Man whoever wrote this story needs to be shot. The damn thing just came out what, two weeks ago of course its going to lag in sales behind everything else. That's just like saying the 2007 range rover lags behind all the other SUV's and it just came out. I'm not saying that it's better than the iPod but let's just wait and see instead of comparing a product from 2003 with a 2006 product...

Why does everyone keep complaining about Zune DRM, but no one says anything negative about iPod+iTunes DRM? You know that's protected and DRMed, too. Is it just cause it's MS that it's evil when they DRM but Apple is allowed to DRM without any complaints? What is the problem with the Zune DRM that makes it worse than the Apple DRM?

Me...I've just got a problem with Microsoft in general.

It would make me happy if Microsoft falls flat on its face with the Zune, but it's a bit premature to be sounding the death knell of the Zune.

What do you expect, all microsoft can do is copy off of others, they have yet to do anything on there own...

What do YOU expect? Take a look at 90% of the products out there. Someone came up with it first and then many others copied. Its the way of business.

And who expected Zune to all of a sudden take over? Its going to take them some time.

I bet you think iPod was the first mp3 player?

No but its the best mp3 player design and concept ever. It's stylish easy to use does what its supposed to and they are continued to be updated. If microsoft was in apple's position we would still be using the initial ipod putout however many years ago. That is the key to success, microsoft has made the owrd innovation mean nothing. Microsoft has never innovated anything. They sit back, let everyone else innovate then use their bank account and marketing in areas they are good in such as windows, to drive it.

They zune is hideous, I tried one at best buy and I would prefere a creative player over that beast. The interface is clunk yand annoying. The only feature they have is the wifi and that doesn't even do anything. yaay I get to share a song with who? No one has one of these players. Not only that but its like a block, so its not stylish, lets not even mention the colors. The only other thing it has is a bigger screen and thats not a big deal in my eyes.

The zune a perfect example of a microsoft 1.0 failure. But at least they took half a million ipod players out of the hands of customers to screw in a few years when microsoft, just like they did with the player for sure people, are going to shut down. I personally wouldnt buy something from microsoft that was based on subscription. They will bail in a few years and that thousands of dollars you put into the zune, will have you kicking yourself.

You have been warned.

Misses the point - it's not about copying a device - it's about creating/building the market and a brand. Apple did a phenomenal job getting consumers to believe that the iPod was not "just" an MP3 player - the tie-in with iTunes and the marketing of both together is what made the iPod happen.

To quote an oft used phrase in the business world - to succeed you need to be either first, cheapest, or best. The last of course is often a matter of opinion/marketing and that's where Apple has succeeded.

That's why Creative sued Apple over patent infringement for using the exact menu style that Creative designed and patented. Apple settled with Creative and Creative let them use that menu from now until forever.

The Zune is not 100% subscription based. There is a subscription option, or you can purchase MS points and buy songs separately.

Zune was still poorly thought out, but with a firmware update coming soon, hopefully they will add more "personal" functionality, since clearly the "social" thing isn't going to work out any time soon.

Typical blind mud slinging at MS. It is so easy just to throw out a blanket 'Microsoft has never innovated anything' statement without any facts.

MS departments are nearly their own entities with their own business models, production goals and development camps. Because MS funds them, people instantly sling mud. If Zune hadn't been an MS product it would have a completely different response, most likely less hostile, and the features unique to it praised as innovative.

Give me a break, you have no idea "If microsoft was in apple's position we would still be using the initial ipod putout however many years ago.", you are so witty.

lemmings.....exactly.

I was just over on the Zune site, it's loaded with long haired, grunge dressed, depressed looking people and drab colors. The overall look and feel is very disturbing. They are targeting broke, greasy teens.

I also don't understand that weird bar at the bottom with the strange graphics, no wonder people don't want to buy one of those things. Just go to site and you'll be so depressed, you'll want to kill yourself.

actually it makes some sense. I would be pretty depressed too if i laid out all that cash to be DRM'd to death.

What's the difference between Zune DRM and iPod+iTunes DRM? Why isn't that getting bashed?

Well if it was any cheaper, it might be an attractive purchase. What's the freakin' point in keeping it at $249 which is exactly the price of an iPod? I just don't get it.

Sell a DAP that apart from MP3 only supports proprietary MS crap, is loaded with DRM, has golly-gee-whiz CRAP vfeatures like Wi-Fi sharing and needs junk software to transfer content and your sales will lag too.

People woke up to the above with Zune. I wonder why the lemmings can't do the same with the iPod.. It must be the catchy commercials and trademark Apple mindless mystique...

I have been following the articles today about sales of the Zune on Amazon.Com
I went to look for myself just now and did not understand why Amazon does not let you "drill down" further in the categories under Top 100>Electronics>MP3 Players to a selection, for example, of 30GB video and music capable mobile media players, which the Zune is only offered in, so far. As of 6:20PM on Thursday, Nov. 28th, 2006 I see the following order for sales of the above:
1. Apple 30GB iPod video (BLACK)
2. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
3. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
4. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
5. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
6. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
7. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
8. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
9. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
10. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
11. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
12. Apple 30GB iPod video (WHITE)
13. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
14. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
15. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
16. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
17. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
18. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
19. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
20. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
21. Not an a 30G Digital Media Player
22. Zune 30GB Digital Media Player (BLACK)
In case no one in the press has noticed (seems that way), if you did have a category for 30G Digital Media Players and did not rank a device twice due to its color, you would eliminate the other items in the list and low and behold you would have the Apple 30GB iPod video at #1 and the Zune 30GB Digital Media Player at #2.
Ironic as it sounds, shall we compare apples to apples, please? Great spin going on here, how about some truth.
I challenge Amazon to create the sub-categories and let things rest in place properly.

Why do you hide info behind "Not an a 30G Digital Media Player" tag? Reality is that Zune isn't competing in some mysterious 30GB music players category, it is competing with *all* media players. And even then you didn't mention "Creative Zen Vision:M 30 GB MP3 and Video Player (Black)" (currently 12th).

Zune is doing badly and there is no one but themselves that Microsoft can blame. DRM nastiness, bad software, bad design, bad features.

I think the point is that the 30GB models of MP3 players are expensive. Granted, iPod is clearly beating the Zune in an "apples to apples" comparison of the 30GB model, but the point is that the SanDisk players are MUCH cheaper and have less storage/features. Both the Zune and the 30GB iPods have the full color screens with video playback. I don't believe other manufacturers have the screen size and storage space as these two models except for the Creative M?

An analogy: the Toyota Corolla is the #1 selling car in America (world too?), and in the rankings of model sales, let's say the new Lexus SUV that can parallel park itself is ranked 100th in relation to the Corolla. That doesn't mean the new Lexus is dying out, but it clearly targets a different market.

The new Zune and the 30GB iPod try to target everyone, but the price tag makes it not so.

Gee,

The Zune is trying to get into an already 3 year old iPod market, plus I keep hearing it's a re-badged Toshiba.

I just popped a 2GB Micro SD into my Blackjack, not only can I surf, use our exchange server (very very cool), email, play games, use GPS, watch videos, but also store about 500 songs on it and use it just like a Zune or iPod. Oh yeah, and I can make phone calls on it too. The stereo headphone adapter plugs into the side and let's me plug it into my car stereo, home receiver, noise canceling headphones for the plane rides, etc.. or you can use the built in speaker, which sounds good and is pretty loud.

All of this for under 300 dollars with the SD card, why would anyone buy a stand alone MP3 anymore when the phones are taking over, hence the new iPod/phone from the boys at Apple.

I know 2GB doesnt sound like a lot but who really fills a 30GB drive with nothing but music. If you do, you have issues. It takes all but about a minute for me to slide the card out, and load/delete songs, or I can do it through ActiveSynce but it's very slow.

Microsoft has it's head up it's arse, the WiFi is the only cool feature. I think you will see 4GB and 8GB Micro SD's within a year which makes the MP3 phones a way better value.

I'm not a fan of the iPod, it has turned into the ultimate sheep product, people buy them because they're "in" and because athletes and celebrites wear them.

I couldn't agree with you more...

oh wait, yes I can :)

"I know 2GB doesnt sound like a lot but who really fills a 30GB drive with nothing but music. If you do, you have issues."

It's not about needing 30GB of music all the time...it's the ability to have your entire music library with you at all times. So when I feel like playing a metallica CD during my morning commute I don't have to start wishing I deleted something else to make room for it and sync'd it before I left.

I personally hate killing my phone battery by playing mp3's. Nothing worse then losing access to email and missing phone calls from my boss because I drained the battery on the way to to work or home listening to music.

That's probably why they give you 2 batteries with the Blackjack. All I was saying is phones will take over the stand alone MP3 players within the next year.

I have no need for my whole music collection because I don't really have one. I constantly evolve and listen to new music, I can't listen to the same songs over and over that everyone on earth knows all the words to.

The depressing teen angst garbage you hear these days makes me ill. I like music that has a pulse.

" All I was saying is are phones will take over the stand alone MP3 players within the next year."

I'll sell that anyday....phones will take over as mp3 players within the next year? How much money do you want to put down on that?

Consumers have already shown that they don't like mp3 players in their phones.

"I have no need for my whole music collection because I don't really have one. I constantly evolve and listen to new music, I can't listen to the same songs over and over that everyone on earth knows all the words to."

So every few months you delete your old music? Yea...I get new songs all the time too...but guess what, I can always go back to an old favorite and put it on, without having to fly home and resync my almost dead phone (and I don't have to remember to charge 3 batteries and bring them with me just so I don't lose my phone).

I'll put down my life savings......3 bucks.

Having an all in one device just makes sense, the battery life is very impressive because the display times out after ten seconds, unlike every other stand alone MP3 player.

They also have this thing called a car charger that powers the phone and charges the battery at the same time. Do you ride public transportation exclusively? That must be the need for the 3 batteries.

And yes, I delete old music when I'm tired of it.

dozens of failed MP3/phone combo's say you're out $3 by this time next year...

The only MP3 Players I've ever like have been the ones iRiver makes, LOVe my H10 and would buy my next one from iRiver again

yeah, i've been an iriver person too :) i just wish that they would release an updated version of the h10 with a larger harddrive

neighbor bought a Zune. No problems. I was expecting a mess, but left very impressed. I won't buy one now, but will wait to see what gen2 looks like.

It was released to meet the holiday rush. 07 will be where it takes off.

Anybody stupid enough to actually buy a MS 1.0 product gets what they deserve.

didn't plan on getting Zune or any other anyways

Hint: When installing and using the Zune and Zune software, do not use the front USB ports on your PC. I ran into all sorts of problems when doing so and later had no difficulty when using a rear USB port. Personally I find the Zune musical and easy to use despite what many say.

I've never even seen one of these physically, but some of the negative comments may hold some water. For example, it doesn't help with remarks such as - "These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it," UMG chairman/CEO Doug Morris says. "So it's time to get paid for it." http://macdailynews.com/...p/weblog/comments/11610/ in reference to ipods.

Also, after reading the Chicago Sun-Times article here: http://www.suntimes.com/...,CST-FIN-Andy23.article
This person made some observations like, 'Windows Media Player incompatibility', 'no support for podcasts', and incompatible with 'Microsoft's own PlaysForSure'. Ouch. This could be a few reasons why this has taken a beating. It's too bad really, as it does, in other articles, look pretty cool.

While I feel that Zune feels incomplete in some respects I think that it has taken a bit of an unfair beating in the media. My only issue with installing Zune was on Windows Vista and even that issue was resolved quickly once I enabled the compatibility mode.

While the Chicago Sun-Times does make some accurate criticisms I don't think that they are as problematic as is made out to be. While it is unfortunate that Microsoft made Zune incompatible with PlaysForSure content I don't think that is going to really hurt it much because most of the PlaysForSure partners have done terrible. Microsoft already shut down MSN Music and Napster appears unlikely to survive. Given that very few players support Urge I doubt they have many customers either. Incompatibility with WMP hasn't seem to hurt the success of the iPod. Why should that be a prerequisite for success of Zune? Clearly there are shortcomings in the Zune Marketplace but they aren't anything that can't be resolved in a future version.

You would think that a product made by MS, especially an MP3 player, would be compatible with their own media player...

My issue, is that I've shelled out the Money for a year's subscription to Yahoo Music Engine, which works fine with my Creative Zen Micro, which is old, but I can't upgrade to Zune, cause I won't be able to use any of my old songs. I think MS will back down and make it open to Plays For Sure as well as the Zune Marketplace. They should probably limit sending songs to other Zunes to songs with the Zune DRM, but to make people repurchase their entire DRMed music collection just to play it on the Zune, is a big mistake in my opinion. They should make a tool to allow you to convert the DRM of Purchased (not subscription) files to the Zune DRM if the songs are available in the Zune marketplace. If you have a subscription and you switch to the Zune subscription then it doesn't matter, you can redownload all your songs again.

i actually wanted to like the zune.. i bought it (then returned it the next day), very nice player, great screen, simplistic layout... however that freaking software it comes with is just horrible... not only did it take forever to install it, it took many tries to get it to install. UMS players for me please!

i might get one again if they introduce a slimmer version with UMS capabilities, till then i'm sticking with my iRiver h10 :)

iriver h10! woot!

No really, I got it on woot.

I wanted to like Zune too, but it doesn't do any one thing better than any other player, other than be the trendy brown...

Thats funny, because I have never seen another mp3 player, that has been widely hated and scrutinized as the Microsoft Zune. There are other mp3 players out there that have been put out that are quite worse then zune and yet people only focused on the zune, force feeding to us how horrible it is, as if Microsft was breaking a law by introducing their own mp3 player.
Everywhere I see ads that cleverly put the Ipod in where they dont belong, from ipods in car ads to ipods in ads for levi jeans etc etc. Its like apple is paying all these people to do ad product placement.
This is just another disgusting way of people in the media trying to control the world by pushing what they like and hating anything that presents a challenge.
Thats why I think that Microsoft will make a miraculous comeback, this version of the zune wasnt a make it or break it creation, it was sjut something to stir the public and get it publicity so it'll be known in the market and can come out with its true zune that'll blow everyone away.
Mark my words, the bias of the media wont work on this one, it never has before ... Just look at the sells of Saw 3 and passion of the christ.

Does it really make any sense that Microsoft would launch a sub par product on purpose, that it was released only to "stir the public and get it publicity so it'll be known in the market and can come out with its true zune that'll blow everyone away?"

I would think they would want to launch the "true" Zune ASAP before the brand is bashed and/or irrelevant. I think there is no good Zune and that is the real problem.

I wish it was better. The screen (in theory) is nice. I'm sure a bigger screen will show up in a future iPod.

it was'nt a sub par product, all of its core mp3 player features exceed that of ipods any day.

" Does it really make any sense that Microsoft would launch a sub par product on purpose"

The zune is not a sub-par product...I have one (although I didn't pay for it...probably would of gotten it if I had to pay tho'), and I have an Ipod video (gave that to my gf).

"I would think they would want to launch the "true" Zune ASAP before the brand is bashed and/or irrelevant. I think there is no good Zune and that is the real problem."

Again...they may have rushed the zune a bit to get it out the door for the holiday season...but it's a gen1 product, you remember the gen1 Ipod? To this day I don't understand why people liked it. Now that the Zune is out there, MS can work on an improved version based on user reactions.

" I'm sure a bigger screen will show up in a future iPod."

Yea...I'm sure.

Not surprised at all. I am still puzzled as to why Microsoft waited so long to introduce an iPod rival. I mean--even I thought and expected it would fail, MS should have just ditched it before they wasted the time, money, and effort. Is there some hidden success in the end? Is it an 'outlast' contest where MS is expecting the iPod to have a catastrophic blow that will destroy Apple's dominance and allow the Zune to take over?

Really, can anyone here (regardless of personal preference) tell me why ANY business would have waited till now to release an iPod competitor? What is Microsoft thinking?

Why would they wait too long? It's all about ego not necessarily profit. They just can't stand seeing all that market go to somebody else. How long ago did the Xbox come out? Nov 2001 that's when. That division has yet to see black ink. 360 is still selling at a significant loss. They are closer to breaking even now, I will give them that. They do it because they can and they can afford.