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Apple Introduces Intel-Based Mac Pro

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

August 7, 2006, 1:43 PM

At the company's Worldwide Developer Conference in San Francisco Monday, Apple officially completed its transition to the Intel platform, introducing the Mac Pro to replace the aging G5 PowerMac. Apple says a similar machine from Dell costs $1,000 more.

The launch marks 210 days since Apple began shipping its first Intel based systems, with the planned switch announced at last year's WWDC. Analysts feared at the time that Apple would take a major hit in sales during the process, but the results have proved otherwise.

The new Mac Pro features two dual-core Intel "Woodcrest" processors, branded as the Xeon 5100 series. Processor speeds will initially reach 3GHz, with 4MB of shared L2 cache. Like their G5 predecessors, the Mac Pro will be fully 64-bit, but 1.6 to 2.1 times faster than the quad-processor PowerMac.

Apple has kept the same G5 PowerMac case for the Mac Pro, adding another optical drive and new hard drive carriers to insert them without tools. 4 PCI Express slots are included, along with a double-height graphics slot at the bottom for larger graphics cards.

In its standard configuration, the 2.66GHz dual Mac Pro with 1GB of RAM, Superdrive and 250GB hard drive will run $2,499 USD. Apple is also offering complete build-to-order option with up to 3GHz CPUs, 16GB of RAM, 2TB of hard disk space, and graphics up to an ATI X1900 or Nvidia FX4500.

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By Banquo

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 1:50 PM

"The launch marks 210 days since Apple began shipping its first Intel based systems"

Has it really been that long?

Score: 0

By Acefire

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:55 AM

I hope that some crazy programmer will make a software that can make PC computers dual boot to Apple's Mac OS X Tiger ... that way one can save some cash and have their upgrades at their convienience .....

Score: 0

By GCoder

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 10:36 AM

Its out already.

Its called the OSx86 10.4.6 JAS install (with dual boot dawin loader)

I Dual boot XP and OSX on my Vaio.

Score: 0

By Parvas24

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:50 AM

I feel that Mac destop computers are becoming very expensive ... but considering that Apple makes reliable and good computers ... not mention the awesome operating system Mac OS X Tiger ,that is immune to the viruses and adwares that affect PC computers ... also Mac OS X Tiger has advanced features tthat Windows does not have for the next few years .....plus one can dual boot to Windows XP if you really want to .... actually Apple builds computers with a higher performance even though some say that the graphics card is not on the higher end the Apple computer engineers have optimised their system for high performance on these machines and if you run Windows XP on MacBook PRO one can see that Windows runs faster than on regular PC's ... the bottom line is that Mac computers are a bit more expensive compared to regular PC 's like Dell or HP with the same specs but remember you get to run both Apple OS X Tiger and also dual boot to Windows XP if you need ... in other words two for the price of one !!! the choice is yours .....

Score: 0

By Arbulus

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:44 PM

The thing here is that Apple computers are built solidly. There are well designed and made with cutting edge technology. They are as solidly built, as secure, and as advanced as you can get in a computer. You can buy your average PC right now, but in a year or two, you're gunna have to buy another one, because the computer is either so outdated or spyware and viruses had destroyed it to the point that it no longer functions well.

Conversely, if one were to buy a Mac right now, it will last for years to come. They are very easily upgradeable and the OS is so well designed that you don't have to worry about adware, spyware, viruses, etc. There are no viruses for Macs and you don't get spyware. I've had a broadband internet connection for a year and a half on my iMac, and I have never had a firewall, and I have never had a problem- no popups, no adware, spyware, anything.

But when you consider a PowerMac (Mac Pro), these are designed as "high end" models. These are targeted at developers, programmers, designers, professionals, etc. It's not really targeted at the home user. The MacMini and iMac are the home user tagets. However, if one were to purchase a Mac Pro for a home use, consider what you get: up to 16gb RAM, 2TB Hard Drive, 2 optical drives, high end graphics card - how long do you think it would be before you had to buy another? Even if you bought the base model, just upgrade, that's all you have to do. You wouldn't have to buy another computer for years! I know of folk currently who still swear by their first generation G3 and G4 PowerMacs. And, that really says something.

So yes, you may pay more up front, but look what you get in the long run.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Aug 9, 2006 - 3:04 AM

I'm still using the pre-Thunderbird 1Ghz Athlon PC I bought around 2000 as a media(mainly video) playing computer for my living room. I was using it as my main PC up until about two years ago, when I finally had some spare cash. I would still be using it as my main if I didn't want to play the newest games...but you don't have to worry about that on a Mac ;)

[Edit: And if its motherboard hadn't burnt out I would probably still be using my 300Mhz PC for something, not sure what though, maybe a Linux file server. I can't really say I was disappointed with that computer's lifespan either. I bought it for less than $700 new when you couldn't find a decent cheap PC for less than $1200.]

Score: 0

By BCTech

edited Aug 8, 2006 - 12:54 PM

I still use a Dual PIII 600 with 512MB's of RAM. It's about 8 years old and still running strong. Aside from game use it still performs great, too. Running WinXP and I use it for email, web browsing, a little bit of photo editing, etc. PC's may take a little more care, but they can last as long or longer than an equivalent Mac, both in terms of sheer longevity and performance. There is nothing saying that a Mac will be worth more in a year in comparison to current computers than an equivalent PC would be.

I built a system for my roommate as a gaming machine a few years ago based on socket 754. It's finally starting to show its age a bit as a gaming machine, but due to consistent upgrades (mostly graphics card, a little RAM, and a sound card) it has stayed competitive up until recently with the high end.

As far as upgrades go Macs are actually worse off than most PC's. The move to Intel CPU's will help that a lot, but as always you are limited by what Apple offers initially. With Dell for example I can buy a single dual core Xeon at whatever speed I want and get the 2nd CPU later. Apple doesn't allow you to do that.

Score: 0

By BCTech

edited Aug 8, 2006 - 5:08 PM

Actually "becoming very expensive" is exactly the opposite of what's happening. It used to be that Mac's - both laptop and desktop - were much more expensive than equivalent performance PC's. With the move to Intel CPU's most Mac hardware is now reasonably competitive in price with PC hardware. There is a price comparison of the Mac Pro further down, and you can also see the MacBook is a fairly good deal even now (especially when it was launched though). Just compare prices...

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 11:56 PM

P.T. Barnum is laughing so hard in his grave he just gave himself another hernia. Every minute is now every second.

Score: 0

By simonchretien

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 11:51 PM

Is that right, the 2500$ version comes with a GF 7300GT? WTF! It's slower than a 6800GS for god's sake.

Score: 0

By BCTech

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 8:33 PM

Are people even reading the other comments before they post? There's real info below, people. Let go your knee jerk reactions and embrace reality!

Sincerely,

A PC User

Score: 0

By simonchretien

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 7:28 PM

"Apple says a similar machine from Dell costs $1,000 more
In its standard configuration, the 2.66GHz dual Mac Pro with 1GB of RAM, Superdrive and 250GB hard drive will run $2,499 USD"

LOL, 2500$!!! Good thing it's 1000$ less expensive than a PC. Marketing idiots.

Score: 0

By garou506

posted Aug 9, 2006 - 4:36 AM

And your point?

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 5:44 PM

To continue the interesting price comparisons, looking around there are few retailers currently offering dual Xeon Woodcrest setups. I found 3: Alienware, Dell, and Puget Custom Computers
http://alienware.com/Con...amp;SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
http://configure.us.dell...=690750w32min&s=bsd
http://www.pugetsystems.com/configvidedit.php

Unfortunately none of them offer truly comparable options.

The Dell comes closest to the same configuration as the Mac Pro and the price is $3,187, which includes a graphics card that costs about $70 more. There is no option to use the same card. Note however that this machine comes with a *3 year on-site warranty* whereas Apple's warranty is 1 year.

Puget came in at $4,050.23, but wouldn't allow less than 2GB of RAM, so it must be compared to the Apple at $2800 (the Apple also has 4x512MB whereas the Puget has 2x1GB). This machine also comes with a standard 3 year warranty, Apple's is 1 year.

Unfortunately Alienware doesn't understand that some of their customers might want a workstation-level system without a workstation graphics card, so their system came in at $4,934.00 due to a hideously overpriced minimum graphics card option. Subtract about $1000 from that for the comparative price (you may be able to get a custom card selection from them if you phone them). The Alienware comes with 1 year warranty but it offers 24/7 and on-site support, superior to Apple's.

You can see that, especially from a system builder, Apple's offer is extremely competitive. Even more interesting, Apple claims to be able to ship in 3-5 business days. Compare that to Alienware, estimating shipping on September 13th, or Dell on the 18th of August. No ship date is estimated on the Puget system.

Where it all falls down is that with Dell for example I can get a single dual core Xeon Woodcrest 1.6Ghz CPU system with the same specs (and the 2nd motherboard socket ready to be populated later) for $1800. This is what you *can't* do with Apple. Apple says this is their most configurable system ever, but I don't really see it. I would *love* to be able to buy a cheaper system that I could later upgrade but I guess that just doesn't fit into their strategy, so they won't be getting my business.

Amusingly the Dell is $2,318 with a *single* dual core Xeon 2.66Ghz, the same CPU as the Mac Pro has. So for about $200 less you get half the CPU resources. The Mac Pro is still looking like a damn good deal here.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 6:58 PM

The Mac Pro is still looking like a damn good deal here.
I have to agree. My only problem is the lack of a cheaper version. I might consider it, if I were in the market for a desktop/workstation costing more than $2000; but I prefer to purchase well below $2000 and upgrade as needed.

Score: 0

By GCoder

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 10:38 AM

I think that they will drop the price when the next gen intel processors come out.

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 8:32 PM

My feelings exactly. They should really consider at least some kind if "hidden" (less obvious/available) "super customization" link, where you can buy slower CPU's (they go down to 1.6Ghz), and get only a single CPU, for example. There really isn't much more they could cut off the price than that though. You wouldn't want less RAM, and the graphics card is already pretty low end (although I'd love to be able to get one without a graphics card at all).

Score: 0

By tirpider

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 9:28 PM

Perhaps Apple isn't quite ready to fall into the "Celeron" trap that captured home PC users for so long...

A lower cost, yes, but also offering much lower preformance that would soil their new endevor with low benchmarks right off the bat.

Perhaps in a year... or two

Score: 0

By ladylust

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 4:49 PM

Your paying a good $600-$1000.00 extra for your computer to have an Apple sticker. No thanks, keep the sticker - ill build my own and save Cash.

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 4:53 PM

Surprisingly that is not true in this case. See posts below.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 11:45 PM

Now that we know they are Xeons, yes.

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 11:58 PM

Xeons are only about $200 more expensive than Core 2 Duo's (at the default 2.66Ghz speed). That's $400 saved. Still not enough to make up the $687 difference between the Apple and Dell. Keep in mind there are no dual socket Core 2 Duo motherboards.

If you're focusing purely on custom builds from parts, then yeah you can get the machine about $400-500 cheaper, but that's a good deal less than a lot of people were expecting. The custom build machine also doesn't come with the year warranty (granted some individual hardware warrantees are longer), and you can't run OS X on it. :D

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 10:29 AM

Dell is overpirced as well.

Why compare the two?

Most manufacturer's warranties are 3+. Who cares about the warranty offered by the parts-outfit?

and you can't run OS X on it. :D

I admit. That sucks. Someday... (I can dream, can't I?)

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:41 PM

If Dell is overpriced, what system builder would you recommend that is cheaper *and* carries Woodcrest Xeon's right now? I looked around and found very few. I listed the cheapest I could find and Dell was actually the least expensive.

Sure you can build your own, but even doing that you hardly beat the Mac Pro at retail prices. Wholesale is irrelevant because 99% of people don't have access to it, no matter how tech-savvy.

Most manufacturer warranties are 1-3 years, not 3+. It's rare to get 3+, there is only I think 1 hard drive manufacturer who offers greater than 3 years for example (Seagate if I recall correctly).

And who cares about the warranty? Anyone who doesn't want to have to deal with 5 different manufacturers for each part that may have a problem. Not to mention that the warranties for hardware only cover repair or replacement, not installation. Most people either want to send their computer in for repair, or have someone come out. Several of the manufacturers mentioned offered on-site standard with the system.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:56 PM

I believe the original comment that started this was something along the lines of, "I could build one cheaper".

Note the "I". I *did* imply it was possible for others as well, but I did *not* imply 90% of system buyers would be doing it, or even know *how* to do it.

Score: 0

By BCTech

edited Aug 8, 2006 - 1:13 PM

Actually this was started by "ladylust", so if they can build it $600-$1000 cheaper then fair anough. But I doubt it.

Anyway, care to put together a quote with *your* cost? I'm sure that would be interesting.

Score: 0

By BCTech

edited Aug 8, 2006 - 5:09 PM

They are Xeon's, as indicated on Apple's site (and by the "Woodcrest" moniker). This means this is actually a very *good* deal, and this is right in line with the comparatively good deal the MacBook debuted as. For the specs the current MacBook offers you it's a pretty good deal, and when it launched it was an excellent deal because dual core "centrino"-type processors weren't widely available on PC laptops at the top, much less in a $1099 laptop.

I never thought I'd be saying it but it looks like Apple is starting to be price competitive. The only issue I see is they're still insisting on serving only the high end. Even though their $2500 computer is a good value, unlike other system builders you can not cut back to say a single core duo (upgradeable to dual CPU) and save a lot of money, but still get the Mac experience. Oh sure they offer the iMac at a lesser price, but I don't want that piece of integrated crap, I want a stand-alone box and to choose my own *CRT* monitor. There's always the Mac Mini, but that's a little *too* barebones. I want something in-between that *isn't* the iMac. I can understand them not wanting to flood the market too much, but it's still very frustrating. I'd love to play with a nice upgradeable Mac at a decent price, but I don't find any of their current offers compelling.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 2:07 PM

the 2.66GHz dual Mac Pro with 1GB of RAM, Superdrive and 250GB hard drive will run $2,499 USD.

Asinine.

That's a ridiculous price for those specs, regardless of the OS or Apps included.

For those who are about to knee-jerk, please keep in mind this is coming from an system builder, not a retailer. I can buy those same specs for under $1500 easily.

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 9:43 PM

but that's the reason to buy Apple/Mac branded items, so you can be asinine. That's the only reason to buy them...er wait I was imagining I was one of them...sorry for being asinine.

hehe

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 5:10 PM

I was thinking the same thing...

Score: 0

By Fickleflame

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 2:25 PM

1 Gig RAM = $98 (High-Priced)
250 Gig HD SATA = $82 (Average Price)
Dual 2.66 Core 2 Duo = $1,578 (Best Price)

You'll also need: Motherboard, Video Card, Sound, Cooling System, DVD-RW, Keyboard, Mouse. You'll need newer stuff to because Core Duo's only run on the newer stuff.

Yah, I think I could see you building a nice replacement for $1,500.

Think before you speak.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 3:57 PM

Know who you're talking to before you speak. ;)

250 GB SATA ($77)
2x 2.67Ghz Core 2 Duo ($1290)
1GB RAM ($92)

(Grand Total: $1459)

That's with absolutely ZERO digging. I can call up my OEM supplier and have that cut by a 3rd in 10 minutes.

Anyone doing even the smallest bit of digging can easily cut the price of a case and mobo with onboard sound/vid on par with the MAC.

Don't fall for the hype.

(posted prior to reading the Xeon portion of this topic)

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 4:43 PM

It's great that you can get amazingly cheap prices from your OEM supplier but most people aren't that lucky. What matters to 99% of people is how much something sells at retail. Even doing a build from parts is too much for most people, but for those who are comfortable with it, it's obviously the best way to get an inexpensive, quality system.

I went ahead and made a price and parts list to compete with the standard Mac Pro. Same CPU, memory, graphics card, etc. I used an Antec Sonata II case. Total cost was $2483, without shipping (which Apple offers free). If you include shipping it noticeably exceeds the cost of the Mac Pro.

For the most part I tried to stick to components that would be in line with what is in the Mac Pro. You *could* build a system for a little bit cheaper by going with crappier components (cheaper case, etc.), but Apple uses fairly good quality parts and builds good hardware for the most part, so I think it's only fair to use decent components.

With all that in mind it seems pretty clear that this is a good deal. Good luck trying to put together a dual CPU Core Duo (you need to use Xeons in dual CPU motherboards).

Full parts list with prices and URL's available upon request (Excel format).

Score: 0

By rwkreutz

edited Sep 5, 2006 - 4:44 AM

"Full parts list with prices and URL's available upon request..."

I would like to take you up on your offer for the Mac Pro parts list. Please email to: rwk@americom.com

If you wouldn't mind, put "*** Mac Pro Parts List ***" in the subject (including the ***'s) so I won't miss it!

Thank you very much for your kind offer!

Best regards,
d***

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 11:43 PM

From my last post (it seems you missed this part):

Anyone doing even the smallest bit of digging can easily cut the price of a case and mobo with onboard sound/vid on par with the MAC.

Anyone buying a core 2 duo system and *not* shopping around deserves to pay more. Call it a 'Gotta Have It Now Tax', if you will.

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:00 AM

What did I miss about that? I used quality components at close to the cheapest prices. You could save *maybe* $100 total on the same components by buying from several different retailers, but Newegg is extremely reliable and often has the cheapest, or damn close to the cheapest prices. Obviously you could go lower if you used crappier parts, but then it's hardly comparable to the Mac Pro, now is it?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 10:26 AM

If newegg is your basis for pricing, I apologize.

I'll stick to the many other online distributors who somehow undercut them on the same products.

I will admit, however, they *do* have even the lowest among those, but it's not across the board, and it's never sure thing.

I strongly suggest anyone research their pricing, even if they *do* have a fave distributer. It adds up pretty quick.

(also, FYI, I'm not pricing crappy parts, just cheaper. ) ;)

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 8, 2006 - 12:47 PM

Put your time where your mouth is. If you're so sure you can come up with cheaper, do as I did and put together a list. I can provide my list with links to all parts at the quoted prices if anyone wants it. I'd past it in here but it's a bit long. It took me about 15 minutes to do. Feel free to do the same. Otherwise I call bulls**t.

If you do go to the trouble, I am betting you'll come out with a maximum of $100 cheaper in total for the same parts *in stock*. That's hardly a landslide and IMO hardly worth it on a $2500 purchase when you have to spend the extra time searching around and researching each vendor. As I said before Newegg is reliable and trustworthy. I can't say the same for a lot of online vendors who promise cheaper prices.

Now if you go for different parts that's another matter. List the brands and models and we'll talk. But the only places you may be able to save significant money are on the motherboard and case - the CPU's are a fairly fixed price and are the biggest expense - and a budget case just isn't comparable to the Mac Pro case, simple as that. So pick your parts carefully.

Score: 0

By gallyjh

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 2:34 PM

2.66 Core 2 Duo is $530 each according to http://www.anandtech.com...ets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802

Anyhow... you'd still be tight trying to cut it to $1500, but it'd be a helluva lot cheaper then $2500

Score: 0

By Hot Blonde

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 4:14 PM

Xeon, NOT Core 1/2 Duo. get it?

Score: 0

By mickc82

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 2:36 PM

They are not core 2 duos they are Xeons which cost more than core 2 duos.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 3:26 PM

It helps to read the article:

The new Mac Pro features two dual-core Intel "Woodcrest" processors, known in the marketplace as the Core 2 Duo

[Edit: I guess it doesn't ;P]

Score: 0

By gallyjh

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 2:40 PM

The above article makes no mention of Xeons, it says "In its standard configuration, the 2.66GHz dual Mac Pro with 1GB of RAM, Superdrive and 250GB hard drive will run $2,499 USD"

Score: 0

By mrow

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 3:09 PM

You're right, but if you know anything about Intel's model lineup, you'd know that Woodcrest is the internal name for their new Xeons. It's ok to be wrong sometimes.

Score: 0

By gallyjh

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 3:30 PM

I was going off what the article stated, "The new Mac Pro features two dual-core Intel "Woodcrest" processors, known in the marketplace as the Core 2 Duo"... more or less they seem to have it wrong...

Score: 0

By BCTech

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 3:39 PM

Realized you were wrong with your model number comments? Yeah, the Xeon's are 51x0 model. For example 5160 is the 3.0Ghz model
http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16819117100
http://www.intel.com:80/.../5100/feature/index.htm

The 6x00 models are in fact the "Conroe" Core 2 Duo desktop CPU's. So it turns out the article is just confusing things and probably has its terminology wrong. Apple does say they are "Woodcrest" Xeon's, and that seems true largely only as indicated by the bus speed and the fact that they are dual processor (Core 2 Duo doesn't do dual CPU on one board as far as I know). Otherwise the two CPU lines seem fairly similar.

So the fact that it's a good deal stands, but there is also the fact that they could offer a much cheaper single CPU Core 2 Duo machine, or a single CPU Xeon upgradeable to 2 CPU's, for much less. Nice for those who have the money, it's well worth it, and I applaud Apple for actually offering reasonable pricing, but I still wish they'd have just one more model that would be in my price range.

Score: 0

By DevinC

edited Aug 10, 2006 - 2:27 PM

So in conclusion.. the price of MacBook Pro laptop is reasonable vs. building my own desktop?

Score: 0

By bigshotshotdown

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 2:22 PM

You're right, The extra grand is part of Apple's 'bragging rights' fee. Oh, and that two-button mouse. Saweet! I wonder if they also include one of those Apple stickers that I can put on my shiny Volkswagon.

Score: 0

By eoswald

edited Aug 7, 2006 - 4:34 PM

There's an Apple sticker on my Volkswagen, your point? :P (there used to be a MSN sticker on the other window -- yeah, I'm a dork, again, your point? :P)

Score: 0

By mrow

posted Aug 7, 2006 - 3:11 PM

You'd be right if the processor was a Core2Duo. However, it uses a Xeon which is significantly more expensive than a Core2Duo.

Score: 0

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