Official news coming soon! Two more hours!

http://www.engadget.com/...-dvd-tomorrow-stop-sale/

Toshiba expected to announce death of HD DVD tomorrow, stop sales by March

Posted Feb 18th 2008 2:01PM by Ryan Block
Filed under: HDTV, Home Entertainment
Despite Red's inability to make any real public statement, Japanese publication Nikkei has it that Toshiba president Atsutoshi Nishida will be announcing the final discontinuation of HD DVD tomorrow, as well as halted sales of hardware and media by March (as in days from now). Apparently Toshiba will pull its units from retail shelves, but has no intention to give burned early adopters any refunds (no kidding?); it sounds like the ceasefire will include the bare PC drives as well, so those hoping to keep using HD DVD as a personal data storage medium probably won't have much luck. Apparently the announcement will come alongside Toshiba's plans to build new semiconductor fabs, which we're sure they'll try to spin as an advancement that far overshadows the hill of beans (read: hundreds of millions) they've lost in the format war.

Circuit City is having a nice fire sale for HD-DVD.

It's only nice, if you were foolish enough to end up with a HD DVD player, and wants to build up your collection before obsolescence.

For people like me, who made the correct decision, circuit city and best buy have drastically dropped the price of most of their blu-ray movies.
$20.00 for a movie is not that bad.

They also have some great DVD's for $5.00. The Godfather 1 and 2 for $5.00 each at Best Buy.

Dropped most to $20 that is not correct. They dropped a hand fun to that price. There are hundreds of blu ray disk yet they dropped a dozen. Don't get me wrong it is a good start but more is needed.

Nothing more is needed. HD DVD is dead.

You are right the average consumer will buy movies for $35. That goes for both the formats one of which is dead. If you think that bluray will become mainstream with movies at $30 and $35 you are smoking something. DVD remains popular to this day since movies can be purchased at $4. Look at this weeks Bestbuy add, tons of very good movies for $4. But then again HD DVD is dead so the consumer will pay what ever bluray movies cost since they won the war. That is what you are saying and frankly is a bunch of garbage. BB did have some $15 and $20 movies but more need prices like that. Maybe you don't understand that part.

With DVD at $5 for some movies, and netflix + broadband HD at $3.99-$4.99 for HD rentals much more is needed.

No regular consumer is going to buy $35 videos when the "good enough" edition is less than 1/2 that.

Thanks.

SGD, you are right about the price. The PS3 does a great job of upconverting. Transformers on DVD still looks good.

I'm on my way to Best Buy right now to buy one $20.00 Blu-Ray (Cars) and the two Godfather movies at $5.00 each. I have no problems buying Blu-ray versions of movies that I really want to have.

I agree with you that Mainstream will not pay $30 for a movie.

Netfix should stream to the PS3 and Xbox soon. They are trying to make that happen.
http://tech.blorge.com/S...ing-to-ps3-and-xbox-360/

Both the PS3 and XBox need to update their browser to play videos from NBC's Hula and even ABC's web site.

I love my 12 GB connection with my gigabyte ethernet connection and my new router and my cat6e wiring in my house.
I only wish I could watch Hula videos through the PS3 browser, even if it doesn't look 100% perfect. It is still good enough for me, since it is free and I have a beta membership.

Blu Ray looks great on my 52 inch Sony XBR4, so does up-converted DVD's running on my PS3. That is why I am glad that prices on DVD are so low, and that Netflix is not that expensive for what they offer.

Foolish, yes, foolish. People should have done more research before buying their stupid HD DVD players. I do not feel sorry for the fools who bought one at wal mart for Christmas. Those were people who have never visited a web site like this and had no clue what they were doing.

*rub my hands together* I am going to pick up boat load of movies for cheap. I hate to see the format go, before the price of Blu-ray got pulled down under the $200.00 mark. Oh well, such is life.

Let me sing something cuz I'm in the mood.

"How do I say goodbye to what we had?
The good times that made us laugh
Outweigh the bad.

I thought we'd get to see forever
But forever's gone away
It's so hard to say goodbye to MY HD!"

Still no official statement from Toshiba Japan (16:10 Local time)... it appears someone must have leaked the good news to Reuters/NHK....

Latest Reuters update:

http://www.reuters.com/a...T34593320080218?sp=true

242 comments - not bad for a "niche Product" - record for BetaNews?

242 posts for a article titled Wal-mart won't stock hd dvd movies?
I'd say this thread has been turned into a pile of childish insults and producing hardly anything worth while reading.
I've heard of sore loosers but sore winners? Get a grip people its not like the result dictated your life...

"242 posts for a article titled Wal-mart won't stock hd dvd movies?
I'd say this thread has been turned into a pile of childish insults and producing hardly anything worth while reading."

And you being a major contributor.... Ahhh the hypocrisy...

Pretty big coming from a resident internet troll.
Sorry but f for fail. You only proved my point

Troll? Ahhh the hypocrisy is so thick you can even bludgeon it with your cursed (-3 to hit) club. You're the only one here who shows up late in the thread randomly adding your 2 cents (make that half a cent) worth of drivel to each user. Sorry but you get a big S for SORE loser.

"You're the only one here who shows up late in the thread randomly adding your 2 cents (make that half a cent) worth of drivel to each user"
Lol and you want to try and claim that hypocrisy title on me? Nice try
And I think you know what i mean by troll. You've done your fair share of hit and run on forums in the past.

Would you like me to design you a nice and easy to read spreadsheet containing my comments in this thread and their context? Then all you have to do is mark each one with a nice red conditional format cell to show us the insults pouring out of my mouth.
Once again proving my post. Why do you even boffer?

Dungeons and Dragons? What a dork.

If blu-ray is the winner, do the terrorists win???

Even Al Jazeera is reporting on this topic.

http://english.aljazeera...3-9004-917AA95BAA87.htm

Why is that news? Al Jazeera is a news company, like CNN, BBC, ITV, etc. so of course they'll report on this.

http://ap.google.com/art...sNuyFH1SbFNkOgD8USGOQO0

Toshiba will have a board meeting on Tuesday. It is already Monday in Japan. That meeting should take place about 22 hours from now.

Chia-homer should be 100% correct.

There are stories that Circuit City has the SKU# for Transformers in the Blu-Ray format.

I fought in the format war. I was on the winning side. Does that make me part of the evil federation? I can hardly wait to see some brown coats in Blu-Ray....

I've seen that on most of the Paramount DVDs that I have purchased recently, such as Next. At the end of the Transformers preview, it shows availability for Blu-ray and HD DVD.

CHIA-HOMER's Format war predictions for the week of 2/18.

Monday or Tuesday: Toshiba confirms it will stop hddvd production.

Thursday or Friday: Paramount and or Universal announces it will begin making Blu-ray.

This is going to be the second best week ever!

hardly your predictions now is it :) Half the internets is saying the same thing

Wow you read the news then all in a sudden it is your predictions talk about reaching. Sorry but your predictions have been all over the net long before you claimed them as your own.

Who said they were his own?

Hater.

Still not official in Japan. But Toshiba's stock has gone up as investors cheered the death of HD DVD.

so who was responsible for deleting my response to Hollywood?

I have also had two comments deleted.

this happens to me too. funny that only comments that don't agree with the ms propaganda machine get deleted. veeerrryyyy interesting.

Tried less insults and more constructive commenting?
Might work a treat in your case. This isnt some free for all kids forum

Nate Mook censors anything he disagrees with.

I thought the US had freedom of speech...

US: Yes
Privately-owned web sites: No (constitutionally, anyway)

damn i didn't even say anything bad....just said that they brought the gloating on themselves by telling us for months that blu ray was dead and hd-dvd was getting Warner at CES and yadda yadda...

poor guys...

BSF,

Do you have a link to your story?

Why are you still posting comments on this board?

HD-DVD is DEAD!!!

Search the internet! It has been dead since Friday! It is now Monday in some parts of the world, and HD-DVD is still dead!

Some of you HD-DVD freaks are posting stories from three months ago! Or from a year ago!!!

Things change quickly.

Some of you tards even think that these stories are a hoax. How funny. Friggin tards.

Go back to playing your Wii with your grandmother.

It's officially dead.
Toshiba just announced in Japan that they will stop HD-DVD production in one of the biggest production plant in Japan.

Do you have a link to your story?

http://www.reuters.com/a...s/idUSL1627196120080216

from someone below.

youre welcome

http://www.reuters.com/a...s/idUSL1627196120080216

That is not an official announcement. Again, the Toshiba board will not meet until Tuesday, about 22 hours from now.

Isn't it funny how the HD-DVD official web site has not updated their news since 12/13/07? While the Blu-Ray official site updates every few days?

How sad...

I can't wait for HD-DVD to be oficially dead so BetaNews will stop posting news about it. If you look closely, the only sotries with more than 5 comments have Blu Ray or HD-DVD in the title.

Even the XBOX360 and PS3 stories don't get very many comments compared to this dead format war.

Lastly I would like to point out people like Benjamin / Dave who's format won and they still continue to post childish idiotic comments rubbing it everyones face who is upset over HD-DVD going south.

It's been months and this drooling loser with nothing better to do makes his rounds on about 20 different forums posting the same exact thing, trying to get all of the HD-DVD fans to argue with him and start a huge fight.

You can't even be gracious in victory as we all know this is the central preoccupation of your dull and boring life. Let me give you some perspective. I have about 80+ HD-DVD movies valued at about $2000 dollars and three total players, 2 of which I already gave away (the XA1 and 360 add-on which never got used).

I have spent more money that your entire "home theater" system cost (according to that sad picture you posted months back) and I couldn't care less. Do you know why? Because it's only money and I have way more important things to do right now.

It's been a month since Warner went BD and you are still at it with name calling and rubbing it in everyones faces. Please answer my question and tell us all what is wrong with you?

Are you so desperate to be a part of something to feel important that you grasp at any straw and keep blathering about it for years? You were posting about BD and the PS3 in mid 2006 all over the place.

It's now 2008 and every day, you have the same routine of posting garbage on dozens of websites. This must take hours and hours to accomplish.

You are one strange, bored little insignificant nothing.

"I have about 80+ HD-DVD movies valued at about $2000 dollars and three total players, 2 of which I already gave away (the XA1 and 360 add-on which never got used)... Because it's only money and I have way more important things to do right now.
if only all the hd-dvd customers thought the same way as you maybe you wouldn't have 2gs in useless technology. next time donate it to charity if its so meaningless to you.

hollywood...here is the problem.....

you, and Hokus, and whoever else did spent months and months ripping into BD owners about how s***ty the format was...and how it was dead....and the PS3 was dead and how great it was going to be when Warner went red at CES and the PS3 failed an yadda yadda....

and now its 2008 and HD-DVD is as close to dead as it gets, and the PS3 outsold the 360 worldwide for the year....

now im not saying it's right but some of you guys brought it on yourselves....

Someone got out of bed the wrong side this morning.

Has it ever occured to you that you are wrong, and these are all (or at least mostly) different people?

I know you are convinced I am Dave Peterson, but I am not. It's another one of your miles off guesses, just like the Warner going HD DVD at CES08, and Walmart buying cheap Chinese HD DVD players.

"Has it ever occured to you that you are wrong, and these are all (or at least mostly) different people?"
I used to think Holly was a bit crazy in that regard but it became quite clear over a period of time we were dealing with the same idiot over and over.

You may not like what he says but that person did sink to low levels during this debate.

"you, and Hokus, and whoever else did spent months and months ripping into BD owners about how s***ty the format was...and how it was dead....and the PS3 was dead and how great it was going to be when Warner went red at CES and the PS3 failed an yadda yadda.... "

In a stright fight HD DVD would have won.
Warner stabbed it in the back and most of the big retailers have had various Sony staff in 'educating' their sales staff for many months.

The market was rigged.

I'm just glad Blu-ray will dop nothing now but sell to PS3 fans.

It's never taking over from DVD.

Thank f*ck for that.

blah blah blah, payoffs, bribes, backstab, blah blah blah.

stop being so bitter and just let it go. i know it sucks to be you because the anti-christ in your mind [sony] has gone and kicked the living sh!t out of hddvd. but live with it.

oh, and just as a warning, now that bluray has won, the PS3 sales are going to SKYROCKET!

Good post. Someone with intelligence here.

Funny how you say to let it go yet you continue to post flame bait. You egg stuff on then complain about the responses that you get.

ah that's bs HD-DVD will win, just wait and see, Toshiba has a trick up their sleeve i bet

How the market was rigged.

It's amazing they even got 1 million+ HD DVD players sold - and it makes the poor Blu-ray numbers look even more sad.

A new J.D. Power and Associates mystery shopper study has found that retail salespeople across the country are strongly recommending Blu-ray Disc players over HD DVD to their customers.

Chris Denove, J.D. Power and Associates VP, said that less than 1-in-10 retail salespeople recommended HD DVD to survey takers posing as shoppers for the syndicated, independent field study.

The HD disc study was part of the Television Retail Insights report, which is jointly produced by J.D. Power and Associates and Market Force Information. Over the course of the year it will be sending over 5,000 mystery shoppers into 30 different retail chains on a regular basis to shop for HDTVs and HDTV peripherals and components.

Also included in the study will be 2,000 to 3,000 telephone shops, and about 1,000 facility audits of what retailers are stocking and displaying to evaluate which brands and categories are getting preferential treatment.

The current study covered electronics salespeople in over 200 storefronts in January. Mystery shoppers posed as people who had just purchased an HDTV and were looking for a nameless dedicated HD disc player.

The survey found 25 percent of all salespeople chose not to recommend one platform over the other. But of those who did, 89 percent recommended Blu-ray, and most of them “very strongly recommended Blu-ray, to the point that a typical customer would have had to think long and hard before buying HD DVD in the face of what salespeople are telling them about the two platforms,” Denove said.

“Best Buy just issued a press release saying it’s going to recommend Blu-ray. But, our data shows that they’ve been recommending Blu-ray all along, in fact, more so than the national average,” Denove told TWICE. “In fact, in January, we didn’t come across a single Best Buy salesperson recommending HD DVD.”

Denove said that typically CE retail sales people were quick to point out to their customers that there was a technology war similar to what occurred back when VHS battled Beta.

“Without even being asked about the battle for DVD supremacy, half the salespeople told our shoppers that there was a battle going on and Blu-ray either was already the winner (or would become the dominant player in the end),” he said.

“About a third of all salespeople said our shoppers should choose Blu-ray because of the strength of the companies behind Blu-ray,” Denove said.

Only one retailer – Rex – had salespeople that were split approximately 50/50 in steering shoppers toward Blu-ray and HD DVD to customers, Denove said.

The study did not bring up gaming consoles with HD DVD or Blu-ray playback ability, but gaming devices were factored into the study if suggested as a consideration by the salesperson.

Denove said that some retail chains – Best Buy in particular – had salespeople that seemed to be more focused on cross selling, where they were more likely to tie in the TV elements of the disc formats with computers or gaming.

In light of recent developments with Warner Bros. endorsing Blu-ray exclusively, “we had expected that salespeople would focus on the title wars in making their recommendation,” Denove said. “Many did, just not quite as focused on titles as we expected. Overall, a little more than a third talked about Blu-ray either having more titles now, or would end up having more titles in the future.”

According to the study, the only advantage of HD DVD mentioned by more than a few salespeople was price.

“Out of nearly 200 mystery shopping experiences, not one salesperson suggested that HD DVD would become the dominant format,” Denove said.

Denove said the survey indicated that the sales push toward Blu-ray “was not related to technical features, instead the focus of most pitches were on the following: 1) there is a format war going on and most salespeople felt that Blu-ray had already won the war or would be the eventual winner of the war; 2) the companies backing Blu-ray are the stronger players, with Sony mentioned most prominently; 3) Blu-ray had the strongest studio support and title selection.

The study concluded that if a change in direction is possible at this stage, the companies supporting HD DVD must do one of the following: either do something to create demand from the consumer up front, so that the consumer is going into the store looking specifically for HD DVD, or do something to sway the overwhelming recommendations of sales people, such as introduce or boost spiff programs or some similar incentive, Denove said.

As for Toshiba’s recent promotional price cuts on HD DVD players, Denove said: salespeople are pushing so heavily in the favor of Blu-ray that only a small percentage of them are even talking about the price advantage of HD DVD, and right now that’s the only thing they seem to want to rally around.”

Even dual-format players failed to leave significant measurements, Denove said.

“Given that our shoppers were trying to decide between Blu-ray and HD DVD, we were surprised that only 7 percent of all salespeople even offered up the option of a combo player so that our shoppers didn’t risk choosing the wrong format. This likely reflects the fact that salespeople seem fairly confident that Blu-ray will win out in the end.”

Denove said the trend suggests that "combo players need to create demand upstream in the decision process to get traction, because salespeople sure aren’t doing anything to drive demand out on the showroom floor."

By brand, salespeople focused almost exclusively on Sony for Blu-ray (Sharp and Samsung came in a distant second and third, respectively), J.D. Power & Associates said. Not surprisingly, of those recommending HD DVD, Toshiba was almost always the recommended brand, said Denove.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6532944.html

come on Hokus! things can't be that bad in your little world....its over man...just embrace the new format and enjoy HD content... you sound like a child now....

"It's amazing they even got 1 million+ HD DVD players sold"

Compared to 11 million Blu-ray players sold, 1 million is pathetic, many of them have already been returned already...

Well, for as much homework as those who wrote this article seemed to have done, you would have thought that they would have at least made some mention of how Sony and others in the Blu-ray camp intentionally defrauded and mislead ALL of their "early adopter" buyers of Blu-ray stand alone players by not even MENTIONING the fact that every single non-PS3 Blu-ray player sold couldn't be upgraded to any future BP Profile versions beyond v1.0.

I wonder when they are going to bring that little tid bit up? Hmmm....must be when the class action law suits that are in the works now against companies like Sony actually hit the courts.

Blatent fraud and intentional customer deception along with obviously misleading marketing materials always makes for really juicy law suits good headlines.

Stay tuned. Much for fun and excitement to come here soon I'm sure.

Actually that's down to the player manufacturers, not the Blu-ray consortium, the manufaturers knew the score from the beginning. And a minority can be upgraded, if you actually care to do your research.

im surprised, but im hearing serious rumors of Toshiba preparing to announce that they are ceasing further production of HD-DVD hardware within days...

we shall see...im not sure i buy it, but come monday or tuesday of this week we should have some idea...

Another site is using the link (from the Japanese news site) saying that it's already a done deal.

It's a shame, really. I honestly enjoyed to format, and wanted to see it take off. Such is life...

Ah well...at least we'll get some really good deals on the equipment and discs.

well Actually NHK (The Japanese National Television Company) today in News was saying that Toshiba announced they're ceasing production in one of the biggest HD-DVD plants, and they're estimating that the net loss of HD-DVD to be around 500million USD

However, Toshiba commented that HD-DVD is not over yet, just awhile ago.
Despite whatever's on Media.

You know you could just post the link like everyone else around the world has :)

I've been posting links but people's been complaining that they're in Japanese.

Where the hell am I gonna find English links?

i wonder why this has not been reportd here? i think maybe so to not upset everyone.

its ok hddvd peopl [pats head], its ok. the sun will shine for you again. go buy a ps3 and it will all be better now.

or everyone could go buy obsolete samsung players and they will all get rich in class action lawsuits

I could have sworn you said you refused to post here again...

Ahh, give him a break... he's "new" here. :)

??? whats is yous talksings abouts. are you talking about the fact that hddvd lost?

oh yea youre right it did. Good point.

i had but nate begged me to come back because you people were boring.

Because BetaNews hardly ever posts anything on the weekends.

"??? whats is yous talksings abouts"

What the hell??

movie reference. it may be a bit too smart for you. thats ok. just nod your head and pretend you understand... thats a good lad.

"??? whats is yous talksings abouts"

Yes clearly that is too smart for me...

Maybe at some point you can write a post without insulting someone. You sound like you about 12.

In response to another post of yours tomorrow will be just like yesterday, meaning the sun will come up and it will be a new day.

Time to laugh at all the idiots who wasted their money on the inferior HD DVD format, just to spite Sony.

yea all the dolts out there should have purchased a samsung player that would quickly become obsolete

Ouch! lol

while i do enjoy that it seems i piked the winning format from the get go...

heck...i might STILL jump on a Toshiba XA2 if prices hit rock bottom any time soon....ill buy up all the Universal and Paramount HD-DVD's i can for next to nothing and enjoy them....

That's what I did, $99 + 5 free HD-DVDs = "free up-converter" with the movies I was probably going to buy anyway.

Playing HD was a benefit, but never a requirement.

Toshiba to exit HD DVD, end format war-NHK. HD DVD The Look And Sound Of Obsolete.

http://www.reuters.com/a...s/idUSL1627196120080216

Can someone tell us when these cheap chinese HD DVD players than Hollywood and Hokuspokus promised us, will arrive?

WOW really that hasn't been posted here now how many times! Everyone has seen that so no reason to keep posting. But then again that is always your style.

Please show us all the Reuters link..

Or this just more of your nonsense.

This story has been posted.

blu=niche

HD DVD=dead

Both= Who cares!

bingo

SGD=Bitter

get paid for each letter of that post chia ?

Not even close I could careless as I have stated countless times before. You and all the others seem to forget what I have said in the past. Let me remind the idiots. I have both formats and understand that sooner or later one is going to fail. That is what happens when you get in early. So am I bitter not even close. Do I care, not at all. Goog try though idiot.

for someone who could careless, you sure do post a lot of "bloray" crap on here.

what are you bipolar? did you forget your meds?

Wow yet an other insult. I see how this works its ok for people to say HD DUD but its not ok to say bloray. I see no double standard there. Whatever..

And yes I could careless.

O this thread is hilarious!

Keep the insults coming!

On second thoughts, lets not.

Fantastic news!

******TOSHIBA JAPAN CEASES HDDVD PRODUCTION*****
The "war" is officially over in Japan.

This was the first story on the 7PM daily news program on NHK News today Feb 16th.

Web site link:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/ne...16/d20080216000104.html

Video Link:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/ne...v20080216000104_mh.html

Very poor translation using Babelfish:
(but you get the picture)

? SONY and the Matsus***a Electric Co. and Hitachi etc. implement centering on the next generation DVD who long haul can record hi-vision image of high picture quality, the "blue ray disk" and, the leadership dispute whose two systems of ? Toshiba and Microsoft etc. "HDDVD" are extreme was unfolded. But, offensive posture is strengthened e.g., the result of sale competition of the re-gray fabric and the video recording machine which materialize from the latter half of last year, in the Japanese country the blue ray camp grasps the share of 90% or more. In addition, thing to die even with supply of the software of the movie and the like, after entering, that major movie company "Warner ?????" of Hollywood unifies to the blue ray, the HDDVD camp had let stand in inferiority e.g., it announces. According to the authorized personnel, receiving such circumstance, directs "HDDVD" "Toshiba" presently, extensively to stop the production of the equipment which is being advanced at the factory inside Aomori prefecture, the policy of withdrawing from business was set. As for sale of the equipment with the shop front we assume that for the time being it continues, but with the policy also new development cancelling, the Toshiba loss which accompanies the withdrawal of business is estimated those which rise to several 10000000000 Yen. Because of this, it goes round the standard of at one time video, like "VHS beta war" the standard dispute of the next generation DVD whom the manufacturer unfolds became the prospect that it is standardized in fact by the blue ray.

it's always fantastic to see a company win a niche market :)

If Blu-ray is niche, what is HD DVD?

I find it laughable how people get when faced with defeat.

I concur.

You're joking right? Funny stuff. Niche markets don't make the top story of the evening news.... then again this is Japan so maybe where you live things are a little different. Well, at least you have internet access... good for you.

also niche.

Thanks.

Both have a tiny insignificant market share so that makes it niche.

Yeah, iPODs had a tiny insignificant market a few years ago too.

Some products make and some don't. You make it sound like every product is will be a hit. Frankly Apple did great with marketing to make that lame MP3 player to be recognized standard that it is.

"faced with defeat" not me as i have neither einstein

i've seen 1 ipod in my travels, and that is not an attempt at trolling, i've literally seen 1, so it must be a niche :)

nope not a joke, but comparing dvd sales to blu-ray/hd-dvd sales is a joke, blu-blood-nipplehead

it took DVD more than 7 years to surpass VHS in sales...you can't compare current BD or HD-DVD sales to DVD...

All Apple products are niche.

They still have a tiny insignificant market too.

Not to mention that they filled a hole where few other products did.

Neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are breaking new ground. They are just a higher resolution DVD.

"Not to mention that they filled a hole where few other products did."

Higher resolution isn't new ground?

The ability to watch a HD program on your new HD capable Plasma or LCD TV isn't worth it? oookay.

No, higher resolution is convenience.

There are more ways to watch HD than HD-DVD and BluRay like cable and satellite, but you believe what you want.

"Niche markets don't make the top story of the evening news.... then again this is Japan"

Hehe you sure you live in Japan? Evening news?

http://tv.yahoo.co.jp/bi...06470840&area=tokyo

NHK every night at 19:00.... 19:00 = evening last time I checked...

I'm refering to what you think doesnt make that particular news :) It's actually had its fair share of it.
Extremly interesting stuff too, happy to start recording when I get back if you like.

Gotcha, you missed the context of my post.

On Saturday 16th, NHK's first story on the 19:00 news was the Toshiba to withdraw from HD-DVD announcement. In response to SlapShot's "niche market" comment I simply was pointing out that if it was a "niche market" it wouldn't be the first story on NHK, a major government news agency.

ah ok i see what you are saying :) apologies for my misunderstanding.
I wouldnt know what was on air then have been out of the country for a few weeks now. Very suprising to hear toshiba made first story though.

Now we wait for Microsoft to release a BD player for the 360 so that it can play both formats.

Yay! for a great console thats not all that proprietary. sorry sony fans.. looks like MS made the better choice by not forcing one format over the other.

what?...you make no sense...

the fact that the PS3 includes a BD player is a major selling point of the console...

and do you even know what proprietary means??...

Many would argue that Sony "forcing one format over the other" is what won the war for Blu-ray...

MS was a major investor in HD-DVD...nowhere near as much as Toshiba...but probably the number 2 investor....

do you really think Microsoft is going to want to pay royalty fees to Sony to create a BD player for the 360??....they would be financing the PS3 in essence...

MS could have ended the format war before it started by including HD-DvD from the start...but they wanted to beat Sony to market so badly they rushed the console out with DVD9 as standard...and now they are stuck....they can never take advantge of the added space for games, because it would make every 360 out there totally useless....

I don't know how you dare mention anyone rushing out a format in defence of sony. They rushed out blu-ray to compete with a higher spec HD-DVD. Now they are in a right mess, as are all who have invested in blu-ray, since any new features will not be backwards compatible. There is only the ps3 that can be updated to support some of the features leaving everyone else needing to buy another player if they want to take advantage of it. sony admitted this and said everyone knew this when they went blu-ray ... yeah right !.

So we are in a situation where sony has managed to win a format ... lets see them mess it up, and prove everyone what they already know. sony corp wants your £$ and they don't care who they do over to get it.

You know of course that BDA != Sony...

Infact Matsush1ta hold more Blu-ray patents than Sony do...

Microsoft don't have a choice. There is no way they can continue to live with DVD9 contraints for much longer, and HD DVD is done.

It's Blu-ray or nothing...

Yeah, Blu-ray a right mess. They've managed to kill off HD DVD so they're in a right mess. I think you want to reread your post.

You do not need a bloray drive in a game console. I don't care if I have to swap disks. What will happen when Sony ships blorays games with 50 different languages making a swap a requirement then what will you arguement be? Its ok since it is on blu. What ever

That on the 360 you will always have 6x more discs.

2x Blu-ray = 12x DVD discs.

Again who cares, people have been swaping disks for a long time.

Doesn't mean they want to swap discs, otherwise if that was the case we'd all still be on CDs.

Honestly, where do you find some of these ridiculous claims?

"There is no way they can continue to live with DVD9 contraints for much longer"

Why?
Love to see this insight you have, I am sure the pc gamer crowd would love to see too.

I would love to see this HUGE jump in the quality of games if a game is going to require 12 discs now over the one currently on the x360.
Must be like jumping from the PS2 to the PS3?

It's very unlikely the DVD format will die during the 360's life cycle. It's clearly sufficient now and for the foreseeable future.

WAIT EVERYONE, THE CHEAP CHINESE HD DVD PLAYER ARE ARRVING AT WALMART SOON, WAIT AND SEE...

http://www.betanews.com/...tor_software/1197566387

By Hocuspokus posted Dec 13, 2007 - 8:16 PM
"The idiots can't see it (cos when you're deluded fanboy why would you understand anything but your laughable 'love' for a CE corporation) but HD DVD is putting all the pieces in place.

Next up will be CES 2008.
It's going to be very good for HD DVD."

Hollywood told me Warner is going HD-DVD exclusive at CES...Hokus is right...its going to be VERY good for HD-DVD...i bet they have a HUGE press conference planned with a even bigger party planned for afterwards...all the big wigs will be there...you won't want to miss it...

yup warner was going hd-dvd, then sony dropped about 500 million to change that

Proof?

(rabid forum claims are not proof).

Both Warner and Sony say there was no payoffs, and the market has clearly shown a Blu-ray preference for the last year. That is usually all thats required.

Do you think EITHER company can hide 500 million in the company end of year reports? Of course not...

Exactly. Wasn't it the HD DVD camp who was rumoured to have dropped money to Paramount to go HD DVD exclusive? So if these rumours are true, then both sides are guilty, not just Blu-ray.

Same way that Paramount didn't get a payoff they got promtional and other none cash incentives.

my proof is "money makes the world go around"

i wouldn't be surprised IF hd-dvd paid paramount 150 million last summer

so i wouldn't expect anything less from sony either

Toshiba paid Paramount to go exclusive...followed by Sony paying Warner to go exclusive...

IF all of that is true...Then Toshiba opened the can of worms and then got backhand slapped by Sony because Sony was able to hook the bigger fish...the Paramount move is insignificant in comparison to the Warner move...if Toshiba was willing to open their pockets they had to be prepared for the BDA to one up them...if they were not, then shame on them....

im not saying either side made any payoffs...im just saying if Toshiba did, then they needed to be prepared for the other side to one up them...

So no real proof then.

Yep, The Toshiba payoff is listed in the accounts as Promotional incintives. Please show is where in Warner or Sony's accounts that reported $500 million is, and what it's listed as.

Until then, it's and invented figure.

Likewise, you show us where that is true regarding Toshiba. You haven't done that still... because you cannot.

CES 2008 already happened! HD-DVD pulled out and did not even have a press conference.

Don't you people read other sources?
HD DVD is dead.

Go back to playing your Wii and quit posting.

Now that Bluray has won, and yes it has won, the PS3 sales will continue to surpass XBOX 360. Just as it has the last 2 months. Ohhh yeah, it feels good to be on the winning side.

If the majority of people are paying for a ps3 to watch blu-ray movies more players sold doesn't mean anything if its not selling games.

If the blu-ray player had not been included on the ps3 it would have been a dead format.

If MS has included the hd-dvd drive maybe it would have won, who cares because the majority of people who watch movies don't care if something looks crisper or clearer dvd is good enough or even an upconverter. Until the hdtv market catches on and movies are actually being recorded in hd rather then using a transfer its not going to mean much to either.

You fanboys are an amazing bunch of twits. Just move on blu-ray won this fight it doesn't mean its going to stay.

correct sir. ps3 was the trojan everyone says it is. AND ms yes would have won if the 360 would have had hddvd built in.

what does that mean. MS F(_)cked up big time. And sony took a BIG risk with blu and it paid off.

moral of the story... you suck.

Congrats you degraded your post to a speech written by a 5 year old, nice.

I don't know a lot about these formats, but I think it's kinda sad to see such an early death to HD DVD.

"Pricing will be a sticking point for Wal-Mart "

And they decided now to support the more expensive format?

Its going to be a awhile before players are at reasonable prices. Even longer before the media is there.

Well at least now we can stop fighting over format wars. hd-dvd can still live on within dual format players. And if dual format players become the norm (which hopefully it should) there's no reason the 2 formats can't still co-exist. (Just like dvd+r and dvd-r). If you think about it, both competing dvd "r" standards eventually were incorporated on newer burners because it was way easier and more convenient. I'm sure by next yr, dual format pc drives will be like 99-149. With dual format SA players 199-249.
Give it a few years guys, it will all be dual format.
Sony and Toshiba will cross license each other and make it happen.

i think the time for dual format players has passed...

The big player in this is Warner...warner controls something like 18% of the market share when it comes to DVD sales...thats A LOT of sales...if Warner had stayed neutral, or maybe even gone HD-DVD exclusive the sales numbers would have been nearly identical and REALLY forced a stalemate, then it would have made sense for dual format players...

but with Blu-ray controlling such a demanding share of the market, and the way sales have gone since the Warner announcement (something like 75-25 this week i've read) the time is ripe for Toshiba to throw in the towel....I would love for them to start manufacturing BD players...their HD-DVD players are GREAT, and i'd probably buy a toshiba because they make such good upscaling players...

Except (apart from the fact that licensing both technologies is expensive) HD DVD discs isn't selling, so it won't be worth making a dual-format player when there isn't any discs around, due to most of the Hollywood studios producing Blu-ray discs.

I don't really care which format walmart supports because I not buying either from those commies.

I find it interesting that all the sony fanboys say that only cheap trash shops at WalMart to buy their HD DVD players. Now that they are dropping HD it is all ok to shop there for a bluray player. They are the kings or maybe queens of double standards.

WAIT EVERYONE, THE CHEAP CHINESE HD DVD PLAYER ARE ARRVING AT WALMART SOON, WAIT AND SEE...

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By Hocuspokus posted Dec 13, 2007 - 8:16 PM
"The idiots can't see it (cos when you're deluded fanboy why would you understand anything but your laughable 'love' for a CE corporation) but HD DVD is putting all the pieces in place.

Next up will be CES 2008.
It's going to be very good for HD DVD."

Give it a rest already. You are just being a troll. Well you usually are but this is pushing it.

WAIT EVERYONE, THE CHEAP CHINESE HD DVD PLAYER ARE ARRVING AT WALMART SOON, WAIT AND SEE...

http://www.betanews.com/...tor_software/1197566387

By Hocuspokus posted Dec 13, 2007 - 8:16 PM
"The idiots can't see it (cos when you're deluded fanboy why would you understand anything but your laughable 'love' for a CE corporation) but HD DVD is putting all the pieces in place.

Next up will be CES 2008.
It's going to be very good for HD DVD."

I think this seals it. I picked up a $199 HD DVD player a few week back, and it's still within it's 30 day return policy. Think I might just take it back and do a part payment on a 40GB PS3.

Do it.

not sure i'd sell just yet...and here is why...

Toshiba does not seem ready to throw in the towel quite yet....and from what i've been reading....Universal's contract runs through 2009....and the only "out clause" in the contract is if Toshiba publically declares HD-DVD dead...same goes for Paramount's deal....

I don't see this happening within the next 6 months....but as support dwindles, stores like Best Buy, Walmart, etc are going to attempt to dump their old stock....you might be able to get some killer deals on HD-DVD stuff...

and even when universal and paramount switch who knows how long before all the HD-DVD exclusives they have already released will make their way to Blu-ray....i'm still thinking about nabbing a high end Toshiba player when the prices plummet because they are SICK up-converting DVD players...

i think you should. its a great player, and its future proof.

Do that then play your PS2 games on it, oh wait you can't.

well being able to play your xbox games on your 360 should help make up for that....oh wait...you can't....

come on...stupid argument on your part there...

well your not all wrong, but not all correct either

Did he actually mention that he wanted to play PS2 games on it? Oh wait he didn't.

Many people knew that the PS3 plays PS2 games but every person that I know does not know that the new PS3's do not. When people are looking at PS3's in sotres by me the sales people have a knack for leaving that part out.

MS never said that all games would be able to be played unlike Sony said out of the gate that you can play all your PS2 games on the PS3. Oh wait they got cheap and took that option out.

But that's not the point - the poster you replied to didn't mention wanting to play PS2 games at all, so your point is moot.

So what? The poster you were replying to didn't mention games playing at all, doh!

I think you want to reread his post again.

That is if blu-ray is the successor to dvd, again just because it beat hd-dvd doesn't mean it will replace standard dvd.

Did you write that original comment? Oh wait you didn’t…..
Who promoted you to babysitter?

"well being able to play your xbox games on your 360 should help make up for that....oh wait...you can't...."

he didnt??? go back to your main account...

Did I say I did? Oh wait, I didn't...

Setian^Stalker = FAIL

You should read your own advice, troll.

Studios, Netflix, and now Wal-Mart. The entire industry has chosen a format to tell, "GO AWAY!".

4 of 6 major studios, Netflix and Wal-Mart are an entire industry?

Might as well be.

nate, why is this so hard to understand? Nate baby, its over. you need to just accept it now. you are just looking like a fool with that false sense of hope baby. its done baby. its done.

Because it is not the entire industry. I bet you can still get stuff from Amazon. There goes the entire industry theory. I do accept the fact that is is done but that is not the point here. You are just wrong with your statement.

SGD is entirely right on this....this baby is not over until Toshiba says it is....and i don't see that happening for at least 6 months....i think they will hold out as long as there is still hardware stock left for them to sell...

Nate Mook is the laughing stock of thew Internet. Do a search over at HiDefDigest, as see how much everyone laughs at his idiotic comments.

By 'everyone', do you mean all of the different names you use over there? Given the Steve/Ben history, it's a fair guess.

It appears the war ended Steve. You can STFU now.

no your the laughing stock dave

Toshiba Japan have already said it's over

http://www.reuters.com/a...s/idUSL1627196120080216

Put your self in there shoes would you not want to sell your stock first? As much as I don't like it it is business. I agree that the war is over but I would rather sell my stock then send it to landfill.

to be honest...i can't wait to see Toshiba XA2's hit rock bottom prices...i really might pick one up...

I agree. Plus I would like to have a second drive as a backup.

Side stepping the valid questioning of someones post to take a swipe at someone?

The only fool is you

A search at HiDefDigest uncovered a bunch of proud blu-ray supporters attempting to discredit him.
Hardly the 'laughing stock of thew Internet'

Not that I dont agree its over but if you guys want to have a go at people spinning things why not start with yourselves?
Saying Toshiba have said its over is spinning... because they have not yet.

Didn't you know? I was posting it from the future! ROFL!

Midichlorian_Joe, how much are your student loan payments

by the way everyone, i was joking about the 80+ hd-dvd's, i don't own anything

guess i'll go buy a ps3 tomorrow

I think Walmart is following the result of the war, and it seems logic to drop HDDVD. Else, what will happen: customers will buy HDDVD players, use them for a while, realize they are using a Betamax system, so, based on Walmart return policy, most of them will return the product and ask money back.
Now, if you are the Walmart manager, are you willing to take this risk/loss?

Hell yes. Knowing that BD is the successor to DVD, its a done deal.

Just because Bluray has won this war the format is still a niche market with a very small precentage of market penetration. In the long run it could still fail at least admit that.

bingo

Yep, you're right. Sensible post here.

Niche or not, it's the next best thing to come. You just watch. BD is now the successor of DVD. It will never fail. Speak for the DUD camp's inferior format. Nothing that you say now does matter nor will change the facts that BD is way superior than HD DUD. Keep dreamin'.

Oh wait, they just pulled the plug on HD DUD players. HAHA!

Is this (and the Best-Buy news) really a sign that Blu-ray wins, or is it a sign that traditional stores don't have the shelf space to support the public interest anymore? If there's one thing these boards show, it's that both HD formats have interested buyers. Let's declare iPod the winner and stop selling any other mp3 player. Let's declare the PC the winner and stop selling Macs. Why not declare Harry Potter the winner and stop selling any other books?

Is this really about anything besides how much shelf space a traditional brick-and-mortar store can spare? (I see no evidence of blu-ray bribery.) During Beta/VHS times mailing away for a player was no small matter. Will this really end the same way in spite of the ease of online other-format purchases?

(For those readers looking to classify me, I currently own neither, and with my student loan payments I probably won't own either until 2035.)

Board posting is one thing. Actual sales is another, however, and sales have shown that there isn't much HD DVD selling going on, hence, it's dropped.

Bit like Gameboy and Atari Lynx back in the day, for example. Atari Lynx were selling, but not enough for retailers to keep it going, hence, it got dropped.

After all, why devote shelf space to stock that isn't selling when you can fill it with something else that IS selling. Basic retail economics.

what am i supposed to do with my 80+ hd-dvd's I've collected over the past year???? Not to mention I just bought 2 new Toshiba Hd-A3's when they were selling at $149 recently

Keep them. No reason to toss and rebuy. Keep the player and discs as long as they work. When they die (if they do) then rebuy on BR.

IN fact I will buy a new 1080/24p/HDMI1.3 HDDVD player on the cheap so that I can watch the ones I have in ubermode.

My Bluray collection is about the same as my HDDVD collection right now.

eBay

Why not continue to enjoy them?

As long as the players are working, there's no need to rush out and re-purchase everything on BR.

Hell...when Wally World had the A2 on sale for $99, I picked up 2...1 is in use, the other is still in the package. For me, it was a nice little piece of insurance; a guarantee I'd have a working unit if the format fell through.

I just want to know, if blue-ray does win, how much are you willing to pay for a player?

www.talkprice.net

The cost of manufacture + retailer margins?

I don't understand how people cannot see that HD DVD was sold vastly below it's cost of manufacture, to get a leg up.

What Blu-ray players sell for, is the true value of the players, and should be what HD DVD were selling for, as the tech is near identical.

this is so true....

yes, Blu-ray is more expensive at the moment, but try and think back to 1998 and think how expensive DVD players were one year after release....they were EXPENSIVE...even right now if you buy an HD-DVD player, or a BD player, or heck even an HDTV you are plain and simply an early adopter...and prices are high for early adopters...its just the way it works...

the problem with HD-DVD is...as they started to fall behind in sales they threw caution to the wind and just slashed prices...they started selling things are incredible losses!...do you think Toshiba is making a profit on the $149 players? NO WAY!

And sony does not sell the PS3 for under cost.

It's called a loss leader, and Sony make the money back from PS3 games, and Blu-ray patent licences.

Toshiba don't make anything back...

$50. About the same I paid for my last DVD player ($40) + some inflation.

That was not my point you make it sound like Toshiba is the only company that does it.

Sony was talking hundreds of dollars in loss per console...as of the start of this year production costs had been cut in half....from roughly $800 to roughly $400 per console....but the retail price of the PS3 was also cut....

as of right now I believe Sony is breaking even on consoles sold, or at the very least taking a MUCH smaller loss per console....i know the gaming division posted a large profit....of course the PS2 is the main reason for that...

but losses are to be expected these days in the gaming business, at least in the first year or two of production....heck the original xbox never made MS a penny of profit...

I better go buy two before they sell out!

Yay hopefully one format can lose already so I know what to buy.

Too bad its the sony supported sign.

My HDTV will now simply be used for my Xbox 360, upconverting DVD and HD channel.

I vowed to never support blueray, and i'll do it.

im glad you wont be supporting "blueray" but that doesn't stop you from supporting the winning HD format BLU-RAY....

but seriously you just sound like a whiny fan boy that is upset because he backed the wrong horse...

For God sake look at the pot calling the kettle black. And I suppose you never have a typo. You are the one known to be a crying fanboy so move along. You must really enjoy the childish attacks on people. For God sake give it up already.

Being an early adopter has its costs one will win out in the end.

I'm not following this logic that since HD-DVD players will now be practically given away that this will drive demand for the discs themselves up, thus reviving the hardware demand.

Are you crazy? They aren't going to be SELLING the disks, or the hardware ANYMORE. I love the 91 Honda CRX. I DEMAND Honda make more. Oh ya, they quit making it 15 years ago.

Better or worse debates aside, the real issue now is making sure the people buying HD-DVD now, whether it's $49 a player or not, is that they are making an informed decision that when they come back next month to buy a movie, they won't be there.

Now, if it is also a good DVD player, you might argue that a good up-converting DVD player for $49 is a good deal. As long as the salesperson lets them know that is all they are likely getting.

If you look back, DVD really exploded when the PS2 came to market. All of a sudden, 10's of millions of DVD players were in the hands of people that had money to spend on things like games and movies. Trying to lead a format by going after high-end connoisseurs just doesn't work when you want to sell millions of players and movies.

Had MS gone with HD-DVD in the 360, this would have truly been a never-ending war...

In regards to the 'logic': If anything, this may give studios the incentive to keep pressing currently available films on HD DVD (at least a little while longer than expected). With the number of players in homes, there's still money to be had; and while it won't give the format a fighting chance, they can still cash in on what's out there.

I disagree with you on one point, though. Had MS gone with an internal HD DVD drive, I don't think this would have been a war at all. I think we would have seen the formats treated more as platforms, with the big players showing support for each (maybe not 100% support, but more in line with how video game companies deal with multiple platforms).

i understand your logic, but why prolong it?...lets just move on....the sooner a decisive decision is made (Toshiba pulls the plug) we are going to have indecision on the consumer front...the sooner all the studios know which format is the winner the sooner we get allmovies on one format, and the studios can start opening their catalogs to update them...

A two platform situation may have been created, I agree, but I think a consumer solution in the way of dual-mode players or dual-format discs would have eventually provided a non-gaming platform option...

If Toshiba can make money on $99 HD-DVD players, certainly they can retool for Blu-ray (as if they haven't been gearing up for that anyway) and still make tons of money being a leader in that market. If they have been loosing money on players though, well, that's their dumb decision, not the consumers...

If the 360 had an internal HD-DVD Blu-Ray would have been crushed before it ever got out the gate. HD-DVD was stomping Blu-Ray until the PS3 came out. Blu-Ray wouldn't have stood a chance.

this i agree with....a built in HD-DvD drive in the 360 would have destroyed Blu-ray before it was even launched!....

at this point BD is helping the PS3 outsell the 360...and the PS3 is helping BD outsell HD-DVD...

All complete conjecture and wishful thinking. You can deal with hopes and dreams, but we'll deal with facts - HD DVD is dead.

Well you can blame Microsoft for that. In their haste and desperation to get one over Sony's PlayStation, they decided that HD DVD wasn't important to the gaming side of the console. That said, it's nbot surprising, they don't have a big vested interest in HD DVD as much as Sony had in Blu-ray.

I'm not talking about prolonging the format war, here, so much as allowing the 'later' adopters to get some value out of their investment. Allow them to make the switch at a more leisurely pace.

We both know that the average consumer isn't as well versed in this, as we are. There are bound to be some who pick up the players, based solely on price (without having the 'play by play' that we seem to live for...LOL). It's going to be VERY difficult for the studios (and hardware manufacturers) to convince these people to switch over, so soon after buying into the one format. Even with a minimal investment (say, for example, a $149 player and 5 movies), it's going to be tough to re-gain their trust...and understandably so. I wouldn't be surprised if many take a **** it attitude, and bow out for a good long time.

It's about fostering goodwill with the consumer, and maintaining his trust in the HD market.

this is just outright wrong

has MS launched the 360 with an internal HD-DVD drive, you would have had to wait for almost another year to buy one... no way they would have managed to launch is a year in advance of the PS3 - which was the ONLY thing that gave the 360 the traction it has :)

Meanwhile, the Wii came out the SAME time as the ps3 and is outselling both, explain again how being first means a damn bit of anything?

The Wii isn't actually a full "3rd Gen Console" - it is doing well strictly on the merits of being different/unique, an doesn't compete on the same playing field because of this.

It's a very cool console

but the fact remains that part of the appeal of the Xbox 360 was it was the first 3rd gen, HD console on the market - had it launched at the same time as the PS3, it's entirely likely it would not have enjoyed the same kind of success it has. Not to say it wouldn't have been successful, but being the only 3rd gen system available for a year gave it a leg up it otherwise wouldn't have enjoyed.

It wouldn't have bolstered HD-DVD in a meaningful way with HD-DVD integrated though, simply because it would never have had the year of grace it did. If you look at the overall numbers, the PS3 has been just as strong as the 360 through the 1st year, and looks to be going stronger now than the 360 was at this juncture of its existence.

The Wii is irrelevant - its success just shows that a cool concept goes a long ways to making a successful product... but this has no bearing on the effect adding HD-DVD to the 360 from the beginning would have had on the overall success of HD-DVD

Wow, still missed the point, if the ps3 was really that good it would have caught up with the xbox360.

It didnt even start selling until there was two different price cuts and even then people were buying it as a blu-ray player only.

Even then its games may look pretty but have not been scoring well.

I love how the fanboys say the wii its not a 3rd gen console because the graphics are not HD.

Its selling because the graphics are better then its previous version, it actually HAS games that people WANT and its a different way to play a console.

Lets take a look at your theory that firsts are what take the market here now shall we?

Neo Geo
TurboGraphix 16
3do
Dreamcast
Sega Saturn
The robot for nintendo
Virtual Boy

All consoles that were firsts and still failed, it doesn't matter who comes first it matters who delivers what they say.

Technically, the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and Wii are 7th Generation consoles.

who missed the point?

not I

I'm not a fan of either console.

it's funny how fanboys like yourself get riled up and assume it's another fanboy attacking your precious product. This is simply about the assertion that adding HD-DVD would have tipped the scales in that direction, when it never could have been done without losing the year of non competition the 360 enjoyed, since HD-DVD was NOT ready at the time of the 360 launch.

way to be an idiot

The PS3 has (almost) already has caught up with the 360.

BAD LUCK!

Since I own neither console and your main point was that because it was the first 3rd gen console, nice try.

who's getting riled up your main point was that because xbox360 was first was the main reason people bought it, I gave you a list of firsts which all failed miserably.

The Neo Geo was a very nice arcade platform widely regarded for its fighting genre. Unfortunately, the high price and VHS-sized game cartridges made it rather unpopular in the home. I still love emulating those games though, especially the Metal Slug series.

The 3DO... Trip Hawkins' exorbitant asking price pretty much kept it out of millions of homes it could have found itself in (except for mine). For its time, that system had incredible graphics, sound, and really fun games (and very accurate ports of a few arcade games too, like Dragon's Lair and Super Street Fighter II). Road Rash was a blast. I had lots of fun with my launch Panasonic FZ1, but if there was ever a more overhyped console than the PS3, that was it. There were quite a few promised features that remained unfulfilled.

Even though the TurboGrafx 16 was rather unpopular in the States, the PC Engine was an extreme success in Japan, faring much better than the Famicom at the time.

The Saturn... nice hardware, but unfortunately far too difficult for even Sega's own in-house AM2 development team to program for. Other 3rd-party developers didn't stand a chance, and it showed.

The Dreamcast though, that was a system with a lot of untapped potential, and is still fairly popular in certain circles. It's the only Sega console I never purchased, but wanted to. As usual, Sega's complete lack of aggressive marketing practically shoved that system into an early grave occupied by most of their other consoles.

Robotic Operating Buddy, Power Glove, Virtual Boy... gimmicky trash. No argument whatsoever. For all of Nintendo's wildly successful endeavors, they have had equally disastrous ones.

How strange is that HD market. So the winner is the more expensive and less feature complete ?

Because 'better' in this case is very subjective. The Amiga was 'better' than the PC. The Colecovision was 'better' than Nintendo. Beta was 'better' then VHS. Remember Super-Beta? No, didn't think so...

Apple OSX is 'better' than Windows. Except... Apple really took off when they switched to the same hardware (Intel) and included support for Windows (Bootcamp)... It's called marketing, and sometimes is it subtle ways to make your product attractive to more people, while keeping your own identity. It's why Mercedes makes a $30K car, it's why Ferrari doesn't. Social science my friends...

Whether you like the PS3 or not, you have to see that this was the marketing decision that pushed Blu-ray through. They toughed out a first year of limited software (games and movies), fought back on the back-room deal making with the studios (and don't try suggest both HDDVD and Blu-ray didn't participate equally in this), and won.

It's not strange at all.

What has happened, is you have listened to the idiots who have brainwashed you into thinking that Blu-ray is somehow inferior.

Let me summerise:

50GB > 30GB
54Mbit/sec > 30Mbit/sec
1080p PIP > 576i PIP
Java > Script
AntiScratch coating > No anti-scratch
Studio Support > no studio support
Profile 1.1 > HD DVD
Profile 2.0 >>>> HD DVD

Let me add to that:

50GB = 20GB of wasted space.
54Mbit = wasted bandwidth (1080p + lossless HD audio fit nicely in 30Mbit or less)
1080PIP is great...if your device can handle it. The majority of stand-alone's are currently incapable of doing this.
Anti-scratch coating because it is needed due to the medium being so close to the surface in order to get that extra 20GB of useless space, whereas, HD-DVD's medium was deeper and less prone to scratching, thus not needing some additional coating (which isn't free....)

So far, you're paying more for better specs that are completely unnecessary to deliver HD content, but hey...it's better specs. The anti-scratch BS is nonsense. BD needs it, HD DVD didn't.

Studio Support > no studio support
Profile 1.1 > HD DVD
Profile 2.0 >>>> HD DVD

...is just laughable BS. How very entertaining.

Good try, BJ.

Add also that he constantly compares Blu-ray's total raw potential bandwidth to HD DVD's video+audio only bandwidth.

1080p PiP frame resolution... that's funny. :)

I'd love for him to just once explain how the "vastly superior" capacity and interactive features are currently being justified or implemented on any Blu-ray title so far.

Are you kidding...I'm waiting for an explanation on how, if the 50gb is so damn superior, Spider-man 3 has most of it's extra features on a second, 25gb disc.

Oh yeah, it's because the average consumer needs 7 different audio tracks (not including commentary); 5 in a language that he doesn't speak.

50gb...HD DVD proved that the extra space is unneccesary, by putting an HD movie, plus interactive features on a 30gb disc.
54 Mbit/sec...HD DVD proved that 30Mbit was more than adequate for HD viewing.
1080p PIP...are you serious? Nobody...not even you...is going to be looking for the detail provided by that resolution in the PIP window.
Java...required numerous firmware upgrades to use it, as it evolved. HDi was a complete (and easier to implement) solution. Proof: The Matrix Trilogy and Batman Begins still have no BR release date, even though released on HD DVD. The reason was that there were numerous issues with bringing the interactive features of HD DVD to BR.
Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0...part of the game of 'catch-up' that the BDA has been playing with the HD DVD format. True PIP, via secondary encoders was included in HD DVD from day one. Web connectivity as well. BR needed 2 revisions to the format in order to offer those VERY SAME FEATURES.

If you're going to spin like that, could you at least edit this name to something like DJ Benjamin Linus?

just wait till Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive at CES....and when the cheap asian HD-DVD players make it to Walmart....

wait....sorry....

Are you a broken record always the same stuff. Its either the same old reposts or childish personal attacks.

oh its just fun at this point....

for months having to listen to Hollywood and everyone else go on and on about how HD-DVD is going to win...blu-ray sucks....and nobody buys PS3's its dead...POS3!! haha!...

and now look how the tables have turned...

Sony has moved more than 10 million consoles....Sony reaches 1 million in the Uk faster than the PS2 did....Sony outsold the 360 in worldwide sales in 2007...Sony just outsold the 360 in North America in January (the final region where 360 has a sales lead)....Toshiba is sputtering along looking desperate as studio after studio, and retailer after retailer dump HD-DVD for Blu-ray....Blu-ray outsold HD-DVD EVERY SINGLE week in 2007 and since the warner announcement its been a landslide victory....

its comical now how the tides have changed and now everyone here at BetaNews is scrambling to try and find something to spin positively....

To me it was clear since day one that blu-ray would be the winner, since Sony owns Sony/Columbia Pictures. But, now the choice should be clear to everyone. Continued support for HD-DVD will be found on various forums, but do not let them sway you into buying into HD-DVD.

You will notice a lot of people will be bitter that they wasted hundreds, maybe thousands of their dollars into a format that will be no more. I would hate for anyone else to fall into this trap, which in turn makes the high definition media scene look bad. I've seen a lot of people post about how this is great, because the prices of HD-DVD titles will be slashed left and right, but thats the same as finding a good sale on VHS tapes.

Look at the facts, recent news articles following the Warner Brothers switch and the NPD numbers over the past year.

Fence sitters the choice is clear.

Have to say that this time agree with you. I had money invested in both and knew that sooner or later one was going to win over the other. That is the cost that you pay for adopting early. I've seen the writing on the wall for sometime but could still hope for some sort of a miracle that never happened. At least your post made a point unlike metfanant that has proven to only be able to post garbage.

For what it is worth I still do have serious issues with a movie studio making the device to play their movies back on. This goes back to DVD not just Blu ray. Wanted to make that fact clear.

yes i post nothing but garbage, yay!....

get a life....i've posted nothing but facts in this thread, because you do not agree does not make it garbage...

You post opinions.

like what?

"i dont like those games so they are bad"
"i dont like those games so the PS3 has no good ones"

sounds more like you post the opinions...

No doubt in my mind that HD-DVD is a waste of money now.(Unless you just want it for a good upscaler) It is pretty much end of the line for HD-DVD. Doesn't really hurt me any though. I have both players already so one of them had to go down.

of course it was clear, they sign your paycheck

"Fence sitters the choice is clear."

Yes, it is. Wait to invest until Oct., when blu-ray discs FINALLY offer the same feature set that HD DVD had all along.

As I have said over and over again, it's a domino effect. BD has long won this war, period. This is definitely a 1-2-3 death punch week for the DUD camp. This is a definite TKO week.

And hey, look at what The Hollywood Reporter posted today in regards to Toshiba expected to pull the plug:

http://www.hollywoodrepo...b22e86027d0bfb0c25aa58d#

Now let see some true fire sales going.

http://en.wikipedia.org/...on_optical_disc_formats

I'm not on either side of this fight. But judging by what i saw on the link above from wiki, you have to be honest and think Blue Ray is not only out front but probably going to win this battle.

Anyone else still believe the format war is NOT over? It's done. Not that it really matters anyhow IMHO. I wish HD DVD won. I still believe it's superior and COMPLETE, compared to Blu-ray, but thats now how it ended up.

Ah well i'm still happy enough with my DVDs and will still be happy whenever i buy a new TV and an up converter

Hey Hokuspokus, when are these cheap Walmart HD DVD players landing?

I predict that Walmart will only stock HD DVD movies from June.

I also predict that Netflix will go HD DVD exclusive.

HD DVD is the victor.

And I predict you have a very lonely life pretending to be someone else

wow, all these months of people defending HD-DVD's I mean those fanboys were really riffing!! they had all these statistics etc.. all boils down to this :-) damn, i'm glad i got a ps3!! but i almost chose Gears of war (xbox).. ahhhh

Ah...I'm glad I chose a 360 and a PS3, now I can play any game I want and watch any movie I want, ahhhhhh....

trust me, i'm working on getting a 360 also :-) ahhhh lol

What? Are you kidding me? Wal-mart, the world renound "low cost leader" in the market, is dropping the LOWEST PRICED high def DVD player on the market? This just has to be a joke, right? These people aren't this stupid...are they?

OK, this just proves it for me now. Now I KNOW Sony is buying retailers off with multi-million dollar private, back-room pay offs to get them to drop HD DVD. When Wal-Mart says they are dropping a lower priced unit in favor of a unit that is selling for MORE THAN TWICE the price, then you absolutely know there is multi-million dollar back room buy offs going on.

This totally flys in the face of everything Wal-mart as a company stands for and has ever stood for. If this doesn't prove to you, once and for all, that this is preditory capitalism and market manipulation (pay-to-play) being practiced by a very well funded multi-national manufacturer (Sony), than absolutely nothing ever will.

I can't believe that Wal-Mart would let its reputation be dragged through the mud like this? This move just completely flys in the face of their whole go to market strategy, and they don't even care! Wow. Talk about trashing your credibility with your customer base. This one just absolutley takes the cake in my book.

Lets see Wal-Mark try and squirm their way out of this one and explain it away to their customers. That should be some world class tap dancing (BS) right there. Best Buy can maybe play it off because they don't claim to be the world's low cost leader, but Wal-Mart? Not a chance.

You obviously missed the fact that HD DVD discs are not selling. Lower priced doesn't necessarily mean good sales for the retailer. The disc sales are obviously unsustainable for the retailer, hence, HD DVD dropped.

Wal-mart also stands for selling things that people can actually use.

The format war is over. Blu-ray won. Like it or hate it, thats the way it is. Wal-mart is recognizing that by stopping sales on a dead-end format.

Maybe they would sell more if they stocked more then 3 of them in the store.

Dunno what store you're looking at, but obviously for that store, HD DVD wasn't selling, hence reduced availability.

War is over. Blu-Ray is the winner.

NAH NAH NAH NAH, NAH NAH NAH NAH, HEY HEY HEY......... [somebody finish it!!!]

GOOD-BYE!

Wasn't your last post supposed to be a few days ago?

...go die?

Yes, the format war is over. What's annoying now is the people reacting like giggly 12-year old girls.

Yes, I am talking about you and your pet, testman,

Agreed. Judging by the juvenile comment one would think that his person and metfanant are the same person.

well i guess at least i have a good upconverter while i wait out the "price point" and profile disaster

What happened to choice?

That WAS the choice. The public has spoken via disc sales. Blu-ray discs are outselling HD DVDs by miles, hence, the dumping of support for HD DVD as it's not selling (the discs). Yes, the players are outselling Blu-ray players, but the players don't mean much to the actual film studios as much as the actual discs that THEY are selling.

No point in supporting a format that won't get many blockbuster movies released on it when most of the high-profile Hollywood studios are only supporting the rival.

There was no choice. To say there was is just ridiculous. Could I buy Cars on HDDVD? No I can't. Could I buy Die Hard on HDDVD? Nope Blu-Ray only. Could I buy Transformers on Blu-Ray? Nope HDDVD only. Where is the choice? Hollywood decided this format war while dragging us around for a ride.

Yes there was. The majority of the consumers have chosen and the vendors have listened. It is what it is, live with it. You just watch, Uni and Par will go neutral before you know it and Toshiba WILL either pull the plug soon or go neutral. Mark my words.

It's naive to believe that the public made this choice. It was industry deals all the way. When Warner took their Blu-Ray payment and went exclusive that basically killed HD DVD, and now businesses are doing what they have to do. Actual sales of both formats together were miniscule, the public had very little to do with it.

Uh, choice means you can get BOTH on either format to compare which one you like more, if one moviegoer likes Sony movies, their only choice was blu-ray. To call this a choice the consumer made is laughable on all levels.

The choice that we're talking about here is the choice of the majority of the consumers. They, including me, have chosen BD. BD has waay better selection of movies than HD DUD. Yes there are good movies in DUD but majority are in BD. THAT is one of the reasons killed the DUD camp, lack of consumer support.

The only laughable at all levels here is how the DUD camp is still trying to revamp on the dead technology that they camped in. You watch, this week Toshiba will announce pulling the plug which officially seals the door in your own camp.

This could actually work out really well for the HD format. Think about it, all of these places are going to be dumping their HD players at really low prices. People might just buy them because they can get them for a song.

Now we suddenly have a gluttony on the market of HD players out there and people looking for movies.

I don't know - maybe it will get the companies rethinking their extraction from the HD format wars and we can keep this going for another few years.

I've had people tell me, Blue-Ray is better quality, it's selling more. I say - yeah - so was Betamax and most of them look at me and say "What's that?" My point exactly :)

I have to say that given the choice - and I'd prefer to have the choice - I would choose HD DVD. Unless I had a Playstation then I wouldn't pick Blu-ray myself. But then I don't live in America so I don't give a toss what Wal-Mart do. I know they own Asda in the UK but Asda are still selling cheapo Asian bog standard DVD players. I can't see Asda selling either HD DVD or Blu-ray for years and years so it's a non-issue for me.

Wasn't there an article here about how the Blu-ray player in the PS3 wasn't quite compatible with all of the Blu-ray disks? Is there something like a 2.0 spec or something and the PS3 can't read it?

Or am I thinking of something else?

Something like that but Sony will release updated Playstations you can be sure. (I personally wouldn't mind betting though, that while bog standard Blu-ray players can't be upgraded, that Playstations somehow miraculously can be). lol

It's all to do with profiles. The main movie and extras will be playable on whatever profile your player has. Profile 1.1 introduces a few new features (such as picture-in-picture) while Profile 2.0 introduces mandatory internet connection (so you can get internet data for your particular film).

So if you want to utilise these extra features, you'll need a player that is compatible, however all the discs will still work whatever.

Some players will be able to be updated via firmware and some will not (cos they lack the physical hardware, like a net connection for Profile 2.0). PS3 is one such player that can be updated (because it already has all the necessary hardware). So the PS3 WILL be compatible with 2.0 (as it already has the necessary hardware to support the features), but support for the 2.0 features (that will arrive on the disc itself) will come in a firmware update.

So yeah you were probably thinking of something else.

actually....flip that around....currently the PS3 looks to be one of the few players that will upgrade to profile 2.0....currently there are no 2.0 discs out there....there are very few

He is helping move the Blue Peter garden to Manchester.

Susie,
I have a diamond ring here for you. Girl are you dripping?
Price point is brilliant!
Wheres' Joey?

ps3 is only a average BR player. it can not and will never be able to bit stream the audio only pcm. no upgrade will ever fix this. profile 2.0 I will believe it when they release it.

http://www.engadgethd.co...the-best-blu-ray-player/

sounds like you have no idea how sound works....

first of all its not like PCM is of lesser quality than bitstream...sending it PCM just means the PS3 does the decoding and then sends the info to your speakers....or through your reciever then through your speakers...

even if the PS3 could bitstream the audio your receiver would have to be able to do the decoding....and not many can....if Sony and DTS get together there should be no reason they can't come up with an internal decoder for DTS:MA in a firmware update....

PCM is just as good if not better, the PS3 just currently lacks the decoder for DTS:MA...if it gets a decoder down the road then it will be a non-issue...of course it matters not if the studio includes a PCM soundtrack on the disc....which is a totally uncompressed sound file, EXACTLY how it was recorded upon filming..which means it is the highest quality possible...

as far as playing the movies, the PS3 is an above average player...not the best, but certainly not the worst...

and as far as profiles are concerned...the PS3 meets ALL requirements for profile 2.0...there is no reason it will not be updated...but of course just like Hollywood promised everyone that the PS3 would never get a 1.1 update, you will continue to hate on...

I've heard of company's buying out their competition. But I've never heard of a company buying out its competitions vendors. This is a sad state of affairs for Sony and all the company's they have manipulated into dropping HDDVD via $$$.I am not saying this because I own a Toshiba HDDVD player and simply love it, I am saying this because I can not see the difference in quality between the two and really don't care if Blu ray can hold more info.I'd love to see Toshiba come out with a Recordable HDDVD player to record my HD Channels at a cheaper cost than the Blu Ray player and bury Sony in its own crap.