DaveBG posted his Google Fights link to compare HD-DVD and Blu-Ray but he left out the dash in HD-DVD to tip the results his way.

If you type the formats in properly the actual results are clear.

http://www.googlefight.c...D-DVD&word2=Blu-Ray

What a loser, he has to rig a site to make Blu-Ray look better than HD-DVD.

Once again DaveBG, you are screwed

www.thedvdwars.com

The numbers don't lie

HD DVD Appears to Have Early Edge

Ya think

www.thedvdwars.com

An amazing observation!

Shipping product appears to have advantage over vaporware...

Go figure...

HD-DVD lead will evaporate overnight once Blu-Ray and PS3 comes online properly. By next year it will all be over, and HD-DVD will be the next Betamax...

True

funny that you mention betamax and ps3 in the same paragraph.

I think you and many others are giving way to much credit to the effect PS3 will have on bluray sales.

While it will impact it some, I don't think it will have any more of an impact than the HD-DVD add on will for 360. I'd maybe give a slight edge to bluray due to PS3, but HD-DVD already has a significant edge right now, so it only pulls bluray slightly closer.

i dissagree... if anything it will e more like blu-ray as the next betamaxx, and the ps3 like the saga dreamcast.

Percentage wise, yes HD-DVD has quite a lead, but looking at the numbers which is important, HD-DVD player sales account for less than 8% of the initial US PS3 launch allocation. (the latest numbers from August 2006, the were 27,000 HD-DVD players sold)

Overnight on Nov 17th, there will be 15 times more Blu-Ray players out there than HD-DVD players. Granted only a subset of those owners will be buying moves, but how many, that is the big question. If it's 50%, then HD-DVD is dead in the water.

Dearest:

plague201
GS5
bobthegoat2001
Joey Deacon

Guys.... here's an English lesson on the correct usage of "Your" and "You're":

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/your.html

Please take the test after you're done:

http://www.english-zone.com/verbs/your1.html

Enjoy.

Also see http://www.youre.co.uk/

If I card about my systax Id use a spll checkr.

I live in Europe (Norway) and will buy an xbox hd-dvd for my sku come this november.

I am not going to spend a lot of money buying 2-gen dvd other than the $200 xbox hd-dvd. Using a lot of money; e.g. get blu-ray (more expensive) is just crazy when you can get hd-dvd for much less.

In a few years from now when we have a clear winner, then I think it would be safe to spend a little more getting a more advanced 2-gen dvd with recording etc.

I think hd-dvd will winn because of the lower price and uncertainty about Sony (ps3). I think most people in Europe will listen to the experts saying: Don't be a first adopter, wait a year or two or get a low-priced hd-dvd (if ps3 had been for sale in Europe then blu-ray could have been a choice)

Blu-ray clearly has a larger storage capability and a little better spec, but who cares when you have to spend about twice as much? I don't agree that the difference of spec and storage justify double price!!!

My bet is that HD-DVD will win big time!!!

PS3 is just as cheap as XBox360 with HD-DVD, and better spec. The basic unit has a 20GB harddrive,for starters, which the basic XBox360 does not.

Not for someone that already owns a 360.

Keep in mind that there are already over 5 million 360 owners. For those 5 million, HD-DVD add-on is the cheapest High Def solution.

While we may have spent more to get there in the long run, we've also been gaming for a year!

Well it seems to me judging from the comments i read that most people consider the PS3 as a cheap alternative to watching blu-ray movies over a powerful gaming machine... I thought the Playstations were supposed to be about pure gaming? I guess not anymore and maybe that's one more reason the majority of game developers put their buck on the 360.

I'm a 360 owner myself and I can tell you this: I still don't have an HDTV set, and I probably won't be able to afford one for another year. I'm definitely not rich. But I'm definitely considering the HD-DVD format just because of the backwards compatibility. I may not be able to afford the add on yet either, but when I can I'll be prepared for it.

In my opinion HD-DVD was built "smart" and that's good enough for me.

If you've got a HD TV and an upsampling progressive scan DVD player you are already seeing the best picture that is going to be available for a long time.

Some new content is coming out in native HD but almost all of the old movies being re-released in HD are just upsamples of the old DVD.

In some ways your right. I have the setup your talking about, and I can say its nearly comparable to the HD stuff at best buy. However, even though older stuff is upscaled, I know that the newer stuff is being made with HD cameras, so there is a difference.

I don't doubt it at all. They could go back to the original films and get true high resolution versions, but most of the time they probably just cheap out and use the DVD releases. The ultimate example would be the new remastered Star Wars trilogy, which it turns out is actually taken from the Laserdisc version of the movie. Lucas claims that original film stock no longer exists. Like I believe that...

That's not really true.

2 reasons.

1. Film has a higher quality and can be converted to HD-DVD
2. A lot of more recent movies are shot in HD or a format that has a higher resolution, so those being converted look better as well.

He didn't mean film couldn't be converted to HD but that many studios are going the cheap route and just upscaling the DVD versions of the movie and slapping them onto an HD disc at a higher price.

NEC made a dual Blu-ray HD-DVD chip. So why choose one when you can have both.

The chip NEC made is not for playing both formats on one machine. It is for use by manufacturers who want to make Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players. The chip will work for either format so NEC doesn't have to make two seperate chips. While it could be used for a dual format player more than just the chip would be required. LG had announced they were going to make one but they soon backed out.

Your right, LG and Pioneer did back out. It all has to do with Sony’s Blue-ray license that prohibits hybrids with HD-DVD. Samsung is still in the running I think. But eventually a company will step up and manufacture a Blue-ray / HD-DVD Hybrid.

if blu-ray really wants to win this then why don't they just release the star-wars trilogy on it. ( BTW if Fox is with HD-DVD and not blue-ray then you have mty permission to flame me to death :)

Consoles will drive next gen formats..

http://www.highdefdigest...nsoles,_Not_Formats/303

Only one console has the hardware as standard, in every model, including the basic...

Only one console has an HD drive that will be used for movies by EVERYONE who buys one. That would be the 360.

5 million PS3's with Blu-Ray, where some people will use it (infact, majority, as if they can afford PS3, they will in all likelyhood be also buying Blu-Ray movies), or a few thousand Xbox360 HD-DVD owners...

You keep spouting that 5 million figure but you have failed to give any sources for this claim. Pulling figures out of thin air does not a good argument make. Same goes for your HD-DVD drive sales figures.

"infact, majority, as if they can afford PS3, they will in all likelyhood be also buying Blu-Ray movies"

Really? I figured they'd be buying games. Silly me.

The other has an add on. Also consoles will not drive the next gen formats. That has to be the biggest line of bull ever.

Assuming they even sell 5 million consoles. Also what makes you so sure only a few thousand Xbox 360 owners will buy HD-DVD.

This is where I think you are very wrong.

While consoles (namely PS2) may have helped drive DVD sales, there was no competing format and it was far superior than VHS.

Today, there are not only 2 formats, but a much smaller market for HD-DVD and BluRay. You NEED an HDTV in order to take advantage of either (except for HD-DVD's with dual formats (HD-DVD and DVD - those can be purchased by DVD owners who want to be able to upgrade in the future).

So, based on who can make use of it, what percentage of those people will own ANY console? And what percentage of THOSE people will actually buy movies - and even if they do, how many will they buy?

From a business perspective sales of the HD-DVD add on for 360 is much more telling than sales of PS3 consoles considering anyone buy the add on will be using it for movies.

Only because that all the HD-DVD bolt-on for Xbox360 can do..

Yes, but it means EVERY HD-DVD "bolt-on" will be used for HD-DVD movies.

We have no idea what percentage of PS3's will be used for BluRay movies, but I can say with certainty that its not 100%

What else is it supposed to do? It's an HD-DVD player. Good grief your replies are getting lamer all the time.

"That has to be the biggest line of bull ever."

That could go with everything that Mark says.

Yeah, what's your point.

Is that what the voices in your head tell you? Your still stating figures without anything to backup your statements.

Here we have sh1te biased maths.

100% of the 10% (guesstimate, will be interesting to see real figures) that buy the drive will use it, making that 10% of xbox owners. You can't use the drive without owning an xbox.

100% of PS3s have the drive, so if only 11% use it to watch movies they've got a higher usage rate.

So: your post is still wild speculation, as is mine. Your fact is a pointless and biased one.

How about play games from them, for instance...

Or are they stuck with 9GB of storage for game code, level data, music, textures and cut scenes...

My fact is not pointless.

When both the HD-DVD add on starts selling AND the PS3 starts selling, movie execs will know 2 things.

1. Every single HD-DVD add on sold will be used for movies.
2. Some unknown percentage of every PS3 sold will be used for movies.

#1 gives you a hard number. #2 is pure speculation.

Businesses prefer hard numbers over speculation.

Thats funny, current games haven't been using more than 3 Gigs. You telling me we need 9 Gigs for games already?

Not True,

M$ will release a 360 with built in HD-DVD in the spring for 599.00

I think Mark and DaveBG are shacking up together. It appears DaveBG convinced someone to register at betanews and bad mouth HD-DVD.

I would too if I was desperate to save the format for the $1000.00 outdated machine I already bought.

The Videoscape report on home movie sales shows HD-DVD outselling Blu-Ray titles by 11 to 1 in September. For the previous month is was 8 to 1. HD-DVD sales are steadily climbing and with figures like that there is no way that studios are not going to take notice. If the PS3 does not boost Blu-Ray sales dramatically it's dead as a movie format. Personally I don't think the PS3 is going to amount to a hill of beans.

I think PS3 will do well - but maybe not as well as Mark G seems to think.

I don't think it will have nearly the affect so many people seem to think on BluRay sales though. At $600, there will be a lot of people that don't have much extra cash to spend and will likely spend it on games over movies anyway.

$500

You seem to conviently forget the basic model with harddisk and Blu-Ray...

Still - I think the majority of people buying it will be buying it for games and therefore will spend any extra money on games.

HD-DVD probably gains an advantage here since many people who already own 360's and have many games already are now looking for HD movies.

IF I was buying PS3, I'd be buying games for a while, not focusing on BluRay movies.

ta hell with all this iam going back too VHS

"The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift,""

People are probably buying this to see if their hardware will blow up. Because if this HDDVD doesn't do it, nothing will.

"The format already has a best seller: Universal's "The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift,"
ohh... so it is the bestseller. here is a proof that bestseller no longer equals GOOD movie if piece of garbage like this sells well.

people, wake up and stop accepting this crap. somehow good movies are not produced anymore, at least not by holywood.

This is no better than Sony making a big deal out of double layer blu-ray for Click. Same deal, both crap movies, only difference is that the HD-DVD title is selling, while the blu-ray 1 is not.

I agree,

Hollywood is churning out some real crap. I did however get into Sin City. An almost entirely black and white movie that ropes you in and keeps you watching until the very end.

Can't wait for Sin City 2 and 3. This movie is shot completely different from anything I have ever seen, unlike a Scanner Darkly. I feel like I'm watching one of those lousy financial advisement commercials.

www.thedvdwars.com

See the facts

I want Blu-ray to win, only cause it holds more data. With media going up and up, we're gonna need it.

"I want Blu-ray to win, only cause it holds more data. With media going up and up, we're gonna need it."

For movies? Blu-Ray and HD-DVDs are mostly about the DVD replacement, not storage. The cheapest way to backup data is using a secondary hard drive--it has been that way for quite some time.

I think I'll wait and see how reliable it is before I put any of my important data on it. Having a disc that holds more doesn't mean a lot if your data is lost afterwards and Blu-Ray discs aren't the most durable things ever created.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Did anyone mention that the Xbox will do 1080p? Just FYI...

Big deal.

How many 1080p monitors are available and how many idiots have rushed to buy a non-AACS compliant monitor to watch something that is not yet available - yet alone has program material for it!?

If it was 4K compliant(look it up!) it would not matter!

Funny how the fanboys were praising the PS3 and admonishing the 360 for it's lack of 1080p support, but now that it has it suddenly it doesn't matter.

XBox360 can output 1080p, but it's upscaled 720p content... Why bother, aside from grabbing a few headlines....

PS3 is capbable of NATIVE 1080p big difference..

Yup, they ommit the 360's HD support, and completely deny that Wii is in the game too. Wii doesn't have HD, but it will be diminishing sales for the PS3.

Wrong. The 360 also has native 1080p support and there are already several 1080p games announced including Blue Dragon.

"Wii doesn't have HD, but it will be diminishing sales for the PS3."

Correct me if I'm wrong--the Wii will support 720p, will it not?

Actually, no, not since there are already some 360 games out there that are capable of 1080p...

I'm not sure, I'd have to do some research on that, but my point was about HD movie support, not the games.

In theory I don't know but Nintendo has said on numerous occasions that they will not support 720 or 1080 formats. I think 480p is as high as they intend to go.

"PS3 is capbable of NATIVE 1080p big difference.. "

Only is you have a 1080p TV. Which most people do NOT.

That will change over time, but look at percentages.

Largets percentage goes to SD TV Owners.
2nd to HDTV owners
And the smallest to HDTV owners who have sets that support 1080p.

I do remember them saying something about only supporting upto 480p. I think it was from gamespot.com or something, but I'm not positive.

it's strange,
for the past 3 months wal-mart has had about a dozen different hd-dvd movies. i thought that's the only hd format they were going to carry until last week when they brought out about 2 dozen different blu-ray movies.
i don't know what it means in the big picture, but blu-ray movies seem to be taking over at wal-mart.

Sony grabs the big boys and advertises itself better than HD-DVD, but Wal-Mart will wise up soon enough and will have more HD-DVD's than Blu-Ray (at my Wal-Mart, blu-ray movies are $8 more than HD-DVDs are--yours?)

Maybe Sony would be better off marketing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray DVD player that also allows you to play Playstation games, instead of a playstation that plays Blu-Ray DVD's. I know IF i were for some unknown reason to want a Blu-Ray player, I would rather buy a PS3 then spend 2x as much on just a DVD player that wont play games. I'm still not buying anything until there is a dual format player though. It will happen, you cant make the public buy two different types of DVD players. Its just stupid to think a dual format player wont come. That way no one will fail and everyone gets to say the other format wouldnt have survived if it where for dual format players.

"Maybe Sony would be better off marketing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray DVD player that also allows you to play Playstation games, instead of a playstation that plays Blu-Ray DVD's".

Do you know what - I never thought of that before, but I couldn't agree with you more.

Why does everyone think the PS3 is going to have so much bloody impact?

It's a console for God's sake. How many people play DVD's on their PS2? I've done it *once*, just to see if it worked.

No, if I want a DVD player, I want some frigging features. The players and prices will still decide this battle, not the consoles.

Why this lame-ass PS3 vs. 360 crap has to spill over into anything remotely related to Sony is beyond me. They exist for playing games, people. Games. They don't enlighten, inform, create, or produce. They have little to no impact on *anything*.

So why the hell does some pass-time device rate so damn high on your list of "things important" as to cause such arguments?

Their gaming devices people. Get over it.

Amen to that brother ;) I find myself wondering why so many people in these dvd conversations are so serious about their chosen format... who cares?! It's a friggin dvd format, does it really matter which one wins or if they both survive?

hey pc tool,
did you know the ps3 gets released next month?
did you know you can play blu-ray movies on it?
cool eh?
:-p

I think what PC tool is saying is that Sony is marketing the PS3 as a movie player, when its just a gaming console. It does play blu-ray movies, but thats doesnt mean it going to make people buy it for movie purposes. IMO HD-DVD will rule the movie industry, however, it makes more sence for Sony to just push their blu-ray technology into the PC realm entirely. I'd rather take 25 G's over 15 G's for BACKUP (not movies) purposes any day.

I agree! Can you imagine that once upon a time people were fighting over DVD-R and DVD+R? The non-technical public didn't even have to care because by the time DVD writers became widespread they already had DVD+-R drives. Of course, with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, they are NOT the same base format, so the same thing will probably not happen.

All these threads always turn in to "I hate M$, Intel, and $ony".

And don't get me started on Blu-Ray being compared to Betamax. Blu-Ray also has support from many companies, just like HD-DVD:
20th Century Fox, Walt Disney, Electronic Arts, Apple Computer, Sun Microsystems, Dell, LG, Samsung, Sharp, Paramount, Warner Bros, MGM, Panasonic, Pioneer, and Hitachi.

If it had been a dogs bollocks Blu-ray DVD player that incidentally played games - now then I would've been interested.

The question being, why should I...or anyone, FTM, give a s***?

"It does play blu-ray movies, but thats doesnt mean it going to make people buy it for movie purposes."

That's not the point. Whether or not they actually want the feature, anyone who buys a PS3 will have the ability to play Blu-Ray movies. Once they have that ability, how many of them do you think are then going to go out and buy an HD DVD player? The PS3 will also be the first player in either format that will end up in the hands of the masses rather than exclusively in the systems of home theater enthusiasts.

I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying people out there can fork out $500 out of no where for a PS3? Either way, I know what I'm going to buy. I will be getting the HD-DVD player for the 360 for $200 bucks instead. All in all, it will be the same price for a HD version on the 360 as with the Sony PS3. So I'm not sold on statements saying PS3 has blu-ray, when 360 will too. I'm a home theater enthusiasts, and this is my solution. I'll be buying a PS3 but I'm not going to use it for movies.

Now I know your going to comment on the USB issue. And all I can say is that I've thought about it too. For the time being everything is going flawlessly for HD-DVD, so I don't expect them to implement their ICT protection any time soon. And for $200 bucks I don't much care. When they do activate ICT I'd like to think that HD-DVD playes will be much cheaper.

"Why does everyone think the PS3 is going to have so much bloody impact?"

"It's a console for God's sake. How many people play DVD's on their PS2? I've done it *once*, just to see if it worked."

Hardly a fair comparison, as DVD's are commonplace and $30, PS3 is a VERY cheap was to get into HD movies... If DVD players were still $599, LOTS of people would be using PS2 to play DVD.

The PS3 Blu-Ray is higher spec'd that most Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players on the market today, for example True-HD, DTS-Master Audio...

You're obviously a simpleton, as it's not $200, as you have already paid money for the console..

$399 console, $200 HD-DVD, work it out...

I always assumed it was because they were virgins living in mommy and daddy's basement.
Nothing better to do with their time.

Numb nuts, read what I said before ranting.

"All in all, it will be the same price for a HD version on the 360 as with the Sony PS3"

Obviously I already have the 360, and I already stated it will be the SAME price (do some basic math). Your also assuming i have the $400 xbox360 (how conveniant for you), when I could just as well have the $300 one. Go work it out..

Nevermind, I realize your obviously retarded, I'll do it for you, thats how nice I am.

Xbox360
core - $300 + $200 (HD) = $500
premium - $400 + $200 (HD) = $600

PS3
core - $500
premium - $600

So um, yeah, same price...

On top of that add that PS3 has limited quantities, and I think its safe to say Sony is F'ed.

I do not live in the basement.

hey hey, they might be living in the attic too.

If...

You use that word a lot.

If this...if that...

Which is great and all...if you're right.

Not to mention (at least in my case) that I've been playing my 360 for the past 10 months.

So, I spend $400, get 10 months of great gaming, spend $200 and continue getting great gaming and HD movies.

For those that are buying today, maybe its a bit more of a difficult choice, but for all existing 360 owners, its a no-brainer.

Even for those buying new, they can get a 360 today with 3-4 games. They can then later buy the HD-DVD add on.

I think its more or less going to come down to movies and I like the movies on HD-DVD better than BluRay.

They can then later buy the HD-DVD add on.

Exactly...like when they actually have an HDTV.

"And don't get me started on Blu-Ray being compared to Betamax."

How about Hi-FD, MiniDisc, MD-Data, MD-View, Hi-MD, UMD-Movies, Memory Sticks and Blue-Ray (oops, I guess that hasn't failed yet).

"How many people play DVD's on their PS2?"

I do. It saves space (I'm in a dorm) and quality is about as good as a standalone player.

I'll be using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray movie player.

I think the bigger deciding factors are:

a) The price
Why would you pay 2x as much for BluRay vs HD-DVD

b) Name recognition
People know "DVD" so "HD-DVD" is the next logical step.

c) Not everyone is a console gamer, including me

If I were in front of the CEO of Sony, I'd be telling him: "Stop trying to think that your precious gaming console is going to be used for the family's movie player! Get a clue! some people do NOT play games! My mom and grandma and all the other non-techies in my family tree could give a rat's patoot about your console! They know what to do with a dedicated DVD player, HD-DVD isn't any different, you put the disk in, you hit play! Why should they now have to learn a gaming console or spend 2x as much for a HD DVD player?"

d) Sony's***ory of introducing failed formats to market

Sony's backed so many stupid proprietary formats now that you'd figure someone there would *get a clue* and start working together with the market and industry leaders instead of trying to throw their weight around and wrest a total licensing/technology monopoly on the market! We wouldn't be having this problem if Sony would have simply tried to get with everyone else and have some comprimises. Then you wouldn't have this BS dvd format war going on. When is the industry going to work together for the common goal of *providing quality and innovation for the consumer* and not try to establish a monopoly?

and finally:

e) Sony's image

Let's be frank folks, Sony's not exactly been the poster child for consumer friendliness and protection of fair use. Look at the blu-ray format and also the rootkit fiasco. People remember this before they start pulling out their pocketbooks and handing over their credit cards to cashiers.

The price is definitly the main factor. I can't see blu-ray completely losing this battle. I just see it as ahead of its time. Too pricy and unnecessary for any practical use right now. I mean they're using the second layer just on extras, not the actual movie. Either way, I think Sony should hold back on blu-ray for a few years, and make it the next best thing AFTER HD-DVD.

a) I agree.

b) Again, I do agree.

c) Okay, that's true. But mom and grandma aren't going to be interested in a dedicated standalone HD-DVD or Blu-ray player anyway - so what's really your point?

d) I know where you're coming from but that's a load of crap really. What's happened in the past doesn't determine what will happen now.

e) Again, you have a fair point. But I still think it's neither here nor there really.

a) PS3 Blu-Ray is cheaper than HD-DVD and the same price as Xbox360 with HD-DVD bolt-on

b) People know Playstation, PS3 is the next logical step..

c) and your point..

d), like CD, Floppy disks?

e)As a percentage of the general population I would guess, less than .01% of them have even heard of the Sony rootkit thing...

How do you figure PS3 is cheaper than HD-DVD? If anything it might match, but then your talking about movies, not gaming.

I wondered when Mark would show up spouting bolt on. The fact that he's conveniently avoiding is that it is actually called OPTIONAL. With the PS3 what you get is FORCED ON. Oh and it plugs into the 360 via USB, there are no bolts involved Einstein.

By the way Sony didn't invent the CD either. Philips did. Sony just backed down from their optical format (yes we almost had a CD format war) and joined Philips in supporting the CD, but it was Philips' creation. Philips let them throw in the error correction but that's all they did. It's like saying I created the automobile because I contributed the check engine light. Yes Sony did create the 3.5" floppy disk (NOT floppy disks in general) and it probably would have failed too if not for the Macintosh. IBM compatible PCs stayed with 5.25" formats for several more years at least. So we have one Sony format out of how many flops?

"On August 31, 1982, an announcement was made in Tokyo that four companies, Sony, CBS/Sony, Philips, and Polygram had jointly developed the world's first CD system"

Which part of JOINTLY do you not understand?

It's like Blu-Ray, JOINTLY developed by Sony, Philips, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG and Mitsibushi....

Philips came up with the format, Sony's support was just "bolted on".

See how annoying that is? Now why can't you concede that your arguments against the HD-DVD addon are just as retarded? Oh yeah, I forgot you conveniently don't reply to the questions you have no fanboy answer for.

The basic PS3 is the same price as the cheapest Toshiba HD-DVD ($399), but the PS3 delivers so much more. TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, HDMI 1.3, oh, and it's a state of the art games console.

Yeah, we'll see how they compare when the PS3 is actually available to try out.

Indeed, many have already written it off already, Sony can't afford for the PS3 to be a poor BD player, there is too much at stake..

Hey Marky, I noticed you quoted. Any chance we might getr your source? Or is it out of your a** again?

So the cheapest HD-DVD player is still $100 bucks cheaper?

Hey Marky, I'm curious. Whats the word on BD+, do we still need to phone home in order to watch the full resolution? Or is it another on the hold issue like ICT?

Jointly yes. But as he stated above they didn't really do that much on developing the CD. It was mostly done by Phillips.

Last time I checked the basic PS3 was $499 not $399. Also the 360 is a state of the art game console and if you actually want a HD media then you can go buy a HD-DVD. Also a lot of people wont care if its a "state of the art game console", because I hate to break it to you but not everybody in this world is a gamer. Believe it or not non gamers watch TV too!

http://www.exp-math.uni-...FSH%2F1-20%2Fh5.html%22

From a guy working at Philips on CD. Sony had much more of an influence that you seem to think...

The article as a whole is very interesting...

not annoying at all. Anything that thinks the Xbox360 drive is not a bolt-on, and is nicely integrated is deluded...

More clueless newbies. Do some research, it stops you looking like a newbie..

BD+ Does not need to phone home at all. Neither does it restict playback resolution..

Don't be stupid. What difference does it make? Is the fact that it is not built into the 360 supposed to be a bad thing? Being built in means if the drive goes bad your console is dead. With the 360 this is not a problem, the console does not rely on the addon in any way as a gaming machine. Being built in means that people are forced to pay for it whether they want a Blu-Ray player or not. Being an addon means it is an optional component and consumers have a choice. If they don't want to buy it and just want a gaming machine they save a ton of money. Are you against consumer choice? If things were switched around you'd be using these same points to attack Microsoft, saying they were forcing people to buy HD-DVD. If you say you wouldn't you're a liar. Keep on using that bolted on nonsense, but notice that you are the only person in the world that calls it that. Going by that retarded logic every device that comes out for the PS3 in the future is also bolted on. Just stop embarrasing yourself.

Being built in means if the drive goes bad your console is dead.

Ding, ding, ding, I'm not a betting man; but I think I would actually consider placing money on this being one of the top two reasons for console glitches.

Did you just use the word newbie? What are you 12 years old or something?

plague201, BD+ is another layer of DRM on top of what Blu-Ray already has that will allow them to completely disable a persons Blu-Ray player if they believe it has been tampered with, the keys were leaked (or any other reason they see fit). HD-DVD doesn't have this crap.

a) This is a factor for new buyers wanting both gaming and High Def Movies

b) Non-Factor. People know Playstation as a game console. PS3 is the next logical step if they want to stick with Sony in this gen. For a consumer looking for high def material for their new high def TV, HD-DVD makes a lot more sense. People know HD and people know DVD. What does the average person know about BluRay. Is that like a stingray?

c) I think the point is that those that could care less about console gaming aren't going to buy a console - consoles probably have much higher failure rates than a stand alone HD-DVD or BluRay player.

d) I think they are referring to beta, mini-discs, sony proprietary memory sticks..etc.

e) I think you'd be surprised that its probably more. It really doesn't matter though - they have been in the news much more lately in regards to their battery recalls.

"Which part of JOINTLY do you not understand?"

Then you were also wrong. Sony didn't make CD's, they just helped.

And second you said "like CD". You conveniently left the jointly part out to make it sound like only Sony made CD's.

"going by that retarded logic every device that comes out for the PS3 in the future is also bolted on."

And if the PS3 add-on is the size of a breeze block, that sits by the side of the console, it would be excatly that, bolted on.

I doubt there will be any add-ons that are that large.

I'm not against consumer choice, but I am when it compromises the quality or lifespan of the console. Not having HD-DVD as standard on XBox360 from the begining does exacatly that, splits the market (again, as they did it already by not havving a HDD on the core).

All of a sudden you have 3 different spec XBox360, non HDD, non HD-DVD, and HDD/HD-DVD. As a developer, you have to code for non-HDD...

Wouldn't you have to connect your player to the interent for them to update the keys?

And don't mind Marky, he just insists on being right to make up for the 99% of the time that hes wrong.

Have you ever seen what a terible DVD player the PS2 actually is? What makes you think the PS3 wont be a crappy BD player.

p.s. I already have a 360 and I will buy a PS3, but I wont use it as a Blu-Ray player. When the HD-DVD ad on comes out, I will try one out and if it sucks, I'll return it and buy a Toshiba HD-DVD.

No actual numbers in article but I have them

Blu-ray sold 6 disks
and HD DVD is almost up to 2 dozen.

3 of those must have been Tokyo Drift because they said they sold 30% of their inventory and I can't see making more then 10 copies of that piece of junk that they call a movie.

I wont disagree that its junk, but they must be doing something right to sell so well.

I would assume Tokyo drift has a meaningless plot the same as FF2 had. At least the first movie tried to have a plot and had Vin Diesel in it. The second and third were just made for car junkies to play loud and see some cool car stunts and hear the nitrous engines roar. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

I think the bigger question is why they have created a fourth American Pie movie. Although in all fairness, this one is called "The Naked Mile" and from the preview it looks like complete gratuitous nudity of sexy young girls and such. Again, its all about knowing your target market haha.

marketing.

Eye Candy, I'm all about eye candy!

I want Sony to fail, for no reason other than I dont trust or like them.

I hope the Ps3 is a hugh seller, and then needs to be recalled. I hope the games become hacked and easily copied and pirated. Nothing would make me laugh more than for Sony to become about as popular as Pc Tw@t at your dinner table.

And i am sure that you use CDs, you have Sony gadgets at home, you enjoy Sony music and movies on TV or at your friends...

People like you usually want Microsoft also to fail but every one use their products (pirated or not) and they still complain!

"I want you to fail, for no reason other than I dont trust or like you."

read that a couple times...
see how stupid you sound?

LOL, well I can't say Sony will fail, because they wont entirely. PS3 wont sell good initially, simply because they cant meet demand. As for pirated copies, I promise everyone on this site that I will inform you guys when the security has been cracked, and how, the price (if relevant), and where.

Nope.

Brutal, perhaps. But not stupid.

I'm sure everyone has CDs, they were a great new format. Thanks Philips!

... and Sony....

http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-20/h5.html

Is there a better reason to want a person or organization to fail?

Using a corporate site for a reference to good things about a corporation is not the most reliable and trusted method of supporting ones claims...and it really says nothing about the development of the media itself, just the first players and first uses.

I like MS.

They make OS's that earn me money and they helped me pay my mortgage in 8 years. MS has done nothing to make me not like them and I hope vista continues to do so.

It's honest.

But you clearly dont know me to suggest I would desire a person to fail, since this was never implied. Good luck to anyone and there abilities in this world.

My opinions about Sony are justified, honest and I still stand by them.

it's mindless.

why would you want anyone to fail?
do you believe you deserve to fail just because there's people who don't like or trust you?

You don't know him. That's wrong to put down people like that.

Just because he doesn't have the same opinions that you have doesn't give you a right to do what you said. People have a right to have an opinion. You don't need to call people names because you don't agree.

There not talking about specific people. There talking about either Blue-Ray or Comapanies, like Sony.

For example I'd want Sony to fail because everytime I've bought a Sony divice it's been higher priced than the competition (like CD players, boom boxes other divices not just the PS2) and it was crap. Sony thinks that if you buy a CD player, they can over price it because it has the Sony name on it... even though it's not as good as the Philips or other CD players.

specific people make up companies like sony.

i don't know where you're getting this overpriced crap from, but i find most sony products to be competitively priced. you ever buy an apple product?

"You don't know him. That's wrong to put down people like that."

i couldn't agree more.

it's also wrong to want people to fail. (usually stems from jealousy)

i wasn't calling him stupid, just his comment.

Primary sources aren't reliable? Since when?

"you ever buy an apple product?"
No. You mean iPod? No. It's got the least amount of features and it costs the most. I have an iAudio X5 60gb MP3 player that also plays Ogg and Flac. Best player I've seen.

I've also never bought their computers either. I build my computers. I've really never bought any computer from any company. Just built from scratch and keep upgrading when I find nessesary.

Why ask anyway?

my point was, apple is overpriced.
most sony products are comparable to similar companies products, price and quality.
phillips, samsung, pioneer, panasonic, etc...

I could claim to have invented the wheel, and point you to my website claiming it is so...would you believe it?

It is the reason people try to find independant sources to back up their claims.

Wanting a person or organization to fail and that entity actually deserving to fail are two different things. The first is a matter of opinion and emotion, the second is a matter of debate.

it's also wrong to want people to fail. (usually stems from jealousy)

Let us all hold hands and sing koombyeyah (yeah, its probably misspelled, I don't care). Is it wrong to wish for violent criminals to fail at committing their crimes, or a teacher that scars a child by calling them stupid to fail in general? That desire may stem from jealousy, but it has been my experience that wrath is a more common source. Comments that generalize, saying an action or emotion is always wrong tend to sound stupid.

it's mindless.

Perhaps not, maybe he was burned bad by the rootkit, and affected by the battery recalls.

No one even try switching those around :)

Stinks of a last ditch desperate attempt by HD-DVD camp to protect their format from the inevitable Blu-Ray massacre.

The funniest comment " Craig Kornblau pointed to the backwards compatibility of HD DVD as one of its greatest strengths." Implying that Blu-Ray is not backward compatible with DVD, which it utterly untrue. For the consumer, what does HD-DVD offer in backwards compatibility that Blu-Ray does not? NOTHING.

time will tell.

"inevitable Blu-Ray massacre."

Yep, look at those Blu-Ray sales soar!

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

Expect a total reversal of the situation by March 2007, by which time, many manufacturers will be shipping Blu-Ray hardware in quantity, and PS3 userbase will be growing day by day.

Will put a few thousand Toshiba drives into insignificance.

Yes this are the last days of hd dvd. For hd dvd it is now or never! This we see is hd dvds most finest moments.

Chill Marky Jr. No one is talking about Sony fanboy, knee pad fanatics. We are talking about the numbers. If HD-DVD is selling 3 times better, on what grounds can you say that $ony is going to massacre? What? The PS3... please.

In March, I'll be telling you "told you so"

Yeah, of course it is. The PS3 is going to change everything, everyone that buys a PS3 is going to buy Blu-Ray movies... *snicker*

Look into your crystal ball while you have it warmed up and tell me who is going to win the super bowl next year.

lol

That's not the point. If there is an installed userbase of say 5 million PS3's by next summer, and 40,000 dedicated HD-DVD players, plus another 60,000 HD-DVD bolt-ons for XBox360, which format will the movie studios that support both formats be pushing the hardest?

Who cares, it's only watched by a nation of corporate wh***s.

The rest of the world really does not care if it's the Dallas Cowboys or the Tamil Tigers...

The one that people are buying movies for. Right now Blu-Ray has WAY more studio and hardware support but HD-DVD is outselling it by a huge margin and has been steadily since the formats hit the market. Blu-Ray sales have been steadily falling. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out where the studios are going to go. I don't care how many game consoles are in people's homes.

Oh you thought I was actually interested in the super bowl. I forgot, fanboy zealots don't get sarcasm. I was simply poking fun at his future predicting abilities.

I could've sworn the Tamil Tigers were a terrorist organization...but I guess I am just a corporate wh*** that forgot to watch sports for the past 29 years.

Not to mention you don't have to be interested in something to want to bet on it.

yea its the betting on it and robbing people of their money that we are interested in. Didnt you see back to the future 2?

Neither format is backward compatible for consumers. HD DVD's advantage is backward compatibility with DVD manufacturing equipment.

It's only a huge percentage margain, actual numbers for both Blu-Ray and HD are miniscule compared to DVD sales.

This is important, as at this stage, it's still very easy for either to leap ahead in the format war. HD-DVD camp have nothing to leverage sales, Blu-Ray has PS3, almost all the studios and hardware manufacturers behind it..

Hare and Tortoise...

Irrelevant, we are comparing Blu-Ray to HD-DVD, not DVD. I'm stating sales facts, you're making future predictions based on a game console. You cannot base the future of a movie format on a childrens fable either.

Your basically assuming no one will buy the 360 add-on. I for 1 am buying it, along with the Wii. I'll wait 2 months before I buy PS3, but like ive stated before it wont be for blu-ray movies. Those nubmers you give are complete garbage. I remember before you were saying and praising that there were going to be 2 million PS3's in the US at launch, now its what? 400,000?

Terrorist Orginasation.. LOL..

Why is it everyone that has a gun, and is not American is a terrorist...

HD-DVD has a camp? Wow cool.

I just took a quick look at Circuit City's site and they are carrying three next generation dvd players, one HD-DVD and two Blu-ray. The Blu-rays cost twice as much and have fewer movie titles to choose from. A head start could turn into considerable leverage at some point.

Theres that pesky little 5 million consoles sold assumption again. By the time Sony even gets that many manufactured(at the rate their going), much less sold, HD-DVD will already be too far ahead.

Hmm thats funny because last time I checked they are releasing a very cheap add on for the Xbox 360. Guess you just "forgot" too mention that though.

Errm, it's not cheap, is pushes the price up to the same price as a PS3, which everyone b****ed about being too expensive..

So in summary,

When Xbox360 has a $200 add-on that costs in total $499/$599 it's a cheap add-on, when PS3 has it, it's WAY to expensive..

The HD-DVD addon does not count in the price of the xbox because it's optional. People who want to watch movies will buy it, those who don't will not. With the PS3 you are forced to pay for it whether you want it or not. That is why the PS3 is too expensive. They are charging people extra to sneak in their little format war trojan horse.

Didn't mean "terrorist" in that sense of the word. Unlike many people I know there is a fine if not non-existent line between terrorist and revolutionary.

Terrorism is a tactic, so those who use it are terrorists, and from what I know of the Tamil Tigers, they do qualify for that title...unless you know something I don't?

In which cause surely both Bush and Blair are also terrorists, and they install false terror in their clueless voting public to further their political careers..

Some HD-DVD's are also DVD's. So they are backwards/forwards compatible depending on what you own.

For a DVD owner, they can buy these hybrid discs and be ready when they move to HD.

"trojan"

Replace that with "rootkit".

It's a two edged sword, as because it's not standard on Xbox360, it can be used for anything other than movies.

At least the PS3 can use the Blu-Ray for games AND movies...

Yeah, a long chain of terrorist incidents spanning decades resulting in thousands of people dead across the world is "false terror" designed to "further political careers."

Get a clue.

In the US what percentage of the population have been affected directly by terrorist attacks, say Vs getting run over by a bus...

So the only real benefit is, you can buy selected movies today on HD-DVD with DVD movie on it also, at higher than DVD prices, for a HD-DVD player you may have next year, **IF** HD-DVD wins the format war, otherwise you have a DVD that you paid over the odds for...

Not really a huge benefit...

Says who? The amount of HD-DVD hardware sold is still very low, 17,000 units was the last figure I saw. the launch of PS3 will eclipse that twenty-fold overnight...

Your still conveniantly forgeting the HD-DVD addon for xbox360. I know thats the route I'm going for HD movies, and I think plenty more are too. So if your going to slander, HD-DVD include the 360 numbers too.

Even so, ask yourself this question "how many xbox360 owners are out there?" and "how many will buy this addon for HD movies?"

Don't quote me on this, but last time I saw xbox 360 had 5 million sold already. I backing HD-DVD all the way, so I don't think $200 extra is steep. So just compare 5 million xbox360s vs 500,000 PS3's. I think its pretty obvious who has the upper hand here. And its stupid to think that the bulk of the xbox360 owners aren't going to buy the add-on.

They need more than 25 gigs for games? When games don't use more than 3-4 Gigs?

Hey DaveBG,

If the numbers on www.thedvdwars.com are in favor of Blu-Ray after Christmas, I will personally buy you any ten Blu-Ray movies of your choice and a new player of your choice.

I'm serious as a heart attack. I dont give a crap about money, but I will put it where my mouth is. I can afford it.

What you have to do for me if HD-DVD is still way ahead is tell everyone here you were wrong and you are completely full of crap.

Let me know if you agree to this and I will put the money aside.

Its very simple - people understand the idea of HD-DVD better then Bluray. The name is easy to understand to the common consumer. Bluray sounds like some kind of sealife or a weekly dinner special. With the numbers this artical is showing bluray is going to quickly become the betamax tape of the optical media world - unless they get on floor and beg for a duel format player. Which from what I understand will not be happening anytime soon.

The technologically impaired would probably go with HD-DVD just because they already know the DVD.
But personally I think Sony could win the battle when the PS3 arrives.

But they might go with Bluray because is has a flashier name.

not after the steve irwin fiasco.

bluray=stingray!

Crikey!!! That's cold mate:-)LMAO

Better movies, better implementation of technology... hopefully the winner.

what better movies? so far crap only. and that goes to both formats.

That's what the general public wants though, crap. I wish it wasn't so but it is.

Are you talking about Blu_Ray's MPEG 2 decoding versus HD-DVD's superior VC-1

Most of you don't even know this about Blu-Ray, I have seen House of Flying Artifacts at CEDIA in Blu-Ray. People were laughing.

I'm not making this stuff up, that's when I decided HD-DVD was the better of the two.

Toshiba hooked me up with a demo they are not supposed to give out in HD-DVD, it's absolutely stunning with no artifacts like MPEG 2.

www.thedvdwars.com