that there is a great disconnect regarding the arguments that are being thrown around pro and con for the different disk formats. I will explain:

Blu-ray is a format that was developed by Sony. We all know that Sony, if given the chance, would make the air that we breathe a proprietary format. However please understand that the HD-DVD format was a technological “defensive reflex” by Microsoft (and Toshiba, etc.) in the hopes that they could find a format whereby they would not have to license disk technology from Sony. Although I do not blame their motives, they themselves have agendas to lock people into their particular line of sales (can anybody say “embrace, copy and extend”?) In any event, there are no angels on either side of this particular technological showdown. You will still be looking at a new format in the future controlled by one side.

According to an ex-Microsoft exec that I am close with, once Blu-Ray was starting to be developed, the boys in Redmond knew that this type technology was going to be widespread. Redmond as well as other companies have game machines that need optical disks to play the games. They also still distribute large amounts of code on optical disk. Most hardcore gamers are getting their play (and alternate environment disks) on DVDs as it stands now. If Redmond, and any other software company wanted to go to the next level of storage, they would have to give Sony a license fee for each Blu-ray disk they shipped with their software on it. Period. Redmond does not like being at the mercy of other people’s technology nor do they like paying another company a licensing fee when they can just as well reverse-engineer and/or rip off (again embrace, copy and extend)the technology. I understand that the technologies here are different however the general concept is the same. Subsequently a meeting was called by nervous Microsoft executives and this alternative (HD-DVD) format was then inspired and launched (with some negotiations with Toshiba.) I am not going to argue which format is better because I see it as a non-issue. The main point is that the formats are really not about “technology” per se as they are more about “politics” and “political decisions.” Who drives the one particular format to a success? Who knows.

The People’s Republic of China has now gotten involved and they have a new standard that they want to push. This format “seems” to be “similar” to the HD-DVD. Articles were post over a year ago that retro-fitting the DVD plants into HD-DVD plants would be much easier and cheaper than building Blu-Ray manufacturing plants. If China is going to get involved in this debate and struggle, my money would be on the “cheapest” way to implement new technologies. I think the general hunch of a win goes to HD-DVD however it is anybody’s game at this point in time. Sometimes you can be right even if you are wrong – especially with a consumer market of 1 billion plus consumers.

Currently, there is out-and-out bribery going on to have major corporations and studios defect from one camp to another. Besides being idiotic, I think these companies are somewhere on Dante’s first level of hell being stung by bees perpetually. Even opportunists in this day and age still do not have the precognition needed to see the winner in this format war.

Now the kicker, the major companies that develop software and online gaming do not give a rat’s behind which format wins because they are just waiting for the pipes to get bigger and faster so that the software, games, on-demand movies, etc. can be downloaded and media, any media will go the way of the do-do bird. That is their main game plan. The sooner the big media companies can get rid of a physical disk for their licensed IP, the happier they will be because they know you will have to download the software updates, the game updates, any new purchases, etc. Therefore, muddying the water does nothing to their long-term goals. This really makes the outlook for a true format winner even more problematic.

Worrying about which format will be most prevalent is like arguing over who has a nicer jail cell. It really does not matter since you are still in jail.