Wal-Mart? Hey there is always your local TIGER DIRECT warehouse store down there in Miami Florida! Computers and computer related stuff is all they do. Buy a case and power supply. Then add whatever hardware and software you need. I'd rather do this instead of messing witb the WALMART gang. TIGER DIRECT also sells complete ready to use systems.

Whatever turns you on...

"...saving on shipping costs and other related expenses associated with ordering a system online..."
Well, than you suppose to pay taxes at store that will be much higher than shipping costs. So, at that point of view - no savings!

That's a good point.

Those of you considering a Wal-mart built pc, please do yourselves a favor and learn how to build one yourself. Learn about the hardware, assembly techniques, ANTISTATIC PRECAUTIONS!! (who here really thinks a poorly paid Wal-mart computer tech is going to take static precautions when building pcs?) and how to get the most bang for your buck. Build it yourself and take pride in your accomplishment as well as the invaluable learning experience. Get some help from a computer guru friend or relative, if possible. it will be well worth it.

That, or pay a professional tech in a reputable computer shop to build it for you.

Does anyone think that Wal-mart is going to hire competent techs to build computers? of course not. No need to say any more. Bottom line: steer clear of Wal-mart built computers.

Right! Go NewEgg, for example, to order parts and build yourself. It's pretty easy.

I live in Tampa, if I drive 25 minutes of USF on Bruce-B-Downs Blvd I get to a Super Walmart.

An area that I feel safe enough to go to at 3am in the morning.

Infact I live by several Walmarts, they are safe during the day, not at night. But what exactly is safe at night in Tampa anyways.

Yeah that's another point, I just moved from Tampa, it sucked. (we won't get into that).

I know the Walmart you are talking about and I drive out of the way to go there..

I spent a year or two working for a systems integrator on Bruce-B-Downs back in the mid 90s.

Tampa sucks, I probably wouldn't move back there. Then again so does Walmart.

heh

No, Orlando sucks along with Walmart.

Orlando isn't too bad. It is inside city limits, as are Ocoee, apopka (especially), Crime Hills, Winter Garden, etc. Once you get out of Orange county (pick a direction) it's pretty nice though.

I am using Opera! Wow the 9.0 beta is nice..

Yes, I know its off topic, sue me.

hey!
i own the patent on off-topic comments
i'll see you in court!

Opera 9 does not work on these sites at all for me, they do not even load.
www.mbnanetaccess.com
mailcenter.comcast.net

Oops, my bad.. can we settle this without bringing a judge into this?

lol

great walmart is going to kill more private business's thank you sam walton you bas****

Plleeeeaaase! The customers that Walmart caters to will not even touch those markets. Machines like HP, Gateway, etc will only offer a few choices.
When all these machines start coming back for service is what will determine if they continue with it or not. There is also the added expense of now hiring service techs in their stores.

I just find it hard to see this reaching the level which you think. The machines that are bought at Walmart are serviced in these so-called private businesses(currently do).

I think this is a marketing illusion to the customers of Walmart. These customers are not ones you find dishing out for custom made computers. (not bashing the walmart customer either)

well my business is currently makeing custom gaming computers or cheap but decent medium range machines for people in my area, im worried that i will lose the 75% of my business that currently buys the medium range computers that i customize for them (ie. add modems, different monitor options, and install programs they purchase on the computers for them.) the rest is all made up of spoilled kids with rich parents who buy them gaming machines but cant build one. im just worried about losing customers

Walmart Sells computers!?

Yeah they sold them before, the diff is NOW they will be build to order, not E-machines..

Since 2004, yes... "Walmart PC Holiday Bundle" ring a bell? Hmmm--maybe not...?

Yes, they sell POS computers.

Point Of Sale? Never seen those there...

No thanks. I'll build my own.

I'll continue to build my own. I will also continue to buy elsewhere other than Wal-Mart. I don't want to support a company that is so blantantly against the average person living a normal life. While they are usually the cheapest stuff around, on has to ask themselves ... is this for the good of the American economy?

If you say yes to that last question, you probably need to do some research on how the company operates. As for me, I'll stick with my home built machines and not buying from Wal-Mart thank you.

That same stuff your buying elsewhere is still made over seas?? So why is it Wal-Mart is the Bad guy. You should be pointing the finger at Bush for opening the flood gates and sending all our jobs overseas

bush didn't open the flood gates the damn unions forced big business to seek cheaper help elsewhere.

yes, I agree.

And Wal-Mart doesn't have a Union??? So why are they the Bad Guy again??

you replied to the wrong post, I didn't say they were the bad guy.. I said Bush wasn't the bad guy..

Unions however ARE the bad guy.

Planet Wal*Mart. People hate Wal*Mart, but billions keep shopping there, including my dumb a** self. The price on their perishable goods like soap, toilet paper, etc., is a dollar less on each product than the other supermarket\department stores in my area. I ain't no rich b**ch,(I am beginning to think I wasted my money on an undergrad degree) so I go where dem prices be low. I tried supporting the local unionized retailer that is based out of the state I live in. They charge more, because I assume they are forced to pay their employees more, due to the union. Unions are great for the employee, and I finally realized they suck for the consumer. If Wal*Mart offers up a high performance, cheap PC, I will be the first stupid, white trash, poor northern midwest redneck standing in line y'all!!!!!

They cost more because they have pride in providing benefits to their employee, you do realize that Wal-Mart doesn't offer most of their employees any insurance right? Guess who's paying for their insurance ... it is you and me through our tax dollars. This is one way that WalMart can offer lower prices and still make massive profits. Yes, they rarely work anyone under management at full time thus they do not have to provide health benefits. They also pay everyone under management, minimum wage ... or pretty close to everyone under management.
Know why there isn't a Union at Walmart? Walmart actually employs people to bust up any idea that someone can get one going ... do some reasearch and you will see.
Sure, they offer cheap prices and the general public of America doesn't give a ratbutt that Walmart is undermining their very beliefs because they're cheap.

I'll stick to supporting companies that better support our economy, sure I may not be as rich, but I'll definitely feel better that I didn't help make the rich richer and poor ... poorer.

I am actually fully aware of Wal-Mart's anti-union stance, and their low-overhead policies. Yes, it's why they offer those low-low prices.

It's also genious.

This isn't the shocking secret the media thought it was 3-5 years ago. If people were so against this, they'd shop elsewhere. They'd work elsewhere. And if Wal-Mart is the only place for `em to work in their town, then they would move, if it were so terrible. Yet they don't. Employees and consumers alike CHOOSE to maintain this "evil empire."

So at this point, with the Wal-Mart strategem now being a given, (and one that the government has acquiesced to for the very same reasons as stated above), who's to blame? Blame the workers themselves for not going out and getting better jobs. Blame me, `cause I guarantee that's where my next loaf of cheap-a** bread is comin' from!

Or Wal-Mart's oppressed could unionize, and enjoy the same bloated wages & benefits, and the resulting inability to be competitive & ultimate unemployment as the U.S. steel & auto industries have enjoyed.

The out-dated and anti-competitive attitudes of the average pro-union/mob American worker and their ill-informed advocates will only help our industries to depart across the borders and into places with workers that don't take employment for granted, or expect more than they earn.

Its not that the other supermarkets charge more because of overhead, its that Walmart is so big, they can get extremely large discounts. No other companies can compete, when Walmart can buy millions of units a month of a single product..

Walmart generates something like $600.00 a minute (or some rediculous number).

And I found some interesting tidbits about Walmart..

*A Substantial Number of Wal-Mart Associates earn far below the poverty line

* In 2001, the last year for which Wal-Mart has released figures for most occupations, sales associates, the most common job in Wal-Mart, earned on average $8.23 an hour for annual wages of $13,861.The 2001 poverty line for a family of three was $14,630. [“Is Wal-Mart Too Powerful?”, Business Week, 10/6/03 and US Dept of Health and Human Services 2001 Poverty Guidelines, 2001]
* A 2003 wage analysis reported that cashiers, the second most common job, earn approximately $7.92 per hour and work 29 hours a week. This brings in annual wages of only $11,948. [“Statistical Analysis of Gender Patterns in Wal-Mart’s Workforce”, Dr. Richard Drogin 2003]"

Wal-Mart Associates don't earn enough to support a family

* The national median family budget in the United States for a two-person family (one parent and one child) in 1999 was $23,705, well above the average associate's annual wages of $13,861. [“Poverty and Family Budgets” online at www.epinet.org]

Wal-Mart can afford wage increases

* Wal-Mart can cover the cost of a dollar an hour wage increase by raising prices a half penny per dollar. For instance, a $2.00 pair of socks would then cost $2.01. This minimal increase would annually add up to $1,800 for each employee. [Analysis of Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005]

Wal-Mart forces employees to work off-the-clock

* As of the printing of their 2005 Annual Report, Wal-Mart faced 44 wage and hour lawsuits. Major law-suits have either been won or are working their way through the legal process in states such as California, Indiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, and Washington. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005]
* Wal-Mart was recently ordered by courts to pay up to 120 workers in Gallup, New Mexico and 400 workers in 27 stores in Oregon for violating wage and hour laws.
* In 2002, statisticians estimated Wal-Mart shortchanged its Texas workers $150 million over four years by regularly not paying them for working through their 15-minute breaks. [Sources include Associated Press, "Federal Jury Finds Wal-Mart Guilty in Overtime Pay Case," Chicago Tribune, Business 3, 12/20/03 and Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the Clock,” New York Times, A1, 6/25/02)]

Wal-Mart violates the Fair Labor Standards Act

* One week of time records from 25,000 employees in July 2000 found 1,371 instances of minors working too late, during school hours, or for too many hours in a day. There were 60,767 missed breaks and 15,705 lost meal times. [Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the Clock,” New York Times, A1, 6/25/02]*

*It's also genious.*

Its spelled g-e-n-i-u-s, genius.

Well said. I don't hate them for being smart enough to make billions, I'm jealous that I can't think of a way to do the same thing. This is America. This is what America is all about. Freedom to better yourself & your company. Its not like they hold a gun to anyones head and make them shop at Wal-Mart.

should have called him a genious. ;P

yes, and I cannot see Walmart buying all these various parts to keep in their store for the "just in case" scenario that Little-Jimmie will come in one day and order a PC special and wait for it to be built in front of his eyes.

Slapping in more memory or adding a video card is not considered a specialty PC. Walmart can't handle the cost of service and product in their stores to support such a venue. I really think this will be a great thought on paper, but not in reality - for them.

I agree "genius" ????????? That is quite a leap. You already can't find employees when you need help, but they are going to hire a tech to put together PCs. Actually, he will be the autoumotive serviceman that will have to come over when there is a urgent page from that manager wondering "what the H**** was corporate thinking when they thought of this".

He'll have to be paid more than their manager and that won't happen unless they get the snot-nosed kid from down the street that builds them for his buddies. I really want to see how this all plays out. What will this "build-to-order" really look like.
IMO

"Its not that the other supermarkets charge more because of overhead, its that Walmart is so big, they can get extremely large discounts."

Just a point that although this is true, the far more pervasive and negative aspect of it is that Walmart can and does use the incredible power of their "shelf presence" as it were to FORCE suppliers to lower their prices. Often to a severe detrimental effect on that supplier. One needs only to look as far as Rubbermaid to see that it in action. I think it was Frontline that did a show on Walmart and it's market practices. Honestly since seeing that and reading some more online I can't in good conscious, shop at any Walmart.

EDIT: Yep it was Frontline. Good show, I recommend any Walmart supporters to watch this and THEN come tell us how wonderful Walmart is.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/...frontline/shows/walmart/

See, if I were a member of the Good Grammar Browsers Union Local 442, then maybe I'd be a good quality enough poster to have caught that error! :p

Do you need dual core to look at porn?

OPnly if you want to run multiple vids on multiple monitors.

Dual-Core SLI, baby!

I can't help but feel like Walmart is going to sell thousands of computers and make money doing it. I also doubt they care what kind of computer expert anyone is. They are in business to make money, not sell elite computers. Nuff Said!

I would agree. I am rather surprised that it has taken them this long to enter into this market niche.

Its a shame this entire site is simply an emotional rant against Wal-Mart and not a discussion of the business model - especially as so many erudite technoids think assembling simple tested standardized options that can be configured by matching circles and arrows and in an automated test bay requires a rocket scientist to configure! And a simple walol chart can explain - in functional terms - meaning, if you want to play games you would want this or that, and if you want to do this, you want this or that, and so on!

People, despite the denigration of the real idjits here, CAN figure out what they want to do, be it chat with their friends or grandkids, take and send pictures, or play games, or whatever!

And I cannot believe that I have heard overclocking mentioned anywhere in a discussion of entry to mid-level machines! Absolutely amazing! But its always nice to be able to use a new work in a sentence I guess!

I doubt it, Walmart sells staples.. not extras.

you go there to buy clothes, toiletries, food, bath, and other neccessities, when was the last time you went to Walmart to buy a stereo, or a large purchase item? You don't..

This is going to be a short lived attempt by Walmart to sell cheap a** machines. They are probably NOT going to be very high end at all, and they will be very minimal specs.

Sure they will make SOME money, but people won't be flocking to Walmart to buy a computer.. They aren't setup to give advice in the first place, you go in, you buy what need, and leave. You don't hang around to SHOP Walmart.. Its a place you go for stuff you ALREADY know what you are looking for.

Honestly, who the hell is going to want a custom computer from Walmart? Certainly not the Mom and Pops that don't know anything about computers, they wont even understand the choices. BTO computers are meant for the more savvy individuals, and anyone savvy enough to know to have a computer built to their specifications is also going to be savvy enough to know that Walmart isn't the place to get that done. I can't imagine this lasting very long or being terribly successful. I mean seriously, what if I want the latest and greatest ASUS board, NVIDIA card and a top end LCD...is Walmart going to carry all this stuff in some back room so they can build exactly what I want while I sit there and wait? Not freakin likely.

Cheap Gaming machine that can be pawned on ebay:

Any $60 Mobo
Any Athlon XP 2.0+ ghz ($80) - overclock it
7800GS ($300)
Sweet LCD monitor 1650x1050($300)
Blue Orb of death ($30?)
2-3-3-6 PC3200 2x512mb ($120)

There ya go - plays just about anything maxed out, assuming you have a HD, mouse, keyboard, etc. Use software tweaks where necessary to gain even more performance. Adding a keyboard and Razer gaming mouse doesn't even kick it above $1000, though if you want a new HD...

What the hell is the Blue Orb of Death?

I think he is making stuff up, 30 dollars, maybe its a fan.. or in his case maybe a bong!

Im guessing it's this:

http://www.tigerdirect.c...43572&sku=T925-2148

Ooooh...pretty.

Does it do anything other than spin blades? For $40, it sure as hell better.

Yes, it is blue!!!!!

It's blue....AND it cools very well!

I have several friends with these(I need to buy a new CPU so I can get one =D ), and assuming you put it on right, their average temp seems to be able ~28-32C with Athlon 64's. Leaves a LARGE range for overclocking.

Crazy.

heheh.. I spent almost a hundred bucks for my CPU fan.. Its copper, its huge, and its got variable speeds.. supposed to be one of the best..

Blue Orbs are crazy, but on some motherboards they block a slot or two of memory. They seem to be the most incredible cooling, because they suck up air from just about anywhere.

I've seen some pretty spiffy copper-heatpipe dual-fan HSF's, but if the air is coming from the wrong direction they lose quite a lot of their oomph. I guess that means you need some knowledge selecting a case, as well(which I don't really have :P ).

it's not going to work

Wow, I acually forgot what i was reading..you guys drift to much- go somewhere else to talk about what games run on what- WE ALL know PC_Tool is not making sence- ignore him guys come on--doom3 on an onboard chip- give me a break

*WE ALL know PC_Tool is not making sence*

dude, its spelled s-e-n-s-e, you dumb ass.

If you are going to lambast someone, you better have your ducks in a row.

What's wrong with an onboard chip? They already have embedded OS, its called the Tablet, you newb.. This is just one more step.

PC_Tool has more knowledge about tech stuff in his pecker than you have in your entire redneck family, you twit.

Don't diss PC_Tool. The Sony PS3 that you'll hopefully be able to afford, pretty much accomplishes that..you'll see how it'll knock your(and mine) socks off.

um last time i checked it wasnt pc_tool who made that post.

yeah asus includes some pretty kick-ass nvidia onboards on most of their mobo's now

You posted to the wrong person, I wasn't dissing PC_Tool...

I'm blushing...really. ;)

I suppose we can't expect everyone who posts here to be up to speed on 3+ month old hardware, right?

When did they start letting the mental patients online? I'll call the nurse...seems you missed a dose... and you're drooling again.

*sigh*

Never enough good help these days...

Lol, now the people at Wal-mart will tell someone "well, if you don't get a dual core, 64 bit processor, you'll need to get a new computer soon". I'm sorry, but dell gives me enough customization. I can choose between a 2.8Ghz or 3.4Ghz processor, I can change the video card I want.

However, I still believe that if you know what the hell you're doing, then go ahead and build your own. NO-ONE actually needs a dual core processor. Except for (high traffic) servers maybe. But if someone wants to put a really expensive processor in their computer, they can go right ahead. Most games out now will run no problem on a Dell with 256MB of ram, integrated graphics, and 1.9Ghz processor. But, the quality won't be as good.

New games require dual-core(or one hell of an overclock) to enable all features. There's also a big difference performance wise between a P4 3.0ghz and an Athlon 3.0ghz. The P4 isn't going to run the newest games maxed out, but the Athlon quite likely would.

Everyone should have at least 512mb by now if they want to play anything.

yeah, try running NFS Most wanted on your 1.9GHz
or Doom with your "integrated" video and tell me how it looks :P
( that is of course if you manage to make them run )

Which games would those be? No games currently available make use of dual core, and there's only speculation future games will. I call bulls***.

That's a ridiculous statement, if I've ever read one. Even a home user who does a lot of multi-tasking will see the benefits of dual-core. Sure, they may not NEED it, but then they could also get away with a freakin typewriter, couldn't they? :P The fact is, dual-core can make them more productive.

There are many games that will not run on integrated graphics at all, let alone with only 256MB of RAM. Try Battlefield 2, CoD2, Oblivion, WoW, NFS, Doom 3, FEAR, etc, etc. They simple will not be playable on integrated graphics - nothing about low quality settings. Even on the lowest, you won't be able to play the game.

Games like Oblivion(Elder Scrolls IV) fully utilize Dual Core CPUs. New rendering, audio, AI, physics, and loading features are enabled if your system has the power to spare.

If your system does not have the power(ie Single-core), then it cuts back on all of the above. To be more efficient at physics or AI calculations, it may ignore the videocard for a few ms here and there(which would result in lower framerates), or perform less accurate(though undistinguishable) audio conversions, etc.

WoW, NFS, DOOM3, and FEAR run JUST FINE on an integrated nVidia 6150 chipset. I've played them all on my Asus A8N VM CSM (~$70). They run and play quite well.

On meduim quality settings, even. Hell, Far Cry looks gorgeous.

Don't give me this "integrated doesn't cut it" BS. I know better.

If you're referrring to a specific chipset, name it. Don't blanket the entire integrated market with a statement like that. It makes you look like an idiot.

Looks good. :)

Perhaps you should be more specific? You must be referring to a specific chipset or manufacturer, right?

Don't tell me you haven't heard of the nVidia integrated graphics solution. It;s been out and available for months...works quite well, actually. On the cheap, even.

Yeah!

"or perform less accurate(though undistinguishable) audio conversions"

Gee...sounds usefull.

Yeah there isn't a game on the market that REQUIRES dual core, moron. What kind of a** are you trying to make of yourself now?

Most top end games still have specs well under 2gig processor and 512 meg of ram, NEWB!

No dude, I have Oblivion, when I installed the game, it automatically detects my system.. I get HIGH specs, and everything is automatically turned on. I have LGA 530 proc, 1 gig ram, ATI X800XT. So where is there a dual core on there, and oblivion needs? hmmm.?

I guess you dont' know as much as you think.

Yes it is BS.

Toot-toot-tu-roo-roo-roo-toot-tu-toot,
toot-toot-tu-roo-roo-roo-toot-tu-toot...
Step right up folks, step right up!
To the Barnum & Bailey, Ringling Bros. Circus Show!!
In the Oddities portion of our show-- the Freaks of the Freaks-- you will witness for the first time ever--the very first member of a New Human Subspecies:
Ladies & Gentlemen: the first & only....Dell Fanboy!!!! : wheel4hummer !!!!!!!!
Ladies & Gentlemen, he will proceed to entertain you by uttering the most ' utter & complete illogicalities' you've never heard before! Pearls such as: "Most games out now will run no problem....But, the quality won't be as good."
A collective "Huh!?!?!?" emanates from the collective fallen jaw of the crowd, setting loose copious amounts of collective drool to flow down the collective chest-- lazily, like the molten lava of a spewing volcano, until finally coming to rest in huge pools of slime...on the collective crotch...

Dual-core does not equal more power. It means you have the capability of running two threads at once, as if you had two processors. No game currently on the market makes requests to the CPU with two threads at once. No games have optimisations to use two threads at once. Thus, dual-core offers no advantage for current games.

The ONLY advantage it may have, is if you run your Windows + apps on one core in the background, and use the second core to run your game, exclusively. That is the *only* situation where there's an advantage, at present.

If you're still not convinced, please explain why AMD's gamer CPUs (FX series) are still single core?

>> "New games require dual-core(or one hell of an overclock) to enable all features."

You just made a complete fool of yourself...not that you had any credibility to stand on already.

Just fine is not the same as running the way it should.

As a system builder, I agree with you that the 6150 chipset (and even ATi's new one) are leagues ahead of anything previously seen on integrated graphics, they still don't offer performance that most gamers would be happy with - they'd still be better off with a console. Don't forget that integrated solutions also tax your system RAM... another problem for gamers on low-budget systems. 256MB of RAM... take 128MB for your graphics... I can see a modern game coming to a grinding halt right there.

If you think Far Cry looks gorgeous on the 6150, then clearly you and I have a different idea of what 'good graphics' is on a PC. And Doom? 20fps at 800x600 (as benched by AnandTech) does not count as "JUST FINE" in my book.

"Don't give me this "integrated doesn't cut it" BS. I know better."

Clearly you don't know better - otherwise you wouldn't be recommending integrated graphics to people who actually want to play games now and into the future. There is NO WAY an integrated solution available today is going to be sufficient for gaming in even 12 months, let alone the average 3 year life of a machine.

Don't recommend integrated chipsets to gamers, it makes you look like an idiot. Moreover, those who build gamer systems also think you're an idiot. :P Tool indeed.

I think he meant "play", not just get it running in jerk-o-vision screenshot mode.

Quit insulting me.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't grasp what dual core is at all. All decent single-core processors can run 2 threads at once. Some can even run 4.

Due to things getting smaller, it's possible to fit the tinier "cores" into the same "CPU". Each "core" is effectively a new CPU, except that they both must run the same mhz speed, and both are inside the same CPU.

The ALREADY RELEASED AND BUYABLE FX-60 is dualcore.

Here is something from Oblivion's devs, that directly supports what I stated: http://www.bit-tech.net/...er_scrolls_4_int/2.html

"BT: The Xbox processor will be multiple core, which at the time of Morrowind (2002) was a nearly unthinkable idea for a gaming PC or console. However, by the release of ES4: Oblivion (now 2006), the Pentium-D and Athlon 64 X2 dual-core processors will be even more common place. The Pentium-D EE even features hyperthreading on each core! Will Oblivion be written to make use of these new features on the PC? If so, have you determined how threads will be divided (by class, like AI, physics, etc, or by immediate priority where physics could dominate two threads if little AI is present)?

GC: Oblivion will absolutely benefit from a multi-processor or multi-core PC architecture. These improvements have largely been driven by our optimizations for the Xbox 360 hardware. We have built a dynamic thread management system that manages processor load by our specific direction and by priorities. Portions of physics, AI, loading, audio, and rendering tasks can all be moved to different threads to keep the overall load balanced. The net result for the end user is a smoother experience."

*cough* :-/

I said to enable ALL features. If a game supports any new dual-core features, you require dual-core to enable them all...duh?

If it can't run 1680x1050x32 8xAA 16xAS smooth then it isn't for me. :P

WOW

what's a dual core feature?

Supporting new game features if you have dual-core.

what features are you talking about?

>> Kramy: "New rendering, audio, AI, physics, and loading features..."

>> Developer: "Portions of physics, AI, loading, audio, and rendering tasks can all be moved to different threads to keep the overall load balanced. The net result for the end user is a smoother experience."

Just shut up before you look even worse, just to test you try listing some multi-threaded games for us, ahhaha :P

You are the stupidest dumb person i have ever heard in my life, you have no clue what your talking about.

Dual core options? ahahahahhahaha what a MORON

Jackass.

Plays just fine. Medium settings. Get a clue.

Here I thought you'd simply be smart about this and admit you were talking about the Intel integrated graphics solutions, and were incorrect in making a blanket statement to apply to *all* integrated options. Instead, you had to go and playt eh jackass.

Okay. I can play too.

Are you really that stupid?

Did I say it was fit for a gaming rig?

Did I say it was going to blow stand-alone GPU's out of the water?

No?

Well...I suppose when one cannot debate the stated facts, it's best just to pretend someone said it, right?

My rig has 2GB of RAM, and an AMD 64 3800 CPU. It plays Doom 3 on it's detected settings smoothly and without jitter. It plays FarCry on medium settings smoothly and without jitter.

What more do you expect?

I merely pointed out that it is *not* impossible to play these games with an integrated chipset...nor is it a chore. Far from it, in fact, the nVidia offering works quite well on a budget gaming system, especially considering there's always the open PCI-e slot for future upgrades.

lmao...

Perfect candidate for the SLI then. Hope you got a ton of $$$.

REAL gamers don't run higher than 1280 x 1024.

The average monitor or flat panel can't go higher than that anyway...and if it did, you would lose refresh rate, refresh is more important than size.

He was talking about Walmart machines, try to keep this in context would you?

Walmart is build to order, what, game machines? now way, they would cost 2000+. Walmart isn't going after that market, they want the 300-500 customers, which is why this is a joke.

Ritilin or Prozac.. decisions decisions..

I don't have a dual-core you dweeb, read my damn post, you pathetic dribble. I *enable all features* you pedantic worthless waste of free air.

I don't HAVE a dual-core, that was my damn point, you hapless ignoramous.

That would be like redundant. You are insult to yourself.

If you can't stand the heat, there is always the door! We aren't holding a gun to your head to keep you here.

Dude you are moron.

Dual-core means 4 threads, you twit.

I have HT, and I can run 2 threads. First of all its not threads at all, it means dual processor, Windows treats a HT proc, like a dual processor, which already a single Celly can still run multiple threads. A dual-core appears like 4 processors.

So the dual-core threading, is depending on MHz or clock cycles. EACH clock cycle hertz is the ability to run multiple passes or threads for a process, so a 4 gig proc it has 4 billion clock cycles PER CPU PER SECOND.

So some can run 4 threads? Wow, I could do that back in the 4.77 mhz days from the original IBM machines.

Tinier cores, is the die size, that is for heat, not for fitting more data on a chip. smaller dies equals less surface which equals less heat.

There are *NO* games that *require* a dual-core. Show me a website to contest this.

Yes, maybe games like Oblivion CAN take advantage of dual core, but games are GRAPHIC senstive, not CPU sensitive, VIDEO makes the difference. I could push an SLI with 1.6 AMD chip, but that's not going to make Oblivion run worse graphic wise, just a little slower...

*GC: Oblivion will absolutely benefit from a multi-processor or multi-core PC architecture.*

EVERY game will benefit from multi-processor, you newb. Not just Oblivion.

ALL games support the dynamic thread management, that's called MMX extensions, which is built into the hardware, which is supported by the OS (but not by Linux!) and supported by DirectX. that's hype, not technical support, you dolt.

Doom 3 does it much better, Half Life does it, WOW does it, a lot of games have this same feature, its NOT unique. What does your relative own stock in that game?

So if I have Oblivion, and I have ALL features enabled, and my game runs fine, and I *DON'T* have dual-core, then obviously, you are WRONG!

a faster processor will give you a smoother experience too.
that's not a feature, stop misleading people

you didnt also happen to buy one of those prebuilt rigs on newegg like i did, did you?

i got that abs one for 400 the awesomme 2 or something and it plays doom3 and quake 4 great at 30fps. and yes thats not really that good, but its not piss poor. once i added more ram and a geforce 6800gt the rig makes a great gaming machine for about 600. not bad in my book.

sad that he is right and you arent isnt it?

a large percentage of the dells out now will play most of the games out there. just not any dell running a s***ty intel integrated graphics chip, cause they suck.

i think you need to cite specific experiances on specific hardware, or shut up and not make generalized clueless statements.

me im a dell tech, network admin, and run my own custom pc business. and i can tell you that the integrated nvidia chips can run many programs and games at decent display settings smoothly. as well as most dells (precisions runnind nvidia cards, any gx series, and many dimensions, as long as they dont use intel integrated cards) run games like doom3 and WoW just fine.

those are my exp. now where are yours?

thanks for that, i was tired of his ranting

Why? What kind of "real" gamers? FPS gamers, RTS gamers? RPG gamers?

No offense, but anyone playing something like Oblivion should be enjoying it fully - and if even higher resolution graphics enhance that, then go for it. Refresh rate isn't terribly important to me as long as it doesn't flicker. Until recently I didn't have the money to buy anything but cheap monitors, so I've had 60hz all my life. You can't see the flicker if you look directly at the screen.

That said, I know someone that plays Warcraft III(melee - RTS) on a P3 550mhz. He's incredibly good, but if you have an AI or two on the map then he lags out. O_o

I think having faster/better/prettier hardware has its benefits, to a point and from a point.

I've got 4 people attacking me - ofcourse I'm ranting. :/

I'm trying to explain it to someone in simple terms. Dual-core processors are newer(duh) and support newer instruction sets like SSE2/3. Though I was not referring to that, someone is going to nail me on that too, so I might as well mention that last I checked Athlon 64's support those as well.

Now...back to what I was saying...I'm shocked nobody was able to comprehend what that line meant. All these people attack me when I stated a simple fact, that (duh) many new games take advantage of dual-core for new features. How did that turn into this?

You don't have all features enabled. You have all features they let you change, enabled.

To enable all features for the best possible experience, you probably also need a spiffy soundcard too, but lets just drop this since it's no longer going anywhere.

(Creative released a new soundcard a while ago(2005?) that can manage 128 different audio channels or something...crazy sound quality compared to Realtek AC 97)

>> Dual-core means 4 threads, you twit.

Really? Did not know that. A few years back I read about an experimental 4-simultanious-thread processor. I guess it may have been a dual-core test.

Hyperthreading is slightly different from dual-core, in that if needed a single thread can take all* the time(verified using benchmarks that allow enabling/disabling hyperthreading - performance was still between 95-100%).

Last I heard Hyper Threading cuts down wasted time between processing threads, but does not refer to the ability to simultaniously process multiple of them. I was partly wrong:
http://www.osdcom.info/content/view/30/39/

>> So some can run 4 threads? Wow, I could do that back in the 4.77 mhz days from the original IBM machines.

Ahh...damn, can't tell if you're joking or not.

Games can be CPU intense or GPU intense. Warcraft III is CPU intense. There was also a not so great, but extremely graphical space game that was CPU intense(can not remember the name), and so had 0 benefits from SLI. Most newer games are GPU intense because it's smarter to stress the strongest component, and that leaves time for *cough* other features.

>> There are *NO* games that *require* a dual-core. Show me a website to contest this.

I never said that, and I said several times that I did not mean that. As you stated, no game currently requites dual core. It is only required for some high-end features that nobody currently needs.

>>
EVERY game will benefit from multi-processor, you newb. Not just Oblivion.

Actually, Warcraft III: TFT doesn't. :P

Dual-core makes it load slower and get more laggy. It also introduces bugs into custom maps due to a short-sighted dev error. On single-core systems, getting internal game-ticks returns the normalized time(just like GetTickCount() in windows). On dual-core systems, it returns the tick count. That results in thousands of times faster timers, that totally screw up custom maps, ontop of the engine going slower if it uses the second core.

I've heard that WoW doesn't mind dual-core though, so most of that is developer error. :P

>>
ALL games support the dynamic thread management, that's called MMX extensions, which is built into the hardware, which is supported by the OS (but not by Linux!) and supported by DirectX. that's hype, not technical support, you dolt.

"Load balancing"...You mean all games automatically move random threads to different cores if available, then measure the loads to see where other threads should be s***ed to depending on the currently taxed ones? Cool.

>> Doom 3 does it much better, Half Life does it, WOW does it, a lot of games have this same feature, its NOT unique. What does your relative own stock in that game?

No, I was just using it as a single example to state that dual-core is used by games. Then I had lots of people attack me over wording. :P

I'm not leaving until this debate is over. Right now you're about the only person here that has proven he knows something, but I have all these other people shouting "Yeah!", "Moron", "Stupid!" at me. It's irritating when they clearly know less, getting simple things even more wrong than I do.

You've argued very well, but your insults are uncalled for.

Multi-threaded?...You mean I should open taskmanager, display the number of threads, then play [insert game here] and post a screenshot for you to admire?

Everyone already knows commercial games are multi-threaded...a single-thread game would be quite suicidal considering where things are going.

You have proven below that you know more than the rest of the people arguing with me. I still don't think you're enabling everything in Oblivion to the best possible, though. I know for certain that I'm not, though I use hacked drivers, overclocking, and other tweaks to improve performance and image quality.

So will a faster videocard. A smoother experience isn't a feature(obviously). How internal gamedata is handled depending on your hardware, is.

It's just not one most people care about.

Look you dumb ass, blind stupid, moronic, imbecile, newb, loser pansy a** dork, don't TELL me what is enabled and what isn't.

I don't have *ANY* damn greyed out features. I am not sending you a screen shot, I am *TELLING* your dumb lame retarded ass, that I have *ALL* that means EVERY not just available feature enabled, you damn hard headed bafoon.

EVERY feature is on *HIGH* -*AND*- Enabled.

no they don't, I have support for SSE2/3, dual core is newer, but its only faster and smaller core, that's basically the ONLY difference.

you worded it wrong

many games take advantage of dual core - yes
does dual core give new features - no
does dual core have smoother game play - yes (on games that take advantage of it, as compared to single core of equal speed)

point being, a dual core doesn't have any features that a single core doesn't, it just has the capability of processing two threads in the same instructions at the same time.

i understand your point though.
i see a time soon when each AI in a game will have its own proc running it. be like, super intelligent baddies.

So what's fully? WTF, that is preference, so now you are dictating to the public what they find "fully satisfying"??!?!

Go visit ANY gamer board, they will tell what they run, 1280x1024 is about as high as anyone goes, because everyone wants flat panel, and flat panels only go that high, so maybe your antiquated, system you run some rigged up system with your tv set connected to your computer, that's you

Again with the not reading what I said...

"anyone playing something like Oblivion should be enjoying it fully - and if even higher resolution graphics enhance that, then go for it."
That means the option is open for "real" gamers to buy better stuff - or they don't have to if they don't want to. You were the one that stated ABSOLUTELY that they do not do something. I merely offered an option. FYI, I do run 1280x1024 right now. :P

There's 1900x1440 flat panels, last I checked. I'm not inclined to spend that much though($1000+!), as it would be better put to use on a videocard. $300 will get you a 1650x1050 20.1" LCD.

many games take advantage of dual core - yes
does dual core give new features - no
--do some games enable new internal unseen features for dual core? - yes
does dual core have smoother game play - yes (on games that take advantage of it, as compared to single core of equal speed)

>> i understand your point though.
i see a time soon when each AI in a game will have its own proc running it. be like, super intelligent baddies.

That will be awesome! :D

I think we're miscommunicating things. To me a feature is a single internal possible enhancement. If a game was coded to detect Reiser4 filesystems and to enhance loading by not worrying about creating oodles of tiny saved game files, then that's a feature. It can not be enabled without having the Reiser4 Filesystem, and it is not needed(nor enjoyed) by most people. Those that do have such a filesystem would benefit from faster loading, by having the saved games optimized for what it does fastest.

Now obviously, that means games have a lot more engine features than listed. On the positive side, you can talk about these features and then get slammed in debates because everyone else is only referring to things that affect their system.

A true Zen Master of BetaNews would ignore the attacks, avoid the ranting, and stick to the facts.

...You have much to learn, young one.

That is definately a plus. Things get boring too easily nowadays. we *need* controversy and chaos.

"Normalcy" is boring. *grin*

Here, man....have some...er, ... water.

Yeah, don't mind the smell, it's um...well-water. yeah... From Minsk. ;)

Don't hold back. :)

Maybe you have unlimited income, or maybe you like to spend your grand parents inheritance, you still have not proved your point.

Its about damn time you acknowledge that CPU is only part of the picture.. Video is the key.

Well there is an amazing admission. I dont' care if you believe me or not, I am running Oblivion with everything turned on. I play more games than probably 98% of people I know, and I keep up with hardware, video updates..

I *know* games. I also know how to configure software, so you don't want to believe me that I can turn everything on, fine. I dont' care if you believe me. I don't have to overclock, if you get the right combination of CPU and memory you wont' need to overclocking.

Overclock is for pansys, it doesn't get you but a couple of FPS, MAX! We are talking very small increases, and its not worth the hassle of resetting every time my machine rebooted, to figure out if it was an overclock prob, or just game issue, so I quit doing it. Its not worth the effort.

On a side note, I hate Oblivion, it crashes way too much, and stuff gets removed from my pack every time I save and reload. Its happened more than once, the game is crap.

Even fully enabled, it still has some very crappy detail. I have everything turned on, higher resolution, and Doom3 worked way better.

Well stop being a jack ass, and maybe we can have a civilized conversation...

*EVERY game will benefit from multi-processor, you newb. Not just Oblivion.

Actually, Warcraft III: TFT doesn't. :P*

This is EASY to prove.

You are telling me, that if I run TFT (which I play for 4 hours every night) on HT proc, that if I ran this same game on a dual proc with exactly the same specs, that the game won't run any faster or smoother?

That's rediculous. I know what you are trying to say, that the game won't take advantage of affinity processing, and therefore it won't be able to split the game across the 2, or 4 processors, but I don't think any games do that, SANS Doom, and that requires a specific mod for it to work.

ANY software can benefit from more processors, they may not be able to OPTIMIZE for the extra processor, but more engine power the better.

Windows XP itself will do the processing for you, and games will be able to benefit, even just a small 10% or 15%

...How does that relate to LCD monitors?

I have already acknowledged that.

Hmm...interesting.

Well, I find overclocking fun. It can gain bigger performance boosts than you know. I used to have a GeForce 2 MX 400, and believe me - you overclocked THAT! I also briefly had a 6600(non-GT), which I overclocked from 300/500mhz to 480/580mhz. That boosted framerates in games like wc3 at 8xAA from about 2-4fps to ~18-30fps, so there was a major problem there. It performed about like a GT benchmarks wise.

I admit that my CPU isn't terribly overclocked. It's an old Barton XP that's hard-locked, and if I go any higher then programs on occasion crash. Every little bit helps though, so if I can grab an extra 200mhz then I will.

I have a friend that complained of oodles of crashes in Oblivion on on his WinXP64 computer. He even got a couple blue screens, so I thought it was hardware related. Maybe not?

>> Windows XP itself will do the processing for you, and games will be able to benefit, even just a small 10% or 15%

Ahh, you are correct there. Well, I've been under the impression right from the start that Oblivion takes advantage of this "affinity processing" thing. :P The way they described it(with multi-core, not dual-core), I gathered it would adapt based on however many processors your system has(to a point).

Warcraft III: TFT will get that 10 to 15% better performance, but if you overclock your performance will immediately drop to less than 50%(bug). Load times become insane, and the engine starts messing things up.

On a non-overclocked dual-core, the TFT engine will still mess up on the ticks, which wrecks havoc upon hundreds of custom maps created by anyone that doesn't know.

:D

But you called someone a jackass. ;)

**** Dell

"$300 will get you a 1650x1050 20.1" LCD."

Where? Not dissing you, just honestly curious. Cheapest I could find anything even close to that was $497.

Bullet to the cranium?

One needs only lok at the topic headline to realize we're not talking about $3000 systems with a pair of $600 GPUs.

Apparently, he can't read headlines.

He's also apparently never seen an nVidia 61250 in action.

Anand (AnandTech) is used to SLI setups. Once you go SLI, you don't go back. Therefore, any comments from him and his cronies regarding quality need to be taken with a few hefty grains of salt (about 10lbs should do).

I've been playing Far Cry on this setup for a week now. It hasn't stuttered, jittered, or done anything but play flawlessly the entire time. No missing textures, no artifacts. The people are shaped like people, etc...

On a budget gaming rig, like one that might go over well at Wally-World, the nV 6150 LE is unbeatable. The fact that one can add a PCI-e GPU to this baby is just icing on the cake, considering the MBD only runs ~$70 bucks online.

(Similar configs would cost $60 for the MBD, and $200 for the equivelant stand-alone GPU, for $260... Talk about a no-brainer.)

The only overclocking I'll do with my beast is buy the BFG 7600 GT ($184 after $30 rebate). Comes overclocked with a "true" lifetime warranty.

So many people ruin their systems via overclocking...without realizing they've voided the warranty.

I'll probably buy one, use it for a bit on my Asus A8n, eventually swap the A8N for an SLI board and throw another 7600 GT in there. Whallah! 2 overclocked 7600GT's for under $400 in SLI.

Yum.

internal unseen features eh?
is this like believing in god?
i'd need some proof concerning the videogames at least, i've seen no miracles from them yet.

sorry, but i still wouldn't call that a feature, just good programming

Call 'em as I see 'em.

It wasn't as though it was undesereved.

Of course, I also never said I was a Zen Master, either. ;)

Yeah, tell him how you *really* feel.

http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16824112176

A 7600GT has significantly less performance than a 7900GT. Even with two SLI'd, you're not going to come close to the 7900GT. The 7900 is 256bit as well, while the 7600's are 128bit and have many less pipes if I remember right.

Also consider that a 7900GT can be as cheap as $300, and you're losing LOTS of money by buying 7600GT's and SLI'ing them.

http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16814130015

I call that a feature because of my work with pallettes.

First attempt: Loop through colours.

As you may or may not imagine, that turned out very bad, since to find a colour in say...a JPEG image, you might have to loop through millions of colours per pixel to see if it's in the pallette.

Second attempt: Linked pointer list for RGB values.

Turned out very good. At a maximum it had to check 256*3 (RGB) values.

I never did get a linked bitlist finished...oh, I can just picture the memory wastage. Anyway, I suppose good programming would fit, but then "good programming" includes clever features that are hard to understand, but improve performance.

No, he was NOT talking about Walmart machines, nor was I. Try reading. That was the point I made. :P

Actually, many real gamers still prefer CRTs, as they can get their 21" screen to pull 120-150Hz @ 1600x1200, or higher. This is particularly import for FPS players, where the 60Hz offered by LCDs (75, if you lucky) is simply not enough.

If I used my machine purely for games, I would still be using a CRT. LCDs haven't caught up enough to make them a better choice for the hardcore players.

I actually agree with you 100% regarding CRT vs. Bought 'em on the cheap from work when they ditched their Design department for 3 months in a momentary fit of insanity. Heh...

Lucky me. ;)

eVGA? Kidding, right? Do they warranty the card once you overclock it? No?

I'll stick with the OC'd BFG cards, of which teh 7900 GTX 512MB PCI-e retails for ~$550.

"BFG BFGR79512GTXOCE GEFORCE 7900 GTX 512MB DDR3 PCI-E 1640MHZ W/HDTV & VIVO $549.00"

Everyone already knows? I suspect I can ask my wife and all my coworkers and they won't have a clue. Btw, not all commercial games are multi-threaded. Or are you using a different meaning of multi-threaded?

You don't need the 512mb yet for anything. Hacked drivers can give the same performance on a 256mb card as you would get on a 512mb card, by better managing how data is moved to and from the card(textures, for example).

Your beloved BFG: http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16814143048

Go ahead and spend that $220 extra for a 5% performance boost.

I knew you'd latch right onto that word. :P

It's not my fault they don't know games are multi-threaded. Multi-threaded...means it has multiple threads, just like how multi-processor means you have multiple processors. I'm staring at Warcraft III's 16 threads right now, and Kohan II's 12. That's in the mainmenus...

If you can find a game with a single thread, then post its name.

i have heard a rumor from a buddy of mine, that works for asus and i hear they may offer SLI to work with the onboard and the pci-e slot.. which would be great for budget, but i wonder how it would work.

funny thing is hacked drivers like omega drivers and such void the warrenty, or didnt you read the small text upon installing the original drivers for your card?

doom 2

i heard they had a patch for that someplace, but on the other hand many games just let xp handle the thread controlling and obey what the os says. that way they dont need special programing to use the dual cores and dual cpu's. i think they just included the programing straight into oblivion to handle it thus bypassing xp's conrtol of it improving speed. thats just a guess based on what they said, ill try to find some proof of that, or correct myself if im wrong, either way...

yeah point taken

well there is load balancing but i believe windows controls that so i dont know if i would call that a feature, but i get what kramey is saying on it.

Yummy. I want.

lmao..

Did I ever say I'd buy it at that price?

No?

Okay then....can you remember the one I *DID* say I'd buy? For $184?

Allrighty then. Try and keep up, eh?

Also, you're paying for mor ethen just the performance boost. BFG support and warranties are the best, bar-none.

I may eventually upgrade to something like that, but only after 3 or more generations have come and gone. I never buy the top of the line.

BFG cards come with their own drivers, and are overclocked by the manufacturer. They come with a lifetime warranty and the best support out there.

Did you actually do any homework before posting, or are you talking out of your a** again?

lmao..

Care to try naming one that *isn't* ancient?

I'd never use Omega drivers on an nVidia card. :P

He didn't state modern commercial games, just commercial games. :>

http://www.computerpower...9c08/19c08.asp&guid=

So many rich & ignorant kiddies in here, it's unbelievable.

Get a clue, kids. Most people don't need dual core processors in their computers. They don't need 500$ video cards either. Pre-built computers are good for most users out there, in the real world. Actually, the newest onboard video chips are good enough for tons of games. But hey, who the hell would sell such a computer to hardcore gamers anyway?

Why the hell are you bashing WM? They will use existing PARTS. They aren't MAKING them, they're just assembling them. Building computers is so easy nowadays, even 8 year old kids can do it. You guys are writing so much bs, you make yourself look ignorant.

Oh, wait.. They won't overclock it, that's why. Oh no! I'm rich but I overclock my PC. Hey, loser, buy a better processor.

Oh, btw.. rijp, I think you spend too much time on this. I don't know what kind of work you do, but you're overpaid. I'm lying. I know. Office work, hanging out with all the fat heads in your area. You look at everyone else and think: "They're poor. I'm rich, I'm better." Tell me if I'm wrong.

Go outside, have some fun, stop eating pizzas and playing games all day.

I would never let any of you build MY computer, especially all the wanna-be techies posting comments here.

ahHAHahHAhahHA

Best comment ever ...

I'd build you your dream machine in 15 minutes if you wanted. :P

I haven't broken anything yet either. ;)

Real quick one here:

Why BTO a $500 system? Why BTO *anything* unless you know what you're looking for and have a specific purpose in mind?

I think most of the comments in here revolve around the fact that 90% of the shoppers at walmart wouldn't know a Hard Drive from a CPU from a Case, much less what it would take to "get the job done"....even if it only required $500.

But hey...I'm ignorant....what do *I* know, right?

And what's with the "rich kiddies" crap? Daddy cut you out of the will? Sounds like you have some real issues there, but that's for a therapist, not Betanews.

Go hone your neruosis to perfection elsewhere.

That said....

I do think Wal-Mart is looking to expand their clientele. If they could get the right parts, at the right prices, and perhaps provide an area to test N' tweak, they might have something going for them. They know certain crowds avoid their stores and are attempting to provide a draw to get them to come in. Buy a few parts, grab something to eat, check out the DVDs...who knows?

Can you really blame 'em for trying?

This from a guy that is self proclaiming himself as "xanax" does anyone else see the iron in this?

LOL it took you 15 minutes?

You could build a dream machine faster? Or are you implying that his dream machine is quite easy to assemble? :P

Xanax contains iron? Odd....

no can't blame them for trying, but they didn't think this through.

Where are they going to take the machine for support? CompUSA? Bestbuy? Walmart has no technical support area, or qualified individuals to support it.

Look at CompUSA (no comments about CompUSA), they are setup with a sales floor. They have a tech counter, they have people that help you with questions (maybe they aren't the best answers) and they can give pretty good advice. Best Buy similar, and they have a Geek Squad counter, same thing, you walk around best buy, some dimwit with blue hair shapped like a statue of liberty picking his nose asks if you want help, but least he tries...

Walmart, when was the last time you had ANYONE at Walmart volunteer to help you find something?
I don't ever remember being in a Walmart and their employees asking customers if they need help. They are stocking shelves, digging in their crotch, eating on the job, smoking a fat one in front of the store, or doing some stupid survey! But they aren't helping customerss..

Walmart is a place where you buy stuff you need, CHEAP and FAST. You walk in, you buy your 100 dollars worth of stuff, and bounce.

You roll up on dem dubs, front on the cute cashier with 3 teeth, and fo kids, axe the manager to make change for a 10, because that girl can't count, beat some punk at madden in the video section, go look for new Tool CD's and you jet! That's walmart.

You don't loiter and think, hey how can I waste time looking for a computer or find accessories for my Kia??!! you don't.. Walmart is the place for get in, slide, squat, belch, fart, laugh, make fun of the japs with the weird hairdos, and get the hell out of dodge.

I am implying that you are taking too long. A Walmart dream machine is like building a Barbie Dream house with lincoln logs.. It not rocket science.

maybe it's xanax for women, i hear they need more iron than men.

See: http://www.betanews.com/..._PCs/1146686554#c240945

I agree, a walmart machine won't have much. If you can assemble the above in quicker than 15 min, I'm impressed. For me I have to get everything out first(AS5, etc.), so it takes a bit longer. putting the HSF on is probably the most timeconsuming, since I don't want to mess up on the CPU and later have to take HSF off and reapply anything. I've also never built a water-cooled system, so that would slow me down bigtime.

The second any game or software *requires* a water-cooled system, I'm outta here.

That's gotta be the dumbest fad I've ever seen in my entire life, and the 80's Big Hair thing was pretty bad.

Spring a leak? Buy a new system. Too much pressure? Buy a new system. Too little pressure? Buy a new system.

Sounds like a marketing gimmick to sell more hardware to idiots, if you ask me. (I know...no-one did...)

but suppose you filled it with say nitrogen or something in a gas form? it will still pump and transfer heat, just no leak problems. maybe use freon(kidding i know its toxic)

Yeah! Cuz NOS is *so* cheap and easy to get, right?

How much are they going to pay the poor techs building these cheapo PCs? Minimun wage?

I'll build my own, thank you. ;-)

if you can build your own, do you think they're gonna pay PC assemblers 30$/hour? Think about it.

You're the one choosing the "cheapo" parts in your PC.

Cheapo isn't the same as inexpensive.. We want value, not get ripped off. Walmart wants to try to customize these machines, but if they can't hire the good people (30/hr) then what good tech support do you expect? You want a guy that is working part time to pay bills, and only makes 10 bucks an hour give quality advice on a $2000 investment? Yeah, that will go over like a fart in church.

Cheapo is a new and used Music store...

Geez...where do you peopple *get* your information? ;P

Cheapo is a music store? I thought he was one of the Marx Brothers! Wal*Mart may *SELL* BTO systems but they never said they'd *SUPPORT* them! 8^)

"It is also an effort by the company to increase its profit margins by focusing on high-margin products."

Always Low Prices...? Yeah right. :p

Good point. I can see Grandma doing this, but not the average Joe Computer. Letting Wal-Mart build your computer is about as smart as letting them handle your bank account. NOT!

That is exactly what Walmart is up to... Expect to see Walmart Bank soon...

Well there is an interesting thought. Aren't the wals the richest people in the US (except for Gates, maybe). I'm sure the only reason there isn't a walmart bank is because there isn't enough profit and they don't want to be seen as a "bank" type company, but rather a "we help people save money" type company.

I have always despised the pre-packaged computer, but didn't have the money to assemble one the way I wanted. This will be interesting to see how well it does. I think more and more people are tech savvy enough now to at least be able to choose how much memory they want, what graphics card and what hard drive they want. At least given the limited choices I assume they will get at Walmart.

Lets be honest here shall we. Buying a PC from walmart is something only the poor and stupid do. They are the lowest of the low in terms of quality and performance. They would have to hire serious players to be able to honestly pass themselves off a PC maker. And since they are planing to make the PC's while you shop I believe this to be a bad sign. I trust walmart to have great prices but not on anything that requires tech savy. What they should be doing is trying to take over the market for upgrades and parts. While they sometimes have good prices and PC parts. They don't have many to begin with. CompUSA for example has them crushed in this area. True CompUSA is much larger thus can carry more. But walmart can buy in bulk on specific items and get a great price. They need to do more in this area cause they're PC dept is very small and crappy.
And here's the best reason a PC building dept would not work at walmart. The people who would buy PC's there has no idea what to put in there PC. They are not going to know what they should or should not buy. Leave the pre-build systems for them. Which is another reason why places like Compusa exist. Cause i can walk in and leave with the parts for a $500 system for my daughter or a $3000 killer gaming rig.

To call all Wal-Mart shoppers stupid and poor is absurd and ridiculous. Alot shop there to save money and for the convenience. If a somewhat high to medium range gamer PC was offered at a much reduced price, I bet YOU would might even find yourself buying one. Don't let careless and charlatan statements cloud your judgement.

They are poor and stupid.. Walmart caters to the outlying areas with a need for a large super center. They don't move into big cities where there is established shopping, its too hard to boot the incumbent retailers.. And they reject Walmart from moving in..

This is a crazy idea by Walmart, and it will fail. They are not setup to compete with Dell, HP, or even Gateway.. They won't have the proper support infrastructure, and even if they do, who are they going to hire? 10 dollar an hour teens with no experience? I wouldn't let them touch anyone's machine I know. I won't let geeks on call touch anyones's machine either.. Geek Squad, whatever.

I bet he won't buy one, I wouldn't buy one, this is for those poor scrubs that won't know any better, and they think that somehow a Walmart moniker will make things so much better. There is a problem, service after the sale.

I buy from Walmart, I see the type people that go in there, and they are uneducated, poor, and hapless.. so what does tha make me? Well, there are always exceptions of course, but the majority of Walmart shoppers are just that, stupid and poor. That is true.

People with money shop elsewhere, many people I work with, high execs they wouldnt be caught dead in a Walmart. Me, I consider Walmart the best convenient store in the city. I shop because its convenient. If a Target or Costco, or a mall were closer, I would shop there..

We are all here because most of us are semi-technical. Many people like PC_Tool are super qualified, and I know they wouldn't even help a person carry a build to order machine from Walmart out the car, let alone buy one..

We like to build our own, so yes. His statements are accurate.

Yes, I would have to agree..

haHAH to say PC_TOOL is super qualified sounds more like you're kissing azz ... :P
many people here come to have fun....
many people here HAVE the skills ...
but many people dont come here to prove what they know
and many people DONT have to show possesed knowledge if is not required ....

_______ btw _________

anybody here attending DefCon 14 ??? :P

Dallas isn't a big city? You can't drive for ten minutes in any direction out here before running into a Walmart. Many of them are upscale. In fact, you see the cheapist prices in the upscale area Walmarts because, unlike in the rural areas, their customers can afford to drive somewhere else to get a better deal.

"And here's the best reason a PC building dept would not work at walmart. The people who would buy PC's there has no idea what to put in there PC. They are not going to know what they should or should not buy......Which is another reason why places like Compusa exist."

You just lost all credibility.

"and I know they wouldn't even help a person carry a build to order machine from Walmart out the car, "

Of course not... My days of working at places such as that ended *long* ago.

But I really *do* have to stop going there.... Can't seem to get out of that place for under
$100. ;P

"They don't move into big cities where there is established shopping"

You obviously haven't lived in many major cities.

Walmart is everywhere, unfortunately.

A director at my local Walmart asked me a couple of weeks ago what she could do to get my business back. I told her that there wasn't ANYTHING she could do. This was during an investigation into why I won't shop there any longer (she was reviewing camera detail and fixing to terminate a greeter).

I was at Interop yesterday. I couldn't go today since my wife got food poisoning. :(

What i said was if you are shopping for a pc at walmart you don't really care much about what you end up with. You are just looking at the price, which is low low budget. It's crap and you all know it. People who buy PC's from walmart are looking to save money not get quality. People who have money to buy quality wouldn't want to buy a PC there. Now I am not saying everyone who shops at walmart is poor or stupid. Cause I shop there. But not for PC's. Places like Compusa allow you to buy whatever part you could ever want. Be it a cheap one or insane expensive one. And if walmart offered a Alienware Gaming PC i would hesitate to buy it. Why, cause it might be made with lesser quality parts or have a limited warrenty just to get it in the door. And we all know that when it comes to qualified staff, walmart isn't number one. What happens when you need answers. Walmart isn't gonna have them. They will refer you to some phone number and you will be stuck in automated hell. What i said is true. You may not like it, but it's true. I buy clothing for my kids, milk, diapers and whatever cause it's the same as anywhere else and is cheaper. This can not be said for any of there Home electronics stuff. Yeah you will get a cheap TV. But no warrenty. When i buy a TV, i wanna have a garrenty, not some mail back to manufactor at your own cost.

i am sooooo agreeing with big sexy, he's my best friend and has been for the last 16 years. He is a computer genius, and when I bought my first laptop last month I turned to him, because even though I am not stupid or poor I am computer illitarate but wouldn't mind saving money. However I ended up at best buy buying a great laptop for $800 with all the bells and whistles that walmart could not offer.

There isn't a single one in Minneapolis-St. Paul, but they have spread across the suburbs like the pox.

I guess it depends on the locale, but in MN, they stay out of the cities and stick to the burbs. (or stick it to the burbs, as the case may be)

Dude I bet I have lived in more larger cities than you have, bucko. Let me see, I have lived in Vegas (no walmarts there), Los Angeles (yeah those people vetoed several attempts by Walmar to move in), Phoenix, there are a couple there, but again rural areas, Tampa (not real big, but big enough - again, out of the way places, not middle of town) and currently I live in Atlanta, I live in the burbs, and that's where the Walmart is.

Like I said, if you had bothered to read, its convenient to where I live. If I lived closer to downtown, main part of Atlanta, I would be going to the mall or retail shopping centers not Walmart.

LOL. That's not bad.. Walmart is one stop shopping... at least super walmart.

Are you trying to kill her?

*haHAH to say PC_TOOL is super qualified sounds more like you're kissing azz ... :P*

Well it is self evident.. He is very knowledgeable.. not kissing azz, I never do that..

I am point out the people that have good points, based upon fact, and they can converse on many topics.. I didn't say we was the best I have ever seen, but he is at the top of this BetaNews class.. You think someone else is more or equal in qualification than him?

Dude, you are so talking out of your ass. I went to a Wal-Mart in LA a few years ago. I know for a fact there are still many there...check the phone book.

And no Wal-Marts in Vegas? Are you f-ing kidding?! Theres a few SUPERCENTERS there.

Phoenix. Several Wal-Marts. Tucson. Several Wal-Marts.

And to whoever said there's no Wal-Marts in the twin cities area? There's plenty. There's more there than Tucson and Phoenix combined. And these aren't in the middle of nowhere. Yes, I have lived in all the above places (except Phoenix, I've only visited there a few times, and went to WAL-MART to screw around in the toy section because I was bored).

So, if you lived in Tampa you would know that there are two Walmarts on Dale Mabry alone.

"They don't move into big cities where there is established shopping"

"Like I said, if you had bothered to read, its convenient to where I live"

So which is it then?

Just piling sh*t on top of more sh*t like always I see.

There's two in equal distance form my house. The "Super" variety.

bas****s. ;)

yeah one is near 275 (oh that's a good area - rolling eyes) and the other is near Bears.. another fine upstanding area..

New Tampa, that's nice, but its way out there, Brandon (where people WANT to live) that Walmart sucks. So if you live near 22nd and Fowler or USF, you have to drive to ghetto Walmart .. yeah, if you want to be robbed at gunpoint.. That's another upstanding area.

Town and Country.. where the nice mall is, where is Walmart..

Piling s*** on top of s*** is what your mama does feeding your dumb a** in the box, bia***.

*And no Wal-Marts in Vegas? Are you f-ing kidding?! Theres a few SUPERCENTERS there.*

convenient to the strip? Yeah that's what I thought, STFU.

No one wants to live in Brandon anymore, they are moving towards Carrolwood and Land-O-Lakes because Brandon is so over-populated. You are changing the story yet again, you said they weren't in citys when they are.

Town and Country is not all that anymore either. The point wasn't whether it was safe or not, you said that Walmart wasn't in the city when it is.

Spreading more sh*t again.

BTW, you haven't been to Tampa in the last 10 years if you didn't know that Bearss is not the bad side of town (uhh it never has been actually)

Then again it's been over 3 years since I left Carollwood so I wouldn't really know either.

I don't know bigsexy but I completely agree with him. He is correct on all counts. Deal with it!

No I didn't I said it wasn't in the main areas of the city, its in rural parts..

And my point was that they are targeting rural, and smaller towns, not big cities, because many of them dont' WANT Walmart in the first place.

"Los Angeles (yeah those people vetoed several attempts by Walmar to move in)"

Just a few stores in a 20 mile radius.

We found 20 stores near 91786:
1. Upland, CA 91786
2. Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91739
3. Pomona, CA 91766
4. Chino, CA 91710
5. Glendora, CA 91740
6. Fontana, CA 92335
7. Covina, CA 91722
8. Riverside, CA 92503
9. Rialto, CA 92376
10. Corona, CA 92879
11. City Of Industry, CA 91745
12. Baldwin Park, CA 91706
13. Brea, CA 92821
14. Duarte, CA 91010
15. Corona, CA 92881
16. San Bernardino (N), CA 92407
17. Colton, CA 92324
18. Orange, CA 92865
19. La Habra, CA 90631
20. Anaheim, CA 92801

I dont know Florida, but here are a couple located within 20 miles of Tampa

We found 20 stores near Tampa, FL :
1. Tampa, FL 33607
2. Tampa, FL 33614
3. Tampa, FL 33604
4. Brandon (West), FL 33511
5. Tampa, FL 33634
6. Tampa, FL 33612
7. Gibsonton, FL 33534
8. Tampa (Elliott), FL 33615
9. Tampa, FL 33625
10. Seffner, FL 33584
11. Tampa, FL 33618
12. Brandon, FL 33511
13. Brandon, FL 33511
14. Oldsmar, FL 34677
15. Tampa, FL 33647
16. Pinellas Park, FL 33781
17. Land O'Lakes, FL 34639
18. Clearwater, FL 33765
19. Ruskin, FL 33573
20. Palm Harbor, FL 34684

We will call you Yellow Pages.

Clear Water is 30 some miles, Ruskin is 20 miles, the first 3 we talked about, Brandon is 15 miles, Seffner, oldsmar, Pinellas Park (its south of Clearwater), Palm Harbor.. those are *NOT* convenient..

I can do a search on yellow pages as well, but that doesnt mean they are in good areas or convenient to get to...

Some of those are around compton, does Rodney King ring a bell?

275 and Dale Mabry is absolutely not rural, infact as you come to hillsborough on dale mabry (just before the Walmart) you pass the Welcome to Tampa (city limits) sign.

I don't want Walmart anywhere, but they are EVERYWHERE.

Brandon is 1,000 times different than it was just 12 years ago. The cow pastures I remember as a kid are now shopping malls and miles of stores.

Falkner is now a major roadway and causeway (lumsden) has more apartments & shopping centers than trees.

(Fortunately I don't live there either heh)

nah some good techs at compusa will help you with parts and do know what they are talking about, but the other ones just want to sell you anything.

If I was trying to do that, I would show her your posts. :p No, she had ate some spaghetti and it seems the sauce was bad (she had made it). And considering how important Interop was to me, I sure wouldn't attempt to poison my wife in an attempt to have an excuse not to go. Not only that, she's important to me.

Oh no.. there goes the neighborhood..

More opportunity for Wal-Mart to exploit sweatshop labor! Yay!

Did you know that MS Word has Wal-Mart in it’s dictionary? Type in “Walmart”, and it will come up with an error and correct the word to Wal-Mart… :P

I wonder what happens if you mispell Google? ;-)

The way I read it you buy the parts and take it home and put it togeather yourself.

"The way I read it you buy the parts and take it home and put it togeather yourself."

LOL - just like their furniture, which means there will be some parts missing too!

CompUSA is no authority on computing, sorry to have to tell you that.

One more thing, it is very true a Dual Core processor is not required to play games, but have you ever wanted to burn a DVD while you play, say, Battlefield 2? A DC will allow you to! I have done so, and without a hitch!

You get Yahoo!

*CompUSA is no authority on computing, sorry to have to tell you that.*

Really? I would put CompUSA above any other retailer.. even Bestbuy, Microcenter.. what else is better? CompUSA is about as high quality (local) you can get, and still find all the top brand parts you need...

Everyone at every CompUSA I have ever spoken to or known is a complete moron. I have found more knowledgeable people at Best Buy, and they are all idiots as well. Well, most are idiots. I know a couple good guys working at Geek Squad.

I had a guy there (CompUSA) tell me once that I only needed a 250W PSU to run my 3GHz P4 (o/c) with 3 CD/DVD burners, 4 hard drives, an assload of blinking lights, cold-cathode tubes, dual-head geforce 6800 ultra (o/c), dual-head geforce 5200, pinnacle video capture card, avertv studio, many random accessories via IEEE1394, USB, etc. Yea, um...no.

Just personal opinion here, but I far prefer Microcenter to the CompUSA out here. Of course, it could just be due the complete f'ing morons at the CompUSA here.

And then what.. who is going to help you set it up? you going to call 800walmart? you still need technical help.

You buy a computer, it doesn't end there.

Word 97 with SR-1 (NOT SR-2b) had an interesting easter egg...try typing "I think Clinton should resign", and check the Thesauras...

Hint - real tech's or engineer's do not have to ask retailers questions about what they need. If you need information on something, we go to www.google.com.

If you want parts, ever hear of Newegg, Tigerdirect, Outpost, PC Club, or other online outlets?

So of us even buy direct from the manufacturer, and their tech support is full of morons too!

I think you are all monkeyfaces

We are comparing retailers to retailers, not online vs local. Try to stay up with the convo, ok dude?

Yes, I am well aware of all those online places and they all suck, except for New Egg, and you forget Ebay..

The problem with not asking quesions, and doing things on your own, is that you don't get corrective feedback, that's the problem with half the posts in this thread as it is.. bad info, retailers aren't ALL bad, because they have to learn (like you did) someplace.

we weren't born with this knowledge, we gained it from trial and error, school or whatever, but we didn't come out of the womb asking for a bottle, a pacifier, and windows resource kit.

Balding monkeyfaces, to be exact.

;)

I prefer over-evolved ape, though.

that has a nice ring to it.

You do have some points rijp, and you were the one who started comparing retailers. I am simply saying that if you trust what the local retailer tells you to do, you are going to get burned or frustrated. If you really want to get knowledge from a retailer (in a comparison of retailers) then stay away from the $8-$10 an hour techs and go to a small business owner in this industry (the ones who cannot afford to not have knowledge). If people were to get second opinions, then they would not have as many problems (if the information doesn't match between two, then get a 3rd, 4th......)until you can find two that are the same and doesn't cost alot.

Now, your point of learning is one that I agree with, somewhat. No we did not come from the womb knowing this stuff, however, we did not stop learning in the 90's either.

EBay is not a forum that I would buy new equipment from. Since 1994, the only thing I would buy from CompUSA or BestBuy would be hard drives, optical drives or RAM (the things I would be able to return if they were DOA). I did not say all retailers were bad, I am just saying that the chance of having a sales person who (not only) knows what they are talking about, but is not trying to over-sell the customer, is pretty slim. So no, I would not recommend advice from a large retailer in any comparison.

I do like Dell as a retailer, however, I perfer to have a more customized box myself, so I do not shop there, but I do recommend them for non-technical people.

Do you have any facts to support that most online merchants "suck"? How and why do they suck? Because they charge shipping and it takes a few days?

The fact is, people are afraid to "play" with their computers, in fear that they will mess it up. Now days, most people have at least two (a new one and an old one) so I recommend they take the older one apart and put it back together (use online search and books if you get stuck) then rebuild the OS. Thats how you learn and it builds confidence.

Once they learn how to search for knowledge, then they will know that the kids at the computer store really do not know that much about computers. Again, this is not implying that everyone is of little knowledge, but most are. Next time you talk to one of these techie's, ask them where they get their knowledge, and please post some of their answers.

LOL - you couldnt even start this on 250W, you'd need alot of dongles, and I dont think 250W PS would even have the 12V connector needed by the processor.