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Amazon drops price of Xbox 360 HD DVD player, promptly sells out

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

February 6, 2008, 11:35 AM

Amazon this week began offering Microsoft's HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 for only $79.99, but those wanting to take advantage of the deal may be too late, as the online retailer is currently sold out.

The $80 price tag follows a price cut in early December that made the drive available for just $129. It's not clear if the deal was a one-time offering from Amazon, or whether other retailers will follow suit. Making it all the more enticing, Amazon's 6 free HD DVD deal is also applicable to the Xbox 360 add-on.

With consumers largely not interested in buying either HD DVD or Blu-ray products, and DVD still outselling the next-generation formats by a magnitude, both sides are resorting to price cuts and free deals. Blu-ray hardware sales jumped in early January thanks to Sony, Sharp and Panasonic bundling players with HDTVs.

Toshiba and the HD DVD Promotional Group, meanwhile, have placed their bets on affordability. The HD-A3 player from Toshiba is currently offered at under $120 and is Amazon's best selling DVD player. The group is hoping that studios who are Blu-ray exclusive will see no option but to support HD DVD when it is in millions of homes.

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By Bladeforce

posted Feb 10, 2008 - 1:54 PM

http://www.maxconsole.ne...e=news&newsid=25051

Samsung to be sued for defective Blue Ray players...first of many

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 8:22 AM

No, not big news.

If you could read properly you'd see that Amazon have sold out of them and so list another supplier until new stocks arrive.

Are you really that unfamiliar with how they work?

Score: 0

By chia-homer

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 12:52 PM

what are you talking about. the price went up to $130 from $80. 50 increase.

are you really that unfamiliar with how to read.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 2:56 PM

Stop being a total moron.

Amazon were selling the HD DVD add-on for $8.
Amazon promptly sold out of the add-on.
When this happens Amazon substitute another supplier - but clearly have no control over the price that alternate supplier charges.

Wake up to reality for once.

Score: 0

By chia-homer

edited Feb 8, 2008 - 3:15 PM

look at the story idiot. it says the price went down to 80. but amazon and ALL OTHER RETAILERS now sell it for 130 or 120.
http://www.circuitcity.c...em/ccd/productDetail.do
http://www.bestbuy.com/s...=1&id=1158321865239
so either this story is false, the price went up, or this price was just temporary for amazon only.

Score: 0

By chia-homer

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 7:30 PM

BIG NEWS PEOPLE: Amazon RAISES price of Xbox 360 HD DVD player by $50.
http://www.amazon.com/Xb...d=1202430472&sr=8-1

Score: 0

By Bladeforce

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 6:03 PM

"if anyone is going to ensure that HD Media becomes a niche market it is people like you that refuse to buy a product because its made by Sony, or Toshiba themselves for blindly fighting a lost cause..."

like i said a few times..3 steps back....but I know the writer of this line will not comprehend this comment *sigh*

Score: 0

By Bladeforce

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 5:58 PM

Buy a Popcorn Hours media player, get the mkv's in literally minutes on a decent connection, store to an external hard drive, wham bam fantastic quality HD without the need of the b****ing and pathetic disc media, ENUFF SAID

Score: 0

By Austin814

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 1:18 PM

With prices like Amazon has with HD-DVD's for $14.95 - $19.95 and free shipping HD-DVD could take over standard DVD's in no time. Its just a matter of getting it universal. I'm stiking with HD-DVD, and if the format ends, I'll drop back to SD DVD and let the player up-convert. Up-converting looks just fine on my 46" 1080i.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 1:48 PM

Up-converting looks just fine on my 46" 1080i.

Exactly. "just fine" is plenty good considering the cost of the alternative.

Score: 0

By Austin814

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 2:47 PM

Yes, thats my point. I am an early adopter, I like new technology, I update my CPU, video card and motherboard every few months and purchased a HD-DVD player. The question of cost isnt "can I afford it??, the question is "is it worth it?" and I dont believe that it is when you are talking $35 for the same movie that is $19 beside it on the rack. If HD-DVD movies are $5 more then I'll pay that because I think its worth $5, but its not worth $15. Thats why I think if HD-DVD keeps its prices close to those of DVD, the uptake will be fast, especially since many people will have HD-DVD support anyway.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 4:38 PM

ive never paid more than $15 for a movie on Blu-ray...so wherever you are buying HD-DVD's for $35 you're getting ripped off...

Score: 0

By Austin814

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 11:18 AM

I myself am not getting ripped off because I am buying from Amazon, but if you go to Target, Wal-mart, CC, BB...they are $35, and thats where most people buy them. So, my point is if somone looks at the shelf and see's $35 for MovieX in HD/Blu or $19 for MovieX in standard DVD most people will not pay $15 more for the same movie just because its in HD, no matter the format. Make it $22 for the HD version and $19 for the standard and then you have a way to accelerate the sales of a HD format.

People will pay a premium for something better, but most people also will not pay almost double for something just a tiny bit better.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 5:23 PM

so wherever you are buying HD-DVD's for $35 you're getting ripped off...

...is funny because his comment at the top states he pays $14.95 to $19.95.

Helps if you read the comments above in the same thread. Keeps you from making statements like that and arguing yourself into a corner.

Score: 0

By chia-homer

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 4:45 PM

Amazon baby! 19.99 then a buy one get one free makes it 10.00 EACH! I did get simpsons movie for 23.99 but that was the most i paid.

Score: 0

By Austin814

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 12:37 PM

Has anyone received their five free HD-DVD's? The form said 8 weeks. Tomorrow it will be 10 weeks since I mailed mine. I later called to confirm they received it, it was received Nov 29th. When I called last week I was told it was "processing". Heck, it doesnt take 10 weeks to process DNA, how hard could it be to process 5 check-box's of which movies to send to me?

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 9:02 PM

"Has anyone received their five free HD-DVD's?"

- Yes.

It took just under 2 months in the UK and was well worth the wait.

Score: 0

By Bladeforce

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 6:45 AM

Why argue About an HD-DVD add on on and Bloo Ray??? The way forward isnt physical media in fact i now believe following Sony into this format will take us 3 steps back. Get a popcorn hour media player and play those mkv's now!!!

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:14 AM

blah blah blah...digital distribution, on-demand...get back to me when ANY cable/satellite/whatever company has the resources to match the quality of Blu-ray or HD-DVD and we can talk...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 8:28 AM

Who needs an internet connection anyway?

My HD Satellite TV provider uses a partitioned DVR HDD.
It is always used (50%) to store new HD movies & TV shows.

Easy, convenient & no need to worry about internet infrastructure.

The true downloading services will come in the next couple of years, in the meantime this is a good half-way solution.

....and HD TV services
(ie HD on my HD TV all the time)
is one of the prime reasons why over-priced Blu-ray is extremely unlikely to escape the game console niche.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 12:21 PM

Get back to me when people care more about quality than getting it *now*...

Yeah, I don't expect to hear from you any time soon.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 8:46 PM

The XBox 360 HD DVD add-on makes an excellent PC ROM drive (no worries about connections, or the XBox 360 base unit noise etc etc).

So easy & now that even the cheap graphics cards relieve CPUs of the decoding load you don't need a flashy PC to operate one.

Windows finds the drivers, Cyberlink's PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra is all you need.

Very inexpensive & easy.

Score: 0

By Jahmekan

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:25 PM

The HD DVD add on is just fine with the HDMI equip Xbox 360 and a good TV. I have a Samsung DLP 1080P TV and it beautiful. You can also hook up the 360 HD DVD drive to your computer.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 7:32 PM

sure it is still an HD-DVD player, but to compare it to the capabilities of HD-DVD stand alones, or the PS3's BD player...its not in the same league...

the 360's HDMI output can't even output multichannel uncompressed audio...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 9:04 PM

If you use the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on with a PC then the PC's audio & graphics card are the limiting factor.

1080p & high quality audio are easy.

Score: 0

By Skyfrog

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 2:34 PM

I know that it works with Vista, but does XP support it also?

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Feb 8, 2008 - 8:29 AM

"does XP support it also?"

- I have XP media edition, when I plugged mine into the USB port it was instantly recognised & Windows asked if I wanted it to go & get the official necessary drivers.

It took seconds. Nothing hacked about it.

Total simplicity.

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 2:39 PM

There's a hacked driver out there, that will let you use it with XP, as well.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:12 PM

unfortunately the HD-DVD add-on is a pretty subpar player, and if you are looking for an HD-DVD player than you should go stand alone...

the add-on does not have any of its own audio/video outputs...so it must use the 360's output options...meaning...no multi channel HD audio codecs, no HDMI 1.3 support...and its a weak player in terms of visual quality in general...

how come the oh so consumer friendly HD-DVD group is not informing its consumers that they will NEVER be able to purchase 80+% of high definition movies??

Toshiba is driving prices SO low in an attempt to save ANY sort of chance the format has that it is causing other hardware companies to drop support...soon only Toshiba will be able to produce the players...the far east players will do NOTHING....you talk about BD profiles screwing customers...at least they will be able to watch the movies without the extra features....just wait till all the un-informed HD-DVD consumers find out nobody is making movies in that format anymore!...yikes!

i also love how BetaNews continually mention that DVD is outselling the HDM by a large margin, yet they fail to put it into context and offer the oh so small tidbit of info that it took DVD more than 7 years for DVD to catch up to VHS' yearly sales totals...it was not until 2004 when DVD sold more than VHS in a year...so in 2014 if DVD is still outselling the HD media, then we can talk about failed formats...

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 3:53 PM

No, the firmware is subpar.

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 3:01 PM

The add-on isn't a bad entry level player. I picked one up a little over a year ago, to test-drive the format before investing in a stand-alone. While it may not be the best player on the market, the opening crawl for Pitch Black still looked freakin' great. My biggest concern with it, was how much of the work the 360's hardware did (and let's face it...we all know that there were issues with the hardware).

To answer your question about consumers NEVER being able to buy 80+% of hd movies, read the article..."The group is hoping that studios who are Blu-ray exclusive will see no option but to support HD DVD when it is in millions of homes."

If enough HD DVD players (standalone or add-on) make it into homes, it only makes sense for studios to go neutral. Any studio that refuses to do this, without taking the numbers into account, is effectively shooting the "the consumer has spoken" arguement in the foot.

But then we get to the part of your post, where you need to make up your mind. In one breath, you're effectively claiming HD DVDs demise (and have been for some time); and in the next you're tossing out DVD vs. VHS numbers, and saying that it's too early to talk about failed formats. Which is it?

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 7:31 PM

i didnt say the add-on is a BAD player, but its got SERIOUS limitations compared to the stand alone players...this is a major difference between MS and Sony's model here...Sony released a high quality next gen format player built into the PS3...the 360 add-on is exactly that...an add-on and it suffers because of it...

the problem with your studio support logic is that its not like 80% of the studios started out supporting blu-ray and HD-DVD is making a comeback here....HD-DVD was released first...and almost upon release blu-ray took over the sales lead...studios have been switching TO Blu-ray exclusivity because sales are OVERWHELMINGLY in BD's favor...there is no comeback in the cards right now....Toshiba slashing prices is causing the hardware manufacturers to abandon the format (the latest being Onkyo)...HD-DVD is already in millions of homes but its simple fact that Blu ray outsold HD-DVD by AT LEAST 2:1 all year, and since the Warner move its even worse...companies are dropping support for HD-DVD left and right and if you think its going to swing back you have lost your mind...the studios made the jump in an attempt at saving HD Media in general and they would be stupid to go back now...if Toshiba and the HD-DVD group are so consumer friendly they should throw in the towel and ditch the format....Toshiba makes some GREAT upscaling players and would im sure make some of the highest quality BD players on the market if they were to switch...it would allow the HD market to move forward toward profitability...

what i am bringing up with the DVD vs VHS numbers is simple...everyone says that HD Media does not matter to the average consumer...and that its a niche market that will never outsell DVD because DVD is "good enough"....i bring up the DVD vs VHS sales numbers to show that for 7 years DVD was a niche market that the average consumer did not care about....and to make assumptions about HD Media based on DVD vs HD Media sales at this point is ignorant...

the BD vs HD-DVD argument is a whole different beast...BD is CLEARLY outselling HD-DVD, and did for the whole year of 2007 (all 52 weeks BD sold more)...and 2008 will surely get worse for HD-DVD....the idea of which HD format will win is as close to written in stone as its going to get without Toshiba making a switch....but the idea of HD Media (once a single format is chosen) never outselling DVD is simply silly talk...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:54 PM

yet they fail to put it into context and offer the oh so small tidbit of info that it took DVD more than 7 years for DVD to catch up to VHS' yearly sales totals.

Perhaps because it is completely irrelevant to the point that HD is currently a non-issue for most folks?

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 7:21 PM

you're delusional....

of course DVD will be outselling HD Media right now...just like VHS outsold DVD in its first year...it was not until 7 years after release that DVD actually outsold VHS....guess why?...because DVD was a non-issue for most folks...because VHS was "good enough"....

this is what i don't get about some people here (and im not directing this at you PC_Tool)...they knock HD Media like its no biggie, but i doubt you guys would have been sticking by VHS' side like this back when DVD was released because VHS was "good enough"...its nonsense....

I know what the real issue is...and its that you're all pissy because HD-DVD is loosing, and thats you're format of choice...

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 2:25 AM

Met...take a deep breath, you're starting to rant.

In one breath, you make the arguement that it took 7 years for DVD to outsell its VHS counterpart, because VHS was good enough. In the next, you're getting frustrated because people are doing the same thing, in regards to hd media and DVD.

The first thing to consider here (and I believe that this is PC_Tool's perspective), is that HD has little impact on the average consumer, to date. In the most recent article I could find on the subject, analysts place HDTV penetration at about 28 million homes, out of 112.8 million(in the US), while only 17-18 million watch HD programming on them (of course, as it seems with all things HD, there is some dispute about the numbers, but this seems to be the average).

Here's where it gets sticky. You and I both know that there's a fair sized difference between upconverted, and HD media; in much the same way that we know that the 'hd' picture from cable is compressed to hell. The average consumer may or may not though. He/she looks at the picture (whether it be broadcast or upconverted) and thinks it looks pretty damn good, in comparison to his standard def. tv. When you factor in other considerations, such as the cost differences between players and discs, the reasons to compell Joe Average to buy the HD gear aren't really that compelling.

IMO, neither side in the format war did enough to educate the average consumer on the benefits of HD media. I think I've learned more from the 'experience Blu-ray' and 'HD DVD experience' trailers on their respective media, than I did from any material in stores (and that's a waste, since I had already bought both players!).

Sure, some people are pissy because they choose the format that's struggling right now; but I think it goes a little bit further than that.

I've never made it a secret that I own both formats. I used to be pretty excited about them, too. It's unfortunate that both sides of this battle have turned that excitement to ambivilance. With relatively few exceptions, I'll stick with upconverting, until this whole thing finally blows over.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 8:55 PM

It is a big deal, and I am not delusional for pointing out facts.

Get yours straight.

The difference between VHS and DVD was *phenomenal*. The difference between upconverted DVD and HD is minuscule by comparison.

Of *course* I didn't stick by VHS (though I still own a 6-head toshiba), my first DVD player was purchased early on for over $300.

The "deal" is that very few people see a need, or even have the desire.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 9:09 PM

anyone that says unconverted DVD is anywhere near the quality of HD media has seriously lost their minds...especially to say the difference is minuscule...

720x480 compared 1920x1080....its simple math people...upconverting is substituting information that is simply not there...your DVD player is simply adding hundreds and hundreds of lines worth of pixels to the image in an attempt to create an HD image...that is no substitute what so over for a proper HD image where that information is actually there in the picture...

Score: 0

By preinterpost

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:15 AM

You have no clue about the human sensory system do you? Actually I think it was previously established you have no clue in general.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 9:31 AM

*yawn*

Again...who cares?

On my 42", SD DVD upconverted looks just fine.

I see no need to spend hundreds of dollars on a new format, and neither do the majority of others.

Upconverted SD DVD is "good enough" for most folks. Sorry, it's the truth.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 9:21 AM

PAL is 720 by 576.

There's no point you raging away about this.

I have seen outstanding 1080p and I've seen unremarkable 1080p.
The unremarkable stuff could easily have been upscaled SD DVD.

The bulk of the HD TV market is only ever going to be 32" - 50" (and right now those sets are, overwhelmingly 720p/1080i).
So upscale is always going to look pretty good there.

Which is why many people are quite happy to use upscaled SD DVD.

HD DVD can make the change, it's cheap enough fast enough - and Twin discs and combos mean no-one gets left behind in the change either.

Blu-ray simply cannot do this.

If Blu-ray were to win (a massive 'if') they will merely ensure HDMs on disc remain a niche product, mainly the preserve of the PS3 crowd.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 10:12 AM

yeah PAL is a different siz, but pretty irrelevant to the argument...

I totally agree...1080p is technically just a resolution....a high quality 720p transfer will blow away a low quality 1080p transer...this is true resolution is not the end all be all of the process...

I'd also like to know how Blu ray ensures a niche market...maybe in your mind...because you don't like Sony...but if BD is destined to be a niche market...what does it say about HD-DVD when they couldn't sell more discs for even one week in 2007....and only 2 major studios support the format? Talk about niche market...

look, im not saying upscaled DVD is bad...hell I think Lord of The Rings looks STUNNING upscaled to 1080i on my TV...i was blown away the first time i saw it upscaled...but its simply NOT HD...I don't understand why you would spend the money for an HDTV and then use an inferior product...upscaled is NOT HD...plain and simple...the information required to make it HD is still not there...the DVD player can try to fake it...but its still quasi-HD....

The problem really is people are so bent out of shape because HD-DVD looks to be a lost cause...its a shame really...would you be using the upscaled DVD excuse if HD-DVD had "won?"...i really doubt it...it all stems from blind hatred of Sony....the twin discs are nice...and would be TOTALLY possible on blu-ray if the HD-DVD group would let go of the thread they are holding onto and switch...that would free up DVD/Blu-ray combo discs to be possibly created...but until the HD-DVD group allows this it simply cannot happen....

if anyone is going to ensure that HD Media becomes a niche market it is people like you that refuse to buy a product because its made by Sony, or Toshiba themselves for blindly fighting a lost cause...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:05 PM

"yeah PAL is a different siz, but pretty irrelevant to the argument..."

- Not really.
I agree it's partly real enthusiasts stuff but some serious movie enthusiasts love to get PAL capable players & discs not only because it allows a wider choice but also because the resolution is almost 25% higher the upscale is better.

Obviously that also applies generally in the PAL countries too - upscale just looks better here and the European public sees that and so has less to be unhappy with upscale about.

"I'd also like to know how Blu ray ensures a niche market"

- Because if you don't have a PS3 right now you've left yourself wide open for huge problems with regular disc playback when the profile 2.0 discs come.

It's a tragic state of affairs that Blu-ray is so utterly dependent on a game console.

The fact that it so obviously is highlights just how outside of the genuine a/v mass-market Blu-ray is - and will remain.

More PS3 sales (even if the owners do buy Blu-ray movies) does not shift Blu-ray 1 cm closer to the a/v mass-market.

They can't even ensure a proper range of price/spec profile 2.0 players this year (Denon keep on delaying their profile 2.0 player - and if they can't get it to work properly with the high quality components they use what chance anyone else?).

BTW, please tell me you're going to buy a Daewoo (if they ever appear), I can't wait to hear what a laughable POS it is.

"because you don't like Sony"

- Actually it's nothing to do with 'liking' a CE corporation
(which is a pretty weird concept in my book for a start).

It's actually to do with loathing Blu-ray as a format itself.

I loath the explicit greed inherent in it's concept (to return the CE corps to the level of margins they had when DVD began) and I loath the design philosophy
(with it's outrageous treatment of the consumer as necessitating several layers of expensive, pointless and ultimately problematic so-called 'security').

I loath the entire thing being done through a game console and I loath the manner in which they have fought this war.

But ultimately I loath the fact that Blu-ray is, by far, the least consumer friendly of the 2 formats.

It has b*gger-all to do with liking or not liking Sony - although having said that their track record of illegal actions
(like their root kits - which had it been done by a private individual would have resulted in custodial sentencing)
and repeated attempts to impose their own silly proprietary products on the market don't exactly lead me to have a favourable estimation of them.

"if BD is destined to be a niche market...what does it say about HD-DVD when they couldn't sell more discs for even one week in 2007"

- That doesn't follow.

Blu-ray is not going to be a niche product because of the relatively small number of discs it has sold
(even if that relatively small number of discs is larger than the amount HD DVD has sold to date).

That is why the grand sweeping claims by the blu-ray supporters are so absurd at this stage.

Neither format has performed well to date.

But that does not alter the fact that HD DVD has several fundamental advantages that Blu-ray does not and never will have.

A proper range of complete & fully spec'd players, much lower costs and the ability to incorporate SD DVD in either the Twin disc or the combo being prime.

"only 2 major studios support the format? Talk about niche market."

- You might have something if it were true but it isn't.

HD DVD has the support of the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios (by back-catalogue) and over 50 other studios.

How in earth they can be described as a niche product when they offer more available & exclusive content than Blu-ray (if one utilises
HD DVD's region-free every time ability & imports) I really don't know.

Blu-ray being stuck in the game console market is about as niche as it gets - it sure as hell isn't as broad & general a market as the real a/v mass-market.

"I don't understand why you would spend the money for an HDTV and then use an inferior product...upscaled is NOT HD"

- But its not just about resolution, it's about catalogue, cost and convenience.

It'll be many years before high def (of any type) can even come close to offering the catalogue SD DVD does so upscale & SD DVD will be relevant for very long time yet.
Right now each high def format (in western markets) combined can offer around 1000 titles, compared to IIRC about 90,000 SD DVD titles = 90/1.

Besides I'm not replacing my movie collection (currently around 600 titles).
Forget it, I'm just not.

I also want HD TV services (HD on my HD TV all the time) so thanks to my DVR with a nice big HDD optical discs are not my only source of HD movies
(and the quality, whilst variable, is sometimes excellent).

"The problem really is people are so bent out of shape because HD-DVD looks to be a lost cause"

- That's just you refusing to accept that some of us feel we have excellent reasons to avoid Blu-ray and we will never buy into it.

Hard luck that's how it is.

Sadly for the Blu-ray fans because there are a lot of us we will help ensure Blu-ray does not take off fast enough to ever escape the niche.

You're dreaming if you imagine my mum & dad are going to buy a PS3 as their next DVD player and I'll certainly not be encouraging them to look at the incomplate mess that are the current Blu-ray standalones with their profile nonsense.

would you be using the upscaled DVD excuse if HD-DVD had "won?"

- They are sound reasons, not excuses.

If you can't accept that then we have no discussion.

HD DVD simply does not have or do a lot of the harmful things Blu-ray has & can do
(and if certain parties stay true to form) probably will end up doing.

"it all stems from blind hatred of Sony"

- Sorry but I think this says more about you than anything else.

Frankly if you are an ordinary consumer then I think you have to be a bit f*cked up in the head if you seriously claim to 'love' or 'hate' CE corporations.

"the twin discs are nice...and would be TOTALLY possible on blu-ray if the HD-DVD group would let go of the thread they are holding onto and switch"

- Why should they?

That's like me saying HD DVD would be perfectly viable if Blu-ray would agree that all studios could go format neutral.

In fact be honest & admit it, HD DVD would win this in the blink of an eye if they were ever to agree to a genuine studio neutrality like that.

No, f*ck 'em, they can go to hell.

They wanted a dirty war so let them have exactly what they wanted.

I'd advise everyone on the HD DVD side to do nothing to make it easy for them & certainly don't actually give the b*stards anything - and absolutely not the 'Crown Jewels' that Twin disc & combos are.

They can get stuffed & reap what they sowed.

"that would free up DVD/Blu-ray combo discs to be possibly created...but until the HD-DVD group allows this it simply cannot happen"

- Ain't going to happen so forget about it.

This is just another indication of just what a pi$$-poor choice Blu-ray is for the vast majority of us.

This is a massive point too - as anyone who ever took a movie round to a friend's or family home to share knows very well.

Blu-ray hasn't got it. Awwwwww.

"if anyone is going to ensure that HD Media becomes a niche market it is people like you that refuse to buy a product because its made by Sony"

- That's just you returning to your starting BS.

Blu-ray was f*cked all on it's own by itself long before people like me decided we would never buy into it.

It's got nothing to do with me deciding not to buy Sony products out of some kind of irrational dislike.

I invariably choose other people's products because the Sony product is usually a poor balance of price/value/features
(which incidentally I found out again only a couple of weeks back when I bought a new HD TV; for a similar spec Sony wanted £300/$600 more than the set I bought = no chance of a sale).

It has nothing to do with not 'liking' Sony.

"or Toshiba themselves for blindly fighting a lost cause."

- Says you.

HD DVD hardware is selling very well in the USA (& the UK for that matter) as the Amazon (USA & UK) stats show (and Play.com in the UK too).

I hope Toshiba stay in this fight, it's still all very early days
(neither format have anything even close to sales approaching 1% of the annual movie disc sales numbers).

If HD DVD hardware continues to sell very nicely then all bets are off.

Notice how Warner have not delayed The Brave One by the 3 weeks they said they would - and that it is being released as a combo when they said they were giving those up at the end of 2007.

Post-dated promises are not the most trustworthy - especially as it is now obvious that their original idea when they double-crossed HD DVD (of forcing everyone Blu-ray) has obviously failed.

Score: 0

By chia-homer

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 5:56 PM

look at this size of your comment. what is that like a thousand words? nobody reads comments that long. get a life you idiot. stop acting like what you have to say means something to anybody but you.

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

posted Feb 8, 2008 - 2:59 AM

What?

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 12:10 PM

"I don't understand why you would spend the money for an HDTV and then use an inferior product..."

And there lies the problem. I think its fair to say that you and I are AV enthusiasts (we wouldn't be debating the topic otherwise). The vast majority of people, though, are not. The average joe wants something that looksand sounds decent, where you and I want something that looks great. Whether its HD from satellite or cable, or upscaled DVD, the average person is satisfied. Until the average consumer has the same passion for this hobby that we do, 'good enough' is just that...good enough.

Score: 0

By timatl

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 9:03 AM

i don't think he was just talking about the picture quaility.

*adding the 5.1 surround sound
*adding much more clarity to sound
*adding much more clarity to the video image
*being able to skip to a scene (not fast forward)
*Add special features.
*Adding mutiple languages to one disc
*Adding alternate endings
*Digital vs Analog
*Long life

It was a bigger jump from VHS to DVD than DVD to HD optical disc.

Although most people lost the clock on the VCR

Score: 0

By wreckedchevy

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 2:02 AM

just watched at worlds end upconverted on my a20 and it looked really freakin good to me

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 8:43 PM

There comes the fanboy again...if you paid attention Pc Tool is not using either format and could care less about either, nice try on the spin though.

Joe average does not care about HD formats hell even HDTVs are still not selling like crazy yet.

Until HDTVs become the norm HD formats are not going to enter the average consumer UNLESS its cheap, now if HD-DVD continues to go down in price and everyone buys it, it would be suicide to the studios to ignore the format.

Until Toshiba says its over, its not, so wait until there is a definite instead of speculating.

Except VHS and DVD was a huge leap, no more fast forwarding trying to get to the next scene, no swapping out media because it didn't fit on one medium, able to skip through what you want, has a menu system to select what you want to do, audio formats....etecetc, now with HD the main advantage is a better picture - hence DVD being good enough.

The only movies that benefit from the HD format is sci-fi, action, adventure and maybe horror who needs a comedy or drama in HD?

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 9:00 PM

yet even though DVD was such a HUGE leap over VHS like you said it took more than 7 years!! 7 years!! for it to catch VHS in yearly sales....to dismiss HD Media is the same as going back to 1998 and saying DVD will never catch on, its a niche market...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 9:26 AM

The comparison is bogus.

DVD was never bundled right at the start with a game console bound to sell in the millions thanks to it's brand name alone - and nor was it available as an add-on selling in the several hundred thousand.

...and in case you didn't know at the same stage in it's life DVD was actually ahead of where Blu-ray & HD DVD are now.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:00 AM

MANY people got their first taste of DVD upon the release of the Playstation 2...the PS2 had a large impact on the devlopment of the DVD format...regardless of wether or not you want to believe it...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 12:20 PM

Wow.

Facts much?

DVD: 1995
PS2: 2000.

PS2 had *zero* impact on the "DVD format".

So, 5 years *after* DVD came out, "MANY people got their first taste of DVD "??

Sounds like you just made hocuspokus's point.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 1:52 PM

DVD did not outsell VHS untill...wait for it...2003!!...hey...3 years into the lifecycle of the highest selling video game console of all time...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 4:54 PM

So by your *own* statements here, since HD is so much better, and a console supporting the format already exists, Blu-Ray should be ahead of DVD sometime next year (having been released in 2006).

Huh....

You'll have to excuse my laughter.

Score: 0

By Hellcat_M

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:28 PM

"how come the oh so consumer friendly HD-DVD group is not informing its consumers that they will NEVER be able to purchase 80+% of high definition movies??"

That is SOOO bull, do you just make this stuff up? My friend has the HD-DVD addon and yes he has to use his 360 in puts but it plays HD-DVD movies fine on his Pioneer Elite plasma.

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 3:02 PM

Hellcat, he's referring to studio support...

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 7:16 PM

thanks for clarifying that for me....what im saying is that 80% of movies will never be released on HD-DVD...not that the add-on can't play HD-DVD movies...

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 12:00 PM

For a moment there, I though Hellcat_M made the post.

Oh wait ....

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Feb 6, 2008 - 8:58 PM

It's still BS.

Universal, Paramount & all the other (approx 60) movie studios that support HD DVD have more than 20% of the total possible movie catalogue.

In fact right now (if you import) HD DVD offers the most available & exclusive content.

But let's be serious here, the total content available on HDMs (both formats) is minute compared to the SD DVD available catalogue.

Then there are HD TV services & the DVRs that go with them.

HD on your brand new HD TV all the time
is a hell of an attractive proposition for most new HD TV owners compared to an occasional expensive Blu-ray disc for a format still firmly rooted to an over-priced kids game console......

........ and which is still totally unable to field a proper range of mass-market-friendly priced supposedly 'final spec' profile 2.0 players
(I hear they just announced a new profile 3.0 for audio stuff, mmmmm consumer-friendly, not. As per.).

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 9:19 PM

Check your facts Hocus....Warner controls a HUGE portion of the market share when it comes to home theater sales...absolutely HUGE...probably bigger than Paramount and Universal combined, or at least close...then add to that all the other BD exclusives (Disney, Sony, Fox, and on and on) and you have a VERY BD heavy industry...

Import or not the fact that HD-DVD might currently have the most available content will become totally irrelevant within months...Warner will no longer be releasing films on HD-DVD....and the small European studios are falling like dominos to the BD side...its only a matter of time before Paramount and Universal have to fold for financial reasons...

yeah HD all the time...except for a couple things...there are no cable companies that offer even a quarter of their digital SD channels in HD versions and don't expect that to change any time soon...no broadcasts are made in 1080p resolution....some are still 720p (the ESPN/ABC family)...and even the HD broadcasts are compressed heavily to save bandwidth...a 720p signal from a BD or HD-DVD player will look much better than the compressed image your getting in 720p from ESPNHD....

Blu-ray discs are no more expensive than DVD's were this early into their life cycle....and not to mention that over-priced kids game console outsold that other kids game console that costs a lot less (360) in 2007....

harp on and on about profiles...the older players will still play the movies...Toshiba will never release the 51GB TL HD-DVD, Universal will be the next big studio to defect and HD Media will continue to grow, and eventually surpass SDDVD just as DVD surpassed VHS....it just takes time...anyone buying HD media right now is still very much an early adopter...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 8:30 AM

"Check your facts Hocus"

- The fact is that you are doing what most of the Blu-ray fanclub do in this.

You equating last years box office share with the catalogues each studio has available.

Well in terms of movies they could release Universal & Paramount are the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios.

Together they have over 40% of the potential catalogue alone.

You're also ignoring the fact that even though Blu-ray have people like Fox & New Line signed up they do not release many films anyway - so much for their potential if they never bring it to market.

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:03 AM

you are right, but for the time being the catalogs are staying relatively shut...as high def sales pick up this will change...but for now current box office share is the most important fact...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:14 PM

"for the time being the catalogs are staying relatively shut...as high def sales pick up this will change...but for now current box office share is the most important fact"

- That's a ludicrous statement.

How can cinema box office have anything much significant to do with anything when neither side are releasing anything beyond a small fraction of their catalogues?

You can hardly claim that HD DVD have little to offer compared to Blu-ray when both have around 500 titles available - and even those represent such a minute fraction of the potential catalogues.

Score: 0

By Danno

edited Feb 7, 2008 - 12:44 AM

"Warner controls a HUGE portion of the market share when it comes to home theater sales...absolutely HUGE...probably bigger than Paramount and Universal combined,"
stop drinking the brown water you'll its affecting your mental health.

"its only a matter of time before Paramount and Universal have to fold for financial reasons."

You have been stating this since last month yet both studios have no interest in switching. Keep babbling about this and we shall see if this happens near the death of the Disk market before its overtaken by HDOD because if they're smart they too will take Sony for the more monies which they will have to compensate in the Laserdisk outlets.

"Universal will be the next big studio to defect"

Here we go with your claim again and yet they have officially stated to the public that they have no interest in doing so and continue to support HDDVD. You will then try and read in between the lines and make up conclusions with your fanboi sony friends or alias (probably all doing a circle jerk in the same room)

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 7, 2008 - 10:02 AM

of course they are going to state this publically..Paramount is under contract with HD-DVD...saying they plan to switch to BD is more than likely a breach of contract...thats simple business....nothing to do with their actual motives....

Hollywood claimed for months that Warner was going HD-DVD exclusive...woops...

Score: 0

By bakura

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:12 PM

I'm not so sure that this would be considered a "price cut". That would imply that this is now their permanent price. It's not. It was Amazon.com's 'Deal of the Day', which is a one day sale.

However, MS did lower the price to $129.99 today (from $179.99) for the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive.

http://majornelson.com/a...drop-now-us-129-99.aspx

Score: 0

By jgaylord

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 1:10 PM

I just checked and the price is now $155.67

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 12:13 PM

Great news ... I think the Death of HD-DVD is greatly exaggerated and its good some life in it yet if Toshiba will perceiver with it. Its in the hands of the studios, and if it can at least keep the support it has then all is not lost. Once the far east players take effect the others should see sense and support the format to hopefully take control of the niche HD format.

Clutching at straws or wishful thinking ... anything but a sony format. Come on HD-DVD.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 8:59 PM

True.

As we can see with hardware & movies, if they get the pricing right these things sell in volume & at speed.

......and it's about time they started doing it seriously.

Score: 0

By ladylust

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 11:55 AM

Im not sure if the Xbox HD-DVD player up converts, but if it does - its worth it even if the movie support isnt there for HD-DVD.

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 6, 2008 - 3:05 PM

The add-on will upconvert S-DVD if your 360 is connected via HDMI (or DVI on the older models). IMO it was an ok upscaler (mine was connected via DVI); but the HD-A2 and HD-A3 do a much better job of it, overall.

Score: 0

By Skyfrog

edited Feb 6, 2008 - 2:32 PM

Yes, it does. However I believe the 360 itself will upconvert if you use HDMI or VGA cables. I'm not certain of that though, but the HD DVD addon definately will.

Score: 0

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