The internet is controlled by those who have the websites. I control my three websites just as this website is controlled by it's owner.

Governments are after the control of something they have no business being in. Keep them out!

Where did US CONTROL INTERNET ADDRESSING lead to this discussion lead to politics and terrorism. Keep to the topic please.

Thanks.

MoRpHeUs2003

No one should a have a complete control over internet, if that even is possible.

Good gracious how did all this come from a comment about who should 'control' the internet?

Anyway...I agree with about the only constructive comment in here someplace - about other countries having their own traffic servers (if they decide to).
Have it be kinda like a great decentralized network of country controlled servers to taper off some of the pressures on one 'area'. Furthermore, I also agree that it shouldn't be a 'control' issue. Why is it that when it comes to anything big or important (that affects the world) it becomes about 'control'?.
While I agree that ideas and plans should be shared and decided on by a multi-country run team, it's also a tried and true fact that 'too many cooks spoil the broth'. When you have too many people running something, it either takes much longer to get things done/decided effectively or creates conflicts (thus creating a problem that wasn't there before). Now, please don't think I'm communist or anything; I just don't believe that everything should be so political.
The internet is about technology and information, and since the world contributes to these pools, I don't think it would be a bad thing for them to contribute to one of it's biggest sources.

I guess being human is not good enough anymore. But then again not much has changed still...

Chinese servers are already in use. 9down.com has both a Chinese and English homepage. Just use the one that works for you and leave other people alone.

You'll find a bigot in the Czech Republik. The cdr.cz bunch hates foreigners of any kind. "kcuF off". These jerks are no better than racists who don't like Blacks, Jews or another group. So you wanna get rid of these arse-----?

Everyone has a right say what we wish to say. However when you start terrorizing an entire nation, you had better be Da** ready to accept the consequences of your actions. We are not mindless mornons. The americans are going to make sure that each and every terrorist gets hunted down and shot to death.

After all. It's what people who terrorize people deserve. You claim responsibility for attacking our buildings and citizens? Well good. Because in the process you claim responsibility for starting a war. You made the first shot, not the Americans.

Suck on those lemons.

>> You made the first shot, not the Americans.

Already disproven. Terrorists were upset by American Government appointing America-Friendly dictators and destroying democracies.

The "first shot" was fired decades ago...but meh, terrorists are slow and took a while to act. :P

Maybe they were waiting for their problems to get fixed or something?

America has always been a beacon of freedom through representative governmenment. Ask the Japanese who after the reconstrction of the Marshall plan are now a premier capitalist nation. Sony, NEC,Yamaha,Nissan etc. Where would we be without the "inteference" of America?

Islamofascists (sic) only want to destroy other belief systems and the people who hold them.
Islam needs to go thru a period of reformation as did the Catholic and Protestant Churches. The terror we are seeing is the ignorance born of a hatred of man's natural progress. The coalition forces throughout the world have forced the world to see the true intent of the terrorists. Now even Middle-eastern countries would rather have a representatve form of government (such as the US and UK) than the current dictatorships. The world now sees good and evil and must take sides.

America may be trying now, but you've got a black history caused by your leaders, despite what you may think.

As I think I mentioned somewhere below in these ~hundreds of posts, terrorists would have chosen much larger targets if they had a beef with American people. After 9/11, a Canadian hacker was asked to test some American security, and found out he could break open a dam remotely, and the massive amount of water flooding out would have killed around ~3 million people.

They don't have a beef with most of the little guys(the people) - but it's obvious they want your government(or portions of it) down, or changed. So far they have aimed mostly at "rich, corporate" things, which indicates they don't like American corporations either.(And not liking your corporations is shared by a lot of people around the world. :P )

one sure way to eliminate all functionality of the internet is by introducing politics to it. lets not get blinded by what politicians want to make us believe. the USA doesnt control the internet and for sure the UN should NOT !!! the internet is to serve mankind as a whole, not the human nitty gritty pathetic arguments of race, faith, color, sex, religion, money or what so ever ! where mankind failed by exposing its high level of education by putting man on the moon, the same people are still killing other people over futile disputes. the other great step for mankind is the maintenance of a politically free internet. as borders diminish, distance becomes virtual, access to knowledge is garanteed not by heritage, riches or political preferences, religious prehistorical motives, or other puny little arguments, but by pure functionality of the internet as we have come to know it. it is the future of mankind. let us hope this time man will leap to a better and more humane life...

DIRKA DIRKA MOHAMMED JIHAD
DEATH TO THE INFIDEL

TEH LOLOMGROFLMAYONAISE

(request entire comment replies to this thread be deleted)

Mec-a-leck-ahi-Mech-a-Hiney-HO

OF course you want our comments deleted! It's because there is NO logic to your mantra of death. You cant argue for it, because there is no argument.

Ok, firstly I am going to say, once again, that America is going to totally detroy terrorists (and muslims) Why, you might ask? Simple. We don't take too kindly to muslims because they want everyone on this planet dead except for them. I'm sorry if this sounds "Racist" or anything, but I have to say that I am pretty racist when it comes to my hating everyone who wants me and everyone else on this planet DEAD!

WEIRD AL!!!

who's better then who? I'm American, born & raised in the USA and love it but come on guys & girls...

Argh! What is wrong with you people? All of you on both sides of the 'argument' are sitting here trying to say which person invented the router, which person invented http, which person invented blah blah blah....You are all so focused on the supposed details that you are totally missing the point of what the great United Nations is trying to do. The United States of America does not 'control' the internet. The people that create the policies, that work out the kinks, that get down and do the nitty gritty work on the evolution of the internet...these people just happen to be on US soil! Most of the organizations that do work on the structure of the internet are composed of many different cultures, and people of many different countries. They may not live in this country. They fly back and forth to and from the U.S. as needed. They have virtual conferencing over the same internet that they are trying to make better. And you know…the most important fact of all is that THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ISN’T A PART OF THE INTERNET!!! These are non-government organizations, run by ACADEMICS! These are the intelligent people of the whole world coming together to create the policies that make the internet safer for you and me. These are the brains of society working on creating new hardware and software to make the internet faster, more secure, and easier to use. And the whole ‘western civilization using up all the ip addresses’ thing. Look people. If you are knowledgeable of computers what-so-ever, you will understand the basics of IP addressing. We are currently in IP version 4. That means that the IP addresses look like this…192.168.1.1… You can only have 4 sets of numbers, and those individual numbers only go as high as 255. Some numbers are set aside for use by the government, some set aside by private companies, most of the rest are set aside for all other companies to set up domains for anyone who wants to set up a website. Well you have to realize that, even with the private public addresses aside, there’s only so much space in the IP version 4 scheme. And so what do you think we should do? Do we control everyone who owns private addresses to give them up so that countries who got a late start in joining the internet community have more available addresses? No, of course not. That’s not their right to take away what you already own. That’s communism. What should they do then? Simple. Make more addresses. And that is already in the works and has been for years. It’s called IP version 6. Don’t ask me why they skipped over version 5, that’s unknown to me, but what I do know is that IPv6 is going to open up billions or more of new addresses. What does it look like? Well, I don’t have a solid example handy, but I can tell you that it has 6 octets instead of 4 like IPv4 has…not only that but the ip address is no longer limited to numbers. It now uses the hex format to give us a much wider range of addresses. So instead of 111.111.111.111, we have 1BE.45A.4B4.98C.1BC.3BH That’s an incredibly rough example considering I don’t remember my hexadecimal from college, but you get my drift. The ultimate point here is that we don’t need to move or change what already works for everyone. The only reason some of you have a problem about it is because you are being told to worry about it by the UN, and you are believing that there really is a problem, when there is none.

Now, the computer details aside, lets focus on the argument that doesn’t even belong on this website.

Mr. Shonk? Your asinine, idiotic and misinformed statement about how the United States gives less aid than any other country in the world…I’ll tackle that one first. Firstly do you even understand what the GDP is? Gross Domestic Product. Do you realize that you cannot consider percentages when talking about aiding the poor? You have to consider the actual numbers…the dollar signs. We give money freely from our own paychecks, we don’t have to give money to the government to give money for us. Take a look at these figures.

-------------
• International giving by US foundations: $1.5 billion per year
• Charitable giving by US businesses: $2.8 billion annually
• American NGOs: $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
• Religious overseas ministries: $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.
• US colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.3 billion
• Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $18 billion in 2000
• Source: Dr. Carol Adelman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002.
While Adelman admits that “there are no complete figures for international private giving” she still says that Americans are “clearly the most generous on earth in public — but especially in private — giving”. Hence these numbers and claims may be taken with caution, but even then, these are high numbers.
--------------
Alright, that’s not enough? Check out this link, http://www.globalissues....umbersinChartsandGraphs

Personally I am sick of the politics, it is getting old. This is a pc related site. Go someone else to complain about the good ole United States. We are here as computer geeks, not as politicians.

Well said, Voyager4383!
I have little faith in the ability of the UN to administer, govern or manage ANYthing! Let the 'non-government organizations' continue their good works, unencumbered by layers of bureaucratic guana.

I believe that IPv6 has 274,941,996,890,625 possible IP addresses, vs. the 4,228,250,625 possible IP addresses in IPv4.

I echo Kimoeagle, very well said!

4,294,967,296 possible IP's, not 4,228,250,625.

Remember, 0 counts, so each byte has 256 combinations.

That also puts 6 byte IP's at 281,474,976,710,656 possible combinations.

>> Well you have to realize that, even with the private public addresses aside, there’s only so much space in the IP version 4 scheme.

Not really. Your IP should look something like "207.65.93.15________________" technically, to identify your computer. Go look at the following site, and find "Shields Up!"

http://www.grc.com/stevegibson.htm#projects
Direct Link: https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

The point of interest is the IP it grabs.

>> not only that but the ip address is no longer limited to numbers. It now uses the hex format to give us a much wider range of addresses.

Hex IS numbers. 100 is equivalent to 0x64. 0xA0 = 160, 0xFF = 255.

Good show chap!

D'oh!

You dullard,
your country gives more aid ("in actual numbers") because it's bigger. the % of GDP is the best measure because it's relative to country wealth and population. The UK, France & Japan give $25,170 million dollars (6,171 million more than america) with 47,219,255 less people, so you don't really do very well - but then we can't balme you for that because your thick!

Alright. Brass tacks time.

Who give a flying F***! In the long run, who cares who gives the most money to poor people! The fact of the matter is that money is being given! The question should be do these poor people actually get the money they are supposedly sent? Who knows! And for crying out loud, you dullard, you need to realize that the GDP is only measuring how much money is being sent through government means. The American people as a whole donate a much larger quantity of funds as individuals, whether it's through charities, or the aid networks where you adopt a child, and believe me. From personal experience from seeing good friends who adopt children: They send them extra money whenever they can. They send letters back and forth to each other. The kid’s write back thanking my friend's for their help, and that they used the money to help pay for schoolbooks, or cheap wrist watches, things they need and want. You can't honestly tell me that you are going to continue assaulting Americans like this just because of us giving aid to poor countries. Honestly buddy, you need to get your head screwed on straight. We have enough internal problems and poor people in our country (yes, we have our own poor. Imagine that, one of the largest countries in the world having diversity...wow!). We use our money to solve more of our own problems than we do to aid others. But then you really can't truly help others until you help yourself. What kind of people would we be if we just gave money because it was there, when we had our own problems to take care of?

You also need to understand that American is a gigantic melting pot. You may or may not realize this, but not everyone thinks the same in America. We all have the right to believe what we want to believe, and so some people, anti-Christian as they may be, tend to believe that others will take care of the poor and so they do nothing.

And now I want the God honest truth from you sir. Just what do you have against our country? No matter what happens, you are going to find something to complain about. If we end up giving the most aid out of anyone in the entire world populace, then you will say something about how we are polluting the environment, if we fix that, then you will complain about something else. Heck, if we were a perfect example of a country that everyone would want to live in. If we were perfect in every way, then the people in the world like you would still find things to b*tc* and complain about. Not to mention the fact that whatever country you live in is imperfect in their own ways as well, so I don't want to hear about how much better you think you are than us.

Oh yeah, don't forget the fact that we in the United States are a Constitutional Republic. We are free to be individuals, to earn and keep most of our income. We are able to have individual ideas, and if we are intelligent, then we are able to move above and beyond the mindless drones that wander the globe. We are not over taxed just so that the government can decide where all of our money goes. I don't want the government controlling every detail of MY life, do you? That's socialism, and that sure isn't the way we do things in my Country! Take everything everyone makes, and divide it up between everyone. PLEASE! That's where your GDP is coming in. All you countries' governments are taking all of your money and spending it on aid. We here in the U.S.A. are totally free to make our OWN decisions on where we want our hard earned money spent. Not everyone wants to go to college, so why should everyone in the entire country pay in order to make any joe blow decide he wants to go to college, only to drop out. Being able to pay your own way into and through college, helps to give each college student the drive they need to succeed. They really WANT knowledge, they EARN it.

Oh, and this Meucci thing? Please. You are trying to tell me that the man that created the idea of using a hollow pipe to talk to his wife from his basement laboratory was credited with the invention of the telephone? By the House of Representatives. Well I can tell you that a resolution by the House of Representatives does not mean that it is regarded as fact by any other government office, or even by the American people. Please...Alexander Graham Bell created the TELE-PHONE...The telephone that uses electronic signals to transmit and receive voice signals from across the globe. Are you trying to tell me that some dorky Italian inventor who made a hollow metal pipe to talk to his sick wife is going to be fully credited with the invention of the telephone? Please. It's not the idea of the telephone that counts when it comes to the invention of the actual machine! It's the first person to actively CREATE that idea into a solid machine or physical object while using the ideas of previous scientists. They are the one's who history remembers. The people who got up off of their rears and actively ACHIEVED something.
I would like to have seen this Meucci fellow create a hollow metal pipe that goes around the world to be able to talk to India. If that's the case, any kid with two cans and a string could be credited with the invention of the telephone.

Please, feel free to go ahead attempt to bash me in with your frivolous details. I'm sure you are going to attempt to do just that. Throw numbers at me like you know what you are talking about.

Close, but not quite. In the first octet alone, the values 0, 127, 224-239 and 255 are "special". 0 and 255 are broadcast. 127 is loopback. 224-239 are multicast. These are special in the TCP/IP stack itself, so they can't be used for any other purpose. That means, 237*256^3 at minimum (3,976,200,192 addresses), and only if you don't care about internet connectivity. There are also at least 97 IANA Reserved address ranges in that first octet alone. Many can probably be assigned and used on the internet, but some can't.

Ooh, nice, didn't know that.

I think stiow was implying your government sucks.

>> (yes, we have our own poor. Imagine that, one of the largest countries in the world having diversity...wow!)

That's not diversity. That's chance(of being poor). Diversity is generally thought of as a good thing, and in this case, it is not(so the word should not be used).

>> We use our money to solve more of our own problems than we do to aid others. But then you really can't truly help others until you help yourself. What kind of people would we be if we just gave money because it was there, when we had our own problems to take care of?

Canada has more problems that America does...or atleast more "not self created" problems. Actually, we probably have more self-created problems too, but we still give. Generous Canadian people don't generally have a lot of money though, due to us being taxed so high.

>> If we were perfect in every way, then the people in the world like you would still find things to b*tc* and complain about.

No they wouldn't. You'd be the pride of the planet. Every other would aspire to become like the great Americans.

>> I don't want the government controlling every detail of MY life, do you? That's socialism, and that sure isn't the way we do things in my Country!

Welcome to Canada man. A 15% tax on all products, and also a nice 40% income tax if you make a reasonble amount.

>> They really WANT knowledge, they EARN it.

Lots of Americans have drive. That's one dislike by many Canadians, as American corporations come up here and out advertise, service, and price us. It is a good quality though, and I think if Canadians had it we could do a lot of good.

>> Please. You are trying to tell me that the man that created the idea of using a hollow pipe to talk to his wife from his basement laboratory was credited with the invention of the telephone?

Apparently he completed working telephones, and sold them for inter-house communication. Guess he never realized that they could be used for inter-building or inter-town communication too. :P

TAPPA doesn't need your zero!

I quote TAPPA:

"And if the Middle East wants the zero they can have it!";)

Hey dude. I'm not being a smart-ass or anything, but I am curious about your country. Heck, I love Canada. Heck, I've got relatives who live in Canada! And I love Barenaked Ladies, an excellent Canadian band! So please, this isn't anything against you or Canada, keep that in mind:)

Ok, I'm curious. Do you guys still have a functioning army? I've heard that your army is going bankrupt because it's no longer receiving funds from your government. If so, that is such a dangerous thing for your country. Wow, I mean we here in America take pride in our soldiers, out military and everthing it stands for. It's kind of frightning to imagine that you guys up there no longer have any protection from outside forces. If there was a war, we would have to (but gladly) help you guys out, but we have enough property to have to protect, our forces would be spread a little thin if we had to help you guys out. No offense or anything dude, it's just a question...and a comment :)

Ah, yes, but there really are only a limited about of free ip addresses. A good example is my ISP...Bellsouth. They have a certain range of ip addresses that they own...or lease or whatever. let's say that it is the entire 207.62-67.xxx.xxx range. Not accurate, but a good generalization. At any given time they have both static ip addresses sold/leased to individuals and companies for web server usage, and the dynamic addresses used for dhcp for thier dial up and dsl customers. Anyway, the ultimate point is that the ip4 scheme has been working out for awhile for a few reasons. A private company can afford to have at least one ip address per public server. The company's modem link to the 'outside world' might only be one ip address. But what happens to the computers inside the company's routers? They can't all have direct, public ip addresses to the internet. They all communicate through the company's router and modem, and so they can all have thier own ip addressing scheme. Like a miniature scaled internet inside the company, using addresses that are supposed to be reserved or bought by other companies? At least I think that's how it works, I'm still a little fuzzy on all the networking stuff that I'm supposed to be learning in college :)

I do know, however, that ipv6 is supposed to help. This is taken directly from ipv6.org's website on the topic 'what is ipv6?'

"IPv6 is short for "Internet Protocol Version 6". IPv6 is the "next generation" protocol designed by the IETF to replace the current version Internet Protocol, IP Version 4 ("IPv4").

Most of today's internet uses IPv4, which is now nearly twenty years old. IPv4 has been remarkably resilient in spite of its age, but it is beginning to have problems. Most importantly, there is a growing shortage of IPv4 addresses, which are needed by all new machines added to the Internet.

IPv6 fixes a number of problems in IPv4, such as the limited number of available IPv4 addresses. It also adds many improvements to IPv4 in areas such as routing and network autoconfiguration. IPv6 is expected to gradually replace IPv4, with the two coexisting for a number of years during a transition period."

So I don't know. Argh, and I think I explained the ipv6 thing wrong anyway, I was trying to look for an example, but I ended up creating my own, and I think it's wrong. So here. Anyone that wants to know anything about ip version 6 should go to
www.ipv6.org
because they have more resources there than I can provide. Let them answer your questions :)

L8R...

No offense taken, and none meant. I find many of your posts well written and informative, but I also want to respond to them. :D

We don't have a strong army. We have a peace-keeping army mostly, and pretty much only enough soldiers to keep 3-4 small countries reasonably safe and at peace. At any one time Canada usually has atleast 1000 soldiers at home guarding it.

Months and months ago our PM(Paul Martin) got talked into increasing military spending. To my knowledge it was something like 15 billion extra over the next 5 years, and no more cuts(in order to sustain it).

Personally, I think our own people are a bigger asset to guarding us. We have hundreds of thousands of people that are skilled in the wilderness, something I'm pretty sure few Iraqi, Japanese, British, and French are skilled at. I also doubt most invaders have great skill in large unihabitted areas with lots of plants. Vietnam somewhat proved that point(the skill in wilderness part - not the unihabitted part).

Edit: And seriously, what do we have to fear? Most countries would be very upset if Canada was taken over. If the US took over Canada, you'd pretty much have umlimitted resources, which would frighten many and send terrorism through the roof. If Canada were attacked, we have a nice strong US below us ready to help(We do give the best deals on our resources to you guys, as opposed to ourselves). Most Americans, and I'm pretty sure countries like Britain, Australia - probably the entire EU actually - would rather see Canada independant. Terrorists probably would too, since we're kinda harmless this way.

With that considered, our army is better off creating peace, than guarding us from a threat other countries won't allow anyways. :)

It's a nice position to be in.

Well thanks for clarifying.

I hope Canada will be able to continue to help us in our fight against terrorism...by helping to beef up our border security on both sides. Anything to prevent terrorists from traveling back and forth between our two countries would be a big help, I'm sure.

Wow, and your edit about not having anything to fear? Wow, thats really a scary thought dude. My biggest fear for you is not really an attack from outside, but weaknesses from within.

And you'd better hope we can maintain our army in the meantime, considering our press is doing everything they can to tear it down.

A good analogy would have to be the Ostrich. Always keeping your head in the sand, and your butt in the air...is a dangerous policy.

If we're attacked, we're attacked. If there was an all out war, who has the resources? Canada and the US mostly, because we have the land. I mean sure, there's places like China/India too, but I doubt they'd be attacking us, so any small country would automatically have a disadvantage of resources.

If we're hit by terrorism...well, the common cold and drunk driving both each kill more people per year than terrorists do in most first world countries. Hundreds of thousands - many not even at old age. I'm not going to let the possibility that perhaps a bomb could shmack me bother me if I'm somewhere in this insanely huge country, when there's such a greater chance that I'll just die from getting sick, or a drunk driver will hit me.

Sounds bad, but it's true. You probably have 100000x the chance of dieing from a car crash or just being sick. I'd actually guess even more than that, and if you stay out of "risky" areas that terrorists might be after(anything that will make a statement about how "great" they are), it's fairly safe to say the chance is nil.

Ofcourse it isn't nil, but it just won't happen to me...and if it does - oh well, you have to die somehow.

Edit: Can you tell I don't have kids yet? :P
My opinion would change if I did.

Edit2: Also, I think a major ally against terrorists doing anything large-scale is Arabs. They really do have a decent religion, and aside from the totally insane extremists, they're mostly really nice people.(I mean, you do ofcourse get gerks in every crowd, regardless of religion)

If they really did kill millions in say...the US, before much, much, MUCH more hate was built up against you, you'd have pretty much every reasonable Islamic person on your side. Probably the entire world, except the terrorists, and the world would do what it could prevent it happening again.

But the way it is now...lots of countries that brew terrorists lose more people that 9/11 every day. They have no sympathy, especially for what they view as an illegal Iraq war.

Whoa...alright, I understand what you are saying dude, but (and I don't have kids either, I'm only 22 :) )but seriously. It isn't the variable number of people that die through terroristic murder in my country. I don't know, maybe you just would have had to have been here, but this attack happened in our most well known, and most populated city(at least in my eyes, I don't know the numbers, it's just how I grew up thinking that NYC was the biggest city in my country)! And it wasn't just some car bomb going off. You know, there is a huge difference between some guy blowing up a building in the middle of the country, that just doesn't get recognised as much. And that was a car bomb. What I am talking about is that our American Spirit was attacked. We americans have so much pride in our country. We are proud of all the good it stands for, for the freedoms that we have and we are dam* proud of the army that protects us. But when people start hijacking our passenger filled jet liners and within a few hours destroy the both of the world trade center towers, destroy a large part of one side of the pentagon, and then have a fourth plane on it's way to your nation's capital (thank God the passengers took back some control of the plane and were able to get it to crash before it got to washington dc)...I mean, how are we supposed to react? Like it's just some random terrorist attack on a country that's supposedly "too big for it's britches (slang term for pants..I think it's a southern thing)". The 9/11 attacks were just that. I am quite sorry, but you cross the line from being 'someone who is worried about the way america runs it's business' into a fully fledged terrorist, when you train for years to be able to take over airplanes and crash them into two of the largest and most well known buildings in America. I'm very sorry sir, but these 4 attacks were quite directed at harming our American spirit...not just damaging some buildings to make us think about thier situation. Yes, we hurt for a while, and some of the families who lost loved family members are still greiving, but we have mostly gotten over our pain. We have used the attacks on our country in order to fire up our spirit even more. We were attacked at our heart...and we are going to fight back. What I don't understand is why people around the world just can't see that fact? I mean, they attacked national monuments! Did they down a plane on the statue of liberty? Of course not. They attacked well known monuments that were filled with people. What if there was a meeting of congress, or a supreme court case in progress, or what if the president had been present in the white house. If that one plane hadn't been stopped it would have killed many important people in our government.

Now, I really want to know. How can you equate a terrorist attack like what happened to the U.S., to a drunk driver. It isn't about 'what are the chances that YOU will get struck by one of these bombs, or be in a building that gets struck by an airplane'. What it is about is pride in your country. Caring about the soverignty of your nation. I don't know why you aren't seeing that. Maybe you don't care about your country like we do? Do you have any feelings of pride for your country? What would it take to stir up your feelings and really make you mad at terrorists? Believe me...that has already happened to us...THAT is what drives us to destroy terrorism in the world. There is no place for small groups of terrorists who bomb and kill a country's CITIZENS!!! Why are the terrorists trying to make us hurt? Why are they attacking our souls like this? And just what do they expect to accomplish? And what is it going to take to make your people realize just what the hell is going on in the world? Is it really going to take mass murder on a grandiose scale to make the world finally beleive that something must be done? How many more people have to die in order for it to be wrong? Do we have to have a death toll number that goes above all other statistics in order for you to see that that what the terrorists are doing is WRONG?

God...why do most of the people in the world have to have such cold hearts. Some, not most, but some of you out there feel absolutely nothing for the people that died here in America. I don't understand that. Even before 9/11 happened here, I felt very upset for all the people who died in other countries because of terrorism and bombings. If some faction claims fame for doing one of these dastardly deeds...why don't you DO something about it? When are you going to get a kick in your complacency...when it's too late?

I really don't know guys and gals. I don't know what it is going to take for you all to understand what these people are doing. Is it really going to take a full scale attack on the good guys for the world to realize that the terrorists are claiming war on us? Everyone needs to really listen to thier own hearts and minds, and not listen to what the national and worldwide news media are saying. All of the media has thier own slant on the world...they might say one little thing that makes you think 'hmm...maybe they are right. Ha! I'm going to listen to everything they have to say to me, regardless of what my conscience is telling me.'

>>>Ofcourse it isn't nil, but it just won't happen to me...and if it does - oh well, you have to die somehow.

Wow...well I don't know anything about you or what you beleive in, but I am certainly going to pray that you don't get flamed or bombed by a terrorist...that would really be a worthless death, in my eyes. I hope everyone gets to live long an healthy lives, surround by thier loved ones. Kramy dude? Ya gotta get out of your little comfort zone. Complacency is really going to be your country's undoing.

I don't know what else to say...I've already said it all, as plainly as I can handle saying it. There really is no excuse why someone can't read what I said, and not be even partly touched. Unless you are already dead (or killed off your conscience...how can a person not care about what happens to another person...that's just beyond me.) Are people so caught up in themselves that they can't get thier heads out of the sand and look around?

>> I'm very sorry sir, but these 4 attacks were quite directed at harming our American spirit...not just damaging some buildings to make us think about thier situation.

Exactly. You hit it right on the nose - it definitely got your attention.(which in hindsight, appears to have been stupid of the terrorists. :P )

>> What it is about is pride in your country. Caring about the soverignty of your nation. I don't know why you aren't seeing that. Maybe you don't care about your country like we do?

Again, I think you hit it right on the nose. Canada isn't a "melting pot" like many other nations. We just accept that every Canadian is different, and every country is different. We have people from all over the world - why would anyone attack a place that has their own people living there?

>> Do you have any feelings of pride for your country? What would it take to stir up your feelings and really make you mad at terrorists?

I suppose if they did attack, it would have to be a very large one. Nothing under 100 will get my attention really. I think my barrier for caring is probably around the 50,000 mark, but perhaps higher. Still, as I mentioned above, if terrorists did attack us on such a large scale, I think the world would be quite a bit more upset than a few thousand(no offense). Even small countries that can't relate at all know that 50,000, or 100,000 is a rather large number to lose in an attack, even if they lose that many people every few weeks to sickness and disease.

>> Why are the terrorists trying to make us hurt? Why are they attacking our souls like this? And just what do they expect to accomplish?

Ahh, now you feel the same as many people do in poor countries...not the terrorists I mean - they're quite angry - but the people in small countries, with barely enough food, that can't do anything about it and only know that the "American corporation, Shell Oil" is taking all their resources and not helping them or their children.

>> in order for you to see that that what the terrorists are doing is WRONG?

Ofcourse it's wrong. Drunk driving is wrong, but terrorism is so much more so wrong, because it inspires fear in hearts, and affects so many. With drunk driving, there is no fear until it happens - but that doesn't change that it's more likely to happen to you.

>> God...why do most of the people in the world have to have such cold hearts.

Actually, I believe that's something to do with "Aspergers Syndrome". It's a form of high-functioning autism, and everywhere I go it seems like 50% of people have a few traits or others from it. Actually, it's pretty much 100% that have a trait or two, but it's only really visible when you get a couple dozen of the traits in a single person. I wouldn't be surpised if about 10% of North Americans had enough traits to be classified "Aspergers/Autistic"(which is pretty high), now that we actually know what it is in the last few years.

I'm not a terribly emotional person, but I know a few people that if you ask them about 9/11 they'll say things like "Yeah, so? I don't care.", which even to me seems a bit cold(although I understand where they're coming from).

>> When are you going to get a kick in your complacency...when it's too late?

It's already too late, at least on the domestic end of things. Pharmaceuticals and oil already own the world. I'm more worried about losing all my money(not that much :P ) than dying, since after I die I'm not exactly going to need it, or have any worries about this planet either.

>> Complacency is really going to be your country's undoing.

So true. We also have apathy too though, and lots of people that don't want to work(unlike me), so that's a rather uphill battle. :P

>> how can a person not care about what happens to another person...that's just beyond me.

I hope I explained that well enough just above. Aspergers has various affects, and I'm not familiar with them all, or even most of them.

For me I really like sorting things, and my passion is anything computer related. Also, I like all the TV remotes to be lined up with the kleenex box on the back of our couch, or it really irritates me a lot....LOT..

It's actually some problem with the brain connecting different regions. So since we already know the brain takes turns running your body, my emotional brain might be sleeping at the moment while I respond to this, and my logical one doesn't really know enough or have enough connections to get the point across that IT SHOULD WAKE UP to form a proper sympathetic response. This can actually be kinda useful in a mild degree, since I remain completely logical most of the time, and rarely if ever panic.

Edit: Also I just noticed I seem to respond systematically, while lots of seemingly "normal" people make long sentences and paragraphs.

I hope I don't reflect badly on Canada. Lots of people felt really sorry for you when 9/11 happened, and I know thousands of Canadians were at the blood banks right after they heard, wanting to help in any way they could since they couldn't actually get there.

But like I mentioned, Canada isn't a melting pot(although melting pots have different people too). We're all different, and we all accept it, and not just within the same country. I've actually found you make some very great points, but I also have to respond with my "heart", since that's what comes to mind.

The last I heard, shell oil was buying oil from poor countries, and provided them with jobs. Turning poor countries into rich companies. I don't understand where the news sources are that are making every one of our large corporations into 'boogeymen'. I'm sure there are some companies out there that have some practices that aren't totally kosher, but I don't know that they are all that bad. I mean, if your resources are being bought, and giving you money. What are these small contries' governments doing with the money we, and other nations, give them? I think there's something wrong there, where the money is being distributed. Goverments and drug lords?

Alot of people in the U.S. have privately funded or non-profit organizations that are sent out to poor nations. Christian organizations go out and help wherever they can, and not all of them go our JUST to preach to jesus-less people:) Seriously though, The U.S. sets up loan and grant corporations in a few poor countries so that the people can directly get money to help start or continue thier businesses. I mean, we help where we can, but we can't do everything!

I am a strong believer in the following age old adage:

"Give a man a fish, you feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

Now tell me where just giving money to poor governments and warlords is going to help the people of those countries. And it seems that even when we help out by starting farms, and that kind of thing. Someone in the government (usually a dictator) comes along and destroys all of our hard work for the people, and even kills us off!

Dude. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but most people here (mostly the older Americans who are totally filled with pride in our country, considering a few of them have gone through wars themselves) would totally kick you on your a** for your comment about the over 3,000 people that died in 9/11. I'm sorry, but 3,000 people is a s***load of people! I didn't even have 3,000 in my entire high school!!! Could you imagine 4 jetliners hitting a high school with people you know and care about in it?

Listen to this too. We lost over a trillion dollars in 9/11. And it took us a little over 2 full years to get our stock market back up to where it was.

Do you remember the Russian school where almost 700 children were held hostage in thier own elementary school on the first day of school, during an assembly in thier gym. The terrorists had rigged explosives in different places in thier gym, and held them there for, I believe, three days...in other words a total nightmare. The children were denied food, water, and bathroom utilities this whole time...even babies. Most of those over the age of 12 were simply executed. Some children were threatened with death simply when another child cried. There was no air-conditioning in this building, and some kids passed out from the heat, and those kids were quickly executed for passing out! Children who tried to escape were shot in the back. Various explosives were detonated just to prove the terrorists point. In the end around 300 of the 700 children were killed. Chechen terrorists were to blame for the attack...and they are now known Al-Quaida members.

Danny Pearl. He was beheaded on video for the world to see. It was done with a dull pocketknife. He was a reporter from the Wall Street Journal. Did he, just one lone man, deserve to die by terrorist hands? Is that one death justified?

Last year in Jordan, the terrorist Zarquawi and his 'minions of doom' attempted to kill over 80,000 people. They were planning on using a poisonous gas to be dispersed by explosions in the Jordanian intellegence building and various embassies throughout Ammam, Jordan. Fortunately the plan was stopped before they succeeded...if this plan HAD succeeded, would that have caught yours, and the world's attention?

Three good examples besides what happened in the U.S. We aren't just fighting for America. We are fighting to help free everyone in the world from terrorism. I'm sorry, but even a terrorist that kills one person, deserves to die in turn. You must be able to see that. How can you feel comfortable in knowing that you have an actual death toll number that is acceptable to you? I really can't believe that you feel that heartless. There's a saying, "Open the eyes of your heart", that's kind of fitting for what I am trying to describe here dude.

By the way...In the world trade center, there were people respresenting over 130 countries that died that day...not just americans. Never a truer melting pot that the World Trade Centers. Even muslims died there. Anyone who does not belive what they belive, deserve to die violently. You are not exempted from that list of infidels who must die, in their eyes. They really don't care who you are inside, all they care about is that you are not them, and so justly deserve to die.

"If I'm lyin', I'm dyin'."

>> Now tell me where just giving money to poor governments and warlords is going to help the people of those countries.

It won't, but that won't change the fact that in one country(forget the name) around 5 billion from shell oil went missing(last year), that was *supposed* to go to the people, rather than wherever it went in the government. There was a Canadian documentary about it, but I don't remember the exact details.

Shell was quite proud that it was investing hard in the country, with an astounding 35 million in aid, farming, and construction programs per year.

>> Did he, just one lone man, deserve to die by terrorist hands? Is that one death justified?

Ofcourse not. I think they're totally sick for wanting to inflict that much pain with a slow death.

>> if this plan HAD succeeded, would that have caught yours, and the world's attention?

Yes, but there's nothing I can do from Canada other than donate to aid agencies.

>> We are fighting to help free everyone in the world from terrorism. I'm sorry, but even a terrorist that kills one person, deserves to die in turn.

I agree - as I do for murderers.

>> How can you feel comfortable in knowing that you have an actual death toll number that is acceptable to you?

I never said acceptable. For me there's a certain point at which I would become seriously worried, and actively support hunting them down(considering the cost). But if I worry about terrorists right now...well, they're bad, but if I worry then they have succeeded. I don't want that, so why worry until they do something really big? As I mentioned, terrorism is bad - worse than most other ways of dying - but I DO have a much greater chance of being hit by a drunk driver, so let me reitterate.

Terrorism -> Very very bad.
Drunk Driving -> Bad.
Terrorism -> Few deaths here.
Drunk Driving -> Lots of deaths here

Fear caused by Terrorism -> Terrorists succeed.
Fear caused by Drunk Driving -> Do you fear driving? I don't.

So, reitterated, I agree with you, and refuse to let them affect me mentally when the chance they'll affect me physically is so low at the current time.

>> They really don't care who you are inside, all they care about is that you are not them, and so justly deserve to die.

Fine. If they feel that way and try to kill me, I'll fight back. But most terrorists don't start out so extreme(I mean, none of us are born like that - we're taught, and grow based on experiences). That's the problem - lots of countries have been fighting for a long time, so that's all that many know. Small terrorist groups that are(unsuccessfully) fighting for a cause grow and start doing worse things, until they emerge as awful groups trying to kill many.

That means they can be removed by fixing the problems creating them - or by just killing them all.

K, I gotcha. I just don't understand what it is that they want from us. They hate americans (and others) for some reason. Well what is it? What do the want from us, if not to simply instill fear in our hearts until they kill us? I don't see what is so important to them that they have to kill for it. They are going after America like we are all evil or something...like we are an abomination on earth, and I know that we are not.

I don't know..and honestly, I am getting tired of the constant political debate we've got going on here. I'm not mad or anything, I'm just tired of messing with it. Unfortunately some people are smart and know what needs to be done. The unfortunate part is that not one of those people are politicians.

I think I'm done posting, at least to the political stuff. It's gotten old, and I've got better things to do.

It's been nice, and interesting talking to you Kramy.

>> Well what is it? What do the want from us, if not to simply instill fear in our hearts until they kill us?

I don't know what they want - They all have different reasons I'm sure, but unfortunately, some don't have reasons anymore. I mentioned above that "lots of countries have been fighting for a long time, so that's all that many know", which is(again) unfortunate, but true. If you grew up with nothing but war and death, and were told it was all better before the Americans came, you'd grow to hate them irrationally, even if they have changed since then(or atleast their government has - it never really was the American people doing it, just the government, and I suppose the army).

It's unfortunate, but right now America seems to be receiving a backlash from decades ago - and responding to it by confirming terrorists' mostly false beliefs. It's only now they are able to retaliate, which is unforunate because in some places an entire generation grew up with that hate before it got noticed.

So I suppose we're both right technically. The original terrorists had logical reasons, and wanted what was best for their countries. Many of the new ones have grown up as a generation surrounded by hate, and only want to destroy the ones that caused their horrible suffering.

Too bad they can't turn back time, and hurt the ones that screwed their countries rather than today's innocents.

>> I am getting tired of the constant political debate we've got going on here.

Me too...I was just about ready to throw in the hat aswell, but I must say this has been good debate and conversation. It made me realize there's atleast one both intelligent and nice person in America - usually I just get bashed by Americans online, as my beliefs are rather hard for many to relate to. :)

>> The unfortunate part is that not one of those people are politicians.

Heh, yeah. I think I'm going to watch some Dr Who. That's always a funny comedy. :D

Nice and interesting talking to you too. :)

Im from the us but lets take this from you guys' british view. The us is the only thing that is stopping communism. All you english and other UN countries look at everything as its not my problem. If iraq started to take over all the middle east then it would take over europe and england. By the way iraq had enough bacteria to kill more than everyone on the face of the earth in a week. All getting put into their nice little missiles. And we monitor the internet to prevent terrorism. If the UN monitored the internet they couldnt do any better. And in when hitler was taking over Europe who protected you? The us. And when we found that england was unfairly ruling us in the us little farmers shot muscket balls at you. And then we still gave you freedom. Who said we ever had to build an internet in any other country? Im sick of searching in google and finding all kinds of websites in different languages. You europeans can have your own internet and i wont lose a second of sleep over it. And then we'll pull all the us companies out of europe too. Lets see no more microsoft, no more sony, no more red hat, no more texas instruments, no more... im not even going to list the rest.

Well, I hope no one ever shoots a "muscket" ball at me, whatever that is!

Sony is a U.S. company?

>> By the way iraq had enough bacteria to kill more than everyone on the face of the earth in a week.

That's funny, cause I heard the opposite. Oh well, the US also has that much bacteria. Actually, the US can kill everyone about 8 times over, and then launch hundreds of nukes to create a nuclear winter. :P

>> And in when hitler was taking over Europe who protected you?

Uh...ok. I guess I was under the false impression the US fought off Japan(mostly) while the rest of us went after Germany...or something.

You ever watched Band of Brothers?

Nope, not at all. But can I hazard a guess and say it was made in America?

Also note that I said "I guess I was under the false impression", which indicates I learned I was wrong. :P

I do know the US took a while to join in though, and they ended it by nuking someone.

I do like you crazy yanks - your all mouth and no brains (and certainly no trousers)! SONY is a Japanese company, and the English won the 2nd world war not the yanks - you need to buy some history books

Heck, who are we to decide what was right and wrong based on what happened in the past. What's past is passed.

That and I really don't think WWII could have ended as well if we hadn't done everything we did...and we certainly did more than nuke the Japanese. You have to remember, the only reason we attacked Japan is because they attacked Pearl Harbor. The unfortunate thing is that most people look up thier information on the web, and discover only half truths, and partial lies. If you want the real story, look it up in a library. (heck, I take that back considering that some countries [Egypt] teach thier students that Israel doesn't even exist as a country, so you can't totally go by books.) We really must learn to fully reasearch all the truth behind the world's***ory. Everyone has thier slant on it to make thier country look bigger and better than everyone elses. I remember learning in school about the world, and I heard about all the views. Where the U.S. won, where the U.S. lost...where we were right, where we were wrong...I learned about everything, and I only graduated out of high school in 2001!

Argh, I don't know. I am really getting to the point where I don't care anymore. I'm young, but I just can't handle the stress from all the crap that's happening in the world. Unfortunately the world doesn't work the way I wish it would. I just want everyone to get along, but usually when I say that, someone comes along and says that I am being childish, and thinking with the 'mind of the child' Well I'll be dammed if that's not the type of mindset we should be in! Why must we be to hateful towards one another? Why does this Earth have to have the problems we have? I swear I wish there were times we could get ever mind on this earth to meet up somewhere (it would kinda smell like burning batteries, but I digress) so that we can all just sit down and come up with a worldwide solution that we all can live with. One that doesn't involve death, hatred, and for the lack of a better world, a world without evil. I'm not preaching my Christian beliefs or anything, that is beside the point. The point is that there are people in this world who want us all quite dead. What are we going to do about those people? And what is going to have to happen to bring peace to our world? I'm telling you that it isn't going to happen, and when it does, it's going to be the end of things.

It's very unfortunate, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

We are a sad sad race. I'm not all too surprised at all if any passing alien race comes by and says "Well flerk that! We aren't going there! Those people aren't civilized!".

Sad, but true. If we really look at ourselves as a whole from an outside prospective, we, as a WHOLE, do not belong on this planet. We bicket too much. It's giving me a headache :)

Well said, and I agree. Humans do bicker too much, but we war aswell. I'm guessing that's part of the reason we haven't made contact with any aliens.

On an interesting note, "extinct" species keep popping up in the middle of nowhere away from humans. I wonder where they're coming from? ;)

Kramy seems you are wrong an awefull lot.

I have no idea how to respond to that, since you never actually post your opinions.

Edit: Oh wait, that was an opinion. :P

Don't respond that's the point! Your comments are usually without knowledge and are pretty stupid! Go back and read a few of yours it does bring out your ignorance, but then as you say you are from Canada.

Nuked them twice!

And naturally, all Canadians are stupid and ignorant, since we ride Elk to school and live out in the boonies. -_-

Hey...wha...damn, where'd I get this computer? O_o

well lets see here... as far as I know...
Car........................usa
Phone......................usa
Plane......................usa
Home computer..............usa
TV.........................usa
Light Bulb.................usa
Artificial Heart...........usa
Air Conditioning...........usa
Calculator.................usa
Cellular Phone.............usa
Escalator..................usa
Fiber optics...............usa
Flashlight.................usa
Optical laser..............usa
Liquid crystal displays....usa

Need I go on ffs!! USA inventors gave you all this and the internet too. And yet they still hate us lol!! Don't hate Appreciate!!

I'm an American...but excuse me....for a moment. It was the Middle East that gave us a written language and the principles of math, including the zero, a necessary placeholder, among many other things, thousands of years ago. Without much of what they gave us, you wouldn't have any of your toys.

I hate to bring this up, but just as a start, your Car was first invented by a Frenchman(steam)..while the first internal combustion car came from German inventors.

The phone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell, a Canadian.

Someone below mentioned fiber optics came from Britain.

I don't think people hate America because you've invented stuff. I think most people hate Americans because many of you don't think the rest of the world has invented stuff, or done anything, or deserve stuff.

In many cases, other countries have actually been more inventive, and far more productive if you consider ecological concerns and things.

I recently heard a rumour a Canadian company found a way to create a "solar paint" that absorbs energy like a solar panel, and can be painted on houses, cars, etc. Once the pattent clears in another 5 years though, I'm just sure some American company will come along and offer them $2,000,000,000 for the rights, and mass produce it as "America's new invention that will save the world".

Not that that's a problem though, but Americans should be a bit less arrogent and recognize other people are doing things aswell, and quite often share them completely free.

Edit: Another thing some Canadians did was prove it's possible to send electical current ONLY through a few select molecules, and not others. Molecular computers...decades off, yet already working aslong as it's only a dozen molecules. :P

Oops! There goes the calculator. First one invented by the Babylonians about 300 B.C.....then of course, there was the Chinese abacus, among other types of calculators. And, what was being invented in America in 300 B.C.?

Calculator(MACHINE) Not some beeds on a string but if that is what you use today no wonder you want our internet!

William Seward Burroughs Born 1857 Rochester, N.Y - Died 1898
In 1885, Burroughs filed his first patent for a calculating machine. However, his 1892 patent was for an improved calculating machine with an added printer. William Seward Burroughs invented the first practical adding and listing machine - National Inventors Hall of Fame.

Alexander Graham Bell was a Scottish-born American! Born in 1847 Alexander Graham Bell moved to the USA where he invented the Phone on March 10, 1876, in Boston, Massachusetts.

No I hate to bring this up but my car uses gas not steam but if you wanna use a steam car go ahead lol! I'm talking about pratical and well used inventions not steam cars and counting devices on strings here fokes. lol you guys are making my side hurt from laughing!!! Maybe they do need the internet more than we do. We will just invent something better.

Everything is based on something!!If the USA didn’t exist something’s would just sux! And if the Middle East wants the zero they can have it! Math is a logical progression and would have been adopted and developed by any long standing culture.

Fiber Optics was a USA invention..
In 1958, at the US Army Signal Corps Labs in Fort Monmouth New Jersey, the Manager of Copper Cable and Wire hated the signal transmission problems caused by lightening and water. In 1961 and 1962, the idea of using high purity SiO2 for a glass fiber to transmit light was made public information.

In additon, i think the square root and negative numbers were the greeks to claim. although mideast had their language, it is hardly the only one though.

God gave Adam life, which gave Steve his rib of life, who progressed somehow to develop families in multiples, who multiplied and multiplied and multiplied.. Who was told to go learn by almighty God, who gave individuals the equipment needed to produce everything they've accomplished today with the knowledge and know how to get it done? So by that alone, God gets the credit for anything and everything ever invented and claims all rights and patents for himself. So shut up about WHERE something came from, because it didn’t COME from any one country. It came from individuals all around the world who originated in one place. There was a time when no one lived in the Americas, so they came from somewhere! Who really is American or German, or Afghanistan, or Russian, or Canadian? Shut up, you all are Gods so get on your pulpit and preach sharing to one another and forgiveness. ;x Without what God has given us, we'd have no toys. He deserves the credit, as he has the ultimate nonopoly on every business, as his small assembly lines continue to grow in the marketplace.

It took a concept of numbers and a zero for a placeholder...and you can thank the Arabs and the Indians for that. Without them, your Mr. Burroughs wouldn't have gone far. Laugh at the beads if you will, but in individual skilled in their use could out-calculate a person with a calculator.

I cite:

How does the speed of abacus use compare with that of an electric calculator?

Contests have been held between users of the Japanese abacus and an electric calculator.For addition and subtraction the abacus user was much faster than the calculator user, but for multiplication and division the advantage of the abacus was less decisively demonstrated. There is an International Abacus Association which has met 14 times, the last time in Toronto, Canada in June 1998, where competitions of various kinds are held.

And, I don't want your Internet, I merely stated that if an international group formed one, I'd want to have access. That way, I'd still have access, after ours is censored to a point it's useless...and yes, America is going toward censorship in a hurry.

I am sorry that you are unable to equate "internal combustion" to gasoline, Dumbo. I stated "internal combustion" was used in the German vehicle...in fact, THREE German vehicles...all of which used gasoline. Of course, the diesel engine was German, too.

And, looking at your post, it's obvious you didn't invent spelling, either.

Check with your math professor. Without the zero, or placeholder, math, as we use it would be impossible. Do some reading. Is there a math professor in the audience who can help this guy out???

Likewise, the U.S.A. has only been around a bit over 200 years....and there were many things invented long before that...which formed the foundation for further development.

Mr. Bell probably already had invented the telephone, but waited to announce it until he moved to the U.S.A., so it would be an American invention.*LOL*

Whoever gave you life is probably wondering why...if they're having as much trouble trying to figure out what you're saying, as I am.

And the "Adam" and "Steve" thing sort of confuses me, as well. Is that from the "San Francisco Version?" Doesn't sound like the "King James Version."

I guess Steve was Adam's kid or something?

I dunno, but I would have given more credit to Nature, since I believe in evolution, and since even in the last hundred years we've seen animals evolve and adapt.

Someone below also said the original concept came before even 1900. I make no illusion of saying "I know much about fiber optics", but am pointing things out that people said incase others don't actually feel like reading hundreds of comments. :P

wav, who wrote about "Adam and Steve" doesn't appear to have evolved very much. Like you, I also prefer the evolution side of things..

"For more than one century, everywhere but in Italy, Bell has been considered the inventor of the telephone. Meucci was recognised as the first inventor of the telephone by the United States House of Representatives, in House Resolution 269, dated 11 June 2002."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci

of course meucci was italian

(double post sorry)

"For more than one century, everywhere but in Italy, Bell has been considered the inventor of the telephone. Meucci was recognised as the first inventor of the telephone by the United States House of Representatives, in House Resolution 269, dated 11 June 2002."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci

of course meucci was italian

I think Steve was Jesus's red headed step brother. Some guys came knocking on my door and asked me if I found Jesus. and I replied..
"Is he lost again?! Damn.. if you find him tell him he still owes me twenty bucks."

well said

Nicely putting everyone in their place. :P

Good job. :)

lol dude get out side and get social your such an angry little poster. little math geek lol

I spent a lot of social time outside. Now, I'm old enough that I'm retired and can afford the luxury of being idle. Math is not my forte, but I was a journalist and editor for many years and spelling and history are my interests. During my working years, I lived and worked in five different nations and learned respect and tolerance for other cultures. Also, I learned a bit about the accomplishments and contributions other nations have made to mankind.

It just elicits frustration when someone thinks "internal combustion" means steam driven, or states that the abacus has anything to do with beeds(sic) on a string....or that a placeholder, such as the zero, is unnecessary for math calculations

all free?

i paid for it myself... so, nobody fool...

I think the rest of the world should come up with their own Internet. When they do, I'd sure like to make sure I can gain access to it. Why? At the rate our civil liberties are being "modified" to "protect" us here in America, it won't be too long before Homeland Security and the Department of Justice limit our website access to Rev. Jerry Falwell, Disney, Republican National Committee and Fox news. Everything else will be blocked.

Well the UN can suck it.

The United States built and started the internet.

Like someone else said. If you want it build your own you freaking hosers.

What is with everyone thinking that they are owed things? People need to learn to work hard and do stuff yourself. Quit acting like a bunch of slackers and trying to sponge off everyone else.

As long as the damn thing works, i don't give a **** who owns the thing! :)

Until the UN decides it doesnt like you and shuts off your entire country from the internet. Its all a control game.

Or, you could just change "UN" to "US" and keep the same statement. Politics is all about control, greed and power.

Wrong! We dont do things like that.

Sure we don't. Buy yourself a history book or two. We did it to the native Americans who where here, originally. We did it to the slaves we had in America. We did it to the Marshall Islanders, after using their islands for nuclear experiments, then moving them back there. We did it to Japanese Americans, during World War II, seizing their assets and putting them in camps...releasing them without compensation, after the war, when they were at fault for nothing. We did it in 1983, when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam in Iraq...and we were providing him with military assistance...and the Contras in Central America. Every heard the term, Banana Republic"? How would you like your country run by United Fruit Company? Read and learn your history. And, remember to read all the history...because what you read in school was "approved" history. As my old college history professor admonished about trusting one source, 'Remember, history is written by the winners." So, read more than the "approved" version.

And again, We dont do that.

Gee...you live in a wonderful little Fantasyland. It sounds like you're very happy there...and your politicians appreciate your blind faith. You have quite a sense of humor. I like that!

I find it very interesting that the yanks are being so defensive over the Internet, but then again they are doing the same with Unocal on the same grounds - Xenophobia!!!!

Seems pretty justified to me if most of the world "hates" us.

It doesn't matter, does it. The US will not give up ICANN. Ever. End of story. They may add some int'l "flavor", but why would you build a bunch of infrastructure and give it away?

If you don't like our internet, build your own.

Whether or not the internet originated, or came to conception in the US...does NOT mean it's "your" internet...it's not a US owned product or service, and it's VERY much an international product...so saying moronic things like "our internet", just proves you to be fairly uneducated...*sighs*...Americans tend to be very possesive, over things they THINK belong to them...as someone pointed out earlier, alot of the things that you Americans THINK you created, were in fact invented in other countries...this whole argument is moot...the internet is not "owned" by anyone, it doesn't "belong" to any single country...I will say this, though...the US gov't DOES want more control over the net, and recently said it wants complete disclosure over what passengers on airliners are doing with their laptops, online...how many rights infringments are Americans willing to accept, in the name of "the battle on terrorism"? Answer that question, and get back to me...

Dr. tamahome320: Thank you for your detailed report on possesive Americans.

A committee of people smarter than you voted and think you should stop being so condescending and not to use so many "quotations" because your ideals about owership would overthrow world goverments and send the world into anarchy.

This argument is no better than who should take credit for the first flight. You got those punks out in North Carolina that think they can take all the glory simply because the Wright brothers flew it there for the first time? What about where it was built? The plane was built in Dayton! But both states still say they were the first in flight and silently ignore each other on the issue it seems.

Bottom line is the Internet was born, designed, created, started for the first time on American soil. Other countries have developed nothing more than EXTENSIONS of the original by adding more features to it.

On a final note, this has nothing to do with with any war so why did you bring that up for? This is America, you have no privacy and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

Wow, he wrote a decent civilized post and you respond to it like a moron with nothing more than attacks. If you had actually answered his question in an "ok" fashion, you would have gained my respect. Now though, I think you're a complete and arrogent idiot.

I was attacking his condescending over-tones in talking about Americans like he knew it all. You made good posts, I agree with you.

It might have something to do with the fact that we are tired of being told that WE are the ones with the problem. Noone seems too concerned about anyone else... what about the terrorist's arrogance.

Yeah, well...when most of the world thinks you're to blame, I think it's time to reflect.

To blame for what exactly? What did the US do thats so bad? Please explain that one to me.

Does it matter? They blame you for something. Perhaps you should ask them or listen to find out.

Actually, listening is rather hard considering your media(It's rather government controlled...no offense).

yer and we british only built the thing it runs on dumbarse

Try again. Texas Instruments invented the modern transistor. I wonder where they are based at....D'oh!

have a look at this http://inventors.about.c...ary/weekly/aa050298.htm
its the first programable computer and guess wot. the inventor is german!

"Konrad Zuse completed the Z3 in 1941. This was the world's first electronic, fully programmable digital computer based on a binary floating-point number and switching system."

Tell me. Did this computer have the ability to run Windows XP? No. Did this computer have the ability to communicate with the rest of the world? No. Did this computer even have the ability to talk to other Z3 computers? No. Did this computer really have anything to do with what we are talking about?

That German built a giant house sized calculator. I am talking about PERSONAL computers that changed the way the world worked forever. To even further squish this it all took place well before even the ARPANet first went live in October 1969, much less the Internet.

I think the guy means HTTP, HTML & the URL concept you stupid mary queen.....
Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web, defining HTML (hypertext markup language), HTTP (HyperText Transfer Protocol) and URLs (Universal Resource Locators). He is currently the Director of the World Wide Web Consortium, the group that sets technical standards for the Web. Biographies on Berners-Lee and articles/books written by Berners-Lee.

To high up the ladder my friend. I am talking low-level servers that route data to the rest of the world. What good are HTTP, HTML, URL, etc. without the flesh and blood technology behind it? If America does such a horrid job at running the Internet then the rest of the world can build their own.

Think about it, why does the rest of the world need control? The only thing I see coming out of that is s*** like world-wide banks...or if the UN did control you could even pull something off like "The World Bank" which would manage everyone's money. Would you want that? Even further you could bring up things like international currency and exchange rates would mean nothing anymore.

It was also virus proof, and spyware immune... sometimes, low tech is the better tech... heh

Think of the time, 1969. Most people think of Woodstock. It was by no means immune. All of the users way back in 69' must have only been military (Al Gore anyone?) There was no one around to abuse the system, or exploit the bug.

>> Did this computer have the ability to run Windows XP?

That's a stupid question. A dozen years in either direction, and we won't be able to. Actually, probably even less, since processors are going 64bit now, and Windows XP != Windows XP 64bit.

It was a bad example Kramy, you got me. I don't know if you realize the real point of that post, but if you cannot see past it I understand.

I do realize the point, but I disagree with it. :P

I suppose technically IBM should be given credit, and they have and will be remembered. But it doesn't hurt to remember who *tried it first*, even if they weren't nearly as successful.

We all build on ideas from the past. If we don't remember them, we're going to be doing a lot of extra work we don't have to.

Yeah dumba** America. We only built the damn thing you twat.

And then used technology from multiple foreign bodies to improve it, as other people mentioned. :/

dumba** america. Thinks it can run the world.

We could if you'd just let us! LOL

As opposed to Arabs, who slaughter people who disagree with them?

*starts scribbling*

-Arabs slaughter people.

The internet certainly got it's start in the US, but the vast majority of internet users are neither in the US, nor American. It's an international system, and should be internationally governed with input and control by all the nations who use it.

Fiber optics which are a fundamental aspect of Vast high speed data transfer was invented and developed by BRITISH Telecom. It was given to the world royalty free as a gift, thereby allowing the development of what we see today.

The internet is Global, and the selfish americans as usual think they have the rights to it.

It isnt and wont be controlled by the US, and even if they try the government only handle the trafic routers, they dont as such control it.

They might be able to dictate what its citizens can and cant do, but they cant tell me.

Its true information is power, i just dont think they can manipualte it to how they want to for it to be any use to them. American and inteligence is not 2 words i can think to put in a sentance at the same time.

Actually, Alexander Graham Bell invented fiber optics in 1880, but the idea wasn’t thoroughly considered until the late 1970’s. Alexander Graham Bell invented fiber optics as a way to communicate that was his better than his other invention, the telephone. His invention of the "photophone" didn't become popular because the telephone proved to be more practical.

In 1977 scientists at General Telephone and Electric sent the first live telephone traffic through fiber optics.

The British invented the US, The US should be controlled by Britain if you all want to be "we made it so we keep it". The US have to realize that there are more people that dont want to speak english than there are US people. Having the internet controlled by a non US governing body can only be a good thing. unless you can point out why it isnt?

There was this thing called the Revolutionary War where the British got kicked out because we didn't want you bloats running the show. The mere fact you said Britian 'invented' the US makes my stomach hurt. I bet you think Ben Franklin 'invented' electricity too! Edit: If you want the internet then come and take it sucka'

he discovered electricity, if ur stomach hurts its cause it is hard for you to digest the truth.

Ha! You actually answered the Ben Franklin thing. I already knew that dopie, I was just making fun of your retarted comment before last about Britian inventing Americans. If you are the truth then I am really sick now.

Hahahahahaha!

The British invented the U.S.

LOL whatever.

What actually happened is we kicked the crap out of you. LOL

So then maybe the UN is staging a revolutionary war.

It fits with the logic that came out of your mouth(fingers).

Or maybe you totally didn't get it. Then you say something like that and put '(fingers)' at the end like I won't quite catch on to your clever use of words?

How could the UN stage a Revolutionary War from New York anyway?(the city).

Ben Franklin merely proved the there was an electrical charge in lightning, he didn't discover electricity.

I'm not the one that jumped to two sides of the fence in the same thread. Don't play it off, be a man and accept it.

Be a man? I bet you still live in your parents house fewt.

We invented the damn internet. It's ours and so are the computers that it runs on. FU UN!

if "we" are british then your right, but that dont mean that we should keep it.

http://inventors.about.c...l_british_inventors.htm

You might learn a thing or two about how great britain is, or just how crap the US is.

If I recall correctly the internet was born in AT&T labs (American company) by two American engineers that were developing it for American Universities. Who gives a sh*t who came up with fiber optics, routers, etc. We wouldn't need them if there was no internet...

the Brits came up with the World Wide Web... which accounts for most of the internet use in the US.

Yeah, the US came up with the internet... but not the most widely accepted method of using it.

Well, that's not really what I said. I said that I wouldn't be willing to allow computers in the US to be controlled by any other entity. However, the internet is not an American Institution solely. I know it used to be ARPANET but that was a long time ago.

What would Al Gore do?

IF I was the American Government, I would be hard pressed to give up control of computers in my country to some UN Council or other.

you dumb asses

the americans would keep theyr computers

but international computers would take over theyr
job

it doesnt realy matter what america thinks anyway

if the rest of the world wanted to do different

they could just do it
and bypass the american servers

and if they realy wanted to be twats they could firewall america off from the rest of the world

something you americans dont seam to realise is
the world doesnt revolve around your asses

you are just a small piece of a larger puzzle

like the rest of the countrys

that just happens to control the root servers atm

Who says that it would be a bad thing for other contries to have their own traffic servers? It might help free up resources on the ones that are located and maintained in the US. Plus it shouldn't matter who has control over the Internet....It should matter what is done to improve the damn thing. I agree that the servers in the US should continue to be maintained by the US, possibly for security purposes. I think it would be perfectly fine for the UN to decide that the other contries can create their own servers and have them compatible with the ones anywhere else. The Internet needs to be improved big time...but lets not forget that there is always someone out there that may be able to fix a lot of problems and just doesn't have the opportunity to do so. It could be some 15 kids in Asia, China, Japan, Britan, etc. Everyone should just get off of the whole control thing and invented thing and just be happy that whoever helped create the damn internet for you to complain, b****, and argue about this stuff.

I say let other countries create servers of their own to help improve the Internet.

if i remeber correctly some wacko liberal named al gore invented the internet...

as it's been said before IF YOU DONT LIKE OUR INTERNET GO BUILD YOUR OWN..

what a bunch of jealous punks..everyone's got to have a piece of our pie.. and if we dont give it to them, they cry and whine about it.

it's america who gives out the billions of dollars in aid, it's america who is first on the scene to help clean up after nature strikes, it's america who goes to countries were helpless souls are being slaughtered and we stop that.

WE are the saviors of this planet.. what does your country do?
what does china do? except breed and polute?
what does france and germany do, but b**** and moan about everything??
what does pakistan and india do, but fight over land
what does isreal and palistine do but fight over land...

what does canada and mexico do but mooch off of america economy and military and then be ungrateful about it..

America is the greatest country.

lets not forget that

its America that causes 25% of the world's pollution

lets not forget the whole world agreed to sign up to cut this

apart from AMERICA!!!

so its not America saving the world its America destroying the world and not giving 2 s***s

Here We Go

America
Population of the world 4.6%
CO2 Emissions 24%

Europe
Population Of the World 6.3%
CO2 Emissions 14% (and falling) !!!

China
Population Of the world 21%
CO2 Emissions 13%

so there u go china don’t just breed and pollute

despite having a fraction of the population of
china the usa pollutes twice as much

China and the EU, both lesser polluters than the US, have one thing in common: They are both committed to further reducing their rate of emissions. Despite economic growth China has cut emissions by 17% since the mid 1990s. The odd one out is the USA. Immensely richer than China, but with less population than Europe, it emits more harmful chemicals than both of them. In addition, it has so far stubbornly refused to endorse international protocols designed to reduce such emissions. The world looks on flabbergasted as the world's greatest polluter cares not to take care or responsibility in the face of international pressure.

European Environment Commissioner Margot Wallström says 'But this ignorant, short sighted and selfish politician, long since firmly jammed into the pockets of the oil lobby, clearly couldn't care less. The talks in Bonn in July must now concentrate on world action independent of the U.S.' "

US pulls out of Kyoto Protocol

"George W Bush has ... walked away from his international obligations, tearing up international treaties like the Kyoto Protocol and ABM treaty, which, however imperfect, have helped bring peace and environmental protection. The least we can say is that he has embarked on a dangerous journey. Why?

The answer is corporate payback. This has been the defining trait of President Bush's administration. His election was a straightforward capitalist venture for the energy corporations. Oil, gas, coal and nuclear companies are the power behind Bush; together, they donated more than $50 million dollars to put him in the White House. As soon as he was elected, it was payback time and Bush declared the Kyoto Protocol on reducing carbon-dioxide emissions dead and buried.

The message was: 'US corporations have the right to pollute the entire planet. The people and the environment don't matter.'"

Read this little boy
and before you go spouting off how great your country is get the facts

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html

read it from top to bottom

no I don’t hate America btw
I just think you are un educated self centred
and money grabbing

There are some things more important than money
and one of them is having a planet to live on

Oh and that the American interpretation of capitalism is bent and up for sale to the highest bidder

A reply to your laughable comment about giving loads out in aid
You actually give less than the entire developed world per person

The American government is notoriously stingy with its foreign aid, giving just 0.2% of GDP to poor countries every year. Even when Americans’ ample private donations are added in, America still falls near the bottom of the rich-nation pack in generosity to those abroad. Yet American voters believe they are absurdly generous. A 2001 poll showed that they think 24% of their federal budget goes on foreign aid, a figure that would amount to more than 4% of America’s GDP. Given that perception, it would be difficult for Mr Bush to agree to substantial spending increases, much less get such an agreement through Congress—especially with a budget deficit expected to top $400 billion this year.

we have our own internet
internet means interconnected network

you think america came and built the networks all around the world?

we dont have to link with you if we dont want to
and vice a vercer

Actually, you said we emit more pollution? Both of them together add up to 27% versus our 24% so you are wrong..

haha, just messing. 8)

Also, we "pulled out of the kyoto protocol"

seems like over populated china's dumb arse needs to trying "pulling out" more often too.

ok, i kill me! muhaha

yeah i'm gonna believe what that anti-usa web page says..
my info says china pollutes more.. and they have over 1 billion people..
look at a map of polution, you'll see china is almost covered in red/black (red/black being bad)
yes america is a big polluter, not disputing that, but china is worse..

and you come with this Gnp crap.. what if we didnt give squat? how would you like that then? how would the tsunami vics feel?

we've given billions and billions and billion to africa for the last 40 years..
we didnt have to give ANYTHING.. but we do.

you've got N.korea, china and iran threating nukes.. guess what your little kyoto treaty wont mean squat if one of those POS countries start firing nukes..
that's who you should turn your anger to.. not the USA

Wow...you're a racist twat...amazing how a forum topic about THE INTERNET quickly turns into a hate-fest, with America against the rest of the world...unbelievable...

If there was no USA we wouldn't be in this situation. No one would really have nukes, and no one would be wanting to use them. Then again, I suppose with no US there'd be a large Japanese Empire by now. :P

Oh well, w/e, you come off like a moron. A good, positive reflection of Americans, I'm sure. :/

I don't know about Mexico, but I know a whole hell of a lot of Canadians that think Canada's economy would be in a better spot without the US. Personally, I agree. We give the US near-free oil and gas, power, and water, while we all pay through our teeth. To reward us for our loyalty, they b**** about us and destroy hundreds of thousands of our jobs any way they can every year. And if they get a chance to close the border to a superior product coming from Canada, they will, just destroy billions of dollars in revenues every year.

Thanks America! We love your great generosity! Now quit screwing the rest of the world, and maybe you won't have terrorists planting bombs up your a$$.

Terrorists aren't *usually* irrational. If they were, they would go for much larger targets that kill millions. Strategic picking clearly says they're trying to get you to listen to a point...

>> I second what the guy below said.

im not angry

you americans are a paranoid country

and its your paranoia that gets you into trouble

look at the way you all got paranoid after the twin towers

london was bombed last week you dont see them all panicing

your info is wrong

the stats i gave you are fact

and is common knowledge

apart from to americans ofc

your country is the no1 poluter by far

and there is no worming out of it

hardly
im the same race as most americans

im just stateing my views

and in my view

most americans

are self centred and have no idea whats going on in the world

Quote

Wow...you're a racist twat...amazing how a forum topic about THE INTERNET quickly turns into a hate-fest, with America against the rest of the world...unbelievable...

we are the saviours of this planet!!

hehe you remind me

of

Team America!!

besides the charitable $$ american gave out, they also gave out $300+ billion to sponsor a meaningless war and helped tens of thousands of people to end their lives fast and furously.

without the chinese, you americans probably are still reading your family letters from the hides of sheeps and pigs. You also probably still hand copying books if it is not for the chinese invented the printing technology. without the chiense inventing the gunpower you americans are probably still using bows and arrows hunt for your next dinner. It is also the chinese firstly invented the idea of rockets (although the guys died during the experient). Germans improved on the idea and americans took the result.

btw, i heard that during the cold war U.S built a enormous spy network. They not only use it to monitor the communist countries but also their european allies for industrials spying. Hmm, that could be interesting since most of the hi-tech in use today first appeared during those years.

people were trying to KILL US!!!!!!
you dont think we have a right to be a little paranoid about it?????
what you dont understand is if our government didnt take strong actions, the people of this country would lynch him.. and say he didnt do anything to protect us, or if he did, then it wouldnt be good enough.. so our gov. had to take strong action..

as for london.. yeah i read the news, i see the firebombings, i see the attacks on muslims..
yeah i see JUST how they are..

take your BS elsewhere.. i know what i am.. i know how good my country is...
and if america is sooooo bad and our way of life is sooooo bad.. then why do imigrants from all over the world pour into THE USA every freaking day?? i mean if we are soooo bad and people hate us soooo much then why would anyone come here???
maybe its other countries who suck and that's why people want to leave them and come to USA, you dont see americans leaving by the thousands to get out of this terrible place..
no but we sure do see that from the rest of the world...

yeah here's the latest headlines from a UK paper
"We're better than the British, says Chirac"

give me a break

america rocks..bottom line.

at this moments,

USA the #1 polluter on the planet
USA the first to use atomic bomb on civilans

gether your facts first!

"Terrorists aren't *usually* irrational." Think about what you said, won't quote the rest of it because this is the meat of the cake there.

You are siding with people that kill innocent women, children, old people, and twats just like you. They have no point other than their extreme interpretation of Islam that died a long time ago with the old world. Not just us now anyway, London got some of the action so I hope the rest of the world gets a taste too so you all know where we are coming from.

umm i am in no way sideing with terrorists

firstly i live in london
secondly i have allways not been impressed with
islam its a religion that the uk could do with out

infact im not impressed with any religion in general all religion does is cause war and hatred

if i had my way all muslims would be shiped back to they origional country even if they where bourn here

so dont just presume because im not that impressed with america that im a paki lover

as i have stated i dont hate america

there is a big difference between slagging off america and hateing them

QUOTE!!

"Terrorists aren't *usually* irrational." Think about what you said, won't quote the rest of it because this is the meat of the cake there.

You are siding with people that kill innocent women, children, old people, and twats just like you. They have no point other than their extreme interpretation of Islam that died a long time ago with the old world. Not just us now anyway, London got some of the action so I hope the rest of the world gets a taste too so you all know where we are coming from.

as ive said i dont hate america
in general i like americans as a people

even though it doesnt seem like it
by my comments

its called constructive critisism

the main problem with america lies around the
way your president is elected
and that they are alowd to take huge kick backs
by various companys to get them elected

and theyr total lack of care for the enviroment

oh and that the general every day american
knows didly squat about anything outside the usa
that the american press hasnt told them

QUOTE

i know how good my country is...
and if america is sooooo bad and our way of life is sooooo bad.. then why do imigrants from all over the world pour into THE USA every freaking day?? i mean if we are soooo bad and people hate us soooo much then why would anyone come here???
maybe its other countries who suck and that's why people want to leave them and come to USA, you dont see americans leaving by the thousands to get out of this terrible place..
no but we sure do see that from the rest of the world...

Ahh, so all terrorists are Islamic. Gotcha - I stand corrected.

umm

that would be because we hate the french and they hate us

and chirac is a ponce that likes annoying the british

all he did was moan when he went to the uk

he said it not because he likes america
he hates usa as much as uk

he said it to annoy the uk

When your entire GDP is only two dollars. Sending out $1 in aid seems like a lot doesn't it? Explain to me why America should be giving everything away? This reminds me of my 18 year old sister, who biotched and complained when a car was GIVEN to her because it wasn't what she wanted. GIVEN DAMMIT... FREE. If you want more... go work for it. Oh did I say a BAD word? WORK?!

You cant twist facts and figures to mean anything. Tell ya what. Go visit one of our dirtiest cities... say LA. THen go to Mexico city.. and tell me who has more pollution.

And people call AMERICA arrogant. Gee wasn't it France that refused to sign on to the EU's constitution. Oops I thought that it was AMERICA who were the only ones who refused to adhere to international treaty.

Holy crap a constructive comment!

I agree

Well I don't know any other religion that tells you it's A'OK to kill the non-believers so yeah, that is my final answer! :P

Why are you defending people that strap bombs to their chest and run at large crowds of people?

i really don't know how it feels to have people trying to kill me!!! as you say rwinger. I respect your country and the people living in it , but i hate your political actions. i live in a country in south america and we really feel the "actions" you take , because they repercute on us. By the way i would never go to your country , i'm very happy where i am . A lot of people goes to your country because they think they would have a better future, that's because your government put a lot of nasty rules to ours. So please don't make your country the best one , build it that way.

The religion says nothing about that - just like the Bible says nothing about the clergy having fun with little boys.

Some people always have a different interpretation of something, but that doesn't mean the original thing is bad.

Since I posted that I've had an interesting and insightful conversation with voyager4383, so will stop defending anything.