oooo go xbox....*cough* I have to agree with Mark on this one, The X360 though a sucess, also a failure.

Yes "athome" you are right, Sony is having problems with the PS3 at the moment, but are they releasing it Right now? no, so it doesn't matter, atleast they didn't release it with the problems it's having.

I have been reviewing the X360 problems since launch, watching the flamers, watching the true analyst reports, watching those that say the love it. Of course on the web I see more bad than good. But that doesn't say much because it's the web. The X360 is a excellent powerful console that does redefine console gaming (sorry fella's, it doesn't beat PC Gaming in graphics or gameplay) But the PS3 when released will prove to be far superior as always. Sony has been the leader in console gaming, and will continue to thrive.

Yes, but how many of those 600,000 have failed, and are replacement units. From what I gear, is's a VERY large number of failures...

Personally, I prefer to have my console delivered in a "when it's ready" (PS3), fashion, not "in time for xmas" (ex-box360)...

Your comment is premature, in recent articles Sony is currently experiencing issues with its blue-ray discs, and are still moving forward with the launch in Spring 2006. All companies use "Bean Counters" to give them the "yes" or "no" for launch - regardless.

Not that I am coming to the aid of MS, but there is always a margin of failure(1-3% in this case); and MS's has been greatly exploited by the media and MS haters.

Being a fan of Sony myself, they had a poor design for the PS1 and 2. Heat issues were also a factor. What about the HDD they were offering and all the possiblities that were related to that - did they ever materialize - no! In fact, the second generation of PS2 took it out all together. How many games did you see that even utilized the HDD. I only know of 2. HMMM!

MS has made every attempt to help those with systems that have had heat issues, but it is the user and the lawyers that are giving the problems. In my mind, the company is doing right by the consumers.

The same reason PS2 HDD never took off, is the same probelm that is going to kill XBox360, the fact the hardware is not standard on all consoles. Developers than have to code for the lowest common denominator, i.e. the Core 360. of course some fanboy will claim it's as simple as if (HDD ){ do->this; } else { do->that; }, but reality is, you cannot realistically do this for the entire game codebase, and thus the HDD will never be fully utilised.

The best thing Sony can do, is make HDD standard, along with Blu-Ray, all games and developers can take advantage of these features, without compromising their potential market.

From what I can tell, 1-3% is under estimating th real failure rate at the moment.

I know 3 people of xbox 360, 2 of them have failed. I have a workmate who works in game (UK), and recons it to be closer to 8% from their returns rate in that particular store.

PS1 and PS2 has laser pickup problems, and teething problems, but from what I can remember, nothing as high as the XBox360 failure rate, and the problems with both were sorted very quickly, with new revs launching a few months after.

so because you know 2 out of 3 people with failed Xbox, you think that makes you an expert statistition?

Maybe your friends are idiots that are doing something weird on an XBox.

1-3% is the real stats, despite what YOU think.. 3 people is not a good percentage to even come up with reliable stats.

And the XBox problems are sorted out very quickly, you call today, and MS will send you a NEW xbox to be shipped next business day, and they don't even wait for the old to be shipped.

And the UK, yeah like I am going to trust that source.. Best buy and Circuit City have seen very low returns.. maybe 3 -4% but definately not 8%.

HDD will NEVER be standard. They are IDE drives, and they can't use 1 single source for a manufacture, that would be bias. So they get the best HDD at the best price. I got news for you, chum, hard drives have the same problem in the laptop world and desktops, so its not limited to consoles.

And another thing, HDD are the problem of the manufacturer and where they are built. the problem isn't the device themselves, but companies use cheap labor to build them, with no QA. They are built overseas and shipped back here. There are way too many HDD to keep up with.

And you say the PS2 HDD never took off? Its a good thing you don't work in a gaming store, you would have zero customers. The PS2 HDD are sold at a rate higher than they can keep up with the demand. If you buy FF IX it comes with the game.. there isn't a real NEED for the HDD on PS2, but they are selling quite well.

FF9? You mean FF11, right?

Perhaps you have trouble reading... My 8% was not based on 3 people.. (Idiot).

"I have a workmate who works in game (UK), and recons it to be closer to 8% from their returns rate in that particular store."

A few basic points. In my humble opinion:

1) XBOX360 is a great system. Sure the PSP core might be technically superior, but MSFT wins in online interaction, and MSFT has better developer tools. Some have suggested that the PSP3 needs more raw horsepower to compensate for the lack of strong development tools.

2) It will be a bit yet b4 we see games that take full advantage of the 360's capabilities.

3) I think MSFT did screw up a bit as demand seems to have fallen off for the moment. I can't speak to the logistics behind the "trickle" production strategy, but it is clear that many more could have been sold if more supply had been available.

Trends can s*** in either way at this point. More and better games will be released for the 360 while the hype towards the PS3 launch builds. I'd expect to see some type of price cut or promotion from MSFT about that time to take the edge off of the PS3's launch thunder.

I agree.

I have heard that one of the major reason why sales have fallen, is due to the amount of games being offered right now. As soon as the games begin to hit market, the 360 will again generate sales.

2nd, there are a lot of us that are waiting to see what Sony has. Why spend 350 xbox360 when the price for the sony will be near or greater in price. I am waiting to see before I make my decision.

To me, it comes down to the games. Not whether or not MS or Sony. If it turns out that MS is better, I will make my choice.

Since MS is already selling the product at a lower cost than it was built, I doubt if it will go any cheaper. We will see much the same as it is now. The price will be the same always.

Xbox 360 is really great. I love this gaming console.

I don't know all the specs on the 360, but it seems kinda disappointing (so far). Suppose to have these great graphics, but all I've noticed so far is not so much the polygon count going up, but they just add better bump maps or normal maps to the game. Look at Need for Speed Most wanted. Great game. First X-Box makes it look great, except for a lower res (i didn't see it on HD with the first X-Box. About 320x240). The 360 looks the same except it's just in an HD format. Almost seems like they didn't worry so much about increasing the polyogn count, as much as "we need this to run at HD with shader effects like motion blurs and so on!". Of course games RIGHT NOW are just being ported over without modifying them too much. I can't wait to see a game that will take advantage of the hardware (in about a year and a half). Unreal 3, for instance, looks great (for PC ) so far.

On two of the games that I have seen so far, there is a better performance and look about the games. However, the current games are not utilizing the full 360 capabilities. I am hopeful that the next generation games will do so. Then I can make the decision on which console to buy.

They are selling a number of units that's for sure too bad they didn't ramp up enough.

I have an XBOX 360 w/ 20gb harddrive. I have it hooked into my wireless network and it's able to access my WinXP box to pull music, photos, etc from it.

I've been playing NBA Live 2006 (EA) and Dead Or Alive 4. Both look great. I even played several demos like King Kong, Full Auto, Kameo and others. All in 720p on my HDTV.

I have none of that stuff, and more money!

(My point being what is the point of bragging about something so pedantic?)

Because it's freakin sweet. I wish I could afford that kind of setup.

I'm not sure pedantic is the word you want. He's not overly focusd on learning, nor is he boasting about it. I'm pretty sure his learning would be hurt, certainly not helped, by his X-Box.

It is a game console. Much like individuals talk about the specs in their PC's, so will those about their game consoles.

It was Ludwig Mies van der Rohe that said, "God is in the details." We often are ablivious to them, but they are always there.

People talk about their PC stats like the youths of the 50s and 60s about their cars. Some will never race them and leave them in their garage(never to drive), but the fact that they have one and you don't will always be important(and that they can talk about the particulars of them).

They would've sold a lot more if they were actually prepared and had some in stock.
Most major UK retailers aren't expecting stock until late March / April.

Although a small delay for customers adds to the excitement about the product, allows MS to charge a slightly higher price and generally has a better impact than if customers all bought one immediately, a 4 month delay to even get more stock into the stores is ridiculous.

For me, I would've bought one straight away.
Now it'll be at least 6 months from the launch date before I can just walk into a store and buy one, I don't think I'll bother.
If I've waited 6 months, I think I can hold out for another 6 months when there's plenty of stock, prices are cheaper, deals are better and there's more games.

Over the past 2 years, I've had 2 xboxes, 40+ games, and have been paying for xbox live (often on 2 accounts).

MS screwed this up big time.
I'll just keep my money and my old xbox.

I think they are still going through the "new adopter" phase. The price is still too high and there are not a lot of games out there yet.

The original Xbox I think has more appeal at the minute.

MS needs lots of games NOW, a huge & miraculous hardware production ramp up, a price promotion, AND further delays of Sony's upcoming console. Otherwise(& likely anyhow) it's dead in the water as far as recouping the project costs. Sony's processor will be able to do trillions calculations per second: in one rendering test it got under a sec @ 30fps, while the fastest Pentium available took over 2 minutes. Translation: potential for better res than HDTV and IMAX combined.

hilarious. I guess marketers kill for an audience like you. the hardware isn't even gold and you know what it can do. And of course, Sony has never stretched the truth before.

Aren't PS3's supposed to have multiple cores or something?

Well, like every console, the first games to be released will only be 20% efficient, and then towards the end of its life you'll see much higher quality games both graphically and AI wise.

lol, you've really been suckered in by Sony's BS Hype.

Yea...the Xbox360 has 3 cpu cores too...what's your point?

You can't seriously expect developers to get maximum performance out of new systems they're unfamiliar with?

PS3 = 1 General CPU core, 7 cores for the GPU. Xbox360 = 3 General CPUs, 1 GPU core.

Personally, as a programmer, I can see how the XBox360 model would be more attractive to developers being that the architecture of having raw multi-instruction processing power is certainly a lot more liberating than one forcing me to wrap my brain around multi-threading graphics rendering instructions. Judging by the comments being made by folks like Pandemic and Activision, Sony's not making it any easier either with their GDK.

That being said, I hardly think that the architecture is going to be the inflection point upon which the console wars will be decided. The question will be, which console signs up the right game developers and has the best games.

I think maturity is going to set in a lot faster for Xbox360 being that folks are getting an education right now on 'how to do things'. Games like Far Cry Instincts that only play on Xbox are an indicator of the impact that a good developer friendly GDK combined with a powerful system can have.

Sony will undoubtedly reach that point, but I doubt it will be anywhere close to release. They'll have to wait a little until someone produces a SOCOM caliber game.

I think Sony set themselves up for failure on one point: Unless they deliver on Killzone 2, as "demonstratrated" at E3, everyone's gonna once again call the liars and full of hot air once again.

Meanwhile, Xbox360 STILL has Halo 3 and all the up-to-release hype that will go with that friggin' game.

About "needing lots of games NOW", I wholeheartedly disagree. MS released their system uncontested. You could be wearing dress shoes but as long as you're in competitive shape, you'll win the first game of any tennis match if there's no one across the net from you. One might even consider it a warm up... to play your 'A' game when your competition finally does come out, and you have your real tennis shoes on.

That's why first-to-market is such a big deal. If you assume all things being fairly equal, first-to-market is a real X factor in any marketspace.

And let's be clear: With regard to XBox360 being "dead in the water as far as recouping project costs"... Microsoft has $65 BILLION in the bank, while XBox's projected costs haven't even eaten the original $6 billion that Bill Gates and the boys allocated.

And if you think that this 'war' is about making money on 'games' and 'accessories', think again. PS3 vs X360's all about winning the family room.

With that in mind, you better hope that Sony wins the Hi Def DVD format war, because otherwise there's gonna be a lot of PS3s out there with worthless (and expensive) drives in them, fanboy.

I'm sorry Kramy...I just really fail to see how your response has anything to do with my post?? All I said was that the 360 has 3 cores...and your response is "you can't seeriously expect devs to get max performance out of a new system"??

That's because you posted off-topic twice.

I commented on efficiency. Whenever there's new technology, people screw up, learn, then get better at using it.

I said that like every console, the first games to be released will only be 20% efficient, which implies the XBox360 aswell.

Basically, better games usually arrive later in a console's lifespan, unless a company like MS or Sony is specifically trying to get a game out for hype.

Wow, that's really limitted. I would have much prefered 4 General, 4 GPU.

That way hotseat play-with-your-friends games could have multiple TV screens, and it wouldn't be so bad if you only had two GPU's working together.

All 7 though....I have no idea how that'd work. I guess that means the GPU's won't be enhancing sound effects, AI, music, loadtimes, etc., will they?

I guess the XBox360 might actually get *better* games quality wise due to the extra features they could put in, even if they look slightly worse.

LOL I posted off topic??

Lets recap shall we:

Kramy:
"Aren't PS3's supposed to have multiple cores or something?"

Response from Niro:
"Yea...the Xbox360 has 3 cpu cores too...what's your point?"

Response from Kramy:
"You can't seriously expect developers to get maximum performance out of new systems they're unfamiliar with?"

Go ahead and pick out the off topic post there...oh it's the last one from Kramy...

Well sure, if you ignore 80% my post it looks that way.

mjm01010101:
"hilarious. I guess marketers kill for an audience like you. the hardware isn't even gold and you know what it can do."

Kramy:
"Aren't PS3's supposed to have multiple cores or something?

...the first games to be released will only be 20% efficient, and then towards the end of its life you'll see much higher quality games both graphically and AI wise..."
-Refers to what it "can and can't do", as mentioned above.

Response from Niro:
"Yea...the Xbox360 has 3 cpu cores too...what's your point?"
-Legitimate question asking what my point is, caused by not reading in order.

Response from Kramy:
"You can't seriously expect developers to get maximum performance out of new systems they're unfamiliar with?"
-My point: ...the first games to be released will not be terribly efficient, and then towards the end of a console's life you'll see much higher quality games both graphically and AI wise...

-All history of software development proves devs fail to milk performance from 95% of stuff. Some good examples are every single program on your computer, and nearly every single game in existance(except for really old NES ones that might be pure assembly).

Dissected, for your enjoyment.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but the PS3 uses the Cell CPU which has multiple CPU cores. The PS3 will have 3 CPU cores or more.

There is currently no CPU for game consoles or desktop computers on the market that is more powerful than the Cell processor.

Hey, it's ok. They still have very few games. When the good games come out, there will be hardware, guaranteed. This shortage may actually keep the hype much longer than you might otherwise get.

The hype is pretty much dead. Some talks, but I haven't heard anyone in the real world talk about it since December. MS really messed up on their low supply high demand plan. Total backfire.

How much you want to bet 500K+ were resold? Cruel but they are basically impossible to find.

They must be disappointed. I thought the PS2 shortage was bad but wow, this is a horrible start. Lets hope demand keeps up for their sake.

say whatever you might want people, the 360 is a good system.

It may be, but fake shortages, high prices, and malfunctions didn't help the cause any.

It's not a good system, it's a GREAT system!

Yet another lame troll that gets his facts from reputable sources like 'The Register' or 'The Inquirer'.

What's wrong with the Inquirer?

Or did you mean *Enquirer*?

How many of them actually worked? :)

I have had xbox 360 since nov. 22nd and I love it. I have 6 games and I have no problems. It looks really good on my hdtv. Go Xbox 360!!!!!!!!!!!