IBM Revives 'Lotus Symphony,' Supports ODF Format

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

September 18, 2007, 6:43 PM

In a clever marketing move that had some of us fooled, IBM revealed today it was doing much more than beginning the process of rebuilding its own applications suite. In fact, Beta 1 of the new Lotus Symphony is already under way.

It's not so much a symphony, I wrote in a 1984 review of Lotus Symphony, but a cacophony. Lotus, I said, fails to make the value proposition about why users should invest nearly a thousand dollars in software whose components collectively sell for less than that, and whose best in class includes the best spreadsheet at that time, Lotus 1-2-3.

Well, 23 years later, IBM seems to have an intriguing answer to that problem. Lotus Symphony is once again an active brand, the product of IBM having successfully fooled everyone into thinking it was just now developing, or beginning to develop, a new applications suite in cooperation with Sun Microsystems. That's extremely clever marketing, especially coming from IBM. In fact, the project is quite a ways along, having entered the public Beta 1 phase today.

The new Symphony will incorporate much of the internal engine of OpenOffice (principally developed under the guidance of Sun), along with its support of the OpenDocument Format. As such, it will be offered under a public license, although whether that license is the GPL or another public license will soon be determined.

At first glance, it's obvious that Symphony's appeal is that it tries not to be revolutionary. In fact, it clearly makes a play for the customer Microsoft may have abandoned in its shift to the completely overhauled front-end model of Office 2007. It maintains an old, familiar menu bar with function arrangements that seem logical, and a right-side palette that presents the active properties of whatever object is beneath the cursor or cell pointer.

Screenshot from an early beta of Lotus Symphony Documents
IBM may be trying to resurrect an old brand name, but if we can be allowed a snap judgment of our own, it hasn't dug much deeper into Lotus' legacy beyond that point. It's clear that "Symphony Documents" bears no architectural similarity, intended or otherwise, with Ami Pro; and "Symphony Spreadsheets" (which sounds at first like an old Walt Disney animated short) misses the opportunity to remind even one or two users of the heritage of 1-2-3, which in an earlier time formed the axis around which nearly all applications software revolved.

That said, IBM doesn't appear to be making a play for the corporate IT decision maker here - the person who may already be committed to purchasing multi-seat licenses for Office. Its marketing approach is geared toward the individual user - moreover, to the person who may be frustrated with the thought of buying something expensive, and learning to use something counter-intuitive and uninspiring.

If IBM can achieve a higher degree of reliability than Sun has managed, it may have an opportunity to clinch a respectable segment of the office applications market. Think Firefox for a moment - remember how an open-source project could make a value proposition that played into Microsoft's weakness, with the fact that even its mass of users aren't particularly enamored with the manufacturer.

Sun hasn't been able to crack the applications market the same way, among other reasons, because it can't sell businesses on the idea of OpenOffice use as a skill that it can shop for when advertising their open job positions. Microsoft Office is entrenched because not only do customers depend on its support base, its support base depends on them.

But there still may be a few disenchanted customers who may yet be shaken, and for them the message from IBM is, come home to something a bit more familiar, less daunting, and more direct and to the point. Even if IBM cracks a few percentage points with this approach, there will be some who would call that a success.

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By kirkdickinson

edited Jan 3, 2008 - 10:44 PM

I was excited to try it as I still use Lotus Word Pro and it was supposed to be able to import those files.

I was highly disappointed. It is slow, can't open many of my LWP files and generally is a giant step backwards compared to the functionality of Lotus Word Pro, which came out more than a decade ago.

Kirk

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 2:19 PM

IBM Lotus Symphony beta 1 can't even open RTF files created in Wordpad.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 5:26 PM

Why do you lie?

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 10:26 AM

OpenOffice and this new Lotus are slow because they use a lot of Java.
Microsoft Office is fast because they are smart enough not to eat that dot net dogfood.

What's that, you want speed and portability?
You need koffice. I can startup kword in 3 seconds, and save to ODF by default.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 5:28 PM

And don't discount the Windows factor, Scotch. On my GNU/Linux distro, OpenOffice opens in less than a second.

Score: 0

By ascheinberg

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 2:04 PM

Sorry Scotch, but OpenOffice.org is not written in Java.

There are java components, but you can disable them entirely. It's not slow because of Java, it's slow for lots of other reasons, most of which have nothing to do with the programming language used.

Score: 0

By AlainF

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 11:08 AM

For now, it's only Linux KDE. Since Koffice 2.0 is suppose to be ported to Windows and Mac, will have to wait and see if it's a viable product. But as of now, you need the shell KDE 4.0 (beta) to be able to run it in Windows. Sound complicated to be a viable product.

Score: 0

By portablenuke

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 9:40 AM

This looks nice. I'll have to try it and see if I can use it to replace the OpenOffice. OO is ok, but it's nowhere near the level MS Office is.

* Supported Linux platforms: SLED 10, RHEL 5, Redhat5
* 900MB disk space minimum
* 1GB RAM memory minimum

It doesn't support Ubuntu, and it's kind of heavy. 1 gig of RAM minimum? What is making this thing so heavy?

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 5:29 PM

These are installation space requirements, not installed footprint sizes.

Score: 0

By yokozuna

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 11:04 AM

After reviewing the non IBM license part of the Symphony license agreement, I start to think that the suite is based on the older version of Oo.o. The agreement stats OOo. 1.1 and no v.2.x. Maybe it is a coincidence (mistake??). Or maybe not.

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 10:11 AM

Well, it would be well to keep in mind that it is a "Beta 1," so much may change prior to a final release.

Score: 0

By AlainF

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 9:13 AM

Well what are they thinking. They have a suite with Smartsuite, that is still, very good. There is feature in WordPro that are not present in any other suite available that is great. Like the tab division within the same document. Organizer witch is amazing for a product that old.

I install Symphony. The UI is interesting. It a good change compared to the ugly UI of OOO. Tried to open WordPro and 123 files. It did import, but with to many errors. You still have a better import if you save it in .doc or .xls and then reopen it in Symphony.

IBM have no clue about customer support. Why and Why havent they opensource Smartsuite?

Score: 0

By AlainF

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 9:56 AM

I will add...
I'm a Smartsuite user. We are using it daily in my company, WordPro, 123 and Organizer. I'm looking to replace Organizer with an opensource solution, probably SugarCRM. WordPro is still very good. 123 is missing feature of Excel that is starting to be important.
So the question, why would I use Symphony? They is no logical reason to is it.
1) It can't properly impot .lwp and .123 files.
2) It's much slower that OO.
3) Missing what I like about SmartSuite.
4) IBM have a very slow evolution rate
5) IBM doesn't care about small company.
6) IBM as a tendency to leave there client with no support.

Score: 0

By KSzostek

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 9:06 AM

Sucked back when it will suck now.

IBM had a chance before and abandoned it's users.

IBM is so far behind. I had to check it out, I had to laugh out loud. Start up slow thats an understatement. Features what a joke.

If you use it you deserve it.zenarcher you have MS 2003 and you use open office, I also have to laugh at you WOW!

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 8:25 AM

Unlike many of the detractors here, I'm sure, I've downloaded and installed IBM's new office suite this morning and it looks and acts pretty nice, save for being a bit slow to load. But then, I'm not in that big of a hurry, anyway. I have only used OpenOffice for nearly three years, although I have the MS Office 2003 disk. Don't use it...Don't need it.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 7:32 AM

The Lotus brand survived for a long time in a lot of places, but as Microsoft Office improved more and more, SmartSuite died a little more until it vanished.

Only Corel WordPerfect Suite survives aside from OpenOffice, and neither of them is a viable alternative to Microsoft Office at this point in time.

You will never convince me that it makes good business sense to standardize on a product simply because it supports a single file format like ODF. Especially not when the rest of the product is years behind the competition in feature sets and UI design.

Granted, I hope IBM is able to bring something truly worthwhile back to life, they certainly have the resources to do it. But I'm not convinced yet that they'll be successful.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 8:17 AM

"You will never convince me that it makes good business sense to standardize on a product simply because it supports a single file format like ODF."

LOL. Spoken like a true M$ drone. Let's see, rather than be locked into a single vendor, ODF gives you an open format which anyone can implement royalty and patent free. You can have competition to drive down the costs and increase the value of your productivity suite.

"Especially not when the rest of the product is years behind the competition in feature sets and UI design."

I use Open Office and find it includes more than 100% of the features i need. What features are lacking? M$ totally changed the UI in the newest bloated office requiring a very expensive retraining across the board.

The real reason businesses are hesitant to change is they are so deeply locked into the proprietary M$ world, it would be extremely expensive to move out. They are a victim of their own doing...have fun paying M$ forever to have access to your corporate data.

For any new company starting out, it makes no sense, what so ever, to be locked into the: very expensive, proprietary, bloat-ware that is M$ Office and Windows.

Score: 0

By portablenuke

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 9:55 AM

'LOL. Spoken like a true M$ drone. Let's see, rather than be locked into a single vendor, ODF gives you an open format which anyone can implement royalty and patent free. You can have competition to drive down the costs and increase the value of your productivity suite."

Are you creating you're own office suite?
If not then being able to implement the standard royalty free doesn't matter.

"I use Open Office and find it includes more than 100% of the features i need. What features are lacking? M$ totally changed the UI in the newest bloated office requiring a very expensive retraining across the board."

OO is decent, and it works for what I need it to do, simple document creation on Linux with MS Office XP/2003 compatibility. It's not a revelation. Office 2007 is a revelation. Say what you want, but the Ribbon interface is fantastic. It makes me wonder how I've survived without. There are other features such as styles that are very handy too.

Score: 0

By renx99

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 7:39 PM

"There are other features such as styles that are very handy too. "

Styles have been around for a lot longer than Office 2007... I've been using them for years.

Don't confuse new presentation for innovation. All the things on the 'ribbon' have been there all along.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 11:18 AM

"Office 2007 is a revelation"

LMAO! That is one of the funniest things i have read in a long time. IMO, Office 2007 is horrible product that offers nothing over prior versions except a new non-intuitive interface that requires people to re-learn how to do everything.

They needed something to try and justify the huge cost of moving to the newer version.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 11:43 AM

Just because you'd rather use an interface from the 1990's than learn something new doesn't make it any less fantastic.

It's called technology. Continual Learning Curves are required. Unless you prefer to live with the cave men...

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 12:55 PM

I would hardly call it "better". I prefer the better interface, which is certainly not that "ribbon" nonsense.

they needed to do something to get people to upgrade. It was getting harder and harder to resell the same product over and over when alls they did was add bloat that very few needed.

So, they simply changed the interface to make it look different to fool people into upgrading.

Score: 0

By billweh

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 9:19 AM

The biggest issue with the file formats is that the WORLD (yes, I mean just about everyone) has standardized on the MS Office format. Regardless of whether you personally like that or not, that's the fact of the matter.

When I have to communicate with another user at a partnering company or with a client, I know with almost 100% certainty that they will be using a variant of Office and will be able to open my document and it will look exactly the same.

ODF has not shown that yet as there is really only one app (that I know of) that supports it currently (Open Office - and it's variants).

The move out of the MS format is not as locked as you think. When DOS was king, the WordPerfect format was pretty much the defacto standard. When MS released Word for Windows - it HAD to support that format and make sure that the documents came in as close to 100% the same - otherwise they were dead in the water and new it. As it was - the WW had a new file format that supported things even the DOS version didn't (OLE), and it slowly took over.

So if ODF wants to be the "new kid on the block" it will have to support the current (meaning Office 2007) formats and be able to replicate their formatting exactly (meaning on display and in print).

Office 2007 has a ton of formatting features that Open Office doesn't have, so unless they decide to implement that before MS comes out with Office 2009 with even more bells and whistles - they will unfortunately always be a second class product. Just as Corel Office has become now.

For a company starting out... Let's see, I want my business to take off but I'm not going to support anything stupid like 99.9% of every other business out there by using Office. That will make me popular. [EXCUSE ME?]

Score: 0

By pitdingo

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 11:22 AM

So my businesses internal document format affects outside companies how?

If i need to send out documentation, i would much rather send PDF or maybe even ODF than an M$ Office format. PDF and ODF readers are freely available for every platform out there.

How do i know my Office version matches yours? I could send you an incompatible Office version. then what?

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 11:42 AM

If you have problems with file compatibility in Microsoft Office, it is genuinely because you're an idiot and didn't even try.

Who cares if the versions match? Office 2007 can recognize all other Office versions, and there's a free, easy to use solution for prior versions to READ AND WRITE 2007 formats. As long as 2007 can write to PDF format and ODF format, that will suffice for most people.

The *only* legitimate benefit to OOo over Office is the price. Free is great, but if the experience using it for average users is archaic, it doesn't matter.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 5:37 PM

[goodth...]: The *only* legitimate benefit to OOo over Office is the price. Free is great, but if the experience using it for average users is archaic, it doesn't matter.
________________________________________________
You truly have not been paying attention in the tech world over the past two years, have you? It's about the format, not the application. Repeat that three times! I could care less whether I use OpenOffice, KDE, Lotus Symphony, TextMaker, Google Docs, Zoho, or whatever — as long as its supports the universal, ISO certified ODF format. OpenOffice opens binary .doc/xls files with great precision, except where Microsoft purposefully horks up a DLL. My god, with MS Office, your freaking output is dependent on your printer settings!

So it's real easy to exchange a Microsoft Office document and it look completely different on two machines. You may enjoy that horsehockey, but I don't have time for such games.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 1:03 PM

I would hardly call the interface in OO archaic since it is way better than that "ribbon" crap they use to try and fool people into paying for Office for the fourth or fifth time.

And yes, Open Office is _free_, has a better interface, can open the proprietary M$ formats (although not perfectly as we are dealing with a: closed, non-standard, proprietary, patent encumbered, file format), save to PDF, and uses the ISO standard ODF natively.

Score: 0

By gebiv

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 6:19 AM

Just because they call it "Lotus" doesn't make it so. This new word processor couldn't shine Ami's shoes.

It's a shame IBM continues to abuse the brand.

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 11:00 AM

I would love to find a copy of Ami Pro 3.x and get it running on XP/Vista. That is my favorite program of all time. Know where I can get it?

Score: 0

By tmservo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 1:31 AM

Ah, I still miss Lotus 1-2-3

./

what a combo from the old days :)

Score: 0

By yokozuna

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 1:50 AM

You know what is the best what IBM can do for OpenOffice (and the derivates of the suite)? Open the sources of Lotus Organizer and add the product to the suite. OpenOffice lacks PIM and I think that Lotus Organizer does not give any profit to the company anymore. On the other hand I think that Lotus/IBM Organizer is still one of the best, most intuitive PIMs to date. It need some update but the core and the whole concept is really OK.

PS I see that the beta of the suite is already published here: http://symphony.lotus.co...ony/product_ss_wpe.jspa What I like most is tabbed creating/editing/browsing documents. You do not have to open many instances of Writer but just use it similar to Opera. It is really convenient if you have to compare documents or work with many documents simultaneously. Nice!

Score: 0

By BradO

edited Sep 25, 2007 - 8:55 PM

I wish they would come out with an updated Lotus Organizer, but they'll probably take the cheap easy way out with a clone of Outlook. Just what we need, another boring PIM.
Organizer needed to be updated and needed some improvements to be sure, but it was still the best looking and most intuitive PIM. I was sorry to see it ignored over the past several years.
A longtime Organizer user

Score: 0

By Reverb

posted Sep 18, 2007 - 10:59 PM

Visicalc Rules!!!

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 7:20 AM

No, but O'Doyle does! :)

Score: 0

By Reverb

posted Sep 18, 2007 - 10:45 PM

!!!!
Where are my DOS 5 Diskettes!?! Honey did you throw out my old DOS diskettes and my PCjr that was in the attic?!? And where is my Hayes V-series 9600? Honey!!!!

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Sep 18, 2007 - 8:09 PM

Oh I wish this was really a Lotus product and not IBM trying to ride a once proud name. All the claims IBM made during the merger in 1998ish have proven to not be true. Does this sound familiar: "We will allow Lotus to remain the creative entity they are, and give them access to our deep pockets and channel network." (paraphrasing, of course.)

Score: 0

By DraconPern

posted Sep 18, 2007 - 7:58 PM

Ah, so it's the same OOo bloat with the Lotus brand that people hate? I don't see the cleverness in this..

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 7:35 AM

They would stand a better chance if they actually revived Lotus SmartSuite, redesigned the UI, and got the feature set up to speed.

OpenOffice is stuck in the 1990's and only offers ODF as a desirable feature.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 8:19 AM

You forgot....it offers a free productivity suite that does everything which 95% of people need from an Office Suite.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 11:38 AM

Yes, and I can *do* anything I want on a Mac too... doesn't change the fact that the WAY you do things is archaic.

I can *do* anything I want on Linux or Unix too. It still doesn't change the fact that *most* consumers (not the techy geeks like you or me) are able to use Windows and Office more efficiently than other products, even despite the "drastic learning curve" that morons like you whine about.

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 1:09 PM

LOL. The M$ drone brings Linux up eventhough this has nothing to do with Linux.

The new Office interface requires training to use. Why spend money on training for this when the interface was not the problem...the file format is.

Visit: http://www.openoffice.org to free yourself from the M$ tax. Why pay for the same product over and over again? i don't need clippy. I don't need some bloatware nonsense features

Give me a Word Processor, Spreadsheet, and Presentation builder.

Score: 0

By AlainF

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 1:29 PM

"..the interface was not the problem...É
Well the UI was a problem for me with MS Office and Oo.
Smartsuite UI, for me, is still better that anything available right now. The new look from IBM Symphony is a welcome change. Look a bit like Koffice.

I did read many thing regarding the ruban and change is good sometime.

I'm willing to pay the M$ if it's save time in production or improve what's available. The fee of the software is one thing but the production cost is also important.

And what's missing it Oo and Symphony is a PIM, like Lotus organizer or Outlook.

Score: 0

By zridling

edited Sep 18, 2007 - 11:58 PM

What wincement said! even if Scott's headline is misleading. The only thing this suite shares with the former is the name. IBM, Google, and Sun have office suites and online apps to share ODF files, but not for MS-OOXML crap. It's not about the software, it's about the format. More choices running ODF natively means more users, more ODF files, and fewer MS-OOXML kludge.

Lotus Symphony is built using Eclipse, another open source IDE, and it's pretty incredible. Open the Spreadsheets module and just check out the Layout menu. This is free? Holy crap. In most ways it's an implementation of OpenOffice, but much more polished, and with tabs everywhere. It's fully integrated, so whether you're opening a presentation, document, or spreadsheet, it's all in the same window. The tabs, menus, and taskbar changes according to document type. Here's a screenshot — looks cool.

Remember when Microsoft "welcomed choice among multiple formats," and as Rob Weir notes, so far all it gave us in Office 2007 was "a new Microsoft XML format (MS-OOXML), an updated Microsoft binary format, and a different new Microsoft binary format for Excel. Now that's choice! But what about other, standard formats? ODF support is available only as a separate download, in their ODF Add-in for Word. However, this tool is very poorly integrated into the Office user interface, making it almost impossible to use for real work."

Download Symphony here! (Registration required and it's a 134M file.)

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

edited Sep 19, 2007 - 7:40 AM

Well at least that version looks 2002-ish rather than 1997-ish.

As for the ODF claim... I downloaded and installed the plugin without issue, and it works EXACTLY like any other file format. You can set it to be the default, and you can pick and choose it like it were any other type. I fail to see how that makes it "impossible to use for real work."

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 5:38 PM

Why do you lie?

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Sep 18, 2007 - 7:28 PM

Incredible. Now there are three free alternative Office suites competing with MS.

OpenOffice, StarOffice (via Google Pack), and Lotus Symphony.

I'm downloading now to see what it's like. I know one thing for sure: I've been waiting for tabs in these office suites for way too long...

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 7:37 AM

Corrections...

1. You forgot Corel WordPerfect Suite.

2. StarOffice is still around, but I've only seen ONE person in the last 10 years that uses it, and they changed to Microsoft when they realized SO doesn't work with anything.

3. Lotus Symphony is just a repackaging and rebranding of Open Office, so it doesn't count yet as a distinct product, IMO.

Score: 0

By spiked

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 8:39 AM

There are no editions of Corel WordPerfect Suite which are free or have ever been free. Only the new Corel WordPerfect Lightning is free, and it is hardly an office suite; Corel's own marketing promotes it as a replacement for Adobe Reader.

Corel WordPerfect Suite is only "free" if you get an OEM "preload" and even then it's only the word processing component which is free; the rest operates in trial (nag) mode.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Sep 19, 2007 - 11:37 AM

Duly noted. I missed that aspect of wincement's post.

Score: 0