Dell ships PCs with Ubuntu Linux 8.04, but not all are satisfied

By Jacqueline Emigh, BetaNews

July 21, 2008, 5:30 PM

Dell is now making some consumer notebook and desktop PC models available pre-installed with the latest edition of Ubuntu Linux, "Hardy Heron," in a number of countries. Still, some observers are raising questions about why these same PCs aren't available with Linux elsewhere, as well as around Dell's continued use of Ubuntu in the face of usability and application support issues.

"As of today, consumers can purchase the XPS M1330N and Inspiron 1525N laptops and Inspiron 530N desktop with Ubuntu 8.04 pre-installed at http://www.dell.com/ubuntu," wrote Dell's Anne B. Camden, in a blog entry on Friday.

The PCs with Ubuntu 8.04 pre-loaded are available to consumers in the US, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, "and many Latin American countries (like Mexico and Columbia)," said Daniel Judd, also of Dell, in his own blog on the same day. Dell previously issued an option for Ubuntu 8.03 on some models.

During the LinuxWorld San Francisco time frame in early August, Dell will also add the XPS M1530n and the new Studio 15n to the line-up of PCs available with Hardy Heron as an alternative to Windows, according to Judd, who is product group strategist at Dell.

Actually, before Dell began pre-installing Ubuntu on some models, the first Dell PCs with Linux were offered not by Dell's North American arm, but by Dell's Web site in France, which back in 2005 sold a laptop pre-installed with Mandrake, the predecessor to Mandriva Linux.

This week, customers in some other areas of the globe are wondering online why their countries are not on the Hardy Heron list.

"Great work Dell! Do you have any plans for the Italy market?" wrote one end user, in response to Camden's post.

"Now what about expanding availability to [the] rest of Europe. Like to the birthplace of Linux, Finland! I've been waiting for these Ubuntu machines since they were announced -- and a year later not a single word of other countries. I need a new computer already, guess I'll settle then with Lenovo with SLED [SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop] since those are available here," wrote another.

As with Dell's previous Ubuntu-enabled PCs, the 8.04-installed models will allow for DVD playback right out of the box. Dell also "spent months in development and testing to offer more peripheral support - like ATI Video Graphics, Dell Wireless, [fingerprint readers], HDMI, Bluetooth, and MP3/WMA/WMV," contended Camden, who is a senior PR manager at Dell.

These drivers, she said, "coincidentally were some of the more popular suggestions" on Dell's IdeaStorm, an online suggestion box of sorts operated by Dell.

Yet while Dell has included a lot of new drivers, the company is also encountering some criticism on the Web for sticking with Ubuntu -- which is regarded as a not particularly easy distribution of Linux for most consumers to use, and also as a distribution known to experience compatibility issues with some desktop hardware.

Meanwhile, some critics are bringing up suggestions that Dell ought to ship Linux desktop applications along with the Ubuntu-installed PCs, or that Ubuntu ought be be called upon in some way to provide support to users.

At least one user would also like Linux to be an option across all Dell models. "I understand that you may have reasons behind [a] system not having Linux as an option but surely you do not use hardware that is so non-standard that either Ubuntu or [Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop] will not work with it," he wrote on the IdeaStorm site.

Add a Comment (41 Comments)

BetaNews reserves the right to remove any comment at any time for any reason. Please keep your responses appropriate and on topic. Foul language and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Name (required):

E-mail (required):

Enter Your Comment:

By boomerz37

edited Jul 23, 2008 - 4:10 PM

The best way to get Ubuntu Linux (desktop version) is to get it "pre-installed" and Dell does just that.

This ensures that all the "internal" computer hardware will work, but you should also carefully check the Ubuntu Linux HCL (Hardware Compatiblity Lists) carefully to see if your "external" computer hardware, such as printers, will work properly with Ubuntu Linux.

You can learn how to do this and get lots of Ubuntu Linux desktop training - and watch free sample Ubuntu Linux training videos at:

http://www.iLearnLinux.com/Ubuntu-Linux

Thanks for the post!

Clyde Boom, http://www.iLearnLinux.com
The Easy Linux Training Guy ;) - Easy, self-paced Linux training - in Plain English!

Score: 0

By n1ghthawk01

edited Jul 21, 2008 - 9:51 PM

Ubuntu 8.03 does not exist. The two previous versions are 7.04 or 7.10.

The key is Year.Month as in 8.04 which means 2008 April

Score: 0

By fewt

edited Jul 22, 2008 - 4:14 PM

WOW, thanks for substantiating the "it's hard to use" blurb with some blog posts.

Should I begin to tear into them?

From the first one I clicked:
OH NOES the appearance screen doesn't support drag and drop! I can't believe I have to go to ~/.themes and extract my files with nautilus.

*** OH THE HORROR! (By the way, if you click customize, and you drop your theme tarball on that it works, go figure)

The rest of the "six" annoyances are all related, so it should be "Two annoyances" in Hardy Heron.

Moving on to Ubuntu 4 You:

"The list of problems was long. And the fixes were sporadic, uncertain or very labor intensive."

I'm going to call bullsh*t on this one.

"Wine didn't work along with several other software packages."

Yes it did, lets be honest here. Wine worked just fine out of the gate, I know because I use it on more than 10 computers, a mix of physical and virtual i386 and amd64, on many different CPU types. On release day 'apt-get install my-config' worked just fine (wine is a dependency pulled from the public repository as my windows applications have been repacked as debian packages and pushed to the repository on my thumb drive). The *ONLY* issue with Wine was that it wasn't version 1.0, and windows theme support slowed window draws down. This issue is mitigated by the fact that Windows themes aren't installed or enabled by default in wine.

"Playing videos or doing certain other chores on my system caused the cpu to load up to 100% and at times caused the system to lock up completely."

Then load your video driver! If you are using the ATI driver make sure you enable xvideo, or change your video output in your media player to OpenGL!

"Numerous times my computer would stop responding."

Followed by:

"Finally I had enough and last week I reinstalled Gutsy."

Nice troubleshooting, what would you do if your Windows or Mac crashed reload it too?!

"Microshaft and the crap they call an operating system"

mmmm there are those magic words. So, to "fix" your problems you reload an older version of the OS instead of spending 10 minutes to do basic troubleshooting. Then you go and blast Microsoft for having a crap OS when you can't do simple basic troubleshooting.

Way to gain support for your argument (sarcasm thumbs up /sarcasm).

Now, on to the wondrous forum post:

"February 14th, 2007"

'nuff said

Score: 0

By TaZMAn

edited Nov 22, 2008 - 10:54 AM

fewt!
Your reference to the Ubuntu 4 You blog caught my attention.
I own that blog and have been using Linux long before Ubuntu was around.

Wine would not work. It would start then go into a zombie state. Nothing appeared in the logs about a problem and reinstalling other versions didn't work.

Screen resolution with the "NVIDIA" driver (Had you read my blog) was locked in at a max of 800 X 600 and is still a problem in Hardy as I get many 'hits' a day on my post as how to try and fix it.
I even rewrote the configuration files for the
x-server with no luck.

My problems were based on my experiences and echoed by many users giving me feedback about numerous problems they also had in Hardy.

Trying Hardy and finding it unstable then going back to Gutsy which was stable is no different then all the Windows users who got computers with Vista on it and retrograded to XP.
They did it for the same reasons I retrograded to Gutsy.
Because Hardy was not ready for prime time.
BTW - "Fix" means to remove a defect and replace it with a working item.

Even now Hardy has issues. A fellow user finally had gotten the resolution problems fixed in Hardy only to have it break with a kernel update.
So he upgraded to Ibex and all his problems are magically 'fixed'!

And to say you use it on 10 computers with a mix of physical and virtual is a laugh.
Hardy and Ibex and Gutsy on one computer in virtual mode is still one computer.
And virtual mode uses a non-accelerated generic vga video driver which means you never dealt with the non-free Nvidia driver issue! LMAO!!!

As for me ever going back to Windowz? Never will happen.

Debian Lenny, Vector Linux, DSL. Suse, NimbleX on Gutsy.

Chroot Dude!

TaZMAn

http://tazbuntu.blogspot.com

Score: 0

By DatabaseBen

edited Jul 22, 2008 - 2:50 PM

it sounds like a worthy idea but it lacks real value.

freewares designed for these alternative o.s.'s should be included since the are "FREE", like open office and many others that would make the system "complete" and perhaps equal to a fully loaded PC of Microsoft and adobe products.

then the question becomes would you buy a single pc with only windows installed on it or would you get a better deal by buying a pc with an alternative o.s. and jam packed with freeware especially designed for the alternative o.s.?

i think the answer would be easy.

Score: 0

By inaneframe

edited Jul 22, 2008 - 9:50 AM

"some observers are raising questions about why these same PCs aren't available with Linux elsewhere, as well as around Dell's continued use of Ubuntu in the face of usability and application support issues."

Some? Whom? Vista doesn't have usability and application support issues? What does that mean? What kind of support? Are we talking about phone support or documentation or what? Usability? You find that having to click "yes, I would like to start this installer" three times usable?

"Dell previously issued an option for Ubuntu 8.03 on some models."

Did you JUST start learning about Ubuntu and decided to write up this article about it? The previous version was 7.10 not 8.03, this is a sign of ineptitude on a magnificent scale.

"Ubuntu -- which is regarded as a not particularly easy distribution of Linux for most consumers to use, and also as a distribution known to experience compatibility issues with some desktop hardware."

You find to links and claim that it is "regarded" as not being easy? Here let me point you to literally thousands of websites on how difficult it is to use Vista. "Regarded?" This article should be "regarded" as hogwash.

"Ubuntu ought be be called upon in some way to provide support to users."

Here's your reply:

http://www.ubuntu.com/dell
"Canonical and Dell continue to work together to deliver the best machines running the best of Ubuntu. Ubuntu 7.10 is now fully certified, pre-installed and supported on a range of Dell products. And what's more come with DVD playback pre-loaded.

Canonical continues to offer full commercial support for Ubuntu 7.10 on all of the pre-installed Ubuntu certified Dell hardware products listed below. You can buy support and as an option when configuring your machine."

And the support continues with 8.04 as well.

I see no point to this article other than to try to fill a void of article demand on growing interest in the FOSS market and interject ever more of that sweet M$ FUD that we're all SO used to. Thanks and enjoy the money.

Score: 0

By brad972

edited Jul 21, 2008 - 10:23 PM

Its' about time and its' about stability. Linux has always had the upper in system stability not to mention immune to virus attacks.

Dell offering Ubuntu Linux is about what the public demands. A quality product that will run everyday home and business applications.

Its' the responsibility of the hardware manufacturers to provide their drivers to the software developers in a timely manner or Ubuntu would be no better than Vista.

The latest Linux kernel has more hardware drivers than any version of Windows, especially Vista.

Not to mention that Ubuntu runs as most any Linux distribution will run just as fast if not faster than Vista and only requires a P3 or AMD processor,single core and 256k of ram.

I'm not trying to sell you anything, you can make your own choices. But why spend tons of money on a new OS that won't run your existing hardware?

http://brad972.blogspot.com/

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 10:29 AM

Nice rant. Pointless, but nice.

Vista is sold, by the vast majority of units, pre-configured on a new system. All components working, all drivers loaded.

But lets take a different tack here for a moment...

So linux has more drivers. That's an obvious boon. So let's say Linux scores on that one and Vista fails.

What happens when a *new* device comes out? (The latest, greatest, next generation Video card, Wireless card, network card, etc...)

Vista supports current mainstream and "new" hardware. Linux supports older hardware and *most* current mainstream hardware.

The real question one needs to ask if device support is the only limiting factor, is what kind of devices they intend to use. Old (tried and true), Current (best price/performance ratio) or New (untested, unproven performance)?

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 11:45 PM

No OS is completely stable once you factor in software and drivers from 3rd-party developers... that goes for Linux as well, as I've seen my fair share of kernel panics. Not one single "blue screen" with Vista over the past 1½ years. I cannot say the same for any Linux distro I've ever tried.

I don't necessarily agree with the public demanding Ubuntu specifically... but I do not disagree that enough demanded a free alternative to Windows to justify Dell looking to Ubuntu as the best possible option out of the many that I'm sure they considered. I would dare say that Ubuntu is probably the most mainstream-ready distribution of Linux out there right now.

Yes, it is indeed the responsibility of the hardware manufacturers... no argument there.

As far as the latest Linux kernel is concerned, I would love to see some concrete figures on exactly how many drivers it includes. Compared to previous version of Windows, probably... but compared to "especially Vista", doubtful. As of RTM, the Vista DVD (pre-SP1) contained over 19,500 drivers (hence its size), with an additional 11,700 drivers available through Windows Update. In 1½ years, that number is sure to have grown substantially. I've had extremely good luck with unknown devices in Device Manager through Windows Update recently on Vista. 64-bit support still leaves a lot to be desired on the drivers front, but that seems to be industry-wide... though getting better, slowly.

By the way, if you're not trying to sell anyone on anything, what exactly is the reason for the shameless plug for PC Linux orders?

Score: 0

By fewt

edited Jul 22, 2008 - 8:38 AM

I've seen plenty of Vista crashes, not as many as I've seen Linux kernel panics but I haven't spent much time with Vista.

I recall there were over 100,000 requests in a days time for Ubuntu to be installed on Dell computers over at Dell's Ideastorm.

I don't know how many drivers are in the Linux kernel, but I'd guess it's more than 4x the number that are in Windows. Some examples could be the drivers for TV cards, printers, remote controls, WIFI, etc.

Some of the vendor drivers really suck though, NVidia and ATI are getting better but they are still years behind Windows IMHO.

Score: 0

By PatrynXX

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 10:07 PM

I run Ubuntu 8.04 lts on my spare hard drive in my Dell D820 and never had any hardware problems with it. In fact I plugged my printer in and this time it printed perfectly. Runs far faster. Any other distro is bloated. I suppose they could try Kubuntu, but Ubuntu is easier to use. Linspire is just too controlling for me.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 8:08 AM

Have you suspended or hibernated yet?

heh

Score: 0

By Metshrine

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 7:46 AM

The distros are only as bloated as you make them. I dont run linux as a primary OS and even I know that.

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:36 PM

You screwed up the first link :)

Score: 0

By Tenoq

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:28 PM

Can someone please explain to me what Ubuntu 8.03 is? Was that a pre-release alpha of Hardy Heron? Because I've never seen anyone talking about 8.03 - it was either 7.10 or 8.04.

Score: 0

By XF

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 5:05 AM

8.04 stands for April 2008, 7.10 for October 2007; that's why no 8.03 version (or whichever combination of numbers which don't represent a release date) exists!

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:19 PM

They are wondering that while im wondering why its taking them a full month to build my laptop when none of the options said they would delay my order.

Score: 0

By slumbergod

edited Jul 21, 2008 - 7:39 PM

I've waited *ages* for Dell to finally offer Ubuntu laptops in Mexico (where I am currently residing). When they finally appeared on the website, they were more expensive than a machine with the same specs and Vista. When I posted this fact on a Dell-sponsored website they threw a hissyfit. It is understandable they want to cash in on the open source wave, but do they need to be greedy too?

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:47 PM

Greedy? Well yes, they do since profit is the only important thing to them.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Jul 22, 2008 - 9:54 AM

Which makes complete sense, ya know...since they're a business and all.

Score: 0

By shy_one

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 1:39 AM

I don't know if profit is what the extra money is for with Linux i don't think Dell would be able to get away with just teaching some cheap third world help English and go heres some scripts a phone and if the person isn't fed up and still on the phone when your done reading transfer the call to the next level of support.

Score: 0

By slumbergod

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 7:39 PM

I've waited *ages* for Dell to finally offer Ubuntu laptops in Mexico (where I am currently residing). When they finally appeared on the website, they were more expensive than a machine with the same specs and Vista. When I posted this fact on a Dell-sponsored website they threw a hissyfit. It is understand they want to cash in on the open source wave, but do they need to be greedy too?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 6:08 PM

spent months in development and testin to

OK...what lame-ass spell checker are *you* using, Jaq?

Ubuntu -- which is regarded as a not particularly easy distribution of Linux for most consumers to use, and also as a distribution known to experience compatibility issues with some Linux desktop applications.

Regarded by whom? Linux trolls? The general consensus amongst most Linux users is, in fact, the exact opposite.

Score: 0

By nate

edited Jul 21, 2008 - 6:46 PM

You're right, the links got stripped out for some reason. That paragraph has been corrected.

And while compared to other distributions, Ubuntu is easy, it's still not really easy for the general public. It ain't Slackware, but it's also no Mac OS X.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 11:24 AM

Great!

Upgrade issues, and problems with esoteric functionality is now the bar for easy or not-so-easy operating systems.

I'll admit, some of those issues would annoy me if I used that functionality, but I wouldn't necessarily call the distro broken or label it as "not easy" just because it is missing some esoteric features only I and 2 other people use.

Score: 0

By God Dammit

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 2:20 AM

Slackware Linux is by far the most difficult Linux distribution to use. Instead of using a package management system like DEB or RPM that's easy to update and maintain it uses old gzipped TAR files. Slackware also still has a text based installer. Certainly not easy for someone who's computer illiterate.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 8:28 AM

Linux from scratch may be slightly more challenging. ;-)

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 11:16 PM

Actually, I believe "Ubuntu" is ancient Swahili for "can't configure Slackware". :)

Score: 0

By fewt

edited Jul 21, 2008 - 10:09 PM

Mac OSX is no Linux either. ;-)

I'd argue that Ubuntu absolutely is the easiest Linux to use out there today.

Mandriva and Fedora are ok, but they still haven't fixed dependency hell (very well) after all these years. Getting further into the details, yum is a great step in the right direction, and building yum repositories with createrepo is just as easy as using reprepro to build deb repos but it's still not very good at self correcting (IE: apt-get -f install).

If you are going for a distribution that has the kitchen sink, Ubuntu is probably not it. Well, it's not it until you click the checkboxes in Administration -> Software Sources, then it's untouchable by RPM based Linux.

The driver manager in 8.04 is GREAT. Yeah, 8.04 had lots of bugs on release day, but what OS doesn't?

:-D

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 11:13 PM

I tend to agree on all points with regards to 8.04. It has been a relative dream to use compared to previous releases (and compared to other distros).

I'm still quite a Linux newbie, but I've test driven enough distributions over the years to know what I don't like... and I like Ubuntu. Debian-based distros are the mutt's nuts. :)

Speaking of bugs, I'm eagerly awaiting a more stable version of KDE 4. I've always leaned more towards KDE than Gnome... and version 4 is looking very promising so far.

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:48 PM

Windows isn't really easy for the general public either. That is why they get $40 per techs to defrag their hard drives.

Score: 0

By spiked

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 7:54 PM

And Mac OS X ain't a Linux distribution. You're comparing Apples to penguins.

Score: 0

By nate

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 12:42 AM

I was referring to usability. Underneath the hood, Mac OS X is UNIX-based, but the consumer doesn't have to deal with the same problems as if they were running a Linux distribution like Ubuntu.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 22, 2008 - 8:31 AM

By dealing with problems, do you mean clicking extra checkboxes, or do you mean problems like you see on Mac OSX where the screensaver refuses to activate when you hit the hot corner, or the laptop not coming out of sleep?

We have tons of Macs, and everyone has had problems with them.

That doesn't mean they aren't good, but they aren't the Holy Grail of computing either.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:29 PM

No, you're right... it's a BSD distribution. But you know what? Underneath that spiffy well-polished desktop environment, it's Unix-like... just like Linux.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:24 PM

OSX = a functional user friendly gui with a Linux core.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 10:04 PM

There is no Linux in OSX.

Mac OSX is an OpenSTEP fork which was a fork of Mach, which happens to be a fork of 4.2BSD which is absolutely NOT Linux (not that there is anything wrong with BSD, it's just NOT Linux).

Thanks.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 11:19 PM

I remember trying out PC-BSD a few months ago... not bad at all. I was pleasantly surprised.

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 8:20 PM

So you think anyways.

Score: 0

By Diam0nd

posted Jul 21, 2008 - 5:52 PM

"which is regarded as a not particularly easy distribution of Linux for most consumers to use"
Obviosly person who coined that did NOT tried all other crappy linuxes...

Score: 0

By brad972

posted Nov 5, 2008 - 9:27 PM

Ubuntu is based upon Debian but is not Debian because of Debians' philosophy about free software. Then again, Windows does not include all of the multimedia codecs or browser plugins either, they have to be installed by the end user. Ubuntu just makes it easier to install them than some other Linux distros.

Ubuntu is fairly easy to use and does just about everything you could possibly want it to do.

I install and configure PCs and laptops with different Linux distros and I must admit, it is much easier to install Ubuntu than Windows especially on laptops than say Windows due to hardware driver issues.

If you're looking for a similar desktop OS thats' a bit faster and less bloated, I suggest you try Debian Etch. Its' basically the same thing without all of the extras you don't initially need and preconfigures drivers on the installation as well.

KDE is a faster desktop yet and offers tons of hardware support and is more Windows like than Gnome which Ubuntu is. You could always install Kubuntu if you prefer KDE though.

I do have to admit, I'd much rather do a Debian, Ubuntu, Mepis, PC Linux, Fedora etc install over doing a Windows install anyday.

Its' simply much faster and easier.

Try this link if you're interested:

http://www.freewebs.com/brad972/

Score: 0