RSSZune Has Too Many Issues to Compete
By Ed Oswald | Published December 8, 2006, 6:31 PM
REVIEW After watching Apple and its ubiquitous iPod dominate the digital music industry largely from the sidelines, Microsoft has decide to tackle the market leader head on with the introduction of the Zune. And the Zune player takes a lot of cues from the iPod.
Microsoft learned the hard way that the top-down symbiotic relationship between the iTunes and iPod and its benefits are what made Apple so successful. Additionally, it understood the simplicity of the device itself and its user interface were of critical importance.
Thus, a lot of the Zune is -- for lack of a better word -- copied from Apple. However, the player's few differences are where Microsoft hopes to draw in the consumer. Microsoft wants to make digital music a social experience, and these features set it apart from the crowd.
But the question remains: Is the social aspect of the Zune enough to make it a viable alternative, or is this just yet another false alarm in a string of supposed "iPod killers" that barely left a scratch on the face of the seemingly unbeatable device?
At first look, Zune looks much like the iPod, although with a larger screen and smaller scroll wheel. The problem is the "directional pad" as Microsoft likes to call it doesn't scroll at all. Instead its used more like the navigation on an old Nintendo controller.
Even though the user interface on the Zune is probably one of the best available, and better than the iPod in my opinion, it is crippled by this shortcoming. I found the directional pad not very user intuitive, initially requiring guesses as how to get the device to do what I want.
A scroll wheel here or some equal function would have really set this apart. Instead, an archaic method of navigation cheapens a beautiful UI, and that's a shame.
Other decisions, such as the blocky look of the device and its weight -- about the same as a second-generation iPod, made in 2002 -- left me thinking that while the software itself may have been carefully thought out, the hardware seemed to be rushed in an effort to get the Zune to market. A questionable decision to say the least.
The Zune features a much larger screen than the iPod, three inches versus 2.5 inches, although both share a common resolution at 320x240. Microsoft's marketers claim the Zune's screen is better, but I could not see any appreciable difference that wasn't more a function of video encoding than display quality. Regardless, the bigger screen still made videos easier to watch - especially longer ones.
On the software side, the user interface works quite well, and album art is displayed much more prominently on the Zune screen than on the iPod. Whereas the iPod shows album covers in a small half-inch box, the cover art on the Zune takes up about 75 percent of the "now playing" screen.
There's a problem though. Microsoft isn't prepared here, and the album artwork used is resized-up, resulting in a blurred image. Apparently this is being fixed, but why not do it before you release the device?
Missing from the device UI are any extras. Only available were an FM radio, video support, pictures, and music. Compared with the iPod, it's missing podcast support, games, calendaring, notes, audiobook support, and the host of extras added with fifth-generation iPods.
I'm not sure whether this can be chalked up to the fancy transitions or less functionality requiring less memory, but one big positive for the Zune is it seemed to respond faster when loading videos, transitioning through menus, or listening to music.
Zune also seemed to perform better in producing bass then the iPod. I've noticed with the iPod that using the equalizer to produce better bass, in many tracks -- especially electronic -- distorts the response. The Zune seemed to handle this far better. I was very impressed with the overall audio quality of the Zune.
Installation of the Zune is fairly straightforward, but struck me as convoluted and unfinished. First you must go through a lengthy installation process to prepare Windows XP with the necessary drivers, which can take anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes. After that, the Zune must check for updates and download a new version of its firmware, a strange requirement for a device that just came out.
Although the firmware update went off without a hitch, as did the driver install, the process was quirky and not very user friendly, with instructions that weren't very clear.
Zune's desktop software is a mixed bag. While creating a one-stop shop for users of the device a la iTunes is a good approach, its far less functional than Apple's offering. While the software will allow you to upload pictures and videos from your own collection, there is no support to actually download them from the marketplace.
Also missing? Podcast support (getting them on to Zune is a process a bit complicated for the non-technical user) and audiobook support. The desktop interface is quite plain; in fact, I found it too simplistic. It's also still quite buggy: at one point I had to restart the software to get songs to copy to the Zune.
The Marketplace experience itself feels like a far less functional version of Microsoft's URGE service, which launched just last year. Morever, the "social" is not in effect here. Where's the functionality to send a song to another Zune user? I can't figure out what the purpose of the "Inbox" - neither on the device nor in the software.
Unlike Apple, Microsoft sells songs not by dollars but using a points system. This is an absolute joke, as the true cost of a download is masked by the fact that $1 doesn't equal 100 points. In fact, it equals about 80 points. So looking at prices, you think you're getting a better deal, but you're not. It's no cheaper than iTunes. If you're going to use "points" why not make 1 point equal 1 dollar?
After Microsoft's kowtow to Universal, one is led to wonder: is Redmond doing this to hide the oft-expressed desire by the recording industry to implement variable pricing for digital downloads?
Where URGE excels, the Zune Marketplace fails. Again, everything feels so half-baked, rushed to completion. Those switching from that music service are going to be let down, no doubt about it.
Another problem here is Microsoft's attempt to tie in other services, leaving much more chance for something to go wrong. Well, it did. I am unable to download any explicit content, and instead get an error about my family settings not allowing me to. I am the main account, and well over the age of 18.
A call to Zune Customer Service -- if you can call it that -- was a complete disaster. Not only was the outsourced representative so hard to understand I often had him repeating things three or four times, he showed a complete lack of understanding for the problem.
I don't know if I was either becoming noticeably frustrated, or he was just too unprepared, but I was transferred to another representative. She proceeded to tell me I could cancel my account and reregister. But here's the kicker: I would have forfeited my free trial.
So here I sit, with a problem that has been "escalated to Microsoft" but with no promise of a resolution, with a half-working service.
On top of this, the PlaysForSure issues are not gone with Zune DRM, I can speak on that from experience. Several times now through the main Zune Marketplace software, I've had issues with songs not playing because Zune marketplace couldn't find the rights. In the end, it's abundantly clear this software has a long, long way to go.
The Zune is a major step forward for Microsoft but it seems like the company forgot to look at (or beta test) the entire experience from the most important perspective: the consumer's.
The Good: Zune's device software and graphical user interface were well thought out, and do separate it from the iPod rather than copy it, like Creative attempted to do with the Zen Vision:M. Bravo to Microsoft on this.
The Bad: It's clear Microsoft rushed the Zune out of the gate in an attempt to get it out for the holidays. The design of the unit just feels very unrefined, prototype-like almost. What does Apple know that Microsoft didn't which causes the device to be almost twice as thick? I also don't understand the decision to release the Zune Marketplace with just audio support after touting video as a major feature of the player. Add on top of this the issues with the store and software itself, and the whole Zune experience somewhat of a letdown.
The Bottom Line: I cannot in good faith recommend this product in its current form to anyone also considering an iPod. Those averse to Apple products and looking for a new Windows-only player should definitely consider the Zune, but understand there are quite a few kinks Microsoft has left to work out. All in all, the Zune is a disappointment. A moral victory for Microsoft, yes. An iPod killer? Absolutely not.
Microsoft's Zune and Apple's 30GB iPod side by side:
I am sick of all of these iPod fanboys out there who are brainwashed or programed by apple to work as sales-people for the Ipod. It is pretty sad. I have done a 16 minute presentation giving a side-by-side comparison between the iPod and the Zune. People: compare the ACTUAL features and specs... not looks. Looks are subjective. iPod people are going to say iPod's look better.. plain and simple. Zune owners are going to argue that the Zune is more sturdy and is scratch resistant. Those kinds of things are all subjective. I just ask you to look at the facts, the differences that really matter between the two. I have chosen the Zune. The iPod has its ups and downs as well. I'm not saying it's bad. It's a matter of preference. Let the people who want to buy the Zune, buy the Zune, and those who want the iPod, buy the iPod.
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|Microsoft is just one vendor among many in this market. Same thing for Apple. Personally, I don't care for either of them. I have a Samsung that can handle both protected and unprotected music, and it behaves just like a normal hard drive when I hook it up. No fancy sync software or bloated transfer wizard. Just copy, paste, listen, enjoy! It has surround sound with bass boost that sounds awesome, and it costs less than half of what you'd spend on the equivalent IPod. Samsung has made digital music fun and easy for me. I'm still trying to figure out why people accept lower quality from higher priced players.
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|Future Zune Plans
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/zunestory.asp
Another feature that I would love to see in the Zune. Compatibility with XBox Live TV/Movie downloads. If I could plug the Zune in and use it's bigger HDD to store TV shows and movie rentals from XBox Live Marketplace and be able to watch them on either device. Let's see it happen MS.
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|I was thinking that too. That could very easily get me to upgrade to a Zune at somepoine and give my ipod to my wife.
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|Just look at that clunky huge brick. Zune suks azz period.
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|That picture says it all. The zune would be great if it was year 2000, but the simple fact is the zune looks a lot like microsoft does as a company in general. That would be ugly, no style, has its flaws and was rushed. Let's not forget the feel, size and everything else is just odd. I would not use a zune even if someone bought me one. In fact I would sell it on ebay, and get the latest ipod video.
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|http://news.com.com/2300-1041-6142094.html
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|What's next... "Have You Seen Me?" pictures of Zunes on milk cartons? :)
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|Simply put, I love my Zune, and wouldn't trade it for an iPod if someone offered to buy one for me.Yes, MS has alot of work ahead in refining the online store to include video etc, but that's not something that should keep someone from considering a Zune.Functionality,build quality, and sound/video quality are the main thing i looked for and found in the Zune that i couldn't find (all) in an iPod.I especially found the iPod's build and sound quality lacking for the price Apple has the nerve to charge.The feel of an iPod is downright cheap compared to the rock solid Zune.
The petty things mentioned in this review should be able to easily be corrected in future firmware updates to the Zune.I'm not worried, i can easily get all my music and video on my Zune and enjoy every moment i spend watching and listening to them.
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|So many coments about how Microsoft has had all this time to come up with something better but many of you forget that Microsoft wanted to originaly let other companies to be the competition hence plays for sure but these other companies haven't realy done anything to become real competition to the ipod so Microsoft hasn't realy had that much time devoted to creating to this type of device so give it a gerneration or two.
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|This is a bad review...
"At first look, Zune looks much like the iPod, although with a larger screen and smaller scroll wheel. The problem is the "directional pad" as Microsoft likes to call it doesn't scroll at all. Instead its used more like the navigation on an old Nintendo controller."
Clearly it doesn't scroll. It's NOT a scroll wheel! Don't call it that just cause that's what Apple calls their round thing scrolls. Microsoft didn't make a scroll wheel! The "beautiful UI", as you call it, and a scroll wheel are incompatible. You have to be able to go left and right to switch to the different categories (artist, genre, etc.), and up and down to scroll. That's how it is in Vista Media Center. Makes complete sense to me! This is a Microsoft Product not an Apple product.
Second: "I can't figure out what the purpose of the "Inbox" - neither on the device nor in the software."
Read the manual. It comes with one doesn't it?
Third: "After that, the Zune must check for updates and download a new version of its firmware, a strange requirement for a device that just came out." The PS3 had a firmware update ready for it when it came out to take it to v1.2. And they released 1.3 within a couple weeks.
For everyone complaining about proprietary formats. The Zune can play your pirated or legal unprotected MP3s. The Zune's downloaded songs are protected-WMAs, which from what I've read but never experience cause I don't have an iPod, are a better encoding than AAC. I've actually began using WMAs for my own ripping just because it seems to keep a better range of frequencies at lower bit rates than MP3s.
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|"After that, the Zune must check for updates and download a new version of its firmware, a strange requirement for a device that just came out."
I'll add to that and say no, not unusual at all... especially in light of the reviewer's negative comments on the shortcomings of the device itself, such as album art handling and UI extras.
For those very reasons noted in the article, and for so many more that we cannot think of, I would definitely hope there is a feature that immediately checks for updates to address such issues out of the box, hopefully providing a better end-user experience of the product.
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|Why would anyone buy a Zune who has an iPod? Then you cannot play any of your Apple based music unless you burn it to CD First and then Re-Rip it back to the computer.
Microsoft will always be 2nd best. Apple makes better everything period.
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|I am sorry but I don't think everyone uses DRM music from the Apple Store like you do. Many people still prefer the music that are DRM-free and most do NOT use iTunes. Not being able to play Apple Store music on a Zune is NOT Microsoft problem, it is Apple Store problem.
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|The sales figures and revenues generated by the iTunes Store completely nullifies your post.
And I'm tired of people blaming Apple for selling DRMed music. Why don't you blame the RIAA for forcing Apple to implement FairPlay in the first place?
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|Well if you don't use DRM music then you are downloading it illegally. So, you're breaking the law.
Sure, I used to download tons of "free" music on WinMX but since the law was put in place I deleted all that I downloaded and started a new collection with iTunes.
I actually love iTunes. The only music I have that doesn't have DRM are my own CD's that I've ripped.
Enjoy your jail time. :)
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|Wow you're a role model for all of use. You went and deleted all your FREE illegally downloaded music and started paying way too much for new music.
Thank you for sharing that with us. I'm sure the police will tick you off their "People to jail for downloading songs illegally" list
Mate if you even think you can get arrested for downloading music you are so very very wrong.
RIAA goes for the companies that provide the service, not for the hundreds of millions of individuals who download the illegal music.
Think before you post.
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|not arrested but fined yes...you are naive if you really think stealing music will not get you into trouble...
http://www.wired.com/new...od/0,1412,63263,00.html
granted these are old but go ahead look up riaa and sue you will find plenty of hits for people not businesses or the company that is giving the service
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|lmao by ur name im not insinuating anything, but macs not better. then again thats an opinion. macs got the world brain washed. i used to have ipods 6 to be exact. now youd think y would i change. there a dictating market. they think they can run everything and be hot shot. like u said on the music deal. that sucks cus u bought that with ur money so it should be urs. shouldnt it?
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|"in Elektra v. Schwartz, an RIAA case against a Queens woman with Multiple Sclerosis who indicates that she had never even heard of file sharing until the RIAA came knocking on her door, the judge held that Ms. Schwartz's summary judgment request for dismissal was premature because the RIAA said it had a letter from AOL 'confirm[ing] that defendant owned an internet access account through which copyrighted sound recordings were downloaded and distributed.' When her lawyers got a copy of the actual AOL letter they saw that it had no such statement in it, and asked the judge to reconsider."
-Slashdot
Don't go after individuals??? Like hell they don't.
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|"Well if you don't use DRM music then you are downloading it illegally."
There are some sites that you can buy DRM free music.
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|"Microsoft will always be 2nd best. Apple makes better everything period."
You are a living proof of Apple's marketing prowess.
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|Wow.
Cuz it's like, so hard to rip a CD to MP3 and throw it on yer iPod, right?
Assuming all non-DRM'd music is illegal is just dumb, dude. You didn't even think before you posted that. Shame.
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|Amen...
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|No, Apple makes better drones. Like you.
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|Anything that's remotely Microsoft has to be utter crap ( just look at some of their half-baked operating systems ) so why bother with a Zune?. If you absolutely, definitely can't do without a Windows compatible device ( poor sod ) Creative is better.
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|That's what you call biased, if anybody didn't know.
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|I used this for 2 days and had horrible format support issues from get go till i took it back, spent a little extra and got this beast,
http://www.topfield-aust...u/product.asp?SKU=TFP20
Check the specs.
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|Sexy machine, indeed! :)
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|I was considering looking at the Zune to replace my aging iPod Mini until MS announced the European launch date will probably be Q4-07/Q1-08, so I just went out and bought a new iPod Nano because I really can't wait until then, but then again, I may get a Zune when its available in the UK.
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|Devices with anything remotely even 'resembling' DRM, all suck horse balls. They'll never see a penny from me. The biggest mistake I ever made was blindly jumping in and buying the Sony MP3 player BEFORE i realized the f*cking piece of sh*t required "software" to convert to Sony's proprietary format .oga or something. I hate stupid POORLY written bloated software that installs stupid drivers and services just to put a g** d*** mp3 on whatever kind of device. RIDICULOUS.
Thank goodness I can still use this $350 (at the time I bought it) device as a USB stick to store just any kind of data.
iPod, Zune, all proprietary encrypted music formats = garbage. Where's the device where I can plug it in, dump my .mp3's on it, unplug it and LISTEN to them immediately? Where is that?
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|c4p0ne wrote: "Where's the device where I can plug it in, dump my .mp3's on it, unplug it and LISTEN to them immediately? Where is that?"
:) It's called an iPod. What makes you think the iPod is proprietary. It plays all of the following: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV. So line up your mp3s, dump them on your iPod, and start enjoying your music immediately.
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|:)
...and, if you prefer to use Winamp instead of iTunes, there's a few included plugins for portables (iPod included) to make the transer easy. However, there is a better iPod plugin for Winamp here:
http://www.mlipod.com/
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|I never had an iPod, after my experience with Sony I vowed never to buy another device. But still, don't you need that Bullsh*t a$$ iTunes junk to do stuff with your ipod?? I wan't to use the device like a USB stick, drag and drop music files to it and boom, they play. No BS software required. If thats the case then iPod is the only choice.... BUT... BUT, I still wouldn't get an iPod because everyone I know around here (which i just remembered) had bad experiences with theirs ... So f it screw apple too.
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|You can also do the same with the Zune... so what's the difference?
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|good link, thx.
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|The Ipod is proprietary because the only place you can buy online music with drm in it is from ITunes. The Zune is also proprietary because of the same reason, you can only use Zune Marketplace purchased mp3s on it......vs. other music players which use playforsure, an unwilling albeit successful standard to date which many other mp3 players use, allowing music enthusiasts to join a host of services and switch as they feel like it.
I think the only mp3 players out there that you can't drag and drop music to are Sony mp3 players....in which case if he'd just done a little research before buying, he would have known.
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|LOL...you're too funny. I'd suggest you do a bit of research and then jump in and try another player. I highly recommend Creative players (Zen, Zen Vision, etc.). It works just like you want, it sets itself up like a little hard drive and you can drag music, movies etc. to it. I also recommend Toshiba players, they're really nice also and don't require software. All of these players come with software to make it easier to sync music and lists, but if you just want to drag and drop - you can do that too. The newest Ipods are really not that bad. If you hate and will never use drm music, then one of the newgen Ipods shouldn't let you down. But if you like the idea of subscription music (paying 15 dollars for unlimited gigs of music), then I'd highly rec. a playforsure player or the MS Zune.
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|I have used Creative products for many years very happily. I own 2 MP3 players that have cost me about $150 for the pair. I find the sound quality to be very satisfactory and as I use rechargeable batteries, the cost of said element to be acceptable. I don't see the need for watching video on a postage stamp size screen as it loses all subtlety and nuance as well as definition. I am older too so I don't need the additional eye strain.
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|"Where's the device where I can plug it in, dump my .mp3's on it, unplug it and LISTEN to them immediately? Where is that?"
At the store. It's called an iPod.
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|He ment plug and play... without needing any software like iTunes. Like the iAudio X5, which you just plug it in and it shows up as a drive. Without needing to install anything (no drivers, software or anything) and drag your mp3's to it and the X5 can play it. No DRM attatched to it at all.
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|He ment plug and play... without needing any software like iTunes to transfer your music. What makes the iPod propietary is that you need iTunes to put your music on it and you can't take it back off or put it on any other computer (not even your wife's laptop). I know there's way's around it, but you still need more softtware for that too.
My point (and I think his) is that he wanted to just plug in the MP3 player, have it show up as a removable drive (without installing any software, drivers or anything) and just drag is MP3's to it and play that on the MP3 player.
The best player I found that can do this is the iAudio X5 (I have the 60gb).
Here are some of the features I can think of off hand:
- Plug-in Play
- MP3 (vbr), WMA (vbr), Ogg (best codec out there, in my opinion), Flac and Wav support
- [A Decent] FM Radio
- 96db SNR sound quality (better than the iPod, and has a bit more bass and better equalizers)
- Plus more, I just can't think of them right now.
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|" It works just like you want, it sets itself up like a little hard drive and you can drag music, movies etc. to it."
Really? You don't need any software or drivers to transfer music to it? I used to have a Nomad Jukebox 3 (which was a while a go). With the JB3 you could also use it as a storage device, but you had to use a specific program to transfer the MP3's to play on the JB3.
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|Yes, from a DRM standpoint, the iPod is proprietary. I have to admit though... the iTunes Store is nice. Even if I had the choice of any available online music store, I would still probably gravitate back to iTunes.
But I do empathize. Choice is always better, and I usually tend to shy away from anyone that takes that choice from me initially.
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|Zune's biggest problem is not software and interface but a saturated market. Many media/mp3 players have been on the market for years. They came into the market too late. Period.
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|Agree with Natrunner. Also, MS doesnt have a good hardware track record, which means if the Zune doesn't go well, I expect to see them drop it like a hot potato in 2 or 3 years (see MS networking products), leaving everyone who buys the Zune in the dust. I want to buy one, but I'm forced to wait to see if it catches on or not.
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|Basic rule to win:
First, cheapest, or best.
Zune doesn't seem to fit any of the above.
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|"A call to Zune Customer Service -- if you can call it that -- was a complete disaster. Not only was the outsourced representative so hard to understand I often had him repeating things three or four times, he showed a complete lack of understanding for the problem."
That will kill the product faster than anything else. No product is perfect, so good support is a must and bad support will damage the brand (see Dell).
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|Keep in mind that not every tech is created equal.
Hopefully this was the one incompetent.
At the first sign of trouble, I'd have asked to be transferred, or would have called back. At that point, you could have gotten a better picture. If the next tech was just as inept, we've got issues.
But one tech out of possibly hundreds is just a bad coincidence.
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|I've dealt with a lot of Microsoft support people over the last year and it's not an encouraging experience. I've received answers that ranged from incorrect all the way to completely unrelated to the problem.
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|Which pretty much is the exact opposite of my experience, and most of my calls have been to the non fee-based "installation" support queue.
Hell, for a week they even called me back at least once a day trying to get a hold of me to solve the issue.
Pretty much par for anecdotal evidence. We'd need an actual unbiased study from millions of support calls to be able to make anything resembling a valid judgment of the product based purely on support.
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|I'm sure someone will conduct that study, although these days it's hard to find an "unbiased" study. Most are paid for by the companies themselves and that's about as useful as the wireless feature on a Zune. ;o)
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|"...about as useful as the wireless feature on a Zune."
Which, incidentally, is what the Inbox on the Zune is for.
It was understandable that Mr. Oswald couldn't figure out what it was for. :)
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|"and that's about as useful as the wireless feature on a Zune."
Actually I think that sounds like a good idea. That's what I've been trying to do with my current MP3 player... well not wirelessly with friends. But I've been trying to find playlists and stuff (like on Yahoo!'s music service) to try to figure out new artist's that I may not of heard of.
But now someone could be like, "hey, I recommend this song/album" and he can just send it to me on the Zune and I can see if I actually like it or not. I'd buy the CD though if I liked it. I wouldn't download it on any service like iTunes or Marketplace.
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|I'm going to wait before getting one. Once I get the option to customize the skin (outter shell) then I'll be more ready for it. Looking for the same kind of thing like they did with Xbox 360, customizing the faceplates - it was a hot idea.
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|Obviously a totally Apple-biased review... the reviewer doesn't seem to understand what a first generation device versus a fifth generation device is.
Do you remember when the first iPod was released? How it compares with Zune?
If we talk about half-baked or rush-to-completion products, how about iTunes 7? It is the crappiest version of software I have in my computer. iTunes 7.0 kept crashing, 7.0.1 never installed, 7.0.2 improves, but still crashes from time to time... for me, that's half-baked and rushed-to-completion (even after 7 versions!!!) while Zune is in version 1.0
Summary: A totally biased review... I expected a more serious review from BetaNews.
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|Here's the problem with your comment. Because Microsoft is entering the music player race so late, it doesn't have the luxury of releasing a first generation device to compete with a fifth-generation iPod. Microsoft copies others very well. Certainly, it could've taken extra time in the "labs" to develop a player that offers an experience equal to or better than a 5th generation iPod. Yes, I agree, the first generation iPod was "worse" than the Zune, but that was FIVE years ago.
Come on, Microsoft. You've had five years to get something together that would be on par with the iPod. What's the problem?
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|iTunes 7 crashing?...mmh perhaps it's time to reformat your hard drive and reinstall Windows. No offense, but, I think version 7 finally is the most stable build by far. A little memory-hungry but other than that it's beautiful.
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|exactly.
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|Every time someone disagrees with an article they call it "biased." The meaning of the word has deteriorated to the level of uselessness. Just be honest (and unbiased) and say you disagree.
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|Appreciate that and well said. If anybody cared to notice, after my call to support is when I really lost faith. I'm sorry, bad customer support kills it for me.
For example, the guy on the phone couldn't even tell me where I was supposed to go to check a setting. I had to find it myself.
Now, say I was completely techno-illiterate. Then what?
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|Just FYI... this is in a clean installed computer running Windows XP with all the latest patches, so I don't think I need to do that.
While iTunes keep giving me problems, Zune software just works fine :)
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|I'm beginning to think that's simply the best they can do.
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|@ Fidelio
For Microsoft to release a player 5 years later that does not even compete with the other players much less the iPod is inexcusable. When the first iPod was release 5 years ago, it was better in many ways than other DAP's out at the time, you could even say it was innovative. Is the Zune blazing new trails here, or is it just a clone of what's already out 5 years ago?
I think the author is spot on with his review. The consumer experience should be the #1 priority, but it's not with this Zune.
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|Fidelio, iTunes is a good piece of software on a totally crap operating system. Do yourself a favour and bin your Windows sh*t and buy a Mac
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|are you ever right about that. iTunes 7.0 was one of the worst software updates ever. horrible. or should i say h-h-h-h-h-h-h-horrible. (mimicking the stuttering the songs would make.)
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|"the reviewer doesn't seem to understand what a first generation device versus a fifth generation device is."
The poster (that would be you, Fidelio) doesn't seem to understand that Microsoft has offered a first generation device to compete against a fifth generation device.
You'd think the first generation device, coming out at a date after the fifth generation device, would have closely observed and learned from the foibles of the five generations of its competitor.
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|Well, I have been running Windows since WIndows 2.01 on a PC/XT and have no complains. The few times I have used a Mac I feel totally constrained. So, I think if Apple offers one of their apps in a different platform than MacOS, then they must learn how to properly write an application for such platform. No way I'll switch to a Mac just for running iTunes. That platform doesn't have all other applications I need, plus is extremely expensive and limits expansion.
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|Yes this might be true Desides, but look at the Xbox. The first generation Xbox was alright, it got Microsoft into the market and they got their feet wet. No one at the time considered the Xbox a true challenger to the Sony Playstation line of game machines. Now look at the Xbox 360 and how well it is doing in only one generation. Compared to the reviews of the Sony PS3 today it appears it is Sony that is falling behind and rushing to market a game system that wasn't completely there just to stay in the game.
I believe Microsoft is learning from the Zune 1.0 launch and they've got many resources working behind the scenes to improve the Zune player for the next generation. Microsoft wasn't out to compete directly with Apple with the Zune 1.0. It was all about making a presence known and getting their feet wet and possible keep Apple over-confident with their position.
This is a win-win for Microsoft. If Apple continues to be over-confident Microsoft will destroy them. If Apple gets scared and starts to throw more money and resources at the iPod, Microsoft will destroy them. There is no way Apple can catchup to the offerings that Microsoft can throw at the Zune player. Microsoft has years of development of the Windows CE operating system and software to go along with it. This will put Apple so far behind the eight ball it isn't even funny.
The Zune player will get smaller in the second generation (like the Xbox) as the manufacturing and assembly kinks are worked out and the design is refined.
Zune 2.0 is going to make Apple's iPod look like a childs toy (which in a way it is). There is absolutely NO way Apple can match Microsoft on software. In the end the software available on the device is what is going to set them apart. Period.
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|Yeah kind of like how Microsoft released the Xbox after so many other companies had game machines out there for so many years. Comments like this were the exact same as what was heard after the original Xbox and people though Microsoft would never be able to compete with Sony. I suppose you think the Xbox 360 isn't competing well with Sony and Nintendo.
The first Xbox wasn't a real threat, but the second generation 360 is making the other game system companies running scared.
I have a feeling the Zune 2.0 is going to make good old Apple once again run scared back to mommy from the big old bully Microsoft.
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|Well, for starters, you'd be making a lot more posts here... ;)
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|Disable "Sound Check" in iTunes for better audio from your iPod:
http://docs.info.apple.c...ticle.html?artnum=61655
Sound Check data is synced with your iPod. "Sound Enhancer" also does more harm than good.
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|iRiver, Creative and Cowon have players that are superior to iPod. Unfortunately, they are less known because they don't have enough financial power. MS would better to buy one of them and concentrate on the software part. Instead, they tried to do everything and got dragged down because of rush and inexperience. I hope they will be able to overcome this early missteps. Otherwise the Zune will be synonym of bad name which would be an unsurmountable disadvantage.
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|"iRiver, Creative and Cowon have players that are superior to iPod."
that's a little opinionated, as the majority disagree, and have bought an ipod device.
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|Let's look at this another way
--
"Arby's, Chili's and A&W have sandwiches that are superior to McDonalds."
that's a little opinionated, as the majority disagree, and have bought a McDonalds hamburger.
--
Just 'cause it sells better don't mean it tastes better.
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|"Just 'cause it sells better don't mean it tastes better."
yah, maybe it's ronalds sexual appeal.
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|The majority has no clue, they are victims of the marketing hype. You'd be surprised that most of them are not aware of other brands, they buy iPod simply to imitate their friends. There are many things that majority of people do but not necessarily the best choice, for example I'm surprised that a lot of people know nothing else than Winzip.
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|Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree on the comment of the majority disagreeing.
I'm getting an iPod 5GE 30GB for Christmas in spite of my beliefs that the iRiver H10 20GB is a better device. That is the model my coworker has, and I have been thoroughly impressed with it.
However, I'm going the iPod route because of the vastly greater industry-wide support for the brand (yes, I'm conforming for the sake of convenience). One of the main reasons I purchased an Alpine CDA-9856 for my truck was because of the built-in support for iPod direct-connect options, and the ability to control the iPod from the head unit seamlessly.
I'm sure there are more than just a handful of people that believe there are better players than the iPod, but the device alone and it's features do not determine it's popularity... it's the whole experience, and Apple seems to know this better than anyone.
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|"it's the whole experience"
that's my point.
how can you agree and disagree with me on the same point?
what makes an mp3 player good is more than just it's ability to play mp3's.
if you really thought the iriver was a better device, you would buy it instead of the ipod.
but the ipod is the one that plugs into your car stereo seamlessly.
i guess it's the better product for you eh.
you know, i could get an inverter, and tote my home stereo around in my car with me. i'd have the best sounding mobile mp3 player around wouldn't i?
...maybe i'll just get an ipod.
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|Have to agree here. Apple simply came to the market in a much better position than anybody else when they debuted the Ipod. My Aunt doesnt know who the hell creative labs is, she's never heard of cowon or iriver, and she most certainly doesn't know what/who Archos is - she did however know about Apple - and while she doesn't want an Apple computer, Apple is a name she knows and associates with technology, and therefore she felt better about buying a music player with that brand name. That being said, this is how the majority of people think. I would rather buy a Sony Trinitron, than a Samsung Vizion TV - I'd rather buy a Panasonic VCR than a Durabrand, get the idea? That being said, I personally don't think the Ipod is inferior to it's competetors, I think it lacks freedom and features, but it's still a good device. I think however, that 1. had playforsure come out sooner and 2. had MS released a mp3 player along with the Ipod, that the ipod wouldn't be as strong as it is in the market today.
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|Actually, I didn't know that was the point you were trying to make, but yes... you're right. Looking at it in that context, mine was a rather contradictory statement. However, had you made that point clear, I would have responded differently I'm sure. I simply agree with his statement that there are players on the market that are superior to the iPod (sound quality, additional features such as FM tuner and built-in voice recording, better video playing capability, vastly wider audio and video format support, etc.), but that alone did not affect my ultimate decision to purchase an iPod. :)
Indeed, the iPod ended up being the better choice, for me, but not because I thought the player itself was the better choice (from a features standpoint), but rather better from a bigger picture revolving around greater industry support for the device. It does not mean that I wish it weren't so, as I would love to see that level of seamless integration with other portable devices from more manufacturers.
I simply chose the easiest route for me.
By the way, I tried the PC with inverter route long ago, but it was extremely cumbersome (yet effective). Ran Windows 98 in a slim form factor PC, disabled scandisk on reboot, pointed the shell to winamp.exe, and with a 10-key numeric keypad plugin for Winamp (with the pad mounted on the dash) I had direct access to any of my albums or playlists (with the help of a laminated cheat sheet by my side that had an index of the albums with the corresponding 3-digits for each one). Those were the days! :)
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|"I would love to see that level of seamless integration with other portable devices from more manufacturers."
propietary rights, everyone wants endless money for their ideas. there won't be a time when all companies get along untill large corps get past this. biggest reason why i don't like MS, they won't release code (or rights) to let other os's run windows made programs.
"I tried the PC with inverter route long ago..."
lol,
same here, sounds similar to my setup.
just a little cumbersome eh?
i only used it for a short time, it was more fun to set up than use.
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|"it was more fun to set up than use."
Haha! Agreed! After it was all hooked up, and I verified that song selection worked as it should, I was dancing around my truck yelling "I did it!". It was more for bragging rights, I suppose. That was a rather creative accomplishment back in '98, I thought.
Less than two weeks later, I was thinking to myself "This is cool and all, but this sucks. There's gotta be an easier way." Less than a decade later, this ability is quickly becoming almost mainstream. Life goes on. :)
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|...because they're universally available and everyone knows it's name.
Ask any iPod owner about the iRiver products and they'll stare at you like a deer in the headlights.
They bought the iPod because of marketing, not because it is a superior product.
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|Well, the big feet and all...
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|The Zune is based on the Toshiba Gigabeat S, MS farmed out the 1st gen build to them. I have had no problems at all dragging and dropping my non drm files onto the software to get to sync. I have also had no problem doing this with the ipod (OMG I have both?!@!)
and as for the inbox, its for the "social" aspect, it stores your incoming files, kinda the main point of the "social" aspect. RTFM guy.
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|I've always been a sucker for red-heads, too. :)
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|"Microsoft wants to make digital music a social experience"
....why?
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|Well, in many ways it can be a very private and personal experience... but for me, I cannot count how many times I've been turned on to new music either by recommendation, or through services such as Last.fm.
I'm always curious to see what others are listening to, either within my favorite genres, or within a completely different style of music that I never knew about or would have even considered.
However, in many ways music has always been a social experience. Wireless integration was the next logical step for a portable media player in this day and age. Granted, Microsoft's implementation of wireless sharing and transfer could use some serious polishing (and far less limitations with regards to DRM), but I think they're on the right track.
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|The question is: What was Microsoft expecting from this product? Was it wanting to kill the iPod, or just gain some profit (and perhaps take some iPod users to Microsoft)? Who knows, maybe Microsoft knew they couldn't beat Apple here, so they just setup an alternate source of income?
Reason I'm saying this is because Microsoft is known for making mistakes a plenty in the past, but for them to make this big of a marketing failure? For real? No--while it's possible Microsoft made a serious mistake in projected sales, I think Microsoft was expecting to have a slow start with the Zune. iPods have dominated for a while now, and even if Zune was superior in every way, it could not be easily and quickley dethroned. If Apple happened to have some massive recall while Zunes where getting started, that may be a remote possibility, but Microsoft is not that stupid. Hate them all you want (speaking to the anti-MS gang), but they aren't the biggest software vendor in the world because they are dumba**es.
Now, this article is very biased because it assumes Microsoft planned to have a competitive edge over Apple early in the game--maybe so, but we don't know that. Of course, Microsoft wants that, but be realistic: the Ipod owns this area of the market, and Microsoft is very much a late-commer.
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|Your comment is "biased."
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|Good points. We don't all hate Microsoft, but we often are left asking: What were they thinking!
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|The vast majority of people who hate Microsoft aren't biased, they're just informed and have a sense of moral principles.
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|.. a strangely biased comment.
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|I do not think that word means what you think it means...
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|That's what I was thinking...
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|Probably he means no... harm.
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|He's really very short on ... charm.
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|Ed's analysis is certainly true to my experience with Zune. It's almost as if it were a forerunner of iPod, not a successor, at least according to its physical design.
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|I agree with most of this, except the final thoughts. It's not a disappointment. Its the first offering out of the gate, and I think it will get better quickly. I love mine, and would recommend it, with the note that its a first run.
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|Agreed!! I like mine also and here is why.
"Zune also seemed to perform better in producing bass then the iPod. I've noticed in the iPod that using the equalizer to produce better bass, in many tracks -- especially electronic -- distorts the response. The Zune seemed to handle this far better. I was very impressed with the overall audio quality of the Zune."
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|How can you recommend this to someone who is looking to spend that much money "with the note that its a first run" ?!?!?
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|How is it that Microsoft has convinced us that because it's their "first version" that we should forgive mistakes and defects??
If Microsoft made a car, but the passenger door didn't work...would we happily wait for Car 2.0? "Now with twice as many working doors!" We probably would. Whatever Microsoft spent on the marketing that convinced us all of that...they got their money's worth.
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|ummmm because it's a good player and it's worth the money. the software has some quirks (but so does itunes... it doesn't work everywhere all the time).
i think the biggest issue for people is what the player actually looks like. personally, i think it's really nice looking and i like the finish on it. the size really isn't that big of an issue for me (it's not 2mm thin, so what)
i think that people are set on the ipod and that's what they're going to stay with because they like it and that's fine. there's just no reason to bash another player just because you don't find it personally appealing. it's a good player and it was worth my money
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|I haven't gotten my Zune yet, but I'm a little confused by some of your posts.
Just because the Zune isn't as small as the iPod, does not make it an inferior device. Sure, it's a little primative. And Amberica is very much a biased country, preferring things that are more appealing to your eyes.. so look at a piece of art. In all seriousness, the Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER. It was designed so that you could transport music easily, so that you could enjoy music wherever you go. That's what it does. And this statement convinced me to buy my Zune.
"Zune also seemed to perform better in producing bass then the iPod. I've noticed with the iPod that using the equalizer to produce better bass, in many tracks -- especially electronic -- distorts the response. The Zune seemed to handle this far better. I was very impressed with the overall audio quality of the Zune."
If it plays music better than the iPod, why wouldn't you want to buy it? I think the arguments on this page go much deeper than the Zune/iPod battle. It think it's a question of Amberican materialism, and what's "in," rather than what performs better.
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|i've sait it before and i'll say it again,
microsoft are like, give us your money, your the consumer, we don't give a sh@t, what you think, what you say, or what you think of us, we've got your money, here's your shi@ not f''koff,,,,,oh and thanks for making us one of the richest companies in the world......you fools.
this is there view, and with all respect, there right, us the consumers did put them there, and now they call the shots, i don't think we can really blame them, it's us (well) the people who has brought there products, instead of going to other companies (which usually design better software aswell) and get there products,
i.e. have you seen the sales already from the ZUNE player, massive, everyone wants gagets, and they want the newest and trendiest, (but it don't work), and! it still makes be cool because it's new.
and microsoft knows this is how people think ingeneral, and that's why they design products and software year after year, to sell to these people who has money on the hip, and want to show of to there friends.
and the worst thing is, when these so called people do grow out of there ways and start thinking more maturely, it doesn't matter, because you have a new younger generation now thinking the same as they once did,
it's a viscious circle, that microsoft only know to well, and will happily continue to depend on it, as that makes up a massive percent of MS income.
a single thought to pondour on how many people do you know that think this way "the newest is the best, the latest is the best, the dearest is the best"
the fact is it's called fashion, and every one wants to be seen with latest fasion, weather it's electronic goods, shoes, trainers, clothes, hairstyles, even employment (i work in american express, or i'm a i.t. technician at microsoft "do you like the job?" NO! "why are you there then, because it cool...."
everyones doing this, and MS have mastered there technique really well, maybe in time the ZUNE may compete, but as the main article points out, why enter a well established market unprepared, with a company that has virtually unlimited resources, has virtually no exscuse to become unprepared, unless of course, they don't care about the consumer, they just know how consumers think (most in general anyway)
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|"If it plays music better than the iPod, why wouldn't you want to buy it?"
Here is why for me:
No podcast support or integrated - insane!
No Audible support or integrated
No Mass Storage function
No Bookmark in Marketplace - When I sync the iPod to iTunes, it remembers the song placement
No Games, Notes, contacts etc.
All of the above I use on my iPod.
If I wanted to give-up all the above for a slightly better sounding player (does no mean the iPod sound bad) then I will buy a Creative or Archose player instead of the "primative" Zune.
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|I dont get this - iTunes always works. If you have problem with the software - fix it. It means somehting is wrong with your computer and its needs fixing, like defrag or whatever. iTunes just works fine on 99% of computers or it wouldnt have been installed on about 150 million machines, would it?
And Apple is doing EXACTLY what M$ has done - using their dominance to, well dominate and sell.
Sorry, if thats wrong, then so is Windows entire existence.
The issue here is that music is NOT like a choice between Win and Mac - thats why the iPod sells because it is cool in a music way - Microsoft will NEVER get that in a million years.
Social? Thats idiotic. If you want to hear a track on someones music player, all you do is switch your headphone jack to their player. It takes a second and there is NO restriction. In fact, an iPod user and a zune user can do this, too. Thats as social as personal music players get, and the wifi is simply a waste of time.
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|Do you actually buy a first-model-year car?
Most mechanics...hell, even most dealers (when being honest will tell you that you should wait until at *least* the second model year.
Why do people have this absurd need to make car analogies with software?
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|Bluetooth certainly helped to make the transfer of pictures and ringtones between compatible cell phones much easier and more commonplace. Why would the same not hold true for portable media players. Also, look what Wi-Fi did for the Nintendo DS.
Wireless connectivity is the next logical evolution for the device, in my opinion. It's only a waste of time for the moment until Microsoft refines and enhances the capabilities of it.
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|You're missing his point! And it's a perfectly fine analogy.
Microsoft is the only company that releases a product and immediately we here the "well this is only v1.0, V2.0 and V3.0 will be much better, you wait". Any other company that releases countless crappy first gen products will be out of business by now. Because it's M$, we give them a pass?
BTW: A good read on the strategy of this first Zune and how they rushed it half-backed out the door - V2.0 will have a smaller body, better battery and other things that should have been in the first gen. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/zunestory.asp
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|So because MS is optimistic about being able to improve each subsequent generation of the device they are Evil™?
Give me a break. I get your point, it's just not a good one.
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|