i would like to know if hd-dvd doe end what are they going to do for the people who just bought player in december. could there be a firmware update to make it blue ray. if they dont something they will lose a lot of toshiba buyers.

Something tells me here that the rumore of the demise and death of HD DVD have been greatly over exagerated. I have a feeling Toshiba still has a few tricks up their sleeve and a few interesting cards to play. They didn't get to be the multi-billion dollar global company they are today by just laying down to die every time they hit a bump in the road.

Warner moving over to Blu-ray only may actually have been the best possible thing to happen to the HD DVD format. Now they really have an incentive to gamble, roll the dice and go out on a limb. Maybe this recent bad news is just exactly what they needed to inspire them and motivate them? It wouldn't be the first time we have seen "bad news" ignite a fire inside of a company and cause them to soon surprise everyone with some very creative, innovative, unconventional and aggressive moves shortly thereafter.

There is an old saying that watching this "war" now puts me in mind of that the Blu-ray camp may just want to keep in mind now: be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.

Exactly Mike, Toshiba could in fact come out with a better made dual format player, woo other studios to go neutral, work with Sony to offer special BD player deals for current hd-dvd owners, or maybe offer to sell hd-vd movies thru a distributor outside the US (work around Warner's contract with BD). Well as long as hd-dvd still sells movies, I'll still be buying. I only paid $199 for my A2 and it's a dam good upscaler. So much so that even upscaled DVD's on my 47inch Westy 1080P look pretty good sitting 10ft back.

I'm just gonna sit tight with what I have, and keep an eye out on the happenings. It maybe some time before bd 2.0 players come down to 199 or less.

Lately the prices of super large LCD's (over 50 inches ) have been coming down. It may push demand for HVD sooner than later the way technology has been accelerating in the TV sector.

oh sh*t..man this sucks i've accumulated over 100 HD-DVD's over the past year..what am i going to do now toshiba????

wait for a drive that's compatible with both bluray & hd-dvd.

What's wrong? Did they suddenly stop working after the announcement?

I'm not entirely sure what Toshiba and gang will do next, perhaps (and this is theorizing) how about if Toshiba:

a.) open licenses hd-dvd hardware and software. Therefore instead of making standard upscaling dvd players or standard BD players, anyone can make players with hd-dvd technology as a new added "feature". Much like how VHS adopted "HQ" high quality technology, which made VHS movies look better. Price it at 149-249 price range. Now with more units out in the wild, it would make it very compelling and noone gets screwed. Sony could indeed take this "free hd-dvd license" and incorporate hd-dvd into a future BD player.

Whatever happens, it's more important now more than ever to get everyone (Toshbia/Sony, all studios) fall on the same page sooner than later. Create an affordable dual format player and take the best features from each side into one unit, and make it affordable. Time is of the essence, we don't have 10yrs to win over DVD owners. There is a risk that by the time this is all sorted out and movies finally coming in droves, that HVD might be there waiting for yet another format war. Already there are super large lcd's at CES (4096 by 2160), and will BD be enough for that new spec?

p.s., the reason hd-dvd might be good to add as a feature is this

all studios can release 2 versions of HD media:

- version A (basic)on 15gig hd-dvd which is just the main movie, DTS and light features. cheap easy to make for the masses.

- version B is the (ultra deluxe) on 50gig/100gig BD super high bit rate, super uncompressed audio, mega features for the demanding video connoisseur.

I can see a win win here for everyone.

Anyone notice, No mention of HD DVD TL51 at CES. If there ever was a time and place, CES was it. Is it safe to assume at this point it was vaporware and Toshiba was bluffing the whole time?

PS. Anyone seen HokusPokus??? Somone want to drive by and make sure he is OK???

Anyone notice that Joey Steve Whomeverheisguy can't respond to comments about being forced to buy a new player, yet he keeps posting this bulls***?

Yep though whats missing from his post this time is the whole PS3 is the best player plug.
Just a broken record on this page, no freaken idea why he even boffers

There were supposed to be mentions of quite a few things HD DVD-related at CES. This was supposed to be as big event for them as it was for Blu-ray.

That is, until Warner backstabbed them.

Imagine you were a member of the BDA organizing a press conference. With no advance warning, on the eve of one of the largest public electronics gatherings, when all eyes are upon you for the latest big announcements... Fox, or Disney, or any one of the other big studios decided to duck and run.

You'd probably need time to rethink your strategy, too.

Think next time, please?

I've wondered where Hocuspokus is as well. He's probably sick of your gloating and continued posting of BS and speculation, as I'm sure most everyone else here is.

Ah ****.
This war just isn't going to end, is it.

Are you kidding. There is too much money at stake for Toshiba to throw in the towel now.

Toshiba have thrown in the towel.

1. Cancelled press conference
2. Press releases saying "we have been declared dead before".
3. Little mention of HD DVD in the Toshiba briefing
4. Microsoft dropping HD DVD like a s***ty stick.

HD DVD is not that big within Toshiba, they have other lines, and dropping it would make a small short-term hit in profitability (as their share price drops have already shown), but it's not the end of the company. The only people deluded to think that very soon, the whole format will die, are those consumers that heavilly invested in it.

The fact is, critical mass for Blu-ray has already begun, the domino effect of other studios is happening, it's happening with retailers cancelling media orders, it's happening with duplication plants closing lines, it's happening with consumers selling or exchaning kit and media.
A quick look around the usual user forums shows a few die-hards, but the majority of HD DVD owners are serious looking at selling kit, or exchanging their $99 walmart players under the money back gaurentees, and swapping out unopened media.

If by critical mass, you mean all the blubloods rushing to walmart to get the new player with PIP support, then sure.

Otherwise you have absolutely no facts to back any of your other statements.

Thanks for the opinion on what the market is doing though.

Does this include the post where Microsoft said that they aren't dropping HD DVD, and pointed out that their HD DVD addon has outsold all standalone BD players combined? :)

(4).. right where the hell are you reading that?
Do yourself a favor and keep your opinion to yourself. Your going into negative numbers..

Betanews, please correct your article, it's clearly wrong.

Paramount have only stated they will continue support for HD DVD. Never was the word exclusivity mentioned, the absence of that word, implies that they intend to move back towards supporting both formats, inline with their contractual obligations.

Here is the responsible reporting version, rather than the fanboy version you read here, with added zest.

http://www.bloomberg.com...h2LV_bU&refer=japan

``Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.

Two very worrying things about this statement, for HD DVD owners.

1/ the word CURRENTLY
2/ the fact it does not deny going format neutral.

Funny, articles here are UPDATED all the time...

But this is the first time that I recall it warranting an article name change. Wonder why... Oh yea because now it doesn't look as bad.

How do you know? Maybe Betanews has a different source. You know there is more then 1 person at Paramount that can talk.

Because betanews are not a credible news site, companies like Paramount deal with Bloomberg, Reuters, BBC and the like, and wouldint piss on jumped up blogs like this..

Incase you missed it:

"promised big changes in 2008 -- which will require early adopters to purchase new Blu-ray players."

I thought you always touted that you wouldn't need to buy another one.

Sucks to be you. *snicker*

Then delete your account.

mkaythx

Then why do you come here? Oh yeah, it's because you're a trolling idiot. If any normal person believed a site was not credible they wouldn't go to that site. You're very welcome to prove me wrong though, by getting TFO and never coming back.

Because it's entertainment reading the biased crap they write.

I've been here for almost 8 years now, and I have to disagree. The editors here I'm sure have personal bias, everyone does, but it's not apparent in their articles.

By the way, you get your new BluRay player with PIP support? What'choo gonna do with the old "outdated" one, goodwill?

Well, most of the time it's not apparent. I've been reading betanews for about 6 years now and on occasion, I've seen some pretty obviously biased articles. Thankfully, that tends to be few and far between. A lot less than the comments by the users :p

Every studio is going to say currently.. Show me a studio that says they will NEVER change their plans.

And why do they need to deny going neutral? They are exclusive - it makes more sense that if they were going neutral that they would say it, not the other way around.

You have got to be kidding me, can you sink any lower? The only reason you don’t like it is because it’s true. Why don’t you pick on the positive blu-ray stories? There are the ‘same’ faults as you would put it on them as well. No of course you won’t because you’re nothing but a low life troll that for some strange reason wants to torture us with his/it’s rubbish. I think people here are about sick of you and your bulls***.

Betanews please PLEASE introduce some sort of user rating like they have on blu-ray.com so the idiots that feel the need to preach their opinion as the bible can get a rating appropriate?

“2/ the fact it does not deny going format neutral”
That’s a joke right? Need I say anymore…..

The problem is you only contribute to the 'problem' by posting your biased crap

Yes because we have NEVER seen 'updated' news articles on any major news site before have we?

Where are these people coming from...

"A lot less than the comments by the users"

True... not to mention comments from the editors themselves occasionally. :)

Joey, our story is factually correct. We aren't going to edit an article just because you have picked a side here.

Joey, no offense, but with about a couple hundred thousand other unique readers here each month, if you don't like us that much than why don't you consider reading a news site more catered to your interests?

People get arrested all the time for disturbing the peace or inciting riots.

...just a thought. :)

*laughing*

That has got to be the best reply I have seen since the HD-DVD/BR war began... Ed, please tell me that isn't copyrighted material... ;-)

Also, Joey, as per your modus operandi... get your facts together BEFORE you post...

Seriously! All of the sudden it's attack BN day?

I think the majority of posters here ask themselves the same question when he posts

*applauds*

Ed, the Playstation website doesn't really update as much as this one does.

I see Paramount and Dreamworks continuing to support (Not push) HD-DVD, but I would imagine that you will see them getting their hands into BLU-Ray as well and eventually after "Fore filling their Obligation" pushing into the BLU-Ray Market.

I still think HD-DVD can have a purpose (Storage Media, Games for XBOX 360, Etc. Verbatim just announced the release of HD-DVD-R AND RW Discs, 15GB in 30 Minutes) things of that nature.

I own a PS3, but own no BLU-Ray movies. I really wanted to see what was going to happen before I started spending $$$ on something that was either going to be the next wave or a Collectors Item.

I would think by XMAS 2008 their current library of BLU-Ray Titles which is small in both the Movie and Game Genre's will be expansive with what has happened.

I'm not sure if there's a point to HD-DVD-R/RW if Blu-Ray writeables end up costing the same... I know the whole DVD-RW, +RW, -R, +R is practically interchangeable since all new computer writer drives write and read them. But I swear, of the 8 players and drives (various manufacturing dates) I've tested these four types of discs on them, all read the - variety, but only 4 read +R and 2 read +RW. It's crazy. So I just end up only buying the -r -rw types.

What does this have to do with anything on the HD writeable side? I don't know. I just think if HD-DVD gives up the content business, they might as well give up writeables too.

When one door closes, you have to open another. Just because someone has Cancer you don't throw them away, you find a / another application (Treatment) for their issue.

BLU-Ray is still an expensive media market overall (Players, Recordable Drives, Media). And now that the decision has more or less been made, BLU-Ray will be in Demand and when there is a Demand, the prices will stay High.

The $399 PS3 is still the Value Item in the BLU-Ray player market when you think of it, and this will push that as well.

The PS3's 1.2 Million in Sales over the 2007 Holiday Season made this decision for the Movie Studios. WII can't play BLU-Ray / HD-DVD or Regular DVD. XBOX needs an accessory to play HD-DVD's. PS3 is ready to go.

Overall, Media failures on one front do find homes on others. When the DVD came out we all wrote off CD's when in fact it was not DVD at all that is making CD's go away, Broadband is making CD's go away.

The only purpose that HD-DVD really has is that its cheaper to produce. Which is why I'm still surprised that Warner went with blu-ray (we'll not really, 2 excessive price drops on the PS3 did the trick, on top of other things...).

My only concern now will be BD+, if they push that crap any further, then I'd rather stick to standard DVDs.

I'm still waiting for GT5 before I buy a PS3.

Eh, once the last studios move over it'll be a good upscaler.

Dont know what country you are in but your PS3 will soon be the best tool to stream HD media (if your country has plans) to your TV from various sources. That to me would be appealing.

I agree eventually its likely they will push into the blu-ray market. But for now we can just see what happens :)

I'm happy to see a sensible poster who has adopted part of this new technology :)

Let's not forget the 360 and the upcoming IPTV features... (http://www.betanews.com/...ut_not_in_US/1199735454)

Granted, it's not going to be available in the US anytime soon, but at least someone is finally fulfilling the promise of these boxes (both the PS3 and 360) being more than just high-end gaming rigs...

You know if the "people familiar with the situation" are wrong about this clause if I were Toshiba I'd take a break from CES and walk down the street to the federal courthouse and file a lawsuit against the Financial Times. I'm getting sick and tired of these media organizations hiding behind half truths and distortions. On the other hand if it is true I feel HDDVD is done and the studios should pay to convert my library over to Blu-Ray. I bought movies based on Warner's claim that they were going to stay neutral.

(sees the updated article) Hmm...time to slap the lawsuit :D

Ya, I want Commodore to buy me all new games for my PS3 because who knew the C64 would ever die... It is unfortunate that some people are going to be stuck with one format or the other... but, you own an HD-DVD player I assume, so you can still watch your HD-DVD movies... why would anyone have to replace your library for you? People migrated from vinyl to tape to cd to online... people migrated from reel-to-reel to tape to dvd to hd/bd... As years go by, it gets harder to find the equipment to play the old formats - but you still can.

There is a big difference between saying one thing in November and doing the complete opposite the first week of January. I feel that Warner intentionally misled me by saying they were committed to staying format neutral. That's why I feel they should replace my library.

I think we should start a class action lawsuit against them for misleading us and making me waste all that money this Christmas. I also purchased it because of Warner stating they would support hd dvd!

So why should studios replace your collection, just because you were idiotic enough to back the obvious lame horse..

Gee, where have I seen that way of doing things before, (stating one thing then changing their mind)?

Hmmmmm.........oh yeah.......Government.............

I wish I could get my money back on all the cr@p our government has made me waste money on.

Just incase you still didn't read it.

"promised big changes in 2008 -- which will require early adopters to purchase new Blu-ray players."

I thought you always touted that you wouldn't need to buy another one.

Sucks to be you. *snicker*

Meh...

If this is true, at least things will settle down soon. Can't say I'd be sad to see either format go away, but I will miss the amusing fanaticism of the Blu-Ray crowd and the FUD-brigade.

AFAIAC, the formats are the same insofar as neither of them will be used by me. :) As Fiber rolls out and the cable infrastructure upgrades hit, physical media, and the asinine arguments over the format of physical media, is becoming more and more obsolete.

For what it's worth...

http://www.highdefdigest...g_HD_DVD_[UPDATED]/1345

According to the article posted yesterday, Paramount and Dreamworks intend to continue supporting HD DVD.

I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens. It wouldn't be the first time that a studio lied about its intentions...

I doubt Paramount will continue supporting HD-DVD much longer if they start producing blu-ray again. Seems to me like they'd just do a complete 180 and drop HD-DVD altogether, no use in prolonging a format war.

P.S. I'm still not buying a PS3 any time soon

"promised big changes in 2008 -- which will require early adopters to purchase new Blu-ray players."

what? no? Is this even possible?

Muhahahaha Least I can still use my old HD-DVD player and then get a blu player once it catches up while all the blubloods get bent over on their existing players! :-D

I can't wait to see how the smurfs try to spin that...

They won't, they will pretend to vanish from the site until the story blows over then they will come back in full swing.

That, or they will just outright ignore it while responding to other comments.

Unfortunately that's a 'dream' - getting caught up that is. That's one of the many reasons I'd have liked to see HD be successful. As I've said in the past, this is what Blu-Ray will use to continuously squeeze money from people every few years. A 'profile' upgrade that offers 'more features' but 'requires a new blu ray player'. It's coming true already and Blu-Ray has just started.

Sad sad day for us all...

@ Neoprimal-"Unfortunately that's a 'dream' - getting caught up that is. That's one of the many reasons I'd have liked to see HD be successful. As I've said in the past, this is what Blu-Ray will use to continuously squeeze money from people every few years. A 'profile' upgrade that offers 'more features' but 'requires a new blu ray player'. It's coming true already and Blu-Ray has just started.

Sad sad day for us all..."

It all has to do with what blu-ray player you got, its not a scheme to make more money by the BDA or sony or any other blu-ray player maker(panasonic sharp etc...) Take a look at the PS3 you dont see me having to buy another ps3 for profile 2 or BD-live its not to make more money but hardware related, the ps3 sports a ethernet has a great processor and enough ram to make it run BD-live, yet its one of the chepeast blu-ray and earliest i got my ps3 at launch 2006 60 GB and i have only to do a 10 minute update for it to work and as for other blu-ray players, yes some people will have to buy another one for BD-live but some i believe can be fixed by a simple filmware update by internet since some have ethernet or wireless capability

yep. only troll on bad news for the other guy. avoid anything that doesnt support their side of the story... kinda like bible thumpers only with fouler language

I was speaking in terms of being future proof. The DVD standard as you can see has been pretty much the same from day 1. Sure there are certain hardware differences that todays player offer over ones in the past. However with Blu-Ray, a so near' obsolescense of these things doesn't really paint a pretty picture for the future of BR. I mean, the first gen are essentially obsolete already, but as we all know that's because of a missing ethernet port. In terms of begging a point, I'm trying to say that it doesn't make any sense that they didnd't have the foresight to slap ethernet ports and internet connectivity on the first players if they knew then that upgrades would be offered in that way and that there would be online 'live' services offered. It just doesn't make any point to me, UNLESS they were planning on making some money from early adopters who now are forced to buy new players with this functionality.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Sorry, not very eloquent in my choice of words today. Basically, I'm worried that in the short term future, for eg. Blu-Ray profile 4.0 will come along and for some ridiculous reason, render BR 2.0 and up players obsolete.

IF that's not a possibility, then GREAT! I understand that the PS3 has been a top buy for blu-ray at this point for if not the fact that it plays games, then because it's upgradeable and can go online since it has the ethernet port.

But I'm just worried that soon, that will not be enough.

Ok I'll bite...

I think a good response to this was made above by PUNTOR...
"...It all has to do with what blu-ray player you got, its not a scheme to make more money by the BDA or sony or any other blu-ray player maker(panasonic sharp etc...) Take a look at the PS3 you dont see me having to buy another ps3 for profile 2 or BD-live its not to make more money but hardware related, the ps3 sports a ethernet has a great processor and enough ram to make it run BD-live, yet its one of the chepeast blu-ray and earliest i got my ps3 at launch 2006 60 GB and i have only to do a 10 minute update for it to work and as for other blu-ray players, yes some people will have to buy another one for BD-live but some i believe can be fixed by a simple filmware update by internet since some have ethernet or wireless capability"

Having quoted that... Yes, some people will have to buy new players if they want PIP or internet connectivity. Though the PIP content can be viewed using the regular menus, the PIP feature will not be there.

But you kinda know that right? In today's day and age, consumers of electronics (especially toys) know that things get outdated quickly. New features come and go. You take that gamble. I have an ipod with no color and no video... It happens. I think that's part of the reason many people bought the PS3 or bought HDDVD for that matter... But because of the current trend in gadgets, you do run that risk.

Yes it does suck, but luckily, since the vast majority of Blu-Ray owners are PS3 owners, this doesn't hurt too many people.

- PapaSmurf

Apparently, they didn't need to...

I can respect that attitude...well put.

"PapaSmurf"

Blasphemy! That name is reserved for Bill Hunt. :)

what i know is that there are 3 blu-ray formats and 1 hd-dvd format, and while shopping for movies i dont want to have to care which format im buying. its bad enough people have to choose between dvd, blu-ray, and hd-dvd, now you have multiple format discs out as well. do i know for sure i'm getting online interactivity with my bd purchase? or pip? no. no idea. im not entirely sure that i have it with the hd dvd, but at least i know it was there when the studio made the initial disc release. they didnt have to wait for players to catch up to unfinish standards when they designed their releases

No I think you're mistaken. There is only 1 disc format.

ANY BD movie will play in ANY player. The extra content themselves may require your player have profile 1.1 or 2.0 or whatever that specific feature is. But the movie itself will play.

Buy the PS3 or a player with an internet connection and you're set. No confusion.

NULLedge - which one of those "1" HD DVD formats will you play the HD DVD disc with dts-HD Master Audio on?
The players that decode it? The players that bitstream it? Or the players that do neither?
See how that works both ways?

The main movie from all Blu-ray discs plays on ALL players and so do the majority of the special features. For PIP if you want to see what was being shown and you have a 1.0 player, you can watch the PIP separately as a featurette. So far the only compelling PIP feature in the 20 months HD DVD has been out is "300" anyway.
As for web enabled content, I have several DVD's with it and I've never bothered to look and see what they are.
All the other deleted scenes, special features, audio commentaries, gag reels, making of's, etc., etc., etc., will all play on any player.

So much drama!

Lol, this is great and I'm loving it!...hmm, I see a hidden message in this quote

"which will require early adopters to purchase new Blu-ray players"

Is that PS3 that I smell in the horizon boosting sales up? hee hee hee, GO SONY!! nah nah children behave, I've told you that time will decide on that, seems like so far all my predictions have come true. Ni modos! asi es la vida!! like it or not!

Really only money decided this. But everything was definitely was dependent on Warner. If they had gone HD-DVD then everyone would be chearing HD-DVD has won. Alas a handsome amount of money swayed them, oh and lets not forget 2 excessive price drops on the PS3 in 1 year!

"...oh and lets not forget 2 excessive price drops on the PS3 in 1 year!"

Excessive? Wasn't the complaint that it wasn't "excessive" enough. Since when is a price drop a bad thing?

You are right it is still expensive for the average consumer, but don't you think -$200 in 1 year is excessive even so? Price drops are a good thing, but like I've said before dropping the price twice in one year on a new CONSOLE is obviously a desperation move. It worked for sony though, they have successfully made the PS3 a blu-ray player and not a gaming console.

Still not buying a PS3 until GT5 is released

I can agree with that. Even though I paid $600 for mine (no regrets, honest), It wouldn't have sold at that price. It was a gamble they took, and it looks like it paid off.

BTW - Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is due out in February. Although I think it's a slim version of it. The full game due later this year.

I'm going to skip prologue, I've never liked demos. Nothing but a tease.

Oh well...

All that's left if for Universal to switch over, and I'll finally be able to (hopefully) have Firefly and Serenity on one HD format... that is, if Fox ever decides to release Firefly. *sigh*

You may have found the silver lining in this mess.

HMMMMMMMMM THIS ONE TOO??? SO FAST??? ITS SOOO SUSPICIOUS!!!!!!!!!!

Everything seems to be going as someone once told me. Microsoft is quietly leaving support for this behind as it will put all its efforts in STREAMING MEDIA. THAAAT is the next (VERY) big era of media, not higher capacity or quality formats.

Geeks/enthusiasts aside, DVD already does the jobs for the rest of the society.

However streaming media, those are the new virgin fields that will feed a new era of big business.

I agree. But it will take some time before streaming 40+ gb of data quickly is commonplace. Likewise, it will also be some time before super large capacity storage solutions and the digital era is existent where you can carry around your movies and music (in data form) or access it from your friends homes etc. etc. easily.
In the interim, it'd be nice to buy a single, current DVD standard that I can watch at my home, my friends' home and carry around and watch on my laptop.