lo espero

I am not happy with the MS dicission. I am simply against them, whats taking them to take such a long time to give the SP3? there are more then 200 patches & updates need after the release of SP2.....

Well, I will be thinking to s*** to LINUX for the time being........

In January I'll buy Windows Vista, so I don't care about WinXP SP3

"Q1 of 2008 ....so it makes sense to release it closer to Longhorn's timeframe"
"I'm in no rush for SP3 to show up"

Someone might want to check a calendar. Or maybe that is a more realistic date for Longhorn/Vista. 2006 - 2007 - 2008 Hey, after all, they're only one digit apart!

Evidently no one else is in a 'rush' either, as they are evidently busier redefining the word 'rush'! ;-)"
----------------
He meant Longhorn Server, which will require update to the kernel so that XP will support connecting to Longhorn Server Domains. Even Vista SP1 will be a major kernel update so that it will support Longhorn Server.

Perhaps Microsoft should start charging a fee for service packs. If you could get XP SP3 right now, wouldn't you pay a nominal fee for it?

Of course, I'm ready to pay the standard CD manufacturing and delivery cost (but I mean that the service pack itself should remain free of charge). Recently I have paid for delivery of Office 2007 beta and Vista beta/RC1 and I consider this normal. However, I have decided to stay with XP at least till Vista SP1 and, maybe, longer.

you know, I am now very tired of Microsoft that I am considering going over to Mac. I have been a computer technician and computer user for some 16 years now, even before internet. It seems that Microsoft's main objection is simply money and nothing more. Their sloppy work has proven that, but I also understand it is difficult to write software especailly when there is a hacker out there ready to ruin it all for you.

But their lack of concern for their present customers is really disturbing to me. Microsoft wishes to control your every use of your computer via many ways through software and I do not think they have that right after you purchase their product for a rediculous amount of money. Another things that disturbs me and does greatly, is you do not own that software, your only buying the rights to use it, but use it only with their permission to do so. I was told that myself via a rep from Microsoft. I also told the rep, how dare you people try to place others in computer slavery by controlling their every use on their computer.

Folks, I think it is time that each and every person who buys microsofts product to consider something else. I do not see Microsoft changing its mind on much of anything as far as control is concerned over their software. You have a right to use their software after you buy it, but keep in mind, you do not own it and that is where they get you. they fully intend on controlling people and how you use their software, and in my estimation, if you bought it, you should have the right to use it on any computer at any time you wish and also use it with any hardware you wish. But it seems that shall not be the case.

I have a great amount of doubt there shall ever be a sp3 for windows XP, as far as I am concerned that is a stall and ploy to force you to buy Vista, which is over priced and blown way out of proportion by Microsoft. Now I have not used Vista yet but I have seen it and read a great deal about it on many IT nets, and many many people are not happy with it and that makes me wonder why. Perhaps it is not as perfect as Microsoft implies.

Just my thoughts on this.....

Do you really think there is going to be anything special in SP3? It is probably not going to be much more than a glorified rollup...like most service packs. How is MS unconcerned with their present customers? Have they ceased releasing updates for XP? No. Heck, they still host the official updates for Win98...and Win98 users really couldn't be called MS's "present" customers. You can't expect support forever. If you want a rollup so bad, make a slipstream disc.

How does MS "wish to control every use of your computer"? What? By requiring you to actually pay per installation? Most software "requires" that. By your logic, buying one copy of a piece of software, you could install it on every machine on the planet if you "wished" to.

You want to use an OS on any piece of hardware, and that leads you to think OSX? Hahahaha!

Most people will use autopatcher.
But I think it is better if microsoft release the new windows cd with as many as possible patch included, even it is not a sp3.
By doing this it will make the microsoft name better. if not people will say that microsoft products are too old and too much bugs

Remember, even after Vista comes out, MS has still got Longhorn Server to finish (which will probably be released in tandem with Vista SP1), so that's where their development resources are going to be. As for XP, I don't see MS discontinuing SP3, but I also don't see any more service packs for XP after SP3.

I think wicketr brings up a very good point that in the era of broadband internet, the need for service packs somewhat diminishes, but it doesn't disappear. Service packs include fixes for much more than just security fixes--memory leaks, improper functionality, support for newer hardware to name a few. A service pack is more than just that. On an engineering level it's an evolution of a development target, of the platform. Where hotfixes and security fixes just patch the problems, a service pack merges those code alterations back into the primary platform branch (in this case you'd be merging post-SP2 code back into the SP2 branch to make SP3). So it's not just a matter of throwing the patched files into a big executable and releasing it. That's why hotfixes and security fixes are tagged as QFEs, or Quick-Fix Engineering patches (there are also GDRs, General Distribution Releases, but AFAIK, these are just QFEs that have been thoroughly tested). The development of a service pack is ensuring that those code fixes work well together and don't break APIs or make the system unstable.

But beyond all the reasons behind the delay, it's still unacceptable. Three and half years between service packs, Vista or not, just doesn't show MS's current customers the respect they deserve.

QFEs are cumulative updates and GDRs generally address only the specific issue at hand.

When 2008 rolls around, watch for the announcment of the cancellation of SP3. "We've listened to our customers and determined they do not another service pack so we'll be offering this half-assed security roll-up instead." They did it with NT 4 SP7 and then again with Windows 2000 SP5, I don't doubt one bit they'll end up doing it again with XP. Funny that XP has been out far longer than any other version of Windows yet it hasn't even gotten past SP2.

Sounds like a pretty accurate prediction to me.

and stopped support for SP1 already

Funny that XP has been out far longer than any other version of Windows yet it hasn't even gotten past SP2.

Funny, I thought Win2K, WinME, Win98/98SE, Win95, Win3.1, etc... were out before WinXP. Silly me, I should've known XP was first.

...

All those NOT upgrading to Vista raise your hands! (moi)

here, here

not gana do it

Definitely not. I already started moving my company over to OSX over the summer. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time -- it's impossible to ignore the fact that Microsoft doesn't have the best interests of it's customers at heart. Microsoft has been on a downward spiral for years now and we're not willing to follow. We have our own customers to look after.

I am pretty much convinced that I won't consider migrating our 5000+ XP users to Vista until *at least* SP1 is out and we've had a chance to see Longhorn in more detail. The jury is out. We have far too many specialized apps that either WILL NOT run on other OS's or simply don't justify migrating to another OS only to employ VM solutions to reverse back. Too costly to deploy and maintain. XP may not be the ideal platform, but it's the "best fit" for our needs and until Vista proves it's better (in terms of features AND costs) we're not going there.

I may not buy or use a new app from MS again. They just release everything with to many bugs now and they have been for years!

" MacDonald suggested that vendors instead recognize the positive benefits of Microsoft's architectural changes, and simply change their plans."

That will rank right up there with the "it's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature" remark.

Q1 of 2008 is fine. SP3 was always meant to include some Longhorn compatibility updates, so it makes sense to release it closer to Longhorn's timeframe (if it holds true). I would though like to see a post-SP2 security rollup released before then. I'm in no rush for SP3 to show up, but a rollup would be great.

"Q1 of 2008 ....so it makes sense to release it closer to Longhorn's timeframe"
"I'm in no rush for SP3 to show up"

Someone might want to check a calendar. Or maybe that is a more realistic date for Longhorn/Vista. 2006 - 2007 - 2008 Hey, after all, they're only one digit apart!

Evidently no one else is in a 'rush' either, as they are evidently busier redefining the word 'rush'! ;-)

Why can't they wait for SP4 to put in their Vista junk?

2006 to 2008 is a standard MS Week, what's wrong with that? =P

ha ha ha ha

Lets see. We are now in 2006, right? They release Vista early in 2007, right? That means they need over a year to get a service pack out for XP. The obvious conclusion is that they expect so many bugs in Vista that they will have their hands full all of next year.

Recommendation: Stay with XP.

That's EXACTLY what I'm suspecting... they anticipate Vista Gold to suck a giant, flaming pile of manure, and they will spend 2007 working on SP1.

well i do like MS products, but they way thinga are looking i may end up switching to lunix as my main OS. i will not jump into vista right away and dont plan too for quite some time, if they stop supporting XP they can kiss my a** goodbye

This is pathetic. How many years are we supposed to wait for a service pack? Sounds like another ploy to encourage people to run out and buy Vista. Well if this is the best they can do as far as their OS support they can jump off a cliff and die. I will NEVER buy another product from Microsoft.

Why the panic? What exactly are you looking forward to in SP3? Is SP2 causing problems for you?

That problem is 100+ security patches to install from a fresh install.

It'd be nice to have a service pack that includes all those fixes.

"..buy another product from Microsoft." buy? face it people just get Fedora Core 5 as your primary OS and duel boot xp for all us gamers out there.

...just get Fedora Core 5 as your primary OS...
I'll use a linux distribution as my primary OS when I don't have to recompile the kernal to update graphics drivers so that the mouse cursor (of the 2-button ball mouse on my test system) can be seen. Until Linux has come that far, it will only reside in a VM on my primary machine.

(No really, its fun trying to update you graphics drivers from a desktop where your only clue where your mouse cursor is is to see what highlights on the screen...only to find out you either forgot to include the source in the install, or really don't want to go hunting to find out where it is.)

You could just slipstream them.

That's why you do updating from the command line and not from the desktop

ReactOS is sounding better and better all the time. What happened to the Microsoft that made six service packs for Visual Studio 6.0?

Lol @ ReactOS. Have fun using only paint and calculator.

React has come a long way. It's not perfect, but it will play many games and run many apps written for 98, ME, 2k, and XP. I have played with it a few times, but it's not my cup of tea.

might as well leave it till thye retire windows XP or at least till they will stop making updates for it. by 2008 most users will be on Vista sense you know MS when a new OS comes out they stop supporting the old one. look at 2000 most progra,s you find these days from MS don't work on it.

hi KHoldStare,

I'm only aware of free programs being made by Microsoft (IE7) that don't work with Win2K. I suppose their security center applications as well. What ones are you referring to? Maybe office 2007?

Thanks,
Christian

Correction, most people will be using linux or mac os x. Haha, can only wish right.

Vista is getting some bad press as of late. From anti competitive "features" to everything that vista has being available for xp in some fashion. YOu know whats sad is after using vista's rc's and beta's for several months. Going back to xp felt good. All software works with it its fast and driver support is great.

I agree, I used RC1 for a week and going back to XP never felt better. The interface in Vista is simply too clumsy and cluttered, the new Windows Explorer is just terrible. I wouldn't use Vista if Bill Gates came to my house and gave me an autographed copy.

The Windows XP interface lets you do everything slower. Windows needed a major interface change. Who wants to stick with a version of Windows 95's inefficient Explorer interface that was just ported over to Windows NT? Luna is just the Windows 95 Explorer interface with new colors.

I used Vista 64 with my 64x2 and it was 1,000x slower that XP Pro 32. I even tried the 32bit version of Vista and it was just slow and junky to put it nicely.

This is lame, another 2 years?

No. Another year and three months.

But yeah... that's kinda lame. Oh well.

Will someone please explain what is sooo difficult about making a service pack if its just going to have all previous updates since sp2 in it? I mean sp2 took time cause they wanted to make changes and add features. you know sp3 isnt going to do that.

So this is just laziness in my opinion. There is no legitimize reason not to release a service pack. For every previous nt based os they did on a regular basis. windows 2000 had 4, nt 4 had 6. So wtf?

See its all about customer service and microsoft doesn't see its customers they see dollar signs and thas it. They would piss on every one of us and they do on a regular basis simply because they can.

Hell, Neowin and Hotfix.com both demonstrate that service pack compilation isn't exactly rocket science....

Microsoft is going to be backporting Vista's new Aero interface to Windows XP. Is this going to be part of Windows XP's Service Pack 3 or is this going to be a separate download from XP's Service Pack 3?

"Microsoft is going to be backporting Vista's new Aero interface to Windows XP"

Why would anyone want this crap? It's slow and isn't worth the time. How does it help? What function will it improve on? How will it help in everyday life? Will it save me time any or money?
Um, no, there is no practical use for it!

Unfortunately I have to be patient and wait for XP SP3.
I hate Vista.
Will never buy it and will never use it.

now, you're sooo cooool... can I be your friend?

Lol... people said that about XP. What are you going to do? Wait until Blackcomb? lol

I'm assuming of course that you aren't going to switch to Linux or Mac in that time. If you switch to Linux, then I guess you won't miss Vista or XP. :-)

"people said that about XP."

no they didn't,
most people i know were very excited to get their hands on XP, including me. Vista's not the same upgrade XP was.

Have you heard about Vista's awful licensing terms? Microsoft is trying to tell me that I can only perform one major hardware change on my computer and then I have to buy another license if I make another major hardware change because Vista thinks it's running on a new computer. Microsoft is also saying you can't run the Vista editions that will be most commonly used in a virtual machine. Ridiculous!

Agreed! The reaction to XP excellent. Heck, I used the beta for six months before the release as my primary OS. The buzz on XP was that it was a great release and a major OS upgrade and the betas bore out that thinking. The reaction to Vista is far different and with very good reason.

Just another good reason to tell MS to shove it!

Everyone wanted XP! No one wants Vista ( well almost no one ).

I can't even imagine how many fixes you will need to install by 2008. if you just happen to have an xp install disc with sp2 don't even mention those with rtm or sp1 installed. It's going to be a nightmare and most people have no clue how to slipstream updates.

Now add ie7 download and whatever else if you don't have broadband you might as well leave your computer alone for about a week so it can update.

Microsoft is doing as little as possible and what it is doing is trying to do everything they can to make money. Vista priority for example. IE7 was to catch up with firefox and fix the jugular wound that is ie6. It's all about their rep on security and making sure they get paid. ie7 will be no different then 6 it will still have security problems every month. I have no doubt people are laughing and baulking at Microsoft wondering what the heck they are thinking with half the stuff they do.

They really do have no right to be making the kind of money they are. If symantec or mcafee made decisions like this they would be bankrupt in a month. But thanks to their monopoly position they can't be touched. No matter what they do.

Heck I am surprised microsoft is going to release a sp3 at all. I would think a year after vista is relased support for xp would be thrown out. So they can "concentrate" all efforts on developing the next version of windows and ie8 slated for a 2012 release rigth?

Neeeeed the patches rolled up. I counted 62 patches post-SP2. Prolly looking at double that at least by 2008 :X

Yeah, an Update Rollup package would sure be nice :P

I'm really hoping they decide to revert their previous decision and include IE7 & WMP11 with XPSP3.

May very well have IE 8 and WMP 12 by then. In any case, has any major OS ever gone 4 years between service packs? Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to roll one together to release concurrently with Vista.

No thanks. Dont infest my PC with an even more bloated Media Player and that crappy interface known as IE7. Windows media player 6.4 works just fine.

I'm more concerned with them pulling an SP7 for NT4.0 again... or an SP5 for Windows 2000.... hmm, I'm noticing a trend here... Guess that means we shouldn't count on an SP1 for Vista.

"Oh, we'll release a cumulative update up through 3 months ago, and then leave you to your own methods for the rest."

WMP6.4 would imply that you don't even have XP, so what the hell do you care?

Windows for Workgroups 3.12 is coming out any week now.

Hey, computers are complicated. Do you know what mainframe operators in the 70's had to do? Cut Microsoft some slack. Running a computer isn't like flying a plane, there are a lot of things to worry about and it requires a lot of expertise to utilize such advanced technology.

Crappy interface: maybe; less of a web design headache: definatley.

"it requires a lot of expertise to utilize such advanced technology."

then release some code and let others do it.

FYI ... WMP v6.4 is actually included with Windows XP. Run the mplayer2.exe file
inside the Windows Media Player folder ... lo and behold, up pops WMP v6.4!

Ever since "Windows Update" came about the need for service packs is deminishing. Back in the day you had to order a CD of the stuff or download everything individually.

A service pack was needed to bundle everything as one release to help the user install it all at the same time. With Windows Update, you don't really need to install everything one at a time. It creates a "service pack" on the fly of what you need installed.

XP development is over. There isn't going to be anything major in the next one like SP2. The only stuff left is little bug fixes here and there. And Windows Update does that. At which point what's the need of having an "official service pack"?

Haha! Right...I need to remember That one! ;-)

WMP 6.4 is also the only version of Windows Media player that works with the Firefox (I mean Netscape) plugin that Microsoft released. That's probably why WMP 6.4 is still there.

Hmmmmmm....free release of XPSP3 or $400 for Vista Fill-The-Corporate-Coffers-Edition? Yeah, that ain't gonna happen.

I agree, the only reason Windows stays so buggy for so long is that hardly anyone sees the code. They treat it like it's the Pentagon Papers. That what makes switch to a Linux type system desirable. Everyone can see the code and make updates on the spot. Updating becomes faster and more efficient.