It never ceases to amaze me that it's only when USAToday publishes and 'expose' on the big, bad, evil government agencies, and what they've been doing, that the average citizen gets a burr up his or her butt. That active monitoring of US citizens has been going on since before we got on the Mayflower is beside the point.

One fellow I talked to actually believed that there are pencil-necked dorks crowding around some monitor engaging in massive voyeuristic fantasies.

And yet, for all the bluster, rage, fist-shaking, and Constitution-quoting, I have yet to hear of an actual feasible plan to counter the threats of malevolent individuals who would love to see the US nuked off of the map. Seems to me that the average citizen wants to have the cake and eat it, as well. "We got attacked! Go kill the bad guys! But don't spy on any of us! Ignore the entire US, even though that would be the primo place for the bad guys to hide out!"

Because, obviously, to allow the Government to spy on us would create an Orwellian state of tyranny and militaristic rule. Yes, yes, let the whole "You're just a Government fanboy" flames begin, I can verily hear the keys being slammed with righteous fury.

No, I'm not saying that domestic intelligence, surveillance and reconnaisance is right. But don't go throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either. And once again, fist-shakers, where are your viable solutions for keeping this country safe? By all means, if there is one, I am pragmatic enough to listen.

In the meantime, however, crying about it and cussing out Bush isn't at all doing anything to remedy the situation.

Let the flames begin.

So, people who don't want their communications monitored without cause are "fist-shakers." That's fine. But people throughout history shake their fists when they feel the need to point out an injustice. Would you rather people who are concerned with an issue just sit down and shut up? Pick any wrong that was ever righted, and you will find fist-shakers at the heart of the process that made the world a slightly better place. Wrongs such as slavery, segregation, and lack of voting rights were all attacked by frothing fist-shakers. I'd even wager the people who screamed "No taxation without representation!" were shaking their fists while they did it. Some of them went on to write the Constitution, and later the Bill of Rights containing the 4th Amendment. But you can't be bothered with that tripe. No, to you, rights are actually privileges, and freedoms are not freedoms but are actually gifts from whomever is tasked to keep us safe.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on activism; we know where we would be if people like you were in charge. Oh wait, that's right, people like you ARE in charge, and here we are in the middle of all this s***.

On the issue of privacy itself, you take no position:

"No, I'm not saying that domestic intelligence, surveillance and reconnaisance is right. But don't go throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either."

Thank you so much for that insight!

Nobody, after reading your post, could have any idea where you really stand or draw the line for privacy invasion. Yet, you demand that others be specific. You demand that others defend their positions while you take none. Perfect.

Perhaps you're just young and unsure of yourself, so you don't want to go out on a limb by taking an actual stand. That's understandable. But you need to learn to examine your own thoughts before attacking others'.

I'll help you start defining your position. Read the following statements and tell me which one you believe is true:

1. The government should have unfettered access to any and all domestic communications.
2. Government access to domestic communications should be fettered.

Pick #1 and the discussion is essentially over. #2 lets us continue our discovery of where you really stand. :)

You know were not gonna win, thats common sense, but people should start becoming more aware of there sourroundings. We are constantly being watched and tapped yet all we do is is sit around and yell at the TV. People are to scred of there own government now adays and it will only get worse with time.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I think we can see where this is headed. Multiple lawsuits crop up because of this crap... fine and dandy with me, the more the merrier. So, they lump them all together as one lawsuit. Now, considering the fact that they *JUST* dismissed a lawsuit under similar grounds, could there possibly be a pattern here that relates to the fact that the Justice Department, AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon declined commenting? Nooooo..... certainly not. After all the U.S. Government has always been open and honest with its people.

" ....it was reported that the agency worked with the telcos to tap directly into switches and monitor any traffic moving across the networks. This included e-mail, instant messages and even phone calls."

Gosh this sounds like a little more than JUST maintaining a database of phone calls placed.

Hang on to your knickers kids and watch it unfold.

FORK BUSH!

We don't want this @$$hole in the white house no more.

Go little 4th Amendment! You can do it! :)

For all you apologists out there, and you know who you are, the only difference between this and screening all snail mail that goes through the post office is the ease in which it's done. But you probably wouldn't mind that either, as long as it reduces your chances of being offed by a terrorist from .00007% to .0000004%. Good luck out there.