N/A - website error (wrong place for the reply).

Bakura you took the words out of my mouth already. All previous attempts of Sony failed Mini Disc, DAT and so on! It works for their own purposes and the same will be a fact with the PS3. YOu will see Blue Ray disks on the market with PS3 content and that's it. Those who think PS3 will be the wagon to make Blue Ray a succes are wrong, the past shows enough I think. Besides Sony is suffering a lot right now in the market, like Philips years ago the comnpany lost their contact with the public, the consumers not able to follow what they want, not what Sony wants!
Both Philips and Sony suffering from this. The only market where sony does quite ok right now is the mobile phone market and Philips made a hit with the Senseo coffee maker and that's it actually for them. But for trendy young people they sound as old grandpa's, they want new brands where they can identify with, IPOD a good example, Samsung...

DaveBG that's quite a statement you make. Twentieth, Disney and BMG turned around already ;-) do some research. You still think McDonalds and BurgerKing Hamburgers coming out of a different factory?

"Those who think PS3 will be the wagon to make Blue Ray a succes are wrong, the past shows enough I think."

The past shows DVD sales jumping almost synchronously with the PS2's release.

#1 DVD was replacing VHS, a vast improvement.
#2 DVD was not competing with another format.
#3 DVD is well accepted today and most people aren't going to see the need to update again.

The PS2/DVD situation really has no bearing on how much the PS3 will help Blu-Ray.

Good to see Blu-Ray is going to fail!

Twentieth Century Fox will never support HD DVD.
Good to see HD DVD is going to fail.

Walt Disney will never support HD DVD.
Good to see HD DVD is going to fail.

Sony BMG Music Entertainment will never support HD DVD.
Good to see HD DVD is going to fail.

...
...
...

DaveBG, I present you with Sony's honorary fanboi medal. Congratulations!

Now can you leave? We don't need zealots.

10q!

I think we can all agree that if Sony can deliver 6 million PS3 by March 2007, that all 6 million will be sold to all the Sony fanboys. Then would the manufacturing cost for the Blu-Ray laser go down and subsequently drive the cost of standalone Blu-Ray players down as well ? Perhaps down to HD-DVD player levels or lower. If price and video quality are the same, then it depends on content. Does BluRay have an advantage there ?

Not really. Much of the components for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the same - thus any price decreases gained from PS3 sales (6 million is very, very ambitious, given it's only 500,000 for Xmas) will also be passed on to HD-DVD.

well, at least here in Japan, MD is still quite popular, a LOT of people still prefer over CDs. although gradually digital players are taking over because of the cheap prices.

I thought it was 500,000 in November and 2 million by year end ... at any rate, good point about the component (esp, the laser) being the same. BluRay uses the old Mpeg2 codec to compress the video vs Mpeg4 + VC1 for HDDVD, and I haven't seen that many discussions saying BluRay is better than HDDVD, but rather the contrary. And if Sony does decide to use a better compression algorithm in the future, that means they would have to re-encode all the current BluRay movies, and so would screw over anyone who buys BluRay discs today. One plus for BluRay is that there seems to be more movie studios exclusive support for the format. Is that true ?

What is the last format that Sony succeeded in bringing to us (without partnership)?

Beta... failure (for consumers)
MiniDisc... failure
UMD... failure
Memory Stick... failure (for all products besides their own)

I give them props for trying, but when they attempt to bring a new medium to the world by themselves and force it down everyone's throat, they have not been so successful.

They did partner with Philips to bring the CD to the world, but that willingness to partner with another major player is what made that format so successful.

If Sony had been open to working with the HD DVD developers to agree on a format that both parties helped develop, we would not be in this situation.

I don't like Blu-Ray, but there is a huge misconception that it is a Sony proprietary format. Sony does not own Blu-Ray, nor did they create it themselves. They are just one company out of many that support Blu-Ray, they just get all the attention because of the PS3.

True. It is not SONY format. Blu-Ray is world format (90% leading world electronics companys).
And there is another format - the Toshiba format.

Would you just quit posting crap?

No :p

The problem is, he's right.

While on the face of it, it does sound as though you have a very good aruguement, there is one thing I'm not sure you've thought of - Sony own a film company and for that reason alone, I do think that while it may be argued Blu-Ray won't be a succcess (how you would determine that I don't know), there's no way it'll be a failure. I think Sony are quite confident and have every reason to be. Their past failures were failures but I don't think this will be another failure somehow. But of course time will tell.

Didn't they say that about video tapes too?

Well, one thing is unique in this thread.

Seldom have I read so much BS in one thread by so many who know so little about that which they are talking...

Just in case you are refering to me (which I strongly suspect), then you are obviously being a smart arse (again). I'm saying that I know a lot about very little on HD DVD and Blu-Ray. That's why I won't be buying it. I don't know the benefits apart from it being a super duper crystal clear "almost like being there" picture. It's expensive and I don't know why I need it - so I won't be buying it. Duh!

Do you know what - I know a lot about PCs but nothing about HD DVD and Blu-Ray. (What do you think the man in the street will know?).

I've only just got used to the fact that I can buy a recordable DVD player. I've got enough DVDs (and that's not much anyway) to know I don't want to invest in new players and new discs. I'm not paying a lot of money for any players when DVD quality is just fine by me. Unless DVDs are suddenly pulled from the shelf then it's only people with deep pockets and no sense who will upgrade.

You obviously aren't the target audience then. Do you even have an HD TV?

That's what HD-DVD and Bluray are all about - High Definition. If you have a high def TV, you would understand - the quality is superior and either format is much better than DVD.

Knowing about PC's really has nothing to do with it either - yes, both drives will be available in a PC format, but that's not the main focus for them.

Wow! HD stands for high definition? Really?? I mean, you're not just pulling my leg are you? C'mon now, own up.

High definition - high schmefinition - who cares? If you want to see somthing in such high quality then step outside your front door and experience the real world.

You can't tell me that any HD DVD or Blu-Ray player is going to be anywhere near a comparable price with DVD players - please tell me that's not your arguement.

Will you die if you don't have HD DVD or Blu-Ray? Is it really such good quality that to go and watch a poor old DVD would kill you.

I know HD DVD or Blu-Ray is better quality - it's just not life or death when there's nothing wrong with DVDs. I don't care about it and I'll bet you there's lots of people like me who don't care about it either.

Tsk.

"You can't tell me that any HD DVD or Blu-Ray player is going to be anywhere near a comparable price with DVD players - please tell me that's not your arguement."

Yes. Yes it will.
But give it time, VHS has taken far too long to die, so it could be a while.

You are forgetting that the price of DVD players will also become cheaper. An HD player will NEVER be as cheap as a DVD player, just as a DVD player will never be as cheap as an RCA CED player.

Someone needs an education on the price effects of mass-production.

I didn't say that HD players would never be as cheap as DVD players are now, I said that when they do get down to that price DVD players will be even cheaper.

In other news.

"Sony Pictures are unlikely to every support HD-DVD"

Totaly BS, both companies will support whatever format comes out, neither will stake their company on a failed format.

This is not news, Universal have been long time HD-DVD supporters, and have lots to gain from Blu-Ray failing. This is just PR Spin.

"both companies will support whatever format comes out, neither will stake their company on a failed format."

I never thought the day would come that you'd say something I agree with.

They will anyway. In late 2007 they wont have a choice. HD DVD will be dead soon and this is one last desperate attempt to save it. When SONY and Panasonic release their players its over.

Indeed. As time moves on, and HD-DVD sales continue to be slow, the more they realise that as soon as Blu-Ray get their products on the shelf, they game will be over,.

HD-DVD have had a considerable lead, but have failed to take advatage of it. 40,000 players worldwide will be eclipsed overnight by PS3 launch.

Yes. 100% true. If Universal prefers to die than to support Blu-Ray this will not be a big deal since we have Warner, Fox, Disney and SONY - 100% support ;)

Why don't you change your name to Sony Fanboy?

Yes, HD-DVD sales will be eclipsed (as you say) overnight by PS3 launch - each one is capable of playing BluRay movies. BUT, the key is knowing what percentage of those people will actually buy bluray movies too?

And how many sales of the 360 HD-DVD add on will occur?

There are still a lot of unknowns - so to declare anyone a winner now is a bit premature.

It *should* be eclipsed as think about it:
If you have a Blueray player in your house (as standard) with a PS3 you're 99% more likely to buy a Blueray disk over a HD-DVD one.
The PS3 is what brings Blueray into people's homes as it is a *cheap* item for having both next-gen technology AND games console ability as standard. (Though as this is a future product I won't be able to fully clarify this yet).

Granted, you have a point about the HD-DVD add on for the 360, but as it won't be used by any games I think there will be a very limited market for it (notice the *think*).

I may have to place a bet somewhere on this.

I would also like to point out that I don't care which wins, this is just what I *think* will happen. Pure speculation.

You know... technically, more people have PSPs than PS3s and HD-DVD players... so the question is ... is the PSP Media format more popular than Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?

No-one wants 300x300 resolution (or whatever it is), plus it's a proprietary format, which discounts it from the argument.

You do realize that HD-DVD has been outselling Blu-Ray for a long as Blu-Ray has existed. If HD-DVD sales are slow, than Blu-Ray sales are in the gutter floating among the sewage.

"If you have a Blueray player in your house (as standard) with a PS3 you're 99% more likely to buy a Blueray disk over a HD-DVD one"

I wish people would quit throwing out BS made up statistics. Please show me where you got that 99% from. Everyone assumes since the PS3 is going to play movies it will replace all the standalone models. Do you really think it is going to be as good as a standalone player that costs TWICE as much? More than likely it's going to be a crappy player, and who is going to want to wear out their overpriced consoles drive playing movies? Not to mention most PS3s are going to be in the kid's room. It's far too early to declare a winner here, but the PS3 is NOT going to decide it.

It's not about how many PS3 owners may watch Blu-Ray movies, it's the amount of hardware in homes, that studios care about.

We know the cost of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray titles are not that much more than DVD prices, so it's VERY likely that PS3 owners will be buying future releases on Blu-Ray rather than DVD.

As for the HD-DVD Add-on. I reckon less than 10% of XBox360 owners would buy the add-on, as it boosts the total price of the 2 to the same as a high end PS3, but without the additional features the PS3 has.

But the point is, Blu-Ray is still not upto speed, but HD-DVD is.

The hare and the tortoise???

Logic suggests 99%.
If you own a PS3, why in the heck would you have an HD-DVD player as well (unless you're rich and are a fence sitter [but the fence sitters probably wouldn't buy either])? Therefore you would buy the Blueray disk.

The 1% I've left is for those who own the PS3 AND an HD-DVD box, which I imagine will be a small margin of the owners of PS3s.

"and who is going to want to wear out their overpriced consoles drive playing movies"
Because actually it's cheaper than buying the two players seperatley?

Remember, there are a lot of suckers out there.

All I said was that HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray. You said HD-DVD sales were slow, so what does that make Blu-Ray sales? A lot worse.

No, you suggest 99%, your opinion. Logic nor facts had anything to do with that figure.

"If you own a PS3, why in the heck would you have an HD-DVD player as well"

Because the PS3 will most likely be a sh*tty movie player. It's a game console, that is what people are going to use it for.

Because is not yet launched. Just wait for the Sony and Panasonic players to apear!

WTF do you mean not launched yet? Blu-Ray has been launched for months now, they have more players available than HD-DVD and they are still being outsold. Quit being ignorant.

That's amazing you know that considering the price has not even been announced yet, nor do you know whether they'll be cutting the price on the 360 by then. What are these "additional features" by the way?

HD DVD is launched for monts (even a year). Blu-Ray is launched when its head company -> SONY release.
So when SONY release (simultaneously Panasonic) then we can say Blu-Ray is launched.

"I wish people would quit throwing out BS made up statistics.

More than likely it's going to be a crappy player... ".

Eh?

Sony is not the head company of Blu-Ray, and it is alredy launched. Blu-Ray movies are in the stores, so are players. This is the most ridiculous thing you've tried to say yet.

Besides of some techs with equippement to meassure the signals coming out of HD DVD or BLUE RAY I wonder if any here could see the difference at all. In the betamax/vhs time not one consumer could see the difference in quality at all. It was only Philips with their 2000 system (which never made it) who showed a sign. improvement on quality. VHS made it as betamax (read Sony) was far from cheap and there you go, the consumer did choose the cheaper standard, VHS. I guess HD DVD will go the same way, much cheaper to produce and for the consumer.... They won't see the difference in quality anyway... and so a new standard is born... HD DVD.

Are there any HD-DVD players better than the current Toshiba garbage? Toshiba's Linux boxes are beyond slow in every way. Who wants to wait one minute or more just for the unit to boot up and then wait another 45 seconds-1 minute for the disc to start playing? PC's with Windows XP, an Intel Pentium II processor and 256MB of memory boot up faster than Toshiba's Linux boxes do.

Blu-Ray movies are cheper than HD DVD, and players are ... $200 more. This way HD DVD is NOT cheaper, it is just crapier players.

Average Amazon price:

Blu-Ray $22.67
HD-DVD $22.38

Oooh, huge difference there. Not to mention HD DVD comes out cheaper in this case not that it matters because the prices are basically the same. So why pay more for a player again?

Oh, and $200 more? Where did you get that crap?

Philips BDP9000 $999.00
Toshiba HD-A1 $399.00

Oh let me guess, you are comparing a standalone player to a game console. Please...

Keep working on that fanboy math.

1. Samsung player - $689.99
2. Toshiba Player HD-XA2 - $999

1. http://www.amazon.com/ex...=nosim/tonyswebsit02-20

2. "be available during the Thanksgiving/Christmas Holiday's at a retail of $ 999.99"

Go to scholl Skyfrog , you may learn how to count to 10 ;)

If you're going to use the most expensive HD-DVD player, why don't you choose the most expensive Blu-Ray too.

Why don't you pick the cheapest of both...since those will be the most sold players.

Geez...such a genius.

You're comparing a new top of the line model that isn't even out yet to the cheapest Blu-Ray player you could find. I knew you were a raving fanboy but I didn't know you were a total idiot.

I love those reviews for the Samsung too, it sounds like it's a total piece of crap.

Im havin fun with you guys. HD DVD is falling down every day, i and wont to see what its fanboys have in mind ;)

Yeah, thats why you compare the crapiest player with the newly added to the line - Philips ;)

Go check the sales ranking for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray at Amazon or Best Buy and come back and tell us which one is falling down every day.

Because we are comparing 1080p players. Toshiba player cant play 1080p, yet Samsung can. So if we compare 1080p player, Samsung is cheaper!

Because Samsung player is not that good and there was no onther alternative yet. pelpe wait for SONY, LG and Panasonic players to apear. And what about Toshiba? They crash and freze and have poor sound. The player is a piece of crap.

So why are you comparing it's price to the top of the line HD-DVD player to try and claim that Blu-Ray is cheaper? As for the Toshiba that was only the first models and they have been fixed with a firmware update. You really are getting desperate.

Going from 1080i to 1080p is not worth hundreds of extra dollars, especially when most consumers don't even have a television capable of showing it yet or even know what in the world those terms mean. You should really go into politics, you could spin things and twist them to suit your arguments with the best of them.

A slightly more obnoxious this article has already been discreted at digg.com, so I'm shocked and appalled to see it here,slightly changed. Every major studio except Universal, if not exclusively blue-ray, is producing dvd's in both formats. blue-ray has more features, is higher quality, more backing studios, and has more user interactivity capabilities it is also NOT BACKED BY MICROSOFT. HD-DVD, has HIGHER COPYRIGHT PROTECTION, AND IS BACKED BY MICROSOFT, which is bound to be worse than sony , however you look at it.

HD-DVD "has HIGHER COPYRIGHT PROTECTION"? Care to elaborate?

And the fact that it is backed by MS is a good thing. I wonder why you see it as a bad thing.

Apple supports it(HD DVD) too

Blu-Ray is the one that has more DRM. Better luck next rant.

Apple supports Blu-Ray, not HD DVD ;)

Simply wrong. Blu-Ray is the DRM'ed to death solution - hence the recording industry support. As a consumer, it's bad news.

Perhaps do a little research. A site has already compared the video quality of a movie in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Blu-ray lost. MS's VC-1 codec is simply better than what the Blu-ray discs were using (MPEG-2, no wonder they need the space).

Errm, Perhaps do a little research.

You can get Blu-Ray movies in VC1 codec. H264 is also on it's way, with movies using it released later this month.

The early Blu-Ray releases were MPEG2, there is nothing inheriently wrong with MPEG2, it just less compression, and required more disk space. MPEG2 on a 50GB disk will look stunning, potentially even better than VC1 on a 25GB disk, but only time will tell.

I for one am pulling for HD-DVD. Sony doesn't exactly have the cleanest record and most people no what Im talking about *wink*.*cough* DRM...http://www.betanews.com/search?search=sony+drm

The only problem with your comment, is that Sony are not the only developer of Blu-Ray, so it's a pointless comment.

with a pointless reply.

While I think most objective readers will agree that both formats are up in the air at the moment, HD-DVD does seem to be gaining more steam, while Sony has had seemingly nothing but bad news lately. However, all it takes is one slip-up from either format--one design flaw, one "secret copy protection" scheme, etc. Who really knows for sure?

I was at a Fry's electronics with a friend the other day and saw a rack of Blu-Ray and a rack of HD-DVD next to eachother. I said "Look! VHS and Betamax!"

Did you feel clever?

Did anyone point out HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray is nothing like VHS/Beta.

It was rather clever since the average consumer doesn't know the intimate details of the situation. Bet you feel mighty good picking on poor consumers out there don't you? Bring anything to me son, you'll see you don't know a damn thing.

but wait .... how come this article makes no refference to the second review in which VC-1 compression was used instead of MPEG-2 (which was used on the first review) and thus placing both formats head to head image-quality wise

"...early reviews from first-adopters in the next-generation videodisc battle as indication that HD DVD has already been crowned champion in the battle against Blu-ray."

Hardy har har, its seams the curtain is fast closing on this who will reign supreme format. I for one hope Sony fail, there arrogance in forcing a format so heavily deserves a spectacular failure.

Yes, how dare a company aggressively market a new product. Why, you'd almost think they want to make money off it!

Yes, because forcing you to have a virus on your computer so that you can't copy the music that you paid for is such a great thing. Then there is the fact that the little money grubing thieves want to force satalite radio owners to pony up more money for haveing a radio that could record the music that is playing. There is a lot of talk over technology that is outdated anyways just google "c3d cds" and be amazed. PS blueray cost an assload of money for a disk that won't be filled by a movie.