will sp1 have the new kernel?

Hey Microsoft! Have you forgotten about our Windows XP SP3 update?

One can only hope by the way SP2 was trolled.

Trust me, most people don't want XP SP3 to be released. SP3 will include WGA and extensive pirated key checking, and will be the excuse for Microsoft to no longer give security updates to stolen Windows.

Like they *need* an excuse to not support stolen copies?

Man, you guys floor me.

That doesn't worry me since all my copies are genuine.

In any case, they do update *stolen* copies - Automatic Updates function will download and install any security update regardless. They just can't go to Windows/Microsoft Update to obtain or to download manually the ones that require WGA verification.... but only if your stolen copies have been caught by WGA.

Most people don't care if Microsoft stops providing security updates to stolen Windows XP copies because most people use genuine copies of Windows XP. Personally, I hope Microsoft does discontinue providing security updates to NON genuine Windows XP copies. People who use these don't need them anyways.

Vista SP1 = automatic downgrade to XP Pro SP2.

How so? If anything, Vista SP1 will improve security, reliability and performance, not reduce it.

Another 9 months or more before Vista SP1 gets released ?
Vista SP1 was supposed to be released by October 2007 at the least, now it won't be out until February/March 2008 ... wasting time with a beta for many months is not going to ease the migration to Vista but just slow it down even further.

As I said before, SP1 is related to Longhorn Server. Once they are happy with the the server, then SP1 will be wrapped up to coincide. MS could release SP1 earlier, then SP2 to level it up with the server, but why? There aren't that many issues with Vista to force them into an early SP, so let's just do it once.

Yeah, sure.. Vista is so bug free that they already released some dozens pre-SP1 hotfixes.. :

http://www.microsoft.com...r=50&DisplayLang=en

Show me a less buggy system or one that doesnt have just as many updates? Would you rather them not fix it at all?

Nah, because the only way he knows about them at all is when they patch them. If they didn't, he'd have to find something else to b*tch about.

tou'che

Yes, I would rather them not fix the errors. These are the errors that shouldn't have been present initially, right?

(sidenote: I can understand several errors here and there. People can forget a late release on a wonderful product, but they will never forget an inferior/incomplete product regardless of release date. In other words, I still believe Microsoft should have sacrificed time in order to perfect the system and avoid fix-ups altogether.)

in order to perfect the system

There is no such thing as a perfect system. Unix, MacOSX, Linux, Solaris, you name it, *all* have vulnerabilities and errors in the code.

There is *no* way around it when working with complex code. Microsoft only *seems* to have more because of the teeming masses that use it, and thus uncover them faster.

Are you saying you can account for errors in millions upon millions of possible hardware and software configurations? If so, then why arent you coding for them since you seem to criticize them so harshly for being human.

You would, that way you could bark about it even more.

I didn't say Vista was bug free. Let me rephrase for you: There are not enough known significant bugs/holes to justify SP1 right now. Having two service packs in a short-time frame would cause more grief than waiting for a single large SP when the server ships.

It seems obvious that MS got pinched and had to spill the beans on SP1 in order to stave off additional litigation. Keeping it quiet makes sense at this point, since they're trying to convince businesses to get off the fence and begin upgrade deployments. Talking to IT folks at other Fortune 100 companies, I still don't see many who are making concrete plans yet. Most are poking at it and trying to figure out what costs they'll save (to satisfy their CIO/CFO/CEO types). Knowing that SP1 is somewhat definite, they'll likely delay their deployment plans even more.

I don't like Vista and plan to use XP for a long while, but even I am glad to hear that a true SP is coming out for it by the end of the year.

No, Vista isn't crap, but for 5 years and 50 million lines of code, it's a big, fat disappointment by any measure. Remember, this is the first OS that has been marketed to consumers as disabling a variety of features with regard to media, virtualization, device-based licensing, and basic file copying. To date, Microsoft's own development tools don't work on Vista either!

Dell thought so little of Vista that not only are they still selling XP computers, but they're now selling Ubuntu systems. And don't forget that Vista’s launch had very limited impact on overall worldwide shipment demand during the first two quarters of 2007. Heck, Microsoft managed to sell 244 copies of Vista in China before it was cracked and widely pirated. Throw in the disastrous Office 2007 MS-OOXML file format and that several security firms found that Live OneCare missed far more active viruses than any other program tested, and that a lot of games (yes, and USB flash drives) don't work at all, then you've got a lot to be disappointed in.

To this day, no one can accurately interpret Microsoft's Vista EULA. Microsoft tech support says one thing while their web pages say another while their and "experts" are all over the map. If you tweak it properly, it's significantly better than XP, but in the end, Vista has neither resonated with nor excited customers.

And yet at launch its continued to outsell XP when XP launched.

You seam to have trolled all the bad/negative bits and left out everything else.

I use it ... I like it better than XP.

Dell thought so little of Vista that not only are they still selling XP computers, but they're now selling Ubuntu systems.

When hasn't dell sold past OSes shortly after a product launch? They've been flirting with Linux for quite some time, and if I am not mistaken, have sold it before this time as well.

Way to try to make a bigger issue out of that than it is.

It's not really outselling when it comes pre-installed on virtually every new PC. There are more PCs than in 2001, therefore Vista will "sell" more than the seemingly sufficient OS, XP.

Even Microsoft has been alarmed at the number of customers asking to "downgrade" their OS to XP from Vista on new systems, viz., business clients. That's a pretty big issue when customers don't want your latest, greatest.

Toolie, I'm sure your job in Microsoft's marketing department has been hell this year. I wouldn't want your job.

Even Microsoft has been alarmed at the number of customers asking to "downgrade" their OS to XP from Vista on new systems,

Really? Moreso than XP?

A lot of shops just recently *went* to XP. This is nothing new. The adoption rates in business are *always* slow.

Duh?

Toolie, I'm sure your job in Microsoft's marketing department has been hell this year. I wouldn't want your job.

1.) I don't work for MS in any capacity.

2.) Yes, you would want my job. :) But, you wouldn't last 10 minutes. It requires critical thinking skills.

XP went through the exact thing when it came out, no one wanted it, said it looked like a cartoon. Now its widely used and everyone is happy with it.

A lot of people didn't move to XP until SP1 came out as well, most likely Vista will be the same.

Yah thats because people want the new stuff. THere are still pcs you can buy new with xp on it. People choose not to.

Funny how you dont mention consumers.

I think Vista is amazing.. never had an issue with it what so ever.

People need to stop carrying on this VISTA IS CRAP non-sense. Its been out for almost 6 months now, give it a rest. I for one have never had any problems with Vista and I was on the private beta.

SP1 will just make it even better.

This is crap. Microsoft needs to work with its partners before they get into SP1. Some of us still can't even so much as install Vista.

http://cityofrain.com/?p=795

Microsoft needs to work with its partners

What do you want them to do, put a gun to their heads? They've had almost 2 years to get drivers ready.

I've never purchased an Intel Mainboard, but after hearing about your issues, I am thankful. Just as I'll never be a customer of Creative again because of their abhorrent driver support.

The monkeys are running the zoo. With the announcement that Microsoft has been doing "secret" patches you have to wonder who's doing what to whom.

this isn't really ground breaking news. Most people figured we would see SP1 in some form this year. This release coincides with their Longhorn server release - they are related.

Honestly SP1 will come out whenever it's done. Since Microsoft have no idea how to do anything on time it could be 2009 b4 it comes out.

I believe its a typo as vista sp1 beta is supposed to arrive in 2007.

rats someone already beat me to it

Um, why is the beta coming after the final version of the product? That doesn't make any sense.

"With a beta slated for the end of 2008, Vista users could see the final version of SP1 by the middle of next year."

It makes plenty of sense. That's a beta of SP1 not Vista.

Erm no it doesn't.

It's a mistake. Beta before the end of this year. Final version mid 08.

Well spotted. Just an editing mistake I suppose.

read then post. currently says beta for end of 2008, final come mid next year. should say beta end of 2007, final come mid next year.
in no way has anything to do with a non-SP1 date

When you sober up perhaps you'll finally be able to comprehend that Vista is COMPLETE, you know, like finished, done, no more, spent your wad...etc. SP1 is a SERVICE PACK, not a beta program for Vista. VISTA WAS OFFICALLY RELEASED ON JAN. 30TH OF 2007!!!

Can you read?

"With a beta slated for the end of 2008, Vista users could see the final version of SP1 by the middle of next year."

Read it again, slowly. The beta (of SP1) slated for end of '08, with the final version by mid-year '08. Meaning the final would hit before the beta.

Duhr....

Now comes the time when he changes his post to make himself look like less of a moron

I'm sorry but unless you're a Microsoft fan boy it really is not in anyone's best interest to purchase Vista. There are too many hardware and driver support issues with Vista right now. Third party companies and the internet as a whole are not rapidly embracing Vista. This will take time. I believe Vista is a great operating system and much better than any previous version but migrating to it right now will just be too big of a headache for most. Also contrary to Microsoft's plea's, one SHOULD wait until the release of SP1 for Vista. This is when I will get my copy. :)

I don't have a single issue on 4 computers that have been upgraded to Vista. The upgrade was painless and drivers all work fine.

Yeah right. The internet as a whole can not agree on anything. Give me a break. How many times do you post you are not having a problem with this or that.

I don't know what you talking about. All my hardware works on Vista, even on the 64 bits version.

Same here, all of my hardware works great on Vista.

Eh?? Dude, Vista RC1 ran without any hardware issues on my Media Center PC. It detected my 7.1 THX surround sound card, high-end video card, generic TV tuner, and some other off-the-wall items without any problems. If Vista can run on my machine, then it will run on most machines out there.

Actually, I don't think I've heard of anyone with hardware problems outside of the Nvidia and ipod issues. (I know Apple has fixed their problems and Nvidia has finally released an update).

All of mine works fine as well.

Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Pro drivers for vista need allot of work still as well..

Generally I have to say vista causes my system 30% slow down in benchmarks etc, till I get a new system it just is not worth the extra drm, lag etc...

Must be nice. I still cannot get Intel to post a RAID driver... Still. It's "Pending", and their support refuses to comment. If MS wants to make us adopt, they better start getting manufacturers in line.

http://cityofrain.com/?p=795

"All my hardware works on Vista..."
----------------------------------------------
As does mine. HP didn't have drivers for my All-in-one printer for a few months but there was a decent workaround till they came out with the Vista drivers which they notified me about.

Intel support sucks but it seems unlikely what you said.

So this is MS fault that Intel didn't release drivers for Vista?

I think we need to blame the government didn't make us all rich and famous.

I'm sorry, I don't speak RETARD. Why don't you grab a dictionary and try making some GRAMMATICAL sense before you post.

Eh?? Dude, come from under the rock you have been living under. When Vista was first released that was one of the main complaints: DRIVER ISSUES. Just because you and the other geeky nerds here haven't had many problems doesn't mean that has been the normal experience migrating to Vista.

I guess you've never seen any of the Apple ads poking fun at Microsoft for this very reason?

I guess you've never seen any of the Apple ads poking fun at Microsoft for this very reason?

Yeah. Cuz the Apple ads are obviously *the* source to go to for the "truth" about Microsoft.

*shakes head*

You drank the Kool-aid, didn't you?

What are you talking about ?
Vista 32/64bits are full supported by Intel Matrix Storage for both RAID and AHCI :

http://downloadcenter.in...Ss=All&submit=Go%21

Good point. Although I don't think the Creative issues was as far reaching as the Nvidiva problems.

There was a time when I thought Creative was one of the coolest hardware companies on earth. Now, I rarely consider them.

Funny, I have a site with 25 different Vista pc's used for development and not one driver issue. Why dont you stop being a troll and post when you've actually TRIED the product instead of relying on what your "cool" and "deviant" friends say.

Yes, because its microsoft's fault that vendors wont update their drivers. They cant put a gun to their head. Why dont YOU try pressuring them, that will do more than MS trying to do so will.

Awww, you poor thing. Im sorry your not as smart as the rest of us.

Im sorry your not as smart as the rest of us.

I'm and you're. Sheesh. :p

Wait, not using Vista makes one a deviant now?

Wow, the definition of that term is getting broader by the moment...

Vista works just about perfect for me the only thing i wish they would fix is when transfering to or from a memory card it seems to take a little while for the transfer to start.

There is NO SUCH THING as perfection...well down here at least!