Its always fun to watch the Windows and Linux zealots scramble to bash something they maintain no one cares about and that doesn't matter.

If that were indeed true, we wouldn't hear from them at all.

schadenfreude:

A malicious satisfaction obtained
from the misfortunes of others.

In other words:

Yeah, but it sure is fun to watch.

This is nice but I'm more interested in 10.5, aka the OS that will show just what an embarrsment Vista really is.

Huh? Tiger already shows Vista to be an embarrassment!

LOL.

MacOSX is the embarrassment, talk about lack of decent software support...

Go try Vista for yourself before you make a statement like that. Don't depend on your high and mighty ruler Mr. Apple CEO to tell how great Mac OS is compared to Vista. You know he will tell you anything to sell Mac OS to you. He is probably shaking in his boots over Vista. I don't mean to sound like I'm saying Mac OS is a crap OS. It's not. It's good. Vista is good. Which one is better? I don't know for sure, due to limited use of either OS. But find out for yourself instead of reading for other truth twisting, ill informed Mac zealots. This whole argument is getting old. Grow up people.

I use OS X, Windows, and Linux heavily all day in my job - have used all three for years (including pre OS X versions which were clearly not stable) - we have a number of people who've looked closely at Vista. So among our team, we do not have "limited use of either OS", we have SIGNIFICANT experience with them all.

So my comments are not coming from reading about "ill informed Mac zealots". They're based on REAL EXPERIENCE.

this is very nice news

Just a little 'premonition' here... mark my words:

Apple will release OSX 10.5 for PC as well.

That's the big surprise they got for Vista's lauch next year.

Remember i said that first ;)

It would be nice but I don't think it will happen. Apple is a hardware company, they make their money selling computers and gadgets. OS X is just the bait to get people to buy Macs, if they released it for all computers what market share the Macintosh has would dry up overnight. It would also throw a huge burden on them to have to support all the different PC hardware in the world.

God, I hope not.

They don't need to. They have Windows running on the Mac just fine (for my needs -- I don't have time to waste on gaming so I can't speak to that audience). The poster talking about Apple being a hardward company is nearer to point -- they want to control the entire user experience, and they can't waste energy trying to keep up with the specs of thousands of cheap PC addons. So they stick to hundreds on the Mac world (most of which come from the Wintel world -- and concentrate on making them work. This isn't about Mac vs Windows, it's about functional software that works with hardware. The bigots on both sides lose sight of the distinction: your pen1s isn't smaller just because you don't drive the other guys computer. But your brain might be a bit less frazzled if you don't have to repair/reimage/disinfect or figure out the latest IRQ conflict hidden in your system. Some people like to drive Chevys -- and love tinkering under the hood every weekend. Some people drive Camrys and just like to turn the key and go. Get over yourselves already.

Spot on. Apple don't want or need to deal with the poorly designed hardware we so often see added to PCs. Just last week I was building a new Core 2 Duo system, only to find the RAM purchased for said system needed another type of RAM first to install it. (Yay for DDR2-800 :P).

It would be foolish of Apple to unlock OSX and allow people to install it on any machine - they would lose the advantage of controlled & stable hardware.

"They don't need to. They have Windows running on the Mac ..."
True, but like me... I like to build my computer. I still can't build a computer that can run the MacOS on it. I've never bought a pre-built (Dell, HP, Compaq ect.) comptuer and never will.

"the Wintel world ..."
Actually, you can't (or shouldn't) call it that anymore. :-) Intel makes processors for Mac's now too.

Apple would never do that in a million years.

Yes. Definately.

Good luck with that.

This is another example Mac user in denial.

People have hacked OS X to make it work on a Windows box - no idea how stable that approach is though.

Who cares, Mac usage is very small (less than 4%), and on the decline...

The people that don't care usually don't bother to read the article or post a reply. That leaves the people that really are interested in whatever the subject is, and the ignorant trolls that just want attention. I wonder which one you are?

And I wonder which one you are!

Are you really that naive?

What if it said Sony Mac, then whould you care?

dvferret, he's the one that came up with an intelligent reply to an obvious troll, who ran away as usual when someone calls him out on his stupid posts. Meanwhile you are the lamer that comes along a day later and posts something stupid in your own weak attempt at trolling. I'm the jerk that wastes his time feeding attention to people like you because I have nothing better to do. I don't do encores though so flame away, it will be in vain. I hope that covers it all for you, have a nice day.

Why did you reply then? Stupid.

Where is your support for this claim?

According to several companies who are in the business of actually measuring such things (Gartner, IDC, others), Mac marketshare is increasing - its growth rate in 2006 was over 15%, going from about 4% to 4.8%

Proof is in the pudding my friend. People are buying Mac hardware, but then they putting Windows or Ubuntu on them. Bottom line is Mac has turned themselves into a cheap PC manufacturer by selling good looking, high performance PC's without the added cost of including Windows with the system. The guy I spoke to down at the computer store told me a big company in town just bought like 100 of them and put them in their office as Windows workstations. Not one person in their office used or wanted OS10.

I got an older Mac Powerbook G4 a few weeks ago and couldn't stand how slow OX10 and Open Source apps ran on it, so I switched to Ubuntu and it runs about 3 times faster now, and its actually usable. Plus the USB wirelsss adapter I had runs perfectly fine with zero config on Ubuntu.

Mac OS is finally dead!! Death to HUGE icons!!

What is your basis for this claim? Most people have already observed that Mac hardware is too expensive to use "just" to run Windows, or even Linux. One company buying Macs instead of PCs and running Windows is hardly proof of a decline - more likely it's proof of stupidity.

Certainly, people are using the Parallels system (I am) to get occasional access to a critical app on Windows that doesn't (yet) exist under OS X.

As for older Macs, we're not talking about them, just as we're not talking about OS 9 and earlier.

Only 3-5 more months 'till you have to shell out again for the new operating system.

I sure hope your pockets are deep enough to contain all that change.

Time to start saving now.

Yeah, but better than microsoft does. 5 years til a new release, put an insane requirement to take advantage of all features, and then charge $499 for all the features. Apple only charges $139 for everything, the updates are timely, and you can run it on whatever specs you have.

vista will be shipping around the same time (barring any more delays), and the cost for an UPGRADE to home basic is $129. you might want to start deciding which kidney to sell if you want more than that. the basic doesn't include aero, media center, or any of the other goodies you really want. on the other hand, you get front row, ilife, and a bunch of other useful apps for the $139. the apple deal sounds better...

The cost of software (Vista in this case) is nothing when compare to the cost of getting a Mac. Mac cost twice as much as a PC running the same specs. With that in mind, Vista look pretty cheap, and not to mention all update are free of charge.

What decade are you living in? Same spec machines are equal cost. My Dell laptop cost more for the same specs than my MacBook. Lame ignorance is no starting point for a debate, or reasoned purchase. Apple isn't everything to everyone (there's a reason I own macs and pcs, but with the MacBook and bootcamp, I no longer even power up the Dell. Time to eBay the Dell since it won't run Vista.

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Dells are more expensive than Macs of similar configuration. Have a look:

http://www.systemshootou...p/2006/0809_dt3200.html

You are referring to the high-end config where margins are higher. Apple obviously deliberately made this model cheaper than Dell so that they can claim that "Macs are cheaper than Dells" (marketing).

Go to the same site, check out the rest of the comparisons. And you will get a better picture.

$139 x 5 releases = $695 (I can't remember if it's 5, so let's pretend it's 4; that still = $556)

Vista Ultimate (full) costs $399.00 (check here: http://www.amazon.com/Mi...?ie=UTF8&s=software ) before quoting random figures.

Now you're really telling me it's cheaper to have a Mac? That's without adding on the Hardware cost.

I've had 5 years to save for Vista (which, frankly, wasn't really difficult).

So actually, your front row and whatnot (which I'm not saying is crap, I do use Macs) actually cost $556 at the least (because 10.x.9 is always the last release, they just can't be bothered making it any better after that, they'd rather charge you a s***load more money).

And if it wasn't for the "insane" requirements of Vista, we'd still end up with ****ing Celeron processors, 256MB of RAM and 32MB Graphics cards everywhere. It means good PCs will become even cheaper.

Yes, as a long time Mac user (and Windows and Linux so I'm not biased), one thing I don't like is the way Apple charges for its OS upgrades - it seems a bit expensive.

Actually Macs are a lot cheaper because they dont have to include Windows in the package, but then when you get it home install windows if you like or Ubuntu, and you got yourself a nice, fast, cheap PC.

Mac is dead, they are a hardware maker now like Dell or HP, nothing more.

Blast!

Now I gotta find the 10.4.8 update for AMD based PC.

Thanks to the JaS team, I'm running 10.4.7 on my Athlon 64 PC flawlessly. The only issue I have is it didn't recognize my onboard Creative Live! 24 Bit sound card, so I have no sound.

Oh well, I wasn't planning on using it for audio applications anyways, I just wanted to use it for my graphics work. Creative Suite 2, Studio 8, and Quark 7 run so much better in Mac OS X. Not to mention I'm able to use Final Cut Studio 5 now.

I'm not anti-Apple, I'm anti-Microsoft and anti-Intel.

If Apple was smart, they would take the cue from the JaS team and release Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) for AMD based PCs. They'd see a lot more people switch to Mac OS X that way.

Like I've always said:
You'd have a perfect computer if you could install OS X on a Dell.

Watch out for those batteries though.

Ew.

Dells are arguably the worst PCs around. :P Even tried getting service outside warranty? You can't even pay them to fix it! Tried upgrading one? Tried getting components to fix one?

White-box is always a better option, IMO. At least components are generic and easily replaced.

Although that's Sony's fault, not Dell's (if you didn't know, there Sony batteries). I'm just pointing out.

Dell is and always has been the worst PC maker on earth, mainly due to all the proprietary crap they use. Ask anyone who does service work on computers, he'lll telll you a few Dell stories. Man they suck.

"The company said that on Intel-based Macs, the update would require two restarts, ..."

They ripped that feature from MS and tried to go one better :P

+++SARCASM +++

lol

LOL, isnt that the truth.

hehe

I just lik the comments and responses, regardless of which side you take.

for the record I'm pro MS/Windows...though I'm not anti Mac...I am anti Mac supremacy/supremacists. We've had enough of the Nazis....eehh, runs and hides

You say that like Mac Supremacy, or any "tech" supremacy is going to lead to violence and war like religious or racial supremacy. And the people fueling the supremacy crap happen to be the company's CEO.

All this arguing over a stupid issue. Why do people find the need to to start bashing the OS just cause an update was released? It's getting old.

I thought Macs didn't need updates? That's what the commercials say...

...you don't listen very well because Apple never said anything like that.

You Windows fanboys will hear anything...

"Apple never said anything like that."

You mean "it just works" doesn't mean "it just works"?

Well, I guess since there are fixes, it doesn't "just work".

I was making a joke. You Mac fanboys will read into anything...

It just works.

After the update it will just work... better.

What's the problem?

it's all about mac denial...

when a pc crashes a pc user says it crashed...
when a mac crashes a mac user will say...nuhuh, it's just waitin...and stuff

hehe

But your comment applies aptly to Windows on a constant basis...the old adage there's always room for improvement. Windows always gets better and there's no denying. To infinity and beyond!

Yes I'm a nut...I sometimes don't feel like it though...

My Mac doesn't crash.

And as if by magic the point is proved.

My Windows don't crash, so what's your point?

Windows has more problems because there are so much 3rd party programs. When Mac get to where Windows is, then we can compare.

Yup, same here. My Windows doesn't crash.

Now, it has crashed on my previos computers because of all the 3rd party crap I had installed on them.

My Windows box crashes from time to time...sometimes explorer just dies (or MS tells me it's closing explorer to protect me:-)
In other cases, I've run into problems where a misbehaving app won't "let go" of the window manager, thereby stopping me from using any other apps.

And yes, sometimes Windows just BSODs on me.

My Macbook crashed yesterday too - or actually it claimed it didn't shut down properly....first time I've seen this.

However, Macs crash much less frequently than do Windows and the reasons are mostly architectural.

Ubuntu is gonna kick both your OS's butts, so chew on that for a while. Oh, and its free unlike yours, and it always will be.

Its gonna be a different PC world in a year or so, Ubuntu + crossover = happinness.

It's not really Windows that's really making it crash. It's the software that you put on it that makes it crash.

Don't forget the poorly made drivers
for the equally piss-poor hardware.

Mac fanboy!!!

Just because the hardware runs on Windows, doesn't make it piss poor. If I get a plextor DVD burner, does it make it suck because I stuck it into a PC? But if I stick it in a Mac it's the best burner ever made? That logic doesn't make any since, just the usual fanboyism.

I don't see anything wrong with the Windows driver either. How are they poor?

No response, Mark?

Err, I mean Real1tyczech.

...

What a contrast: Apple releases a new point version
of the Mac OS every six days. Microsoft waits for
six years to do anything !

...

The Computer Rodent

...

"Microsoft waits for six years to do anything !"

HA HA HA ... I laughed so much I nearly fell off my chair. So MS hasnt done anything for 6 years huh ?

Fool.

Windows XP Service Pack 1, Windows XP Service Pack 2, Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, Windows Server 2003, Server 2003 SP1, Server 2003 R2, Server 2003 x64, Windows XP x64 Edition, Windows FLP for legacy PCs.

It's comments like that that reveal your true age Mr. Rat.

You nearly have everyone fooled that you're knowledgeable, but then you blow it by being silly.

I hope you have fun at playschool, and the other kids don't bully you for pretending to be a know it all.

You forgot Windows XP Tablet PC Edition.

and you were where exactly when SP1 and SP2 came out?

And Windows XP Embedded and the stripped-down version for the whiny European Commission.

No, they have bought a lot of companies who actually do make software good, but like all the other software companies they have bought over the years, this latest batch will be ignored by MS and their user base will all leave and go to Open Source apps instead.

MS is the greatest supporter for Open Source I have ever seen! By cutting support for all the products they buy and try to integrate, they leave people with no choice but to use open source!

God I love MS, they is sooo smrt.

Now I understand why the mac commercials say they cant get a virus, the OS gets updated as often as an Anti-Virus gets new dat files. Could you imageine for every patch MS releases it calls it a "New version of the OS" Like, Windows XP 5.1.2686 oh...wait make that 5.1.2689..that'll be another $100 please...no its a new OS...not a service pack.

And windows gets patched/updated every tuesday. I smell windows fanboy logic...

If you think that 10.4 is just a service pack update to 10.3 then you obveously have NEVER even touched OSTiger. Come back when you know somthing...LOL@ignorance

So what if the OS gets security updates or releases a version update. It's just to improve performance to the system. It has nothing to do with new viruses that come out. Most of the viruses are targeted toward windows users not OS X users.

"Most of the viruses are targeted toward windows users not OS X users."

You nailed it. You know why? Because Mac is insignificant. No virus writers in their right mind will spend their time trying to create minimum damage

Oh please! Let's not get into that topic. If macs are insignificant then why is windows more unstable and unsecure out of the box? Just because windows gets more viruses than a 2 dollar hook3r doesn't make it superior or significant. Why waste time trying to break down a stable unix core OS when you can just crash another windows PC?

"Let's not get into that topic."
Lets.

"If macs are insignificant then why is windows more unstable and unsecure out of the box?"
There not, unless you connect them to the internet (or install crap software, like Quicktime). But anyway, just like he said earlier; why waste time making a virus that won't infect.

"Just because windows gets more viruses than a 2 dollar hook3r doesn't make it superior or significant."
No one said it did.

"Why waste time trying to break down a stable unix core OS when you can just crash another windows PC?"
Just like he said, why waste time making a virus that won't infect.

I don't think you read the other posts right.

You're correct; if you don't connect a computer to the internet then you are free from viruses. Who do you know, seriously, that has a computer that doesn't connect to the internet?

About the superior/significant think: read the post again. you'll see.

That was my point though. You asked "why is windows more unstable and unsecure out of the box?"

I was saying it's not. Only when you connect it to the internet, unless you know how to protect yourself.

I did miss the significant part though :-)

Hmm..I guess my idea of "out of the box" is setup and connect to the net.

At least you added some humor to the thread....good call.

Is this Apple or MS? Oh the price of "success."