I still dont see why they need Bluray or even HD DVD, the standard DVD format is excellent already and doesnt even need improvement. Bluray will go on the net?? its a entertainment system for goodness sakes, you watch movies on it.. if you want to go on the internet jump on a PC!!! its not that hard seriously.

What about those people who bought hundreds even thousands of dvds, ( I for one have nearly 400) if it works out like VHS vs DVD, the DVD discs are going to be overwritten in a matter of years..

I see no reason to have a new medium for movies. DVD is good enough. Technology is moving too fast for itself.

/end rant

let the flames begin

I'm so tired of DVD is good enough. I rememeber when VHS was good enough. How about that wonderful format now? I am amazed at how people fail to understand progress. EVERYTHING will be replaced with something better some day. So when you can no longer buy DVDs then what will you do? Ah, downloads great idea until the hard drive fails then what? At least with a in disk in hand that is not an issue. Downloads a very long time off to match the quality of blu or even hd had to offer.

Technology is a about progress you don't like it don't buy in but you will be left behind.

I remember the day when my brother had hundreds of 8-track tapes, yup, technology advancements replaced that too.

Wow.

VHS *was* good enough. Until DVD prices dropped to the point where it was pretty much equal cost. The same will occur with Blu-Ray.

Until then....DVD is good enough.

Apple just signed deals to have new releases the same day as their DVD and Blu-ray debuts. This is not going to help Blu-ray to take off.

I'll pass on anything they have to offer.

18 months?? Just in time for a new living room format war.

Never. The market will eschew it despite the Sony-sponsored self-hype and wait for a more viable solution.

As it should.

As the article says - Blu-ray will kick off when the players are affordable. You'd be a mug to buy a stand-alone player now, when they still haven't settled on a full feature set.

Personally, I'd be more interested in online distribution of HD media. Unfortunately that includes/requires a wholesale upgrade of the national networks (both here and the US - although at least some parts of the US are properly served with broadband).

So, notice how all of the people defending BluRay went away the day HD-DVD died?

Sony plants, every damn one.

i am renting for the time being. i will wait for the dust to settle this time.

Huge turf battle over turf nobody cares about after all.

Go CE companies and sony fanbois!

I own 2 HD Tvs, and there is NO chance I will be buying a blu-ray anytime soon. Sony's selfish, greedy policies will likely cause them to sleep right through their oppurtunity to capitalise on the Hd market by keeping prices so artificially high. By the time these idiots get the price right, the NEXT generation of HD(3D?) will be here.

I haven't used my home DVD player in months; I won't be upgrading to BR in the foreseeable future. Comcast might not be perfect, but OnDemand satisfies my viewing needs right now.

No real news here!

There is no compelling reason to invest in BR unless you simply want it and have the means to appreciate it - eg: you have a 1080p monitor and more money than brains!

And at the current price points, i now wish HD-DVD had won - for all of the compatibility and price issues.

And I disagree with their prediction - a $200 player with ~$25 media won't fly either. The price will need to be less than $150 for the player and media less than $15. ...Otherwise upconverted DVDs are just fine.

And the longer they wait to achieve this, the less chance they have.

While the non-recurring engineering costs may not yet have been recouped - it would seem that Sony had better find a way to dramatically drop the price of players and media to aid adoption and make it up in volume sales or face the likelihood of watching a lingering and marginalized market lacking a compelling reason for investors slowly twist in the wind.

More money than brains?

You just have to have a high def TV and enjoy High Def.

I rarely pay more than $15 for titles on Amazon and occasionaly elsewhere. And then I rent many others.

I won't ever go back to DVD. I wish HD DVD had won, but Blu-ray is just as good and in most cases no more expensive.

I have 52" HDTV at home and not enjoying. Yes, the big screen look great, but most if not all regular channels look like crap. I am not a big TV person, so I won't subscription to a premium package. Maybe when they allow subscribers to pay for the channels they watch. I am not paying for a package that I only watch 1 or 2 channels.

Without a premium package, how many HD Channels do you get? And how does this have anything to do with Blu-ray?

Sounds like blu-ray would suite you fine - one time player cost and then just rent movies and get more HD out of your TV.

According the the scan, I have like 40 free HD channels. Most of them look like crap, except CBS.

Won't kick into high gear until everything is properly priced.

Why can't Sony just give the customer free money like it did to TW, Paramount and other studio's to kill the HD DVD group..

How much did sony pay to win the war??

It will kick in to high gear when blanks are cheaper so people can copy them from netflix ;)

So true ladylust.

BD is just another excuse (along with HD TV) by greedy corporations to push consumers into paying money they don't have for something they don't need.

yes greedy corporations.. give me a ****ing break.. no one forces anyone to buy anything.. you ****ing libs never take responsibility for yourselves..

I suppose it balances out those who take responsibility of others without having any remote clue what they are dealing with...

Don't lump that sh!t over to the left! That's more commie talk than anything else!

WHen will it kick into gear?
when its sister the laser disk is right beside it and there are BOGO sales to get rid of the obsolete inventory.

Specialty players have to drop in price before the majority of the public will do more than "ooo" and "awww" about them.

I'm particularly wary of Blu-ray since the specification seems continuously re-defined and there is a mismatch between players and media, leading to wasted money.

I can appreciate that Blu-ray media costs more and the burning process requires more expensive equipment. It's difficult to accept that the Blu-ray discs are around $30, even if I paid that for Laserdiscs when video cassettes were the majority. They can let us know when the prices drop. Common DVDs are fine for now.

The BD market will kick in when:

1. DVD player prices become reasonable. In THIS day and age, a DVD player that costs above 100 without 5 speakers is absolutely ridiculous. I don't believe for 1 second they cost 200+ to make, so they're just milking early adopters and people who want to be on the edge. With no competition whatsoever, who knows how long they'll do it.

2. I haven't purchased a *single* DVD for over $10 in years. Sure I'll buy boxed sets for 30+ but for a single movie..even limited edition? Max $20. They're expecting me to shell out 29 dollars...no fu*^ing way.

I'm cheap, that's obvious...not buy 'stuff that breaks in 1 week' cheap, but more, 'this has this value in my book' cheap and I'm sure there are others like me. I'll spend $1000 on no name PC with great parts and look far down and that Sony Vaio with 1/4 the power and %50 more cost. That being said, I feel there are others like me who won't buy their first BD player until they're priced at what dvd players are going for...which is 50-150 in general.

I also think, as others have mentioned...that the market isn't set for wasteful spending right now. Some people can and do, some people can and don't and the rest simply can't.

Neoprimal.. here here!

damn how do you get DVDs so cheap?
here minimum of like 3900 yen ($39 or so) per DVD and like 12DVD box sets or limited editions can go up to like 100000 yen ($1000)

i think what is pretty telling is that the article does not mention a similar price drop in the ps3. even though we know that it is not primarily a bd player, it is still probably the most likely thing that will get those discs in the house initially at least. it at least worked that way with my ps2.

it will be how many years and the price hasn't dropped yet?

i think that indirectly, the government has really hampered the growth of high def dvd. neither format would have ever been popular because with these digital converter boxes and dvd, vcr, or a combination thereof that come with a digital tuner included, these standard def analogue tv sets are going to still be in usage even without being connected to a satellite or cable service. by the time hdtvs become a much much more common norm that would make high def dvd's practical, we may be on some other sort of distribution system that renders these discs pointless.

granted, i don't have a use for blu ray for movie viewing as we only have one hdtv. i'm going to be using dvd's for quite some time, and i'm sure that the vast majority of americans are with me on that.

Still a niche product. I'm a tech freak and I don't buy BD movies. I rent them.

Oil prices are taking everyone's extra income, the average family doesn't give a **** about BD when they have worry about where the next meal is coming from.

These incentive checks that Bush is sending out will go for groceries and bills.

Unfortunately we don't qualify for any "stimulus" money.

Sad part is that $600 is nothing. That money will not even last a month for the average family.

I would not mind an extra $600, but we will not be getting anything from the government either.

Agreed. I am concerned about the sky rocketing costs of everything and being able to keep up. I was lucky to get the company max raise yet rising costs are way above that increase. Seems like every week at the grocery store the prices are higher. Hell at least the oil companies are making a little bit of money.

The average "family" will be getting a bit more than $600, genius.

$600 per adult, $300 per child.

That's at least $1500 per average "family".

Hell at least the oil companies are making a little bit of money.

Supply and demand. If they lowered prices to make *less* money, we'd run out of gas.

I'd rather pay a bit more than suffer gas shortages and mile long lines again.

I believed in that for a while about oil companies but am beginning to change my mind. Investors are driving the prices up for no real just reason. The banking industry and oil industry is destroying the economy and I hope they are proud of themselves. Corporate greed is once again in full swing. There is plenty of oil, pump it and build more refineries.

There is plenty of oil, pump it and build more refineries.

Pretty much the point of my post. There's no shortage of Oil, just a shortage of ability to produce (not enough refineries).

The last refinery built in the US was in Garyville, Louisiana, and it started up in 1976. Demand has increased dramatically since then, and we were short on production capabilities then... Saying we need more refineries is an understatement of epic proportions.

The banking industry ... is destroying the economy

Are you referring to the housing "crisis"? I don't think the banks are 100% to blame for people taking out ARM loans they can no longer afford. When the feds lower interest rates....it *will* go back up. That's how it works and how it has always worked.

"If they lowered prices to make *less* money, we'd run out of gas. "

The world is going to run out of gas no matter if the prices go up, down, or stay the same. Oil is a finite resource on this planet.

Homes selling for more then they were worth is not the banks fault but making high risk loans to people that in reality can't afford a home is ethically questionable. Banks took many very risky chances and are now paying the price. Its to bad that for the most part all of them were after the money grab.

Anyway back to oil. The green movement I see is the major problem. They block any plans to build refineries and drill for more oil. I'm tired of I don't want that in my back yard mentality. It has to be in someones back yard so get over it. A friend of mine has a large natural gas well in his backyard and gets a nice deal from the gas company to have it there.

I say if there is oil there drill for it. I don't care where it is go for it. I agree with the oil refinery troubles. That needs to be dealt with immediately. Lets not build these refineries in prime hurricane areas either.

Short term thinking. The oil is going to run out. Not going to happen tomorrow or next month, but it will happen.

The only thing you can do is conserve by not driving as much, getting a more fuel efficient vehicle, etc...

I can not stand hearing people whine about the price of gas as they drive down the road in their 10 mpg SUV.

"That's how it works and how it has always worked."

Is that a quote of a Pharaoh when the priests were starting to worry where the flood was, or from a Caesar when dishing out another round of bread and games?

The US has only been around for an small amount of time compared to world history. The funny thing is that many of its inhabitants haven't made much progress on the religious maturity ladder since prehistoric times (does this deserve a medal for how far off topic one can go..?)

Actually, that would be $1950, but regardless....

That changes everything. The USA economy will booming in no time. Thanks Bush.

???

Wow, er....religious maturity?

WTH?

Homes selling for more then they were worth is not the banks fault

is ethically questionable.

Meh... It's our personal responsibility to guard ourselves against the lack of ethics on the part of others. There are no laws saying that one cannot be unethical (so long as one remains within the, erm....actual law).

I got screwed over by an auto salesman. I didn't cry about it, I was mainly pissed at myself for being taken in.

Anyway back to oil. The green movement I see is the major problem. They block any plans to build refineries and drill for more oil. I'm tired of I don't want that in my back yard mentality. It has to be in someones back yard so get over it. A friend of mine has a large natural gas well in his backyard and gets a nice deal from the gas company to have it there.

It'd be interesting to see the reaction of folks in an area to say, "If you let us build a refinery here, we'll make sure you never pay more than $2 a gallon". Of course, that would *never* happen. The Enviro-freak lobby has deep pockets and would *never* allow it. It'snot the neighbors, or the oil companies, really... It's the enviro"mental"ists nutjobs.

I'm fine with going green. We make a mess, we clean it up. This is an excellent attitude to have and live by. Forcing it upon others, and stopping progress to serve some fanatical ideal of "being one with Mother Earth" is simply not healthy, for us or the planet.

I say if there is oil there drill for it. I don't care where it is go for it. I agree with the oil refinery troubles. That needs to be dealt with immediately. Lets not build these refineries in prime hurricane areas either.

Heh.. Like that last bit. Kind of like not building huge cities in flood-zones. Ya think?

I actually agree with you.

Conserve by making more fuel efficient vehicles, this is fine. Price the non-fuel efficient one's into a range where those who want them will end up paying enough to fund further research into alternatives.

The only real issue I have with you comment is the bit The oil is going to run out. Not going to happen tomorrow or next month, but it will happen.. It ain't going to happen in our lifetime, nor in the lifetimes of our grandchildren. If we go the alternative route and price the non-efficient uses properly, we should be able to make the transition gradually without "shaking the nest" too badly.

I was actually checking out the smartcar yesterday online. Was amazed at how cheap they are and as a to/from work vehicle, they sound like a perfect fit.

While true, it's not going to happen any time soon.

We can serve the current market and work towards alternatives without pricing vehicles and their fuel out of reach of the general public.

600+600+300=1950?

Where *did* you go to school?

That changes everything. The USA economy will booming in no time. Thanks Bush.

Never said it would, in fact, I think it's a joke. A silly push by the dems to further the goal of making people believe our economy is in the toilet....which it isn't.

I've been through several recessions. A recession this ain't.

...you can say it is, or will be, or that we need to be doing something to stop it from happening, but it isn't, you cannot prove it will be, nor that we aren't already doing something to stop it. :)

I don't think it's a recession but it is a quiet time, which is used for restructuring by many of the more mature players. Individuals with the right qualifications will benefit and those without will suffer. Since they have come along for the ride it will be painful to lose it.

"I was actually checking out the smartcar yesterday online. Was amazed at how cheap they are and as a to/from work vehicle, they sound like a perfect fit."

...which was created 15 years ago in Europe.

...

Are you really trying to turn this into an EU vs. US thing? You seem to be hung up on that...

Do you really want to go there?

Adaptation, and Darwinism?

Heh... I'm actually surprised to see that in a post of yours. I may have pegged you wrong.

Most folks would just whine about it and look for someone (other than themselves) to blame. (Instead of doing anything about it for themselves)

Handouts just what the Dems want us to expect. Opens the door to more entitlement which we already have way to much of.

Average family is 2.5 kids, right? Or you are saying it is 1 now?

I never said we were in a recession; by definition we are not...there have not been two quarters of negative growth.

Did you see that huge oil find in South America something in the area of 100 billion barrels. That is just there, then the find in I think it was North Dakota. There is enough oil to get use by until we can find an other resource to exploit.

I agree with the conserving fuel. My car gets 30 mph and have had it for 5 years. My point is that the increase in gas is effecting every facet of life. Did you ever notice that food prices are skyrocketing? Why is that? Those huge trucks that bring your food to the store get terrible gas mileage. Maybe because they are hauling tons of stuff. We need more refineries to get more supply in the hands of the consumer.

There is plenty of gas to last use decades. I challenge you to prove that wrong. Maybe we should convert our home heat back to coal would that suit your conservation plan? There is lots of that.

I agree that wasting is foolish.

True 'dat.

Nah, I used 2+1 in my example (bare min with a kid) and was giving you crap for switching it on me. :p

I never said we were in a recession; by definition we are not...there have not been two quarters of negative growth.

Exactly, but the conversation was headed there and I wanted to head that off before someone else jumped in with just such a claim.

Now that you mention it, I really don't know what the "average family" is nowadays. It's like, 2 parents, 3 step parents, and a litter or half-siblings now, isn't it? ;)

Would not want to be in that smartcar in a accident with a Cadillac Escalade or similar gas guzzler. That is my biggest fear of the small fuel efficient cars. You crash you die.

Sure, but it's better than biking or walking.

*shrug*

I used to own a Geo/Chevy Metro for that purpose. The styrofoam cup with an engine bit was a small price to pay for 50+MPG.

Well, we need to stop using oil for heating and electricity for one thing.

We have alternatives that will last eon's longer in nuclear reactors. We just need to figure out what to do with the mutants. ;)

You may. I wear a special hat for you.

If people would bike or walk more maybe this place wouldn't be packed full of fat slobs.

People seem to think that hydrogen is the way to go but there are some serious issues that that to. First is methane is needed or massive amounts of electricity to produce the hydrogen. With people being so against nuclear energy that will be a problem. Then there is the very limited amount of (known) uranium that is recoverable. The important part is known. The best solution that we the human race needs to master is controlled thermonuclear fusion.

Ride your bike to the ice cream stand what a concept.

pitdingo2, that is smartest statement you have ever made

According to OPEC the world uses around 90 million barrels of oil a day. So that is around a billion barrels every 11 days. So based on current consumption (which is going up daily as China, India, Brazil, Russia, and other areas are modernizing) the 100 billion would be used in less than 1100 days or basically three years. A drop in the bucket.

http://www.opec.org/libr...s/PetrolIndustry/q2.htm

Go ahead and believe that the oil pumps will stop running a coupld of years it is not true. Those two finds that I mentioned are just a few of the new fields yet to be tapped. There is another huge field in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, Russia, Canada, and the Arctic to name a few. There is lots of oil for decades. Like I said we do need to cut back but fear mongering is not the solution.

Since you think you are so smart what is the solution? I'm sure you are also against building more refineries. You sound like the green nut job that I was mentioning earlier.

I never said it is not going to run out. It just will not run out as soon as you want everyone to believe.

And for the record I have drastically cut down my driving. I also compost all my yard waste and use no pesticides. I guess you will still find fault with that.

Maybe if people would stop having kids this place wouldn't be packed full of fat slobs.

Maybe if you bought a gun and started killing fat slobs this place wouldn't be packed full of fat slobs.

Maybe if...

...you get the point.

It was a joke, but...

Then there is the very limited amount of (known) uranium that is recoverable.

Thorium. (It's not just for World of Warcraft)

Is it large and pointy at the top? Does it have one word on it in big lettering? Do people normally wear them to corners?

*grin*

/couldn't resist.

Yes, very good.

I said I am wearing a hat for you, not trying to clone you...

Nope. I actually don't.

So that 'alter' you mentioned. It's SGD, right?

Nope.

Not unless I frequently argue with myself.

I actually haven't used my alt in probably over 6 months.

Ouch.

*laughs*

So you guys are blaming the green movement for oil price rises....!! From my basic understanding of geography I'd have though that destabilising the whole middle east by invading Iraq & alienating 90% of the Muslims in the world might have something to do with it... Perhaps floods/storms induced by global warming might also be affecting capacity in the Gulf of Mexico - but who's causing that?

Back to the real subject of the thread though...

- Anyone that has seen BD on a decent HDTV (with 5.1 sound) never want to go back to DVD.
- HD downloads (IP/cable) will be part of most BD players of next year as NAND flash continues to drop in price.

I'd see BD as a 'sexy' product for this xmas and becoming mainstream 2H'10 when ~$200 & 50% of US households have a HDTV to play it on.

not untill the price for a disc comes down
they are $32-$36 on average for a new relase here in Canada hell some are even $40+

HD-DVDs cost even more when they were doing the DVD/HD-DVD discs.

take a look at the prices
http://www.futureshop.ca...ngid=EN&catid=24073

I am so tired of changing formats (LP > cassettes > CD > DVD >...) I will just stick to digital downloads. Blu-Ray just doesn't interest me at all.

So... you made five format changes. Interesting that number six was too much to swallow. ;)

But seriously, I see a need for all those formats with the exception of high-def DVD:

LPs - No complaints and I miss my DiskWasher
Cassettes - Portability
CD - Quality (portability that doesn't blow)
DVD - Content (even content that isn't pr0n)
Blu-ray - ???

That says more about me. I rarely watch anything but the movie. The current "bonus content" to me isn't worth time time. However, people buying these future coasters need to get their money's worth.

But back to you, with no offense intended your time line seems similar to mine. I would wager that the Universe has changed your priorities and like me you don't see the benefit vs. everything else. FWIW I have a 53" TV and upscale works fine, thank you very much.

You need an HD TV to get anything out of Blu-Ray, and nobody is buying new TVs right now. Or anything else for that matter. Until the oil companies are forced to stop gouging and NAFTA is eliminated, nothing will change.

Until the oil companies are forced to stop gouging

The supply may not be limited, but the amount they can process is, which greatly affects prices. What we need are more refineries, which will increase production and lower prices. Problem is, the good ol' US won't let them build out any new infrastructure.

Until that happens or we find an alternative, prices willl continue to rise. The guy who predicted $4 a gallon by this time is now predicting $8 to $10 a gallon in 2-3 years time.

If they were to lower prices, there would be a run on fuel and our supply *would* be a problem. We would simply not be able to produce enough to keep up with demand.

The last refinery built in the US was in Garyville, Louisiana, and it started up in 1976. Demand has increased a bit since then...

"Until that happens or we find an alternative, prices willl continue to rise. The guy who predicted $4 a gallon by this time is now predicting $8 to $10 a gallon in 2-3 years time."

So it will still be cheaper cheaper than it was several years ago in Europe...

The problem in the US is voting for presidents who are wackos but promise a couple of cents off the oil price so one can buy an even larger ridiculously car that even a French one makes look bad in terms of technology and quality.

Who cares about the damn oil price? Get on a bus if you can't afford it. Don't have a public transportation infrastructure? Too bad - start with getting an education and vote people with brains into the administration instead of chest thumping dumb heads.

The problem in the US is voting for presidents who are wackos but promise a couple of cents off the oil price so one can buy an even larger ridiculously car that even a French one makes look bad in terms of technology and quality.

WTH?

Who cares about the damn oil price?

That's damned ignorant of you. Oil goes into more than just gas. Plastic, food production, electricity, heat, damn near *everything* in our modern society is somehow tied to oil.

Get on a bus if you can't afford it.
Don't have a public transportation infrastructure? Too bad

How incredibly sensitive of you.

start with getting an education and vote people with brains into the administration instead of chest thumping dumb heads.

But we should listen to your chest-thumping? It's a nice bit of rhetoric, but you suggest *nothing* to actually solve the problem or even make a dent in it. Ride the Bus? Great, that works *only* for folks on the main arteries. Screw the rest?

Ugh... Someone needs to turn off CNN.

"damn near *everything* in our modern society is somehow tied to oil."

However that is not the point raised. I am sick of people whining about how much if costs to fill up the Suburban to drive the dog for a walk.

Since you yourself are such an expert in sensitivity that really hurt. To the point however - most families on this planet outside the US can make do without several cars per family (or even person). It's a problem of defining quality of life.

...and I don't do TV. If anything I'd listen to NPR of course ;)

...and I don't do TV. If anything I'd listen to NPR of course ;)

Heh... At least you have a sense of humor.

As soon as it's not stupid expensive for "yet another" next gen DVD player I'll get one.

I ride my bike and all I can think about is:
"Man, I need a BLU-RAY Player!"

Methinks "Swanni" is as good an analyst as I am a salsa dancer.

When the price of Oil comes down! I doubt most of us that are spending $3.70+ a Gallon are at the pump going:

"Man, I need a BLU-RAY Player"

Also, they need to get a more streamline price point on the Movies themselves. I mean, I see some for $15... Then I see other @ $34! WHY??? Make them a $20 - $25 purchase and we'll call it even.

Also, BR needs to adopt one thing from HD-DVD. HD-DVD would put the HD Version on one side of the Disc and the SD (Standard Def) version on the other. It will cut down the the 13 versions of "The Fifth Element" and "Underworld" that can currently be bought. I really don't care that a pretty graphic is on the one side of the disc, make it COMPLETELY useful and functional.

I don't think that's necessarily the format's fault, though I don't know. See, even DVDs are available like that - one side has fullscreen, the other widescreen. But the greedy scumsucking studios who put the DVDs want revenue from BOTH. So they'll put out a fullscreen only and a widescreen only version. So you buy fullscreen and 4 months later when you get your home theater upgrade are forced to buy widescreen.
Sure, in very rare cases there may be space concerns, but that's very RARE and generally limited to 3 hr movies.

With BD there's really no excuse. The technology allows manuf. and movie studios to layer the disks so that 1 side can contain bd content and the other can contain cd/dvd etc. But it's unlikely that studios will include SD content or sountracks on these disks because they want the revenue from these other avenues.

Here's an attempt at an analogy...

Imagine an imac, it's an entire computer; a bd disk would be like an imac where you can only use the lcd. Sure, if it just had a few tweaks it would be a computer by itself, but why do that when you're getting revenue from selling towers and desktops. I can do another one too - the ipod touch! A couple chips more and it's an iphone. Similarly, BD disks have the capacity and tech to accomodate hd and sd content, and even play in a cd player - but they'll never do it because they want the revenue from all the different parts.