I can't stop coming to this topic, its like a car crash in slo - motion, very painful to watch but interesting nonetheless.

April 25: Wal-Mart Names HD-DVD the Winner

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html

Isn't this the same crap as before, where:

1/ it tried to pretend Walmart calls the winner, but at the same times says about stocking Blu-Ray..

2/ It's still uncertain if Walmart have gone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, due to flawed translation, even admitted by the company (Akihabara) that issued the press release.

http://www.engadgethd.co...d-dvd-player-on-the-way/

And now it seems, even Walmart are shying away from the fact that it's HD-DVD that they have gone with..

http://www.engadgethd.co...-wal-mart-hd-dvd-player/

You woudl think that if this were a HD-DVD coup, they would be shouting from the rooftops, as it is, the sources are making statements, about translation errors, and no-comment...

Seems like it may not be HD-DVD after all, that Walmart is buying.. Oh dear, some very embarrassed people here...

In China there are two types of HD-DVD players, one uses red laser diodes. The other the regular blue laser diodes. The press release has been repeatedly gone over by Chinese speaking members at the AVS forums and confirmed to be HD-DVD (blue light HD-DVD).

When it is officially confirmed Ray Dorset is going to be one embarrased little fanboy. Oh not really, he'll just run away and hide like Mark Gillespie and all the others.

A personal and biased opinion from an author on engadget hardly proves anything.

That's just an excuse created around the facts.

The fact is the original translator has admited a "Huge Error", implies it's actually Blu-Ray.

The fact Walmart are keeping quiet, and the fact that Toshiba are not shouting from the rooftops about it, also implies that it's actually Blu-Ray.

Time will tell, but it's certainly dodgy for the fanboys here to proclaim it's HD-DVD, and the end of Blu-Ray (unlikely to make any dent in Blu-Ray progress, more prolong the format war), as if the tables suddenly turn, then it really would be the end of HD-DVD..

The key words being "the translator". He did not write the article, he just translated it. Now he says he made an error, but many other Chinese readers have also translated and say that HD-DVD is correct.

As for Wal-Mart keeping quiet, did you miss the part about this being leaked? Of course they are keeping quiet! If they did want to talk about it it's much more likely they would be confirming it was a mistake. The fact that they are saying nothing lends more credence to it being HD-DVD. If it was actually Blu-Ray they certainly wouldn't keep quiet and let reports say it was HD-DVD. Sorry but you're obviously wrong. As for calling people fanboys, ever hear the one about the pot and the kettle?

You should be embarrassed after how many times you have been proven wrong in the last few days. You are also highly likely to be wrong on this also. Wouldn't be the first...

Ha!

From the trademark BD BS we've all seen & suffered to date we know that if this was a BD matter the 'drone control' would have had you lot spouting about this for the rest of the decade.

The fact that the BD Assoc is saying nothing speaks volumes, with their track record.

.....and try as you like the truth is the original document speaks (in plain English) of HD DVD.
Translating the words around it it says 'blue laser HD DVD.
Quite clearly this is merely to differentiate the Chinese red laser HD DVD from the blue laser HD DVD we know.

But feel free to keep on clutching at the straws, this one can only get funnier and funnier.

Sony Blu-Ray lasers ramp to 1.7 million a month and drop in price to less than $8

http://www.sony.net/Sony...0704/07-037E/index.html

Considering the Blue laser is the most costly component of the Blu-Ray drive, it seems the cost of Blu-Ray and perhaps the PS3 is about to fall significantly...

Color me blind, but I see no mention of the $8 in the article you posted....

Establishment of industry-leading monthly capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet diodes and Comprehensive blue-violet laser diode product lineup including high-power output 240mw model -
- Achievement of milestone 2 billion overall laser diode shipments -

Sony Corporation
Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor Inc.

April 23, 2007, Tokyo - Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor Inc. (hereafter Sony Shiroishi), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Corporation (hereafter Sony), today announced that as of March 2007, cumulative shipments of laser diodes have reached 2 billion units since it started production in 1986.

As of April 2007, Sony Shiroishi has also established industry-leading monthly production capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet laser diodes, offering a comprehensive product lineup of blue-violet laser diodes for the wide-ranging needs of external customers as well as for use in Sony products. Furthermore, with Sony Shiroishi scheduled to start mass production of high-power output 240mw diodes from November this year, Sony and Sony Shiroishi will continue to stand at the forefront of the technological development and market for laser diodes going forward.

top


Establishment of Industry-leading Monthly Capacity of 1.7 million Blue-violet Diodes

Sony Shiroishi has established industry-leading monthly production capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet laser diodes as of April 2007, and has already made preparations to further reinforce production capacity based on future demand.
There has recently been a rapid increase in blue-violet laser diode demand, for use in devices such as Blu-ray Disc (hereafter BD) players or game consoles. To meet this demand, Sony had already installed front-end wafer process equipment capable of producing 5 million blue-violet laser diodes (BD playback-only equivalent) per month. Sony Shiroishi will strengthen its post-process assembly capacity depending on future demand.

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Comprehensive Blue-violet Laser Diode Lineup

In addition to the stable production and supply of high-quality, competitive blue-violet laser diodes, Sony will also offer a comprehensive lineup of blue-violet laser diodes targeting the wide-ranging needs of customers.

Model name Shipment Date Sample Price
Blue-violet laser diode for BD recorder
"SLD3234VF" (output 170mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3234VFI" (output 170mW, ?3.8mm) Apr, 2007
4,500 Yen
5,000 Yen
Blue-violet laser diode for BD player
"SLD3131VF" (output 20mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3131VFI" (output 20mW, ?3.8mm) Jun, 2007
900 Yen
1,000 Yen
Blue-violet laser diode for BD recorder
"SLD3235VF" (output 240mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3235VFI" (output 240mW, ?3.8mm) Nov, 2007
4,500 Yen
5,000 Yen

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2 Billion Cumulative Shipments of Overall Laser Diodes

Since its establishment in 1986, Sony Shiroishi has become a key site in the development and production of laser diodes, introducing a total semiconductor laser production system that integrates MOCVD (Metal Organic Chemical Vapor Deposition) epitaxial growth with sophisticated wafer processes. It also produces infrared laser diodes for CD players / drive units, red laser diodes for DVD players / recorders and blue-violet laser diodes for BD players / recorders. Sony Shiroishi has shipped 2 billion cumulative units of laser diodes as of March 2007.

'$8 individual pieces' mean nothing when there are a zillion of them.

The BD drive is more complex and more expensive than the HD DVD drive.

Now that both have multi-million production numbers it always will be too.

Too bad Blu-ray is going to lose. All that work for nothing.

http://www.google.com/se...US&q=900+Yen+in+%24

OK, so I was being generous, it's actually $7.5 per diode..

It's common knowledge, the expensive and diffucult to produce item in a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player is the diode itself. (hence PS3 delay) Everything else is relativly simple.

I would be interested to know WHY the BD drive is more complex? They both use the same essential method to read the data from the disc, they use the same codecs in decoding, and use the same method of outputting the data. Even the copy protection is identical.

Now that Sony can produce 1.7m blu-ray diodes a month, for $8 a piece, expect the price of Blu-Ray and PS3 to drop.

And please tell us why Blu-Ray will lose?

It's technically the better format (50GB vs 30GB, 48Mbit/sec vs 30Mbit/sec)
It's got much more industry backing.
It's standard in the PS3, and it's already been proven that PS3 buyers are also movie buyers, by the 70% Blu-Ray media market dominance in 2007.

Those 3 reasons alone make your argument sound very silly...

"It's technically the better format (50GB vs 30GB, 48Mbit/sec vs 30Mbit/sec)"

- Actually HD DVD will soon offer consumers the greater capacity (51gb) and we've already 'done' the meaninglessness of that bitrate figure.

HD DVD can already reproduce 'transparency' to the master copy with 30gb & a lower bitrate rendering the bigger numbers of BD a pointless expense.

"It's got much more industry backing."

- Really?

Cos HD DVD is backed by the DVD Forum which I think you'll find has a far larger membership than the BD Association.

You'll also find members of the BD Assoc bailing out and abandoning their previous status as BD exclusive manufacturers.

"It's standard in the PS3, and it's already been proven that PS3 buyers are also movie buyers, by the 70% Blu-Ray media market dominance in 2007."

- LMAO.

IF 3 million PS3s can barely scrape the so-called 'advantage' they have managed to date then that is not something I'd be trying to use as a plus point.

The fact is that PS3 BD attachment rates are appalling.

The truth is that PS3 has failed BD large styleee.....hence previously BD exclusive people ditching that stance and going dual format or neutral.

"Those 3 reasons alone make your argument sound very silly... "

- Naaa man, your comments are easily shown up as the silly ones here.

"I would be interested to know WHY the BD drive is more complex?"

- Because the BD pit 'pitch' is finer than HD DVD's (which is why they can get 25gb per layer and HD DVD 17gb).
This requires a more expensive and complex drive.

Basically they saddled themselves with a much more expensive spec that they didn't need - except for the fact that it meant Sony could continue to use their almost 20yr old MPEG2 codecs and avoid paying anyone else royalties on different codecs.

"Even the copy protection is identical."

- Er, no. Only a part of the copy protection is the same.

The BD+ DRM garbage that BD is stuffed with is all theirs alone.

"Now that Sony can produce 1.7m blu-ray diodes a month, for $8 a piece, expect the price of Blu-Ray and PS3 to drop."

- They already announced their cheaper BD player ($500 this summer some time).

Wake up, any savings they make on manufacturing costs of the PS3 are going to go towards reducing their losses on each item.

They'll only be cheaper in your dreams. :P

those are just different models, I still don't see anywhere where it says the price went down...

"fact that it meant Sony could continue to use their almost 20yr old MPEG2 codecs and avoid paying anyone else royalties on different codecs."

How many recent Blu-Ray releases are MPEG2? Very few if any.. Almost everything these days is AVC or VC1. Even then, there is nothing inheriently wrong with MPEG2, given enough storage space, on a 50GB disc, MPEG2 movies look great.

I would also be interested to hear exactly who Sony have to pay money to to use AVC codec....

Your arguments seem to be very flawed. There are plenty of AVC titles that exceed HD-DVD's upper limit of 30Mbit/sec bandwidth, usig the same codecs, so HD-DVD is constrained. Anyone that says otherwise is lying..

It doesn't, and I never claimed it did.

However, blue diodes in the iSuppli report were over $70 and supply constrained the last time i checked...

"Sony Blu-Ray lasers ramp to 1.7 million a month and drop in price to less than $8"

looks like you said it to me...

Well that's good, they'll have something to sell for use in all the HD-DVD players that are going to be replacing their poor little Blu-Rays.

Amazing so many Sony zealots want a huge media corporation in control of their movie format. If it wins have fun with their region coding and DRM (to this day they are still adding crap to regular DVDs and making them unplayable). Worshipping Sony = IDIOT.

Why even listen to him, he's a liar just like all the other Sony shills.

Speaking of lying "there is nothing inheriently wrong with MPEG2, given enough storage space, on a 50GB disc, MPEG2 movies look great."

Also the HD-DVD is not "contrained." You can spout this BS all you want, but so far I have yet to see any proof.

"How many recent Blu-Ray releases are MPEG2?"

- The fact that the ancient MPEG2 was ditched subsequently substituted with AVC and VC-1 is hardly the point.

BD's size came about because of Sony's desire & need to fit MPEG2.

Recent releases merely demonstrate the move away from the original MPEG2......which by common consensus were usually appalling.

Your stuff about HD-DVD being constrained by bandwidth is purely an invention of your own.

There is not a single review of a single title where anyone claims this is the case.

But it's ok for you to run away now, the thread has dropped off of the 1st page and you can be spared being taken to school until the next time.

"Amazing so many Sony zealots want a huge media corporation in control of their movie format"

It's the superior format, that's the ONLY reason you need...

But if you want another one.. I don't want my player made by Toshiba (crap), or FunChuShin (even crappier)..

Ask about bandwidth constrained titles on AVS Forums, there are plenty of them, that hit the ceiling on HD-DVD.. (30mbit/sec total for all audio/video/subtitle streams)

The problem here, is the usual suspects here are totally blind to the facts, and no matter how obvious they are, they still believe that Microsoft/Toshiba/Some Bloke on the Xbox forums told them.. It's actually rather sad...

It's the superior format

at having more DRM, region coding, more fragile discs, and more expensive.

Let me try to correct your post:

I'm a raving sony FANBOY, that's the ONLY reason you need...

Yeah, that's better. You should always try to be honest.

I don't want my player made by Toshiba

There's nothing wrong with Toshiba, better than the sh*t sony makes these days. You also know good and well that other manufactures are making HD-DVD players or have models lined up. Don't worry though, sony will have to make HD-DVD players too when the format wins. They gave in and made VHS decks after all. Then you can have your precious sony brand player and pretend like you supported it all along.

No, the problem here is you are full of crap.

"Warner's The Departed was released on February 13. As of March 31, sales of Blu-ray copies totaled 53,460, while only 31,590 HD DVD discs were sold in the same period."

And how many copies of The Departed have been sold in Regular/SD DVD? I rest my case of BRD/HD-DVD both being about as useless as SACD or DVD-A.

Also, if you haven't seen this movie, I highly recommend it.

Duh, the HD DVD is a combo and costs more. Format neutral buyers go for the HD DVD first, but all things being equal will opt for the less expensive of the two. Look at Happy Feet HD DVD. It costs more, but is superior to the Blu-ray version with a TrueHD audio track, so it is outselling the Blu-ray version.

Useless? No. In fact, HD DVD is catching on faster than standard DVD did when it was first introduced.

and in other news, Wal-Mart is getting ready to sell a $299 HD-DVD player... (or is it Blu-Ray?)

http://www.engadgethd.co...d-dvd-player-on-the-way/

should be interesting to see what happens to the market when an (almost) affordable player comes out...

but don't get me wrong- i don't dislike Blu-Ray or HD-DVD; I just hate Sony after having to deal with their lousy products/support for 10+ years!

It's HD-DVD, the article called it Blue Laser HD-DVD to differentiate it from the Red Laser HD-DVD format used in China. That is where all the confusion came from.

If I were Sony right now? I would be making a cheap Blu-Ray player, based on Cell and PS3 Software Blu-Ray decoder, will all the non gaming stuff ripped out. Perhaps use lower yield Cells with only 5 cores to improve costs.

Piggyback on the work done for PS3, use lower performance Cells (as you don't need to grunt of the Cell, or the power of the RSX), and I reckon it's pretty easy to make a very decent, fully featured and still cheap to manufacture Blu-Ray player.

Who on earth would buy a foo-chin no-name crappy HD-DUD player, with no media titles, when you can get a Sony Blu-Ray player for $80 more..

Yah...Too bad Sony is not that smart...I can tell you right now if Sony had a $200 Blu-Ray player I would buy it right now today. Problem is HD-DVD is going to beat them there most likely. Im telling you the format with the first $200 stand alone player will probably be the winner. The average consumer is all about price and this is why Blu-Ray WILL be in trouble if they don't get their prices down. The average consumer doesn't care about the specs on either format because they don't understand them anyway. All they are going to see is hmm XX is cheaper than XX.

They won't do that because it's one of the only selling points for the PS3 (which isn't selling anyway). Of course they'd probably make a lot more money by scrapping the bottomless money pit that is the PS3 and just selling Blu-Ray players, but as you said Sony isn't very smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have one standard and cheap and reliable (powerful too) drives to support it?

Anyone notice, when HD-DVD was leading, it didn't matter that the market was small, all that was important, was that HD-DVD was outselling Blu-Ray.

Now that Blu-Ray is vastly outselling HD-DVD, it seems the size of the market is suddenly important.

That really goes both ways.

I never even mentioned sales. I simply compared the mediums themselves, because like it was then and still is now at this time sales still do not matter. Whenever the average consumer starts adopting, then it will matter. Until then these numbers don't matter. So Sony has got 70% of like 1% of the market. The war has not even begun yet.

How about we all turn off the TV for a while and go for a walk outside?

Surely there's more to life than television and movies?

:-)

Frankly I don't have HD-DVD or Blu-ray and my decision to walk outside or watch TV is not affected at the least by either of these, or which one will come out on top.

What a load, 'momentum' my a$$.

The total high def DVD market is minute.

SD DVD sells in the 700 million+ bracket.
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...tertainment/4640658.stm )

Big deal.

This is just more pointless PR spin BS crowing over a pifflingly tiny number which becomes very clear when compared to the total retail DVD market.

It is far too early and the market is far too immature to make much of this.

.....but PS3s utter failure to generate the kind of huge BD movie disc sales some imagined is demonstrated pretty clearly for all to see.

This article is nothing but Sony propaganda!!!
The reason why movies like the Departed sold more copies had a lot to do with stores like Sony minons Best Buy and Circuit City who carried either no or one or two copies of the HD-DVD version of the movies and that's a fact. Sony may win the format war but only because they control the retail end such as Microsoft does with software. IF Sony wins be prepared to pay a premium for players and more discs loaded with snooping software. I personally won't buy any Sony products because of their arrogant anticonsumer attitude.

So, anyone check out the new nine inch nails?

/I figured this thread already has enough asinine replies why not one more!

What makes anyone think that either of these formats is going to last? I mean with streaming media, hard drive recorders, huge flash memory, and who knows what else coming just around the corner, why would I want a collection of soon-to-be-obsolete Christmas tree ornaments?

When a pocket flash drive can carry someone's entire High Def collection, then there may be no need for this. But for now, media is here to stay.

It can be used easily in multiple locations, doesn't expire..etc.

Pocket flash drives are at 16 gb right now and will probably get bigger. However, if carrying the content is the goal, there are portable drives that can hold at least 160 gb of data (2.5 inch drives). That's pretty portable and easier to pocket than a DVD.

Still, I tend to think that downloadable content and multi-terabyte home servers will replace all of these options.

Just as a side note, what happens when holographic media hits the market with 3.9 terabyte capacities?

It sure looks like there is a big fight going on about technology that will be obsolete in a year or two.

Yeah I was thinking about that too. There's actually going to be 32gb SD[HC - High Capacity] card coming out. 32gb! iAudio has a flash based MP3 player called the D2. Though it only has 4gb of internal memory, it's also compatible with SDHC. With just two of those cards that's more than my current 60gb HDD MP3 player and since the D2 is Flash based you get better battery life (they’re saying 52 hours with the D2 and 10 hours of video!). The iPod Shuffle only gets up to 12 hours and that’s without a screen. I might have to buy one.

The problem is price. Will a flash drive ever be cheaper than a plastic disc?

They get cheaper all the time, so it is certainly possible.

I can buy a blank DVD-R for a few cents, I doubt a flash drive will ever be that cheap. Solid state electronics vs plastic disc.

Wow, all this crazy commentary about some HD formats that have less combined marketshare than OS X.

A bunch of ppl need to calm down, especially Dave and Benjamin. The world loses intelligence for just reading your posts.

Enjoy hd-dud fanboys!
I am sure Hollywood__ and his other "never tired" mates will be here soon defending Toshiba.

Here is a qhote from typical Hollywood__ cry:
"but we will winn, sony sucks!!!!!!!!11 waaaa"

Seriousily, get a hobby

I just come in here to correct the unlimited amounts of BS you guys post. There is quite an oasis of it.

Dave,

You never seem to amaze me. After all this time you still don't get it.

You never seem to defend yourself after I call you out for being a little girl Sony cheerleader who doesnt even own a BD player.

I know you think I am all about HD-DVD and anti Sony/BD. The fact is I hope both formats fail, no one really seems to care about the "next gen" HD movie formats except .5% of the country. It was all designed to keep people from copying movies, and the only way they could offer something new and different that could be completely controlled by the studios is by offering movies in "HD".

The fact is HD-DVD looks better than BD. Period. Regular DVD will not go away for another 20 years and I think that the "HD" formats will both eventually fail.

Now, when it comes to you, the posts you make and the time you spend worrying about BD vs HD-DVD makes you probably the biggest loser I have ever seen.

You only show up for pro-BD posts by Betanews like it's the high point of your day, and it probably is.

I can tell by the way you post and the juvinile language and attitude you have no money, freinds or life. Just a sad little troll who sits in a dark basement on his Mom's computer.

Also, I think you and Steve Austin are having man sex. But low and behold, you'll avoid my posts when I'm calling you out for being such a loser. 600+ posts on the blu-ray.com forum? That by definition is someone with no life. Just a brain dead 9-5 zombie with no ambition, creativity or brains.

Of course Dave just can't help lying about the CE support behind HD-DVD.

It's far from just Toshiba alone.

Major CE's behind HD DVD =

Toshiba,
NEC,
Sanyo,
Samsung, (abandoned being BD exclusive)
LG, (abandoned being BD exclusive)
Lite-on
Mitsubishi,
Onkyo,
Kenwood,
+ a number of chinese manufacturers

See a full list here http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

If your going to post rubbish at least make an effort to have some reality in there.

Bit feeble, when you compare it to Blu-Ray Developers:

Apple Inc.
Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Dell
Hewlett Packard
Hitachi
LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsus***a Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group
Warner Home Video Inc.

Then ofcourse, there are companies supporting Blu-Ray:

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Almedio Inc.
Alticast
Aplix Corporation
ArcSoft, Inc.
Atmel Corporation
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
Daxon Technology Inc.
DCA Inc.
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Esmertec

ESS Technology Inc.
FUJIFILM Corporation
Fujitsu Ltd.

Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
Gibson Guitar Corp.
Imation Corp.
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
Lionsgate Entertainment
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.

Monster Cable Products
Moser Baer India Limited
NEC Electronics Corporation
Nero
Paramount Pictures Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
Ritek Corporation
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation

Source: http://www.blu-raydisc.c...ection-14009/Index.html

Sony people really are entertaining. I love how you threw things like the movie studios(I didn't know Disney made hardware!! Gasp!) in your list to make it look longer. Guess you just "accidentally" missed that he was talking about manufacturers and O would you looky there he only listed manufacturers. It truly is pathetic how some people will try and twist the most obvious things to make Sony look better. I mean for god sakes at least put some thought into it where people can't catch your BS so easily.

Hey Ray, a lot of those companies support HD DVD as well. For example, Apple, HP, Hitachi, LG, Samsung, TDK, Warner and many others.

Apple HD-DVD, don't think so..

http://www.itweek.co.uk/.../apple-gives-hd-dvd-pip

TDK is Blu-Ray only..

Samsung are Blu-Ray, aside from some rumours of a dual player..

....actually I posted CE support, typical how you chose to waffle away from the subject and try a 'snowstorm' of unrelated links (some of which, again totally typically, are either partial, out of date or plain wrong).

This is very funny -

"TDK is Blu-Ray only.."

- Are you lying or just ignorant of the truth?

Why not go and look up who was developing the TL, triple layer, discs (both 45gb & 51gb actually), huh?

"Samsung are Blu-Ray, aside from some rumours of a dual player.."

- LMAO.

Is this another outright lie or are you just slow with the news?

Samsung have officially joined the HD-DVD group.
Like LG they have bailed out of exclusive BD hardware manufacturing and have formally announced the BD5000, a dual format player as well as producing HD-DVD laptops.

(......and they will not be alone in ditching the BD exclusive stance this year either.)

Hmm, triple layer HD-DVD.. Pretty sure it was not TDK, it was Toshiba and Memory Tech that did this. TDK have never has anything to do with HD-DVD

As for triple layer HD-DVD, I remember that crap, Toshiba tried to persuade people that they did not need 50GB of space and 30GB was more than enough, when Blu-Ray continued to dominate, they changed their tune, then you DID need 50GB of space, and they could do that too.. Wonder what happened to 51GB HD-DVD disks... Disappeared without a trace it seems...

Add Imation/TDK to that list now.

Imation bought TDK's media business, they are a member of the HD-DVD forum. Try to get your facts straight for once.

ROFL, you truly just post random links without reading.

Had you actually read the article and checked the comments which lead to APPLE.COM PR site it shows this:

Apple Continues to Lead the Industry in the Adoption of HD Video at NAB

NAB, LAS VEGAS—April 17, 2005—Apple® continues to lead the industry in the adoption of high definition video by demonstrating a complete HD video production and playback platform at NAB (booth #1902) this week. Apple will showcase Mac OS X version 10.4 “Tiger” and QuickTime® 7, which includes support for the H.264 codec, along with Final Cut® Studio, the ultimate HD video production suite.

“With H.264 at the core of Tiger and the launch of Final Cut Studio, we’ve created the industry’s first completely integrated platform to capture, edit, playback and burn high definition video,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

QuickTime 7, featuring the H.264 codec, allows users to playback pristine quality high definition video on today’s shipping computers with no additional hardware required. H.264 has been adopted by both the DVD Forum and Blu-ray Disc Association for the next generation of high capacity, high definition DVDs. Apple will release QuickTime 7 in conjunction with the release of Mac OS X “Tiger” on April 29.

Final Cut Studio, Apple’s ultimate HD video production suite, centers around Final Cut Pro® 5, a major upgrade to the Emmy award-winning editing software for DV, SD, HD and film. Final Cut Studio features state-of-the-art tools that complement Final Cut Pro 5, including Soundtrack® Pro, a revolutionary new audio editing and sound design application that makes video projects sound as good as they look; Motion 2, the world’s first real-time motion graphics application with GPU accelerated 32-bit float rendering; and DVD Studio Pro 4, the first commercially available DVD authoring software that burns high definition DVDs to the latest HD DVD specification.

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

You truly are a moron.

now if you have a more recent link that says apple changed its mind let me know.

Curse you terminalx!!! Your not supposed to read the links!!! You're supposed to take their word for it!!! lol

And i have Blu-ray, i work with it, but you dont have hddvd - this is because you still think "HD-DVD looks better than BD" which is the opposite :) You cant have it and still think this way. Or you are just troll.

You are the one with no life, you see you are here all the time.

"TDK have never has anything to do with HD-DVD"

- Once more some of the fanclub demonstrate their ignorance (or has it just come down to a stream of obvious and barefaced outright lies?).

"Wonder what happened to 51GB HD-DVD disks... Disappeared without a trace it seems... "

- and again.

The triple layer disc has now been submitted to the DVD Forum for certification.

(the DVD Forum, you know, that massive - larger than the BD assoc. - association of CE manufacturers and content providers that the HD DVD is part of and which ensures a proper frozen spec before it goes out to paying customers).

......and we'll just have to accept you ran away from your (lying or plain ignorant?) Samsung comments.

"You cant have it and still think this way. Or you are just troll."

- .....and yet owners of both repeatedly say otherwise along with the independent reviewers.

What a load of BS dave.

You'll be trying to deny that several HD DVD players have won umteen independent magazine awards (in preference to BD competition) for their high quality.

Why not just stop lying for a change Dave, eh?

Is this a coherent thought, seriousily?

Ahh, the tripple layer disk, that makes all HD-DVD players today obsolete...

Yep, slightly more extenive than the BD-J revision, which prevents some extras not playing. The tripple layer spec makes all HD-DVD players obsolete full stop.

So either:

Everyone's HD-DVD will be an expensive door stop
or more likely, the spec gets rejected by the DVD Forum (which, yes is bigger than BD, but that's because it also mandates DVD format, for which EVERYONE is part of, including Sony..)

Really Dave,

Let's compare W-2's and work schedules. I spend more time on planes than you do posting about BD. And you don't have a BD player. If you did, you would have specified which model to shut my a** up. I can smell a lie like a fart in a car and you are terrible at it.

Not only do I have HD-DVD but I have an XA1, XA2, and the XBOX add-on. The XA1 is pretty much useless as the video out doesnt work any more. The XA2 is a huge imporovement over the A1 and the XBOX add-on blows them both away.

The only BD player I have is the PS3, which I don't use very often. Only for movies, and only movies I can't get on HD-DVD.

Between the BD forum and Betanews, I bet you have over 1000 posts. But now I get it, once you said you work with Blu-Ray, I then realized you are a Best Buy employee.

Which store do you work at so I can come in and challenge you right in front of everbody about your vast knowledge of home theater?

You obviously have never seen HD-DVD, only the format that Best Buy wants you to sell.

I am probably the biggest, opinionated jerk you will ever meet. But at least my opinions are objective and based on my experience, unlike yours.

I'm only here to annoy you.

He's like the people in Jonestown. Blu-Ray will tell him to drink the Kool-Aid and the idiot will do it right along with the rest of the sheep.

He is so brainwashed he can't even think for himself. These are the easiest people to pick on as the dont have the wits or the where-with-all to properly defend themselves.

At least Mark G seemed like someone with an education, and you could actually have a lucid argument with him. The a** clown (DaveBG) doesnt have a clue.

Anyone with both players on the same source can easily see the difference.

BD = artifacting and oversaturated colors which the uninformed masses seem to like.

HD-DVD = Superior black levels and contrast and natural colors.

That's why Dave gets lumped in with the rest of the brain dead zombies that make up 90+% of this country.

Luckily, arguing with Dave is enough to make anyone feel like a MENSA member.

FUD

"Ahh, the tripple layer disk, that makes all HD-DVD players today obsolete..."

- Oh dear.

You really do not have a clue how the DVD Forum works do you?

Not that it'll stop you making ridiculous ignorant posts like that one.

Perhaps if you bothered to find out how it works you wouldn't be making such absurd statements.

Nobodies' HD DVD player will be "door stopped" by TL discs......and if you had the slightest clue about what approval by the DVD Forum actually meant you'd know that.

Nevermind eh?

It doesn't matter how strong Blu-Ray looks right now. The fact remains, it is still not a finalized format! I know the Sony crowd around here likes to ignore this fact, but it will come back and bite them in the ass. They don't plan to finalize the format until the end of this year, and they cannot guarantee 100% backward compatibility. Sony just never learns. They screw their customers and there's a huge backlash and bad publicity. Then six months later they screw their customers again. Eventually their money making house of cards will collapse and their arrogance will be their undoing.

You obviously have problems either reading, or understanding. I'll explain in hopefully plain English for you.

Blu-Ray is a finalised specification.
BD-J 1.0 is a finalised specifiction
BD Interactive is a finalised specifiction.

What you are talking about, are revisions to the spec.

By your reconing, Java is not a finalised spec, .NET is not a finalised spec, nor C++, nor any other ISO specifiction.

Everyhing gets spec revisions... The revisions in question affect interactive content PiP and suchlike. The main movie is backwards compatible with BD-J 1.0.

No go away an cry under your bed,then you spent youe pocketmoney on the Xbox 360 add-on, and that all the good movies are on Blu-Ray..

So basically, you admit then that current players are already defunct in that they will very likely not be able to be updated to the future 1.1 specification. A firmware update cannot magically add more memory for persistent storage, or magically grow a secondary video decoder for true Picture-in-Picture, or pop on an ethernet port. Bottom line is this: if you want to be able to play everthing on a future Blu-ray discs, do NOT buy a player today. Wait until November 2007.

Or simply buy a PS3.

It's got a network adapter.
It's got at least 20GB of persistent storage
It's video decoding is done in software on Cell, with ample power to spare, so new decoder instances are trivial.

Lastly, it's the cheapest Blu-Ray out there, and among the best.

You can try and derail Blu-Ray as much as you like, but the current momentum, please arn't bothered about a few additional extras. 70% of HD moves in 2007 have been Blu-Ray purchases.

ROFL, you can't be serious?

Try telling that to someone who has bought a blu-ray player and now are told "sorry the player you bought less then a year ago is now obsolete you will need to buy another one.

Honestly, you think people are going to go "ok" and buy a ps3 or ANOTHER player?

WOW, just wow

@ Benjamin -- yeah right, try telling mom and pop to buy a gaming console to watch movies, which ONLY costs $599. And then buy the HDMI cable. And then buy the remote. Not to mention that not even SONY has guaranteed that it'll be upgradable to the new spec coming out later this year. You are hilarious. They can do that, or they can buy a FULLY-FEATURED Toshiba HD-A2 right now for $299 and get a free HDMI cable and 5 free HD DVD movies. Oh yeah, and the HD-A2 even UPSCALES their current standard DVDs exceptionally well, unlike the PS3. Hmmmmm.

Curse you terminalx for bringing your logic into the discussion!!! Now he is going to go make up some more BS to counter your logic. Well I dono...Here lately they have just been ducking and running. They did it several times as you can see in the PS3 sales thread. lol =p

Again, Blu-Ray players today won't be olsolete, they may not play some of the extras, but they will play the movie content and extras excactly the same way they do on movies today..

Try doing some research before making yourself look a fool...

Profiles

The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0

This is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray players (as of April 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007 this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007)

What is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007[1], but existing products will be unaffected. No players compliant with this profile have been announced or released.

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability (i.e. director commentary may provide only audio rather than audio and video). Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live)

Profile 2, also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to one GB.

3 (audio only)

Profile 3 is meant for an audio-only player and does not require video decoding or BD-J.

So the current players are still going to be crippled. Considering the fact that all the people that bought Blu-Ray so far are people that like to stay ahead of the game on technology, therefore they are not going to be pleased with this.

All the movies that are out on both formats are all available as either regular rips or high quality h264, x264, HD Xvid or HD Divx to download on PC.

I miss nothing by not having BD actually.

The only thing Blu-Ray has to offer is increased capacity. Sony rushed the Blu-Ray specification and product to market unlike Toshiba. As a result, a significant amount of Blu-Ray titles are in old fashioned Dolby Digital sound with sub par quality MPEG-2 video. As for Dolby TrueHD audio, Blu-Ray fans probably don't even know what this is. Most Blu-Ray players also do not have user upgradeable firmware.

Toshiba on the other hand supported vastly superior MPEG-4 video as well as vastly superior Dolby Digital Plus audio at launch. Toshiba even released a free user upgradeable firmware update a short time later that added support for 5.1 channel Dolby TrueHD lossless audio.

Why are people willing to pay more money for an inferior Blu-Ray player?

Because there's the Steve's and Dave's that will buy anything that says the word Sony on it. Because with the word Sony painted on it, it has to be better than the competition. Because Sony are Gods like that.

"The only thing Blu-Ray has to offer is increased capacity"

You seem to forget the other things it offers that HD-DVD can't:

40% more bandwidth for video and audio.
Wide Industry support.

@ Benjamin -- Ohhhhh yeahhhhhh, like THAT really makes a HUGE difference, LMAO. The only time any extra bandwidth needs to be used is when Blu-ray movies are wasting space by using MPEG2 and LPCM codecs. Then you NEED to keep the bitrate up just to keep the quality decent. Otherwise, just use VC-1 like HD DVD, which also uses TrueHD audio.

And wide industry support? HD DVD is seeing companies like Onkyo, Meridian, Alpine, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, Kenwood and MORE releasing and beginning to release HD DVD players.

Blu-ray is next-gen? Blu-ray is a joke, always has been and always will be.

BS, I have several AVC Encoded Blu-Ray movies that hit 38mbit/sec in places. (I believe that's just the pic, not the audio stream aswell) HD-DVD would have given in long before that, and been bandwidth constrained.

These fabled HD-DVD player that arn't Toshibas or RCA (rebadged Toshiba), where can I buy them, please show me links and prices..

Hit 38mbit/sec in places huh. You measured this how?(Im not saying you can't, but if there is a way I sure haven't heard of it)
Bandwidth is not a problem Ray. You can spout your BS all you want, but HD-DVD has plenty of bandwidth.

The fact that HD DVD's VC-1 codec can achieve transparency to the master copy with lower bandwidth simply illustrates how pointlessly unnecessary those supposedly 'better' BD specs are.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html

There is one retailer that has the power to call the winner of the protracted Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD fight and that vendor is Wal-Mart. Over the weekend they apparently leaked plans to bring in a massive number of low cost (possibly sub $200) HD DVD players for Christmas.

The manufacturing side of this has apparently been in the works for a few years but this is the first time we have had projected prices for the result.

Why Wal-Mart, Why Now?

Wal-Mart uses DVDs to build store traffic. They tend to subsidize the price for the movies they feature to get folks into the stores and once there, these folks tend to buy other things. DVDs have been so effective for the company they threw their body at movie downloads initially and delayed the related services by several years. However, they have now realized that this kind of thing is coming regardless and have brought out their own movie download service to compete. But that doesn’t address the store traffic benefit that will be evaporating as people move away from DVDs for standard definition downloadable movies.

Wal-Mart sees the new high definition formats as a way to bring in store traffic again but they realized that won’t happen unless the players are affordable and there is only one standard. They recognized their own power in being king maker previously and are now using that power to drive the format that works best for them. They could care less about the technology as this is all about making money and they (like every other retailer in this space) know that two formats won’t allow the market to move outside of the fringes and the dual-mode players are simply way too expensive.

So they need one standard and a lot of players in market before their DVD customers wander off to download land and stops coming to Wal-Mart for movies.

Why HD-DVD and not Blu-Ray?

For Wal-Mart the only real metric is cost. Wal-mart doesn’t really make money off of the movies and do not sell high-end home theater equipment. They are known for aggressive prices and, as mentioned above, they subsidize their DVD sales. They needed something that could sell for under $200 soon and they needed the lowest cost of the new formats. This is where HD DVD shines, not only had Toshiba agreed to license to low cost manufacturers early on, but HD DVDs are pressed on the same lines that regular DVDs are, they require no major equipment change out and the blanks, when compared to Blu-Ray are less expensive as well.

This made the decision simple, Blu-Ray was just too expensive to make this work and any technical advantages were insignificant against Wal-Mart’s need for the lowest cost offering. For them it is about price and that is where HD DVD clearly has the sustainable advantage.

What does this Mean?

It means that any studio wanting Wal-Mart’s support after year end had better be selling HD DVD movies. Wal-Mart won’t be promoting Blu-Ray and, after year end, will increasingly focus their marketing on getting people to buy into HD DVD players and the related HD DVD movie from them.

In short, the Blu-Ray aligned studios will now have to either support both formats or risk losing much of Wal-Mart's business and given how material this business is to them, you have to think that an anti-Wall-Mart decision would have a material impact on their bonuses and career longevity. It certainly puts Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony, in a particularly uncomfortable position.

So, if this move by Wal-Mart is true , and it appears to be (but we won’t know for sure for a few months yet), the format war is likely over and Wal-Mart has declared the winner.

HD DVD camp unable to confirm Wal-Mart HD DVD player

http://www.engadgethd.co...-wal-mart-hd-dvd-player/

FUD trolls...

if you are going to link to an article at least link to one that is not entirely bias. That is one of the few links that says its blu ray

Straw clutching at it's finest, Dave.

The truth is that they called it 'blue laser' HD DVD' (to differentiate between the red laser HD DVD used in China and the HD DVD we know here).
They even used the term 'HD DVD' in English in the document.
No translation required (unless you're going to insist on pretending to be 'confused'.)

Since when was anything with the name 'HD DVD' in it related to BD or Blu-ray, huh?

Tune in, wise up and face it Dave, and then remember & go look at the BD PR BS track record.

If this really had been a BD story your controllers would have been shouting it loud and clear that this proved they had 'won' in every outlet going......and instead of trying to plant FUD (as per) you guys would be droning on about little else for the rest of the year.

The fact that they haven't alone is proof enough that it is nothing to do with BD.

It's HD DVD that has been formulating the links with the Chinese companies (licencing in 2005 and signing deals at CES 2007), not BD.

.....although amusingly enough your PS3s are full of Chinese parts (something to bear in mind when you start trying to slam cheapo Chinese kit, eh?).

Does anyone account for the free coupons being given with BluRay players? Are these discs being paid for? It'd be very easy to make this into a leading-format deal, but there were a lot of free-disc coupons given with all BluRay players... if you're counting freebies, this story is not relevant at all.

And if they re not....

I did say SOLD. free copies are not sold..

Either way, HD-DVD gave away MORE free discs. King King on HD-DVD. 4 free HD-DVD discs on Toshiba players...

http://www.bestbuy.com/s...50012&type=category

free copies are not sold..

Neither are shipped copies, but tell that to Sony.

Either way, HD-DVD gave away MORE free stuff.

But he wasn't talking about *stuff*, was he? He was talking about players, right?

Can you at least try to stay on tack here?

This debate is still too passionate to be rational. Call me when it's over. :(

not players, discs

You seem to be mistaken. Microsoft are the ones that class sold as being shipped.

Hence the 1,000,000 discrenpency between what Microsost say the sales ofthe 360 are, and reality.

"Hence the 1,000,000 discrenpency between what Microsost say the sales ofthe 360 are, and reality."

What does this article have to do with Microsoft or the Xbox 360? You Sony idiots always yap about Microsoft, no matter what the article is actually about. Either way, if you really believe there are a million Xbox360 units sitting in the channel, then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

No, dolt. The comment you replied to was this:

Does anyone account for the free coupons being given with BluRay players?

If you can't keep up, take notes.

Agreed. But, it's fun to watch. This is better than game console wars.

Blu-Ray were giving 20% off Blu-Ray titles with selected players.

Tosiba were offering 4 free HD-DVD discs..

If anything the figures for HD-DVD are overinflated.

Dolt???

drumcat said - "Does anyone account for the free coupons being given with BluRay players? Are these **discs** being paid for? It'd be very easy to make this into a leading-format deal, but there were a lot of **free-disc** coupons given with all BluRay players... if you're counting freebies, this story is not relevant at all."

Links? Proof? Because if you don't have any guess that would make your post a bunch of BS...Wouldn't be the first.

Actually Sony gave away 7 x $10 money off vouchers with new PS3s in the USA.

That side-stepped the issue of freebies not being counted in the sales figures (so double boost for them) cos there was still a sale.

So, who has the distorted figures, hmmmm?

3 million or so PS3s (and a handful of standalones) verses 100k HD DVD standalones (and maybe another 100k XBox HD DVD add-ons & PC/Laptop drives) and the best they can do is sales of 1.2 million verses 935,000 or so?!

Not very impressive.

This is only for the first quarter. Now that HD DVD has released more titles, Q2 will be nearly even. HD DVD is going nowhere, and in fact now that Walmart has ordered 2 million HD DVD players, you can be sure that HD DVD is going to jump into the lead this holiday season.

Carefull what you say, at the Walmart article is still in question, they are many that believe the translation is flawed, and may relate to Walmart buying 2 million Blu-Ray players.

If Walmat buy 2 million cheap Blu-Ray players in 2008, then this will only help Blu-Ray dominate.

If Walmart buy 2 million cheap HD-DVD players in 2008, then they may gather dust, as the format war may well be over by then.

I seriously doubt Walmart fancy bucking the trend, and backing the long short horse, HD-DVD, what with the hardware industry and studios mainly backing Blu-Ray, that would be REALLY foolish..

Carefull what you say, at the Walmart article is still in question, there are many Blu-Ray trolls that believe the translation is flawed, and may relate to Walmart buying 2 million Blu-Ray players.

There, I fixed that for you.

Only Blu-ray fanboys say that the translation is 'flawed'. Numerous people fluent in Chinese will tell you immediately that the article is ONLY referring to HD DVD. The article mentions blue laser HD DVD because in China they have red laser "HD DVD" and needed to make sure that readers knew what they were referring to. And it is THIS YEAR that these players will start selling, so expect some fantastic HDTV and HD DVD deals form Walmart this holiday season.

HD DVD is here to stay, and the BD exclusive studios know it. I expect to hear HD DVD support from at least one of these studios later this year or early 2008. Once this happens, watch the snowball effect in full force.

I wouldn't mind seeing both formats doing well at first. It would give some push to lower costs of both the standalone players on both sides as well as dual-format players.

It's probably the best thing that could happen in this little war. When neither format loses or wins, the consumer wins.

Yay consumer!

That is a VERY good point that I think many people are missing. Without the competition between the two camps there is no way prices would be dropping as fast as they are.

"Only Blu-ray fanboys say that the translation is 'flawed'."

Not me, the people that originally translated the document...

http://www.engadgethd.co...d-dvd-player-on-the-way/

"Pull back the reigns HD DVD fanboys, Akihabara now says that they've made a "huge mistake" with their translation: the original source called it "è—?å…‰ HD DVD and è—?å…‰ means Blu-RAY." In other words, Blu-ray HD DVD. Huh? Word to the wise: since both formats use blue lasers, it's best to wait for an English press release before either camp celebrates."

"the strong support for Blu-ray among movie studio and equipment manufacturers means that consumers have more choices when it comes to players and titles."

What convoluted illogic dreams up asinine statements like that?

More choice would be the choice of multiple formats on an ECONOMICAL player able to actually play them all.

But until one format actually dominates OR until prices come down to commodity prices equivalent to the already OK DVDs, who the @%#$& cares, except for the fanboys trying to push whatever they have a vested interest in?

All of this is a big clusterph*** looking for an audience who cares.

"All of this is a big clusterph*** looking for an audience who cares."

Clear, concise, and correct!

I am a fan of who ever wins but I can tell you the format war IS OVER. Now to wait for prices to come down.

Why is the war over?

1) Studios have already begun releasing their titles on *both* formats.

2) Sony has stated that they have no plans to release any of their properties in the HD-DVD format.

So with that the ONLY thing that could keep HD-DVD alive in the long haul is porn. Since once again Sony won't allow it to exist on their discs.

That could change though with how technology allows for manufacture and duplication. It's not like it was back in the Betamax/VHS days when Betamax lost out because of the Porn factor.

So in the end the "people" are not going to sit by and NOT watch all the movies Sony owns. Not when most the movies if not all soon released on HD-DVD are also available on Blu-Ray. That just doesn't make any sense. The masses will flock to what ever format allows them to watch all their movies.

The End.

Hey Pixelsmack. Universal will not be releasing BD movies. Neither will Weinstein. Or Genius. Or First Look pictures. Where is The Matrix for BD? And did you know that Walmart just ordered 2 million HD DVD players? Blu-ray is going to be in a bad position later this year, and more studios are going to begin supporting HD DVD, as well as CE companies like Onkyo, Meridian, Hitachi, Kenwood, Alpine, Samsung and others. How you like them apples?

Funny how the argument used to be that HD-DVD would fail due to lack of studio support, and now it is supposedly going to from lack of Sony Studio support.

1) Studios have already begun releasing their titles on *both* formats.
By the old BluRay logic, doesn't this mean HD-DVD gained studios? Oh, but we wouldn't want to put it that way would we.

Weinstein, Genius and First Look pictures, never heard of any of these..

Would be interested to hear what titles from each of the above Blu-Ray owners will be missing out on.. As they would have to be pretty big to compete with the Blu-Ray only supporters like Fox, Sony Pictures, Paramount and Disney..

Matrix for Blu-Ray has been announced, as far as I recall, just after the HD-DVD release. Perhaps they want to sell a Blu-Ray copy to the HD-DVD owners when HD-DVD dies!!!

It's interesting you list Hitachi and Samsung, as they are mostly Blu-Ray suppporters, so unlikely to push hard in the HD-DVD market (expensive dual players perhaps)..

Seems your blowing smoke...

Well Benjamin Linus, a well known Sony shill, claims he has never heard of Weinstein or those other studios. I guess the format war is over!

@ Benjamin Linus -- Never heard of Weinstein, Genius or First Look? Well then, I guess you don't care about these HD DVD exclusive movies such as Grindhouse, School for Scoundrels, Black Christmas, The Contract, Hannibal Rising, TMNT, Feast, Clerks 2, Lucky Number Slevin, Derailed, The Matador, Scary Movie 4, Wolf Creek... and future movies like Sin City 2, Hellraiser, Scary Movie 5...

And no, The Matrix for Blu-ray has not been announced until Blu-ray gets its act together. Virtually all currently players are obsolete in that they cannot be upgraded to the new October 31 BD-J 1.1 spec via firmware.

http://www.dvdtown.com/n...ues-saynotoblu-ray/4407

This is why movies like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta and The Matrix Trilogy are not being released on Blu-ray yet.

And by the way, Paramount is not BD-only. They fully support HD DVD as well. (And expect a sci-fi HD DVD surprise this holiday season....)

Weinstein? Seriously?

Well, Grindhouse (In theaters now) comes to mind. Never heard of that one? How about Scary Movie 4....no? Hoodwinked?

That's just a few.

I guess you don't get out much.

First Look did Ronan Inish and Aqua Teen Hunger Force (not very popular, but the first was excellent, and the second funny as hell if you go for that sort of thing).

Never heard of Genius...

You list some interesting studios yourself...

Fox?

Another problem plaguing Blu-ray development is a requirement placed on the organization when it signed a deal with Fox Studios. Fox had demanded that high-definition DVDs utilize a stricter copy-protection format than AACS, which is employed by both Blu-ray and HD DVD. While HD DVD rejected the demand, Blu-ray conceded.

...interesting quote found on BetaNews itself.

Sony? Um, duh?

Paramount?

Paramount Home Entertainment will kick off its Blu-ray and HD DVD summer slate with a double dose of Eddie Murphy, announcing two of the comedian's biggest hits for release this June.

From: http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/show/509

Not exactly Blu-Ray only, eh?

Disney? Has released for Blu-Ray, but is still on the fence on HD-DVD. No official word has yet come down yay or nay on it.

So...it looks like only two of your studios is firm on the Blu-Ray only status, and one of them only so they could get stricter DRM. Nice research, bud.


Matrix for Blu-Ray has been announced, as far as I recall, just after the HD-DVD release. Perhaps they want to sell a Blu-Ray copy to the HD-DVD owners when HD-DVD dies!!!

I've never seen anyone twist logic like that. That must've hurt.

I don't really care which format comes out on top as I don't plan on dealing with either. I do find it amusing that you argue so vehemently yet seem so woefully uninformed.

ROFL! Benjamin accusing someone of blowing smoke...Now that is funny. Ever heard the saying the pot calling the kettle black?

(And expect a sci-fi HD DVD surprise this holiday season....)

Do tell...

It's so very mean of you to tease like that. Especially when there are Sci-Fi fans in the room. :p

" Virtually all currently players are obsolete in that they cannot be upgraded to the new October 31 BD-J 1.1 spec via firmware."

LOL, not this FUD again?

FACT: All current players will play all future BD movies... Movies with extras with BD-J 1.1 won't play in current players (PS3 aside which is updatable)...

Ronan Inish and Aqua Teen Hunger Force..

Quick, where can I buy a HD-DUD player to play these blockbuster titles....

LOL...

Coming Soon to HD-DVD:

Howard the Duck
The Postman
Waterworld
Ishtar
The Adventures of Baron Münchhausen

Yes. Beautiful. Ignore the relevant facts pick the least relevant part of the post to flame.

Wow. You're good.

do you actually *have* anything relevant? Nah...didn't think so.

Just because you put "FACT" in all caps doesn't make it so, where is your source?

FACT: Benjamin needs a life, stat

source -
http://www.betanews.com/...ainst_HD_DVD/1177358830

See, how easy that was?

So basically everybody, but the PS3 owners(maybe) get screwed. Lovely. Your post is working against you here Ben. You say all players will play future movies and then turn around and say "Movies with extras with BD-J 1.1 won't play in current players (PS3 aside which is updatable)...". I have never seen somebody contradict themselves so many times in such a short post. Also you are "assuming" that the PS3 is updatable, but you do not know that. It probably will be, but to try and pass that as fact is just pure ignorance.

I have said this once and I will say it again. The format war has not even begun yet. Until the average consumer starts adopting it these numbers mean nothing. The majority of people still have not even entered into the HD movie market.

The Walmart and China-price effect will drive mass adoption of HD DVD. And given the fact that you can buy a Toshiba HD-A2 today for only $299 tells us that Walmart's HD DVD choices will be $199 or lower. Here comes J6P!

Can we all laugh, when if it turns out that Walmart are actually buying Blu-Ray.

The company that translated the chinese article, have already admitted a "Huge Mistake" in the translation. I think it's a safe bet that it's the fact the were using the term Blu HD DVD to refer to Blu-Ray. This is further strengthened by the mentioning of TDK, who are Blu-Ray only supporter (founding partner infact).

Either way, I reckon there is more to come on teh Walmart story, so I would be careful using it as a reply to every thread here..

HD-DVD uses a blue laser also. This was already cleared up by Chinese speaking members on the AVS Forums.

"This is further strengthened by the mentioning of TDK, who are Blu-Ray only supporter (founding partner infact)."

TDK was just aquired by Imation. Oh, you didn't know that?.

http://www.emedialive.co...le.aspx?ArticleID=12652

@ Benjamin Linus -- HD DVD uses blue lasers. Posters on various forums who are fluent in Chinese have confirmed that the article is referring to blue laser HD DVD players (as opposed to red laser players that are in use in the Chinese market). So yes, Walmart is buying 2 million HD DVD players, and NOT Blu-ray.

By the way, Imation purchased TDK. Imation is part of the HD DVD group.

If I were you I would be careful in trying to assert the "mistranslation" and "TDK is Blu-ray only" defense. It makes you look silly.

Edit: Looks like Latz already replied with the same thing :)

Typical Sony post. Lots of BS and no links to back it up, and no you can't use sonyfanboy.com.

http://www.avsforum.com/...&&#post10351259

TDK, selling HD-DVD players.

http://www.emedialive.co...le.aspx?ArticleID=12652

TDK sold to Imation (An HD-DVD supporter)

Do you research *anything* you say? It would take a Google Jockey no more than 5 minutes to totally discredit pretty much everything you've said in this topic.

Whats up my Latz ! ?

Originality :p

Latz, SB

well we all know sony produce lots of these numbers so why wast time writing about them when everyone knows they cant be trusted

Blu-ray FUD thumpers have been indoctrinated into believing all Blu-ray propaganda.

ROFL, this is a non-story hardly anyone owns blu ray OR HD give it a few years before a winner can be determined

Go blu-ray! The PS3 and the format will win.

@ womfalcs7 -- And then you woke up.

As I stated I am not in either camp yet. Just waiting for the prices to come down. And I still stand by my comment that the war is over.

The Matrix series WILL be coming to BRD, they even said so in a PR release. But the plan is to wait a year.

Still it shows the ground work is already being laid. I bet they release it on BRD well before the year is up and then that trend will vanish.

HD-DVD still has a chance though. Mass cheap players at Wal-Mart and porn...lots and lots of PORN. Do the math. ;)

Look I was right about digtal audio tapes demise, mini-discs demise, Walkmans demise and DIVX DVD players demise. So time will tell.

Walkmans demise

WTF, the Walkman was a HUGE success that spawned an entire industry of similar players. Just because cassettes have faded out of the mainstream doesn't make the walkman a failure.

He never said the Walkman failed, just that it's past it's time. Is twisting the truth how you Sony fanbois always make your arguments?

I am anything but a Sony fanboy. If you've ever read any of my posts you'd know I'm an HD-DVD supporter. He listed a bunch of stuff that were all pretty much market failures, but as much as I dislike Sony the Walkman clearly does not belong in that list.

The PS3 will win, ha. That is why Nintendo and the Wii are kicking it's butt. When Walmart releases a sub $200 HD-DVD player, they will start selling like crazy and then HD-DVD movie title sales will pick up and blow Blu-Ray out of the water. The studios that are Blu-Ray only will have not chose but to release titles on HD-DVD then or lose out on sales....

dat and mini-disc use is still widely used, mainly for electronic bands, but its still there