RSSeBay and software group butt heads over stopping piracy
By Jacqueline Emigh | Published July 29, 2008, 10:40 AM
The SIIA wants eBay to squelch short-term software auctions. Since the start of its anti-counterfeiting initiative, eBay seems to be practicing some other curbs on software banditry, to various degrees. If the two sides can't see eye to eye, will the battle actually land in court?
Although a lawsuit against eBay isn't "pending or on the immediate horizon," the Software Information Industry Association (SIIA) has sued other Web sites before, and Keith Kupferschmidt, senior VP of the Software Information Industry Association (SIIA), is very unhappy over what he views as eBay's failure to take real action against software piracy.
"I can't say that eBay is ignoring us, because they keep meeting with us," he acknowledged, in an interview with BetaNews. "But we keep giving them a list of 28 or 30 suggestions -- and then they keep coming back and telling us that most of these things can't be done," Kupferschmidt said, in an interview with BetaNews.
On the other hand, a spokesperson for eBay told BetaNews that the Web site has in fact developed anti-piracy policies, and he e-mailed a link to a Web page containing eBay's Trust and Security Initiatives, instituted in May of 2007.
In the interview with BetaNews, Kupferschmidt characterized some reports that appeared in other publications last week as "overblown." He denied, for instance, that the SIIA is actively considering seeking legislation that would force Web sites to prevent copyright infringement.
But he confirmed to BetaNews that the SIIA has talked internally about the prospect of a lawsuit against eBay, and he added that the industry association is currently in court against another Web site, known as USMLEPRO.com. As previously reported, BetaNews had sought confirmation of any lawsuit plans against eBay on Friday, but an SIIA spokesperson was temporarily unavailable before press time.
In one of the SIIA's current legal actions, USMLEPRO is being sued on allegations of "direct" copyright infringement, according to the SVP.
Yet if eBay does get hauled into court, the charges will probably center instead on "secondary liability," for allegedly "providing the facilities" used by software pirates, BetaNews was told.
Of all the suggestions the SIIA has raised to eBay, the SVP considers two to be most important: eliminating "Buy It Now" -- a type of listing that foregoes the auction process to allow for instant sales -- and getting rid of one-, two-, and three-day auctions on software.
"eBay might say they've done these things. But if you go up there on eBay's site, you'll see plenty of 'Buy It Now' and one- to three-day auctions for software," he charged.
Meanwhile, in an e-mail to BetaNews, the eBaby spokesperson confirmed earlier statements by eBay that the company is preventing volume sales on software and eliminating most short-term software auctions, although he mentioned nothing about "Buy It Now" listings.
In a quick look tonight at about 60 current eBay auctions for Microsoft Office, BetaNews noted that the majority were "Buy It Now' listings, and three of the auctions were one-day events.
On the other hand, no one auction was selling more than 50 copies of the software, most were hawking less than ten copies, and several had only one copy for sale.
"The sale of counterfeits on eBay is illegal, violates our business ethics, and results in negative buying experiences," the eBay spokesperson said, in his e-mail to BetaNews, which also included a link to the full text of eBay's Trust and Security Initiatives. "Restrictions will be placed on some items that seem to be most favored by counterfeiters," he continued. "Restrictions may include: PayPal verification to list in volume; a minimum number of days as a confirmed registered eBay member to list in volume; one- or three-day durations may be removed as available options for these items; cross-border trade restrictions; delays in these listings appearing in search; [and] the number of listings per seller may be limited." Yet while these initiatives clearly spell out which restrictions may be applied, they don't really say which restrictions are applied, to whom, or on which specific types of items. At an admittedly cursory glance, it seems that eBay could be paying more attention right now to eliminating volume sales by newer or less known sellers than to abandoning one-day software auctions, for example. But although the spokesperson didn't highlight this point, eBay's initiatives also include new and strictly enforced regulations around feedback on sellers, which the site seems to see as helpful in combating software piracy and other forms of counterfeiting.
Buyers can now leave "detailed feedback" on sellers, as opposed to just "positive, negative, or neutral" ratings. At the same time, eBay has also eradicated negative feedback on buyers, so sellers can no longer retaliate in this way against buyers who leave negative feedback about them. Could it be that eBay and the SIIA differ less about the need to curb software piracy than about the most effective ways of accomplishing this?
eBay is a medium for individuals and some businesses to sell items. If eBay becomes overly restrictive in what it allows to be sold, then the customers will either go to another, not as supportive auction site, or sue eBay for making value judgements on what is being sold. eBay has several programs which target counterfeit goods and allow greater access to rights holders to stop counterfeit goods from being sold. These programs may not be perfect, but they allow some recourse to the rights holder.
eBay investigative staff have a tough job, with stopping consumer fraud taking priority and then followed by other types of criminal activity. Investigators cost money, much of it taken as a cost of doing business, but eBay seems to be trying to do the best by balancing the needs of rights holders with with rights of sellers to sell their merchandise. It's a tough spot to be in, but they are a large target if a group can convince a jury that eBay is at fault. The downside if that occurs is that everyone else loses.
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|I tend to agree that ebay should have stopped all software sales long ago.
They should have had a program of some sort to get certification of legal software or something. These random storefronts on ebay selling counterfeits is crazy. I mean I get spam from them all the time, and when I see the prices I'm like Yea illegal... Go to it the next week or so and Gee wiz the site disappears. wow... Go figure!!
Its not hard to tell a Discount reseller from a counterfeiter. They just need to do it. and thus far have been unwilling too.
Basically Ebay should be looking at these people that have storefronts popping up on their service that never last more then a few weeks. That should be 1 indicator.
Then have a program where the Certification of the storefront depends on legitimate software being sold. If a report of malfeasance is made it gets pulled and investigated as a stipulation of its continued certified reseller rights on the service.
IDK Everyone has the right to sell whatever they got, but I have seen too many people burnt by these fake storefronts and all I can say is sorry you got screwed, go get something legal.
Its not just software either, its movies its clothing knock offs (ruled legal). IDK, I dont think its Ebays fault, but I do feel they could do more to prevent it when THEY know full well whats going on.
However absolutely the GUILTY party is the seller, and THEY are the ones that should answer for their crimes. THAT is piracy, not the BS the industry tries to pass off. Anytime there is a person out there making money off copied software or movies, I say
"He's nothing but a low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worm! Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive! "
Heavy Metal Columbia Pictures 1981.
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|If eBay stops selling software to appease the SIIA, then the video game people will want that for all video games (I'm sure there some counterfeit ones out there) -- and the clothes people will want all clothes removed (in case any of those might be counterfeit) -- and hardware people will want hardware removed (because gray-market hardware violates the seller agreement) -- and so on and so on until eBay closes it's doors.
Pretty much the same for having to "certify" what people are selling. If eBay was required to certify software's (or anything else's) authenticity, then the extra burden on them would cause the listing prices to skyrocket. And, if they "certify" software and it later turns out to be counterfeit then eBay becomes legally liable.
The SIIA (and other rights holders) already have a mechanism in place through eBay where they can take down auctions that they think infringe on their rights. Software companies pay the SIIA to police their copyrighted works, and now the SIIA wants to intimidate eBay into doing the SIIA's work for it. Sounds like a nice deal -- take money from one group of people to do a job and then threaten another group of people with lawsuits if they don't do that job for you.
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|Maybe eBay should require sellers to send them all merchandise first so that eBay can verify it's not counterfeit. It's about the only way the SIIA will be happy and it should only raise listing fees by $20 or $30 per item to cover eBay's costs for shipping, inspecting, and verifying each item that gets sold on it's site.
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|What is wrong with these stupid companies. Leave Ebay alone. All you are doing is causing them to up their Ebay fees. Ebay is not an anti-piracy company, its a medium for sale/purchase of products.
You cannot drag Ebay into court and make them responsible for anything, just like AT&T cannot be held responsible for every pirate talking on the phone, or Com Cast for every pirate sending a file to a friend. Daily News and LA Times cannot be dragged into court either for a pirate listing in their newspaper.
If you want to curb piracy do it on your own without any intervention of these companies. Its not their problem, its yours.
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|100% agree, but they're going to end up in court anyway.
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|Is the "eBaby spokesperson" related to the GoDaddy girl?
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