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Fox: No Plans to Support HD DVD

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

December 2, 2005, 11:12 AM

In the ongoing battle between still-unreleased next-generation DVD formats, Fox Filmed Entertainment has already chosen sides. The studio says it sees Sony's Blu-ray as the clear winner due to PlayStation 3 support, and, unlike other studios, will not produce movies in HD DVD.

The public backing by Fox comes amid wavering support from the computer industry due to Blu-ray's restrictive copy-protection scheme. HP has retreated from Blu-ray's camp after Intel and Microsoft strongly pledged their support for HD DVD instead.

But Fox and other studios like the strict technology that will prevent consumers from utilizing future movies as freely as current DVDs. HD DVD employs more lax copy controls and ensures support for streaming movies to different locations throughout the home.

"We believe that Blu-ray not only has the superior technology and backing in terms of strength to market but also the superior content protection," Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman James Gianopulos told attendees Thursday at the Reuters Media and Advertising Summit in New York.

Bill Gates, however, recently labeled Blu-ray's content protection as anti-consumer. "The inconvenience is that the [movie] studios got too much protection at the expense consumers and it won't work well on PCs," Gates explained.

The rift in future DVD support could prove damaging to the technology before it even gets off the ground. Consumer electronics companies and computer manufacturers excluding Dell have staunchly backed Toshiba's HD DVD. Movie studios have pushed Blu-ray, although many have plans to ship films in both formats.

One key issue is the use of iHD, which would provide new interactive features to the next-gen DVDs. Blu-ray has rejected calls to utilize iHD, instead relying on a Java-based menu system.

But iHD is already slated to be part of both rival standard HD DVD and Windows Vista. And with sales of entertainment PCs beginning to surge, companies like HP don't want to miss the boat when it comes to a potentially valuable feature that will be natively supported by Windows.

"Based on that discussion and technical reviews, we decided iHD is a must, if you will, for the PC implementation of next-generation optical discs," said HP's director of strategic alliances Josh Peterson.

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By Nobodey

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 3:54 PM

I have to laugh at all you guys who bring the rootkit issue into this.
Sony screwed up. They backed the wrong horse. Then when told they backed the wrong horse, hey refused to admit it might be true, thus screwing up more.
This placed a vulnerabily on probably 5 to 10 percent of the computers out there. That sucks and yes, they should be held accountable.
(The sarcasm starts here)
So lets boycott Sony. You see that drive at the top of your tower? Ya, throw that away. Because pehaphs it wasnt made by Sony, but the laser is it was. Oh, those discs that hold your backup data? Could not have been made without technology made by sony. Those CD's in your car? The CD player? The MP3 player? ANY commonly used digital media of almost any kind? Ya, thats a Sony based laser. Now giving credit where credit is due, Philips was doing the same thing at the same time, but Sony implemented it into the main stream.

Yes, they screwed up. But the second you decide to boycott Sony for rootkit, how about boycotting Microsoft for almost every other vulnerability your computer has? Mind you I am not saying boycott Microsoft. I am saying base your desicions on the products, not the company that makes them. Not what they have done in the past, but what they are doing now and what they will do in the future.

By the way, Yes, I support Blue-Ray, as I know that no matter how much protection it has at one point flexibility will become a consumer, hence corporate issue. However as much as I support it, I don't believe Sony's gonna win this one. But thats alright. They have basically already declared themselves winners of the console wars and their's hasnt even been released yet. Is there a way to make sweet sweet love to a dime-size NVidia chip?

Score: 0

By Neoprimal

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 3:20 PM

I'm done with the HD/BR debate. It could go either way. Lets face it....companies are sick and tired of people stealing their content, so they (like fox) will more than likely go BR. There's also the typical method of explaining away why you're still going to charge 30 for 1 disk, instead of for 5 or 6 of them. They can say, "well we'd like to sell the products for $20 but the BR format is a costly one", this is basically the reason given to an 11 DVD set costing 90+ dollars. I ofcourse prefer HD, because of it's streaming properties....but we'll see. Right now all we can really do is wait and see.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 12:20 PM

Are you people still debating on this!?

Lets make this simple for everyone arguing

Cost will be the choice in this war, HD-DVD costs about 30% less than BD-Rom, So even though BD-Rom offers more space than HD-DVD, HD-DVD will more likely be chosen because of cost.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:34 PM

What is your primary source for this information, and what costs are you talking about -- replication, wholesale, retail?

Score: 0

By mjm01010101

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 8:30 AM

I think neither format will "win" and we'll see some other distribution by 2007 that will supplant both, be it online, holographic, or whatever.

Physicial mediums for digital distribution are old hat.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:35 PM

Keep dreaming, and wake up in at least 10 years. Physical media will still be here. Technology announcements may move fast, but the average consumer's pace of change is glacial.

Score: 0

By heat_fan1

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 1:21 PM

The capacity of the disk is actually very important. Imagine an entire season of a tv show in high definition on 1 disk instead of 3. That's definitely a big point. Or having the Lord of the Rings trilogy in HD on one disk instead of 3. There's definitely an advantage there.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:37 PM

... and don't think the rights holders who market those TV shows haven't thought about the price/value perception of getting a full season on one disc instead of four or five. People will think they're being overcharged (even though they're not) if one disc costs the same as four -- even if it does contain the same volume of content. Technology is not a panacea for marketing issues. Sometimes, it introduces more complications, not less.

Score: 0

By shy_one

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 11:22 PM

Yes i would perfer one disk instead of three but i would prefer to just load it into my computer and steam around the home and Blu-Ray doesn't want to suport that.

So the question falls back onto you would you rather have three disks in storage(with no risk of getting scratched)and easily access it with a remote control so you don't even have to get up and search your collection just hit a button on the remote and choose what you want or have one disk that you have to search for(people with kids know how fast things get mixed up) and drag it with you living room den or bedroom(lots of people watch tv while going to sleep)and still risk it getting scratched.

Sure streaming media around the home isn't mainstream yet but as it catches on a bit more prices will drop encouraging more people to try it Microsofts already gotten the ball rolling on this with media center pcs and media center extender.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 1:33 PM

It was thought initially that Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD would bring that sort of a ratio, but I doubt seriously we will see those capacities in use considering how long it took Sony to get the initial prototypes out the door.

Score: 0

By KSzostek

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 12:45 PM

We already have a history with Fox making wrong decisions ...don't we?

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:39 PM

You obviously haven't seen its balance sheet lately. We all should be making such "wrong" decisions.

Score: 0

By snakes200

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 4:40 PM

i am gonna laugh when HD-DVD kicks so much butt and blu ray fails. just cause the PS3 will play blu ray discs don't mean anything. HD-DVD is going to be cheap and it will work on PC's better as well. and when HD-DVD emerges the winner fox will think to them selves oh crap we need to make HD-DVD movies or we will lose a ton of money.

Score: 0

By Jim

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 8:10 PM

I'm going to laugh when you fail 3rd grade again for the 5th time. However all grammar aside, I'm rooting for blu-ray on this one. It'll eventually play on computers, just as the players will eventually be $30 each like they are for dvd's now.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:42 PM

Keep in mind, Jim, there may be $30 players now, but DVD is heading into its ninth year, so don't hold your breath waiting for sub $100 high-def disc players in any format.

Score: 0

By Neoprimal

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 3:30 PM

Jim, the problem isn't the 'playing' of BR on computers. It's the ability to stream them throughout the post millenia home. 2K5 has seen many advancements, and 2K6 will see even more. People would like to be able to stream media from their PC or Media Devices throughout the home - instead of having to sit by the PC/Living Room TV, etc, people would like to pop the disc into one machine and be able to watch it wherever there's a TV set up. Likewisee, we want the ability to do something if it can be done. It's ours, we purchased it. If I want to copy stuff to a BR disc and access it off a computer somewhere else in the network, I'd like to be able to do that. Currently, BR proposes that you cannot do this. Only the devices into which the disc is inserted will be able to 'see' it and it won't be IP transportable, meaning that the PC in the next room won't see the disc in your BR drive. That really sucks. Another reason people are shying away from BR is the whole PS3 rumor about not being able to play used content (the information posted is that the PS3 will render a new disk 'bonded' to it *to make it short*. That disk will therefore not be playable on another PS3 device). The patent has been made, but has not been made for the PS3 per se. It could be said that this tech could be used in BR movies so that they bond to the first player they're played on.
Down to the nitty gritty, the problem with BR is TOO MUCH PROTECTION. This translates to customers losing freedom/features and money.

Score: 0

By smolavision

posted Jan 4, 2006 - 5:11 PM

Wow, lets hope 'bonding' doesn't happen. If that's the case you could probably add Gamestop, Gamecrazy, Blockbuster etc. to the companies against BR, How the heck r u going to rent movies to PS3 owners? How can they sell off the overstock of new releases. Also once you 'beat' a game you can't trade it in any more. There are thousands of game stores doing business with trade-in merchandise. I don't care much about streaming. However if I buy a game or video I better be able to watch it or play it on any console/player I wish. I wont drag a PS3 over to the neighbor's to play a selection he doesn't own. (which I'm sure Sony wants) If you want it, you have to but it.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Dec 4, 2005 - 11:10 PM

DVD players are $30 now, but it took them 5+ years to get there.

I doubt Blu-Ray players would be in that price range within 5 years if the format is even around for that long.

(p.s.)
Grammar lesson:

You need a comma after "However."

"One" is not a valid pronoun.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 1:35 PM

lol

Score: 0

By tremens

edited Dec 4, 2005 - 2:26 AM

Why would the average user want to upgrade to blu-ray, even oblivious to sony's recent rootkit fiasco? Anybody who does not understand the limitations that will be imposed by bluray's drm, will be just getting settled into DVD format, I highly doubt most will be willing to pay the higher cost for additional enhancements that will not be taken advantage of. The technology saavy will avoid completely for obvious reasons. i predict the bluray format will be used by ps3 obviously and abandoned (temporarily at least) by movie studios once the cost of manufacturing and support to public acceptance ratio has been more clearly defined. As of November 18th, 2005, Sony has just released their first BluRay movie(charlies angels: full throttle, compressed and authored in MPEG 2 full high-definition (1920 x 1080)) to the hardware manufacturers for testing, thus still exists mostly on paper. Many unknown variables still on the BluRay side.

Sorry but HDDVD, brings only slight changes in manufacturing process compared to traditional DVDs. HDDVD/DVD hybrid standalone and pc drives will be much more affordable. DVD has had too short of a life span to be abandoned for a dramatically different (and more expensive) technology such as blueray. Blueray's advantages are more in the (playstaton3 Games)data capacity aspect than in video. If movies are encoded in mpeg4 avc, it doesn't matter which format is used, there's plenty of room for movie and other features. Blueray's DRM and lack of iHD negate it's higher disc capacity, because it's not going to be friendly with anything besides the playstation3 anyways.

PS Blue laser optical is where things are heading, but Blu-Ray is not the answer. Too premature, with too many strings attached.

Score: 0

By shy_one

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 12:41 AM

I said it before and i will say it again HD-DVD will win because the average person does not care about the few extra gigs for extra video/sound quality it will be hardly noticeable if at all and as for burning look at the non geeks other than pirates they have no need to burn that much stuff it's more for geeks and companies not the average person and the average person will just pick the cheaper of the two.

Another reason HD-DVD will have an advantage is Microsoft is in their camp and if Microsoft permotes it properly is streaming media through out the home and they already have been testing this out with media center pcs with a good media blitz and and they can afford a good one the average person will look and go it's cheaper and i can stream it around the house if i choose to that will sell a lot of people to it.

What does Blu-Ray have that would make the average person choose it it will be more expencive more copy protection they will have managed copy i believe but they want to take away the ability to stream it the only advantage Blu-Ray has is the PS3 will get into many homes but most people i know use a regular DVD player to watch DVDs even thou they own Xboxes and PS2s and don't mention the Sony rootkit the average person doesn't know about it unfortunatly(sad but true)

Score: 0

By muzicman73

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 12:36 AM

There seems to be a pattern here.

Betamax vs. VHS
Minidisc vs. Digital Compact Cassette
SACD vs. DVD Audio
Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD

You win some, you lose some. I look forward to being able to play Blu-Ray movies on a PS3, I would prefer that there wasn't as much copy protection, but that's not my decision. Both formats will have to be affordable to survive, and maybe both will stick around for awhile ala DVD+R vs. DVD-R or SACD vs. DVD-Audio. But that will only happen with "universal" players or burners. The general public won't pay much higher of a price for higher definition: SACD and DVD Audio Discs are only slightly more expensive than cds, dvd aren't much more expensive than vhs tapes, cds cost little more than cassettes.

If it were up to the movie studios we would have less consumer rights, hopefully we won't stand for it. I should be able to record my high def television shows to either blu-ray or hd-dvd, since the vcr we've been able to record broadcast, that shouldn't change regardless of definition.

It's only a matter of time before any copy-protection is broken, either through software or modded hardware.

Score: 0

By drock912001

edited Dec 24, 2005 - 4:57 AM

Minidisc was introduced as recordable disc.Sony patent the technology that's why it never took off.Pioneer and Kenwood both made MD players for the car and recorders for the home once Sony patent had expired.

Score: 0

By kgruber

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 2:45 PM

The manufacturing costs of CDs is less than a cassette. However, recording studios charge you more for higher quality.

Score: 0

By dvdj

edited Dec 5, 2005 - 9:45 PM

Point of information: recording studios don't charge "you" for anything. They charge the record labels, who charge you.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Dec 3, 2005 - 11:51 PM

CDs are also more expensive because the demand for them is much higher.

That's basic economics.

Score: 0

By kgruber

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 10:48 PM

Take a look at Fox's statement piece by piece.

"We believe that Blu-ray not only has the superior technology" means Fox doesn't have the content or programming muchless an audience that can afford these HD technologies, but hey,
it's got them fancy "blue lasers" and can store more stuff!

"and backing in terms of strength to market" means that Fox hopes you are ignorant of recent defections or bi-format announcements from fence sitters; and equate brand awareness of traditionally proprietary companies that are well known (e.g. Apple, Sony) with market share strength.

"but also the superior content protection," means Fox envisions other revenue streams that are ordinarily cannibalized by unpatriotic commies still hooked on FAIR USE (e.g. streaming your movies in home, transferring movies to your portable media player, backup copies, etc.).

Score: 0

By zee7

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 3:20 PM

LOL! Spot on, kgruber!

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:46 PM

Yep. He's "spot on" wrong on every point.

Score: 0

By rogue99

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 9:20 PM

Looking at history, having Disney and Fox supporting it is probably the WORST thing that could happen to Blu-Ray. Remember, these were the two biggest holdouts when it came to DVD... They both stood behind DIVX until it's none too soon death.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 10:10 AM

Someone else remembers those DIVX discs? I knew I wasn't crazy! Agreed.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:48 PM

The only thing wrong with DiVX was that the general transactional concept and technology was years ahead of its time. The basic DiVX model in fact is where one segment of online content will end up anyhow: Micro-payments for individual content with a time-sensitive viewing window.

Score: 0

By gsbrock

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 11:20 AM

hehe divx, go circut city go! lol

Score: 0

By amed

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 4:19 PM

http://www.tgdaily.com/2..._and_loses_bda_requests/
Blue-ray agreed to support the content managmet that hd-dvd support ( the idea of streaming media). The only thing they disagreed on was not to support iHD (xml) instead they are supporting BD-J (java based).

Blue-Ray will be the clear winner. The only argument that hd-dvd has over blue-ray is price. But everything starts off at high price then drops within 6 months. Plus, when ps3 comes out millions will be adoptin to blue-ray leaving HD-dvd in the dust

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 6:49 PM

I frankly don't care what they do. I'll support HD-DVD over them in a heartbeat. The money is what matters most--WHY DO WE NEED MORE SPACE? Make HD-DVD drives for movies so they don't cost $40 a disc and make Blu-Ray for those flunkies who want more backup storage space. I won't buy a blu-ray disc even if it means I won't be able to buy movies in the future, I'm that hard-headed about it. Sony can kiss my--

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 4:34 PM

What are consumers gona throw that boomerang of a controller and every person that gets hit by it is infected with the Rootkit?

Score: 0

By Mark Gillespie

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 2:58 AM

Hey dumba**, what has rootkits got to do with Blu-Ray?

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 10:21 AM

lol. I guess you lack the maturity to read news, or to construct any sort of argument. On top of that you lack the intelligence to understand a joke(I HOPE) when you read one.

Like Wincement said, Sony is also knee deep right now in lawsuits and consumer uproar due to the hellstorm that is the XCP/DRM/Rootkit fiasco.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 4:00 AM

"Hey dumba**, what has rootkits got to do with Blu-Ray?"

You been in a cave the past month?

Rootkits and Blu-Ray are both made by Sony.

Score: 0

By BIL

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 2:05 PM

I won't switch over to Blu-ray just because I am boycotting everything Sony until they make ammends for the rootkit snafu and other similar actions. I had to replace my Sony monitor and I did not by another Sony. I also am in the market for a new TV. I was going to buy a Sony HD but not anymore. Sony has no idea yet how much they damaged themselves. A widescale boycott would be helpful in reminding the whole industry that the consumers dollars keep them in business.

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:40 PM

I just bought a 60-inch Sony LCD HD TV and love it. Keep 'em coming, Sony. There's more than enough of us out here who could give two you-know-whats about rootkit and will remain loyal customers. As for the others, if they weren't complaining about you and rootkit, they'd find something else to complain about. Just the nature of the beast.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 10:13 AM

The rootkit isn't as much the problem...it's Sony's response to the problem.

Score: 0

By dvdj

edited Dec 3, 2005 - 2:47 PM

Still not the point, which is that 90% of the consumer public doesn't pay attention to techie stuff like this. Sony recalled 4 million rootkit CDs. That equates to about 1+% of the U.S. population. Let me amend that: 99% of the public doesn't give a hoot about rootkit or Sony's response. File it under "get a life."

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 7:43 AM

Oh, so just because the masses are asses, we should all join them. Bend over buddy, Sony knows where you live!

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:52 PM

You're right. Sony does know where I live. So? And I am bent over. I have a back problem. What are you, a sadist?

Score: 0

By tremens

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 12:35 AM

this guy writes trojans with $sys$ and wants your credit card numbers. how do you think he bought a 60inch sony tv?

Score: 0

By dvdj

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:50 PM

How did I buy it? On credit, Einstein.

Score: 0

By gsbrock

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:06 PM

Amen to that brother :)

Score: 0

By KSzostek

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:56 PM

It's their loss!

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:22 PM

Last time I checked BETAMAX was not the winner in the Beta/VHS war. Betamax was the sony propietary crap they tried to shove up consumers behinds. The consumers answered with not buying the substandard propietary product. The same will happen here, Sony will try to push their propietary junk and the consumer will turn around and buy HD-DVD.

BTW, last time I checked the PS3 is just vaporware. THE DEVKITS ARE NOT EVEN OUT YET, as in devs havent been able to get them. So atm the PS3 is just a Sony promise and nothing more.

Score: 0

By heat_fan1

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:40 PM

PS3 is vaporware? Are you stupid? It's coming out next year, with Blu-Ray. You're the only person in the world who even thinks about doubting that fact.

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:47 PM

Have you seen the actual console working yet? NO. Has any developer recieved the DevKits? NO

Have we seen any actual gameplay footage? NO. What we have seen is Prerendered JUNK and false promises! Remember back in the PS2 launch how they said the PS2 would be able to display toystory in real time? HAHAHAHAHA

Anyone who believes this hype is nuts.. Until they have a working machine it is all vaporware.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:10 PM

YES! I have :)

http://media.ps3.ign.com....wmv%3Fposition%3Dfront

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:12 PM

Prerendered k thanks.

None of the E3 videos were realtime, it has been stated over various news sites over the last few months.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:21 PM

Did you watch the part where they showed in game action? The guy was HOLDING a PS3 controller, and controlling the views in game...hmm prerendered?

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 3:22 PM

Cant watch the video from work. But ill take your word for it, but I am still a bit skeptical since there has been absolutly no pictures no nothing on the PS3 hardware since E3.

However you should accept the fact that most of the stuff on E3 was Pre rendered. Please dont make me go looking for articles on the web, cause they are there but I dont feel like doing more research today =p

Score: 0

By bleh427

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 7:34 AM

It's obvious you must be some Xbox 360 fan. Just because you are willing to shell out $300+ for an advanced TV-out card (or perhaps over $500 for the premium bundle), does not mean that the PS3 is "vaporware".

Let's look at what is going to happen here...

GFX processor: Nvidia RSX "Reality Synthesizer" (ps3) vs. generic ATI card. owned.

Graphics Clock Speed: 550MHz (ps3) vs. 500. owned.

Resolution: 9 possible (ps3) vs. 5 possible. owned

Media: 80GB vs. oh, sorry... dual-layer DVD ROM? owned

Cell processor vs. custom IBM CPU .owned

Terraflops: 2.0 vs. 1.0 owned.

Wireless: x7 Bluetooth vs. x4 2.4ghz RF. owned.

Memory: 256MB XDR@3.2GHZ+256MB@700MHZ vs. 512MB@700MHZ+10MB Embedded. owned!!

Over 150 titles in development including GTA, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Grand Turismo vs. generic racing games, Doom clones (Halo), etc... owned...

Sorry, I guess its not in your favor! You are going to realize what 80GB of media capacity is going to do to the video game industry quite soon...

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 8:21 AM

HAHA ATI GENERIC CARD. thats a good one. The ATI card was custom made for the Xbox360, and is not part of any GPU that ATI has put in the market, acording to them it is a stronger GPU than R520 aka FUDO card. You are comparing a working vidcard, to NVdias concept card, oh btw that RSX card is based off the 7000 architecture, so you can find most of what ull see in the PS3 in stores right now.

Cell processor is an unproven technology. Add to that the fact that programming for the PS3 is twice as hard than it was for the PS2.

All of these numbers you threw out there, are speculation. They say these are the final numbers but until I SEE A WORKING PROTOTYPE I wont belive them, you shouldnt either consindering sonys long standing record of PR BS.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 9:30 AM

Well, Obviously ATi's Customer card for the X360 isn't all that great if most of the crashes are due to Video failure :P, I've been a Big fan of ATi for a long time, But nVidia has always been the best, Lately ATi has been falling down, and screwing up constantly... I mean, If you compare the X1800 VS 7800GT, The 7800 Blows the X1800 Away in benchmark, The new X1000 Series cards is based off of the chip they use for the X360...hmm, where as the Chip developed for the PS3 by nVidia is now used in the 7 Series. What does that tell you? nVidia's Chip is better. Plan and simple.

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 10:34 AM

Actually the crashes are caused by overheating of the powersupply. You see it is a little known fact, that most consumers fail to realize that they should READ THE MANUAL. In said manual it is stated, that the powersupply aka brick on a string should be well ventilated.

Good ventilation doesnt come from putting a powersupply on a carpet, or next to a heat emitting source.

The overheating of the Powersupply was the cause of the crash problems in the 360.

On top of that, like with any other mass produced piece of equipment, there are instances were a console could be DOA or were some of the Powersupplies were not supplying the correct voltage(from what ive read it was due to failiure from one of the PSU manufacturers).

Actually the architecture for the x1800 cards is the 530(FUDO) arch. The one used for the 360 is 550 if im not mistaken.

Also if your memory doesnt serve you right, ATI and Nvidia have been in a tugofwar the past few years. before the 7 series, the x800 and x850 line of cards were blowing the 6800s out of the water, and by alot. Personally I love that they keep going like this, because it means more advances, and better stuff for us the consumer. Actually Nvidia slipped until this latest iteration, as far as performance and reliability. Heres a small history lesson =) After the 4 series of Nvidia cards, came their worst line of video cards, the 5 series. They were the first to utilize two slots on the mobo, and were know for running very hot as well as not performing to standard. This is were ATI started catching up with their 9X00 series. After that Nvidia released the 6 series, which IMO was a huge improvement in performance, and in stability. These cards were awesome, however ATI took a step forward with the X8X0 series. So now the tide is on Nvidias side again, but I wouldnt be surprised if it turned to ATIs side on the next gen. Specially once ATI gets a handle of their CrossFire chipset.

Are you gona tell me now, that Intel is better than AMD?

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 11:09 AM

For the record I believe that NVIDIA seems more stable overall, so I prefer them. However, given MS's experience with NVIDIA for the original XBox, I can understand the switch. Currently ATI's video IS better than the PS3 specs of the NVIDIA card, but the PS3 isn't released yet so anything can happen. I agree with you about the 360, Jedite.

Score: 0

By lynux

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 12:58 PM

Haha. Look at all you fools saying "bad move" and "who cares about fox?" and all that crap. Bunch of Sony haters, HD-DVD is dead. Get over it. www.blu-ray.com, get used it.

Blu-ray is going to win the next-gen format, anyone who hates it can suck it.

Score: 0

By Hall9000

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 4:04 AM

Bunch of Sony haters? With what has happened recently with that infamous rootkit with CDs I don't hate Sony. I have total disrespect for that company. Should Sony find a way to copy protect its Cds? Yes. Should it install a rootkit on my computer? Absolutely and irrevocably NO! After such a blatant disrespect of its customers one is left wondering if they aren't doing the same things with their DVDs, no matter how good or how bad the recording technology they would use.

Score: 0

By gsbrock

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:43 PM

What you fail to realize (even though the competition is not yet over betwene HD DVD and Blu-Ray):

Even if Blu-Ray had NO competition it does not mean it will replace DVD as a standard. Take laserdiscs for example - these were supposed to be replacements for VCR tapes, but consumers rejected the format, and a such it flopped, this could still happen with Blu-Ray, regardless of the Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD battle.

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By dvdj

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 6:59 PM

gsbrock, your history is askew (and no, this ain't Kevin Smith). How could laserdiscs be posited as a replacement for videotape when they were introduced in the mid to late 70s at the same time as half-inch consumer videotape (first Sony's Beta, then JVC/Panasonic's VHS). Laserdisc failed simply because it was blindsided by the recording ability of videotape, plain and simple.

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By gsbrock

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 11:18 AM

Um there were a lot of reasons it failed, and the real push for lasterdiscs wasn't really until the mid 80's.

It failed cause it was bulky (LP size), expensive (50+ a disc), non recordable, etc... there were alot of reasons. On the flip side, it offered surround sound and better resolutions than VHS.

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By smith288

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:30 PM

You sound like a genius.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:26 PM

Um at last check Blu-ray had two supporters and HD-DVD has better than 10X that.

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By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:36 PM

Hey fellas, honestly, I'm trying to respond to set this guy straight, but I can't stop laughing at the nonsense he's spewing. I mean, where do you start if he really believes what he says? Let us all join hands as we pray for his salvation ...

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 11:03 PM

Where are your links showing that you have any understanding about anything other than how to laugh at your own jokes?

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:35 PM

only 2 supporters?? where are you getting your information from!?!?!?

http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/bda_06.jpg

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 1:39 PM

Um HP backed out like a month ago.
http://www.betanews.com/...uray_Backing/1132245186

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By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:33 PM

People like you think HP backed out. People in the know realize HP is posturing as a negotiating tactic.

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 10:19 AM

Oh...so you're with the people that are in "the know". In other words, Blu-ray supporters are smarter than HD-DVD supporters, and nobody who supports HD-DVD is in "the know", right? Are Microsoft and Intel not in "the know" either? Is everyone who doesn't think like you a moron? Just some thoughts to ponder.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 11:03 PM

Umm maybe you should look some information up.

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By maniakmx3

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 1:46 PM

ooo ok..1 company... Look at all the rest.

In the words so commonly used so far.

"who cares about" HP anyway?

Their CD/DVD burners are crap (I know this from experience, I have replaced many)

Their computers aren't all that great.

Their Printers have gone to hell, Use nothing but cheap junk parts, they're almost disposable.

I myself own an HP Photosmart M20 Digital Camera which quit working on me 10 days after the 60 Day warranty...

...So...yeah...

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By heat_fan1

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:41 PM

So now it should be 15 on that image instead of 16. But still nowhere near 2.

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 1:54 PM

Oh come now. You know it's doomed to fail. It only has the crappy little companies and washed up companies such as Pioneer and JVC. supporting it. Toshiba, NEC Microsoft, just to name a few that support HD-DVD. Seeing just one of those names are larger than every one of the Blu-Ray supporters added together.

Yeah, I minimized it to much, it's a few more than 2, but still has NOTHING.

http://www.marketing-see...content/article3406.php

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 11:14 AM

Although I believe HD-DVD will win in the end, I will have to disagree with your points here--JVC and Pioneer may have made some "crappy" products, but they are far from being "crappy" companies.

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By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:43 PM

Yeah, you tell 'em, good gawd-y miss lawdy and newest member of Mensa. You tell 'em about those washed-up companies like JVC, which in fact is owned by a "crappy little, washed-up company" called Panasonic. Next.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 11:05 PM

Again you need to look some info up a little, you are looking more and more like an a** every post you make. You have no understanding about anything other that how your a** hurts are your you sleep with your little friends.

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By maniakmx3

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 1:55 PM

"It only have the crappy little companies supporting it"

Sony?? (Still the #1 Console maker in the world)
Apple??
Dell?? (The Largest computer manufacturer on the planet)
LG (One of the largest Cell phone/Chip makers on the Planet
IBM Lenovo (The largest server/chip maker on the planet)
Pioneer (The Most popular in the CD/DVD Player Market)
Panasonic?? (makes the toughest notebooks on the planet)
Phillips??
Hitachi???
Mitsubishi???
Samsung??
Disney???
TDK!?

I'm sorry..this are not crappy little companies...

Microsoft is by far the largest of the HD-DVD Supporters.

Panasonic Bests Toshiba BY FAR

NEC??? Eh...I thought they went out of business honestly.

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By VikingBlade

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 10:48 AM

By the way, IBM Lenovo is not the largest server/chip maker on the planet.

Now the original IBM on the other hand, maybe.

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 3, 2005 - 10:21 AM

Dell has not voiced its opinion on this matter in quite some time, so they might be easily swayed.

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 2:08 PM

BTW Toshiba is the #1 DVD Player maker and Pioneer is junk. Sony Is not the #1 Console maker, MS took that from them.

EDIT: Oh yeah and the second largest company Intel is on the HD-DVD side.

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By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:46 PM

"Sony Is not the #1 Console maker, MS took that from them."

I'm with you, pal. Why read and research the facts when you more easily can just make up your own that have no relation to reality?

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Dec 5, 2005 - 11:17 AM

Sadley, dvdj is right on this one--Sony still has higher profits from video game console sales than Microsoft. However one might argue that more games are written for MS Windows...but that's really an impossible comparison as they also work on a Sony VAIO PC. Again for the record I will not buy a PS3...

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By dvdj

posted Dec 7, 2005 - 2:38 PM

Sadly? You are sad when someone is right? Now, THAT is sad.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 11:05 PM

Go look on gamefaq's

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:12 PM

If you think M$ has taken the Game console from Sony your an idiot, Sony just broke the 100Million Mark for the PS2 8 days AFTER the X360 Launch.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:15 PM

Yeah, people had to buy new ones several times they kept breaking and they had already spent all that money on the games.

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By ogman

posted Dec 4, 2005 - 7:49 AM

You were doing so well, right up to here...

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:20 PM

Oh, Just like People having to ship back or return their X360 because they kept crashing?? lol

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:24 PM

Given there are "new release issues" with XBox 360, but the PS2 had problems that still have not been fixed. It has been what like 5 years?

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:37 PM

The XBOX has similar issues too!!
Windows XP - Almost 5 years old, Still has issues
Windows 2000 - Almost 7 years old, Still has issues

Dude... M$ isn't exactly perfect either lol

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By Jedite

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 3:20 PM

What issues? Apart from security issues which cannot be categorized as bugs given that all OSs will have security issues, how well known they are depends on the OSs popularity.

Windows XP and 2k are superb OSs. Give me 1 critical issue that you have had with these OSs please. I work with both, which are installed on over 5000 computers here at work, and we hardly have OS issues, only app and hardware issues.

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 2:51 PM

There is a difference in hardware and software. The PS2 was constructed so poorly that it would even scratch the DVD's They had to replace an untold # of the roms.

Yes, The Xbox had a power cord problem too, but that was short lived.

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 2:10 PM

"
Sony??
Apple??
Dell?? (The Largest computer manufacturer on the planet)
LG (One of the largest Cell phone/Chip makers on the Planet
IBM Lenovo (The largest server/chip maker on the planet)
Pioneer (The Most popular in the CD/DVD Player Market)
Panasonic?? (makes the toughest notebooks on the planet)
Phillips??
Hitachi???
Mitsubishi???
Samsung??
Disney???
TDK!?"

Well Let see. Sony- Getting sued by everyone right now. Apple do I even need to start on that LMAO.
Dell, Yeah they have one. I have a feeling this will change.
LG Who? They are still here? I thought they died years ago.
IBM is still swaying, you can't say they are 100% on Blu-Ray yet.
Pioneer has out lived their days, name ONE good product that they make anymore. Nothing last more than a few months and the quality is junk.
Panasonic has always made low end junk and are only stocked in low end stores such and Big/Odd Lots and Wal-Marts.
Phillips is a has-been.
Hitachi, I don't hear or see much from them any more other than a comical representation of an idea.
Mitsubishi has ALWAYS been junk and they over charge for it.
Samsung were the best for a long time, but now they don't do anything, but sell crappy phones for the most part.
Disney... LMAO Yeah ok.
TDK Um they are the worst company listed here.

EDIT: Here you go this is for your Dell.
http://arstechnica.com/n...post/20051005-5393.html

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:19 PM

Pansonic is FAR from low-end (That's why their notebooks blew away toshiba's in comparason tests)
Plus, Toshiba is jsut stupid for supporting HD-DVD when they co-devoloped the PS3.

Apple is MOST supported by Hollywood and graphics industry.

LG - open up your cell phone... So what if it's a Sanyo phone, or a Nokia...Take alook at the chip :)

Pioneer makes a quality "low-end" product (but I do agree they are crap lol)

Phillips ...well yeah I'll give you that one..

Samsung is still a great company. Have you seen their new sprint phones??

Disney, you can cut them out just because they're a kids movie company, they are one of the largest companies of the Film Industry

Mitsubishi makes screens for most of the TV's on the market.

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By dvdj

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 7:31 PM

Disney is "a kids movie company"??? Did Rip Van Winkle write this comment or what? You mean the Disney that owns ESPN and ABC and has been making adult movies as well for the past 20 years?

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:33 PM

maniakmx3,

Thanks for the debate, it was fun. :-)

Gawd21

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:38 PM

Yeah dude! we should be lawyers! :P

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 2:52 PM

Yeah, I have a friend that went back to school to become one and he is wanting me to follow. I really don't want to get into that much lol.

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 4:07 PM

Never know dude! you could become a lawyer for the MPAA or the RIAA! You can make millions!! :P HAHAHAA

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By gawd21

edited Dec 2, 2005 - 5:39 PM

Have you seen the battery life on the new Sprint phones? LOL
I have Palm Treo 650 and I don't think that it has anything from LG in it. Most chips I see are Qualcomm and Samsung not LG.

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By maniakmx3

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:44 PM

Not just that...Look a The Contributors and General Members.

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By gawd21

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 1:50 PM

BTW this is old news.

http://www.channelregist...08/01/hd_dvd_vs_blu-ray/

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By Banquo

posted Dec 2, 2005 - 12:37 PM

Who cares about fox?

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