I switched on a HD DVD last night, and the sound was all muffled. I watched the Blu-Ray version, and the sound was Crystal clear. I assume it's because they has to compress the sound, as they run out of diskspace or bandwidth on the HD DVD version.

Anyone else notice this?

Maybe you setting up your system is as smart as your BD shilling here?

Funny you 'forgot' to tell us which HD DVD movie it was supposed to have been.....couldn't you google a credible candidate for this poor sound in time?

Anyone who actually has both formats knows that it is (by far) more often than not the HD DVD movie that comes with the superior audio.

Warner dual format releases are renouned for it and so are Paramount.

Even the BD fanzine sites are having to admit it -

""Paramount continues its uneven approach to the two high-def formats, granting the Blu-ray edition a standard Dolby Digital 5.1 mix at 640kbps, and the HD DVD edition a Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 surround track at 1.5 Mbps."

http://bluray.highdefdig...om/comingtoamerica.html

- Still, carry on lying if you like.

.....or better yet, let's hear which HD DVD movie you're claiming this of so others with it can give a view.

That tends to happen when you have your head up your ass.

ROFL! You just made my day. :)

SGD, That was classic.

Stop lying.

Ok HD format sound has anyone else noticed this? I watched a blu-ray disk last night and played the sound on the TV (family was asleep so no multichannel sound) and noticed that the sound seemed to be recorded at different levels. Scenes that had spoken word would be fine then where a part with music came on you get blasted out of the room. What is the point of using the TV sound if you have to keep your finger on the remote to turn those parts down just to turn the sound up when the music stops. What a pain.

One more thing the packaging for blu-ray blows. You can never get all the sitcky crap to come off with the many seals that are used. HD has one and it comes right off.

I know some douc* bag will say its because no one will steal the HD version so if you are thinking that shut up in advance.

Sounds like 5.1 or greater sound playback, through stereo speakers. Set your player or amplifier to 2-channel sound output to solve your problem. :)

Didn't think of that thanks.

That was it thanks. I didn't even think that 5.1 would make a difference going to a 2 speaker TV.

hijos de puta

Thats real nice.

I am amazed at how any article that puts a positivie light on HD-DVD suddenly turns into blu-ray is God death to anything not Sony.

Yah these idiots are everywhere is the scary part.

http://www.dslreports.co...Maker-with-HD-DVD-85391

One of my problems with Blu-Ray is the design. It goes back to the old CD-R design where the data is recorded on a thin layer right on top of the disc waiting to be scratched. Making the entire disc unreadable. DVD-R was a huge improvement in that the data layer was sandwiched between two plastic layers, making it much better protected. Scratching the top of a DVD-R will not hurt it. HD-DVD is the same way, but Blu-Ray goes right back to putting the data layer on the outside, in this case on the bottom. Oh yeah, they put a "special coating" on it to protect it. Yeah I'll trust my data to that.

What a bunch of nonsense you wrote there. Really. Your fanatism it's so childish. CD-Rs are known to be way more robust than any DVD+-R out there.
Try scratching CD-Rs and then do the same to a DVD+-R and you will see on which media the drives will be able to recover data faster and properly while reading... The DVD ones are surely getting the unreadable/data-lost mark...

aredo: blah blah blah yada yada yada

and you calling someone childish, LOL now go back to the playground

You must crazy he is right. If you have a minor scratch on the top of any CD format the data layer will tear right off the disk. He is right about this part of the media. And Blu-ray does have its layer very close to the surface. I have not scractched a disk to judge what type of damage can be done I didn't want to risk throughing money away.

One major problem with CD-R is using acid markers can and will destroy the data layer on the disk making in unreadable. External atmosphere conditions or pollution has also caused the layers to change colors which has also made the disks unreadable.

Yeah, sure.. then everyone must be crazy because seriously scratched CD-R discs are still fully playable with no data loss on the majority of CD and DVD players nowadays.

Pathetic, indeed. And you should be the adult here..

No, what is childish are your insults. You can't discuss something without resorting to personal attacks?

On a CD-R the data layer consists of a thin sheet of reflective material and organic dye, and is on the top of the disc. It is easily damaged and peeled off. With a DVD-R this is not an issue because the data layer is embedded between two layers of plastic.

You are wrong. First it depends on the location of the scratch. If the scratch is on the bottom, in the plastic itself the disc will usually have read errors. It does not matter whether it's a DVD or CD, and in either case the scratches can often be polished out. The data layer is not affected in this case. If a CD-R is scratched on the top however, the disc is destroyed. A DVD-R can be scratched on top and not be affected at all because neither the data layer or the readable side of the disc is affected. It is quite common knowledge that a DVD-/+R disc is more durable than a CD-R. It's not even up for debate. Try arguing using facts in the future, rather than your emotions.

Emotions ? Anyone can try by him/herself that scratches on CD-Rs, either top or bottom won't make a disc useless at all.
I had to use severely bottom scratched CD-Rs many times in different places and I could read them with no issue and no read errors even on cheap and old CD readers and writers.

Read around the 'net if you wish.. they will just tell you that if CD-Rs are of good quality and use good and durable molecules/formulas they will resist scratches and be readable (the scratches won't alter the data, they won't be able to crack the material so easily as it could happend on poor cheap plastics/disc brands).

->
http://www.warehousephot...manent_is_your_CD-R.htm

2: The Dyes used in the recording layer are light sensitive and will react to ambient light and fade over time. Quality CD-R’s use a dye that resists fading. To be safe, store them in the dark.

3: Humidly may seep through a poor lacquer coating. Quality CD-R’s are well-sealed and resist seepage from markers and moister. To make them last, store in low humidly and use water based markers and write on the center core.

4: A scratch on the base side can be repaired, but a scratch on the lacquer side renders the CD useless. Quality CD-R’s have a thick protective coating to resist scratches. Archiving reports vary by manufacture, but 70 years would be low for a quality CD-R with the norm being 100 years. Some manufacturers of Gold CD-R’s claim 100-200 years!

You generally get what you pay for. Don’t put those precious images on a CD-R that costs just a few nickels and dimes.

Better hurry aredo. Your missing Blues Clues!

Yeah, emotions. As in getting worked up and calling people names instead of discussing something like a mature adult.

FACT: CD-R places the data on the outer layer of the disc. I don't care if some of them do have a hard coating, those cost more and most of them don't have it. Even the ones that do are not as durable as a DVD-R. As for your claim about scratching the top and bottom of a CD-R not hurting them, that is nonsense.

Scratch the top where the label is genius and you find that the disk will have unplayable areas. That very thin top layer is the recorded layer. Larger scratches may be ok on the side that faces down and still be playable due to the large size of the data burned onto the disk. DVD on the other hand the data is much smaller and therfore damaged to the point of being unplayable maybe you just can't understand that.

You really don't get it, you are wrong the a scratch on the top of a disk will destroy that part of the disk since the actual media is gone. Maybe someday you will be able to admit when you are wrong. Until then I am done here.

The only real fact is that what you care and don't care about just doesn't matter. Manufacturers processes use hard coating formulas of some kind nowadays, even the cheaper ones. The most expensive CD-Rs (like the black carbon for audio) are still very cheap products nowadays. Your point is moot.

Has Betanews turned into a kindergarten recently.. I wonder.. ?

That is what I was wondering...

Poor Dave, now he's using CD-Rs to try and defend Blu-Ray. How desperate can you get? I have some Sony and Maxell CD-R right here and I can scratch the top very easily. That "hard coating" does not stop them from being scratched and ruined". It also starts to peel sometimes. Just stop, hang your head in shame, and go away.

You're the one who's trying to turn it into a kindergarten with your childish insults and other ludicrous nonsense.
Makes one think you're actually still visiting kindergarten yourself.

No matter how you try to spin it, BluRay is using the same fallacy as CD-R, and with the data tracks much smaller than on CD-R, BluRay is even much more susceptible to damage.

No way a sony cd you must be mistaken. :)

You know that Blu-Ray has a very effective Anti-scratch coating.

HD DVD has not..

If any HD format is likely to be damaged to scratching, it's HD DVD.

SGD,

If you noticed, I don't even bother anymore,

HD-DVD doesn't need the coating, the data layer is sandwiched between two layers of plastic just like with DVD. Blu-Ray had to have the coating because they are made like CD-Rs with the data layer on the outside where it can be scrated off. In fact Blu-Ray originally was meant to have caddies it was so fragile. Even with the coating HD-DVD is more durable. Any other false BS you would like to spew while your here?

Yeah I did and I think I'll be doing the same since he isn't worth it.

It amazes me how some people are so blind to anything except their love but I guess that what defines a fanboy.

While Blu-Ray adds more restrictions, HD DVD adds more features.

That's pretty much the way it goes yah.

Correct, yet somehow the Sony camp try to turn this into a negative for HD-DVD. It's really amusing to watch them thrash about. :)

What restrictions would those be?

If anything HD-DVD is far more restricted, and it's restricted to a single exclusive movie studio!!!

Greetings from Miami. I just saw the cool news, I'll have to check it out when it becomes available.

p.s. I'm done replying to BG's posts. You won't hear another word from me regarding anything he has to say.

i aint buying sh!t until this bullsh!t is over and as for me, esta mierda de guerra que me pele la verga que tengo y que le meto por el culo a todos los sony fans

The first format that allows me to transcode a copy of movies to another format (avi/wmv/mp4) for use on a different device or under linux without restrictive DRM gets my vote.

Until then, I ain't buyin squat.

You'll never be buying anything then because they are never going to freely allow people to make copies of movies.

Good observation ;)

Hahahahahahaha

I'd love to live in your world of sugar clouds and honey rivers.

Actually, let me rephrase that...

if I'm not mistaken, HD-DVD has managed copy features, doesn't it?

The point I'm making is that DRM is pointless, it only treats the consumer like a thief.

Why is it ok to rip your audio cds to an iPod, or to mp3 format on your computer, or to a device like the Samsung Yepp PMC (I love it, great little device), yet oh no, you can't rip a dvd to WMV format and watch it on that?

I'll tell you why:
Encryption and the DMCA. Both tools of the industry to attempt to sell you the same content more than once. It's not right.

Yes.

'Managed copy' is mandatory with HD DVD.

'Managed copy' is only 'optional' under the BD spec requirements
(it's the same as with SD DVD playback, surprise surprise......that's one way to kill off the old format, huh?).

.....and we can clearly see with BD+ & all the rest they're not going to go near it at all.

Point taken. That's not quite like having zero copy protection at all which won't happen but at least it's fair for consumers. Much better than the draconian DRM Sony and Fox are pushing.

"The point I'm making is that DRM is pointless, it only treats the consumer like a thief."

- Quite so.

The problem is that it's not just a case of that, it also means endless compatability problems, failures and the need to endlessly update and always in the hope that the new update works properly.

You'll also find that the updates with BD are only planned to be free for so long, then you have to pay.
They kept this one very quiet.....

Check this out -

"BD-MV playback at HD quality has very strict copy protection integrated and managed by the Advanced
Access Content System License Administrator (AACS LA), and software manufacturers are required to
include the AACS key management in the play back software.
These AACS play back keys are only valid for a predefined and limited period of time. Customers
generally have to buy new AACS keys every 15 months.

With the Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB the customer can playback BD movies produced until April 2009.
To play back movies produced after April 2009, the customer has to purchase a renewal of the key."

link to pdf press release from plextor: http://www.plextor.be/pr...sheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf

HD-DVD DRM disease against customers. Just another way to rip people off.
Don't support this lame tactics to get money from you bank accounts and credit cards... don't waste money on added services because if these DRM things ever get successful there will be nothing else and everything will cost more and will be a renting only thing, keep paying to use what you already bought.. is that what people could ever want ?

"HD-DVD DRM disease against customers."

- You'll find that HD DVD doesn't have the same DRM as BD.
HD DVD got cracked some time ago.
It isn't the threat BD (with BD+) might be.

As for downloadable content?
Stand like a latterday King Canute all you like but it's coming whether you like it or not.

Hey Dave, try picking a name and sticking with it. Posting under multiple user names in an attempt to back up your fanboy rants doesn't help you really, and it's not hard to spot your posts. Besides you gave yourself away below when you called the DVD-Forum Toshiba and Microsoft twice under two different names.

I don't use multiple accounts here, I post with my nickname "aredo", period. You are so confused by the simple fact that there are more people than the one you are referring to that might agree on something ?
Two different names what ? So whoever writes "Toshiba,Microsoft,DVD-Forum" is the same person for you ? Are you kidding or what ? Are you really serious ? How old are you, 5 ?

BD+ will "get cracked" as well.. Sony needs people to be able to make copies just like they need hacked firmwares/modchips .. or do you really believe that "hackers" like muslix64 and others came up with an hack for AACS by themselves because they are poor little kids,uh ?
It's called marketing... it's all a marketing trick.. just like the PSP hack .. in a single week the code have been descrambled and hacked.. yeah.. sure... and by a bunch of little hacker brats, maybe,uh?

Nice try, but that's not what you posted:

"It's a standard owned and wanted by DVD-Forum, Toshiba and Microsoft"

"Seriously, why do people Trust Microsoft and Toshiba alliance? (Sorry HD-DVD alliance)"

Microsoft and Toshiba are not the DVD-Forum, they are just two of it's hundreds of members. If you aren't Dave your his little sock puppet so it doesn't matter. I'll let you get back to your shilling, fanboy.

So let me get this straight, you think Sony is the one releasing the hacks for their DRM? Right. They are spending millions of dollars on copy protection systems only to turn around and give away cracks. I knew you were a fanboy, but I didn't know you were completely retarded.

"Sony needs people to be able to make copies". LMAO!

Good eye my young apprentice. From this day forth you will be known as Darth..........Latz.

At least I'm not the only one who noticed it.

I'm not your beloved friend at all. Insulting me simply shows how childish you are. Calling me "fanboy" doesn't make you an adult, you know.
Microsoft and Toshiba are the ones behind HD-DVD, the DVD-Forum is an organization, Toshiba is the main HD-DVD hardware producer, Microsoft is the main adopter and supporter of HD-DVD standard, hence the HD-DVD XBox360 drive...
These are facts. Your whining won't change these facts. If then you think that Microsoft and Toshiba are poor things wanting to help other poor things and to give peace and prosperity to the human kind and so on, yep the childish marketing propaganda .. then keep thinking that way--although that's your own fantasy world and not the real one nor the truth.

Insulting me won't give you any upper hand, won't make you win anything, it will just keep showing how childish you are.
And so you think that little kids "hackers" 12-18 years old and such have created and are creating "hacked/cracked" PSP firmware, PS2 modchips, PS3 hacks and so on.. uh ?
Yeah, sure... keep living in your fantasy world, things are way different in the real one.

you both get my vote for a stfu stamp, these posts are for conversing about the topic at hand, not for b****ing at each other.

just my two cents.

"I'm not your beloved friend at all"

You've got that right. I never said you were Dave. If you don't want to be insulted quit trolling in HD-DVD threads and shilling for Sony. It's getting really old. I also never said that Toshiba and Microsoft were poor things trying to help humanity. I love how you keep making up lies though and pretending other people said them. No one else here will see through that at all, no sir.

No one said the people who cracked it were 12 years old. Not one single person said that. You are the strawman king though, I'll give you that. Once again though, your claim that Sony is the one cracking their own DRM is beyond stupid. Way beyond, there are no words for how dumb that is.

You must be new to the internets.

So, let me get this straight in your delusional world Sony allowed modchips. Reality is if sony finds out you modded your box it voids the warranty and you have to pay the full repairs and can be prosecuted as well.

You want to oblige me to shut up in this pathetic and childish way ? Are you trying to threat me or what ?
I should quit expressing my opinion and pointing out facts that you and other HD-DVD fanatics don't want people to grasp about how signals theory/video and audio coding really works for what? To please your distorted point of view or your employer, I wonder... ?
Are you getting paid to go around telling that 30GB would be better than 50GB and higher bitrates don't matter and other nonsense like that ?

You want to oblige me to shut up in this pathetic and childish way ?

You want to oblige and blow me?

What's wrong, getting upset? To be honest I don't give a rats behind about either format, I just hate Sony fanboys and their constant shilling and whining. It's really annoying. Not to mention all the blatant FUD and lies they post. I'm not saying 30GB is better than 50GB, I'm saying in the case of a movie format paying more money and being tied to Sony's BD+ DRM for the extra space, which is not even needed, 50GB is not better either.

Let people judge what is needed and what is not. There are no BD+ discs on the market yet, only AACS is used on both formats. 50GB is surely needed for movies in order to obtain the highest allowed bitrate even on longer movies.

BD+ will be enabled on all future movies, they announced it a short time back. It was posted right here.

"I should quit expressing my opinion and pointing out facts"

I stopped reading at facts. It was at that word that the BS started. All you Sony fanboys have made it very clear that you don't deal in facts.

Yah that is why they can fit it on a 30GB disc and it will look just as good or better than the 50GB disc. I thought you "pointed out facts." Looks like to me you like to spout BS just like all the other Sony Cheerleaders.

"all" future movies since when ? Every manufacturer switching to BD+ .. no one using AACS anymore .. ? That's beyond speculation that's just your fantasy.
And anyway BD+ hacks will "pop up" just like it happened with AACS .. they need to sell BD writers and recordable media as much as there was need to sell DVD+-R media so that CSS crack "appeared" ...

On a 30GB disc you will never ever have the chance to have the same movie encoded with the same codec by the same studio look the same or better than the version encoded for a 50GB disc. You can whine as much as you want, and insulting me won't change signals theory nor video nor audio coding.
On 30GB the streams must have a lower bitrate due to the lack of available space, it's just that simple, it's basic logic to grasp here, you don't need to be a developer.

You still fail to explain that if this is indeed so why have the reviews said that the video is the same on both and sound tends to be better on HD.

You can throw your numbers all you want, but I have seen both formats and Blo-Ray did not look a single bit better. In fact in some cases HD-DVD looked better.

You perception doesn't matter. It's that simple. The fact that you can't notice any difference and you prefer lower bitrate content means nothing. Your point of view won't change reality nor theory nor the way things really work and are designed for.

Most reviewers get paid and obviously Microsoft loves to throw in way more bucks than anyone else. It's going to be very hard for Microsoft to accept that people have already chosen Blu-Ray as the official HD format and that they will need a Blu-Ray drive for the XBox360 ...

Oh and your perception does matter? What a hypocrite you are.

You keep trying to speak for everyone, well I'm sorry to break it to you but your opinion is not a fact. People have chosen HD-DVD also, and people have chosen neither. I can throw around meaningless stuff like that also. Keep trying though, but try harder. Your desperation is showing.

BD+ sits on top of AACS genius, and yes it was posted right here a short time back. If you're going to try and argue about something do try and make sure you have some clue as to what you are talking about.

Oh and now you are going back to that insane "Sony cracked CSS themselves theory". I'm really sorry you ate so much lead paint when you were little. We know who cracked it and it wasn't Sony. It was a guy named Jon Johansen. Companies aren't going to allow their movies and music to be pirated so they can sell CD-Writers, and they wouldn't spend millions on copy protection just to crack it themselves. I'm sure you'd do that if you were running a company, but then you'd be out of business really quickly.

LMAO!!! Aredo I find it laughable how well you fit in with your fellow Sony cheerleaders. You simply can not face that truth. The fact of the matter is Blo-Ray does not look any better than HD-DVD. You obviously have never seen either one or you would know this.

ROFL!!!! I retract my above statement. You are even more delusional than your fellow Sony Cheerleaders. So now MS is paying the reviewers off are they? Talk about not being able to accept the truth ROFL!!!

Also MS only supports HD-DVD. It is Toshiba that actually made the format.

"If you're going to try and argue about something do try and make sure you have some clue as to what you are talking about."

Your asking too much for a Sony Fanboy.

siryak, this risible oaf obviously doesn't even know plenty of the current BD releases are on 25gb discs.

You really are clueless as MS really doesn't care if any HD format wins so they are not about to pay anyone to review one better than the other. Your love of SOny and evident hate of Microsoft is a joke. MS has nothing to the creation of either format so get over it already. In fact if it weren't for MS I bet you wouldn't have a pc to post your hate with.

It amazes how you attack everybody that has anything bad to say about blu-ray or anything Sony. Sony like all companies is not the best at everything and that is a fact. I would be more for blu-ray if they didn't force so much DRM crap on you. They didn't have to do it they just did.

How can you be so blind that blu-ray has tons of ways to screw the public with locking disks now the java crap what is next? I had a couple of laptop batteries be recalled because of the possibility of it exploding and previous to that I had a rootkit that I didn't know was there. What did they steal off my PC is anyones guess. The only way you can be so damn blind is being a paid by sonly to sit on sites and spew this garbage that you are provably wrong on. Yet the next step is calling people stupid or childish. You will never admit you are wrong even when we prove it so I'm done you with you. Case closed.

The most important thing is so far the vast majority has chosen none of the above formats so both could and just may lose the war.

Jon Johansen was a marketing trick. His father works in the IT industry..he became and employee to release the hack/crack. It's just that obvious.
Or you think that "Muslix64" is another 12-18 years old hacker genius, uh ?
And PSP modified/hacked firmware popping up like candies with added functionalities like a PS1 emulator and so on have been coded by teenagers at the speed of light since any new firmware gets hacked in a few days or weeks ?

Wake up people, don't believe in false marketing myths, it's really pathetic to get fooled like this. Get a clue !

So Sony spends all this extra money on copyright protection and then cracks it themselves?

Explain their rootkit that there was no crack for and costing Sony quite a bit of money. This makes no sense, as it is not profitable.

"Most people I don't think even know what a rootkit is so why should they care"

Sony put this on well before testing it and then when it was brought to their attention they made it seem like it was no big deal.

By the way do you see black helicopters?

just curious...

Why then does Sony continue to release updates on the psp tp prevent homebrewing?

Another marketing ploy?

Seriousily, did you get brainwashed?

True.

More functionality for HD DVD, cant be bad.

I see even Panasonic (and Pioneer?) are thinking twice about BD.....

No new Blu-ray player planned by Panasonic

Panasonic has confirmed that it will not up replacing its DMP-BD10a Blu-ray player with a new model this year. The decision could be seen as a tacit admission that interest in dedicated BD decks is limited, with the lion’s share of sales going to the PlayStation 3. Instead, Panasonic will be concentrating on its Viera TV ranges and Lumix cameras as core product lines, alongside a renewed emphasis on HD camcorders."

http://avzombie.com/blog...er-planned-by-panasonic/

So much for all that amazing 'CE support' BD was supposed to have
(the Sony is actually a rebadged Pioneer and the Philips is a rebadged Samsung).

Also, looking at the updated description for the new Pioneer BDP-LX70, there was originally a sentence at the bottom saying there would soon be a replacement model -

"Availability
The BDP-LX70 will be commercially available in June. In the near future, Pioneer is planning to introduce a HD Audio Bitstream output player to replace this model."

This has now also been removed.
This new BDP-LX70 will also never support BD-J 1.1/2.0 (along with the Samsung BD-P1200 and the Sony S300).
http://www.pioneer.co.uk...n/products/bdplx70.html

The retreat into just being yet another failed Sony proprietary format (this time on the PS3) is gathering pace.

(.....and note that the PS3 is STILL awaiting explicit & official confirmation for the BD-J 1.1/2.0 upgrade.)

BD-J .. using Java to rip customers off just like on HD-DVD ?
These standards to oblige users to pay more for "added stuff" = encrypted content that you have to keep paying to watch and if your key expires or gets lost they will keep asking more and more money...
Then say no to this rip off ! Don't support this scam, don't buy any added content, don't allow producers to rip you off !

Would you stop being a spazz, no one is forcing you or anyone else to pay for this extra content. The key word here is extra, do you have a dictionary? Look it up. Yeah giving people more content choices is really horrible, because they have to pay for them! gasp! Everything should be free. How dare they ask people to pay for their products!

It's the new tactics Latz, the BD shills can't debate the drawbacks of their beloved system so now they're all to be damned as being as bad as each other
(this one only kinda works provided you know just about absolutely nothing about either of them).

Which drawbacks ? 50GB it's 50GB. Just like 30GB it's only 30GB.
That's the whole point. You can try to debate as much as you want but you can't change the truth,it's a fact. HD-DVD discs have less capacity than the Blu-Ray ones. If that's a drawback for you HD-DVD fanatics.. then a 1000GB HDU it's not worth buying for you I bet, you tell people to stick with their 320GB and 500GB units forever... uh?

I wonder.. when the lame failure that the CD-R/RW 1.2GB standard was released on the market, were you promoting it against DVD+-R/RW discs telling that it was cheaper and such,perhaps ?

No, the keywords here are just "scam", "customer rip off", "shame". That's what the marketing tactics against customers really are. The extra contents thing is just a way to rip customers off.

He didn't say size was one of the drawbacks, but that's a nice strawman argument there, fanboy. Next you're going to tell us that Blu-Ray doesn't have any drawbacks. All hail Sony!

How are they ripping people off when buying the extra content is OPTIONAL? Nobody has to buy it if they don't want it or if they think it costs too much. The extra content thing is just that, extra content. Would you rather they put did not make it available, or perhaps you'd prefer if they forced everyone to pay extra for it. Again, stop being stupid. If Sony were doing this with Blu-Ray you'd be wetting your pants about how great it was.

Latz is my new hero.

Actually here you demonstrated that you can't heav read properly. You start insulting others without even reading, that's really childish. Read my posts, I don't want BD-J extensions either since their only purpose is to rip customers off. They are going to use Java on Blu-Ray to force people to buy extra contents(decrypt them by paying more).
If you accept this scam then soon they will oblige you to keep paying just to watch the movie, it will be worse than software licenses, is this what customers could want ? Because it will happen if people, the customers don't send a clear message to producers.

No they aren't going to force anyone to buy anything. This is the concept that you can't seem to understand. No one can FORCE you to buy something. Just keep whining about it though.

Its because he has deep problems with MS, if there is a heated MS discussion he whines about it, he complained that MS should follow what the EU tells them, he also rarely makes any sense.

And maybe you are a Microsoft lover being an employee of it, uh ?

and maybe your a howard stringer lover, being his bi*ch, uh ?

Uh,uh.. I was right then ? You and others here, spreading pure ignorance by telling that higher bitrates don't matter, are either Microsoft, Toshiba or DVD-Forum employees or affiliated with any of them ?
By judging from your childish pathetic insults I'd say that yes you are...

You really need to stop crying about it.

LMFAO.

The 'a plague on both your houses!' routine lasted about 2 posts and now here we are, another pathetic BD shill wailing away about their deranged notions of "love" & "hate" for CE corporations.

What a ludicrous joke.

You need help, shill.

"You and others here, spreading pure ignorance by telling that higher bitrates don't matter"

That's funny, I haven't seen any post anywhere of anyone claiming that higher bitrates don't matter. *sigh* Looks like we have another idiot that isn't capable of making a signal post without twisting facts and spouting random BS.

Then they will use it to lock disks to machines and then the public is really screwed.

Dave you really are clueless, but keep trying.

FUnny how the smaller 30 gig disks look just as good if no better than the 50 gig disks you are talking about. Then with the aid of J they will make you buy the extra HD stuff on the blo-ray disk that I could really care less about so the advantage is lost in the extras that I could care less about anyway.

You and the others here spreading false info telling that less space=higher quality are the ones that don't have a clue, you really don't know what you are talking about.
And as much as you'd want everyone to be your lover Dave, I am not.

Then you can't read properly. It's a pathetic tactic to negate what you and others wrote here. Your fanatic claiming that "30GB is more than enough" , "beyond 30GB quality doesn't increase" and so on it's what has been said here and it's just nonsense.
You are trying to twist facts, you are trying to negate the nonsense that has been wrote by fanatics like you here. A really pathetic attempt. Whoever can read english will see this.

The point is that you miss OVER AND OVER, is the extra space on a blu-ray dvd has SHOWN NO superiority over hd-dvd and the sound on hd has been seen as the better one.

They have these 50 gb disks but what are they using the space for as the quality is the same and in the past several blu-ray disks had horrible quality because of the encoding used, hows do you explain the extra space on those? Why was the quality worse if they have more space?

HD-DVD is going to boost capacity up to 51GB soon. So I guess that means Blo-Ray will be inferior then. Either way HD-DVD in most cases looks as good or better than Blo-Ray.

Lol. They are right when they say 30GB is enough and anything beyond it will show no quality increase. The movies show it aredo. Like I said above you can throw your numbers all you want, but I have seen both and there is 0 improvement. Not even the slightest little bit.

The first Blu-Ray discs were 25GB MPEG-2 720p or 1080i .. so what's your point ?
Watch a movie like Casinò Royale H.264 MPEG-4 AVC 1080p that has an average of over 30Mbps bitrate and you will see the difference.

Compare it to what? Casino Royale isn't even out on HD-DVD. You can't compare two completely different movies and say "Oh this one looks better". That's STUPID.

Yeah ok, what ever you say there buddy.

I am going to ignore you since you can not be made to see the light and truth.

Keep dreaming. The marketing hype regarding a 3-layer HD-DVD extension will just remain pure hype. It won't become a standard, old players and recorders won't be able to use it. They won't manufacture a 3-layer media up to the point to have it at a price equal to BD 50GB ones ($20 or less).

Well that's where you're just plain wrong.

The triple layer 51gb disc (along with the 17gb per layer technology) has been formally submitted to the DVD Forum for approval & certification.
It happened some weeks ago actually.

Triple layer was part of the original HD DVD spec, actually.
So again you have no real grounds for claiming it can't be used on gen 1 players beyond your own predicatable little 'wants'.

You can see this in the gen 1 HD DVD drives (which were NEC HR1100A's) here -
http://www.cloetens.be/custom/home/hd_dvd.pdf .

You haven't a clue how much they'll charge for the TL disc, you're just howling your usual ill-informed and ignorant BS.

HD-DVD just keeps looking better and better. Blo-Ray keeps looking worse and worse. Rootkit 2 anyone?

No thanks, Sony can keep their rootkits for themselves... and their overpriced BluRay- and PS3-junk as well.

*waits for the resident Sony-troll Davey to appear so we all have something to laugh at his spin*

HD-DVD is a dead duck. It's a standard owned and wanted by DVD-Forum, Toshiba and Microsoft to make a fool of customers. 15/30GB it's really nothing for HDTV content.

Yep, and they are still working on 1080p/24.

My PS3 does this TODAY...

Sure, not for HD-A1 oe HD-A2 who now how obsolete equipement it seems...

Seriously, why do people Trust Microsoft and Toshiba alliance? (Sorry HD-DVD alliance)

No Dave, they're not "working on 1080p/24" it's coming on the next firmware.

Looks like someone got a new sock-puppet troll with,

HD-DVD Forum Founding members:

# Hitachi, Ltd.
# Matsus***a Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.
# Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
# Pioneer Electronic Corporation
# Royal Philips Electronics N.V.
# Sony Corporation
# Thomson
# Time Warner Inc.
# Toshiba Corporation
# Victor Company of Japan, Ltd

It currently has 230 members altogether, it's not Toshiba and Microsoft. Try doing a little research in the future before posting. That way you might avoid sounding like a complete tool.

How is this any better/worse than Blu-Ray, owned and wanted by Sony?

Why would you trust a company continually spewing out proprietary formats in an attempt to corner the market to themselves?

Especially a company with a track-record of illegally planting trojans in your computer with that criminal 'root kit' fiasco?

Cos lets be honest, people have been convicted and sent to jail for the exact same kind of thing Sony got away with then.

......and lets hear exactly how the HD A-1 & HD A-2 are now "obsolete"?
Come on Dave, I'm looking forward to this one......or will you run away again?

Because he worships Sony (and he's a hypocrite).

Nice to hear the PS3 actually does something. Still an overpriced doorstop though, sorry.

I think Hocus pretty much covered it. Toshiba has given no one a reason not to trust them. Sony has given everyone MANY reasons not to trust them.

"My PS3 does this TODAY..."

Too bad you can't play any decent games on it. I am glad to hear you are getting at least some use out of that overpriced paper weight.

Yeah, sure.. Toshiba and Microsoft are saviour of humanity.. uh ? Pathetic.

Seriously you are beginning to bore the hell out of me.

Because it's a fact that 50GB it's better than 30GB. And you can whine as much as you want but there's no way you could change this simple fact.
Insulting others and acting childish won't make HD-DVD discs any better nor bigger.

50 gig is not the answer either about ten times that is needed for true HD. 20 gig is nothing when you are talking about hundreds of gigs needed so both are far from close to HD reality.

Funny how reviews say they look the same on newer releases.

Sorry, your plain wrong. It was introduced about a month back on FW 1.80.

Of course, I don't really know this, as that idiot Hollywood thinsk I don't acutally have a PS3..

Did I say MS? Do you have trouble reading? Did I say anything about them being the "saviour of humanity?" Now not only are the Sony cheerleaders idiots, but they can't read either.

How dare you bring facts and logic into the conversation SGD! lol

Another strawman argument, just ignore him. He's just another Sony zealot that will lie and say anything to make himself appear to be right. Unless of course he wants to reply to what you actually said and tell us what Toshiba has done that was so bad. He can't obviously, so he'll either run away or start spouting BS again.

We're all impressed that you know how to count, but 50GB is no better than 30GB when it comes to movies. If someone came out with a 200GB disc it wouldn't look any better either. 30GB is more than enough for movies so size is irrelevant. It comes down to paying much higher prices for Blu-Ray and supporting a scumbag company like Sony. Yeah I really want the company that owns a huge portion of the movie studios to control the format as well. You Sony loving idiots can't see that though. Enjoy your BD+ DRM and lack of managed copy, bending over for Sony must really be great for you guys.

Me too, that's why him and all of his usernames on permanent ignore.

Well said Ds. p.s. They are all Davey.

Toshiba , DVD-Forum, Microsoft are the ones that designed the HD-DVD standard to be so limited to only 15/30GB to save on R&D costs. They didn't care to give customers the best for the buck, they just wanted customers bucks. They didn't want to create a format for the future but just a way to rip customers off. The surely could have achieved even more space than Sony on Blu-Ray, the fact is that they didn't want to spend on R&D properly. And that's ripping customers off.

20GB is nothing ? 50GB is not the answer ? What are you talking about ?
With 50GB you can have a long movie in H.264 AVC 1080p muxed at the maximum allowed bitrate on both video and audio.

Size isn't everything.

Where is the proof that having more space on a blu ray will make the experience better? Just because there is more space on a disk doesn't necessarily make it better. Bands make cds that have an hour of music on it but a lot of the time there's only really 30 good minutes or less.

Actually Nec and Toshiba designed hd-dvd. Microsoft is only backing the format, my guess would be the whole issue with the rootkit from sony.

What are you arguing against? He stated that at least the PS3 is good for something, the movies.

Then the other guy said no dave the 1080p/24 is coming in the next firmware update which was the answer to Dave's previous attack that they (hd-dvd) were working on it.

The firmware update he is speaking of is for hd-dvd.

You just argue for the sake of arguing now, huh?

If you want to have true hd 50 gig is way to small of storage space. You make it sound like Sony is making the real HD when it isn't even close. Maybe some day they will use their space for other things then DRM, rootkits, and all other sorts of over head space wasting crap. Once we have disks that can store hundreds of gigs we'll see what HD really has to offer.

Not if you use that space for crap that SOny adds.

Cool you got an upgrade for movies so the grey blacks will remain grey black and reds will still look pale. Glad to hear they fixed that part of you blo-ray player, oh yeah they didn't and most likely can't. I'll take my HD DVD with the vibrant accurate colors.

"Sorry, your plain wrong. It was introduced about a month back on FW 1.80."

- Does being an idiot come easily to you or do you have to work hard to end up so stupid?

If you read what was said properly you'd see that Dave was crowing that the PS3 already had 1080p/24 & that they were still "working" on 1080p/24 for the Toshiba.

I simply stated the truth that 1080p/24 was no longer a case of being "worked" on at all and that it has already been announced as part of the coming next firmware for the Toshiba HD DVD players.

Reached the same page yet?

51gb triple layer HD DVD has now been formally submitted to the DVD Forum for certification.

You don't do that unless you're sure it'll go through.

It'll be interesting to see the BD shills whining about how being the smaller size doesn't matter then,

More space for $ony to add in the BS DRM is what I see. 30GB is big enough to handle a 1080p movie with ease. Also they are coming out with a triple layer disc that will bring it up to 51GB.

No, it was designed that way because adding more capacity would make the discs more fragile and the production much more expensive for the consumer. See Blu-Ray. Also Micrsoft had nothing to do with designing it. Learn about the technology before bashing it and throwing hissy fit about ripping people off, because if anyone is ripping people off it's Sony. Using the PS3 as a trojan horse and then charging a fortune for it, yeah that was consumer friendly. How are those PS3 sales going by the way, Dave?

Proof ? What proof ? It's the basis of digital coding/compression. Being it lossy or lossless, if you got more space you can have the data less compressed = higher quality (or less time needed to decode it if lossless compressed).
It's the basis of signals theory. You obviously don't know what you are talking about if you believe that a more compressed stream could ever give you better quality.

50GB it's almost twice 30GB .. so what ? Why should people waste money on a format with half the space ?

Latz! : you really don't know what you are talking about. Claiming that uncompressed or less compressed/higher bitrate streams won't increase quality just shows that you have no clue at all.

Because you are so wrapped up in your Sony whirlwind you didn't read it very well. The article is dedicated to adding extras, now if both formats are using the same compression and the same formats how is it blu-ray and hd-dvd don't differ in quality except some state the sound is better on hd-dvd.
More space would allow you to have it less compressed, the problem here is blu-ray isnt doing that yet, 48% of their discs are 25 Gb and 52% are 50 Gb.

PLus its a moot point with space as hd-dvd has now submitted for a 51gb disk.

Plus these additions for the web-enabled content is a free firmware upgrade for existing hd-dvd players.

Unlike blu-ray who's new format will not work with older blu-ray players plus requires the user to purchase an additional license when the 16 month one expires.

I don't see how anyone can see blu ray as a good thing unless you like being treated like a thief, granted Hd-dvd has some protection as well but not nearly so restrictive.

Because for movies 30GB is more than enough, because they don't have to deal with Sony or be tied down with a draconian DRM scheme, because HD-DVD players are less expensive, the discs are more durable, and mostly because they don't have to be associated with annoying people like you.

Learn how to read Dave, what we are claiming is that it doesn't matter. 30GB is more than enough for full HD, using a higher bit rate is not going to result in any real noticable difference and Blu-Ray movies aren't using higher bit rates anyway. Take your strawman arguments and your shilling and give it a rest, no one is buying your crap.

.....and if it ever turns out not to be there's always the 17gb per layer to a max of 51gb triple layer available.

(51gb has now been formally submitted to the DVD Forum......I must say I can't wait to see all the 'biggest storage is best' types begin to back HD DVD when it comes out.
Yeah right)

That's not true. Casinò Royale MPEG-4 H.264 AVC 1080p has a bitrate on Blu-Ray that's just too high to fit on a HD-DVD disc. It's over 30Mbps on average...that means that's more than 31GB...

Yeah, sure.. then that's the reason why HD-DVD is not selling at all. Only fanatics like you are buying them along with the nonsense that "30GB is enough" ... enough for what ? Whoever watches a movie at an higher bitrate encoded with the same codec would see that more the space and better the quality, it's just a fact and basic signals theory. And many more higher bitrate Blu-Ray H.264 titles are going to be released in the next future.

I'm not your lover Dave dude.. and no, 30GB is not enough at all, surely not for 1080p. If you are blind and/or can't see the obvious quality difference then that doesn't matter, coding standards have been designed on averages of human perceptions, the fact that yours is lower than average doesn't matter and doesn't mean that no one would notice the obvious quality difference.

That's hilarious, DaveBG calling other people fanatics. The way you've been foaming at the mouth for the past few days trying to sell us Blu-Ray I'd be careful who I called a fanatic. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with all your shilling but it is amusing at least.

You never give up do you Dave.

OUCH!!! Bet you don't get a reply to that one. If you do it will be filled with BS because there is no way he is disputing that one with facts.

Post your source for this claim, and then post a source confirming that it actually looks any better (if your original claim was even true).

What an idiot. You skipped over most of his post. Why is that? Didn't have a reply because you know he is right?

"that means that's more than 31GB..."
Guess you had trouble reading that they are bring the capacity up to 51GB. It's ok. You will fit right in with all the other Sony Cheerleaders.

I would rather he didn't. I don't really want to see a picture of his ass. Because it is likely that is where it came from.

"and no, 30GB is not enough at all, surely not for 1080p."

What a dumb ass. Guess those 1080p movies on HD-DVD that look as good or better than Blo-Ray fit on there by magic?

He'll post some BS blo-ray shill fangirl site making bs claims and say its gospel.

amen!!!!

You should try reading some basic video coding books to grasp the logic behind it. You and the others insulting me here really don't know what you are talking about. Your childish and rude acting is so lame, really pathetic.

The source is quite simple, it's called signals theory, it's called video and audio coding, it's called perceptive coding. These are the basic fields telling you that lower the compression(higher bitrate)=higher the quality

They just can't look as good or better if the Blu-Ray version is on a 50GB disc. The HD-DVD has a lower bitrate for sure, on a disc there is more than the single movie.. menus with their sounds, trailers and so on all occupy quite some space and so HD-DVD 30GB could get a 20-25GB available for the main movie.. while at the very least on a Blu-Ray 50GB disc the movie is encoded at an higher average bitrate with the same codec that it would occupy 30GB+ by itself, at least.

Ok Dave, what you say is gospel.

Again, since they are NOT using that space for better video quality, what is the extra space being used for?

everyone understands more space SHOULD enable the quality to be better, but ONCE AGAIN, since there is NO difference in quality between the two except again the sound by some say is better on hd-dvd.

What is the extra space being used for?

What did I tell yah. Lots of replies above. Guess he "accidentally" missed this one.

Rootkit 2.

"They just can't look as good or better if the Blu-Ray version is on a 50GB disc."

I know this is hard for your pea brain little Sony clouded mind...But it can and it does on several occasions. Maybe if you had actually ever seen a HD format you would know this.

I bet you never bought nor watched a Blu-Ray disc, surely not the latest ones which are H.264 1080p 50GB.

That's what you claim but that's not the truth. 50GB H.264 1080p Blu-Ray movies use the available space for sure. Although the average bitrate could be even higher and it will surely be in future releases (like the Superbit ones on DVDs...expect new releases with higher bitrates over the standard ones--they got the space to do it).

Hey, little kid, how many times I have to tell you that I'm not your Dave lover, uh ?
Ask Betanews owners and they will tell you that I'm from a different country with a different IP from another ISP.
You are acting so childish, are you 5, perhaps ?

No, it can't look any better, a movie encoded by the same studio with the same codec at a lower bitrate on HD-DVD due to space constraints will never look better than the same encoded at an higher bitrate for Blu-Ray where there is more space.
Your perception doesn't count, you are claiming the opposite of the truth. If your fantasy makes you believe that you are watching more details where have been cut, keep wasting your money but don't spread this as fact because it's the opposite way that video and audio coding actually works.

You don't get it do you? You think it looks better but that's just your opinion, and your opinion isn't a fact. You're not the be all and end all of what looks better, your just a huge Sony shill of a nerd posting about your favorite format thinking you are converting people to your side or something. Please keep it up, I need the daily laughs. By the way is H.264 1080p 50GB the new Sony fanboy motto?

I wonder how much Sony is paying aredo to post on forums and shill their products? At least I used to wonder, but I've realized that even Sony wouldn't hire this nutcase. Having him spew lunacy like Sony is cracking their own DRM would be bad for the company.

You seem to be preoccupied with me being your lover, is there some deeper meaning to that we don't know about? I know no one else has mentioned it but you so maybe you have some issues to work out. Either way I'm sorry but I'm really not interested in you. You'll find someone though, someday. Maybe another Sony shill will marry you.

Anyway enough about your issues, I want to hear more about this great new format called Blu-ray and how it's going to make all our lives better. Perhaps you can do a little sales pitch for us? lmao

By the way, I know you aren't Dave. Can't you tell when someone is jerking you around? Guess not, lol. Besides, DaveGB is a lot smarter than you, and that's a scary thing. You're both raving Sony cheerleaders though, so I may as well keep calling you Dave. Same difference, you're just a little crazier.

You never answered my challenge. Proof that there is any NOTICABLE difference with the slightly higher bit rates. Until then you are just spouting opinionated bs. I'm also waiting for that list of Blu-Ray movies that actually use the extra space for a higher bit-rate. I'll wait while you go find them...I mean while you run away or change the subject.

Who says it gets coded in a lower bit-rate on HD-DVD? Proof? "No, it can't look any better" It can and it does on several occasions. The proof is in the pudding aredo. I have actually seen "both" formats.

"Besides, DaveGB is a lot smarter than you, and that's a scary thing."

That is exactly what keeps scaring the hell out of me.

What about the (still coming) movies on 25gb SL BD discs?

Again with missing the point, there is no proof that extra space was used for better video quality. When the two movies are compared side by side (the same movie not two different ones) there is NO difference.

That is speculation, there is no proof until you can show a side by side comparison of the same movie with the supposed use of these 50 gb discs BUT again its a moot point as hd-dvd has submitted approval for a 51 GB, so if thats the case and using your information HD-DVD has to be better because its a 1 Gb more then blu ray.

And how many of those are active?

Pioneer, Blu-Ray only
Matsus***a (Panasonic), Blu-Ray only
Sony, Blu-Ray only
Philips, Blu-Ray only

Out of all the founging memebers, many of them are only releasing Blu_Ray hardware... Not a good sign!!!

It's a fact that it looks better at an higher bitrate allowed by more available space.
You and the others here defending an inferior product like HD-DVD are so childish and clueless, you don't know what you are talking about, really.

I would like to work for Sony but I don't, unfortunately for me.
I'm just stating facts about signals theory, video and audio coding.. you can like it or not but I'm not spreading lies and ignorance like you and others do here. less space = less quality due to forced lower bitrates, that's so simple and you can't change that. You can whine as much as you won't but it won't give HD-DVD any more available space. And the 3-layer extension is a flop already.

Proof is in the signals theory, audio and video coding basics. The basics you and others here demonstrated to completely lack. But you lack logic as well since you are trying to sell the HD-DVD thing as a "smaller is better" thing.. which is just deadly wrong.
Less space = lower bitrates. Period. The whine as much as you want but there is no way you can change that. And both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs have fixed codec formats (MPEG-2,VC-1,H.264) so there is no way you could get a movie encoded in the upcoming H.265 for example to achieve better results than H.264 at a lower bitrate.

Actually, no we have agreed but you keep going on these tirades and have yet to show proof that the extra space is being used for making the video have better quality.

A side by side comparison of the two formats using the same movie show only one difference: that the sound on hd-dvd appears to be better.

Yah we don't know what we're talking about. We go by looking at the actual products instead of going by what we read on the internet. /sarcasm off

FACT: You can not tell the difference between the 2.(Except whenever Blo-Ray is using their crappy old compression technology.) Actually sometimes HD-DVD has better looking blacks than Blo-Ray. So if the Blo-Ray drives are using a higher bitrate it isn't going to matter because you can't tell the difference.

Are we in denial aredo? As has already been said it has already been submitted to the DVD forum. So where is your basis that the 3-layer is a flop? O thats right. You don't have one. DENIAL!